What is the new guidance on single sex spaces? | The UK Tonight with Matt Barbet

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[00:00:00]for single sex spaces and of course we know there are strongly held views uh on all sides uh not least within the Labour party I mean we've seen for example former Labour MP Rosie Duffield quitting the party over um in park here Starmer's stance on this um so there are strong views uh on all sides it is a nuanced debate um but we now we have this guidance which applies for a whole range of um bases, you know, everything from swimming pools to toilets, changing rooms, but also places like refuges uh and hospital wards. Um and the um prime minister spokesperson has said that this is about uh about clarity, which is so key, but also that trans people will be protected.

[00:00:49]>> Ali, some concerns are being expressed about what this could mean for trans people.

[00:00:55]>> I mean, yeah, that's right. Right. So, you know, I ended with the prime minister spokesperson there. And I think um that is what um trans campaigners are going to be saying this evening. We are just getting through all the details of this still. But look, I think the key point is this. This is what it says. And I think we can show you um in the guidance. A trans man might be excluded from the women only service if the service provider decides that because he presents as a man, other service users could reasonably object to his presence.

[00:01:24]and excluding him is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. So effectively that means um trans people would be excluded. I should say you know we have heard from the chair of the EHRC Marian Stevenson. She says um that she thinks the impact that that that impact that this would have on trans people needs to be taken into account and there could be for example a third space uh where trans people could go. Um, but I think one of the most interesting parts of the documents that we've seen today was actually the impact assessment where it listed some of the ways um that trans people might be affected. And I think we can show you that as well. I'll just read um some of it. So, it talks about the potential for double exclusion. It is possible that trans people could be barred from both the space aligned with their gender and the space aligned with their birth sex effectively leaving them with no service at all. It also talks about um alternative provision. Uh it says that while the code states it is unlikely to be proportionate to leave a trans person with no service, uh the lack of funding could mean that there is no third space. And it also talks about involuntary disclosure. um this may that this may force trans people to out themselves in public or professional settings. So that's the impact assessment prime minister spokesperson saying that this is about clarity. I should say that the EHRC actually did send this, we understand, um to the government quite a few months ago and there has been um plenty of speculation.

[00:03:02]The reason that this has taken so long is because um it has been watered down perhaps in some way by the government. I haven't confirmed that, but it does look like changes or tweaks at least have been made. There's been an ongoing conversation and it is perhaps uh no coincidence as we head into recess on a busy news day, this is the moment that they have decided to release uh what is a a thorny subject for the government.

[00:03:30]>> Thank you very much indeed. Uh in a moment we're hoping to speak to Jesso Thompson who's from the good law project about this. But first let's have a word with the chief executive of the charity Sex Matters Maya Forater who joins me now. Maya, thank you for taking the time. What do you think about this guidance?

[00:03:46]>> We think it's pretty good. We give it eight eight out of 10. It follows the law. It explains how uh service providers can provide single sex services, sports, uh associations in a range of different situations. And it also says how transgender people's rights are protected, which means where you have a separate sex facility, it's often helpful to have a a unisex option.

[00:04:13]And in most large buildings that already exists.

[00:04:16]>> Yeah, we'll get on to that in a second.

[00:04:17]I mean, the government says this is about the protection of people's rights.

[00:04:21]Do you think it succeeds in that way, protecting all people's rights?

[00:04:26]>> I I think it largely does. It's based on the Equality Act, which is law that's been around uh since 2010, and the Sex Discrimination Act has been around since 1975. It's really clear that when women go into a space where they're undressing, where they're vulnerable, where they expect privacy, that men shouldn't be in there. And men who identify as non-binary or trans women are still men. In most cases, it's very obvious that they're still men. But even if it's not obvious, um, women deserve privacy and dignity. And one of the most important things that this code does is it recognizes that. It makes it really clear. And so it means that when if if women have to go to court, like the nurse Sandy Peggy for example, they've had to explain why women expect privacy and dignity in single sex spaces, this code puts that into a statutory basis and says you don't have to um make this case every individual time. It's it's really obvious that single sex spaces should be single sex >> because and this is all based on that judgment last year that sex means biological sex. But what if someone who's been born female who is now presenting as male, they could then go into those female only spaces, couldn't they? But they would look to the women in there like a man.

[00:05:46]>> Well, the guidance the the the judgment and the guidance both deal with that.

[00:05:50]That that's the piece that you showed a little earlier. It said that a trans man, that's a woman who identifies as a man, if she is excluded from a women's only space, that is lawful because if somebody has taken a lot of effort to try and look like a man, it's not unreasonable for them to be excluded from a women's space in the same way that you know if >> where would they but where would they then go if they also cannot use a men only space like a men's toilet for example? Well, the unisex. I mean, lots of people identify as non-binary nowadays. Where should they go? They can use the unisex.

[00:06:29]>> So, do do you think there's enough in here about potential third spaces, unisex places?

[00:06:35]>> Um, yes. What it what the guidance says is that um it's where it's a proportionate means to a legitimate aim.

[00:06:42]So, that means um you know, in a larger building, you already have um accessible unisex options. in a very small building and historic pub or something, you might say, well, you know, we can't possibly um build that space, but in most buildings already, you have a unisex accessible option. So, there really is it's it's not a difficult dilemma. Uh the the guidance does say it may be legitimate to provide confirmation that they are the eligible sex. How would someone do that? Is that a case of carrying around their birth certificate?

[00:07:19]No. Um I mean the the most obvious way is just an honest answer to a straightforward question. I mean you there are lots of services where that are based on sex or based on age and you just expect people to follow the rules.

[00:07:35]Um >> but hang on but but trans people would say well I'm a man or I'm a woman when you would argue otherwise. If you can see or hear that somebody is male and they might have long hair, they might wear makeup, they might be wearing a dress, that's that's what a transwoman is. But it >> not necessarily not necessarily. Trans people talk about something called passibility. You could pass them on the street and you wouldn't know that they weren't born the way they present.

[00:08:05]>> Well, what the the Supreme Court looked at this and what it looked at was the Equality Act. The Equality Act protects trans people against discrimination at any stage in a transition process, which is a personal process. It doesn't have to involve seeing a doctor. It doesn't have to involve surgery. It doesn't have to involve taking hormones. So, most people in that category, will not pass.

[00:08:28]And even if you do have medical treatment, most people, particularly male who've been through male puberty, will not pass as female. They look like trans women. And what you need to do as a service provider is provide three options in that case. Um not try to sort of draw the line and say well you pass and you don't pass. That that's not treating people with dignity and and um respect. What's treating people with dignity and respect is saying here are the rules. We expect you to follow them.

[00:09:01]>> Maya for the charity sex matters. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Uh joining me now is uh Jessa Thompson who's from the uh the trans rights lead at the good law project. Jess, thanks for joining us. I'm going to put you broadly the same questions I asked Maya just then. The first one is what do you think of this guidance?

[00:09:21]>> Well, it's good to see that some of the absolute worst elements of the guidance have gone. the stuff that suggested that um service providers should ask for people's birth certificates to check whether they could use a service for example those bits have been stripped away it's now clear that associations for example so think people like girl guides and the WI have had to change their policies um it's said now pretty explicitly that organizations can operate on the basis of having multiple protected characteristics so you can have an organization that's for people whose biological sex is female female and also for trans people. So, those are some really good improvements, but the rest of it is incredibly concerning um and really puts the UK in a very scary and dangerous position in terms of where we are internationally um to the extent that people at the UN and the Council of Europe are sort of decrying us as going backwards on LGBT plus rights a very alarming rate. And that's because what's what's some of this guidance, what some of it suggests would effectively put our treatment of trans people as as sort of more extreme than the most republican states in the US. Um, and I think trans people are rightly really worried about how this will be applied in practice.

[00:10:41]>> The government says this is about the protection of people's rights, all people. Do you think it achieves that?

[00:10:49]>> Not at all. So under the previous kind of approach and framework, it was still entirely possible, entirely legitimate to have a single sex women's service that excluded trans people, trans women, you could do that. Um so for example, if you had um a domestic violence service and you wanted to provide a group that was just for women whose biological sex was female, you could already do that under the previous code of practice.

[00:11:14]What this code of practice seems to suggest is that you're required to exclude trans people even if you don't want to. Um and that trans people rather than as you as you heard from uh from mayor just there, there are certain trans people who not only can be excluded from services for um the sex they they have acquired and identified with and transition to and might have lived as for decades, you know, people who have used women's toilets for decades, as you say, pass fully as women. um not only can they be excluded from those services, but they could be excluded for the services from the services for their biological sex as well. So, trans men being excluded from men's services and women's services.

[00:11:57]>> Yeah, we talked about which begs the next question which I I talked to mayor about about third spaces, things like unisex toilets seems like a pretty straightforward thing to do. A lot of places already have them and whatever someone's gender, no one seems to mind really about those kind of places. But what about taking those third spaces into other areas like refuges? Why not a third space refuge for example? Maybe they even exist already.

[00:12:23]>> So the problem with that um and I can say this as as a disabled person who on occasion uses a wheelchair is very often that these kind of theoretical accessible unisex places don't actually exist. They're not actually provided on the same basis. And very interestingly under international human rights law um under the European Convention on Human Rights and the Human Rights Act um it's really explicit that treating trans people as a third sex it describes it as placing them as in a intermediate zone where they're treated not quite as one sex or the other where they're not fully recognized as the sex that they have transitioned to is a violation of their human rights. It's a violation of their article 8 right to respect for private and family life.

[00:13:07]>> And I I think yeah I think we've ended up in a situation where you know if you are at the historic pub and you're a trans woman what toilet do you use? Um because for decades you've used the women's toilets and there's never been a problem. There has never been an issue in this country. But now we're going backwards.

[00:13:27]>> And this is the crux of the matter isn't it? is how the rights of trans people impact the rights of people who aren't trans, people who are, you know, they identify in the gender in which they were biologically born into. How do you strike that balance? Does there need to be some sort of a compromise somewhere?

[00:13:47]>> Well, that's kind of what I I was saying there. There already was there was already a mechanism by which you considered whether excluding trans people was proportionate whether it was a way of achieving a legitimate aim and that could be the protection and the rights of of women or people with religious beliefs who don't want to share opposite sex facilities. We already had a mechanism for doing that.

[00:14:11]But the whole point is it was a sensitive fact-based question, not a con like not a blanket ban that means even in those historic pubs, trans people are left with no toilets to use.

[00:14:23]>> Mayor gave it at the start eight out of 10. Just to finish, what would you give this guidance?

[00:14:29]>> Two.

[00:14:30]>> Thank you for your time.

[00:14:32]>> Thank you.

[00:14:35]Next, documents released today revealed that the late Queen pushed for the former Prince Andrew to be given a government job as a trade envoy. He held that role for more than a decade before resigning back in 2011 amid the scrutiny over his association with the late pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. Our deputy political editor Sam Coats has more on this. Now, what are the Andrew papers? 31 pages released by government today. they were forced to do it by a vote by MPs and it tells us quite a lot about how the appointment came about and just some of those things that might have rung alarm bells. Let's let's look at why it happened. I'm going to um what this is is a document between a top official and one of the most senior figures in the palace and it tells us look at this. I'm going to enlarge the key bit here. There it is. As you were just saying, it's the queen's wish that the Duke of Kent was uh succeeded uh in the role of envoy by the Duke of York. So there we have the confirmation. What you were just saying had been speculated for years that the late Queen Elizabeth uh pushed this role. She ro role. She thought it would fit well with the end of the Duke of York's active naval career. Maybe worried a little bit that he didn't have enough to do. And now here's an interesting insight. The queen is very keen that the Duke of York should take on a prominent role in the promotion of national interest. She wanted to raise the then Duke of York, Andrew Manbatton Windsor's profile. That was the whole idea of this role. So the queen was absolutely integral to all of that. But what do we learn uh from the various bits of documentation as part of this uh release file? Right now, this is another memo from 2000, height of the Blair years, between uh a Whiteall official and Buckingham Palace, and it describes meetings with uh particularly Captain Blair, who was Prince Andrew, as he then was a principal private secretary, his top official, and it's talking up through how the role might work. And it says things like the Duke himself likes traveling and there's quite a lot of individual preferences being passed on from the palace to Whiteall as they'll work out how he'll do the role. Um I asked what were the Duke's preferences for activity during his visits and a line that will haunt for the ages a preference for ballet rather than the theater. And it also added and I think this line will be scrutinized quite closely uh the uh Andrew Batton Windsor tended to prefer the more sophisticated countries particularly those uh in the lead on technology. So clearly uh some uh uh some countries he wanted to go to some he wanted to uh avoid. But here uh I think Kathy is for me one of the big red flags. It begins captain bless the top aid to Prince uh Andrew. Let me just go on to the next page because this is absolutely key. Let me make it even bigger. The Duke should not be offered golfing functions abroad. This was a private activity and if he took his clubs with him, he would not play in any public sense. Right. This is quite significant to me because what it is is one of the most senior palace officials just notifying that they that the Buckingham Palace is concerned of the potential for conflicts of interest using these trips funded by the taxpayer that are meant to promote business maybe for a bit of golf and that the Duke of York as he then was was going to take his golf clubs with him. and they just wanted informal memos to make everybody clear that this was a bad idea because they thought it was a potential conflict of interest. Uh as you say, there's uh there's a lot in here I think that uh people will uh pick over for a while. Um we've got another disclosure to come the other side of recess that takes us to the beginning of next month. Uh I think uh for Andrew Battton Winds all of this is just uncomfortable viewing.

[00:18:21]That is Sam Coats. I'll be speaking to the royal biographer Andrew Lowey who's written a book about uh the former Prince Andrew later on this hour about all this. Still to come though in the meantime on the UK tonight. We'll hear from the chancellor as she unveils what she calls her great British summer savings. Also ahead, we'll look at the latest migration figures. And Villa fans welcome back their Europa League champions to Birmingham in, as you can see, pretty huge numbers.

[00:20:02]are you?

[00:20:56]The Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, has announced what she called her Great British summer scheme. What is it? Well, it includes a temporary VAT cut on family days out and free bus travel for children in in England in the month of August. Our business correspondent, Paul Kelso, spoke to Rachel Reeves.

[00:21:13]Do you think you'll be delivering the next budget?

[00:21:15]>> Yes, I do. And I'll tell you why.

[00:21:17]Because in the almost two years I've been chancellor, I've got the economy growing, beating the forecasts with the fastest growing economy in the G7 in the first quarter of this year, defying the forecasts. Inflation, just yesterday, the numbers came out that inflation is down. The only G7 country where inflation fell last month, beating the forecasts. And we're tackling the cost of living. We've done that with £150 off energy bills. We've done that by freezing rail fairs and prescription charges. And I've done it again today with this package of measures to help businesses, to help motorists, to help with the supermarket shock and to help with the >> I'm sure all the people who want to be prime minister hear that loud and clear.

[00:21:53]To be clear, do you back the current prime minister to continue in his job?

[00:21:57]>> The prime minister is getting on with his job in being back and there is no vacancy. Do you back him to let's see what happens in the future. But Kam is the prime minister. He has chosen me to be his chancellor and I'm getting on with my job. Delivering for the country and delivering for our prime minister on his priorities which are growing the economy, tackling the cost of living crisis, getting immigration down and reducing NHS waiting list. All of which we are achieving and succeeding in doing.

[00:22:24]>> You've said nothing today about energy costs. You you've talked about the need to do something in uh future. But one of the reasons you said nothing is because I as I understand it, you don't believe that a huge borrowing spree as happened last time uh with the energy price guarantee works. Do you think the people who want to be Andy Bernham in particular understand that the UK is maxed out and that the public finances will not withstand the kind of policies he has in mind?

[00:22:49]>> Well, Andy has been really clear that he would stick to the fiscal rules that Labour Party set out in our manifesto and that I've delivered in government.

[00:22:57]And those fiscal rules say that we pay for day-to-day spending through tax receipts, but that we can subject to getting debt down invest in those things that will help grow our economy. And Andy, like Karma, like me are absolutely committed to those things. But if you look at the package of measures that I've set out today, they are affordable because we're closing a tax loophole.

[00:23:17]The foreign branch exemption, which means that uh multinational country companies can uh book losses overseas in the UK and therefore reduce their corporation tax here. That's not right.

[00:23:29]It's not fair. Businesses should pay their fair share of tax and we're using the revenues from that to help people with the cost of living.

[00:23:35]>> One more personal question. Yesterday you were heckled quite aggressively at a a petrol station. you clearly didn't think much of the bloke's manners and many people will agree with you that is no way to do that but the kind of anger that was there um does it surprise you do you understand it and I wonder if you think you've got any chance of changing someone like that's mind >> I'm not sure if I can change uh his mind I think his mind was pretty made up Paul uh but I think the majority of people in this country recognized that the Labor government had a tough job when we came in public finances were in a mess public services were in a mess and the economy wasn't growing and living standards weren't increasing We are turning those things around.

[00:24:11]Can't do it all overnight, but I think people recognize that we are beginning to turn things uh around. And what I would just say to that gentleman, he says that he loves this country and that he's a patriot. Well, one of the things that I love about this country is good manners and I think that he lacked those yesterday.

[00:24:28]>> Thank you, Chancellor.

[00:24:29]>> Thank you.

[00:24:29]>> Appreciate your time.

[00:24:31]>> That was Rachel Reeves, the chancellor.

[00:24:33]This is the UK tonight. Coming up in a moment, net migration falls to its lowest level since 2021. We will dive into the numbers.

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[00:27:49]Net migration has fallen by nearly half to its lowest level since co. 171,000 more people came to the UK last year than left. Here's our data and forensics correspondent Tom Chesher.

[00:28:02]Net migration is falling, but most of the public don't think that's the case.

[00:28:06]That doesn't necessarily mean people are wrong about migration for a couple of reasons. So what's going on here? Well, this is the story of net migration over the years. You've got immigration here in blue. Immigration, people leaving the country in that sort of turquoisey and then net migration. The difference between them here in black. You can see over the years that was sort of declining. Then you have this really really big spike post Brexit, post pandemic, post the changes that happened. It really went up until you had uh net migration nearly at the million mark. Well, where has it gone since there? It's really been falling.

[00:28:38]It's fallen to 171,000 from 331,000 in the previous 12 months. So, that is coming down. It's around the sort of levels comparable to 10 years ago. Why is it coming down? Well, first of all, we need to understand why it was so high in the first place. And this is that story of immigration. We've broken up here into British nationals, EU nationals, and non-EU nationals. Now again ahead of Brexit, ahead of the pandemic and those rule changes, we saw that EU nationals were the biggest sort of source of net migration in here. A bit less for non-EU nationals, British nationals here. But then when we get here again, there's this big increase in non-EU nationals coming postrexit rule changes and post pandemic. It absolutely soared more than a million people non-EU nationals in 2023 but it has been coming down to around 350,000 last year almost havinging which is mainly because of government changes to policy. They closed visa routes for oversee care workers stopped most students and care workers bringing family members. There were higher salary requirements for skilled workers. There more students returning home. What do the public think? Well, this is what we think. 16% of the public think migration fell in the past year. That is the correct view according to the statistics. 49% of people think immigration increased in the past year.

[00:29:59]There's probably another gap too between the statistics and people's experiences.

[00:30:04]The rate of new arrivals versus the cumulatively effect which is what the public actually sees. Same as when economic inflation rate that goes down should be good news, but the prices people pay are still higher than they were before. The same for immigration.

[00:30:17]For instance, net migration may be dropping, but it still means, for example, that 627,000 non-EU citizens arrived last year, a few hundred thousand or so less. And that happens year after year. So, this is what this shows. This shows the foreignb born population in the UK over time, less than 6 million back in 2004. It's this sort of steady rise all the way over until we get to 2022 and we're over 10 million. And look what happens just in the last two years from 2022 to 2024.

[00:30:46]There's another big increase. That is an estimated increase of 1.6 million people, more than the population of Birmingham. So foreign nationals now make up an estimated 19% of the population, nearly a fifth really, versus 14% a decade ago, according to previous population surveys. So net migration may be falling, but because there are more foreign nationals than ever living in the UK, it might seem to a lot of people that it's still going up. In terms of thinking about immigration and its effects on British society, that may be a wiser way of looking at things.

[00:31:22]Yes, the headline doesn't necessarily tell the whole whole story. So to help dissect it, I'm joined now by the director of the migration observatory at the University of Oxford, Maline Sumption. Maline, good to see you as always. People will zone in on that headline and especially the government say, "Hey, look, we're sorting migration out." But as Tom just pointed out there, that's not necessarily the case, is it?

[00:31:45]>> Yeah, that's right. I mean, there there's never an optimal amount of immigration. It's very difficult to say, you know, you get to the number and that's the right number. And actually, one reason for that is that it's what matters for the economic impacts and for the social impacts is not just how many people are migrating, but also who. Um and so actually if you look at the composition of migration um some of these routes that um are actually a bit more economically beneficial like for example skilled workers are the ones the government find most easy to control. So there have been some restrictions there and the numbers fell. If you look at the other end of the spectrum though asylum um which is less economically beneficial in fact there's probably there's an economic cost over the course of lifetime of supporting refugees in the UK. Um what we see there is actually you know there's a there's a little bit of a decline but they have been broadly stable and unusually high. So the composition the numbers have shifted in a way that the government will be happy with but the composition of migration hasn't.

[00:32:37]>> Yes. And look let's address the small boats element of this because people often equate that with the entire migration story when of course it's a smaller proportion. Nevertheless, the number of people arriving has gone up, I think, 3% this year, but the number of people claiming or receiving asylum has gone down. How's that worked?

[00:32:59]>> Yeah, there are slightly different time periods here. And actually, if you look at the more recent period for for small boats, um there is uh that the numbers have have gone down a little bit um over the last few months, and that hasn't yet fed through into all of the statistics.

[00:33:13]the but there is another reason that we've seen asylum applications decline which is that um actually quite a few people who arrive and apply for asylum are not coming by small boat they're coming on visas people coming on on student visas for example or as as visitors and we saw a decline there particularly because of students which could be related to the fact that actually student migration has declined there were some restrictions the previous government introduced on student migration so it's possible that that is feeding through into fewer of those international students claiming asylum >> it Let me pick up on that and and how these changes are affecting things here. If student migration is going down, if there's more restrictions on people bringing their immediate relatives, for example, when they want to study here, that's having an impact on the the coffers of universities. If if net migration is coming down at the same time as the birth rate, that has a longerterm impact on the population of the UK as well, doesn't it?

[00:34:10]>> Yeah. So there are different uh there are different impacts on the students issue. Um yes the universities have become very reliant on international students. The number of actual student main applicants the people paying fees have not actually gone down as much.

[00:34:24]Most of that decline is driven by um by the family members of students which is actually an outcome that I think um the government the previous government and the current government uh would be uh would be pretty happy with in terms of the the birth rate going down. So the UK we're now in a position where without migration um there would be that there would be small population declines. So there are more um there are more deaths than births if you take migration out of the the population. But that decline would not necessarily be very big. Um many economists think that that is effectively manageable. It does make things a little bit harder for public finances because obviously you rely on a um sort of working age population to then support the the elderly population.

[00:35:02]And if that working age population in particular is decreasing then that's that can get tricky. But but broadly speaking I think um you know you don't necessarily need very migration is not a very efficient solution actually to the challenges that are brought by population growth.

[00:35:17]>> Let's just finish off by talking about the figures. I mean we can see that chart where it rocketed up. I think that's what some people call the Boris wave. It's now coming down in almost mirroring way. How much further do you think it's going to go? Because is it the case? I mean, because successive governments have talked about managing net migration to the tens of thousands without being any of them particularly specific, but is that the likely outcome if it continues on this trajectory?

[00:35:44]>> In the short run, possibly. The numbers could could go down a little bit further. A lot depends on how many of those people who entered in those first couple of years after Brexit. um there a lot of those people are still on temporary visas and we don't yet know how many will be able to find a way to stay and how many will choose to go home or will have to go home. So in the next couple of years while that is still um working its way through the system it could be that we go into a period of of much lower migration. I don't think that that you know people would be mistaken then to say oh well you know migration is over the numbers are really low because if that happens it will be temporary. Um and uh and what the sort of modeling projects is that actually if you go towards 2029 2030 migration levels would start to tick up again >> Maline really appreciate your time and uh and your expertise on this. Thank you so much.

[00:36:32]>> You're welcome.

[00:36:35]>> Now the next story also touches on some of the divisions caused by migration but we should warn you that it contains distressing content and that is right from the start. Hundreds of people protested in Dublin today over the death of a congallesborn man in one of Dublin's busiest shopping streets. He was pinned to the ground by no fewer than five security guards, one of whom appeared to kneel on his neck. Steven Murphy has the story.

[00:37:00]>> A man suspected of shoplifting fights for his life on a Dublin pavement.

[00:37:05]Pinned down by security staff, a knee is thrust into his neck. His struggles are in vain. This video lasts for almost five minutes and clearly shows Eve Squila becoming unresponsive. He's taken to hospital where he's pronounced dead.

[00:37:21]The death and that video has shocked, angered, and frightened many in Ireland's ethnic communities already feeling vulnerable after years of a rise of a small but very vocal hard opposition to immigration.

[00:37:34]>> We need justice for Eve. Nothing but justice. They're now finding their voice to demand justice. 35-year-old Eve Squila came to Ireland from the Congo more than 20 years ago. He was well known and liked by members of a football team and a church group here. He experienced challenges with drugs and homelessness and had a previous shoplifting conviction. None of that history matters. According to the Congalles community here, the simple truth they say is that nobody deserves to die over an alleged shoplifting incident. If if Zakila was a white Irish man, would it have been handled the same way?

[00:38:18]Would it?

[00:38:20]We all know the truth.

[00:38:22]>> The incident happened outside a major department store, Arnets. The retailer said it was deeply saddened and no loss of life should ever be the outcome of a retail security incident. It says it's now conducting a review with its security contractor. The Irish police and the police ombbudsman are also investigating.

[00:38:40]>> Uh Mr. Sakila was homeless. I understand. uh he had certain drug issues and it seems that he suffered uh a loss of life uh as a consequence of something that has been said about a bottle of perfume or something like that which does not ordinarily uh attract uh capital um capital penalty.

[00:39:05]>> A man in his 80s was knocked over and injured during the incident as Eve Squila was fleeing the scene.

[00:39:13]Immigration has become an increasingly divisive issue in Ireland in recent years. Regular protests have produced sporadic rioting as the country deals with a surge in the numbers coming here.

[00:39:24]>> I live here 30 years in Ireland. There's a war of racism, hypocrisy in this country.

[00:39:30]>> Racism is getting worse. You think >> getting worse, worse and worse.

[00:39:34]>> The case has divided opinion online and has stoked racial divisions. The Congalles in Ireland say they won't stop fighting until they see justice for Eve.

[00:39:44]>> Steven Murphy, Sky News in Dublin.

[00:39:48]>> Now, a few weeks ago, we told you about the potentially deadly impact of working with engineered stone. That's workers filling things like quartz kitchen worktops. Uh later today, lawmakers in California will vote on whether to ban it there, potentially becoming the first US state to do so. Campaigners here in the UK say tougher action is needed as well to protect workers here. Katie Barnfield reports now from Los Angeles.

[00:40:11]>> This room is now Jose's world. Needing oxygen 24/7, he can't work, can't drive, can't even play with his grandchildren.

[00:40:21]>> The disease is aggressive. It's unpredictable.

[00:40:25]Sometimes I don't want to see anyone. I don't want to speak to anyone.

[00:40:31]>> And it's all because of this. He's one of hundreds of California workers who contracted silicosis, a deadly lung disease, from inhaling dust while cutting quartz worktops.

[00:40:42]>> I have four children, 14 grandchildren.

[00:40:47]>> I've overheard conversations between them and my wife where they ask her what she's going to do when she's alone. I hold on to my faith.

[00:40:57]>> I ask God for more time to live. You might have quartz worktops like these in your own kitchen. Recently, I reported on the beginning of a silicosis crisis in the UK. I'm absolutely sure there are people who have silicosis who are unaware that they have it walking around the UK at the moment.

[00:41:15]>> In California, it has already become an epidemic.

[00:41:19]The US state has seen more than 560 diagnoses and 31 deaths from silicosis in tradesmen working with engineered stone with 98% of all cases being Latino workers.

[00:41:33]>> This is Anna's husband, Victor, a countertop worker before the silicosis took hold 5 years ago. She lost him to the disease. I pray here and when I'm sad I come and speak to him.

[00:41:49]It's been 5 years, but I wish that he was still here. I miss him so much.

[00:41:55]>> Before he passed away, his health was terrible. At night, I was afraid that he wouldn't wake up the next morning. He was always wearing his mask, but it doesn't mean the mask could protect him.

[00:42:07]He still got the disease. And how do you feel about this product, quartzen engineered stone still being sold, still being used, you know, around the world?

[00:42:19]>> I feel bad because this is going to happen to other families and there are families with children and they will be orphans without a father.

[00:42:27]>> There has been a growing campaign in California for a ban on the use of engineered stone, the same move that Australia made 2 years ago. California's occupational health board has been debating whether to start that process.

[00:42:42]>> Hi James, nice to meet you. I'm Katie.

[00:42:44]How are you?

[00:42:44]>> James Nevin's law firm Braen PCEL is representing hundreds of silicosis patients.

[00:42:50]>> Well, we started approximately 3 years ago with 20 cases. As of today, we're up to 750 clients. I mean this is just off the charts epidemic when it comes to high content crystal and silk artificial stone >> wet methods ventilation mass do not work.

[00:43:12]>> What would you say to the UK about what we could maybe expect coming down the line?

[00:43:17]>> The silicosis that is diagnosed is the tip of the iceberg because most of it is not getting diagnosed. The problem is so much worse than people realize. People just aren't looking. The industry body that would meet with us is called the International Surface Fabricators Association. They represent both the manufacturers who make engineered stone and the fabricators who cut it.

[00:43:38]>> I trust our industry and the ones that are doing it properly and I trust that um that the the information that they're saying that it can be done safely. It is done safely. I do trust that.

[00:43:48]>> But why why even bother working with a product that has been proven to have a risk of silicosis when there are like you say zero silica alternatives available? Why? Why? Why even do that?

[00:43:58]>> Yeah, you're trying to pigeon me into an answer. I'm not going to give you one.

[00:44:00]So, but but because we're not because that's not my again, that is not what we we are not representing the product.

[00:44:07]We're talking about licensing on behalf of the fabrication community. And you know, we are product neutral.

[00:44:14]>> Behind the debate over the safety of engineered stone are more and more people whose lives are being destroyed.

[00:44:21]They want the rest of the world to listen to them before it's too late.

[00:44:26]Katy Bfield, Sky News, Los Angeles.

[00:44:31]>> Still to come here on the UK tonight, a sea of clar and blue. We'll have latest from Birmingham as Aston Villa fans welcome back their Europa League champions. Staying with football, England's World Cup men's squad announcement isn't until tomorrow, but some of the players have that have made the squad and have missed out have already been leaked.

[00:45:01]I'm Stuart Ramsey and I'm Skye's chief correspondent.

[00:45:09]>> Enormous explosion has just come down. I think it was a monster just landed in between us.

[00:45:15]>> Hundreds and hundreds of people hoping to get north, ultimately to get to the United States.

[00:45:20]>> It's a border where they're not welcome.

[00:45:22]Yet they keep coming.

[00:45:27]>> We saw snatch squads going in, grabbing people, taking them out, and putting them into trucks. They're taking them away.

[00:45:35]>> They make about 50 kilos of fentinel a week. It's incredibly dangerous and toxic stuff.

[00:45:44]>> There's been an upsurge in deaths. The fighting between the gangs is getting more and more vicious.

[00:45:52]Is this now all your territory?

[00:45:54]>> Yeah.

[00:45:56]>> The battlefield is outside the barricades which is over there. This is much more like a normal town.

[00:46:05]>> It's really sending a clear message that Venezuela is eager for change. We've been crushed free from wherever you get your news.

[00:46:17]We are in the middle of a forest in a jungle really and they're attempting to keep these men alive. This is real hardcore emergency medicine.

[00:46:28]The information on this could bring down the entire network, not just in Iraq and Syria, but across the world.

[00:46:37]Sky News, the full story first.

[00:46:43]Hundreds of thousands of people have been using the beast for years to traverse Mexico, but it's really dangerous. Many people have died riding it.

[00:46:55]I bet right now you often find yourself asking why. Why was a certain decision taken? Why did something happen? Why did they say or do that? I'm Neil Patterson and it's my job as a journalist to find out why. Just explain why.

[00:47:10]>> It's a difficult one. Well, I mean, it's massive.

[00:47:12]>> It's a very, very severe situation.

[00:47:15]>> So, if you want to make sense of this complicated world, Sky News new podcast, This is Why is your daily fix. One story every day, and we can find out why together. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:47:30]Returning to one of one of our top stories now. In documents released today, it revealed that the late Queen pushed for her son Andrew to be given a role as a trade envoy, amongst other insights. the royal historian and biographer Andrew Lowry is with me now.

[00:47:44]Andrew, good to see you. I mean, you've researched Andrew quite intensively spoken to dozens of hundred people I think for your book. So, does this revelation shine any new light on the man for you?

[00:47:57]>> No, it doesn't. I mean, I talked to about 300 people over the course of four years. Uh, and actually all this is all the stuff that's in the papers today was in the book. I mean, we knew the queen had pushed for this appointment. he had said to her uh that he wanted a big job.

[00:48:10]We know that Tony Blair and Peter Mlesson also encouraged it against the opposition of the king who thought that Andrew would go off and play golf, chase woman and try and make some money. So, um but I think what's interesting is just to see the the paperwork showing the difference, the concerns among government that this perhaps wasn't the most appropriate appointment, but not knowing how to to kind of deal with it.

[00:48:34]Uh and of course the fact that Andre in effect basically wrote his own job description. You know he was only going to see certain things, ballet dancers but not people in the theater. He wanted to go to sophisticated countries. So um it does sort of bring home just you know the element of difference that there still was then and I I suspect still continues.

[00:48:53]>> Do you think in the same way or do you think the royal family and their use in political circles? I mean, I'm thinking about the king going to visit Donald Trump in recent weeks, of course.

[00:49:05]Do you think it maybe it has changed to to a certain degree?

[00:49:09]>> Well, I think if you're the right person, uh, then the soft power of the monarchy can be very effective. And that was shown with the king and, uh, in America a few weeks ago. I think the problem was they had the wrong guy. I mean, they had the Duke of Kent who was doing a perfectly good job, but because Andrew had the ear of the queen and wanted something to do, uh, they they gave it to him and there were no proper safeguards. um there was no uh proper line management uh and so instead of actually him properly being supervised uh and controlled, he kind of just was able to use this as he wanted and he was able to run up huge expenses without any sort of uh check uh and certainly when I talked to some of the bean counters uh at the UK TI who were complaining about the expenses, they were just told, well, if the queen allows it, then it should be allowed and these were things like massages with happy endings. But, you know, the fact he was not forced to stay at the ambassador's residence, but was allowed to go to expensive five-star hotels so he could meet people in private, you know, is something that should never have been allowed.

[00:50:09]>> And I think what I do welcome is that at least some of the files are now being released. I mean, I've been campaigning for 5 years to get anything released and was told that nothing would be uh made public until 2065. So, that's that's an improvement.

[00:50:22]>> Listen, some people hearing what you just described will be a little bit shocked. to apologize if that upsets anybody, but you've you've looked into this extensively and of course the man formerly known as Prince Andrew denies any wrongdoing. I guess the final question to you, Andrew, was was this the position that people were differential to or was it his personality and the way he pushed for things and his entitlement that led to a lot of this kind of stuff?

[00:50:48]>> Well, I mean, the two go to hand in hand, of course. He was he was uh he, you know, he thought he's in effect anointed. I mean, he there's a story in the book of getting people to bow lower lower and lower to lower to him because he didn't think they'd uh bowed low enough, but um but he was enabled and protected by diplomats, politicians, civil servants. He, you know, he didn't operate alone. People booked the private jets and booked the prostitutes. Uh and I think that's why it's so important we have a full public inquiry uh into his time as a trade envoy. I mean uh of those 300 I talked to you that 2,700 I approached who didn't talk to me and these are the people who need to be brought the the ex ambassadors in Azabaijan the heads of the UK TI former foreign secretaries who who who didn't want to talk uh you know there's a higher loyalty here than to the crown and that is you know to to to to the fact that this is a was endemic corruption and he was allowed he knew he was invincible he could do what he wanted >> appreciate your I just to reiterate, of course, uh Andrew, the other Andrew, the man himself, the former Prince Andrew, uh denies any wrongdoing and continues to do so. Thanks for your time. All the same.

[00:51:57]>> Pleasure.

[00:52:00]>> Let's talk sport now. Jess is here.

[00:52:02]Jess, good to see you. We're going to talk about Thomas Tukul's uh men's squad for the the World Cup. It's going to be announced tomorrow, but it already seems that some people, some players are shedding some light on what's going on.

[00:52:16]>> And I don't think they're the only ones.

[00:52:18]Players are talking, agents are talking, fans are talking. And Matt, social media is ablaze with rumor, with gossip, with hearsay. And over at Sky Sports News HQ, us journalists have been trying to wade through it all, verify what's what. And this is what we know. This is what we're reporting. We already know cuz Harry Maguire has confirmed it himself.

[00:52:36]Manchester United defender is out of the squad. He will not be picked for the World Cup this summer. He said he is gutted. He has admitted that on his social media. He thought he had a big part to play this summer. Thomas Tukul thought otherwise and so he won't make the squad. We're also hearing that Levi Cowill, the Chelsea defender, and Luke Shaw, Maguire's Manchester United teammate, will also be out of the squad.

[00:53:00]And that's interesting for Luke Shaw because he's been in good form this season and played in every single Premier League game for Manchester United. So those three in particular out.

[00:53:08]>> There have been multiple reports. We haven't been able to verify this though, that Phil Foden and Cole Palmer, the number 10s for England previously are out.

[00:53:18]>> Wow. I mean that's huge cuz they're both incredibly talented individuals. Both Manunians of course Palace for Chelsea.

[00:53:26]Uh more on that I guess tomorrow. Jess, uh, we'll leave it there for the time being because we are going to switch back to club football now and I'm sure there's some Villa fan, Villa players are going to be in the England squad. I >> think there will be.

[00:53:37]>> Uh, yes, Morgan Rogers is is likely, I would imagine. But Birmingham was Claris and Blue today for the first time this century. Tens of thousands of Aston Villa fans got to cheer their team through the streets and celebrate a major trophy. guys. Dan Whitehead was there with the Europa League champions.

[00:53:57]>> 24 hours after victory in Istanbul, the celebrations continued on home turf.

[00:54:07]>> Thousands lined the streets of Birmingham as the players soaked in the glory.

[00:54:11]>> The lads have have never seen a trophy land. And then >> we always had faith in Emry and it's one of our sayings now in M trust.

[00:54:20]>> All these years like been through a championship back in the Prem to finally get where we are means a lot.

[00:54:25]>> I was just delighted over the moon. Very happy everyone.

[00:54:29]>> The 44 year drought for European silverware is over for Villa after a remarkable turnaround for the club. For the fans, this was a celebration of the players, but also a mark of respect for the manager who has brought the club from the brink of the relegation zone to international victory.

[00:54:47]>> You'll never ever see a better manager than him. What he's done for his club is unbelievable.

[00:54:52]>> Without him, I don't think any of this would have would have been possible really. He's unbelievable. He's a magician, isn't it? He really is. The stuff he's done at Villa, it's just it's wonders. In Centidory Square, there were roars as the Europa League Cup was raised.

[00:55:08]>> Many had gathered for hours to catch a glimpse of this moment, but in reality, they had been waiting for decades. Dan White did Sky News in Birmingham.

[00:55:20]Well done to the villains, of course.

[00:55:22]That's it from me. Barbara is here up up next on Sky News with the world. Bye for now.

[00:58:03]tonight. Sanctions eased and some taxes lowered to save our summer. But the boss of the world's energy agency has issued a stern warning. I will be very careful for the European governments and the UK government to go back and knock on the door of uh Russia.

[00:58:21]>> There's been anger in Keev over the UK's decision to pause its boycott of Moscow's oil. The prime minister says he had to act because of the cost of living crisis. But after a phone call last night, Ukraine's president has cancelled his trip to London. Also coming up, Check it.