Radio Interview - Cape Indigenous Heritage in Toponyms

[00:00:00]We were talking with this series of rivers net that we were talking about and you were like when you come back you want us also just get to know a bit of some rivers in the Western Cape but there are things that we learn as time goes on but let's start with that in Kwalwa.

[00:00:20]What are some of the rivers that you want us to learn about?

[00:00:22]>> Kamako Kamako Qunta Greetings to everyone. First thing I want to say is that we do have a live website undoqgo.org is live so if you want to view more of our work go to undoqgo.org there's going to be much more to be added onto the website but it's live so there is a centralized place now from undoqgo you can contact us directly at Sunday to go to university.

[00:00:49]Rivers They hold such an important place in the indigenous mind.

[00:00:56]The first river I want to talk about is a river that you will not see today.

[00:01:00]The river that has its source in the Table Mountain and it runs through the Cape Town CBD.

[00:01:06]Today it goes underneath the Castle of Good Hope.

[00:01:10]That is the river that we can credit for the very existence of Cape Town as a city and as a town today.

[00:01:18]That river is called Kamisa.

[00:01:21]Kamisa now I'm going to because you know I always break down these names.

[00:01:25]>> Yes.

[00:01:26]>> Kam >> [clears throat] >> or Kami is water.

[00:01:29]Particularly river water fresh waters.

[00:01:33]You would know the the monitor lizard which we call Ukam where does it live?

[00:01:38]>> In the water.

[00:01:39]>> Where specifically? Rivers. Yes that's why we call it Ukam. In fact the full name is Kamsholo or Kamsholo Kamiso also water amakamu yeah.

[00:01:51]Yes exactly. So Kamisa that Kam there is the water of the river. The sa at the end, think about the word for people that are spread all over the place.

[00:02:02]Bate sa. So, qami sa, the sweet water or the fresh water is for all or that have that that everyone can drink from. That is the name of the first river that that allowed for the first economic activities to take place in what then became Cape Town. But, the actual name is ủi gaeb. Ui gaeb. Ui gaeb means where the clouds gather.

[00:02:28]Now, if you look at Table Mountain, you know there's a clouds that always gather there. They call it the tablecloth.

[00:02:34]It's ui gaeb. It's the name of Cape Town. In another dialect, in Khoe mana, it's tui khaba.

[00:02:42]Tui khaba. And a good a brother of mine, a fellow indigenous activist, always says that khaba that khaba there is the same one as Khapa today. He always says that now that tui khaba is what people get the name Khap or Khapa from from Khaba.

[00:02:58]So, ui gaeb today.

[00:03:02]That river, which is hidden now, you'll see it underneath the Castle of Good Hope, and I think I'm not sure which street. I'm not sure if it's Buitengracht or Bree Street, but there's one of these streets that have trees along the road. It goes It's like canalized.

[00:03:16]>> Yeah, I think I heard that there are tunnels underneath the city.

[00:03:19]>> Yeah. Yeah, there there are a lot of tunnels, and a lot of the rivers of Cape Town are are in canals. They're canalized. So, you don't actually get to see the actual river, especially in cities. You see canals. Even if you walk, you know, along the Cape Flats in Manenberg, you'll see a river there. Along Gugulethu, you'll see a river. And in Mfuleni, there's a river. I mean, the name Mfuleni means at the river. You don't see them, though, because they're canalized for the most part, or people the the communities that are built sort of like there's a fence around, so they don't get to see the river. So, the first river I want to talk about is that river eh Kamisa. It's the river that gave us what we call Cape Town today because the community that lived along Kamisa, which was called Kamakwa. Now, kwa is a plural that is used generally for people but also for other things.

[00:04:10]So, Kamakwa means the people of water.

[00:04:13]The Dutch in the 1600s called them de Watermans.

[00:04:16]De Watermans, yeah, the water people.

[00:04:19]Eh so, they lived along this fresh water river. And that's how then they managed to trade with ships that came to dock when they were going to the East India run from Europe. So, these are Portuguese ships. These are eh [clears throat] Dutch ships. These are English Britain British ships. These are German ships.

[00:04:37]Eh and then from those activities of trading and exchanging things like ships and goats. And this is before 1652, by the way. 50 years before, 60 years before, before Jan van Riebeeck was even born, people were already trading there.

[00:04:51]The Dutch were here. The English were here. But they were not staying. They were passing.

[00:04:55]Same thing they did in the Eastern Cape.

[00:04:56]They were passing. Same thing they did in KwaZulu-Natal. And same thing they did in Limpopo. I mean, that's why they've got names for these places. You know, eh for example, the Portuguese in 1486 went to the Eastern Cape. 1486 Ekasi. They call it Rio do Infante, >> [clears throat] >> the river of Infante because Infante was the first Portuguese man to get off his ship when they reached that place. But we know the name is is Kama, which means sandy waters. Remember, Kama water. Kasi is sand. Another form is Khayb or Khab, which is Umhlaba.

[00:05:28]>> Yes.

[00:05:29]>> Yes. So, what I'm saying is that there were economic activities along rivers.

[00:05:35]Yes, and most towns are named after rivers because that is where economic activities were able to take place in the earliest times because you had water. You could form you could use them to make mud stuff.

[00:05:48]You could use the water to assist in you know mining processes for whatever reason to clean stuff. There was water it helped in agricultural processes whether in animal farming or crop farming. So wherever there was water our people built there and that's how the earliest economic activities took place along rivers and therefore most places in South Africa are named based on rivers. So that is the first river for today Amigza the river for all in the CBD of Cape Town. And that's how Cape Town formed.

[00:06:20]It owes its existence as a town as an economic city where there's economic activities.

[00:06:27]It owes that to the river Amagou. Uh another river I want to talk about is perhaps a river known as Eerste Rivier.

[00:06:37]Eerste Rivier. Most people wouldn't know though. They know Eerste Rivier as a place. It's a river, yes. But it is a river. It starts in these mountains here. Yeah, just here in Stellenbosch.

[00:06:48]Yeah. It starts here and it goes all the way through to that place known as Eerste Rivier. It means the first river.

[00:06:54]That's what it means. Now think about it from someone who's coming from the False Bay side. No, someone's coming from the mountains when they entering, you know, the Cape.

[00:07:04]That would be the first river they encounter. But next to Eerste Rivier there's another one, Kuils Rivier.

[00:07:11]Or Kuils refers to pools or puddles of water inside the river. There's like these little pools of water that you find inside the river and because there's those things then they call it Kuils River. And today Kuils Rivier is a town. It's a place not far from Eerste Rivier. You understand?

[00:07:30]But if you go to the False Bay side, the south not far from Muizenberg, there's a place called Deep River there. But do you know Deep River is an actual river.

[00:07:41]It is an Yeah, it's an actual river called Deep River, which means the river that is deep, of course.

[00:07:47]You know, so these are not just again, these are not just names that came out of nowhere. A lot of the times the rivers were observed and the names were given. But these rivers already had older names. They had original names.

[00:08:00]Many of the times what the Dutch did is they would ask the local natives, "What do you call this river?" Oh, we call it Amissa. "What does it mean?" It means the water for all. "What do you call that river?" Oh, we call it Kanat Samkana. "What does that mean?" It means the river that doesn't end. And then that's where you get the Africans name Riviersonderend.

[00:08:22]"Uh what do you call this river?" We call it Tabak Kama. "What does that mean?" The wide river. Or the broad river. Oh, that's where the Africans name Breede Rivier comes from. Because these rivers There's another one, Kuqa. Kuqa.

[00:08:36]Uh Here in Grabouw, there's a river there, Kuqa.

[00:08:40]Uh it They call it Bot Rivier today or Bot Rivier. You know what Bot is? It's It's fat, butter.

[00:08:47]Butter is taken from Bot.

[00:08:49]Yeah. So, Bot Rivier is the river of butter, the river of fat, Kuqa. The river where there's a lot of butter or fertility. Again, the Dutch took the name from the native names and translated them. So, these rivers, Eerste Rivier, Keurbooms Rivier, um Deep River, uh Another river now, uh not far from uh CBD, it's called Salt River.

[00:09:16]>> I know it.

[00:09:16]>> Yeah, but Salt River, interestingly, is a culmination of two rivers that come together, the Liesbeek River and the Swart Rivier.

[00:09:24]So, the Swart and the The Swart is also called Black River. Yeah.

[00:09:28]There's even a part of the network of roads uh there along M5 is called the Black River Parkway. There's a lot of roads that are just connecting. Yeah.

[00:09:37]So, the Black River and the Liesbeek River connect when they move towards Paarden Island and they form one river that feeds into the sea then. It's sort of like uh it's like like a lagoon or an estuary.

[00:09:50]That is called They call that the Salt River because the water is salty.

[00:09:58]Interesting fact about the Salt River, you know, in 1510 when the Portuguese tried uh to take Oh, to take people for granted in this land. 1510. This is 100 more than 100 years before Jan van Riebeeck. 142 years before Jan van Riebeeck came. 142 years. That's how many generations? That's almost uh six generations. Yeah. Yes.

[00:10:20]So, a generation is 25 years to 30 years. Now, in 1510 when the Portuguese tried being led by Viceroy d'Almeida, they were dealt with in 1510 there by the Salt River. d'Almeida was unalived there by the Khoi Khoi people, the people who live in the highlands, you know, who were past uh who were pastoralists, who owned the entire area of Rondebosch uh where there's UCT today.

[00:10:41]Interestingly, because it's a university and it's it's it's accredited to uh Cecil John Rhodes that he donated that land. Now, how do you donate land that had always had owners?

[00:10:53]How do you donate land that always had owners?

[00:10:56]Uh so, I want to say to you MFM radio station listeners that there's history behind these names. We're here at Stellenbosch University today. It's an educational institution. And I was looking at Stellenbosch University the the signs on the buildings. I think they need my assistance with translating the names actually. If you know if you know who's in charge, please con- contact the No, no, I'm serious. I think the entire city of Cape Town and the entire Western Cape need my services because some of the names, you know, are actually not correct. And I love I commend the effort, but it should be done right, you know. There's a building here. In In English it's written uh education. It's an education building.

[00:11:40]Uh in Isizulu it's written AYezemfundo.

[00:11:43]But AYezemfundo is not correct.

[00:11:47]Because AYezemfundo in Ndoni a building which is not correct.

[00:11:52]Isakhiwo semfundo. Yes, semfundo. That would be the correct way in Isizulu.

[00:11:57]Semfundo.

[00:11:59]The e-education building. Not AYezemfundo. Indoni indoni AYezemfundo.

[00:12:04]I believe it.

[00:12:05]Come on, guys. Anyway, so you That's Salt River. That is Keiskamma River.

[00:12:10]That Eastern River. Kamissa.

[00:12:14]Let me think of another river. Oh, Deep River. I also mentioned Deep River.

[00:12:17]Uh Let me talk about the bay itself.

[00:12:21]>> Yes.

[00:12:21]>> Because the rivers they usually meet.

[00:12:24]>> Yeah, they meet there.

[00:12:25]>> They meet there.

[00:12:26]Before we go, now we have the Table Bay.

[00:12:31]That's a That's another important part.

[00:12:33]When Kamissa River is discovered by the Dutch, it's because they saw the Table Bay first.

[00:12:40]Now, a bay is an inlet of water.

[00:12:42]It's almost like a C-shaped or cup-shaped inlet of water. It's indili in Isizulu.

[00:12:47]>> Indili.

[00:12:48]>> Indili, yes. So, they come into the bay.

[00:12:51]They notice a couple of things including the cape. A cape is intloko.

[00:12:56]That's why it's called Cape Town. It's intloko. It's a prominent projection of land. A tongue. The land is projecting.

[00:13:03]Just look at the map of Cape Town.

[00:13:05]There's capes everywhere. Not just Cape Town actually, the whole of South Africa. I always used to say, if South Africa was to get a new name it would have to be called the land of the capes because of how much shoreline we have from the west of the country all the way to the Limpopo the mouth of the Limpopo River. We've got capes all along. That would be one of the best ways to name the country. Anyway, so the Table Bay is what gave the Dutch the ability and the English [clears throat] and the German and the Portuguese and the Spanish and the French Huguenots the ability to come into the land through in in in the bay.

[00:13:37]That's why you've got Camps Bay, False Bay, Table Bay. In the Table Bay that's how you travel from the inland Cape Town to Robben Island. It's It's eating.

[00:13:49]>> Yes.

[00:13:49]>> That's the closer name. It's eating.

[00:13:52]Now, the people have added It's eating and salt.

[00:13:55]>> [laughter] >> But, you travel from the mainland to the island using the Table Bay.

[00:14:01]Now, our troops were taken in the 1800s including Makoma and others like Siolo, Langalibalele and many others were taken to Robben Island through the Table Bay. One of those leaders was a man called Ngqele, also known as Makhanda and that's the the place name in the Eastern Cape, the town. Yeah, former Grahamstown. Yeah. U Makhanda died here in the Table Bay.

[00:14:27]Died there in Robben in in in Bloubergstrand.

[00:14:31]He was with David Stuurman. There's an airport now there in Gqeberha named after David Stuurman. And the and the other brothers of David Stuurman like Andries Stuurman and Hans Trompette, who was his brother-in-law by the way. He was a chief. Yeah, Hans Trompette was a niece in the Zikali's. He was a Yeah, a niece. Yeah. He was a He was a chief there. So, he died in in the bay. So, when you talk about rivers, you must always also the bays because rivers usually start in high altitude, go all the way to sea level and they meet with the sea. Where they meet with the sea, this is where you have iTshwewa.

[00:15:07]A lagoon. Yes, a lagoon. You have iTshwewa or iTeku.

[00:15:12]iTeku. That's why you have In Durban it's called eThekwini, the lagoon place because that's where the uMngeni River meets the sea. eThekwini.

[00:15:22]Here, you've got the Lagoon Beach here in Cape Town. Here in Milnerton, not far from Robben Island where Viceroy Dalmeida was killed at the mouth of Salt River. You've got the Lagoon Beach because there's literally a lagoon there. You could literally Literally you can see it.

[00:15:38]Literally. So, all these things are connected. However, a lot of these towns, as I did say, are named after rivers because rivers provided sustenance. They provided conducive conditions for economic activities to take place. Those economic activities then you know, gave gave rise to these towns.

[00:15:56]It's very hard to have a town where there's no water supply. This is why Lesotho is selling water to South Africa today.

[00:16:03]The biggest river in South Africa is the source is in Lesotho.

[00:16:07]I mean, we know Lesotho is part of South Africa, but that's for another day.

[00:16:10]That's for another day.

[00:16:12]Uh another river >> [laughter] >> is the river called Bergrivier. It's When you want to cross the Hottentots Holland Mountain, when you want to go to Worcester, Paarl, there's a big river there called Bergrivier.

[00:16:24]I mean, it makes sense. The Boland Mountains, the Hottentots Holland Mountains.

[00:16:29]That's what the name Berg is. It's a mountain. So, the river crosses the mountains, it's called the river in the mountains, Bergrivier.

[00:16:37]>> And it does.

[00:16:38]>> It does cross the mountains, yes.

[00:16:40]Talking about Berg, we have Simonsberg right here in Stellenbosch.

[00:16:44]You know who that Simon is?

[00:16:46]>> Mhm.

[00:16:46]>> Simon van der Stel.

[00:16:49]Stellenbosch.

[00:16:50]>> Yes.

[00:16:51]>> Simon van der Stel.

[00:16:53]He was a half white, half Asian man in the 1600s, the second governor of the Cape after Jan van Riebeeck.

[00:16:59]He was a colored man.

[00:17:01]The second governor of the Cape.

[00:17:03]Stellenbosch is named after a colored man.

[00:17:05]>> Wow.

[00:17:06]>> From the 1600s, Simon's Town is named after a colored man. From the 1600s, he was the first property owner of Constantia.

[00:17:13]That's why you've got Simonsberg here, the mountain of Simon. But anyway, uh another river very very important. Um after Brak Rivier, I did mention it a bit, is Rivier Zonder End and Brier Rivier. And you've got Brak Rivier. So you have Groot Brak Rivier and Klein Brak Rivier. What are these rivers?

[00:17:36]Well, Rivier Zonder End means river without end.

[00:17:43]>> Yeah, they have no end.

[00:17:46]>> That's it. Amaty'am akanq'am. That is the proper name. Waters that have no ending point. It's just a river that keeps on going.

[00:17:53]Brier Rivier Amaty'am umtyaba. The broad river, the wide river. And then you've got Brak Rivier now. You have the Groot Brak and the Klein Brak. Now this is important to me because what is Brak?

[00:18:10]>> What is it?

[00:18:10]>> Brak means brackish in English.

[00:18:13]Brak means salty-ish. Remember we said kam.

[00:18:19]Kam refers to fresh water. Amaty'am ngamanzi omlambo.

[00:18:23]>> Yes.

[00:18:24]>> Brak is not fresh. But it's also not as salty as the sea water. So the level of salinity is higher than a a river, a fresh water river, but lower than sea water. So it's called brackish. And then bend them And then bend them. That's why we call them edeba. Rivers like that are always called deba.

[00:18:47]That's why you have edeba in the Eastern Cape.

[00:18:50]So if that river, Brak Brak Rivier, was to be called by an indigenous name, we would call that water deba.

[00:18:58]>> Listen, we're coming back on my family 2.6. Let's take a bit of a break. I'm giving you a Q&A right now coming from Pink Panther and Girl Like Me. Oh my goodness. I wish I had so much knowledge like this, man. Yes.

[00:19:09]Sanele Twani in the building, right now.

[00:19:17]>> And people, this is a MFM 92.6 Stellenbosch University. Please tune in.

[00:19:27]MFM 92.6 Stellenbosch University.

[00:19:30]I'M WITH UMLUNGU.

[00:19:32]>> UMLUNGU, SLAHLA UBA SKHONA.

[00:19:35]>> [laughter] >> I'M WITH I'm with the Umlungu.

[00:19:38]Yeah?

[00:19:39]>> Can you believe the other guy >> Really?

[00:19:41]>> 15 MINUTES LEFT.

[00:19:42]>> AH.

[00:19:43]>> [laughter] >> IT'S LIKE I HAVEN'T STARTED.

[00:19:45]>> You calling 17 minutes past.

[00:19:47]>> Yes, yes.

[00:19:48]>> You are talking to me like that. That's it.

[00:19:49]>> OH, REALLY? YEAH, TRUE. YEAH, TRUE. I should have started at quarter past.

[00:19:54]>> Jay!

[00:19:55]Ah, 2 hours is not enough.

[00:19:57]>> We need 3 hours, baba, even 4.

[00:20:00]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, I know.

[00:20:03]Yeah, I know. No problem.

[00:20:05]>> I I had a feeling the hour is not enough. But I like >> We need to do a special to our broadcast.

[00:20:15]>> It's going to be for a podcast as well, Yanga, for real.

[00:20:19]Look.

[00:20:22]>> Come on, Umlungu.

[00:20:26]Yeah.

[00:20:30]Yeah.

[00:20:32]>> But I don't remember what I did to my spoon there. Did I I But I don't remember what I did.

[00:20:40]But I just closed my eyes.

[00:20:41]>> Yeah.

[00:20:43]Uh you know there's a place in Gordon's Bay.

[00:20:45]>> Yeah.

[00:20:46]>> They they wrote there, "Trespassers will be prosecuted."

[00:20:49]>> Mhm.

[00:20:50]>> And then someone went and saw the word "trespassers".

[00:20:53]Like, I remember this word from the Bible, from the Xhosa Bible.

[00:20:56]"Forgive us our trespasses."

[00:21:00]>> [laughter] >> They went and translated the board "Trespassers will be prosecuted." They went and wrote "Usitholele izono zethu."

[00:21:09]>> [laughter] >> Don't worry, that is my calling.

[00:21:12]So, >> [laughter] >> Wait.

[00:21:16]>> That's how Stellenbosch University, UCT, City of Cape Town, Jor- hey, Jordan Hill-Lewis, you must send me an inbox.

[00:21:28]You need my help. These translations are wrong.

[00:21:31]These translations are wrong and these are public signs. SU UCT, UWC, all of you.

[00:21:37]>> Also, the problem that some boards there's no translation in Xhosa.

[00:21:41]>> Yes, especially road signs. True.

[00:21:45]There's three official languages in the Western Cape. It's Xhosa, Afrikaans, and English and we need to see all of them and they need to make sense. You can't put gibberish and say this is Xhosa, it's gibberish.

[00:21:57]So, give me a chance to help you.

[00:21:59]Obviously, you have to pay for my services. Very high quality services.

[00:22:03]Uh Jordan Hill-Lewis, >> [laughter] >> All right.

[00:22:10]Yes, sir.

[00:22:13]Yeah, man. I get into Stars and Calendar and Times, yes.

[00:22:18]MFM radio station, guys.

[00:22:20]MFM radio station, it's the Stellenbosch in-house radio, 92.6. Please tune in every week on Wednesday.

[00:22:28]mfm.co.za, you can listen online every week at 1:15.

[00:22:34]Let's do it my brother.

[00:22:35]>> Every Wednesday we have Mfundo Jamba here, every Wednesday, 1:15, dada.

[00:22:42]We're here to fix what has been done wrong.

[00:22:45]>> That's right.

[00:22:50]No, they must they they must they must give me um platform. I will fix them.

[00:22:54]>> They need you.

[00:22:54]>> I don't have a problem.

[00:22:56]>> And if you are you would fix a lot of things.

[00:22:57]>> I would fix If if they are you know, years ago, Stellenbosch once uh the accounting department once came to our school.

[00:23:07]And then they were offering, you know, to put us into the accounting program.

[00:23:13]Those days they were still teaching in Afrikaans.

[00:23:16]They were only uh rolling out the English medium thing.

[00:23:21]So, they were telling us that there's translation services.

[00:23:23]You have to put the headphones in class.

[00:23:25]I'm like, nah, man.

[00:23:27]That's not going to work, bro.

[00:23:31]Yeah, it's not going to make sense if you're going to If you want to progress language, you need to put it into practice. You don't practice language in in public speeches. You put it into practice by translating boards, you know, public boards. People must feel included in their spaces, especially when they pay to be in those spaces.

[00:23:50]And especially now Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:10]Agreed. Agreed. Hey, guys.

[00:24:12][clears throat] They don't want to pay, my brother.

[00:24:19]They don't want to pay.

[00:24:21]Hello, guys.

[00:24:25]Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, actually I'm using my data. It's fine.

[00:24:29]Guys, I'm at Stellenbosch University.

[00:24:31]Spreading the the the the good news of indigenous wisdom.

[00:24:36]You must always not be ashamed of your indigenous wisdom.

[00:24:42]The intelligence of this land. Don't be ashamed, waba.

[00:24:46]By the way, my name is Luke.

[00:24:48]No, you are not Luke.

[00:24:50]Lukanyo.

[00:24:53]They don't even know the origin of the name Kanye. That is actually a Khoikhoi name.

[00:24:58]It's Khoikhoi, Kanye.

[00:25:09]Yeah.

[00:25:23]He's black.

[00:25:23]>> No.

[00:25:28]before >> We have We have umthetho. Umthetho.

[00:25:35]Yes.

[00:25:36]In fact, umthetho in and of itself, you know umthetho is not law.

[00:25:40]Law is Roman-Dutch codes. It's codified statutes from Europe.

[00:25:51]So, for the fact that you have a name for it, should tell you already you own it. You have claim over it. Let's continue, my brother.

[00:25:59]Mix live.

[00:26:02]It's a song coming from Solomon John saying get out of my head. Green Day saying "Good riddance."

[00:26:08]Snow Patrol is not camera shy. Hola live on air on 92.6 on your Lift Club. We said we're giving you a full hour and he's making sure that we are learning by all means. But now we're changing the topic from rivers to stars. Set us chilling as I'm cooling.

[00:26:28]You know when our people say But do you know the true origin of that?

[00:26:38]Mhm, you teach me. Why would anyone cook a stone first and foremost?

[00:26:43]Oh, to forge something. Exactly. So, when you dig underground, you do what? You're mining. as you all know. you've mined >> [clears throat] >> to purify now and separate the impurities from the ore, you have to put it in the fire.

[00:26:59]Which we call is it a lala.

[00:27:01]>> Yes.

[00:27:02]>> You're cooking that blood is stone.

[00:27:04]The stone will melt.

[00:27:06]And the the the the precious metal will be separated. It will be molten.

[00:27:11]It's metallurgy.

[00:27:13]>> Wow.

[00:27:14]>> It's metallurgy.

[00:27:19]It's not only reference to their character, but to the very real process of purifying gold and silver and bronze from the iron ore, which is the legend.

[00:27:28]>> Wow.

[00:27:29]>> Yes.

[00:27:29]>> We're talking about miners.

[00:27:30]>> Exactly. Miners and metallurgists and smiths. Because after you purify that, you have to forge it into a shape. You have to beat it up and form a weapon.

[00:27:42]Beat it up and form a tool. Beat it up and form a jewelry. So, it's not only miners, but it's also metallurgists. Not only metallurgists, but also smiths. But not only smiths, but also traders.

[00:27:50]Because you have to trade those same things you're making.

[00:27:54]>> What?

[00:27:54]>> So, there's there's much depth hidden in these clan names that we talk about.

[00:27:59]>> We'll get into that one day.

[00:28:00]>> Yeah. I want to talk about time and its relevance and it's uh to stars and the moon and the sun.

[00:28:13]Firstly, for us a month is not from the 1st to the 30th.

[00:28:19]And I know some people will have a difficult time to understand, but a month, which we call inyanga or hoedi, has nothing to do with the 1st or 2nd or 3rd or 4th or the 30th. It has got everything with to do with the physical moon.

[00:28:35]The moon goes through cycles.

[00:28:37]It starts off as a new moon.

[00:28:41]And it starts waning, waxing and waxing and waxing. And it becomes a full moon.

[00:28:46]And then it starts waning and waning and waning and it dies again and then it forms again which is a new month now which is called a new moon. And that is exactly how we calculate our time.

[00:28:57]We calculate our time with the cycle of the moon and the cycle of the moon does not adhere to the rules of the Roman calendar.

[00:29:04]Does not adhere to the rules of the Gregorian calendar.

[00:29:08]For us, the moon will be ending next week on the 14th.

[00:29:12]A new month will begin.

[00:29:14]The month of iKalenda in isiXhosa. We are currently in the month of isiLimela still.

[00:29:20]But if you follow the Gregorian calendar, you'll be confused. You will think we are in the month of iKalenda because it's July. iKalenda is not July.

[00:29:28]iKalenda is the new moon that happens in the middle of July.

[00:29:33]So you cannot have I used to believe that my birthday was in July.

[00:29:38]I thought it was in the month of iKalenda until I realized no, my birthday is on the 1st of July in the Gregorian calendar. But in THE INDIGENOUS CALENDAR, MY BIRTHDAY IS IN THE MONTH of isiLimela.

[00:29:49]The month of the seven sisters, the Pleiades, the holy stars OF OUR PEOPLE.

[00:29:55]ALL our people respect the seven sisters because it is a sign of a new year.

[00:30:01]So I was born in the month of isiLimela in the beginning of the year.

[00:30:07]I always thought I was born in the 1st of July. That means iKalenda. No, July is not iNyanga yeKalenda.

[00:30:14]July is It does not have an equivalent in the Gregorian calendar. That's one thing we must understand. Our indigenous lunar months do not have equivalents in the Gregorian calendar.

[00:30:25]So the Gregorian calendar, you use it for taxation purposes.

[00:30:30]Taxation purposes. It's for you to understand when the tax year begins and when the tax year ends, when tax assessments happen, where you must submit your tax returns, uh blah blah blah blah blah. That is what the Gregorian calendar is for. The name calendar literally is related to the a word for tax collection. That's why the financial year always begins at the end of February and beginning of March.

[00:30:55]>> Yes.

[00:30:55]>> Always.

[00:30:57]Because it's the financial year. So, we've we've abandoned the indigenous year, the real year, Seli mo Umnyaka. Abandoned isilimela.

[00:31:08]That's why bekuwumuzi isilimela isingaphi. So, isilimela is a year. We abandoned that for the Gregorian year of 1st January. There's no New Year in 1st January.

[00:31:17]>> Shouldn't we then bring that back? Cuz that that's our way of also knowing the time.

[00:31:21]>> I've already brought it back. Nah.

[00:31:23]>> Yes.

[00:31:23]>> I don't use Gregorian calendar only for taxation purposes within this European-based economic system. Yeah.

[00:31:32]That's it. Just for this economic system that we are still part of. But in my indigenous spirit and mind and psyche, I use the indigenous way of life.

[00:31:42]And the more people join in on that, the more then we can restore the proper original system of the land, which goes with the toroidal feed, the electromagnetic field of our space in Earth. So, the the months then goes with the moon. That is the relevance of the moon. So, you observe the phases of the moon. What are the phases of the moon, you ask? Zizikamba zenyanga.

[00:32:06]What is the first phase of the moon? The first phase of the moon is inyanga ethwasileyo.

[00:32:13]And then in Sesotho and Setswana, there's equivalents of the same saying.

[00:32:18]Kgwedi ethwasitse. Inyanga ethwasileyo.

[00:32:22]Kgwedi ya Sesotho is inkwesi yesixhosa.

[00:32:27]That is the moon. In isixhosa, the moon is called inkwesi, which is kgwedi or ngwedi. Same thing. It's all the same.

[00:32:35]When it appears for the first time, we say because twa means to start.

[00:32:43]The moon is begun. It appears as a very small moon. And then it starts to grow from the right hand side, bottom right.

[00:32:50]That's how you know it's growing. What do you call that? You say in English it's waxing.

[00:32:56]Because the light is on the right side.

[00:32:59]On the right hand side means the moon is waxing. It's going to grow bigger.

[00:33:03]So, in Yanga twa silly and then as it grows we call it it say tana. I know there are some people with the surname tana.

[00:33:11]It's what? The waxing crescent.

[00:33:15]The waxing crescent. And as the moon starts to grow now, the the bright side of the moon becomes bigger than the dark side of the moon. Now it's no longer it say tana. In is it called it's called it say aba.

[00:33:30]No, no, no.

[00:33:31]>> Now if you >> Yes.

[00:33:32]>> If you look at as in the jamatana.

[00:33:34]>> Yeah.

[00:33:34]>> We cut them like >> Aha, crescent moons.

[00:33:38]We cut them the the the pumpkin in crescent moon shapes and we eat those crescent moon shapes and call them amateba. That is absolutely correct. It say aba is the crescent. Now, after the crescent the moon will be half.

[00:33:53]What do you call that? It say aba logo tana. The first quarter.

[00:33:57]That's what you call the the proper first half where the right hand side is is bright and the left hand side is dark. You call that it say aba logo tana. The first quarter. After that more than like half of the moon is bright. Only small blood part is is how do you do this? Only a small part is is dark. That is called the waxing gibbous.

[00:34:20]It's called the waxing gibbous. Now you could call that it say gave.

[00:34:24]Because the light is big. Then once the light is full now, that is the full moon.

[00:34:29]We call that in Yanga is the layo.

[00:34:32]That is the moon of the hunter.

[00:34:35]That is the half of the indigenous month. So, you go out, you hunt, you go you start a new business on the full moon. Then, after that, the light is on the left side after the full moon. Now, we call it the waning moon. What's happening is that the light is dying and what's growing is the dark side.

[00:34:51]Now, the light is still more, but the dark is little where? On the dark side.

[00:35:00]or is it half? What does that mean? Ukusela, remember, is to be >> [laughter] >> You know what is this? What is when you're passing someone on the road?

[00:35:12]Yes, ukusela.

[00:35:14]The sun overtakes you. When you are sleeping in bed and you wake up, the sun is already there. What do you call that?

[00:35:21]Ukusela. So, the moon, sometimes you as you see it during the the morning. You can see the moon outside, but it's daylight. Inyanga is isele. We call it the waning gibbous. Is it half? After that, it's half, but now the light is where? On the left.

[00:35:35]>> Yes.

[00:35:35]>> It's called it abalokuqibela. And then, you have the waxing waning crescent. It it abalokuqina. And then, you will have now inyanga ifile, which is the end of the moon. And that's the month for us. It's not first, second, or third. We measure it in terms of the phases.

[00:35:53]Amagqu.

[00:35:54]>> Fair the jumpers. The hour felt like 5 minutes.

[00:35:57]>> Thank you, sir.

[00:35:58]>> Felt like 5 minutes. We need more. We need more. You need to come back again.

[00:36:02]You need to come back again.

[00:36:03]>> I'll be back.

[00:36:05]>> But before I let you go, we need to know where can we find you, find your work as well.

[00:36:11]>> You can find my work on www.undo.org.

[00:36:19]www.undo.org.

[00:36:24]That's where you can find my work. If you want to any of my programs, any of my courses, buy any of the books that I have in my repository, learn more about the work we do, there's a new feature that's coming where we put it in the repository for clan names and the history of clans. Go there. undlunkulu.org Go to my YouTube, Sandile Tukani, my TikTok, sandile_wamazulu, Facebook, Sandile Tukani, or Xhosa Culture. All of those platforms contain my work.

[00:37:04]My goodness.

[00:37:12]Did Did Done.

[00:37:19]Did you learn?

[00:37:20]I hope you did, man. We're opening minds here.

[00:37:25]Thank you, guys. [applause] Thank you, guys.

[00:37:34]Hey, thank you very much, thank you very much, everyone.