WWDC, Siri AI, and all of Apple's platforms, on the AppleInsider Podcast

[00:00:05]Hello and welcome to the Apple Insider podcast. I'm your host Wesley Hillyard and I'm joined once again by William Gallagher. It's WWDC week. It's busy.

[00:00:14]You know what we're here to talk about.

[00:00:15]There's so much to get through. But first, I want to thank our sponsors, Nordstellar and Scribe AI. And if you don't want to hear about sponsors, we have Apple Insider Plus, which is where we're going to be discussing at length how many machines William has accidentally installed the betas on. Uh, but stick around for that after the show, of course. Uh, but yes, we're going to talk about how the betas have been going so far, any glitches we've run into. Um, I'll go ahead and say here, don't install the betas, uh, unless you're just asking for trouble.

[00:00:50]But William, how are you?

[00:00:53]>> I'm all right. But I think at some point I did say, "Dear trouble, come visit me cuz I am having hiccups with it." But you know, in general, actually, I'll tell you what. Let's do this right now.

[00:01:03]I'll go get out there cuz I've been so horrible about this in the past. I so far really like Siri, the new Siri.

[00:01:10]Okay, said it. Only on my Mac stuff. I haven't got up my iPhone, and that's a big difference. But I I'm so much happier than I have been for what 2 years now or so just in the beta. So >> I've installed betas everywhere except the Apple TV because it tends to break uh HomePods somehow when you don't have them on the same OS. So I'll be waiting for the public HomePod beta uh so I can install that and the TV OS at the same time. So that'll be in July. Everything else has the OS27 installed. Um, I did get accepted Siri.

[00:01:50]>> Yeah. No, just think if this suddenly becomes a solo podcast, we'll understand why. Everything is on the Okay.

[00:01:58]>> Well, go for the machine I'm recording on is >> The machine I'm recording on is Mac OS Golden Gate.

[00:02:04]>> Um, which is fine. The betas in recent years haven't been that bad, but still installing them on a primary device. Got to be careful. It's my job. So, if it does explode, I get to write about it.

[00:02:16]Um, >> but how how pen and paper it >> I have a um MacBook Neo here that is running Mac OS Tahoe.

[00:02:29]>> Okay. So, all right. If if if I really needed something that was if everything spontaneously caught on fire cuz Apple put in the wrong code >> and that's a thing that they can do, then yes, I have a backup here.

[00:02:43]>> But I also got on the Siri AI uh thing.

[00:02:47]The wait list only took me 2 days, 3 days to get on and I've been testing that. So, we can get into that a little bit. But >> let's get to the show because there's a lot to go over. Uh, if you listen to our pre our quick post show thing the other day, we're probably going to retread some ground here, but um, I say we handle this the oldfashioned way. Let's go OS by OS as much as we can >> and then round up some features at the end.

[00:03:15]>> Okay, you're not one over by Apple's throw everything together approach, which I could kind of understand, but it it as a Mac fan, it threw me. I got excited. This is the Mac bit. No, it isn't. So, yeah, you're going to go do it. I want I'm trying not to say the word properly, but I just did. You're going to do it properly. Are we going to start with the Mac or do you want to go on for that Apple Vision Pro thing you keep talking about?

[00:03:43]>> Uh, we could do Mac OS first because honestly there's not that much here. Um, >> as like so you wrote about this. What What's changed with Mac OS?

[00:03:54]really only Siri AI. Um, you said you're you're through the wait list. Um, I'm officially still on the wait list, but there is a way to get yourself through it on the Mac. So, I have it on the Mac and I've been using it and it is excellent, except when it isn't. I haven't got it on anything else yet to try. But if you take away Siri AI, this is the least update of Mac OS possibly ever. There's a couple of visual tweaks that are quite nice. There's um there's now a slider for adjusting how liquid liquid glass is, but yeah, I had to take a screenshot of before and after to see the difference. And even then, I was zooming in and thought, yeah, it's there. It feels a very begrudging feature from Apple, almost Microsoft like in that they can say we've had it, but it doesn't actually do much at all.

[00:04:45]And there are more rounds on paper.

[00:04:47]>> Yeah.

[00:04:49]>> Yeah. On paper, Apple focused on refinements, stability, performance. Um, things move faster, animations are faster, everything moves quicker. Uh, liquid glass has changed now cuz I know you want to downplay it, but it is different. And there is a slider, but um, liquid glass, >> yeah, there's a slider. You can make it either more opaque or more clear. I immediately set it to more clear because I enjoy the effect. Um, but yes, you can actually set it pretty much. It's not anything new there. You can set it to the most opaque it's ever been or the most clear it's ever been, more or less.

[00:05:30]There's not a It's not any further, but it is a slider.

[00:05:34]>> It is a slider. You do have those options. Um, but I forgot which one I left it on cuz I could barely tell the difference between it.

[00:05:42]>> Probably in the middle. I mean, Apple's default, honestly, is pretty harmless.

[00:05:46]Um, >> yeah, it's fine.

[00:05:47]>> So, >> you keep trying to stop me talking about rounded corners. I can't believe you're not excited about rounded corners, but okay. You are right. They did take time to specify.

[00:05:56]>> Yeah.

[00:05:57]>> Yeah, they did take the time to specify that they have more co-acentric circles in their design. That doesn't mean that all design is co-acentric. There are areas that have some uh uniformity issues, but I think that's only because you can only do it so much. If everything was identical, it would look crazy. You would there'd be problems everywhere. But um anyway, I I think that the new design uh is fine. There are more there's more layers, more glass, especially in the icons. Like the redesign maps icon, the one that they showed in the keynote is actually really nice if you look at it like on an iPhone. Um but yes, Mac OS primarily three three points. Siri AI redesigned uh liquid glass to an extent with a slider and of course the safety features Apple detailed in the keynote which we can get into at some point if we have time today. Um not a whole lot else Apple's website for this is actually pretty straightforward. It's uh we'll talk specifically about Siri AI and all the Apple intelligence stuff in its own section cuz if we just did that for every se every OS we would be here all day. Um, there's a new podcast app with video support. Basically, the same updates that they gave to the tvOS version of this app that desperately needed it. And then we have >> actually I didn't even realize that. Um, I haven't opened the podcast app on my Mac since I went to Mac OS Golden Gate.

[00:07:27]I should look at it. But actually, I was always fine with the old one. It was just Yeah.

[00:07:32]>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean they just gave it the new look like that's been there for a while because for whatever reason the Mac version hadn't quite been eaked out in that way. Um but yes, nothing else here. Uh I will point out as we get into the next uh systems, photos is now um letting you share full-sized images and has an better website for Android and Windows users for shared albums, which I I'm very excited about cuz I have a few group chats with Android friends that we have shared photo libraries for that they haven't really been able to take advantage of that they will now. So >> that's funny. Most of the people I know and work with are on Android or Windows, but I don't tend to share photographs with them. Not true. An hour before we started talking, I sent a photograph to someone, but I sent it as a like a WhatsApp message because we use WhatsApp messages. Yeah. Okay. I'd forgotten that, but you know.

[00:08:28]>> Well, so I will say um for you, William, and your freakishly large display, there is now ultra wide support officially baked into Mac OS. 5K at 120 Hz. I guess it's time for you to finally upgrade.

[00:08:42]Well, I wanted to ask you about this actually because um I'm still on the same monitor. It's still the same resolution, but as soon as um Mac OS Golden Gate was on it, it felt different. It looked a little bit sharper. Um I have a thing that automatically puts windows in certain places and it wasn't right anymore. It was putting them slightly too short. So, I couldn't work out whether the resolution had improved or not, but I like the look of it. So yeah, I'm sticking with >> they've increased >> the supported resolution. So basically whatever your highest pixel count was before, it's a bit bigger now. Um >> I say vision OS next just because this is actually interesting. Um we talked about this before the keynote. Uh what attention, if any, was the Apple Vision Pro going to get? Is this truly a dead product? Uh does Apple actually care about it anymore? And once I got the beta, because the keynote had two mentions of Vision OS, just like it had almost no mention of HomePods or um TV OS, but there's actually quite a lot here. I did a kind of count for count.

[00:09:51]It's basically as much of an update as Vision OS 26 was, I think, minus a couple of major things. Um, last year we got spatial widgets as the major keynote item and a few upgrades across the system. I would say this year's spatial widgets um is Siri AI because I think that Siri AI of all the platforms this is the one it's most important on because spatial computing and intelligence is going to go hand inand more and more as these uh technologies improve. So that stuff here is great.

[00:10:27]Too bad though that it is broken in beta 1. My Siri AI does not work in beta 1.

[00:10:32]So, >> right. Just on Vision Pro.

[00:10:36]>> Just on Vision Pro. Uh, for whatever reason, it just won't connect. Uh, there's something weird going on there.

[00:10:40]It could be just my system. I don't know. Um, this is a beta thing. That's what happens when you're testing these things. But, um, I did get the little orb and put it on my desk and it's cool, but it doesn't do anything right now.

[00:10:51]But, >> looking at what's here in Vision OS, because there's things that you can actually interact with, William, that I want to talk about. Um, so moving past Siri, because everything Siri AI can do is coming to every platform. Uh, there's really nothing here that's unique to iPhone in any specific way. I mean, even visual intelligence is coming to the web on Mac. So, I mean, it's just it's everywhere. Um, Safari has this new really cool view.

[00:11:20]I'm going to call it the U minority report review uh view for Safari where you can click a if you have multiple tabs open you can click a little icon and it opens all the tabs in this big spherical view around you and as vertical windows >> it's really cool >> that's like >> dot and bubble in Doctor Who. Okay. Not sure what I think about that.

[00:11:43]>> Okay.

[00:11:44]>> Yeah. And you can grab it >> cultural reference there.

[00:11:46]>> Yeah. As long as you're not um grabbing movable content in the windows, grabbing arbitrarily anywhere in the space and then scrolling lets you move the panes around on a big like um what's what's the word? carousel. So, it's neat. Uh I actually like this a lot. I set it up so Safari was open in front of me with the carousel kind of wrapping around me with like four or five tabs open for research on a piece I was writing. And then I put drafts above my keyboard almost like a piece of paper on a typewriter and was able to look up to reference the windows and move them around and scroll up and down and then look down to drafts to type. And it was really cool. It was very very well executed.

[00:12:35]What's this thing about being able to take any photograph and turn it into an environment? You could take a photograph of your actual room and put it on your headset.

[00:12:44]>> I do have a panoramic of my office that was offered as a new spatial environment. So, I could make my office my spatial environment, as silly as that is. So, like take a very clean photo of my office and just let it get as messy as I want cuz then as long as I'm in the Vision Pro, it's clean. Um, it's neat.

[00:13:04]It's definitely uh So, basically, this is the custom watch faces of Vision OS.

[00:13:09]This is something we've been really wanting for a while now. It's not limited to apps. It's not limited to anything. It's just if you have a panoramic photo in your photo library, you can just set it as a 3D dynamic uh wallpaper. It doesn't move. I hope that that's something that they can add later, like detect that it's a tree and then make the branches sway in the wind or something because we got um a new environment uh whose name is uh I don't know, Thor's I don't it's Icelandic, so I can't tell you how to actually say it, but it's a beautiful ice covered landscape. Uh at night, it's the Aurora Borealis above your head. Uh, but at night the creek by you is frozen solid because I guess there's only one moving element at a time. Daytime, blue skies, the creek next to you is babbling along. It's really, really smart how they did that.

[00:14:03]>> But if you do one of your panoramas, it gets converted to 3D. So, I have this beautiful shot. We were up on top of one of the uh what you call a bald, I guess, the top of a mountain nearby. And uh it's kind of plateaus and you can see all around you. You can see the valley.

[00:14:19]You can see the other mountains nearby.

[00:14:20]And I took this sweeping panoramic around this peak where you could basically go in a almost near full circle panoram if you don't mess up. And set it as my spatial photo. Well, it reaches all the way around behind me. It doesn't touch in the back, but it reaches all the way around me. And there's depth to it. So, the grass in front of me is closer to me. The mountains in the distance are uh spatially separated. And then behind me there was a bush that looks like it's physically present in the space. The branches in the bush and the leaves are all separated dynamically. So like it adds real depth to the panoramic, not just one or two layers, but it feels very layered and very present. Um like a rock felt like it was the correct distance away from me, for example. The biggest thing here is it's a panoram it has a limited top and bottom. it fuzzes out at the edges. And in my field of view, it basically it fills my field of view, but if I look down, I can see my keyboard, which honestly is nice versus Apple's environments, which are 360° spherical. Uh, I I like this. I wanted to see some animated elements to this at some point, but for now, this is like setting a wallpaper on your desktop. You can set whatever you want.

[00:15:40]There's no limits. I know Apple has funny limitations about certain things um across its AI stuff and what images you can use with it, but this is free game. As long as it's registered as a panoramic photo in photos, this works.

[00:15:55]>> But the thing I don't the 3D effect, it is added 3D and it looks good.

[00:16:02]>> That's and it's well executed. Very well executed.

[00:16:06]>> Goodness.

[00:16:06]>> Um >> new control center. Again, this is the best one by far. Uh, new widgets, new widget sizes.

[00:16:14]Um, and just overall pretty nice. I think like this is a good attention to detail thing. Like they fixed they continue to refine notifications.

[00:16:26]Um, they did the performance things in Vision OS like they did everywhere. And then on top of that, all of the Siri stuff. So, this is not a limited or small release. This is a full release of Vision OS and I'm I'm very happy with it. Uh and I hope that through the year we get more.

[00:16:43]>> What about the thing uh we talked about before of native apps not existing? Is they still >> Yes. So this is the thrust of my piece on this. It's a great release but it doesn't fix the problems with vision OS or uh Apple Vision Pro specifically.

[00:16:59]Apple didn't really do anything for developers. Uh I did see they are holding these community communitydriven keynotes and even invited a community vision pro community. Uh anyway they had them speak on stage at WWDC and that's great like that is the kind of evangelism we need to see but we also need some finances thrown in here and Apple did not announce anything like that at WWDC. there's no motivation, no reason to build apps for this platform right now. And that's really hurting the platform, I think. But um that and you're right, there are the same native or the same iPad compatible apps are there. Find my is still not present on the platform in any shape or form. We got a new uh native app and that's the Siri app. It's native. But yeah, everything else is where it was four years ago, 3 years ago.

[00:17:55]>> Goodness, that long.

[00:17:58]>> Still amazing. It feels like the new thing on the block. And uh suddenly blockheads. Yeah. Okay.

[00:18:05]>> Yeah. It was announced in 23. So yeah, 3 years ago, same compatible app list.

[00:18:09]Nothing's changed. And that's just damning on its own of where Apple's attentions are, but juxtaposed to how much Vision OS got on its own. I think it just means that Apple hasn't gone to Apple Maps and said, "Hey, make a native app." You know, it's cuz that is its own division in Apple. And for whatever reason, they just haven't done that.

[00:18:30]They had other things to do. So, I don't know. We'll see if those start rolling out soon or if we go another two or three years with the same list, whatever. Um, I think that this is a very every year solidifies the idea that this is a preview for what's happening in the future. And >> cuz AR, think AR glasses. Don't think Vision Pro. Think what's it going to look like when I wear glasses and have these things involved? Because one last thing before we move on to the next OS.

[00:19:03]Vision OS got better spatial accessory support and object recognition support.

[00:19:12]So spatial accessories can now be things that third parties just make with a Bluetooth connection and a chip to communicate like gyro position stuff like that with LEDs for tracking that can just be made by somebody. Um, also you can turn objects into trackable objects. Like my water bottle, the one that you have, >> could be Bluetooth connected to your Apple uh Vision Pro with a 3D model uploaded to the app and then have it appear in full 3D modeling inside of a spatial environment uh where it is in the physical space. So when you reach out and grab it, you're actually grabbing the real water bottle. Um >> Oh, okay.

[00:19:52]>> Yeah. uh or like when you look at it, the Vision Pro would recognize that you're looking at your smart water bottle and a widget could pop out the side and show you your water levels.

[00:20:02]>> That's good. Um, one thing, the the idea that new hardware will come at some point, is it are we not now at the stage where it isn't really worth Apple's trouble making big changes to Vision OS until there's a hardware thing because that's when the spotlight's going to be back on it.

[00:20:20]>> I think it's the opposite. Um, this is a very early, very young OS and like think more '9s Mac than Watch OS 2, right? Cuz watch OS iterated quickly. It became very popular very fast. It was a inexpensive device to get a hold of.

[00:20:39]>> Whereas Mac was so niche for a while that it almost caused the company to go bankrupt and had to have a revolution to save it more or less. And I don't think that's necessarily as dramatic as Vision OS and Apple Vision Pro, but I do think the development cycle is as slow. This is a new product category like we've never seen before. This is bringing a completely different paradigm to computing for the first time in 40 years, right? like everything other like the iPad is arguable because it's a touch screen but ultimately it became a laptop with a physical keyboard and trackpad right the desktop with a screen turned into the laptop with the screen it's always been a keyboard mouse and display vision OS is the really one of the first ones in a for since computing that introduced a completely new idea where looking and pinching was the primary interface your voice was as a primary interface over a display that covers your eyes. And as we see this evolve and get smaller and better, it it needs to be integrated in the things that we do every day. So yes, while there won't be new Vision Pro hardware for two more years at least, they still should be updating and innovating on this because once that stuff's ready, there will be a platform waiting for it. And that's important.

[00:22:08]Okay. There's a bit of me that wants to defend the Mac in the ' 90s and I want to go yay about System 7, but I take your point. Yeah, I I'll just I'll be I'll be nostalgic about System 7 on my own time.

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[00:24:18]So, iPad OS was one of the smaller updates overall. I think I haven't had a chance to really explore what's in iPad OS. I'm going to be writing about it next week uh in detail. So, maybe we'll save that discussion for next week because I'll have uh done more specific research to iPad OS. This week was my my chance to give Vision OS uh time to shine. I that's why I have so much information about it, but it appears to be on a similar >> scope >> to Mac OS and you get Siri AI. You get the redesign liquid glass with the with the slider, but I think iPad OS versus the other oss got some of the biggest optimizations out of everyone. Um, external display support has better recognition of where windows are. Um, files transfer five times faster in the files app. Like every animation is smoother and better. The way you interact with the system is smoother and better. So, there's going to be some stuff I'm going to have to dive into here, but as far as userfacing features, I think the biggest ones truly are Siri AI. Uh, it might actually be funny to say. I I'm I'm not going to make the claim now, but I'm going to say at at first glance, Vision OS 27 might be a bigger update than iPad OS 27.

[00:25:41]>> I wouldn't be surprised given how little there is in the Mac. But just to check, uh even though you haven't particularly used it, you do have iPad OS 27 on your iPads, right?

[00:25:51]>> Yep. Yeah, both uh the iPad Pro and iPad Mini >> and you've had no problems with them. um the usual beta stuff that comes with iPad OS specifically. Uh it's easy to boot loop the machines. If you click on too many like uh selectable lists in a row, like if you just go to a a dropown menu and just open and close it a couple of times, you'll boot loop the iPad. But that's pretty much with every beta. I don't know why, but that's just that animation overclocks it or something.

[00:26:20]>> Um >> never heard that one.

[00:26:22]>> Okay. Cuz I was getting very tempted there to upgrade it even though I actually have no reason to it. I just fancied it and now I'm thinking, yeah, no, maybe, no, yeah, maybe.

[00:26:31]>> But iPad Mini, it's fine. I can still read my books and browse the web and do what I do on my iPad Mini. Um, I think the liquid glass looks great. I always liked it, but being able to set it to fully clear again, it just it's so sharp. I I really enjoy it. And the new icons just really pop. Um, they have updated the icons again. Um, but this the black icon with the fully liquid glass uh slider setting, >> something about it just looks sharp to me. I I'm really enjoying that. But yes, overall uh cuz we'll we'll get to Siri in its own section, but trust and safety stuff.

[00:27:11]Um, Apple intelligence, Siri AI, that's the biggest bits here. Um, and I'm trying to make sure I'm not missing anything specific. Like we we have the new shortcut stuff, but of course that's everyone.

[00:27:27]>> I don't know things to say about that.

[00:27:28]But yeah, >> I I will say that it seems to be the primary focus of iPad OS beyond the features everyone got was optimizations, files, the indexing of Spotlight. Now, a major issue that I had with iPad OS 26 was if I went to Spotlight and searched anything, nothing would happen for many seconds, if not a full minute.

[00:27:52]Like, it would just I could type in a name of a contact. And it's like it had to reindex my entire iPad to perform the search. iPad OS 27 uh changes that it reindexed the entire machine. It's still indexing. Actually, it takes about a week to do a full index of your device.

[00:28:10]Now, >> I was going to ask you that. Yeah, >> mine has said it's re-indexing, but I don't know how long to wait. Yeah. Okay.

[00:28:17]>> It's about a week. And and so, and once it's reindexed, it's only has to do that once. Like, it's not going to re-index every update, but once that's done, spot and and currently now, because Spotlight's technically also Siri, instantaneous. Anything I put in there, I'm getting a result as I type, which is how it should be. So, like those kinds of system updates across the board make iPad OS that much better, fluid, easy to use. Small things like if you copy something, the clipboard shows up in your recommended text, right? There's so much here. Um, like how I work is affected by iPad OS 27. Like the grammar uh checking as you're typing is much more powerful and seamless. Um, so and that's because of Apple intelligence. So we'll get to that in a moment. I don't Is there anything you want to add about iPad OS before we move on?

[00:29:13]>> Only that I'm stuck now in a loop of do I want to upgrade it? Do I not want to upgrade it? Can I please have an excuse to upgrade it? I think I'm going to upgrade, aren't I? Uh, in fact, you talk while I upgrade for it.

[00:29:25]>> It's funny because I've been contrary on the Mac. Uh, that's what I've been writing about. That's what I've been using most of all. Um, yeah, I love my iPad. I should look into this very carefully.

[00:29:37]>> I'll mention this here. Um, so Vision OS got an update for that makes it so Wi-Fi connects as it's booting up. So by the time the screen turns on, you're already on the internet. Previously, Vision OS booting um you would be out of the boot cycle in your like workspace and still not connected to Wi-Fi and then it would connect and that would be a little frustrating because you would open an app and it would say you're not connected to the internet. So now they've made it so as it's coming on it's already connected and your app should be fully loaded by the time you are able to click on them. Uh lots of Wi-Fi improvements everywhere though cuz iPad OS uh and iPhone as well got a new seamless switching feature which as you move between nodes in your home or Wi-Fi networks or from Wi-Fi to cellular >> the handoff is much more intelligent and saying what does this person want to do here? Should we cling to that one megabyte a second connection that's for like a mile away from the router as they're walking away from their home or should we switch to cellular before that ever gets that slow and that tenuous.

[00:30:44]Um, so I think that is a very important update especially since I tend to move around my home sometimes when I'm working to have different spaces. So that's >> also important on iPad >> except um I read the little notification my iPhone well Apple said it in the keynote and I read on the iPhone it's swapping between the two uh at some point um do you need to know this? I've been trying to get uh Mac OS Golden Gate onto my MacBook Pro and it will not do it.

[00:31:11]And it looks like one of the problems is uh Wi-Fi related though I cannot fathom why. Um, at one point I tried downloading, it's a 17 GB download and I switched to my iPhone for mirroring for the last bit of the preparation and as it happens it still fell over but I forgot to switch it off. So the next time I tried I could have been trying to redownload 17 GB for it and I have a limited you know contract >> for this. So am I happy that it's just popping around doing what it wants and running at my cellular bill or whatever it's called? So, this is going to be one of those things that I think we'll get to later, but mention it here since you're bringing it up.

[00:31:53]>> Um, the automatic usage of cellular data uh came out in iOS 9, and we wrote an article about how people were freaking out that it was using up their data limits. Now, iOS 9 was a long time ago.

[00:32:09]Unlimited data uh was much less common.

[00:32:12]Um, so it was a big issue. It was running up people's phone bills. Now, it's still there. It's moved to the Wi-Fi menu, not the cellular menu, and it's shown as uh a different name, but it's the same feature. It intelligently switches like it will pair Wi-Fi and cellular together to do your tasks, but it's only trickling in some cellular. like I've used 150 megabytes in the last 2 days, 3 days since I've installed the beta, which is nothing, right, in in modern uh internet. So, >> sure, >> I'm going to leave the feature on. It's fine. Um, it might mess with like VPNs cuz VPNs might freak out if you're on like two different networks simultaneously. Uh, so just something to keep in mind, but >> it's there. We'll we'll get to iOS here in a minute. I and uh at and at the end I want to discuss compatibility because I think this is a big year for compatibility uh at least discussion because there's some odd ones. Watch OS.

[00:33:15]What do you know about watch OS?

[00:33:19]>> Uh it exists. I don't think I even noticed it going by in the keynote because obviously we were writing different bits at the time. um Watch OS.

[00:33:27]Not a single thing went in my head from WWDC's presentation and I'm not upgrading the watch. I've had upgrade problems with the watch before. So, that one will wait. Um except go on then, break it to me. What did I miss that was fantastic and you're going to have me reaching for the update button right now?

[00:33:46]>> Anything.

[00:33:48]>> So, actually, yeah. No. Um I was just reviewing. So, Watch OS, funny enough, has several updates. In fact, this is the most limited device release because it's only coming to six Apple Watches.

[00:34:03]>> Oh, we'll talk about that. Yeah, >> we'll talk about compatibility later, but I want to get into why um here because one of the features is they're bringing a lot more ondevice processing to watch OS 27. There still isn't AI capable cuz you still need a lot. you need 8 gigs of RAM and a neural processor which neither of which are on Apple Watch. But Workout Buddy can now run entirely on Apple Watch in watch OS 27.

[00:34:32]>> Um, and that limitation alone is likely why they dumped anything that has an S8 or below. Uh, you were required to have an S9. And I believe the reason why is if you go back and look at the chipsets, the S6, 7, and 8 were all the same uh SIP, the same system and package >> with the same CPU and the same performance. The S9 was the first in four years to introduce a completely new processor that was more powerful. And I think that's why the cutoff is quote unquote so recent. Um, I'll go and do the compatibility talk for watch OS now because it's on my mind.

[00:35:14]This is not this is a nothing burger. I know there there's people out there freaking out saying Apple's abandoning people who bought a watch. Um, the S the series 8 and below the ones that are getting cut off. That was I what what we're at series 11 so almost four years ago, right? So it's three and some change since they came out. Um because this year we're going to get the 12. Um so nearly four years ago, Apple watches came out. Apple sold them, you bought them. They've gotten feature updates in the 3 years since. And now you're no longer going to get feature updates.

[00:35:52]You're going to get security updates and compatibility updates for the next 5 years or so. All right. So that watch will theoretically be able to run for about 9 years.

[00:36:02]Let's get into what you're not getting because you're not getting watch OS 27.

[00:36:07]William, I know this is devastating.

[00:36:11]>> Okay, I feel an insult coming. Hit me.

[00:36:13]Yeah. Okay.

[00:36:14]>> On device workout buddy processing.

[00:36:18]>> Yeah, I actually >> more accurate mileage.

[00:36:22]>> More accurate mileage for indoor walks.

[00:36:27]>> Workout buddy in Spanish.

[00:36:29]menopause support >> waiting for. Yeah.

[00:36:32]>> If you're tracking premenopause or menopause. Uh so see I I did I did the thing per menopause and menopause. See pre is the wrong word. Um if you're tracking that you have to have a more modern watch cuz it's only in watch OS 27. So that is justifiable. If you have an SE something or a series 8 and you wanted that tracking feature, >> you will have to upgrade. Um, the Siri AI compatibility, meaning that if you have a phone that supports Siri AI, you can talk to it through the watch. Processing is done on the phone or in the cloud. That is Watch OS 27.

[00:37:10]Um, you'll get better context recommendations and Smart Stack, stuff like that. Um, but also there's a new gesture where a double tap scrolls the Smart Stack and a single tap selects.

[00:37:24]That's a new gesture. And your app grid is now changed again. There's a dynamic app grid with giant icons that update as you use your watch that suggest apps that you would use normally in that time. And then you can scroll down to get to the full app grid. Uh that's it.

[00:37:43]That is all you're missing out on by not getting watch 27, 28, 29, so forth. I understand that it's frustrating that you're not getting these features, but I'm going to go ahead and say other than the parameopause menopause tracking because that is important and I think that if that's something you want to track it is it's annoying that you have to buy a new watch. Beyond that, >> you're you're not missing anything. This is you you're going to get your security updates. Your watch is still going to get notifications. It's still going to do everything you want it to do. You can still literally nothing changes about how your watch is going to work because of this update.

[00:38:21]>> I just think it's interesting that we obviously both of us are coming at this as Apple users and iPhone users. So four years isn't great, but doesn't seem terrible, but you know, I look at my my 16 Rolex watches. I rotate through the day and they're, you know, is Rolex 100 years old? I don't know. They're very very old.

[00:38:42]>> Yeah. just suppose it differently. Uh there are landfills full of Fitbits that came out a year ago. So it's true.

[00:38:52]>> The the Fitbit was bought by Google and then they came out with this band that everyone's going to abandon cuz it's silly anyway. Uh cuz it's using AI to tell you that you're fat. But this whole >> the then there there was this whole like Android Wear thing that they >> would just basically change every year.

[00:39:13]Um I don't even know. I I I don't want to speak off-handedly, but given that Android phones maybe get two feature updates after release, I'm willing to say that the Android Wear version that your Android Wear shipped with was probably the last version it shipped with. um just this is the kind of stuff we're talking about. I understand that's that shouldn't excuse Apple here, but the grass is not greener on the other side on in this situation. I I also believe that watch OS 27's compatibility list signals something significant shifting in the way that Apple address like addresses hardware in watch OS and we're going to see that >> okay >> this fall and and >> I'm hoping >> I'm hoping for the extra cheap watch that goes even the the Apple Watch Neo right um that makes that removes the screen is a smart band that revolutionizes the market that does everything that you want it to do just without a display. Um, that kind of thing. Like that's that's what I'm picking up from this is that we're going to see something dramatic shift in hardware in Apple Watch because they really did shave this down to just six devices and that's very interesting to me.

[00:40:31]>> Sorry, a watch without a display.

[00:40:34]uh >> smart band fitness notifications.

[00:40:38]>> Okay.

[00:40:38]>> Yeah.

[00:40:39]>> So, Fitbits and all that, they had some sort of friends who have them have clocks on them and things, but you're saying >> depends. Um I had a Nike Fuel Band once.

[00:40:48]That was neat, >> right?

[00:40:51]>> It showed your fuel points and the time and your steps. Um I don't know. We'll see. I we'll have time to talk about later.

[00:40:59]Let's do iOS and then we'll talk Siri and a little bit more compatibility and I think that'll wrap up the show. So, so iOS, we've we've been teasing it this whole time.

[00:41:09]>> Yeah.

[00:41:10]>> What's new for iOS, William?

[00:41:13]>> Uh, can I go with Siri AI?

[00:41:17]>> It's the easy bet.

[00:41:18]>> There you go.

[00:41:20]>> Yes. Frankly, um it's a weird year for this because Siri is in everything and I'm actually not unhappy with that. I I've seem to have said AI as many times as Google in the last few minutes, but still this one seems to work. Um I have the least experience on the iPhone cuz actually the iPhone has some Apple intelligence stuff. I did a shortcut on there, the natural language shortcut, and that one was great. Others have been more problematic, but I'm still on the wait list for Siri AI. And I look at it and I think, well, I do like the icons.

[00:41:51]They have uh popped. I think it's faster, but whenever you install a new feature, it's still doing so much stuff in the background that it's slower than it's going to be. So, I'm not sure. Um, it hasn't crashed on me. Um, >> so this is basically going to flow into the AI talk because that's what this is.

[00:42:10]Um, iOS got some things that were interesting, but they are all because of the ondevice systems as well. So, just to mention a couple here and then we'll get into the AI portion of this.

[00:42:23]Um, the passwords app will tell you if a password is either cloned or compromised and then it can automatically go to the website, log in for you, change the password and update it without you doing anything. That is an agentic action.

[00:42:40]It's the only agentic action Apple announced during the keynote, >> but I think it's the first of many to come later. Um, do you trust this? Would you use this?

[00:42:51]>> Well, I presume it's also on the Mac as well. So, even though I'm waiting for it on the iPhone, I haven't let it rip. So, there is a bit of me that's cautious.

[00:43:01]But then I I should update my passwords more often. So, who am I least cautious about? Me or it? I don't know yet, but I like the idea.

[00:43:11]>> Presumably if it if it presumably if it tried to and it failed, it would just tell you it failed and then you'd have to do it manually. Um, where this is going to work is most major organizations use a specific template for passwords. And so, there's no reason why a robot shouldn't be able to do it because it already has your credentials saved and it's just going to log in and perform the action.

[00:43:33]Um, heck, there might even, >> this is one of those things where, uh, humans need user interfaces. Robots do not. So, there might even be a handshake that can be, that can happen that says, "Hey, I'm Apple's passwords assistant."

[00:43:50]>> And the website's like, "Oh, here's the UIS codebase that lets you just exchange a password uh token, >> right?"

[00:43:58]>> And then and it's done, right? Because I a lot of people were like, "Oh, well, it's going to have to go to the website and type type in your name and password and navigate a button. What if it doesn't get the right button? What if a cap patch is thrown up in its face or whatever?" I don't like maybe some it's going to do that in some places, but I have a feeling that there's going to be more technology to this than brute forcing it that way.

[00:44:22]>> Um, it'll be interesting.

[00:44:24]>> Uh, Beth Dacon, who always does the Safari stuff, was so convincing about it, I just totally believed her. I never thought of any of that stuff. Okay, this is another roller coaster. All right.

[00:44:34]Well, when >> when you're getting a call, so say I need to call and ask about my water bill because it's doubled in price since I moved and I'm not sure why. Uh it might be because of how they charge for water incoming and sewage outgoing. I something's broken. I don't know. Maybe it's not. And I'm just And now I'm just going to forever pay twice as much as I used to. I need to call my water company. Uh, and when I do, someone's going to say, "What's your account number?"

[00:45:05]Well, now in that phone call on the screen where the phone call is happening, Siri AI will display my account number that it surfaced from an email.

[00:45:19]>> If it works, fantastic. Um, >> theoretically, I mean, it's an easy data detector. There's no reason why it shouldn't work, but we'll we'll see.

[00:45:28]It's not something I've had a chance to test yet, if it's even in the beta. Um, what is in the beta is if someone mentions something in a iMessage conversation that could be added to a reminder, a note, or calendar, a button will appear below the message saying to do so.

[00:45:44]Right.

[00:45:47]This episode is brought to you by Scribe. when Wes and I swap editing roles on this podcast or actually more recently when I had to train my replacement on a charity's magazine as fast as she and actually as Wes are were uh it still took a lot of time of course it did and now I've left the charity that was doing that magazine so my replacement she has to train the next person and so on finding a replacement okay finding a successor making sure that the one person can do the job. Of course, it's essential and it it's actually it's often easy enough to find them. It's the time it takes to bring them up to speed that's the problem.

[00:46:29]It's knowledge that is locked into each person's head and how you keep that even when that person leaves. And this is exactly what Scribe is built to solve.

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[00:48:04]So that's s ibe.how h awful insider.

[00:48:10]s c r i b.hw/apple insider. And thank you to Scribe for supporting the Apple Insider podcast.

[00:48:21]We got a lot of child safety stuff in here. We're not going to get into that just yet. Maybe that'll be a whole separate episode. I have a lot to say there. Um, so let's get into the AI of it all. What do you how how are you feeling about this?

[00:48:37]>> We're remarkably happy.

[00:48:40]um when whatever I'm doing is something actually on my device. Uh I honestly thought I would have um difficulty getting used to the idea of Siri AI because I'm so used to the fact that you ask Siri to do something, it gets it wrong. You curse a bit, you ask it again, it gets it right, you sarcastically say thanks, and then you move on. Whereas this thing of being able to have a conversation or tell it to do a couple of things. I thought I wouldn't even think to do that. But um I have this thing that um there's a concert coming up that I booked more than a year ago cuz it was cancelled and rescheduled and it suddenly occurred to me. I don't remember when it is. Am I going to miss it? And often recently when I've been going to concerts he suddenly thought now are the tickets at the box office? Are they on in wallet on the phone? So I just asked Siri when am I going to see Dar Williams and where are the tickets? Uh, it took 30 seconds, but it found me the venue, links to it, details of the time, ticket numbers, and it surfaced the right email. And 30 seconds sounds a long time when I say it, but you know how long it takes to dig through emails to find anything.

[00:49:44]Compared to me looking, it found it straight away. And I thought that was that was super.

[00:49:49]>> And most of the time hooked.

[00:49:51]>> Yeah, >> you can leave a query and it's taking place in the background. You don't always have to sit there and stare at it and wait for it. Um the Siri app captures your queries and history. So >> which I think is immensely big on the Mac because on the Mac here I am typing away and I want to do something I have to stop press command twice and there's type to Siri and I do it and it gets it wrong and I can't do a follow-up and all this stuff. So basically never use Siri on the Mac. But now even in the last few days you know it's come up a lot. I'm going to a venue on Saturday to give a talk but I got to pick up something for somebody. So, I just asked it, tell me the route via this guy's house. And so, it did and things like that. It's starting to become part of my workflow on the Mac. And I never thought that would happen with Siri.

[00:50:37]>> What it is first before we get into the features >> cuz we mentioned this a little on the uh show, the post WWDC show. Um I didn't have the best language uh for it because I It's annoying. First off, Google names everything Gemini. So, it's hard to pull out exactly what you want to say there.

[00:50:59]Um, >> there is zero Gemini Assistant, Google search or Google agents of any kind in Apple intelligence, Apple Foundation models or Siri AI. Zero.

[00:51:18]And people got confused when I said this, so I I want to clarify.

[00:51:23]Google and Apple did partner to use Google's. Now, see, this is I've I've wanted to say it and then I've lost it again. So, I'm going to while I'm speaking uh figure it out again. Um, so there's >> over it.

[00:51:41]>> Yeah. I don't expect I'm I don't think I'm using Gemini when I use Apple intelligence, but uh Apple's paying a billion a year to Google and it informed its foundation model. So, it's not a traceree access, is it? So, >> okay. So, so it's it's complicated. Uh, I've I've lost the word again and it's annoying uh to me, but um there's Google Assistant or Gemini Assistant, which is the full name of the thing that exists in the Gemini app. When you interact with the Gemini app, you're interacting with Gemini Assistant. Then there's Gemini.

[00:52:22]There's a word for this. It's like it's not foundation but it's the main LLM the the whole guy right uh basically everything Google did to scrape the web and train its bots and whatever there is the main we'll say for simplicity sake foundation of >> okay >> um Google's AI work period it. And there's a good word for this. I I it's frustrating that I can't remember it. Um anyway, Google took that, gave Apple a version of it that would run on Apple silicon, one that could be tweaked by Apple as necessary as it developed its new model.

[00:53:12]So using this base Google technology, the Gemini technology, it was able to basically recode its own AI and then train it from the ground up using techniques like distillation to make it smarter and better. Um, and ultimately resulted in Apple intelligence, uh, the new Apple Foundation models.

[00:53:38]Now, that's the point I'm trying to make here.

[00:53:42]Google did build the technology that Apple used to make its new stuff. But the end result what the userfacing technology there is no Google there is no Google presence there is no Google servers there is no Google search there's nothing that you have to worry about privacy-wise ethical wise if you're a person like me who does not use Google properties I can use Google Apple's foundation models and not feel like I'm compromising my ideals of not using Google properties right because it is not in anymore in any case a Google technology, right?

[00:54:26]Google provided the foundational technologies. Apple is renting servers with Nvidia GPUs and and uh RAM and stuff to help run this in the cloud, but it's still private cloud compute. It's still Apple certified. What's running on your phone? There's four models now.

[00:54:40]There's two in the cloud, two on device, and uh I believe there's a fifth server specific model.

[00:54:46]Um, these are all Apple developed, Apple trained. They picked the weights. They picked how it makes decisions. But because it has all of that Google foundation to it, there will be times when you can ask it and Gemini Assistant the same question and get very similar answers because of how it's parsing the data, because of its base training base, right?

[00:55:10]>> But it is still not Google in any way, shape, or form. And I want to emphasize that because people are worried about privacy. They're like, "Oh, my data is going to go to Google or uh there's going to be some secret handshake in the future that allows it to go train Google." This is not chat GPT's deal where sometimes a Siri query quer Siri query would go to a chat GPT server.

[00:55:30]That is not what this is. And and it and it can't be and it won't be. The way Apple designed it is it is a deep system integration with Apple technology.

[00:55:39]Period.

[00:55:42]You seem to suggest that people might not tr choose to trust Google and I I can't figure out where you get that your face. Okay. All right.

[00:55:51]>> Mhm.

[00:55:53]>> Um there's a lot of problems with Google we don't have to get into here, but it it really is just one of those things where I I don't want to get into it a lot in the show because this would require its own controversy corner, but Google's doing its own thing. It's it's maddening um how terrible of a company it's become. Uh Microsoft Bing is bad. Like there's this whole Microsoft uh protest uh boycott uh because of its uh of how it's participating and aiding in the war uh in Gaza. Um and then >> on top of that like everyone's talking about this paid search engine um I forget the name of it. Kaggi I think >> but Kagi pulls result uh has like >> pays money to Kaperski which is the Russian outlet that helps like >> uh Russia >> media get a hold of like Russian targets government targets like and the money from Kogi is going to that like there's no good platform right now duck go uses Bing which is owned by Microsoft which is being boycotted right what do you do >> right >> pen and paper. Uh, Pokémon Go is selling all of its uh, data to United States um, drone manufacturers to so they can target their enemies without using GPS because of Pokémon Go.

[00:57:22]>> So, uh, there's some military commander somewhere who's asking Pikachu where it is in order to target their drone.

[00:57:31]>> And thinkingly, that's not Nintendo's fault. That's Niantic's fault. That's a whole different discussion. The point is is there's a lot of morally reprehensible things going on in the world. And Apple, funny enough, other than Tim Cook having to deal with Donald Trump and that's its own can of worms, Apple's doing pretty good on that front.

[00:57:50]And um I can honestly say that I trust Apple to not mess it up. And maybe John Turnis is gonna start using Max to kill people. I don't know. But uh right now Apple is pretty clean. And I like the fact that Siri AI is a search engine that doesn't use any of those search engines. Apple's Siri world knowledge is not Google search. I can just search the web with Siri AI and it get results and click a link and open a website. I haven't been doing it much.

[00:58:25]So my fallback is still duck.go out of everything. It's the least reprehensible, I guess. Um, so that's my default in Safari. So, if I need to get a link for an article I'm writing, I'm probably going to use duck.go. But I'm experimenting using Siri AI as a central search tool. And maybe it will slowly replace uh duck.go.

[00:58:47]>> And I can I can see that happening. It's just um I've said um I really like the new Siri as far as it goes. And I've kind of been a bit a bit a little bit uh hesitant of fully endorsing that sounds like they need my endorsement. You know what I mean? Fully backing how great Siri is because what's great is great, but what is not is not. And the thing that is not for me is this world knowledge things. Um, when I've tried it, I have had poorer results from uh, Siri AI than I have from say Claude AI, which I should say is sometimes a sponsor, but it gets me in a particular circumstance, it gets me reliable results and Siri totally failed. So, I felt the world knowledge is its weak spot at the moment.

[00:59:34]Yeah.

[00:59:35]>> I mean, so this is day one. That's what's crazy about this is >> I've I've I've had discussions with people about this already, and I agree.

[00:59:44]Siri AI is not the best AI. It's not the most powerful AI, but I think it's the best positioned.

[00:59:50]>> It's on my device. It knows everything about me and it's private about it. It's not sucking up that data. It's not training on that data. It's not selling that to advertisers and it never will as far as I know. And the minute that changes, I'll let you know, right? I don't see it changing >> completely. I used it uh just doing things like when did I last check in with my agent and so it told me and it's like useful stuff.

[01:00:15]>> We went off on a bend. But I I just I I I want to I just wanted to be clear to the listeners and who read my story.

[01:00:23]It's still there and it's correct as it's written because I I the the title is there's not a drop of Google in Apple intell in the new Apple Foundation models which is true. A drop of Gemini is what I said from the consumer standpoint. Gemini assistant there is none of it. No search, no Google, no nothing. But it they did use Google technology to build the foundations of it which I'm not denying. And even in the story I explain that but people can't read past headlines. So I just wanted to explain that here. Um, >> okay.

[01:00:56]>> So getting into what Siri AI can do it and these foundation models. Basically what's happening is what we described earlier. It's doing a full crawl of your device and learning everything about you and everything it can about your from your mail. Uh, everything that can be surfaced in spotlight search. So Deep's app search is all being categorized by Siri AI. Everything in your files app, everything that you've ever written in drafts, everything is being scraped and added to this context that the AI can pull from. So when you start typing, it has all of that information to pull from. And when it gives you an answer, it tells you everywhere it got that answer from and deep links it so you can click on it and go visit that information and verify that it's true.

[01:01:46]>> Right? I want to stop you there cuz you said about it being in spotlight and again spotlight on the Mac fantastically better than the separate typed Siri. It is what will make me use it more. It's where you are a lot of the times even though I don't use Spotlight. I use an alternative that keystroke is very familiar. Everything about it is great except I don't know if this is just a Mac thing but I was finding if I typed a question for it spotlight would first try to see is he looking for a document?

[01:02:14]is you look for an application and every now and again it will get stuck on that for it. And yet I have discovered >> Yeah, but who knows why this works or how I ever found it. If you type your question into Siri and then hold down the command key on your keyboard, it recognizes that you mean ask Siri. How did I come across that? I don't know.

[01:02:34]But since I've done that, it never fails. But >> I think indexing will help speed up those uh things. Um, we're as we speak, both all of our devices are still indexing the database. So, >> we'll have a whole episode to talk about what Siri AI can do. I've been testing it. Um, visual intelligence is interesting. I took a picture of my meal yesterday. We had uh macaroni and cheese with hot dogs in it. And um it's a very unhealthy meal, of course, >> which I wasn't going to say, but I did think it. Okay. Yeah.

[01:03:05]>> Well, Siri said so, too, because it said this was a popular meal during the Great Depression. So, um, thank you Siri for telling me that, uh, our very cheap and unhealthy dinner that it's just, you know, it's it called it a comfort food, which it is. Um, but yes, uh, it also just gave a nutritional details. It did not give me the ability to log it in Apple Health, which may come later, but so now, right now, food noms, you're safe. I can still log.

[01:03:33]>> Have you heard of uh deep fried Mars bars? It's mostly a Scottish thing, but it's a Mars barick in batter. Yes, I I might seek one out and see what happens for it, but I'd actually forgotten about that since my iPhone is still on the wait list. Good point. Okay.

[01:03:52]>> I asked it about the Apple TV when it released um and when when tvOS came out, researching information about the compatibility list for tvOS, which we can mention here. They're cutting off for the first time ever the TV Apple TV HD and Apple TV 4. The first time ever in TV's history is dropping support for two of the oldest models. One came out in 2015, one came out in 2017. But just like with Apple Watch, I'll mention here they'll continue to work and they will get security updates for another five or six years.

[01:04:28]When security updates end for the Apple TV HD, it will be over, I want to say 15 or 16 years old, >> right?

[01:04:36]>> We're going to be fine here, guys. It's the Netflix app is still going to work on your Apple TV HD if you're still using it in your gym or something.

[01:04:44]But so I asked it questions about that.

[01:04:46]It showed me where it got the information from. It allowed me to click those links, open them in Safari, read it for myself. It was all very accurate.

[01:04:54]I asked it the history and plot of Kingdom Hearts. I asked it very specific detailed questions that only the biggest nerds on earth would ever know or understand about that very very complex series. It got a 100% right all of the time and it showed me that it pulled from fandom and Wikipedia.

[01:05:11]This is a really interesting showing from Apple cuz normally even in the best chat GPT and cloud models you're going to run into a at least 30% rate of hallucination. Something somewhere is going to get wrong.

[01:05:24]>> Sure. I couldn't I couldn't find anything in these like information queries that were wrong because and it was what I think what was most interesting is it was pulling verbatim quotes from these uh locations not trying to summarize it itself and I think that is what's making the Siri AI so well done >> although that means not going to that original site not letting that site have your eyeballs and so >> this is a whole different discussion we're going to have to get into I agree with that problem from a pureformational standpoint. The point I'm trying to make is Siri AI is trustworthy and accurate.

[01:06:03]>> How that affects the web and human engineering and our ability to produce for the web. That's a whole different discussion. We're going to have to have it. I, you know, the listeners should know where I stand on this. It's a problem.

[01:06:16]Google has already ruined the web. I don't know how we're going to fix it.

[01:06:20]But if this is the world we have to be in of the choices we have, I think Siri AI is getting it right. Um, monetization wise, it's still destructive.

[01:06:30]>> We got to figure out how we're going to monetize the web in this world. If this is how we have to live, how are we monetizing? And that that is a discussion we're going to have to have as a society. And we will have in this podcast. But for now, functionally speaking, outside of those problems, it is really on point. I had one host. So, the the whole time I've been using it, I've asked it several different questions. We went and saw a musical the other day. It was called That's Broadway. Uh it was a choir production actually more than a musical. So, a choir was in the background singing in the front stage. Had a few dancers uh and uh lead singers would come out sometimes, but it was not a set, it was a choir production. And uh they did music from various Broadway shows across history. And one of the shows they represented was Cabernet. And they had a bunch of dancers come out dressed in very flashy clothing as per the play or the musical. And I took a photo of them posing at one point cuz photography was allowed, just not flash. Um, I sent that photo, no context, and said, "Hey, what musical is this representing?" And it told me Cabernet. And I asked what time and date was the photo taken? Cuz it was metadata. I knew I knew it could get that right. And it said this time to stay. I said or the time, day, location.

[01:07:46]And I said, "Okay, what was playing there at that time?" And it told me this and this playing at that time. It got everything right. It even listed the the notes of the musicals that they were referencing in it. The only thing it got wrong, and I understand why it got wrong because I went and checked, was the name of the musical That's Broadway. It gave some other name. And that's because nowhere in the text on the Facebook post it pulled it from was the name of the show. It was only visible in the media, the photo of the announcement of the play. So fair I but it did present it very confidently that that was the name of it and that was the one real big hallucination that I could find uh for Siri so far. But out of everything that I've thrown at it that it's interesting that that was the one thing it got wrong.

[01:08:40]Okay, I think you're wrong.

[01:08:41]>> Anything to do with numbers, >> and anything to do with numbers, it's going to get wrong. Math, how many days till, how many letters in the word salad, I don't know. Like, >> it just it can't count. Uh, anything to do with math, it just can't count.

[01:08:54]That's just AI, though. It's nondeterministic. It doesn't know numbers. It can't count.

[01:08:59]>> Anything else on Siri AI? We're going to have a whole episode on Siri AI, so this is more of a overview than a actual depth thing. Well, then this sounds like such a silly thing since I've been a bit a little bit sarcastic about the tiny tiny visual changes in Mac OS, but I really like the look of Siri AI on the Mac. Uh the smooth animation, the style of presentation for it. I quite enjoy calling it up and that's that's big. I thought I would miss the um rainbow curved stuff before, but you didn't have that on the Mac especially. You had it kind of in the corner and I'd never noticed it because I have such a wide monitor. By the time I realized type to Siri was up, it was almost gone. But I like the new look. So yeah, that's a deep analysis there on my part, but it's >> there's so much there's so much here.

[01:09:50]Literally like 300 things, individual features were announced that weren't mentioned on the keynote stage. Uh, HomeKit secure video is now in 4K. Um, the Home app has an upgrade with intelligence for detecting events that can and cameras that can tell you what's happening. And there's a silly thing in the keynote with a raccoon. Uh, we have >> Oh, yeah.

[01:10:14]>> Um, the ability to basically invoke uh visual intelligence anywhere using the screenshot tool. Um, there's photo editing tools, which we don't have time to get into today. Um, there's a lot that the leakers got wrong that just did not appear in this keynote that we're we're going to have to talk about separately. The pro camera app with widgets did not appear during this keynote. Um, everyone was wrong about Apple's involvement with Gemini. Uh, they said it was going to be a white label. They said it was going to have uh Gemini models running on iPhone. None of that was true. And I don't know why anyone ever thought that was true. I think that was pure supposition um because that was not what Apple said was happening and we now see confirmed what is happening and is not that. So there is a lot to discuss here. WWDC is only just finishing its week. We'll be back with so much more to get into. But first reach out to us. Tell us what you think of WWDC. Tell us what you think of the show.

[01:11:13]>> You can find me on blue skyhilly.te to talk to me there. Massedon hilly. You can email me wesappleinsider.com and also you can leave a review in Apple podcast where we will read it here every week. And this week we have two reviews I want to get through quickly.

[01:11:35]Uh let's see. I think it's Krishna Kant 26.

[01:11:40]Uh they gave us five stars. Will they call it the iPhone fold? Um they're skeptical they're going to call this an iPhone at all. Uh, I think it'll be an iPhone because that is Apple's strongest brand and they want this thing to sell.

[01:11:53]If they call it an iPad, as much as I would like that, >> I it's not going to sell as well. Uh, people Apple want people to use it as their main device, which one of the features in iOS 27 is the ability to use the same number across two devices. I think that is an iPhone fold specific feature. Um, >> okay.

[01:12:14]It'll be interesting to see how this goes. But yes, that is basically what they're asking. How is Apple going to convince people to buy this thing? I don't know. I I still there's still no leaks. We haven't even seen the thing.

[01:12:25]Um there's code suggesting Apple is working on it. IO iOS 27 mention well this is the thing. It mentions folding angle and multiple displays in iOS 27.

[01:12:36]And you can resize your windows from uh in iPad OS to to make iPhone apps wide.

[01:12:42]Yes, I've never denied that this thing exists. The iPhone Fold is in development. My question is is it going to be ready to release in the fall? Is Apple going to bother releasing it at all um because of all these delays?

[01:12:56]We'll find out together, but there still hasn't been any leaks of products.

[01:13:01]F uh let's see, you guys have such excellent names. I have to really read them. Fantastic Faz 15, four stars.

[01:13:11]Um, they said they're going off of the Wesley talks too much one. Uh, someone mentioned that they liked hearing William. Uh, they they're assuming because they have like the British accent. Let's go British.

[01:13:22]>> Oh, I thought I was special, but no.

[01:13:26]>> Well, okay. Well, so they have a specific question for you.

[01:13:30]>> All right. Okay.

[01:13:31]>> Are are you bothered by the fact that it's English only for Siri and not localized in British English?

[01:13:39]Yes, I was actually much more concerned when Siri not no um no when Apple Intelligence first came out. I even started trying to there was a limit and I was trying to switch all of my devices to American to get it to work so I could write about it and it's amazing the difference. You lot in America you have um 12hour clock and it has AM and PM behind it. What's the matter with you all? I don't know. And just countless things kept coming up like that. So uh when it came back to being British English, I was happy. This time round I'm aware of the differences. Um, and I'll be happy when it's properly localized. But, you know, the voices I've been hearing, the British voices sound good to me.

[01:14:17]>> I was going to say, >> yeah, >> the new voice as we're closing up. What do you think of the voice?

[01:14:24]>> I've only heard it on the presentations.

[01:14:26]I mean, where was it? An example I saw.

[01:14:29]I haven't been able to get it on the phone yet uh because I'm still on the wait list, all that stuff. Uh but uh one of them I couldn't tell the difference.

[01:14:37]Another one I thought, "Yeah, I'll have that."

[01:14:40]>> It's a little bit stunning. I have it on mine and I turned it on. I can't you can't adjust the speed and tone yet um in the beta, but you can turn on the voice, male or female sounding. Um yeah.

[01:14:54]Wow. Just every single time it speaks, I'm just like, "This is incred." And I know voice to text engines have gotten way better. I know Claude and whatever.

[01:15:03]Everybody opened AI, made their voices sound like Samuel L. Jackson a long time ago. Whatever. I get it. They they did it first. Still, just like with Siri AI not being the best, it's the one on my phone. It's the one I'm going to use.

[01:15:16]And man, is it good.

[01:15:17]>> William, where can people find you?

[01:15:18]>> All right. Uh, staring at my own phone waiting for the weight list to come through. Uh, but while I'm there, I'll be at williamandappleinsider.com and then as ever on YouTube at 58 keys where at the moment I'm looking at WWDC specifically from a writer's perspective. And that's quite interesting because there's actually surprisingly little say, but I didn't tell you that. Go find out for yourself on YouTube.

[01:15:42]>> Yes, definitely give it a watch. Um, of course, I'd like to thank our sponsors once again, Nordstellar, and Scribe AI.

[01:15:50]And if you don't want to hear about sponsors, as always, you can subscribe to Apple Insider Plus where you're going to get an ad free extended edition of the show. Our bonus topic this week is going to be about the betas, installing them, using them, living with them. And I will say we're fully aware that the video roll out has affected some of uh the premiumness of the premium show. I don't think it's in video on Apple Podcast still, which is frustrating for those who want to see us but are subscribed and therefore can't see us because they have to go listen to the ad version of the show. I I don't know what to tell you. This is an this is a purely Apple problem. We have to wait on them to fix it. Um, but we do appreciate you for subscribing. I will say if you want the premium version of the show and Apple podcast is frustrating you, you can go to Patreon and subscribe to the Patreon version and you get the video there in in premium ad free quality. Um you can also while subscribed to Patreon use the RSS feed it gives you and add it to Apple Podcast. So if you want the audio version still in Apple Podcast you can go there use the Patreon version to reference the video. It's a It's a workaround, but we're waiting on Apple to get all this fixed. It seems in iOS 27, funny enough, Apple is addressing some of these things. Uh chapters are coming to video podcast, for example.

[01:17:12]So, they're actively working on this.

[01:17:15]We're doing what we can. I'm glad that you guys are excited about video, but honestly, it's a podcast. We are still audio first. We're not out here waving our hands or holding up pom poms or anything. Um, so >> well I my nose once but you know that's >> that's for the only fans version. Yeah.

[01:17:34]>> Yeah. So so I will say you're not missing anything.

[01:17:37]>> Okay.

[01:17:39]>> But u myself. Yeah.

[01:17:42]>> Yeah. So in any case um thank you for listening. Thank you for being there for supporting us. Everyone thank you for listening. You listening at all is supporting our show. You don't have to be a paid member to support us. So, uh, as always, reach out, let us know what you think, give us topics for the post show, talk to us. We love hear from you, of course. And we will be back again next week to talk about more Beta Madness.