How Immigrant Entrepreneurs Can Raise Money in Canada

[00:00:00][music] [music] [music] >> Hi everyone.

[00:00:18]And welcome to the next episode of the Global Nomads podcast. Today we have Andrew Sandow. Andrew is the CEO and co-founder of Intrinsic Innovations and Intrinsic Venture Capital.

[00:00:28]He's not an immigrant himself, but he's a big supporter and he's responsible for bringing more than 50 businesses from different parts of the world into Canada.

[00:00:38]Andrew, welcome.

[00:00:39]>> Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

[00:00:42]>> [music] >> What we'll be talking today is going to be very interesting for our viewers. We have people previously who have had businesses, but we haven't had a chance to talk with someone who actually evaluated businesses before.

[00:01:04]So it's great to have you and learn about the other sides. So people who are thinking about starting a business in Canada and especially in the innovation sphere can leverage this podcast and learn something new.

[00:01:16]>> Perfect. Thank you.

[00:01:17]>> So um your career right now is doing work in the intersection of startups and then technology and global market. So tell us a little bit of that journey.

[00:01:28]What brought you into that?

[00:01:30]>> Well, to be honest, growing up I didn't have a lot of exposure to an international audience. I grew up in rural Alberta.

[00:01:37]Uh even moving to Calgary for university, it was still not that diverse. I find in the last 20 to 30 years the diversity in Canada has as as grown tremendously and that's a great thing.

[00:01:50]Um I guess what inspired me to start working with international entrepreneurs was my time early on uh later on in my career when I was at Innovate Calgary, which became Platform Calgary, working on Canada's Startup Visa Program.

[00:02:04]Um, I was tasked with identifying a way to make the program work, given the entity's focus on building Calgary's entrepreneurial community. And it wasn't an easy task, but what we found was, or what I found is, just the relationships we developed with our clients, the the newcomer entrepreneurs.

[00:02:23]Those relationships were just tremendously valuable to me, just in personally and professionally. Uh, they were um, can't think of the word, but well, I'm I'm just incredibly inspiring individuals that we met through through that program.

[00:02:40]>> Well, I believe that entrepreneurs are inspiring in general, just because, you know, you're willing to risk a lot and go and start something >> that you're passionate in. But especially if you're immigrating and starting a business, adds to the complexity, because you have to also take into account the relocation difficulties, the cultural difficulties that one person will face.

[00:03:01]>> Exactly. And, you know, to want to immigrate to a new country, to leave the place that you called home for for the entirety of your life, that tells you a little bit about your risk profile. And entrepreneurs, again, they need to have a high, uh, willingness to accept risk.

[00:03:18]So, there's a a good match between immigrant entrepreneurs and and entrepreneurs in general.

[00:03:24]>> And do you think that, um, when you look at entrepreneurs, like Canadian entrepreneurs and immigrant entrepreneurs, outside of the risk profile, are there any other qualities that make the immigrant entrepreneur stand out a little bit?

[00:03:37]>> I I think the most obvious one that I I think people tend to talk about is you come with a very different perspective. You grew up in a a different culture, or you've grown up in an education system that teaches you to think a different way than a resident Canadian would think.

[00:03:53]So, when you see a problem in Canada, you actually approach it from a different perspective than a Canadian would. So, that might give you a leg up on on the Canadian, you know, resident Canadian entrepreneur because now you're bringing a different solution to a an age-old problem. So, you can come up with something new for consumers to purchase from you or for your customers.

[00:04:13]>> [music] >> Oh.

[00:04:16]Thank you so much for watching the podcast. I really appreciate you taking the time from your business schedule to be with us today.

[00:04:24]And I would like to take this quick moment to say thank you to all the people who are helping me out. Sergey with the visuals, Angelica with the social media marketing, and Intrinsic Innovation for providing us with this beautiful space.

[00:04:37]All the necessary links are in the comments below. Don't forget to like, comment, share, and subscribe. It really helps the channel grow. So, please spread the love. And I highly encourage you to watch the episode until the end because there's more interesting things that we'll be sharing today.

[00:04:53]Thank you.

[00:04:56]So, thinking outside the box does really help out in terms of that. And I mean, maybe it's thinking outside the box is a bit of a um overutilized word these days.

[00:05:06]>> But, definitely it's something that I would guess the the people who haven't been in the box can definitely leverage in terms of finding different ways of fixing a problem.

[00:05:16]>> Exactly.

[00:05:17]>> Because when I look at it even from a perspective of when I'm helping uh or more my wife, to be honest, helping my kids with math mathematics, the way they solve the problem right now is different to the way we were taught to solve this the same mathematics problem.

[00:05:33]>> Yeah.

[00:05:33]>> [laughter] >> You're so right about that. And being able to apply a different uh knowledge base to solve the same problem than than someone else is incredibly valuable.

[00:05:43]The other thing to look at is when individuals come from another region of the world, they also come with uh experience using technology that may not exist or maybe exist in a different format in our in our country. So, as an example, in a lot of parts of the developing world, they never had land-based phones.

[00:06:04]>> Okay.

[00:06:04]>> So, they immediately jumped to cellular technology. Whereas, you know, North America has had a hard time, um at least 20 years ago, moving from land-based phones to cellular technologies. And even today you see families they still have their land-based phone and they might have uh cell phones as well, but they're still reliant on that old technology. And and what we see in developing countries then is financial systems or the way transactions are done are now incredibly different from the way they're done in North America simply because of that technology jump.

[00:06:35]>> Yeah, they went from A to C without the B basically.

[00:06:39]>> Exactly.

[00:06:40]>> That's an interesting point because that's true. You know, if you were you have if you haven't seen the other ways, you're easily adapting that new technology that is probably cheaper and easier to exploit than the technologies of that people are trying to to get rid of basically.

[00:06:56]>> Exactly. And technology penetration as well. You look at some countries, let's say Vietnam, where over half the population is under I think 25 years old. And [clears throat] average mobile device usage I think is over two devices per individual, per capita.

[00:07:12]>> Yeah.

[00:07:13]>> Which is amazing. So, some people have three, four phones, which is unheard of in in Canada. Well, there's some some people who like to have lots of phones, but for the most part we have our single cell phone.

[00:07:23]>> Yeah, and maybe a work phone on top of that and that's kind of it. It's interesting, but to your point, yeah, like multiple SIM card phones, multiple phones is something in is even in my culture.

[00:07:33]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:07:35]>> And I guess the other thing is also depends on the competition in that country, like you were talking about phones, right? Like if it's cheap to buy a phone, if it's cheap to buy data, it's you'll be able to afford it.

[00:07:47]>> Yeah.

[00:07:48]Um yeah, and I think you brought up a good point there is is why is it cheap? So, in Canada, cell phone technology is a little more expensive because our geography.

[00:07:57]We are a small population distributed amongst a large land base. So, things like cellular technology is more expensive because we need more cell towers per person.

[00:08:06]Things like post mailing something, shipping a package across the country, more expensive because again it has to go further. There's less population to subsidize the overall network. So, when you look at China with smaller land base in Canada, but a population that's 25 times the size of Canada, shipping in China is incredibly cheap. I can buy something, you know, 50-cent product and have it shipped to my door in 24 hours with no shipping cost.

[00:08:34]>> Um I That that does make a lot of sense because when you look at um at the end of the day, what do businesses want to do? It's make money.

[00:08:42]>> Yeah.

[00:08:42]>> And of course, um if you're investing to something, and I guess that's one of the reasons and one of the difficulties why, for example, well, if we're talking about Calgary, that there's no train between Calgary and Edmonton because the cost don't doesn't uh justify itself.

[00:08:55]Whereas, if you look at China, they're building high-speed trains uh well, regularly because they gain there's enough of a population base to justify those expenses.

[00:09:04]>> Exactly.

[00:09:06]>> But speaking of China and speaking of Vietnam, um I know that you have an office in Malaysia, but you also do a lot of business with, again, Vietnam, with China, with Singapore.

[00:09:16]And so, what made you choose those regions as a focus for Intrinsic?

[00:09:22]>> I I think in our early days of working with uh newcomer entrepreneurs and just looking at what regions entrepreneurs applied from, the significant demand was from Southeast Asia and North Asia and China.

[00:09:35]Um so, just simply by that, we started getting a lot of experience working with individuals from those countries. Uh, my co-founder, Alec Wang, is also, uh, from China. He's spent 20 years in Calgary, so he's really very much a Calgarian now.

[00:09:48]>> Yep.

[00:09:49]>> Uh, but because of his time in China, he has very deep relationships with, uh, it large corporations, uh, government, uh, you know, different officials, different individuals in China. So, that brings us a very strong network in that region.

[00:10:05]Uh, and then what happens is outside of that region we start to meet individuals during our travels and and start to, uh, just in our discussions, develop a relationship, uh, find synergies, find commonalities that we want to work together on.

[00:10:19]And so, our Malaysia office really was founded through that. We found an individual, she's just turned 30 this year, incredibly hard working individual, super connected, super successful in in her own way in Malaysia. And we chose her to be our CEO. And it was really, you know, a multi-year relationship before we made the decision to have her lead that office. But, because of our relationship with that individual, that's why we chose Malaysia instead of somewhere like Vietnam or somewhere like, uh, Thailand.

[00:10:49]>> So, relationships can really influence the decision making.

[00:10:53]>> Exactly. For us, relationships, uh, precede opportunity. So, if we have a strong relationship with an individual, there's trust there, and then we can trust that individual to bring in business, no matter what country that we're operating out of.

[00:11:09]>> I think that's a very good point that you raised because sometimes people think that the opportunity precedes the relationship.

[00:11:15]>> Mhm.

[00:11:16]>> But, if you invest in good strong relationships, they will develop into opportunities because there's trust, because there's common interest, and, uh, if you're working with someone who you enjoy and you have similar views, you're going to be even more successful.

[00:11:30]>> Exactly. A business partnership is like marriage. You're working with this individual for many years and sometimes it's even harder to get a divorce than an actual marriage. So for us, we look at >> [clears throat] >> relationship first. We want to make sure we enjoy working with individuals that we partner with. And again, because we've developed that relationship, we have that very strong trust in in that leadership.

[00:11:54]>> So, when you're talking about relationships, and I'm going to ask you some questions on the VC side of things.

[00:12:00]Um again, yeah, we'll have conversations. You would hear a lot of them online where people are have had the opportunity to raise funds and they're talking about their experience.

[00:12:12]But I want to shift the gears in terms of when you evaluate a company from a VC perspective to participate or even maybe not yourselves, but introduce someone who would participate uh in in the company, what kind of a things do you look at from an evaluation's perspective?

[00:12:28]>> I think I'll caveat my I say with every investor is very different and our work involves working understanding cultural expectations or cultural uh understanding. So, for example, American investors sometimes really appreciate a cold reach out. They'll respond to an a phone call or a cold email uh or even just a very very lukewarm introduction.

[00:12:52]Uh In my view, Canadian investors are less willing to do that. We're very much more relationship based. So, especially myself, if I get a cold email or cold phone call, I'm probably not going to respond favorably to that uh you know, entrepreneur.

[00:13:08]>> Yeah.

[00:13:08]>> It's going to take a relationship to be built first before you try to do your pitch on me. Uh just like any sales call in Canada, if you're trying to sell something in Canada, door-to-door is hardly going to work successfully. It's going to take many months of relationship development before you're able to land that first sale. And I think investors in Canada are very much the same way. We want to see you establish a relationship. We want to see you build your product or build your company.

[00:13:38]Meet the milestones that you say you're going to meet. And only after a year or 2 years, then maybe ask us for money. Cuz now we've seen your journey. We've seen you actually fulfill what you've said you're going to do.

[00:13:53]And then we have that trust now and we're ready to invest.

[00:13:56]>> So you're bought in already from a story perspective.

[00:13:58]>> Exactly.

[00:13:59]>> On this note though, when you're talking about, let's say, Canadian startup ecosystem. Because sometimes when, especially people from a little less developed countries, they look at the US, look at Canada, they look at the Western Europe as places where you will come, you will start a company, and you will get millions in overnight.

[00:14:19]Which is of course, um, not usually the case, to put it uh, diplomatically.

[00:14:23]But what would you say are kind of those wake-up calls that you would say like to people that, "Hey guys, you know, this is the reality." I would say like for example, relationships, like you have to build a relationship before you go and start cold calling and raising funds. What other things would you suggest that, "Hey guys, this is the reality of the Canadian startup ecosystem?"

[00:14:45]>> I I'd say show your commitment. Um, I think a lot of people come here and expect to start doing business right away. Um, whereas I think Canadians want to see you part of the community first. So if you are a entrepreneur trying to raise money in Canada, show how you're actually benefiting Canada, or how you personally or your team is involved in the Canadian ecosystem, or even just the Canadian communities.

[00:15:08]So I I guess an example might be if I'm investing in a in a startup, then I want to see that that individual is going to be present in not my daily life, but present in the community, so I can run into that individual and actually get updates from that person and not sort of lose track of of what they're doing just because they're in a faraway location.

[00:15:30]>> Yeah, not just, you know, take the money and go networking on the islands of billionaires kind of thing.

[00:15:36]>> Exactly. And then the the other part is, you know, Canadians tend to be a little more more quiet. We don't say no uh well, we we secretly say no, but uh we'll always if we don't want to invest we're not going to tell you that.

[00:15:52]Uh so, it's going to be sort of a very strange relationship in in the sense that you're going to keep following up with a Canadian investor and they might not say no.

[00:16:01]So, which may give you the feeling they're they really want to invest, but that may not be the case. So, I think my advice for any entrepreneurs talking to a potential Canadian potential investor would be just, you know, ask blunt questions in terms of investment.

[00:16:17]If you're getting the runaround, just say, "Okay, are you interested in investing now or do you want me to actually come back in 6 months and and update you on my story or is this completely not your interest and should I just uh go away?" Um but the other part of that is going back to relationship.

[00:16:37]So, you're not just talking to that investor because you want money.

[00:16:42]We value the continued relationship. So, if I see an entrepreneur that's totally not of interest to me, let's say it's a different sector, let's say it's a sector I've never invested in, I have no experience in.

[00:16:52]>> Yeah.

[00:16:52]>> My first answer will definitely be no, but I probably won't say that just because I'm Canadian.

[00:16:58]Uh but if that entrepreneur keeps coming back to me and instead of asking me for money either gives me updates or maybe says, "Hey, can we go have a coffee? Can I get some advice from you?"

[00:17:10]Um or hey, I saw this really cool product that's related to prior investments you have made. Uh so, making a introduction or showing that they actually understand what I like to invest in.

[00:17:21]>> Yeah.

[00:17:21]>> Over time, that relationship gets stronger and I start to trust that entrepreneur a lot more. Which means even though I've never invested in that sector, maybe after a year or 18 months, I would say, "Oh, well, actually I really like who you are as a person and I like how you're building your business and how you value your relationships with the community, with the ecosystem." I might actually invest at that point.

[00:17:45]>> So, we're looking at not just the money participation, but being there in general for and of course you're then investing not into the business, you're investing into the individual because you wanted to.

[00:17:56]>> much the individual. And you see that in Silicon Valley. It is entrepreneurs building or raising money on just a pitch deck. No product, no nothing built yet, no single line of code.

[00:18:08]There's a high success rate with second, third-time entrepreneurs because they've already built those relationships, they've already proven that they're able to build a good business. So, their next business they're able to raise money without doing anything to start.

[00:18:21]>> But if it's an immigrant entrepreneur and they built the business and sold it in their own country and that's a second, how can they leverage that experience here in Canada?

[00:18:31]>> That's a tough question. It in my experience, it's very difficult because you haven't built those relationships. So, even though you have a track record, how do you validate that track record?

[00:18:42]How does an investor in Canada actually see you've done this, you've sold a $10 million company. That's not a huge amount of money to go across borders to say, "Hey, I can do proper due diligence on that individual." So, unless it's a name brand company that you've sold and built and I can say, "Oh, you are So, I don't Okay, you are Elon Musk and I definitely will invest in you.

[00:19:05]Um It it it's definitely a hard sell. So, it goes back to relationships. Um but the other way you can do it is look at how people are connected because if you're are from a region where you've had an exit, you can find out, okay, who who in my region are connected to investors in Canada?

[00:19:26]>> I see.

[00:19:27]>> And then try to connect that way and then you get that warm referral in that way. So, for example, if I'm from Germany, I'll go maybe, okay, go to the Canadian trade commissioner in Germany and say, "Hey, I'm moving to Canada. I want to raise money in Canada.

[00:19:42]Do you know of any connections in Germany that can introduce me to Canadian investors?"

[00:19:48]>> And that way at least you will have a warm introduction. The game you can start up.

[00:19:51]>> Exactly.

[00:19:52]>> Your journey.

[00:19:53]>> Because now you have a expat >> Mhm.

[00:19:56]>> living in Germany who has connections in Canada, is trusted by those Canadian connections, and they can provide that warm introduction.

[00:20:06]>> And then, you know, we were talking about the things that people should be doing. But, you've probably seen some things where either they were red flags to you when you're talking to an individual, or maybe some mistakes that are just like, I think this person should have avoided it.

[00:20:21]>> Yeah.

[00:20:21]>> Something you could share along those lines?

[00:20:24]>> Uh for me personally, overconfidence is huge. So, it comes across as arrogance.

[00:20:29]So, if somebody is just overconfident, they're maybe exaggerating their their potential revenue in the future. Um they maybe dropping names. So, again, they're showing that they're super connected, whereas I have no way to validate that. Um that's going to turn me off as an investor. That's going to make me lose trust in that individual. Versus if they're just honest with me, come to me, I mentioned earlier, seek advice, just ask questions, um ask about my expertise and how I can help >> Yeah.

[00:21:00]>> you as an entrepreneur. I think that helps me gain more comfort in in you as a person.

[00:21:05]>> It's interesting because name dropping is something that turns me off as well when I talk to someone.

[00:21:13]And of course, um you know, being a long time banker, you have different types of individuals and of course some of them would name drop a lot. Of course.

[00:21:22]Every time a person name drops, I think they're not actually what they're saying, you know, and um it gives the opposite impression. Whereas in some cultures, I know it's a thing because I without naming the cultures, but I know in some cultures it's a preference that you were name dropping and it kind of raises you in their in the your counterpart's eyes.

[00:21:43]>> Yeah, of course, but I think in a Canadian cultural context, uh name dropping actually reduces your credibility.

[00:21:49]>> Mhm.

[00:21:50]>> Unless you can get that warm introduction.

[00:21:52]>> So on a cultural basis, so we would say name dropping, don't do that.

[00:21:58]Um don't be just with the transaction, be with the relationships.

[00:22:01]>> Yeah.

[00:22:02]>> Um Anything else that an immigrant who's already here maybe is thinking about starting a innovation business and regardless of the sector or is planning to move to Canada and continue their startup journey here?

[00:22:15]>> Yeah. I think there's one part that I'm a bit torn on. So if you're an immigrant or newcomer to Canada, or first or even second generation Canadian, go to your uh your ethnic community uh organization centers.

[00:22:33]Because those people again, it's about relationship, but those individuals will be probably likely to support what you're doing because they feel connected to you. They feel similar to you because they're also in Canada, they're also from your native country. Um so you can start to build relationships in that way, definitely. But I think some people take that too far in the sense that they only stay within that group. So the caveat to that is while you're doing that, make sure you start to go to other chambers or other organizations to expand your network outside of your your ethnic identity.

[00:23:07]>> That's a really good point.

[00:23:09]There's a lot of people that and I've talked to a number of those individuals as well where they're like, "Oh, I'm just talking to my own people and I don't have anyone outside." But then how are you building real relationships and how are you making Canada home as well if you're not if you don't have And and I'm talking only about kind of the Canadians, but I'm talking about in general because there's so many different communities.

[00:23:30]>> Yes. And we follow or I believe in the lean startup concept. So Steve Blank does a really good job with coaching the lean startup in the sense of customer discovery, market validation. So if you're sticking to one ethnic group in terms of your initial product development, you will likely be missing out on a huge market because now your product is super tailored to one market, one potentially quite small market.

[00:23:57]Whereas if your discussions involve, you know, a much larger group or broader or diverse group, now your market your customer discovery market validation is done in a broader set and applies to a much larger customer base.

[00:24:11]>> So what you're saying is you do want to focus on a certain product. So don't be too too broad and because then you will have too much market and then people won't really know where you what you're doing. But then don't do it too narrow because then you will have a very small market.

[00:24:25]>> Exactly. Especially your initial customer discovery exercises. That's why I say I was torn on going to your ethnic community group.

[00:24:33]It's a great way to start, but it's kind of the same as selling it to your your family or your grandma.

[00:24:38]>> Yeah.

[00:24:39]>> Of course they're going to say they want to buy it. So you need to go to some uncomfortable conversations or some groups that you're not familiar with and and try to sell your idea. And when those groups are willing to give you money or something of value, that's when they say you've got something. Build your business based on that.

[00:24:55]>> So if market validation is an amazing place to start for just understanding if your idea is valuable, right?

[00:25:03]>> Okay, good.

[00:25:04]>> And um when you're looking at um raising funds, cuz there are different avenues to raise funds. We're talking about >> [gasps] >> uh investors, we're talking about government grants, talking about banks that could potentially lend money to a startup.

[00:25:24]But when we're talking about these different avenues for businesses who you helped move here to Canada, what have you seen be the most successful in terms of which avenue they would they would pursue?

[00:25:40]>> I think um if you're a newcomer to Canada or even starting a business in Canada, you need to understand that grants will not come right away. Government money, there's a lot of government money. Canada has a great reputation for subsidizing startups or providing uh innovation grants. Um SR&ED, which is scientific research and engineering design tax credits, um even non-dilutive grants.

[00:26:05]But I find startups expect to be able to receive those right away.

[00:26:09]They can't. It's again relationship building. You need to build your relationship with the government representatives. They're the investor, so treat them just like you would treat uh an equity investor. Build the relationship, get them to know your journey, and it probably will take actually you know, unless you are iterating your design very fast, you're putting a lot of your own money in, or you're raising money outside through friends, family, or angels.

[00:26:34]Probably takes 6 to 18 months before you can get that government money. So, it takes time. I think people misunderstand how how difficult it can be. And then with newcomers, it's even harder. Because if you're here on a work permit or even a PR, there is I I a misconception in government that it's more risky. Um or the government qualifying criteria may not apply to you.

[00:26:57]So, it might take you two to three years before you're able to access government grants.

[00:27:02]>> So, just because again, you are starting a business in Canada doesn't mean that you're going to get those grants straight away.

[00:27:07]>> Exactly. So, I'd say your priority is building your relationships. So, if you do identify a grant or even an investor that you think is highly applicable to what you're doing, build the relationship before asking for money.

[00:27:22]>> Understood. And then I just want to talk about industries as well because you're in the, you know, tech innovation industry.

[00:27:29]But [sighs and gasps] there could be different immigrants who are thinking about different styles. There could be agriculture or agritech for that matter.

[00:27:38]It could be clean tech, especially in Alberta with the oil and gas industry being strong.

[00:27:44]It could be something in the automotive industry. There's so many different industries. From your experience, what industries have you seen get the most traction in Canada?

[00:27:55]>> I think uh you need to look at what the government focus areas are because that generally trickles down to the ecosystem development. So, in each region, if you're in Vancouver, BC, if you're Calgary, if you're Ottawa, so uh Toronto, they'll have different sector focus areas. So, Calgary Economic Development has their areas of sector focus, but the Alberta government also has their own sector focus areas. And they may not be exactly the same as Calgary Economic Development. So, you need to choose where you land based on your sector.

[00:28:31]I think in Alberta, very much focused on agriculture and agriculture technology, protein development. Uh done a lot of work in AI. Canada I think is top two or three in the world for artificial intelligence and that's partly because we have Amii out of Edmonton >> Mhm.

[00:28:48]>> as a research institute. Uh Calgary has a quantum research institute. So, we've done a lot of work in quantum as well.

[00:28:55]So, again, government money is going into those fields. So, there's a trickle-down to startups and investors coming in to also look at those fields.

[00:29:03]Um life science uh say manufacturing, but more uh it's called clean manufacturing. So, rather than just traditional manufacturing. So, >> If we were to say if I'm thinking about a startup, try to understand also what kind of government support systems are available in the industry.

[00:29:23]>> Exactly. Because that gives you a good idea of sort of where the ecosystem will evolve into.

[00:29:29]>> Okay. But, if we're talking about like today's world and we're talking about how trade diversification is being top-of-mind for everyone.

[00:29:38]In your opinion, for Canada to stay competitive on a global stage, what should be done today or what should be changed within the next decade, let's say?

[00:29:48]>> I I think we're starting to do it partly because of uh the US fallout from these uh tariff talks. Um but, things like the CPTPP, which is a comprehensive partnership in trade and >> Can you explain what it stands for, the so that our audience can hear >> is very difficult, but I believe it's called the comprehensive and progressive trade partnership something. But, what effectively it is is a free trade agreement between uh the Asia Pacific region, including Canada.

[00:30:18]>> Mhm.

[00:30:18]>> So, I think there's 11 member countries.

[00:30:21]Um don't quote me on that.

[00:30:22]But, essentially it eases trades between those countries. So, it's kind of like NAFTA uh of the old days.

[00:30:28]>> Mhm.

[00:30:28]>> So, now our government has focused billions of dollars on expanding our trade relationships with those member countries.

[00:30:35]Uh which is incredible and we saw when um our current prime minister got into power, I think he's spent more than half of time outside of Calgary or Canada, sorry.

[00:30:44]He's done I think double the trade missions that any other Prime Minister has done in all of these recent years.

[00:30:51]He visited China the first time a Prime Minister has done that in 10 years.

[00:30:55]>> In 10 years? Okay, I didn't know that.

[00:30:56]>> 10 years. So, the fact that this is happening, I believe our government has started to identify what needs to be done and in my opinion that is kind of reliance on the US and actually invest in expanding trade around the world.

[00:31:09]Help Canadians become comfortable with trading with countries other than the US because I think as as a Canadian and as working with entrepreneurs, we are overly comfortable, overly reliant on the US. I think regions, South America, Africa, uh Asia are a bit foreign to a lot of Canadians who are not comfortable dealing with those regions. We do a bit of trade more trade with Europe, but I think that's because maybe history and government relationship taught us to be more comfortable with those regions.

[00:31:41]Uh but having visited um so many countries in in Asia in the last couple of years, there's incredible opportunities and I'm glad to see that our government is actually starting to focus on those and lead trade missions into those regions.

[00:31:55]>> Maybe they saw the good work that Intrinsic was doing and they decided to piggyback on it.

[00:31:59]>> [laughter] >> Of course.

[00:32:02]>> And then just about the continuing the conversation about the future and again going back to the the international so not the international but the technology background.

[00:32:11]Um what do you think are going to be some of the changes especially with AI coming in um to play with again building businesses, raising funds, kind of um going global maybe even. But let's talk about raising funds at the moment.

[00:32:29]>> Uh I think you're going to have to be much smarter, much more well-researched uh because AI is changing everything.

[00:32:36]Mhm. So, if your business doesn't have to be an AI business, but it better use AI to make your business efficient because if you don't, you're you're not going to raise money.

[00:32:46]>> Yeah.

[00:32:47]>> Um So, I I think that's one thing.

[00:32:51]Um Yeah.

[00:32:53]>> And I guess AI will make the importance of the relationship building that you talked to earlier even more important just differentiate yourself of someone who is basing their research on artificial intelligence and someone who's actually building those connections.

[00:33:08]>> Exactly. And and AI is getting better. The ability for ability for AI to generate information, do research, and actually be accurate and correct is getting better.

[00:33:20]But I think by building those relationships, you can get your foot in the door. Um an investor still isn't going to look at a cold pitch uh you know, done by AI.

[00:33:29]>> Yeah.

[00:33:30]>> You know, it's not going to change in the future.

[00:33:32]Uh but investors now can also use AI to look at a larger number of pitches.

[00:33:40]So now, not only uh I get I guess you can liken it to resume screeners in corporations. So, when I apply to a job, if I don't have the right keywords in my resume, it doesn't even get to the person that's doing the hiring or the admin who's filtering the resumes.

[00:33:54]>> Yeah.

[00:33:54]>> It just gets rejected right away. I think pitches are much the same way. So, if you have a relationship and you've done work to identify the right investors and find a way to connect them through warm introduction, you can at least get your foot in the door and get a human to actually look at your pitch.

[00:34:09]>> I see.

[00:34:10]>> Even if the AI might have screened it out.

[00:34:12]>> Oh.

[00:34:13]And then and in terms of the last thing I want to ask you, and this is more of your personal advice.

[00:34:19]So, if there's one or two things that you would say to the immigrant entrepreneurs that are considering Canada, let's let's make it two questions. Let's say they're immigrant entrepreneurs considering moving to Canada and moving their business to Canada and continuing their startup journey here.

[00:34:35]>> [clears throat] >> What would be one advice or two advice you would give to that person?

[00:34:38]>> I I think uh I would say be patient.

[00:34:41]>> Mhm.

[00:34:42]>> Moving to a new country is not easy. It doesn't matter if it's Canada or or Japan or, you know, uh Venezuela.

[00:34:49]Takes a lot of time to basically transition your life. So, there's the legal process, actually applying for immigration, whether it's a work visa or a residency or citizenship. That takes time. But, there's also cleaning up your life in your home country.

[00:35:05]>> Yeah.

[00:35:05]>> Needing to make sure, you know, your family's taken care of, your assets are taken care of, your tax issues are taken care of.

[00:35:14]Um because when you move, uh that's sort of a whole new journey and you don't want to have a lot of uh your past, I don't want to say issues, but past um responsibilities affecting how you're building your life in your new country. Uh once you move to Canada, again, it's patience because you're building relationships. Uh a big part of it is resilience cuz you'll be lonely at first.

[00:35:37]>> Yeah.

[00:35:37]>> So, don't be disheartened. Uh keep going to, you know, networking meetups, just different groups just to meet new people and and explore because I I think Canadians are very welcoming as a whole.

[00:35:49]So, if you're showing up and you're saying, "Well, I want to contribute. I want to build my business. I want to actually build the community."

[00:35:54]They'll be happy to talk to you and and even though it will take months to build, you know, your life again, I I think it's uh will be very uh rewarding for someone coming here.

[00:36:06]>> Mhm. And honestly, from my experience, I can definitely say yes, Canadians have been uh very warm.

[00:36:13]If you are willing to show up, they will definitely uh you know, take a step towards you as well.

[00:36:18]>> Exactly.

[00:36:20]>> And and then maybe the last question then I'm going back to the people who are thinking about starting up a business who already moved here, maybe to your point, like second generation immigrants.

[00:36:28]Because of course there is you know people who are think about starting up uh a coffee shop or starting up I don't know like restaurant. But we're talking more about the innovation industry and talking more about tech and uh maybe clean tech agritech or something along the line that can actually make a significant change and improvement in the world of how we do things. Yeah. What would you tell those people?

[00:36:52]>> I would say do your research, but I mentioned uh the Lean Startup and Steve Blank earlier. So there's a really great course online for free called How to Build a Startup. And it's on [clears throat] Udacity, u d a c i t y.com.

[00:37:05]Uh free to take and it goes through a lot of those exercises on customer discovery and market validation.

[00:37:12]Cuz the idea of the Lean Startup is before you spend money you are validating your idea. Making sure that there is a market that is willing to pay you for what you're developing.

[00:37:23]Before you spend money. I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs spend a lot of money. I think one individual spent 200,000 of his own money developing essentially a social media platform.

[00:37:32]Which great if you're uh Zuckerberg, but I mean if you're spending that kind of money, maybe spend a little bit developing it.

[00:37:41]Thousand or two.

[00:37:42]But get customer feedback and listen to that customer feedback.

[00:37:46]>> I guess listening to the feedback is also important because sometimes I find entrepreneurs not really receptive to feedback.

[00:37:52]>> Right.

[00:37:53]That's That's so true. Entrepreneurs tend to be uh I I've done this as well, but they tend to be overconfident and a little tunnel vision, especially engineers and scientists. Cuz we I'm an engineer myself. We identify a problem.

[00:38:07]We solve it for ourselves.

[00:38:09]And think oh everybody will want that and nobody does.

[00:38:12]>> [laughter] >> Well Andrew, it's been a pleasure talking to >> Yeah, thank you.

[00:38:16]>> Thank you and thank you for sharing your insights.

[00:38:18]I'm sure there's a lot of things that our viewers will learn from this conversation.

[00:38:22]>> Right. Thank you so much, Samir.