Christian Counters By Hadith On Ransom Backfired! Hashim | Speakers Corner

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[00:00:00]You consider that to be injustice?

[00:00:01]>> So, can you explain this to me?

[00:00:02]>> No, no, before we explain anything, because you would consider it injustice, do you agree?

[00:00:06]>> Yeah.

[00:00:07]>> Good. Now, you see God, he's the judge of all the judges. He's the most just.

[00:00:11]If you cannot find justice in this scenario, how do you expect the most high >> Yeah.

[00:00:16]>> to be just to Jesus Christ, who's completely innocent, >> Yeah.

[00:00:20]>> and planned his murder >> Yeah.

[00:00:22]>> at the hands of his enemies. So, how is that justice? Now, please explain that part.

[00:00:26]>> something you got wrong.

[00:00:27]>> Yeah, go. Good.

[00:00:28]>> So, can I ask you about this >> No, no, just answer this question and then you can >> It's wrong to say that part.

[00:00:32]>> Okay, good. Yeah.

[00:00:34]>> So, you you asked me about the the informant for cinema, Jesus is fine, right?

[00:00:37]I get what you're saying.

[00:00:39]Um >> So, is it justice from God? That's the question.

[00:00:41]>> what you're saying.

[00:00:42]>> I hope you can answer that part.

[00:00:43]>> If I was the judge, would it be just?

[00:00:45]>> No, no, I You've already answered that question. I'm asking the question about God Almighty.

[00:00:48]>> reiterating.

[00:00:49]>> Yeah, so if God Almighty, he's a better judge than you and any judges on the earth, would he make such such a mistake and such injustice by declaring his own, um, servant, who is righteous, like Jesus Christ, who is without sin, is it just for him, Almighty God, to plan the killing of this innocent man in order that other murderers, rapists, and sinners can be forgiven?

[00:01:15]>> for sin, it can't go unpunished, and Jesus took the punishment for the sin. So, like this is what I want to ask you.

[00:01:21]>> Yeah, but is that just? That's the question.

[00:01:22]>> one second.

[00:01:23]>> Okay.

[00:01:23]>> why I asked you about the when when in Islam, when Muhammad says that on the day of judgment Allah will deliver to every Muslim a Christian or a Jew, and he will say, "This is your ransom from the hellfire."

[00:01:34]Is it ransom or payment?

[00:01:35]>> Have you actually read that hadith?

[00:01:37]I think it's hearsay what you're just saying. You haven't read the full hadith, have you? What does the full hadith say?

[00:01:41]>> So, it it says on the day of judgment Yeah.

[00:01:43]that Allah will deliver to every Muslim a Christian or a Jew, and he will say, "This will be your ransom from >> No, no, that's >> The narration says he will take the sins of the Muslim >> No, that's not true. You haven't read the hadith. And I can say for sure that you are just going based on hearsay.

[00:01:56]First and foremost, on the day of judgement Allah has already decreed that these people Hear me out. You are you are you are you are not listening. You need to listen.

[00:02:03]>> because I really sure that I really >> You're pretty sure you heard from someone. Okay, which hadith is it?

[00:02:08]>> I don't know.

[00:02:09]>> Exactly. So, bring up the hadith and then we can because I know for sure that on the day of judgement Allah has already judged for the Christians and Jews to be in hellfire because of their own sins.

[00:02:21]It is not because of the sins that were put on them. Allah has already made the judgement because in the Quran Allah says the only religion he will accept is Al-Islam. Jews and Christians are not following Islam. Do you agree? They don't follow the Quran. They reject the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and they reject Allah when they fall for the trinity. So, what I'm saying is that Allah has already declared that these people will go to hellfire based basically for their own sins that they have committed. Not because of some Muslims or something like that. However, there are many Christians who go about in their missionary work using deception to bring people to that faith of Christianity through deception. So, Allah is now going to use that deed of their in this dunya and put their sins put the sins that the Muslims had accumulated who might have fallen for that deception on them in that case.

[00:03:12]So, there are there are many ways to look at this hadith but But Allah doesn't take Allah doesn't take anybody's sins.

[00:03:19]What's that?

[00:03:22]The hadith you have said is actually only half of what you what is actually hadith.

[00:03:28]Did you hear anything I said at all?

[00:03:31]Okay, why did the Jews and Christians why were they destined for hellfire in the first place?

[00:03:36]>> I'm only trying to ask you. I'm not trying to fight you or anything.

[00:03:38]>> It's not about fighting. It's about whether you're listening to what I'm saying.

[00:03:41]Did you listen to anything I said at all?

[00:03:43]>> You're speaking very fast. It's hard to listen.

[00:03:45]>> Bro, come on. Seriously.

[00:03:48]He understood. Why can't you under It's your native language.

[00:03:51]So, that's not his language but he understood it. You did not.

[00:03:54]>> Why is that?

[00:03:55]>> Cuz you're not listening. You're thinking of the next question to ask.

[00:03:59]Brother, God has given us two ears for a reason and one mouth.

[00:04:02]All right? So, so when you ask when you're engaging with someone, at least have the courtesy to listen.

[00:04:08]>> Right, okay. So, does does >> So, do you agree do you agree that the reason Listen, listen.

[00:04:13]>> Can you educate me on >> Yeah, I was actually, but you're not listening. That's the problem.

[00:04:16]>> So, go ahead. Tell me >> Okay, the reason the Jews and Christians will go to hellfire is basically because of their own sins.

[00:04:22]>> No, does the Hadith say >> Oh my god, once again, he's not listening.

[00:04:26]>> That's >> What did I just say? What did What did I just say?

[00:04:29]>> A Jew or Christian and say listen.

[00:04:30]>> No, no, hold on. What did I just say to you?

[00:04:31]>> Answer my question.

[00:04:32]>> You see, you're not listening again.

[00:04:34]What's that?

[00:04:35]>> Does the Hadith say that?

[00:04:36]>> Say what to me? Yeah? Yeah, I'm a Muslim.

[00:04:38]>> You don't even know what I'm talking about.

[00:04:39]>> I know what you I know what you're talking about and that's why I'm correcting you, but you're not listening.

[00:04:43]>> So, you don't know your own religion.

[00:04:44]>> I've said it second time now. You're not listening.

[00:04:46]>> So, what does the Hadith say?

[00:04:47]>> The Hadith says that the reason >> Hadith >> I don't know word for word. Okay, I wouldn't memorize it, but I know for certain that Allah says this on the day of judgement.

[00:04:56]Whereas Jesus Christ on earth taking your sins, right?

[00:04:59]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:00]>> Yeah, you're a Christian. I know you're a Christian.

[00:05:01]>> I'm not really >> You really are a Christian. Cuz you believe in the crucifixion? Do you believe Jesus is God?

[00:05:08]>> Not not not per se, but >> What do you mean per se? Is he God or not?

[00:05:12]>> I'm kind of Like I said at the start, I'm kind of in between.

[00:05:14]>> No, I think you I think you are a Christian.

[00:05:16]>> I believe Jesus is a spirit of God. He's a spirit He's a spirit from God.

[00:05:19]>> Yeah, but is he God?

[00:05:21]>> He's a God.

[00:05:23]>> Is he God in any in any in any circumstance in any context?

[00:05:27]>> He has the nature of God >> So, when somebody has a nature of God, are they God or not?

[00:05:32]>> He's not God the Father. He's the son.

[00:05:33]>> I didn't say he was God the Father. Is he God in any context?

[00:05:36]>> He's the Lord. He's been given authority.

[00:05:38]>> So, why didn't you just say he's God then instead of beating around the bush?

[00:05:41]You are a Christian. Admit it.

[00:05:42]>> Yeah.

[00:05:42]>> Don't use deception.

[00:05:44]>> Well, I'm I'm I'm teaching I'm teaching like >> No, brother, you are a Christian.

[00:05:49]You're just trying to You're just trying to play this game with me somehow.

[00:05:54]It doesn't matter. I have the Bhagavad Gita. Doesn't mean I'm a Hindu?

[00:05:58]Where Where are you getting your logic from? So, you're a Christian. I would I would actually respect you more if you were truthful and honest and sincere.

[00:06:07]Good. So, if you're a Christian, say so.

[00:06:09]Stop playing this game. I have both books. So, I'm I'm leaning towards one or both. I'm not certain. How did you start the conversation?

[00:06:17]No, that's how you started the conversation through using deception.

[00:06:20]Don't use deception. It goes against your own faith.

[00:06:25]No, it can't be truth in both because the Quran says Jesus is not God. The Quran says Jesus is a Messiah and is a messenger and he's not the son of God.

[00:06:35]Good. You as a Christian believe he's the son of God and he's God, right?

[00:06:40]Of course not. He can't be literally. It has to be spiritually. Okay.

[00:06:46]So, why do you actually believe he's God?

[00:06:48]No, but you know when somebody uses deception and they lie, I think you are.

[00:06:52]Initially, when you came and said that you you're you're looking at both when you actually are a Christian.

[00:07:00]You see, you're you can't even look me in the eye and say I'm a Christian.

[00:07:04]What I mean? Seriously, you don't know what a Christian all of a sudden?

[00:07:09]You forgot English and Christianity.

[00:07:13]Okay. Once again, when you say Jesus is Lord, what do you mean by that?

[00:07:19]When you actually claim Jesus is Lord, what do you mean by that?

[00:07:26]Say again.

[00:07:29]Teacher and Lord. Where does it say you're teacher and Lord?

[00:07:34]Where?

[00:07:36]Where?

[00:07:39]Yeah.

[00:07:40]In In fact, Jesus says the only true God is the Father."

[00:07:43]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:44]>> So, he can't he can't Jesus cannot lie.

[00:07:46]>> Doesn't he claim that he the Father is in him then as well, doesn't he?

[00:07:49]>> Say again?

[00:07:49]>> Doesn't he claim that the Father is in him as well, then?

[00:07:52]>> The Father is?

[00:07:52]>> In him.

[00:07:53]>> In him?

[00:07:54]>> Doesn't he say that?

[00:07:54]>> Yeah, but he also says the disciples are in him.

[00:07:58]He says in John 17:22, "Just like you are you are in me and I am in you, so the disciples are in Okay, and we are one.

[00:08:06]>> Yeah.

[00:08:07]>> So, this is a symbolic way of saying we all have the same purpose. It doesn't mean like one is in the other literally.

[00:08:13]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:14]>> Okay? So, when Jesus is himself saying very clearly, unambiguously, in John chapter 17 verse 3, that this is eternal life that they may know you, the Father, the only true God, >> Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:25]>> and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. So, you see he identifies two different persons here. One is the Father, and he identifies the Father as the only true God, and he identifies himself as the Christ.

[00:08:36]No, no.

[00:08:38]What do you understand by that? When he identifies the Father as the only true God, what what what does he mean by that?

[00:08:45]Can there be any other God besides the Father?

[00:08:46]>> No.

[00:08:47]>> Good. So, Jesus cannot be God.

[00:08:49]So, do you agree that Jesus cannot be God?

[00:08:52]>> That may be true.

[00:08:53]>> What do you mean, "may be true"?

[00:08:55]It's absolutely true from the statement of Jesus, not maybe.

[00:08:59]Absolutely.

[00:09:02]And that's why I'm saying you're a Christian. You just can't expect that Jesus cannot be God. You have to include him in the Trinity.

[00:09:10]>> See, I'm not actually got that wrong. I'm not really a Christian.

[00:09:13]>> I think I think I I think I'm absolutely right.

[00:09:15]>> That's why I wanted to speak to you.

[00:09:16]That's all.

[00:09:17]>> Okay, so once again, is Jesus God in any way, shape, or form?

[00:09:20]>> Well, see, he's the Lord, but he may not be God himself.

[00:09:23]>> What is the difference between Lord and God in this context?

[00:09:25]>> He has the authority to be the Lord, to govern, right? But he may not be God himself.

[00:09:27]>> He said, "My kingdom is not of this earth." He's not governing anything.

[00:09:31]So, what is he governing?

[00:09:32]>> Um >> Nothing.

[00:09:34]>> Jesus. He is governing what?

[00:09:36]>> No, no, I'm saying world This kingdom is not Sorry, this world is not of my kingdom."

[00:09:43]Which means that he's not governing the world. You know who is governing the world according to the Bible?

[00:09:47]>> Yeah.

[00:09:47]>> Who?

[00:09:49]>> Well, God.

[00:09:50]>> Did I ask you?

[00:09:51]Good. I'm asking the Christian gentleman that. According to the Bible, who is governing the world?

[00:09:58]Who is the god of the world?

[00:10:00]>> Well, it's God. God the Father.

[00:10:01]>> He gave you a hint already. I thought you were listening.

[00:10:05]Satan.

[00:10:06]>> Satan what?

[00:10:07]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:10:09]Second Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4.

[00:10:13]>> And tell me what does it say?

[00:10:14]>> It says, "Satan is the god of the world."

[00:10:19]And Jesus said he this This world is not from his kingdom, which means he's is not governing the world. But according to the Bible, it is Satan. Yes?

[00:10:29]In the Quran, in the Quran, who is governing both the heavens and the earth?

[00:10:34]>> Allah.

[00:10:35]>> Allah. You see how how easy that is to understand?

[00:10:39]In the Quran >> This is what I'm asking you before. Like I'm trying to work things out.

[00:10:42]>> No problem.

[00:10:43]>> I'm not here to >> In In the Bible, Jesus is cursed. Are you aware of that?

[00:10:48]>> Uh no.

[00:10:49]>> Galatians chapter 3 verse 13. He became a curse for us.

[00:10:53]Then Paul says, "For it is written that anyone who hangs on a tree is cursed."

[00:10:58]When he says, "For it is written," he's referring to the Old Testament.

[00:11:01]Old Testament, if you go and look in Deuteronomy chapter 21, verse 23, it says, "Anyone who hangs on a tree is cursed is under God's curse." So, according to Paul, Jesus is under God's curse.

[00:11:14]Do you agree with that?

[00:11:16]No?

[00:11:17]>> even know that.

[00:11:18]>> Guess who is cursed in the Quran.

[00:11:20]>> Satan.

[00:11:21]>> Very good. Yes?

[00:11:23]Guess who is blessed by Allah in the Quran. Jesus and Mary.

[00:11:28]Now, you tell me which book is actually inspired by Satan.

[00:11:32]Obviously the Bible, yeah? Cuz the The Bible is By the way, the Bible is the only book which considers Jesus as God, and the Bible is also the only book which considers Jesus as a cursed by God.

[00:11:42]Look at the absurdity.

[00:11:45]Yeah, but you look into I gave you the passage. Uh Galatians chapter 3 verse 13 and Deuteronomy 21:23.

[00:11:51]It's not about fighting, my friend. Like I said, I respect people who are genuine and sincere. If you're here to understand in in an objective way, in a sincere way, then I'll respect you. But you know Uh he says he's he's studied the Quran and the Bible.

[00:12:08]>> You have Muslim friends?

[00:12:09]You have Muslim friends?

[00:12:10]>> Um not really.

[00:12:12]But I know a Muslim, right? But >> Yeah.

[00:12:14]Yeah. I mean, so Hashim has given you a good demonstration of why Jesus cannot be God.

[00:12:21]I mean, it's obvious, right?

[00:12:24]So look at the consistency of the message as well of Islam. The consistency of the message is as follows, right?

[00:12:29]You believe in God, right?

[00:12:31]>> Yeah.

[00:12:31]>> You worship God?

[00:12:32]>> Yeah.

[00:12:33]>> Right?

[00:12:35]So the purpose of all human beings is to worship God.

[00:12:39]That's the be-all and end-all of it, all right?

[00:12:41]So if God sends his prophets and messengers, the most important thing he's going to teach mankind is what?

[00:12:49]Knowledge of him, right?

[00:12:51]Cuz that's the be-all be-all and end-all of it. We're going to die, we're going to be judged, right? And we got to get it We got to get it right with God before we get it right with our neighbor or a mom or a dad or a cat or a dog, right?

[00:13:04]So look, the consistency of the message is also very important. The Muslims, we believe as God says in the Quran that we sent to every nation a messenger ordering, "Worship God alone and do not associate any partners in his worship."

[00:13:19]>> I agree with that.

[00:13:19]>> You agree with that, right?

[00:13:21]So look at the message of Islam.

[00:13:24]Yes, exactly.

[00:13:28]Also also Jesus, you know, when he was on earth, yeah, he was obviously he wasn't an atheist, right?

[00:13:34]Obviously. So, he was praying and worshipping. Who was he praying and worshipping?

[00:13:38]Exactly.

[00:13:39]And father and and the father is how many persons?

[00:13:42]One person. So, why do the Christians worship the trinity?

[00:13:52]Well, hopefully you know, you recognize Why does he need a three forms?

[00:14:07]Why do you think God needs a son?

[00:14:09]Does he does he actually have a need for a son?

[00:14:18]Yeah. Like you can you can call him and you're meant you can use the term son, that's fine.

[00:14:25]But but you see when when the Christians start worshipping a triune God, then they include Jesus within that and that is what we call shirk, which is of the highest grade of sins. You know, that's a that's the greatest sin you can commit.

[00:14:39]Yeah, because you're associating partners with the almighty.

[00:14:41]>> And in fact, if you die upon shirk, it's in in the in Arabic it's known as shirk.

[00:14:45]If you die upon that, you're you're entering hellfire. There's no ifs or buts. And the truth of God is not something that you require PhD in.

[00:14:53]It's so simple that some of our scholars have said that even the the dim-witted amongst mankind will be able to understand it.

[00:15:01]So, that's the piercing nature of God's truth. So, what's your name by the way?

[00:15:05]Michael. Hamza.

[00:15:07]This is Hashim.

[00:15:09]So, Michael, look.

[00:15:11]You have on one hand the falsehood of Christianity, right? You have the truth of Islam and Islam is the religion of all the prophets and messengers, right? What does it mean? What is a Muslim? You know what it means?

[00:15:24]>> Everyone who submits himself to one true God.

[00:15:26]>> Precisely. And that's precisely what Jesus is made to say in the Bible.

[00:15:29]Right? So, Jesus is a Muslim. Abraham was a Muslim. His two sons, Isaac and Ishmael, are Muslims. Even in Genesis, right? Chapter 17 and chapter 21, God is made to say that he's going to bless both the seeds of Ishmael. Both Isaac and Sorry, both the seeds of Abraham. Both I Ishmael and Isaac.

[00:15:50]But he says of Ishmael one thing that he doesn't say of Isaac. You know what he says? That he's going to make Ishmael's seed a great nation.

[00:15:58]Now, ask yourself this. God's all knowledgeable, right?

[00:16:00]>> Right, yeah.

[00:16:01]>> Right. Why would he call a seed that he knows is going to turn out to be idol worshipers somewhere down the line?

[00:16:08]Why would he say that they are going to be a great nation, full stop?

[00:16:14]The The only way we can make sense of that is if we recognize that the man who arose, the only man in history who arose from the line of Ishmael, claiming to be a prophet of God, is as he claimed to be. Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

[00:16:29]>> And that's when the prophecy came true, after his advent. You see, before the Ishmaelites, they were basically dwellers in the desert, which people barely knew about.

[00:16:38]>> that's what I said to him before. Can you see how like what I was saying? Like my ideas don't necessarily align with like traditional Christianity. But like I don't know if the Trinity is true or not. Very well may not be. Jesus may be created, actually. May not be. I don't know.

[00:16:48]>> It's not maybe.

[00:16:50]>> I'm asking you.

[00:16:50]>> Yeah.

[00:16:51]>> Brother, it's not maybe. Jesus is a creation of God.

[00:16:54]Even though the you know the the Quran clearly says uh that the example of Jesus is like that of Adam. You know, if Allah If If You know, Allah created Adam from from dust, and he said, "Be." And he became.

[00:17:07]>> See, I could believe that.

[00:17:08]>> miraculous >> But then when you read the Gospels and as well, you read like it would appear that Jesus claimed preexistence. Now, that doesn't mean he's eternal, but it means So have existed before time, the beginning of the universe.

[00:17:17]>> So we've all existed >> I think the Bible says he's the firstborn of all creation.

[00:17:20]>> Could have been created as well. That's what I thought, like he could have been the spirit of God.

[00:17:22]>> How can he be firstborn if he's before time?

[00:17:25]>> sense, in a spiritual way.

[00:17:26]>> Yeah, but you see a spiritual sense is not what we are looking at here.

[00:17:29]Spiritual sense, we all existed before we we had a body. Yeah? In Islam, we believe the same thing. We are from the loins of Adam.

[00:17:38]From where from where we all came.

[00:17:39]>> Do you believe you are?

[00:17:40]>> That from the loins, that means we are all we are we are all the progeny of Adam.

[00:17:44]>> Do you say he is?

[00:17:45]>> Yeah, yeah. We We as We Muslims believe that we existed before we born in this world.

[00:17:50]As as Yeah, as as spirit.

[00:17:53]>> We have a We have a tradition from the Prophet Muhammad where he said that Allah took from the back of Adam all of his children. And he made them testify. "Am I not your Lord?" "Am I not your Lord?" And we said Michael Michael, just 1 second. And we we testified and said "Bala." Yes, "Shahidna." We testify.

[00:18:10]>> Yeah.

[00:18:11]>> So in God's knowledge, before the world began, he took the children of Adam and made them testify. So if you mean by Jesus pre-existing before the world began in God's knowledge, then we all existed at time.

[00:18:24]God knew all of us.

[00:18:25]In fact, we have a tradition from the Prophet Muhammad where he said that Allah he looked into the hearts of mankind and he found the best of the hearts to be Prophet Muhammad's.

[00:18:36]And then he looked at the people and he found that the best of the hearts were the companions of Prophet Muhammad.

[00:18:42]So for the Muslims, Michael we believe that Jesus only came to the children of Israel.

[00:18:51]Just like Moses only came to the children of Israel, right?

[00:18:53]>> Yes.

[00:18:53]>> And even in the Bible Jesus is made to say, he hints at the fact that there's going to be someone who's going to come after him.

[00:19:02]Have you read this?

[00:19:03]>> Is that the comforter you're talking of?

[00:19:04]>> Yes.

[00:19:05]>> Yeah.

[00:19:05]>> Look what Jesus says.

[00:19:07]Yeah, I mean, but you can read into it and you can come to the conclusion that Jesus says >> I think the Christians say it's the spirit or whatever.

[00:19:13]>> yeah.

[00:19:13]>> But you we know that the spirit it can't be the third person of the Trinity because the Trinity is made up.

[00:19:18]>> Yeah.

[00:19:19]>> It was invented. There's not a hint of it in the Bible. There used to be in first epistle of John chapter 5 verse 7, right? That there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and these three are one. They found that that was an interpretation, it was a fabrication, they they threw it out, right?

[00:19:33]Thereafter, there's nothing there's not a hint of the Trinity in the Bible.

[00:19:36]So the point here is as follows, that Jesus says to them that I have yet many things to say unto thee, but you can't bear them now, right? Yeah.

[00:19:46]So we believe that this is a prophet who will come and this is the one who will bring all truth.

[00:19:52]Now the Christians don't have all truth.

[00:19:53]If you ask a Christian for instance, what will happen to the soul when a person dies?

[00:20:01]>> I >> As soon as you die, do you know what's going to happen to your soul according to the Bible?

[00:20:04]>> Well, that depends. I don't know. If you're a Catholic, you might say it's going to go into purgatory or something like that. You might not go to heaven straight away or I don't know exactly.

[00:20:11]>> so what >> it depends like which which denomination you're from.

[00:20:14]>> Right. So in other words, what you don't have is how the soul is extracted. What will happen to the soul when it's in the grave? What will happen to the soul between the point when it dies and when it's resurrected? What will happen to the soul when it's resurrected? Islam through Prophet Muhammad he gave you all the answers because Michael, you and I we believe in the hereafter, right?

[00:20:35]>> Yeah.

[00:20:35]>> We believe in the day of judgment?

[00:20:37]We want satisfactory answers to that, don't we?

[00:20:39]>> Yep.

[00:20:41]>> So the Prophet Muhammad he told us.

[00:20:42]>> Can I ask you a question, right?

[00:20:44]>> Just just step here a bit here. Just one.

[00:20:46]>> Yeah, go on.

[00:20:47]>> So um It's very good while I actually ask you a question, right?

[00:20:52]What do you say about those texts then?

[00:20:53]The Christian texts. Why you why are they not what Well, if that's all we have from that time period, how do you discern that they're not true?

[00:21:00]>> Let's let's put it this way. Look, the the the belief yeah, the belief in this Jesus being God, the Holy Spirit being God, all this, it came like 350 years after Jesus.

[00:21:10]>> No, just the text, like how do you know, like how do you know that they're not true?

[00:21:14]>> Yeah, even the text, the the the canonization didn't take place until the 4th century.

[00:21:19]>> Well, not even the canon, even just the gospels themselves, how do you discern that they're not true? How do you know that?

[00:21:23]>> Because we don't know who wrote them.

[00:21:25]>> That doesn't mean it's not true.

[00:21:26]>> Of course.

[00:21:27]>> That doesn't >> So, we don't have the original language, we don't know who wrote them, we don't know what Jesus explicitly stated.

[00:21:33]>> Listen, that doesn't mean it's not true.

[00:21:34]>> Okay, let me ask you something. If you found any book >> That's what you think, though. That's the reason why you don't believe they are true, isn't >> No, no, there are many things, there are many contradictions in the Bible, for example, all right?

[00:21:43]>> No, I'm not talking about just I just mean, like what do you think, like >> I've given you like three different >> That the story isn't true.

[00:21:49]>> I've given you three different answers.

[00:21:51]>> Because you want to answer the language.

[00:21:52]>> And no, no, that is one of them. Because Okay, so let me ask you something. What we talked about today, if it gets translated into another language, how do you know that person translated exactly as what he's saying?

[00:22:04]You see what I mean? How important it is to get the language right. You You heard of the statement which says which goes like the phrase lost in translation. Because many people, when they translate, they miss out many things. Because maybe there is not there's not the exact words.

[00:22:20]Yeah, but this is the problem. What if is an assumption?

[00:22:23]So, if you don't have the exact uh message of Jesus, the way he preached it, then >> that that's not the message?

[00:22:30]>> Well, this is exactly what I'm telling I've given you three two three different points. Number one, number one, you don't have the original language.

[00:22:38]>> That doesn't mean it's not true.

[00:22:39]>> Bro, I just gave you why it's not true.

[00:22:40]>> It doesn't mean it's not true.

[00:22:41]>> Okay, what did I say? Let's see if you Let's see if you remember.

[00:22:43]>> Just because it's not in the original language, doesn't mean >> So, how do you know what Jesus said?

[00:22:46]>> Yes. Just because if someone says something and it's translated into a different >> Yeah, how do you know they translated accurately? No, no, how do you know that?

[00:22:52]>> I don't.

[00:22:53]>> Exactly.

[00:22:54]>> But that doesn't mean still doesn't mean it's not true because I don't >> But if you don't know, then who knows?

[00:22:58]>> You know, I'm not a religious scholar, but it doesn't mean it's not true.

[00:23:01]>> No, no, it's logic, brother.

[00:23:02]>> You're just saying it's nonsense.

[00:23:03]>> It's logic It's logic. If you don't have the manuscripts from the first century, so you got a gap of 100 years already.

[00:23:09]Even the written word in Greek, you don't have that.

[00:23:11]You see what I mean?

[00:23:12]What was the language of Jesus he preached in?

[00:23:15]>> They say Aramaic.

[00:23:15]>> Aramaic, yeah. You have nothing for the first two to two to 300 years in Aramaic. So, it came later on. Even the Greek, like I said, you got a gap of 100 years, and that is I'm talking only about the the fragments. The fragments came later on.

[00:23:29]>> I don't I don't buy that. Firstly, cuz like I just think just cuz there's a gap doesn't mean that's not true. Like I don't I don't see that.

[00:23:35]>> So, how how will you fill the gap?

[00:23:36]>> You know Yes, you know what I'm saying?

[00:23:37]>> The issue How will you fill the gap?

[00:23:39]>> Yeah. Well, just because there's a gap doesn't mean it's not true.

[00:23:42]>> No, no, but how will you fill the gap?

[00:23:43]Where did the Where did the information come from?

[00:23:45]>> 2,000 years ago. That's it's Say again?

[00:23:47]It's 2,000 years ago, like so somebody took the law but >> No, no, I'm not saying the texts are 2,000 years old. I'm saying the For example, Dr. Bart Ehrman, he actually studied He's he's a scholar of the New Testament. And he knows exactly like how the how how it's being preserved. He said there are as many variations in the New Testament as there are words in the New Testament.

[00:24:12]>> Variations of what?

[00:24:13]>> Variations in the manuscript evidence that they have.

[00:24:16]>> Like what?

[00:24:17]>> Like for example, the ending of Mark 16.

[00:24:20]Some of them have the short ending, some have like a middle ending, some have a long ending. Which one is the true one?

[00:24:26]>> Yeah.

[00:24:26]>> You see what I mean?

[00:24:27]>> Right, okay.

[00:24:27]>> Another one is uh the uh the first John 5:7, the Johannine Comma. It's there in the King James Version today, but it's removed from all the other versions. I can show you several different passages which still are there in the King James, but it's been removed by the other Bibles. Do you know >> The four they have The four they have >> By the way, do you know why it's been removed from the other Bibles?

[00:24:47]>> No.

[00:24:47]>> Because they uh uh first John 5:7, for example, the end of Mark 16, and so on. Do you know why why it has been removed from the New Testament in the other Bibles. Because they couldn't find any manuscripts from the early sources. So, where did King James get it from? So, like >> Would you say then that the the religious scholars are trying to discern themselves what's actually true within what's actually not? But that's why it was actually removed. So >> No, they did not find any evidence they did not find any evidence in the early manuscripts. So, what it means what they what they're trying to say is that this has been basically put in the Bible and they claim that this is the word of God.

[00:25:27]Now, this is the corruption I'm telling you about. And by the way, this is not the Muslims saying it. These are the Christian scholars who say this.

[00:25:33]So, now you understand the corruption?

[00:25:35]>> No, I can see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. There's a disconnect between what Jesus preached and what was recorded in the Gospels.

[00:25:42]And and what Hashim is trying to draw your attention is that vital time between what Jesus truly preached to his companions and what was written later on. 30 The earliest Gospel is what? Gospel of Mark?

[00:25:55]>> That's what they'll say.

[00:25:56]>> they say, right? That's 30 years after the fact.

[00:25:58]>> And he's not even a disciple.

[00:25:59]>> And he's not even a disciple.

[00:26:01]>> an eyewitness. And guess who copies from the one who's not an eyewitness?

[00:26:04]Matthew.

[00:26:05]>> And guess how much?

[00:26:06]>> Who's supposed to be a disciple.

[00:26:07]>> 90% some of the scholars say.

[00:26:09]>> Doesn't make sense. Imagine you got person A who is actually the eyewitness to what Jesus is preaching. This person is copying from person B who is who didn't even exist in the time of Jesus or he has never met Jesus in flesh.

[00:26:23]So, there are many discrepancies within the Bible. And you know what Allah says in the Quran?

[00:26:27]>> But do you think Christ Do you think regardless of that, you believe all things are the will of God?

[00:26:33]>> Depends what you're talking about.

[00:26:34]>> Do you believe all things are the will of God?

[00:26:35]>> Oh, will of God? So, for example, God God also willed for the Satan to be deceiving people, right?

[00:26:41]>> Yes, we believe that.

[00:26:42]>> Yeah, of course we do.

[00:26:43]>> Right, so then wouldn't it >> Will of God doesn't mean that they can't practice a free will.

[00:26:47]>> The books that came about the Christian texts are ultimately the work of the will of God. Likewise, the palm tree.

[00:26:52]>> Yeah. Just like every evil that that is there in the in the world, there's good and evil, right? Do you agree?

[00:26:59]Good and evil wouldn't exist without God, would it?

[00:27:01]>> Right. Right.

[00:27:01]>> Okay.

[00:27:02]The evil is the choice of those people.

[00:27:04]Nothing is born or intrinsically evil.

[00:27:06]For example, Iblis or Satan, he wasn't born evil.

[00:27:10]He became evil by his choice, by his free will.

[00:27:14]So, God will test you with good and evil in this world. Which will test you with many things like poverty and wealth. Will test you with children or no children.

[00:27:23]>> that's let's say the Bible is the it's the will of God?

[00:27:28]>> No.

[00:27:29]>> It's the will of God.

[00:27:29]>> So, you have you have a test of God.

[00:27:32]God will test you. Look, you can see this thing.

[00:27:35]>> on that the Bible came about by the will of Allah?

[00:27:38]>> Uh I Yeah, but are you listening to what I'm saying? God will test you with both good and evil.

[00:27:42]>> Yeah, I can see what you're saying.

[00:27:43]>> Okay, so So, so the So, the Quran is the good that you should obey.

[00:27:47]>> And you think that's >> if you've found that the Bible consists of things which go against God, and you still are following that, then God is testing you whether you will disobey or obey God. Will you follow the the message of the truth or the message that has been corrupted?

[00:28:01]Now, that's a test for you.

[00:28:02]>> And the excuse the excuse that this is the will of God isn't going to be able to save you from from the obvious, right? So, you would think that's a test you then that's like that's something you shouldn't >> Yes, of course not. How can you follow a book that says Jesus is cursed?

[00:28:16]>> Yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. I'm going to look that up.

[00:28:18]>> Yeah. Galatians chapter 3 verse 13. And And it makes it even worse when he says that this is a curse from God.

[00:28:26]>> What does he say actually? What was it?

[00:28:27]I think I missed >> He says that uh So, So, Paul is saying for it is written that anyone who hangs on a tree is cursed.

[00:28:32]>> Right.

[00:28:32]>> All right. So, in that he doesn't say cursed by whom. But then when he says for it is written, he's always pointing to the Old Testament, which is Deuteronomy chapter 21 verse 23, where he says anyone who hangs on a tree is under God's curse.

[00:28:44]>> And who is hanging on the tree?

[00:28:46]>> According to the Bible, it's >> Is it? Yeah. So, say that. I said Yeah, according to the Bible.

[00:28:52]Like I say in in Hebrews 9:20 Hebrews chapter 9.

[00:28:57]>> It says Jesus hangs up hanging on a tree.

[00:28:59]>> Yeah, tree is symbolic for the wood that's the cross is made of.

[00:29:04]>> Tree is a cross.

[00:29:06]>> How is a cross made?

[00:29:08]>> It doesn't mean it's a tree.

[00:29:09]>> How do How is a cross made?

[00:29:10]>> The material cross is made of. It doesn't mean it's a tree.

[00:29:11]>> That's what's symbolic, bro.

[00:29:13]>> I'll look it up I'll look it up, but I don't know.

[00:29:15]>> Which Which other tree would Jesus hang from?

[00:29:19]>> He wasn't hanging from a tree.

[00:29:20]>> It wouldn't make a difference. It is Bro, do you not understand? The cross is made of of wood.

[00:29:25]>> It's made of wood, not of made of tree.

[00:29:26]It's like >> I didn't say No, no, it is made of tree.

[00:29:29]>> Yeah, it's it's it's made of wood. It's not a tree.

[00:29:31]>> So, unless Paul is telling lies Okay? I actually see that symbolic.

[00:29:37]I don't know why you see it as a little tree.

[00:29:40]>> Um cuz it's very simple. It's like I I would assume he would have known what cross was or if it was the Romans couldn't have known >> That's his problem, isn't it? That's his That's his problem. He's the one who wrote it.

[00:29:50]>> If anything, it's an evidence it's an evidence >> Yeah, look it up. No problem.

[00:29:53]>> What's up, Mike Michael?

[00:29:55]Islam gives you the solutions to your problem.

[00:29:58]Look, that's all I was here to ask you about. I wasn't here to I think you said I was disingenuous at the start.

[00:30:02]Something like that. I'm not I'm here >> You're a Christian, we know that.

[00:30:05]>> I'm not really a Christian. So, I'm in between >> Maybe you are not You're not certain about certain things in the in Christianity, but >> appreciate that cuz you don't know me.

[00:30:13]And I actually am being genuine.

[00:30:15]You can't judge me and just say >> No, no, I didn't judge you. I asked you questions.

[00:30:18]>> Yes, you did.

[00:30:18]>> I asked you questions. I asked you is Jesus God? And you were very reluctant to say no.

[00:30:23]>> Because I don't know for certain. It's all in the text.

[00:30:26]>> But now you know?

[00:30:27]>> I'll Look, I'll continue what I'm doing.

[00:30:29]But then Appreciate you talking to you guys, though.

[00:30:33]>> So, Michael Michael Michael, you're not going to find You're not going to find You're not going to find the answers in the Bible.

[00:30:38]And there's no amount of scholars that are going to come along that are going to be able to reconcile this contradictory concept that God became a man.

[00:30:45]He's all knowledgeable, but he's not all knowledgeable. He's all powerful, but he's not all powerful. No one You can add another 2,000 years to the scholarly tradition of Christianity, and they will not be able to solve this for you. So, if you were to die tomorrow, Michael, stand before your Lord, Michael, what are you going to say to your Lord when he asks you, "Did the evidence not come to you?

[00:31:05]Was it not clear that God cannot become a man or a woman or a dog or a >> Jesus is some kind of man.

[00:31:10]>> But no, he's not.

[00:31:11]>> Okay, would you >> I said my idea I thought Jesus was the spirit of God. Maybe not God himself, but he was a spirit from God and had nature of >> Yeah, but what does it mean by spirit of God?

[00:31:18]>> Yeah, this is just This is just >> My Jesus is symbolic talk. This is allegorical.

[00:31:22]>> But didn't Muhammad say that Jesus was the spirit >> Would you consider >> A spirit, not the spirit.

[00:31:26]>> Would Would you consider a creation of God to be God in any context?

[00:31:29]>> What exactly?

[00:31:30]>> Would you consider a creation of God, like a man or a woman, to be God in any context?

[00:31:35]>> No.

[00:31:36]>> There you go. Was Jesus a man?

[00:31:38]>> Yeah.

[00:31:39]>> So, the answer is clear. Why are you saying maybe, maybe not? Why you going with all this wordplay? No need for that.

[00:31:45]Once the Once the truth is clear to you, >> I'm not going with all wordplay. What's happening is when I read the text, it's hard to discern.

[00:31:51]>> No, no, but you you know logically, right? That something that is created cannot be the creator.

[00:31:57]You can't make it more Can't make it more simple than that.

[00:32:00]You see what I mean? So, there's no need to even go into that rabbit hole of maybe he might be, he might not be.

[00:32:08]No, we're not saying that. No.

[00:32:10]>> What makes you say >> We We consider the parts of the Bible to be true that has been confirmed by the Quran and the Sunnah. For example, the the Shema of It says, "Hear, Israel, the Lord your God is one." We, as Muslims, will say, "Yeah, that's true. The Lord God is one."

[00:32:26]Okay, we have no problem with that. It talks about Jesus being the Messiah. We are not Jews, we are Muslims. We accept him as a Messiah. So, that part is true.

[00:32:33]But there are many parts, for example, Jesus being a curse, uh Jesus dying for your sins, all of that to be false because we don't think anyone can take your sins away. All right? Everyone who commits a sin they're accountable for their own sins. You cannot put your sins and on some on somebody else.

[00:32:51]>> I'm going to look that up.

[00:32:52]>> Which part?

[00:32:54]>> Maybe you know, I don't have to hear it that time.

[00:32:55]What's the Hadith where >> He's talking about the Hadith Yeah, go on, tell him.

[00:32:59]>> Yeah, I don't know if he was here about that.

[00:33:00]>> Yeah, he wasn't here. Yeah.

[00:33:02]>> So it was I said about the torment for sin, like Jesus dying for sins. And I said ask him well, what's the Hadith from having said like that?

[00:33:08]>> On the day of judgement >> Allah will deliver to a Muslim, Christian or Jew on the day of judgement to be a ransom from the hellfire.

[00:33:13]And the narration says that people take the sins of the Muslim and put it on the Christian or Jew.

[00:33:18]So the sin must go punished in some sense. A ransom is um What the narration is a ransom? A ransom is a payment made to release someone >> Yeah, but you need to understand the Hadith >> So is it So is that right, yeah?

[00:33:26]>> Yes.

[00:33:27]>> That is what you >> The Hadith >> tell me that wasn't true.

[00:33:29]>> No, I said your interpretation of that is not true.

[00:33:31]>> No, you pretty much said that.

[00:33:32]>> So your interpretation >> I think it's recorded. You can Yeah, go on.

[00:33:35]>> What's your interpretation?

[00:33:36]>> What's your interpretation of that?

[00:33:39]>> Um well, it's well, if if Allah says Muhammad says that on the day of judgement Um Allah will deliver to a Muslim, Christian or Jew. He will say this will be a ransom from the hellfire.

[00:33:48]>> No, no.

[00:33:49]>> Pretty much it sounds like what he's saying is a ransom is a payment made to release someone from captivity. That sounds like >> No, it's got it's got nothing to do with sin.

[00:33:55]>> Listen listen to him now. Listen to him.

[00:33:57]>> captivity. It's got nothing >> for punishment.

[00:33:59]>> Yeah, Michael >> Do you remember when you mentioned this Hadith? When I was saying it is unfair to kill an innocent man like Jesus for your sins. That's when you brought this Hadith up.

[00:34:07]>> What do you think? Because I was I was asking you.

[00:34:08]>> No, but it has nothing to do with someone being saved from hellfire. It's It's to do with the fact that the Christians and the Jews deserve this because they were given >> I had a similar idea, no?

[00:34:20]>> Sorry?

[00:34:20]>> Bro, you you asked him a question. Let him explain to you now. Let him explain.

[00:34:23]>> Yes, it's ransom from the hellfire because they deserved it. Meaning the sins of the Muslims were placed upon the Jews and the Christians because the truth came to them and they willfully rejected it. So they deserve the hellfire, they deserve whatever they get.

[00:34:36]>> Thank you.

[00:34:37]>> It's got nothing to do with now this being you. Michael, very quickly.

[00:34:40]Michael, Michael, Michael, let me finish. Let me finish. You know what's happening.

[00:34:43]We're giving you an explanation and it's obvious that your mind >> You're presenting me with so many things. I'm thinking right. I'm trying to think.

[00:34:49]>> Yes.

[00:34:51]>> I'm thinking.

[00:34:52]>> be able to think.

[00:34:54]>> Well, they could not push me.

[00:34:57]>> This doesn't absolve the the uh injustice that comes from >> I'm getting at. Yeah.

[00:35:04]>> Yes, exactly. So in order for you to use this Hadith somehow try and reconcile the injustice of God placing the sins of mankind upon an innocent individual.

[00:35:13]There's no parallel between the two. And if you think there is, you have to bring an argument.

[00:35:17]>> And because he's on the day of judgment, they've already been condemned for hellfire because of them rejecting Allah as their only God and rejecting the Prophet Muhammad as-sallam.

[00:35:26]So I've already told you this.

[00:35:28]You see the just injustice of God in the Bible, the placing all the sins on Jesus, that is the greatest injustice. And I don't know how you don't see that.

[00:35:37]>> So when I when I read that, yeah, that's what it looks like to me.

[00:35:40]It's like it looks like there's that whole that idea.

[00:35:45]>> Yeah, kind of, yeah.

[00:35:47]>> And and there's no reconciliation here with this idea.

[00:35:51]Michael, before the day of judgment that God sends his innocent son, he doesn't come down himself.

[00:35:58]He sends his innocent son to die for the sins of mankind.

[00:36:00]There's no there's no law on earth that I know of that claims that the guilty should pay for the innocent.

[00:36:08]>> Do you agree that's injustice now?

[00:36:10]>> Yeah, I remember we spoke about that, yeah.

[00:36:11]>> No, but do you actually do you not see injustice here?

[00:36:15]How can God who is the most just commit injustice like this?

[00:36:20]And and you know, human sacrifice, by the way, it was a hallmark of all the pagan religions. So if you look at the Aztecs, the Incas, the Egyptians, the Hindus, all of these pagan religions, for them one of the main things in the doctrines was human sacrifice.

[00:36:35]And Jesus is portrayed as a human sacrifice.

[00:36:38]It wasn't God who who is the sacrifice, it is a human who is the sacrifice, right?

[00:36:42]>> Yeah.

[00:36:42]>> How can God take the way of the pagans when he himself says in the Old Testament uh you know when they were sacrificing the children to Baal, the pagan god? Yes? He says this will not even cross his mind.

[00:36:55]That is what he said in that Old Testament. How can then he make a complete U-turn in the New Testament saying that the only way you can be forgiven is by human sacrifice?

[00:37:04]See what I mean?

[00:37:07]>> Yeah, interesting, you know, yeah.

[00:37:09]How do you work?

[00:37:10]>> I will, yeah, I know, definitely. That's why I was here. I wasn't here to I wasn't here to debate you about either like to >> Fair enough. I take this position with >> No no problem. But look, you know, when the truth comes to you, you accept it.

[00:37:19]And then >> Yeah, yeah.

[00:37:20]>> and then you reflect on it.

[00:37:22]Because it's very important for you to accept the truth because you see, one thing we can't deny is death. We're all going to face it.

[00:37:29]And this is this is basically going to be your break or Yeah, make or break. Make it in the afterlife or damnation for eternity.

[00:37:41]So, it's a huge risk you're taking if you're just going to go with something that is not the truth.

[00:37:47]And once like I said, once you have seen the truth, you acknowledge it and you accept it.

[00:37:53]>> Yeah, interesting. So, you even learned how to pray as a Muslim?

[00:37:55]>> No.

[00:37:55]>> You didn't?

[00:37:56]>> I did, yeah, I prayed as a Muslim before.

[00:37:57]>> Then you learned you learned how how Abraham prayed, Muslims prayed, all the prophets from the Jesus prayed, Jesus >> Yeah, and then as I said to this now here, I also prayed like a Christian to some degree as well. You know what I mean? I'm stuck in limbo between.

[00:38:09]What's initially what I wanted to speak to you.

[00:38:11]>> Yeah.

[00:38:11]>> So.

[00:38:12]>> But do you see now that you have got the information? I think it'll be fair for you to to research it but with a in an objective way, with sincerity, and then make up your mind because don't remain in limbo forever. Because you you don't know when death is going to come and approach you.

[00:38:29]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:29]>> It is one thing that we know is certain, but we don't know when and where.

[00:38:33]>> What do you do about this, right? Last one last thing for you.

[00:38:36]I said to the guy out here and sometimes when I read the text, yeah, >> Yeah.

[00:38:41]>> I judge myself subjectively. As a believer, what I believe is true and if it resonates with me, the truth in the topic. As a believer, I feel you should be able to know that. God speaks to me.

[00:38:49]And I get that from both Quran and the Gospels.

[00:38:52]How do you How do you reconcile that?

[00:38:54]How do >> Yeah, but you see when when you say it speaks to you, >> Yeah, as a believer.

[00:38:58]>> look >> And I and I I think you should know when God is actually speaking speaks to you as a believer, yeah? And I feel like I get it from both, the Gospels and the Quran.

[00:39:06]>> Yeah, so we are not saying there's no truth in the Bible at all, like I told you earlier. But you see when you realize that the main core doctrines, for example, the Trinity and this salvation through human sacrifice, both of them are fraud. And these are the core doctrines of Christianity. So, the concept of Trinity is not even there.

[00:39:24]>> Yeah.

[00:39:25]>> Yes.

[00:39:25]>> Yeah, I know that.

[00:39:26]>> How can How can you have the core doctrine not being preached by Jesus or any of the prophets in the Bible? None of the prophets, nor did Jesus ever advocate the worship of a triune God.

[00:39:36]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:37]>> So, when you have core doctrines like that not present in the entire Bible, >> I don't need to hear that. I That's why I said initially at the >> No, but then you then what's the point of you saying that I have to read the Bible?

[00:39:47]>> Because I Like I said, I I yes, subjectively. That's all I have.

[00:39:49]>> That's That's all I have.

[00:39:50]>> Michael, subjectivism is never going to overtime what is logically contradictory.

[00:39:55]You and I, everyone on this planet, we all have the same human rationale.

[00:39:59]It would be unfair of God to give us the same foundational rationale, send down a message which is contradictory, but he wants us to subjectively come to the truth beyond that.

[00:40:12]That wouldn't make any sense. That would mean if a Hindu has experience of Ram, what? That's a justification for what you do.

[00:40:19]>> I get you. Yeah.

[00:40:19]>> Yeah. You get You get the absurdity of this notion that oh, truth can be reached through subjectivity. No, it can't.

[00:40:25]That's why in the in the in Islam, in order for a person to become a Muslim, you don't go by emotional subjective experiences. You have to be firstly recognize the truth logically and rationally and then declare with your lips how to become a Muslim.

[00:40:40]>> And that's you know, one of the things Allah says in the Quran, you'll make your whims and your desires your God.

[00:40:45]So, when you talk about subjectivity, that's the main thing. It's not how you feel cuz you know, our mood >> feel that I feel a certain way may not be true like >> Yeah, our mood changes. Yeah, sometimes we feel emotionally connected to one thing, sometimes to another thing. So, we are flawed.

[00:40:59]>> And it might be directed by Satan as well.

[00:41:00]>> Yeah. So, we are flawed and we know that. So, let's go back to the scripture and then once you have identified that this is the true scripture as opposed to say the Bible which has corruption in it, which which has untruth about God and about Jesus Christ, then surely you should move your focus away from that and come and believe in the true scripture as the true religion from the true religion.

[00:41:23]And that would be the most sensible thing to do because like I said, we don't know when we are going to pass away.

[00:41:28]Yeah? Don't don't keep it until that end time because you don't know when that is.

[00:41:33]>> And you have incentive as well. In Islam, the prophet said that the Jew or Christian who hears hears of this message and accepts it, all of his past deeds will be forgiven.

[00:41:40]>> You see, I I said I said my shahada already like I said it myself like so like I I was being genuine job and nearly yeah.

[00:41:47]>> So, hold on. Hold on. You given your shahada?

[00:41:49]>> Yeah, like I said, I used to yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:51]>> So, maybe you said you did it yourself.

[00:41:53]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:41:53]>> Do it in front of witnesses now.

[00:41:55]>> Cuz it just means God, you know, like it just means God.

[00:41:57]>> Yeah, but there's two part of the shahada. One is to to say that you declare and you testify that there's no God except Allah and then the second part is >> God but God.

[00:42:07]>> Yeah, but the second part >> the Christian and the and Islam here.

[00:42:10]>> You The second part The second part is also very important to declare that and testify that Muhammad is the last messenger of Allah. Okay?

[00:42:17]>> She testify that.

[00:42:18]>> Yeah.

[00:42:18]>> You have to accept Jesus as being only a slave and messenger of God because the prophet Muhammad, he taught this as part of the Shahada for the Jew for the Christian.

[00:42:27]>> Yeah.

[00:42:27]>> Did you know this?

[00:42:28]That when the when the Christian give the Shahada >> All right.

[00:42:31]>> part of that Shahada is the addition and that Jesus is the slave and messenger of God. Thereby doing away with this nonsense subject upon subject and it is that Jesus will come into your life and transform you. The old you will go out of you and the new you will come into you. This one doesn't go by this.

[00:42:48]>> Yeah.

[00:42:48]>> You see this part of the Quran? This is chapter 4 171. You want to read it? This is a message actually for the Christians in particular.

[00:42:56]>> Yeah.

[00:42:58]>> All people of the >> excess in religion or say >> No, no, this one. All people of the >> the scripture do not commit excess in religion.

[00:43:03]Or say about Allah accept the truth. The Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and his word which he directed to Mary and his soul created out of the commands from him.

[00:43:14]So, believe in Allah and his messengers and do not say there are three. He says it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is he above having a son. To him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth.

[00:43:23]And sufficient is Allah as a disposer of affairs.

[00:43:24]>> I I can agree with that.

[00:43:26]>> You see how how beautiful and clear it is?

[00:43:28]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:43:28]>> Isn't it? So, it says basically that Jesus is the Messiah and not the son of God. He's the son of Mary and he's a messenger of Allah.

[00:43:36]>> What does his word mean?

[00:43:38]>> His word means, you know This is an the example of Jesus is like that of Adam.

[00:43:43]When Allah decrees something, he says to it kun fayakun, be and it is. So, he's created by the word of Allah.

[00:43:49]The which basically means the command of Allah.

[00:43:52]Yeah? Same like Adam. Adam did not have father and mother. He just come out Allah created him from dust and he says be and he became. The be is a command or the word of God. That's why he's called the word from Allah. kalimatun minhu Yeah?

[00:44:06]>> And it's and it's a word of Allah, not b word of Allah. I know some of the Christians come up with this with this uh bogus apologetics. Oh, it's the word of Allah. It's not. It's kalimatullah, but that's it. Not al kalimatullah.

[00:44:18]You understand? So, look, here's another verse that you might I think is very important for the Christians. On the day of judgment, Allah will say, "Oh Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as God beside Allah?" Have you read this?

[00:44:31]>> Yeah.

[00:44:31]>> Yeah?

[00:44:32]So, this is an evidence against the Christian.

[00:44:35]Right?

[00:44:36]>> Yeah, yeah, let me see.

[00:44:37]>> This again on the day of I'm referring to Catholics here, I think actually.

[00:44:40]Catholicism >> Catholicism Yeah.

[00:44:42]>> They actually Yeah, nearly worship Mary.

[00:44:44]Actually, >> So, >> Well, both >> Basically, anyone who who worships Mary, not just the Catholics.

[00:44:49]>> Do you believe in intercession?

[00:44:50]>> Say again?

[00:44:50]>> Do you believe in intercession?

[00:44:52]>> Like Like in what?

[00:44:53]>> Like asking someone someone other than God to intercede for you, right?

[00:44:57]Something like that.

[00:44:59]>> Yeah, we do, yeah.

[00:45:00]But not when they're dead.

[00:45:02]>> Okay.

[00:45:03]>> Only when they're alive, yeah?

[00:45:04]>> Yeah, yeah. So, it's a it's very important you understand these things.

[00:45:07]Even during intercession >> Cuz that's what they say the Catholics like they ask Mary for intercession.

[00:45:11]>> Yeah, even even during intercession, we don't we don't consider that person uh that we Sorry, we don't consider to worship that person.

[00:45:19]Okay? It's just because of that lofty status, then that's the reason we intercede through. But for you to say that Jesus is equal to God or equal with God, that is shirk. No doubt about it.

[00:45:34]>> say it's shirk.

[00:45:35]>> Not just intercession, it's basically it's shirk. It's not intercession.

[00:45:40]>> And you wouldn't call God father.

[00:45:42]>> The term father was used by the >> in a spiritual sense.

[00:45:44]>> No, no, the term father was used by the Hebrews.

[00:45:47]That's why it's in the Bible. In the Quran, we don't use the term father.

[00:45:50]Allah is not the father because this is what caused the problems with the Christians anyway. Because you see the the Greeks uh because they worshipped Zeus and they worshipped Hercules like the son of God. So, for them these terms were very common. God and son of God for them was quite common.

[00:46:07]And then they started to worship the sun as God. You see, initially it became as a status, more of an endearment.

[00:46:14]Because you see, in the Bible it also says the peacekeepers are the children of God, isn't it? Doesn't mean God has many children? No. This is an a term of endearment to say the son. And the term father again means authority. Uh for example, Abraham is called the father of all nations.

[00:46:31]Yeah? Doesn't mean he's literally the father? No.

[00:46:33]Again, authority here of Abraham over the nations. That's all it is.

[00:46:38]But you see, the Quran alhamdulillah is very clear. We don't use terms like God, which has a feminine gender like goddess, which has basically plural like gods. The term Allah can only imply to the almighty God, nobody else. It's very unique. Whereas the term Elohim can apply to angels, can apply to human beings, to false gods, and to true gods as well.

[00:47:01]So, it's problematic when you have terms like that, which mean so many things to so many people. That's why in the Quran Allah doesn't use the term father for God, doesn't use the term like for example the term God or something in in in reference to him. He has a very specific title and name, which is Allah. And it only applies to him, nobody else. So, even when the Christians, you know, when they use the term Allah, they're pointing to the almighty God.

[00:47:24]Even the Jews who are Arabs, when they use this term, okay?

[00:47:28]They also use the term Allah in the context to mean only the almighty God.

[00:47:32]So, for us the clarity and it's very clear, the ambiguity is not there.

[00:47:38]And that's the reason, you know, once you have clarity it's very easy for you then to acknowledge and accommodate the truth.

[00:47:45]Because now it's clear, isn't it?

[00:47:46]>> And that's what the one thing that I the problem I have with the Gospels is there it's not clear. It appears not clear when I read it sometimes. Is he this, is he that? Is not Was he created, was he not? No, don't know, but I feel like there is truth in it. Like you said, maybe there is truth in it. It's not all >> When it comes down to the nature of When it comes down to the nature of God, the truth has to be clear.

[00:48:03]>> So, So, basically, I can see what you're saying, right? Um the only thing I have is my subjective opinion when I read it.

[00:48:08]Do you get me? That's all I That's all I came with.

[00:48:10]So, >> So, like Yeah.

[00:48:12]>> And that's the reason we >> It's hard for me to come around that, like cuz I >> That's the reason Allah says in the Quran to ask the people of knowledge.

[00:48:19]You see, when you try to process everything yourself, and same thing with anyone of us, you know, when we have limited knowledge and limited understanding of certain things, we have to go and ask people of knowledge. Just like you know, when you're at university or school, even though you have the entire textbook with you all the time, you still have to ask your teacher to clarify certain things, isn't it? The same concept applies in Islam. And this is one thing good about the Catholics. They do that.

[00:48:43]The Protestants don't. The Protestants try to interpret everything themselves.

[00:48:47]And that's why they get confused, and that's why you have so many different denominations even within Catholicism.

[00:48:53]And within the Protestants, of course, as well. Another important thing, the Catholics, the Protestants, the Orthodox, they are not even certain how many books are there in the Bible.

[00:49:01]>> Yeah, it's different.

[00:49:01]>> So, they all claim to have the same Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit, yet they differ in the number of books in their own Bible. Can you imagine? The Bible is supposed to be the word of God.

[00:49:09]>> See, how can it have >> I didn't believe it was the word of God >> anyway. I I didn't I didn't believe the Bible was the literal word of God anyway.

[00:49:17]So, like what I would have said about that was But, um I don't believe every word was literally written by God or it's inspired word of God, but I do would have believed the core message was true. That's what I would have adhered to, which is not I mean, it's not Christian doctrine. Like I said, like I said, I'm Christian. I'm not Christian.

[00:49:32]>> Yeah. But, by the way, the core >> I really really But, I I You see what I'm saying? So, >> The core doctrines are not there. So, the core message can't be true.

[00:49:38]>> Yeah. But, that's why That's why I come to the church myself to get me.

[00:49:40]>> Yeah. So, ask the people of knowledge next time, you know, uh doesn't matter which topic you're reading, whether it's to do with some worldly topics or in theology as well. Same thing applies.

[00:49:52]>> When it comes down to the concept of God >> Yeah.

[00:49:54]>> The Islamic paradigm is clear.

[00:49:56]>> Yeah.

[00:49:56]>> It doesn't need any type of There's no ambiguity there. It's not open to subjectivism. And Allah says he's one, he's one.

[00:50:02]When he says he's As-Samad, the one who requires nothing from anyone, he's a necessary being.

[00:50:06]>> I agree.

[00:50:07]>> When he says he's not begotten, it's clear.

[00:50:09]>> Yes.

[00:50:10]>> When he says he he doesn't beget, it's clear.

[00:50:12]>> Yeah.

[00:50:13]>> Right? You don't need >> Huh? Very good, yeah.

[00:50:16]>> You see how clearly it's mentioned in Surat al-Ikhlas the identity of God and who he is and who is not?

[00:50:22]And you see when we speak to children, when we teach them Surat al-Ikhlas, they understand it without any PhDs.

[00:50:29]>> Yeah.

[00:50:29]>> Whereas the Christian, try to explain the Trinity to even the grown-up, you get all confused. Why? Because that is what we That's the problem with >> Cuz even in saying Surat al-Ikhlas saying like there's no no one comparable to him, no comparison. I would I would in my own discern myself and say, "Well, that's a great reason why you phrase it the Trinity is true." Cuz there is no one a form like him. It makes perfect sense. Then they're all like, "Oh."

[00:50:53]>> So now you know now you know better, hopefully. Now you know better.

[00:50:55]>> All right. Anyway, Michael, think about it.

[00:50:57]Yeah, maybe you should refresh the Shahada again.

[00:50:59]>> Why why why don't you refresh the Shahada? Why don't you refresh it right now? That's the question.

[00:51:03]>> Um >> What is it that's stopping you? You know that the Quran are the very are the very words of God himself, the uncreated words of God. That cannot be said of the Bible. The Bible is There was in fact a study done, the stylometric analysis, where the language of a book is uh is studied in order to find out the number of authors that have contributed to it. What they found was obvious. You don't need to do much of a stylometrics analysis of the Bible. It's obvious it was written by multiple authors.

[00:51:31]They did it with the Quran. They found that it is a very high probability that it was written by one author.

[00:51:37]>> And also they did the Quran and the Hadith >> Hadith as well.

[00:51:40]>> But the beginning when I started speaking, I didn't I didn't make a Muhammad was a prophet.

[00:51:44]>> that's fine.

[00:51:45]>> But um >> That's cool. Don't worry.

[00:51:47]>> When I said to Now now that Now that you have realized that the the Quran the message of the Quran is clear, unambiguous. And that's you know the reason Islam is the fastest growing religion today is because of this. It's clarity and simplicity of the message which resonates with everyone.

[00:52:02]>> And it's social and the social difference as well.

[00:52:05]It brings people together irrespective of class, color, creed as bro as a brotherhood in a brotherhood in the form of a brotherhood. So do you have any reasonable doubt for stopping you from becoming a Muslim right here right now? That's the question that >> I feel like I already am a Muslim because I believe there is only one God.

[00:52:22]I worship him alone.

[00:52:24]>> And you believe Muhammad is a messenger of Allah?

[00:52:26]>> So >> Last and >> believe he's not. But I'm still in limbo. I'll have to go home and process what he's talking about. But I don't believe that he's not a prophet of God.

[00:52:34]That's my That's why I came to speak to you today.

[00:52:36]>> So what is it what is it that's stopping you So if you were to for instance say to you that there are there have been evidences brought by Prophet Muhammad regarding his prophethood sala allahu alayhi wasallam where it makes it extremely improbable that he could be nothing but a prophet.

[00:52:49]>> So let's not say this So like problem I have is where is except completely accepting Islam means have to completely reject Christianity which I don't want to do. That's the problem we have.

[00:53:03]>> Why why you don't want to reject Christianity?

[00:53:05]>> [laughter] >> No but I really want to know why you don't want to reject Christianity. What is it in Christianity that still holds you?

[00:53:11]>> Yeah because of cultural Christianity or you talking about Christianity the text?

[00:53:15]>> The text, the gospels. What about >> That's not all Quran, right?

[00:53:18]>> No no, the message. The message.

[00:53:20]>> Okay, I'm just kidding.

[00:53:21]>> Message through the gospel.

[00:53:22]>> Yeah but even the message of the gospel like I said the core messages are missing.

[00:53:25]>> So that's why I'm I'm stuck doing that.

[00:53:27]>> Michael, it's very simple. The Quran came, it is the only truth. It has been uncorrupted, it has been uh written down since the beginning, nothing's been changed. So therefore it is the criteria by which we judge all previous scriptures.

[00:53:44]Just like when Jesus comes along and he came with his addendums to the Jewish laws, right? Similarly, when the prophet comes along, everything before that is abrogated. When Jesus came along, everything before that was abrogated other than what Jesus taught and what he added to.

[00:53:59]If you want to follow the Bible, you want to follow the Torah, the Quran is the way in which we can determine what's true therein and what's false.

[00:54:09]Does that make sense? There So, use the Quran as a sieve.

[00:54:12]The sieve will get rid of all the impurities.

[00:54:16]It's a criterion. So, if you know that, that's not a reasonable doubt. That's just you bringing up something that's in your mind, but you know for sure I I know you know in your heart that the Quran is the means by which you can understand the Gospel.

[00:54:33]Exactly. So, what what the Quran is going to do, Michael, is tell you to not follow what St. Paul wrote. St. Paul, a man who never met Jesus during his lifetime, was a persecutor of the true followers of Jesus.

[00:54:48]But when you say that you Most of the New Testament is Paul's words.

[00:54:55]Okay, but in other words, we don't need to talk about Paul's letters because you don't believe in much of what Paul brought anyway, right?

[00:55:07]Of course it does.

[00:55:11]But then I'm using my own subjective thoughts to discern that it's not subjective. It's actually it's quite well attested, right? There's scholars who've spoken about this. They've spoken about how the beginning of the Gospel of John is very much Hellenistic in nature. And not the idea of the Logos Yeah, becoming flesh.

[00:55:31]doubts in your heart that Islam is the truth. The only The only reasons that might be stopping you is what? You think that Prophet Muhammad isn't a prophet?

[00:55:39]>> No, I I feel like I believe in Jesus in in the Christian >> We believe in Jesus. You can't be a Muslim unless you believe in Jesus as a prophet of God, as a Messiah.

[00:55:48]So, you see we >> At the moment, as it stands right now, we believe in Jesus as being more than a prophet.

[00:55:53]>> Oh, he's a Messiah, yeah.

[00:55:54]>> More of like I feel >> What else can he be?

[00:55:56]>> I still believe he has some divine nature at the moment.

[00:55:58]>> What do you mean by that?

[00:55:59]>> I don't know quite 100% but that's that's just >> Like Michael follow him saying >> Jesus being >> You're not ready to give up.

[00:56:05]>> No, just yet. No, no, no.

[00:56:06]Jesus Jesus being divine, he's either divine in his entirety or he's not. You can't you don't In divinity, when it comes to God he's an absolute being.

[00:56:15]There can't be a halfway house. You can't be half in >> What's your understanding of the term divine?

[00:56:20]How do you interpret? How do you use it in this context?

[00:56:24]>> He has some some spirit or nature of God in him to some degree or or another, basically.

[00:56:29]>> You can't have you can't have it halfway.

[00:56:31]>> Yeah, but when he says spirit, you mean he's guided by a spirit?

[00:56:34]Cuz we consider our angel to be a spirit, you know. So, when when guidance came from angel Gabriel to him >> Cuz if God took out his own his own spirit, his own nature and put it into Jesus to some degree.

[00:56:46]>> If that was the case, then Jesus would have told people to worship him. He never did that. Jesus would have Yeah, but if you if you got God in you yeah, you're you're part of God, then surely he should have told them to worship him, right? Why did he always direct the worship to only one person, the father? Why?

[00:57:03]Which means that even he did not believe what you're saying.

[00:57:07]>> That's That's learn time that he's not God.

[00:57:08]>> Yeah? So, what you what you're saying is basically from again from your subjective reading.

[00:57:13]Yeah, so subjectivity can be flawed.

[00:57:16]Because you see we as human beings, we are susceptible to mistakes, to flaws, and to emotional reasoning.

[00:57:23]>> Rather than I use my head cuz I don't really believe just straight away what people tell me. So, I have to discern myself somewhere what's true and that's >> I think you I think you're using your heart more than your head.

[00:57:32]>> You have to find >> Yeah, of course.

[00:57:33]>> You have to find a balance.

[00:57:34]>> Cuz one is where you use logic only, the other is you use the emotions as well.

[00:57:38]And I'm not saying that it's not important to use emotion, of course it is. But you see when when go based on the words of Jesus himself, he's telling everyone, for example, the Lord's Prayer.

[00:57:48]Not once did he include the other parts of the Trinity.

[00:57:50]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:50]>> He only directed to the Father. Our Father in heaven, yes? Hallowed be thy name.

[00:57:55]>> about that.

[00:57:55]>> Say again?

[00:57:56]>> I asked a pastor about that.

[00:57:57]>> And what did he say?

[00:57:57]>> No answer.

[00:57:58]>> Yeah, of course.

[00:57:59]So you see, use use logic, use reasoning, all right? And then see look at Jesus' words. Because most of the Bible, when you look at the red letter words, it's pretty clear.

[00:58:10]What about these two?

[00:58:12]All right, just like that.

[00:58:15]All right. So you see, what I'm saying is that when you look at the Bible from and just reflect and focus on Jesus' words only, then you'll see that it's much closer to Islam.

[00:58:25]>> This this notion, Michael, also that Jesus has aspects of God.

[00:58:30]>> Yeah, that's what we were taught. Some divine nature, something like that, yeah.

[00:58:32]>> You can't have a being that's half divine.

[00:58:35]It has certain properties of God, but he doesn't have the full properties of God.

[00:58:39]>> Well, the Greeks have that.

[00:58:40]>> Like what I would say is like he would >> So again, this is the point. It's it's from the Greeks that they believed in demigods. Remember how Hercules was part man, part divine? So this language is coming from there.

[00:58:50]>> But when it comes to God himself, God is supposed to be God in the absolute sense of the word.

[00:58:55]He can't stop being God for a millisecond.

[00:58:58]So when you find, for instance, Jesus you claiming to have divine nature, no, no, no. That's I think what you're doing is you're reading into the greatness of Jesus more than what he actually claimed.

[00:59:09]That he's that somehow amounts to him being divine. It doesn't.

[00:59:12]Jesus, for instance, giving life to the dead, we know that cannot be from Jesus himself alone.

[00:59:20]>> By the power of God.

[00:59:21]>> It is through the power of God. It's through the permission of God. And he acknowledges that himself.

[00:59:25]>> Jesus says he can't do anything except what he seems trying to debunk.

[00:59:28]>> And and in Acts 2:22 it says he does wonders and miracles. Yes?

[00:59:33]Through sorry, Jesus is a man accredited of God who does wonders and miracles.

[00:59:37]And God is saying through him but by God.

[00:59:41]Very clear.

[00:59:43]>> So there should be none of this in your head there shouldn't be this idea that you're reading in the gospel >> He was special. Look, all all prophets have been given certain special abilities which we normal people don't have. Like for example them, you know, having miracles.

[00:59:59]>> Like the prophet Muhammad.

[01:00:00]>> Take Moses for example. It's not easy to split the sea, right?

[01:00:04]Jesus didn't do that but Moses did.

[01:00:06]It's not easy to raise people from the dead which Jesus did but Moses did not.

[01:00:10]So all of this, you know, we as Muslims we believe that that these miracles were done by these prophets and messengers.

[01:00:17]But we don't consider them God because of that miracle because a miracle itself, the source of that was always God.

[01:00:24]Remember when Jesus raised Lazarus? The first thing he raises his eyes up to the heavens and he prays to God and then he raises them.

[01:00:33]>> Yeah. So again just to go just kind of go back to what you're saying what would it prevent me from completely accepting Islam? And one and one other thing as well is just like I said I have to completely do away I have to do away with the idea that Jesus was even crucified. Gone honestly.

[01:00:49]Completely. So like >> Yeah, but crucifixion doesn't make anyone God.

[01:00:54]>> Like when it comes I have to I have to basically imagine it never happened.

[01:00:56]>> Yeah, that you see >> That's really hard for me right now.

[01:00:58]>> There is still room for research. I'm not saying no. No one expects you to you know, basically become >> And that's why I can't do that right now is like I can't do it right now.

[01:01:06]>> No no, like all of this requires research. So for you to learn, to research, to ask questions, there's always room for that.

[01:01:13]But the fact you need to understand is that the crucifixion itself doesn't make someone divine. It's actually the opposite. If somebody dies, then you know that person is not divine.

[01:01:23]Cuz death doesn't touch a being who's divine.

[01:01:27]A divine being is immortal.

[01:01:28]>> I just think that you mean that the divine just I just mean like coming to terms with the event itself never even happened. That's like a big thing. Like do you get me? Like cuz I nearly believe it did happen.

[01:01:37]>> If you are going to I believe that >> Remember that verse we spoke about like 157, yeah.

[01:01:41]>> 4157, yeah.

[01:01:43]>> Yeah, yeah. I could basically could nearly affirm it if you looked at it.

[01:01:45]Just starting my head.

[01:01:46]>> No, no, no. You can't look at it anyway because anyway you look at it, the next verse says he certainly did not die.

[01:01:52]>> Yeah, but he because he was raised alive.

[01:01:54]>> Say again? Yeah, he was raised, ascended, yeah.

[01:01:56]>> Yeah. So he didn't die. He did but he did >> No, no, no. When you ascended, he did not die.

[01:02:00]>> But if he still alive >> God raised him to himself doesn't mean he he's he's someone who is dead. He raised him alive.

[01:02:06]And he will come You know why? Because the second phase of his mission is is still outstanding.

[01:02:11]>> Can I tell you my current understanding of that verse from my own subjective point?

[01:02:14]>> Yeah.

[01:02:15]>> Would you like to hear that? Go ahead.

[01:02:16]So like like it starts off with saying for their boasting, yeah? The Jews, they've killed Jesus, the son of Mary.

[01:02:23]>> They were boasting, yeah.

[01:02:24]>> Yeah, so they're talking he's he's saying this is for the Jews boasting we've killed him. Cuz he has the Jews saying we killed Jesus. He died, right?

[01:02:32]And he said they they did not kill him.

[01:02:33]They did They They did not They They did not kill him. Jews, they did not kill him. They did not crucify him. It was made to appear that they did.

[01:02:41]>> Actually, it doesn't say they did not kill him. It says they did not kill him.

[01:02:45]>> It's They neither, yeah.

[01:02:47]Right, same.

[01:02:49]>> But I'm not >> wording, right? So let's let me finish.

[01:02:52]>> They did not kill him nor did they crucify him. It was made to appear that they did. It appeared that they did. It appeared so that they killed him and crucified It appeared that doesn't mean someone else was on the cross. Doesn't mean that It appeared that It looked How would it look if they killed Jesus?

[01:03:06]>> So it's a historical >> It It looked like that.

[01:03:08]>> Michael >> Because they did. Now, let me let me ask you. They did not kill him nor did they crucify him. It was made to appear that they did. It appeared that they did because they did. It appeared that way.

[01:03:16]>> Why does it have to say they did?

[01:03:17]>> They did not because ultimately the will of God would have crucified Jesus.

[01:03:22]>> No, no, no. No, no, no, no. He He was not crucified.

[01:03:25]Yeah, I know. But you see Allah doesn't say that.

[01:03:28]So, why are you putting your words in it?

[01:03:29]>> Because all I have is my own subjective I'm trying trying This is how I'm trying to intermingle >> So, we can we can >> the crucifixion with Quran.

[01:03:36]>> So, we can reconcile what you're saying.

[01:03:37]>> In fact, yeah, just to start where I asked you.

[01:03:39]>> He is going to >> We can reconcile.

[01:03:40]>> Yeah.

[01:03:41]>> We can say that historically it was made to appear to them so.

[01:03:45]Them not crucifying him is a It's a It's a supernatural claim.

[01:03:51]So, you have your naturalistic claim that it was made to appear to them so.

[01:03:55]Which could be the Jews, it could be the Romans, it could even be some of the followers of Jesus.

[01:04:00]>> Yeah. It could be.

[01:04:02]>> So, it was made to appear to them so, but God is saying the truth of the matter is supernatural claim.

[01:04:10]And God is revealing it through Prophet Muhammad. They didn't kill him. They didn't crucify him. So, we can grant the Christian this idea that it was made to appear to them so.

[01:04:20]>> And that was written in history.

[01:04:22]>> Exactly.

[01:04:22]>> And that's how everybody believed it.

[01:04:24]>> Exactly.

[01:04:24]>> And then you see, by the way, when we ask the Christians who were the eyewitness to see the crucifixion of Jesus, they don't have any.

[01:04:29]>> No.

[01:04:30]>> Cuz the eyewitnesses were basically Mary, you know, and we don't have a gospel according to Mary. Okay? And whoever was there, we don't have a gospel according to them. It says his disciples they all forsook him.

[01:04:40]>> Yeah.

[01:04:41]>> So, if none of them were there, we can now affirm there's no eyewitness So, everything was basically hearsay.

[01:04:47]So, when it appeared to them, they told other people, "Okay, Jesus died." And that's what was written in history.

[01:04:53]>> This is not even >> And we have no problem with that. If If that was written in history, we go by the testimony of God, not what the historians wrote.

[01:04:59]>> Yeah.

[01:05:00]And this is not even part of the salvation salvation of Islam anymore.

[01:05:03]Right? This is >> Yeah, that's what I told him. Yeah, but you >> That's that's the problem I have because I nearly tried to intermingle both and and I nearly tried to justify >> And that's true. That's what happens when like Hashim was saying when you begin your begin using your subjectivism to try and interpret the Quran rather than going back to the experts who understand what the verse means then you're going to fall into problems.

[01:05:24]It happened with the Christians before.

[01:05:26]The Christians began to read when they read the Bible they end up interpreting it any which way about one.

[01:05:32]So the Islam we have a fail-safe system in there. In chapter 4 verse 59 where it says all you who believe obey God and obey his messenger and those who have been placed in authority amongst you. If you differ in anything amongst you refer it back to Allah and his messenger and that is the best form of interpretation.

[01:05:48]So the we have fail-safe systems that stop the Muslims from falling into mistakes that the Jews and the Christians fell into prior to.

[01:05:55]So if you come into Islam you're not going to if you follow Islam thereafter properly you're not going to be able to fall into the mistakes of subjectivism that you're currently falling into and and stumbling over. You'll always have someone to guide you back.

[01:06:06]>> Exactly.

[01:06:06]>> Yeah look Okay look I appreciate what you're saying.

[01:06:11]>> You know you know what You know you know what the Satan wants?

[01:06:14]He wants you to procrastinate and to delay coming to the deen al-Islam the deen al-haq the the religion of truth. This is the objective of Satan cuz you see he he promised God that he's going to deceive us. He's the greatest enemy of mankind. Yes? Allah says he's the aduwun mubeen the greatest enemy of mankind since even before Adam was given life he already said that I'm greater than him I'm better than him. Yes? God he says you you created him from dust but I'm created from fire so I'm better than him.

[01:06:49]He wants to delay your coming to Islam as much as possible.

[01:06:53]If you have nothing in your heart other than this feud I would say nitpicking here because not really I mean if you believe in Allah is the only true God and you believe in Muhammad as the message last and final messenger of God. And by the way look you know when you accept Islam, you don't reject Jesus. Yes?

[01:07:11]With the With the Jews, they reject Jesus and Muhammad as the last messenger of God. Um They When you're a Christian, you reject Muhammad as the last messenger of God.

[01:07:22]When you're a Muslim, you accept them all as true messengers of God. You see?

[01:07:25]So, you're gaining an extra messenger, the last and the final messenger. Yes?

[01:07:30]And you're not losing anything because we Like I said, we wouldn't be Muslims if we don't accept Jesus Christ as a prophet, a messenger, and a Messiah of God.

[01:07:40]>> I mean, he's the from the five great messengers of >> Yeah, yeah.

[01:07:42]>> Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. They're the five great >> Top Top five, yeah.

[01:07:47]>> So, you're not going to miss out on anything. What you're going to miss out on is coming into the truth sooner rather than later.

[01:07:53]>> Yeah.

[01:07:54]>> So, that's initially why I came here, pretty much, cuz Did you get rid of your doubts?

[01:07:59]Pretty much, yeah.

[01:08:00]>> Yeah.

[01:08:01]>> What doubts >> Like I was saying, the guy out there >> That's it. That's why I'm saying it's like >> Yeah.

[01:08:04]>> I find it >> hard to put down both. I'll put down one or the other. Like >> Yeah, so you're saying you can't have both, right?

[01:08:08]>> So, I tried to keep both I like nearly the >> The only way you will put down is by rejecting Muhammad as messenger.

[01:08:15]>> [laughter] >> So, look Look at Look at what the Prophet Muhammad brings by way of also proving to the Christians that he's the true messenger of God. Not just the Quran, which is the very words of God.

[01:08:23]The fact that it's remained intact, unchanged. The fact that the Quran itself is an evidence of the miracle of the Prophet Muhammad.

[01:08:31]But, Prophet Muhammad he told us about things in the world that will take place centuries afterwards.

[01:08:39]So, he speaks about the day of judgment.

[01:08:41]Have you heard of these prophecies of the Prophet Muhammad?

[01:08:43]>> I've heard of prophecies, no.

[01:08:44]>> So, when you come across these prophecies, then Have you heard of Nostradamus?

[01:08:47]>> Um I've heard of the name, but I don't know who it is, yeah.

[01:08:49]>> But, he You know, this >> He's a philosopher or something.

[01:08:51]>> No, he's a sage. He was like this man who made prophecies written in four-line quatrains.

[01:08:56]>> Right, right.

[01:08:56]>> And if you read those I used to be into when I was younger, right? When I wasn't a Christian.

[01:08:59]>> can Which you You in 10 different ways.

[01:09:01]>> Exactly. That was the point I was going to make. You can interpret it in any which way, but one.

[01:09:05]Compare them to the prophecies of the Prophet Muhammad and you'll come away thinking, now these are prophecies.

[01:09:11]They're time specific.

[01:09:13]They're time specific.

[01:09:15]And so, there's no way that they can be interpreted in any other way. So, for instance, >> Unambiguous.

[01:09:20]>> Unambiguous. They're unambiguous.

[01:09:21]The Prophet Muhammad he's told us about the day of judgment.

[01:09:25]This This minor signs that will take place as well as the major signs.

[01:09:28]Right?

[01:09:29]Talking about Jesus coming back, what will happen to him, the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims and the Christians, they will come together against the common foe. So, they're going to be they're going to come together to fight the common foe, the Prophet Muhammad told us.

[01:09:40]And then, the treaty will be broken.

[01:09:44]Because the Christian will break the treaty.

[01:09:46]But before that, he speaks about the minor signs. And many of our scholars have spoken about how the minor signs are coming true before our very eyes.

[01:09:53]Because the prophecies are so specific.

[01:09:56]So, for instance, the Prophet Muhammad he said, "They will not come a time No, sorry. The day of judgment will not come until the barefooted >> Bedouins.

[01:10:05]>> Bedouins. The barefooted, naked Bedouins, they will compete against each other in the building of tall in the construction of tall buildings."

[01:10:13]>> Where is that today?

[01:10:15]Where is it?

[01:10:15]>> Where are the tall buildings today?

[01:10:17]>> Arabia.

[01:10:17]>> Exactly.

[01:10:17]>> And Dubai and so on. So, basically Arabia, yeah.

[01:10:20]>> And was it ever before? Before the Arabs struck gold, Did they compete?

[01:10:26]>> Yeah, black gold.

[01:10:27]Right? Black gold.

[01:10:29]Another Another uh statement of the Prophet. He said that the day of judgment will not come until the lands of Arabia become rivers and meadows.

[01:10:37]It's a dual It's a It's like a dual information in there.

[01:10:41]They will return to becoming medows and rivers.

[01:10:45]Now, how did the Prophet Muhammad, who's living who's an illiterate living amongst illiterate people who are isolated from the rest of the world in the desert?

[01:10:52]>> In the desert.

[01:10:53]>> How did he know that the lands of Arabia used to be >> Medows. rivers and meadows.

[01:10:59]Do you know when the last time there were rivers and meadows?

[01:11:02]7,000 BCE during the Holocene period.

[01:11:05]Around 7,000 BCE.

[01:11:07]How did he know? Why would he place all of his eggs into one basket? Right? And then he says that they will return to becoming meadows.

[01:11:15]That's happening only in the 20th and the 21st century with the advent of global warming and technology.

[01:11:22]So we have a dual prophecy there. Or dual information within prophecy.

[01:11:27]Again, very very clear that the Prophet Muhammad could not have been making this up because the probability factor is so very low.

[01:11:36]It's just not possible for a man to make these prophecies, talk about the future, and get them right.

[01:11:42]Another prophecy, the Prophet he said that there will come a time that the day of judgment won't come until the beasts will speak to human beings or human beings will speak to beasts.

[01:11:51]And recently I read in the you you know we we share this amongst ourselves like they spoke about being able to use AI to translate literally the languages of of of the the the the bonobos, right, which are type of monkey I think it was.

[01:12:10]Also dolphins.

[01:12:11]Octopi.

[01:12:14]I mean it's extraordinary.

[01:12:15]And the Prophet's making these types of prophecies.

[01:12:18]So when you look at the accumu- the cumulative case about Prophet Muhammad, there's no doubt he was a messenger of Allah. He said and not just a prophet from the great messengers.

[01:12:27]>> Even about the history. You know, we recently discovered the Rosetta Stone and could translate the hieroglyphics.

[01:12:33]In the Quran, Allah says in the time of Joseph there were kings, not pharaohs, whereas the Bible says there were pharaohs.

[01:12:41]How did the Quran get it so accurate from a historic perspective when they couldn't decipher the hieroglyphics?

[01:12:48]Because and there's another passage as well.

[01:12:51]Um So basically it's it's it says in the Quran that um the skies did not cry for the pharaoh.

[01:12:58]Yes?

[01:12:59]In the hieroglyphics it's written in Egypt they found where it says the skies cried for the pharaoh.

[01:13:06]How did Allah reject something which wasn't even discovered yet?

[01:13:10]I mean so specific, which shows you again the revelation of the Quran is not something from an ordinary man, it's from >> Yeah, I don't I don't >> from a divine source.

[01:13:20]>> Yeah, that's why I say 182188 it is compelling like like I do agree with that. Do you know what I mean? So, anyway that's the reason why I came anyway. You're kind of soft looking at me now. It's been a stand off the stand off. I was being I was being genuine like I That's fine. You can see my position now like >> Yeah, so you know the thing is sometimes we we judge by certain actions or certain words. Only God Almighty knows what's in the hearts. But anyway, look at the end of the day, you know what? When you and I stand alone in front of God >> Yeah.

[01:13:48]>> yes? We're not going to get help from anyone else. We're going to answer for ourselves. So, whatever you do for your sake, whatever I do for my sake uh on the day of judgment we will all basically be facing God and then he's going to ask you what was the reason you did not accept Islam.

[01:14:09]Because in the Quran Allah says the only religion that will be accepted is Al-Islam.

[01:14:14]So, he's going to ask you on that day, why did you not accept Islam? And if you're going to you know have no answer that day imagine the the misfortune that you knew, you understood, but you delayed it to the extent that you passed away.

[01:14:28]>> You know, wouldn't it be the will of God if I didn't?

[01:14:31]>> No, no. You see the will of God is there. No, no, the will of God is there, but you you got a will as well. You got a free will.

[01:14:37]I'll tell you how the will of God works.

[01:14:38]The will of God doesn't mean that he wants you to go to hellfire. The will of God is that there's a will of God and within that is our will as well. So, you do have a choice.

[01:14:49]And that's why you will be held accountable on the day of judgement. If you did not have a choice, it would be unfair for God to hold you or me accountable on the day of judgement.

[01:14:57]>> You have to make that first step, Michael.

[01:14:58]>> Yeah. So, the choice is there, which is your free will.

[01:15:01]But you see, Allah makes that choice like he he um he makes it happen. So, if you wanted to drink that uh lemonade drink over there, that's your that's your choice, right?

[01:15:13]The fact that you're able to drink it, to actualize that choice, Allah's will is there because only then you can drink it, otherwise you can't. If Allah did not will it.

[01:15:22]>> That's why there's a verse in the Quran where God says, "They cannot will to walk." Meaning they walk the straight path until Allah wills. Meaning you have to will it first. You have to recognize it first, and then Allah will will to guide you. There's another verse in the Quran where Allah says, "That um whoever wills to uh walk the straight path, Allah will open up their hearts to the truth of Islam."

[01:15:45]>> Yeah, yeah.

[01:15:45]>> And you see, Allah will make that route easy for you. But if you are willing to do the disobedience, Allah will also make that way easy for you. So, whatever you focus on, Allah helps you to make that way easy.

[01:15:57]>> Thanks, as he gives you rope in your transgression.

[01:15:59]I was saying that the Quran says he gives you rope in your transgression.

[01:16:02]Gives you rope in your transgression.

[01:16:03]Yeah.

[01:16:04]>> Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. He'll make that He'll make that way easy for you because you are always constantly working towards the disobedience of God.

[01:16:11]So, whatever whoever desires that, have your way.

[01:16:14]>> Yeah.

[01:16:15]Yeah, look, right. Cool. Um >> So, let let's say the Shahada.

[01:16:19]>> Look, I have a lot I have >> It's all right, no problem, Michael. We don't want to impose it on you, but like I said, you need to understand the gravity of this.

[01:16:28]>> Yeah.

[01:16:28]>> The the sooner the better.

[01:16:30]>> I would have no problem doing that if I could come to myself, believe like, "Oh yeah, 100% I believe it sounds reasonable."

[01:16:34]>> No No one's going to have Look, no one's going to have 100%.

[01:16:38]>> And that's all I do is I only I only have my subjective mind, so I'll I about what you're saying, you know what I mean, so that's just where I'm at.

[01:16:43]>> Weigh up the most important things, prioritize them.

[01:16:47]Don't be sidetracked by things that are less important.

[01:16:50]>> If it's not 100% and if you know that it is 80%, then it's only logical that you accept the 80%.

[01:16:57]>> Yes, exactly. That's a very, very good point.

[01:17:00]Because God >> Otherwise, is the Shaitan just delaying it for you until you you breathe your last and you don't want to be in that position. Because it's going to On the day of judgment, when you realize this that why did I not accept it?

[01:17:12]Yes, for these trivial things, for these minute things sometimes. Because that is what the Shaitan does. He makes that look magnified for you.

[01:17:22]But he But then doesn't let you focus on the main things. You know, the oneness of Allah and Prophet Muhammad being the last messenger. This is what the Shahada thing is. Once you accept that, then if you got any other questions, there's nothing wrong in you delving into that.

[01:17:36]In fact, every every time you ask a question about Islam or research on it, everything will be in your Hasanat. Will be a blessing for you.

[01:17:45]So, that's why you In order for you to open that door of blessing, you have to take the Shahada, enter into Islam willingly, by your own choice, not somebody imposing it on you.

[01:17:55]And then, whatever the path you're taking, Allah will put blessing in that in terms of you researching about Islam or asking questions, um you know, getting rid of your doubts.

[01:18:05]All of that become a blessing.

[01:18:08]Cuz you're working towards the truth, isn't it?

[01:18:10]>> Well, again, look look, I have a prayer mat. I I don't have a I have a crucifix.

[01:18:13]So, look, that's I wasn't being genuine when I said I'm not I'm both, you know, but anyway.

[01:18:17]>> Yeah, but you you have to let go of one.

[01:18:18]>> Yeah, I get you.

[01:18:19]>> Because you see, it's it's like saying that uh I will disobey and obey God. You can't do that.

[01:18:26]Once you know that this is the path of the truth, then that is what obedience to God is. Once you know someone who is a man, a creation of God, all right? Um and he actually is going to die for your sins. That clearly is not justice. Let alone the path of that God would want you to take.

[01:18:43]There's a huge difference between the crucifixion and the hug, the theme, Al-Islam.

[01:18:48]The truth.

[01:18:49]>> I just When you're when just earlier when you were saying I wasn't listening, it's because you just said something and I just started to think about it. I thought I was listening.

[01:18:55]>> That's fine. No problem.

[01:18:56]>> Don't feel afraid also to call upon God.

[01:18:58]In your own time, call upon him because he'll guide you to the truth. Be sincere in the way you're looking for God. As Allah says in the Quran, "Call upon me and I'll answer your call."

[01:19:06]>> I am. I'm sorry. I am being sincere.

[01:19:09]>> All right, Michael. I think we've taken enough of your time. But yeah, we we pray to Allah to the to the to the only true God, right? That he guides all of us to the truth.

[01:19:18]And by the way, when you go home, you know, when you are in confused about something, just pray to God. Say Don't You don't even have to take the name.

[01:19:25]Just say Almighty God, because you know there's only one God, right? You're certain about that. Just say the the Almighty God, the only true God, please guide me to the truth. You know, sometimes we underestimate the power of dua, the power of supplication to God.

[01:19:38]He guides the people who are sincere and who are willing to go that length to to basically focus and spend time in your seclusion and supplicate to God, you know? Inshallah.

[01:19:51]>> do that Don't do that enough.

[01:19:52]>> Yeah. I don't do it.

[01:19:53]>> Put your head down like the way Jesus did if you have to.

[01:19:55]>> I do that a lot.

[01:19:56]>> Yeah, alhamdulillah, you know?

[01:19:58]Because you see this is the most important part of of a human being, isn't it? And the most important part you're putting on on the lowest level, which is the ground.

[01:20:07]Yeah, ground level.

[01:20:09]And then you supplicate to the Almighty who's the highest.

[01:20:13]And that is a huge symbolic way of saying, "I fully submit to you.

[01:20:18]So please guide me."

[01:20:20]>> I will, yeah.

[01:20:21]>> Yeah?

[01:20:22]>> Look, I appreciate your time, yeah.

[01:20:23]>> No problem. Take care, Michael. We pray that Allah give you hidaya.

[01:20:26]>> Yeah, call me anytime.

[01:20:27]>> Take care.

[01:20:27]>> [laughter] >> All right. May Allah give the brother hidaya. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

[01:20:34]>> What do you have to say? guys good?

[01:20:35]What's good? Alhamdulillah. I mean I mean I mean I didn't >> I didn't like >> I like him. I didn't all right?

[01:20:51]>> I'm going to come. How you doing?

[01:20:52]>> I saw you somewhere. You saw me somewhere?

[01:20:53]>> Where?

[01:20:54]>> You were in the >> Oh, yeah. You were in the masjid on Friday.

[01:20:57]Oh, you went to the masjid? Oh, mashallah. I was literally next to you.

[01:21:01]Oh, I didn't go to the masjid.

[01:21:02]>> [laughter] >> I didn't know it was a cycle.

[01:21:04]>> It's okay. It happens.

[01:21:05]>> How are you?

[01:21:05]>> Yeah. Alhamdulillah. What's your name?

[01:21:07]>> Evan.

[01:21:07]>> Evan. I'm Hashim.

[01:21:08]>> Hashim. Very nice to meet you.

[01:21:09]>> Likewise. You come to pick