THE OSHOW: TREASONOUS ACTS IN ALBERTA, FORD FIASCOS IN ONTARIO, CARNEY CLEVER SOLUTIONS FOR CANADA

Added: 2026-05-11

[00:00:02]When you care about current affairs, it's on the show.

[00:00:06]And when you want to get clear what's going on here, it's on the show.

[00:00:12]If you like the tune yourself, >> welcome to the OO, Canada's pro-democracy podcast. I'm your host, Laura Babcock, and it is so wonderful to welcome back to the show David Gray from the mighty province of Alberta. We love you out there, Alberta. We're worried about you, Alberta. And we're going to get into the latest in a crazy weekend of headlines coming out of Alberta. Uh but also, you know, there's other things going on in the world that we want to talk about. Touch base on how things are going in the war and our relationship with America because, you know, Carney putting out a different posture just this past weekend. What do we think is going on there? And of course, if you haven't seen the scandal panel yet, check it out. We do drop a lot of fbombs, but it seemed really worthy, especially talking about Ontario uh and what Doug Ford is doing in the latest scandal that we're apparently paying hundreds of millions to his friend for air. It sounds as stupid as it is, but it's right in front of our faces. So, uh we will talk about that. And uh on Wednesday, Charlie Angus, I'm going to be uh co-hosting the Midas Canada again with Charlie. So, you're going to want to check that out here on the O show.

[00:01:33]Uh, it's going to be an awesome conversation because Charlie is right on the cutting edge of the resistance in this country and he is as alarmed about what's going on in Alberta as I certainly am. Also, I want to thank everyone who's been buying our Canadian starter packages. I hope all of you enjoyed your Mother's Day and got your Mother's Day gifts from the O show in time. But people have also been ordering our starter, which is that beautiful hoodie and a mug for whatever you want to drink near the campfire Canada. Uh, so thank you for ordering and please go to the osho.ca and support Canadian business, Canadian made. Okay, >> when you care about current affairs, >> you know, that that's that is in the theme song. And Robin wrote that for us.

[00:02:11]She wrote that song for the O show when it was a local show and then changed it to Ontario in the lyrics when we went provincial and then when we went national, Robin was good to change it up again. And as a treat, I've got a bit of a new Robin song that she did about Doug Ford that I'll play at the end of this episode. So, thank you for bringing that up, David.

[00:02:31]>> We're getting to a point after the um documents that came out this weekend, the report that was filed by a prodemocracy group saying, you know, Russia is is mixing up in there and trying to make things worse. CBC had a documentary about how there are, you know, foreign actors working in the Alberta separation thing. I mean, when we have that kind of information and when CESUS said we should be aware of it just today, um, then I think Canadians have to say, where do you stand, Danielle Smith? Do you stand with these separatists who are aligning themselves with the Trump regime that has threatened our economy and our country's sovereignty, or do you side with the rest of Canada and getting a better deal for Alberta within that framework?

[00:03:12]>> The United Conservative Party of Alberta doesn't play footsie with separatists.

[00:03:17]They're in the back seat making out.

[00:03:20]>> The m the majority >> image.

[00:03:24]>> It's too early on a Monday morning for me.

[00:03:28]>> The majority of her caucus are separatists. They think they would be better off as a vassel of the United States than as a province in Canada because they're just that stupid. Uh it really bugs me. Uh, I was I did pretty well in my career. I could have gotten a green card. In fact, I talked about um moving to uh Oregon State uh for a job with their utilities commission, but I'm not leaving Canada.

[00:04:01]>> Are you kidding? And and 70% of Albertans are exactly the same or 72% of Albertans are exactly the same. Um we're not leaving Canada. Having said that, in this modern age where, you know, millions and billions of dollars are spent on propaganda and disinformation campaigns by malicious actors. Um, it is concerning that we may have a Brexit situation and u we're going to do our best here, those of us that aren't insane, uh, to make sure that doesn't happen. But having said that, I'll go back to the comment I made last time.

[00:04:39]We're going to end up if they lose with 300,000 wahoos with guns, uh, wanting to change it, you know, kinetically. And that's my big concern in terms of them winning the referendum. I have no concern that they're going to win the referendum without, you know, a billion dollars worth of dirty trucks.

[00:05:01]millions of you in Alberta had your data floated out there. What are the concerns just about the practical implications of that? How does that feel, David?

[00:05:11]>> Uh, well, I'm going to start karate classes because I'm I'm, you know, I'm go out publicly and I say things publicly.

[00:05:20]People know who I am. I presume they can now find my address. Do people have hope in Alberta that that they there's going to be some sort of um protection or some measure that can happen after this data breach to get them justice or compensation or something?

[00:05:37]>> No.

[00:05:39]>> Neil Daniel Smith has never in the 20 years that I've known her admitted a mistake. When I saw that a reporter asked the president a while back in the White House about two people from Alberta who said that they could take Alberta first and Saskatchewan and BC.

[00:05:55]They actually asked the US president that. Um when I saw that I was deeply alarmed.

[00:06:02]>> Uh well and I think you should be because these people are acting in what any other age would call treasonous ways.

[00:06:10]>> Right.

[00:06:10]>> Right. Um, honest to God, just get a green card and go if you The problem is that they can't, right?

[00:06:17]>> Um, we've got a number of people who think they can make it in Hollywood. Um, but they're delusional, right? That that's really the funny thing is that the only way they could get into the States is if they drag the rest of us in with them. Uh, and it's just pathetic.

[00:06:35]>> Yeah. the the key statistics that uh tells me what's going on. When you look at the amount of people in Alberta that believe complete disinformation, it's exactly the same as the number of people who tenatively support separation.

[00:06:51]>> Right. Right.

[00:06:52]>> Right. We're in a giant scop in a world of that needs to get cleansed of it. And unfortunately, historically, the way that we've cleansed from our society has been war, right?

[00:07:07]Um, and that's not a good way to do it.

[00:07:09]>> From all the experts I've had on this show and from all my background in communications, you have to fight fire with fire. You know, you can't just say, "Oh, my crazy neighbors are listening to crazy stuff, and therefore, let's just leave that 30% over there." Because we saw what 30% of MAGA could do in the US, right? We're seeing what's happening with Nigel Farage's party in the UK.

[00:07:28]It's pretty terrifying. Uh we see >> we're already living it. We have that fringe minority in charge of our government, uh destroying our health care system, our education system, um our environment, and any future prospects at the same time of having scandals that are equal to or greater than Doug Ford's. And I would argue that while Doug Ford doesn't shroud himself in the MAGA flag uh like like Daniel Smith seems much more comfortable doing, he has all the same policies, the same corruption, same uh trying to control, you know, I don't think he's gone far as book banning yet, but he's taken over the school boards here and he just put in his buddies are going to run the regions right over the elected mayors and councils. So he might come at it with a folksiertick and seem like he's anti-Trump, but he's doing the same stuff. It's the same playbook that Daniel Smith's using in Alberta to the same detriment of our public health services, our social safety net. They're ripping holes in it daily and and hoping that we're too distracted or concerned about other things, right? Or blaming it on the federal government or blaming it on Trump while they're doing it right under our noses.

[00:08:36]>> The strategies for right-wing authoritarians across the world, right?

[00:08:41]They're always the same. So, it's pick one enemy, never say anything nice about that enemy. Make sure that uh everything is blamed on that enemy. Blame the enemy for that which you are guilty of. Right?

[00:08:55]It's it's a really simple plan to manipulate manipulable people. Uh and that's the key weakness is that we have too few people able to apply critical thinking to the information that they're receiving. Right? and and because it's all a brand new set of weirdness, right?

[00:09:15]It's it's one thing to be able to go between newspapers and identify their bias. Uh it's another thing when it pops up as, you know, your aunt, right? Like that's the insidious um and destructive nature of the new propaganda going through social media because it doesn't come at you from the, you know, the Financial Post or the National Post or National Prostitute as I call it. Um, it comes from, you know, Aunt Bessie who all of a sudden doesn't like brown people, right, for some reason, right?

[00:09:47]It's always the same thing. It's always blame somebody else so I can get something more that I don't deserve, right? There are grievances that are real that Aunt Bessie has heard about.

[00:09:59]Uh, what propaganda does is it takes a little bit of a truth and then it changes the story behind it or changes what the solution to it is, right? Uh, and so there are kernels of truth. And I think if we reject people's arguments whole cloth and say, "Well, that's crazy, Aunt Bessie." Uh, as opposed to saying, "Well, why do you feel that way suddenly about immigrants?" Oh, it's because you had a friend who couldn't get a job. Oh, okay. And you heard about that in the online or in the national.

[00:10:23]Okay. Well, you know, like it it it's that unpacking of the idea and finding where that kernel of truth is and being able to say, "Yes, that's true. However, you know, X, Y, and Z are not factors in that." Like, but that takes time though, right? It takes time to to discuss and to decode where all this propaganda is coming from.

[00:10:42]>> The story you have to tell to get to the actual economic reality of most of these things is much longer than you can fit in a three-word phrase.

[00:10:52]>> Right?

[00:10:53]>> I don't know if you've seen the size of some of the demonstrations in Alberta over the last couple of years. Uh but they've been organizing and they've been demonstrating. Um it hasn't been continuous. It's been sporadic, but in I I do fear that one of the things that's come out is a fatigue about uh having to protest over everything. I warned people when Smith was up for election that you've got a choice of, you know, four weeks of campaigning or four years of protesting. We chose the four years of protesting, right? And that's the risk in a referendum is not that there's an overwhelming majority of uh people who want to separate, but that 100% of them go and vote. And I think the solution is to reseep the Chamber of Commerce conservatives from the end of time conservatives.

[00:11:50]>> These leaders are not gods. They're not infallible. And if they're going to drag down the brand of their parties, uh then get them out. you know, there might be someone worse coming up behind or not, but we still have to get rid of Ford and Danielle Smith.

[00:12:04]>> You know, it's it's funny. She probably picked up some points um among her constituency for being so obstinate, right?

[00:12:12]>> Uh people with no experience in actual negotiations, you know, industry or life in general love that sort of tough approach, >> right? uh people who actually do it for a living. No, that's not how you get to Yes. And you know, the clearest example of that is although people hated just hated Justin Trudeau for looking so good, right? Should have been a major penalty instead of just two minutes. Um and the environmental stuff which strangely Alberta used to lead in. We had the world's first carbon exchange in set up in 2007, right, to allow people to trade carbon credits.

[00:12:56]>> Yeah.

[00:12:57]>> Uh but even though he went and bought and rescued a pipeline from Alberta to Tidewater, the cost of, you know, well, I can't do the math that fast, but 35 billion divided by 40 million Canadians, right?

[00:13:14]uh you'll never get any credit for helping the industry even though that's what we're using now, right? It's it just drives me insane that identity politics has taken away from any sense of reality. I go back to thinking of what if we were cooperating because the corollery of all the turmoil in the international oil markets is that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for us to lock in as a reliable energy supplier to the world and greatly increase our exports, greatly increase the revenue of the province, greatly increase well not greatly increase because oil industry doesn't give much employment anymore.

[00:13:57]Um, I was going to say add jobs, but it will add some jobs. And of course, there's additional jobs that come in the rest of the economy from uh rich fat oilmen. If we had pragmatic and practical people in place, they would recognize very quickly that we need Canada much more than Canada needs us.

[00:14:21]Canada can buy oil and does buy oil from other places, right?

[00:14:25]It's a great blessing to our nation that we have this tremendous resource, but it's to the entire nation and the cost of developing that has been borne by the entire nation. If we went in with that uh attitude of some gratitude, there are actually other things that we could do inside of Canada that would be really beneficial. And I don't know if I mentioned this one last time, but I can tell you my concern this winter is that the US will stop all of its oil exports.

[00:15:00]And if the Gulf is shut down, uh Russia is affected by uh kinetic sanctions from Ukraine, you're knocking 25% of the world's oil supply off the table. Um, and Ontario and particularly the Maritimes will be screwed, right? You'll be out of fuel, >> right?

[00:15:22]>> Like can't run your truck at any price, right? Let alone 10 bucks a liter. So, it's going to be >> it's going to be very very difficult. I I really do um concern myself that we need to be much more pragmatic about things getting much much worse. I think it's good for us to talk about the scenarios that we're concerned of. I mean, you're an economist. You live in Alberta. You understand oil. You're paying attention to the straight of hormones as I am. Uh we see the ripples that have already started. You know that that's not stopping. They're coming for us. Um we have sure fertilizer and oil in Canada and that's a good thing. We're not in the same position as countries in Europe are and other places in Asia are right now with this with this this dreadful situation. But that doesn't mean that we're not going to be seeing higher prices in everything. We're going to see, you know, if we think food's expensive now, wait until those trucks can't get diesel to do the deliveries of the food, right? Look at the cost there.

[00:16:26]Uh grocery prices will go up, gas prices will go up, it'll be hard to sell vehicles because people will be trying to downsize. I mean, on and on and on it goes, right? Uh, the biggest most alarming indicator this weekend, since we're geeking out, and you're former economist, I by no means am, but one of the biggest indicators is the consumer confidence index. And it just scored in the US, the world's biggest consumer economy, the lowest it ever has since they started tracking it out of the year of Michigan, I think. Um, so what that says is that Americans aren't confident in the economy and their ability to purchase what they want. and the impact of them feeling that way. Not only did the Trump regime try to say that maxing out their credit cards is a sign of confidence, it's not. It's a sign of not having other sources of income to buy the necessities. Um, but a lack of consumer confidence means precursor to a recession, right? So, we are looking at a global recession most likely in this situation. I I don't know if you've heard anything counter to that theory from the economist you're paying attention to, David, but I haven't.

[00:17:27]>> Well, I think it's even worse. I mean, we're I don't know whether it's through sheer um stupidity and incompetence or by evil master planning, >> but the combination of the crisis that have been created for uh the the inputs to agriculture in combination with them chasing off all of the migrant workers in the United States is going to leave them in food shortage.

[00:17:56]>> Yeah. like they will not be able to grow enough food for themselves because they can't harvest it.

[00:18:04]>> We all see the problems I think now more clearly because we're in a state of of some crisis and chaos. We can learn the best lessons and work together to do the right things. I have to hold on to that hope. I know our viewers around the world, our listeners in 112 countries that have listened to this program, you know, we're all seeing the same things now and being awake to it is the first step in being able to get back to or get to a new forward. As Carney always says, you know, nostalgia is not a strategy.

[00:18:31]We have to we have to look forward at what we can do differently and better.

[00:18:36]If we had a government in Alberta that was truly Canadian, right, that looked to how can we add to this confederation, not just what can we get out of it, >> right?

[00:18:49]>> Oh my god, the things we could do. Do you know how much carbon fiber we can produce with bumen?

[00:18:55]>> No.

[00:18:56]>> It's fantastic feed stock for carbon fiber. Uh if carbon fiber is the new steel, then uh Edmonton is Pittsburgh.

[00:19:04]Wow.

[00:19:05]>> Right. Uh we have uh so many things that we can do other than what we've been doing.

[00:19:13]>> Danielle Smith's government can be taken down because the world and Albertans, the majority of Albertans are seeing how their life is not getting better with her in charge and her government. Um I hear from Albertans all the time about their education system and healthcare and the corruption that is happening in that province. and she like any other leader who has not made life better for people can lose. And people need to start talking about what does better Alberta look like? What does an Alberta that takes better care of its residents look like? uh what does innovation and and you know diversification in Alberta look like and how and sell that vision of hope and in Ontario. Doug Ford can be taken down because he has been shown to be the millionaire nepo baby who loves America and is willing to get a private jet uh at our expense rather than help with 85,000 people in homelessness.

[00:20:09]Right.

[00:20:09]>> The gravy plane.

[00:20:11]>> The gravy plane. And that will stick. So both of these leaders can be these populists can be voted out democratically uh be if the argument is made about their economic impact right uh if it's not about philosophy and it is about the pocketbook and it is about the family bills which I got to look at today I'm not looking forward to uh that is what gets these populists out of office historically around the world.

[00:20:37]Jonas Escola told us that when he was on the show last week. He said the argument about their economic malpractice and its impact on the lives of the voters is what drives them out. Not us screaming from the rooftops about how they are anti-democratic or they're, you know, separatist adjacent or they're or they're MAGA or whatever else. It's about, you know, are you better off than you were four years ago to quote Reagan, right? That argument there might be easier to make now, David, given the catastrophe that's coming out of the impact of the straight of foremost. So, I just want people to know, you know, there's a way to take these these governments down. It's through talking to your neighbors about how you were better off when they weren't running things.

[00:21:18]>> Can build a better economy. We can build a more robust economy. and we can build better lives for people all at the same time because it's all the same thing, right?

[00:21:31]>> Y >> uh we we obviously need some changes in taxation because like every one else we are running into what happens when you give you know 80year-old or you know billionaires 60 years of free path to grow their wealth. um and you end up with enormous wealth inequality that has a very bad impact on venture capital. Uh people that have uh you know family money want to preserve it and so they put it into the least risky most profitable things which tend to be things like buying all the houses in a city or buying all the farmland. Um, and that's a real problem because it it takes away from innovation and uh discovery which are the key aspects to economic growth. So I I haven't had a chance to sit with Mr. Carney ever. Um, we did spend a lot of time in Fort Smith when I was up north. Uh, and so I share a connection with his birthplace. Um, but I suspect that we'd agree on most things and the things that we don't agree on, I probably am missing something. So, I'm pleased, you know, from somebody who knows stuff that there's somebody who knows even more stuff in charge right now. There's not a day that I don't wake up and say after I listen to the news, okay, Carney heard the same news, smarter than I am, has a majority government now. I'm sure he's putting in things to protect Canada.

[00:23:04]that's why we hired him for the job. He hasn't done everything perfectly and he can't fix everything. Uh but he certainly gives me confidence that somebody else who knows more than I know is addressing these issues. And Canada, Alberta, you can defeat Danielle Smith by just looking at her economic record for the province and talking to your neighbors about was their life better before she became premier and Ontario.

[00:23:30]Just talk to your neighbors and say, "Was your life better before Ford became premier eight years ago? Has he done the things he promised or has he made things worse and put us into the largest subnational debt in the world which our grandchildren will be paying for for generations?" Talk about what they have actually done. Not what they stand for, not their latest scandal, not their latest spin. talk about what they have done for your pocketbooks, for your bank accounts, for your health care, for your education, and then kick them out of office and build a better province. And let's work with the federal government to do that. We cannot give up on our beautiful Canada, on the ways that we can have prosperity. We are at a moment that could be Canada century, but it's going to take all of us rolling up our sleeves and fighting against these premers, and I know there are others that are not helping the people that they're supposed to represent. Uh, on that note, David Gray, whatever you're up to, I can't wait to hear about it at another time. Thank you for this honest assessment of where we are as a country and as Albertan and what we need to do about it. Uh, it's hard, but it's helpful because we're in this together.

[00:24:41]So, we got to know what we're dealing with.

[00:24:43]>> Always a pleasure, Laura.

[00:24:45]>> Thanks so much, David. Take care.

[00:24:52]>> If you're feeling like you've been had one scandal after another, it's making you mad. You're in Doug Fords, Ontario.

[00:25:02]And while you're waiting in a gurnie in the old ER, Doug's off to the cottage for some RNR. We're in Doug for Ontario.

[00:25:12]Just sign yourself up to a gambling site or go drink in the park cuz that's all right. There's lots of freedom for intoxication, but no freedom of information.

[00:25:25]Air flu in every grocery store, but no place to recycle anymore. We're in Doug Fords, Ontario.

[00:25:35]There's no future for students. No sap loans. His buddies are building on a green belt zone in Doug Ford's Ontario.

[00:25:46]A plane, a tunnel, a luxury spa. Well, that's Doug's legacy so far. No respect for hospitals or education. No freedom of information.

[00:25:58]Woo! A general strat is what we need.

[00:26:01]Let's vote out hypocrisy and grief.

[00:26:04]We're in Doug Fords, Ontario.

[00:26:08]Ah, this ain't Doug Fords, Ontario.

[00:26:14]Ain't Doug Ford, you got to go.

[00:26:23]When you care about current affairs, it's on the ocean.

[00:26:27]And when you want to get clear what's going on here is on the ocean.

[00:26:33]If you like to stay in the know, tune yourself into the ocean. It's the ocean.

[00:26:42]And with a lot of great cash, she puts them to the test on the O.

[00:26:47]Yeah, there's no doubt they'll be calling them out on the O.

[00:26:51]You got to stand for something or fall for it all. Canada, you hear the call of the O show. It's a podcast. The showc your merch