Can Canada deepen economic ties with China without sacrificing security and human rights?

追加: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]The Canada China economic relationship is significant. Total bilateral trade between our countries reached 125.1 billion in 2025.

[00:00:14]We are committed to growing this relationship responsibly with a goal of increasing exports to China by 50% by 2030 while safeguarding Canada's economic and national security interests.

[00:00:35]>> For the first time in 10 years, China's foreign minister is in Ottawa to get some facetime with the prime minister.

[00:00:42]Wang Yi his three-day trip is kicking off today with a tet a tet with his Canadian counterpart foreign affairs minister Anita Anan on the agenda the Canada China relationship investment and global security now trade was also a central topic with anan saying that Canada aims to increase exports to China in the next four years by 50%.

[00:01:05]Wang also met with Prime Minister Mark Carney for a photo op. media were allowed in in that room for just 30 seconds before quickly being ushered out. It was long enough though to capture that handshake. All comes following years of strained relations and it wasn't that long ago that the prime minister Mark Carney called China the biggest security threat to Canada.

[00:01:27]But over the last year, Carney has traveled to Beijing and called the progress that has been made a quote very basic reset of the relationship.

[00:01:37]Joining me now to talk about that relationship between Canada and China and this meeting are two experts on that final file. Vina Neabula is the vice president of research and strategy at the Asia-Pacific Foundation and Michael Kavri is a geopolitical adviser and former Canadian diplomat who spent over 1,000 days in a Chinese prison. Thank you both for being here. Ven, I want to start with you on this. The two ministers spoke about progress that the two countries have made and the deepening of this relationship. Are you confident that the Canadian government is going to put enough guard rails around that relationship going forward?

[00:02:13]>> Thank you first of all for the invitation to be here. Um, you're asking the absolutely correct question. That is really the crux of the issue. Can Canada deepen economic engagement where it serves our interests while at the same time protecting um national security, economic security as well as human rights and other issues that are important to Canadians. Now, so far we haven't heard much about the guardrails publicly. We only know that the government thinks they're important and they should exist. And I think the purpose of this visit from Foreign Minister Wangi is broadly to have those difficult discussions. So I'm assuming that in the meetings with foreign affairs minister Anan today as well as in the meetings with Prime Minister Carney there were discussions about things like which sectors will be open for Chinese investment which areas will not be right how they define issues around foreign interference around transnational oppression what kind of mechanisms will be set in place to deal with those difficult issues and challenges because all we're hearing publicly especially in that short clip that we saw of the opening statements from the two ministers was about the positivity in the relationship, the momentum in the relationship and the importance of the commercial and economic ties. A lot of questions still remain about the guard rails, what they will look like and how the government will be managing them.

[00:03:30]>> Michael, how important is that? Because Canada is trying to attract investment.

[00:03:34]Prime Minister Carney has been very clear about that. But how does Canada make sure that they're allowing the type of investment from China while also protecting this country's interests?

[00:03:45]That's why you need a holistic strategic framework, Mike. You need to have a sense right away what Canada wants, not just economically, not just on trade, but also what it needs to protect in terms of n national security and coordination with allies and like-minded to protect itself. So that means clear guidelines working out there. The challenge, I think, is going to be pushing back diplomatically and judiciously because China is going to want to keep expanding influence in economic engagement across the board because it wants access to Canadian minerals, natural resources, energy, and agra food. It ideally wants to even own the means of extraction and production, right? And there's going to be that temptation given the prime minister's agenda to grow the economy, to boost productivity, to expand trade, uh to at the same time be be willing to make the painful choice that some things are not worth selling because the risks are too high. So, it's going to require being clear and firm and holding to those lines of what which sectors and which types of investments are not acceptable uh to try to limit and manage that influence while still reaping the economic gains where possible.

[00:04:54]>> Michael, do you have any indication from what you've seen from this government that they are ready to make those tough decisions right now?

[00:05:01]My impression so far is that the prime minister is laser focused on economic growth understandably on you know Canada needs a strong economy to be strong. Uh my concern is whether there's enough of a serious discussion taking in of intelligence from the Canadian security community and strengthening not just national defense, not just spending on defense uh which obviously is necessary in this world, but doing more to strengthen things like the Investment Canada Act, strengthening uh safeguards on uh for example export controls, on transnational repression, on foreign influence and interference, right?

[00:05:39]Because the the real the critical risk I think with China that is the hardest to defend against is not one single case or one element of corruption for example or one particular example of coercion. It's a kind of slow gradual drip drip of concessions made in return for small rewards and then a slippery slope in which a critical mass of Canadian companies for example or people or members of parliament or or districts fall under the sway of the Chinese Communist Party. not necessarily because they've been bribed or directly controlled, but because their interests have been aligned with China's and then that divides the government and it makes it unable to have firm policies on things where it's necessary. So that requires vigilance. It requires clear regulation and frankly it requires scrutiny from media like you. And so Vina, how key is that when you consider the fact that the deal that they had signed in Beijing, there are some elements of it that will expire or need to be extended at the end of this year.

[00:06:38]um thinking about the tariffs on uh canola, what does Canada have to do to make sure that there are either, you know, as we've talked about those guard rails around that deal or making sure that it is truly beneficial for our country?

[00:06:50]>> Yeah. So, you're absolutely right. The deal that was signed in January will expire at the end of this year and of course the work on expanding uh and extending that deal is already underway.

[00:07:01]That's also part of the discussions that are taking place today and will continue to happen at the working level. But I think in addition to the point around having those difficult conversations in private and making sure that the mechanisms are in place um to protect our interests, we also need to be able to have some conversation about it publicly because in a democracy like ours, it's not enough to just say that all the hard conversations are happening in private. There needs to be some in assurance to the uh communities that are most impacted by it that in fact transnational repression was raised, foreign interference was raised and that these issues are not being put on the back burner in order to advance economic priorities which are important and on a day like today Mike when we are hearing about a recession a technical recession that's happening in Canadian economy of course we all want to make sure that the Canadian economy grows and China is the second largest market but there are issues that need to be dealt with both on the national security side but also on the economic security side. Right? We have agreed to bring in 49,000 of Chinese EVs. I think the more interesting part of that deal is what happens next in terms of possible production of EVs here by Chinese companies. Right? And when we get into that kind of a conversation, then it's not just about the Canada China relationship. It also gets into the Canada US relationship and the sort of the kind of economic integration that we want to have with the US and the triangulation that the government needs to do visav our US relationship and those discussions as well as China. So my point on all of this is to say that these are very difficult diplomatic balancing acts that both uh our government need to do visav China but also visav Washington and we saw that when Prime Minister Carney was in New York yesterday. I mean he spoke about this strategic reset with uh China in a very different way. I mean he he called it sort of a modest reset rather than this new big strategic partnership again because he's trying to manage um expectations and understandings in Washington at the same time as he's trying to get as much economic benefit from the relationship with China as possible while also recognizing that there are many risks of allowing China to be more deeply embedded in certain sectors of our economy.

[00:09:18]>> I want to pick up on part of that with you. How important is it that human rights, transnational repression, and foreign interference were raised? But not only that they were raised in those conversations, but that the prime minister or foreign affairs minister says that they were raised and that message that is going out to Canadians here.

[00:09:36]>> I think that is critical. We do need some kind of public messaging. So there has been no media availability so far from the visit. Um, and it's fine if the guests, in this case, a foreign minister Wangi refuses to speak with Canadian media. But because we're in a democracy, our foreign minister and our officials do need to speak with the media and speak clearly about [clears throat] what they raised, how uh they are trying to advance those issues again for that public accountability, for public trust, and also to reassure communities that are impacted and because this issue hasn't gone away. Just two weeks ago, CESUS issued a report saying that China continues to interfere in Canada, continues to engage intimidation of diaspora communities and it's an issue also that's being watched not just here domestically but also uh in capitals around the world especially in the Indoacific. So Japan, Philippines, Taiwan, Australia, they're all watching to see is Canada really able to kind of walk that fine balance between pragmatism, which we all need in the current moment, and principles that matter to us all, right? Principles around human rights, around democratic solidarity, and that is what Prime Minister Carney has said he wants to do, principled pragmatism in terms of our foreign policy. But we haven't seen any details of that yet. Michael, I've only got about 45 seconds left, but how important is that for you to hear from the prime minister? That sort of principled pragmatism, but certainly the message that some of these issues on human rights, transnational repression were raised.

[00:11:10]I think it's critical that they were raised and I think it would be ideal if the government would actually specify the context and what exactly was raised about them because private conversations ultimately uh can't be accountable to the public and frankly I think it's regrettable that there hasn't been a press conference as well by uh foreign minister Wongi. Last time he was in Canada a decade ago he did a press conference but of course that ended rather difficultly. uh he was quite aggressive with the media. But there are a lot of questions that Canadians should be asking of China and they should have the opportunity to ask them of Wangi. I mean questions like does Beijing accept that Canada's engagement with China does not require political con restraint on Taiwan when Chinese officials ask Canada to have a correct perception of China?

[00:11:53]Does that mean they're asking us to stop naming the PRC as a security risk? Will China stop using market access as leverage to change uh Canadian policy on EVs, batteries, and clean tech? Will China accept Canadian rules on subsidies, data, cyber security, labor, safety, and local value added production? There's there's a lot of questions that we would like answers to.

[00:12:15]If we can't get them from Wangi directly, we're going to have to ask our own government.

[00:12:20]>> Unfortunately, we're all out of time, but I appreciate both of you taking the time for this conversation. Michael Kick and Vienna Jabula. Thank you both for being here. We appreciate it.

[00:12:28]>> Thank you.