The discussion offers a sharp analysis of how removing supernatural rules in horror films forces the audience to confront a more complex and uncomfortable moral reality. It effectively argues that without clear lore, the boundary between a character's survival instincts and actual criminality becomes disturbingly thin.
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Obsession with Jeff Scheen (Fixed Audio)- Your Favorite Movie Sucks- Episode 55追加:
Round on is fat and he's a Jew. He'll tell you something that you already knew. Your favorite movie sucks. Your favorite movie sucks. American Beauty of Forest Gump. Your favorite movie sucks.
We are back for another episode of Your Favorite Movie Sucks. We have Jeff Sheen in the house.
>> Well, thanks for having me.
>> Of course. We haven't had you since the alien. Uh >> oh. Prometheus.
>> Prometheus. Yeah, >> that one got some traction. There was people in there defending my take.
>> Of course. It was It was a great episode. The people have demanded you back.
>> Yeah, there's a lot of Prometheus fans out there.
>> A lot of weird Prometheus fans. Lot of Prometheus.
>> Lot of weird specific Prometheus fans.
>> I want to see more.
>> But but we're here today. We supposed to saw Obsession last week. So, we got to talk. Everyone's talking about it. It's the big movie. As as in anything, we all pretend. I I enjoyed it quite a bit, but we all like to pretend like this thing is unprecedented. We're like a lowbudget horror movie to make money. Oh my god.
Everyone has to like ignore like the fact that this happens every couple of years just to like just to get excited about something. People are literally like, "Oh my god, it was only made for 750,000.
It's made 16 million." It's like Blair Witch was made for a nickel and it made like a billion dollars. It's like we've been here before, you know?
>> Yeah. But Blair Witch is different.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Blair Witch was like a found footage, you know, weird culty thing.
>> This is a wellade movie.
>> Yeah. This is actually a well done movie with good acting. Blair Witch there. Who was There's no actors in Blair Witch.
>> Stop coming out of her nose and camera.
That was great acting.
>> Yeah, she she should have been nominated.
>> Yeah, she should have got a nom for that.
>> I thought it was real as a kid. Did you?
>> No, I wasn't that. I mean, I mean, we weren't we weren't young enough for it to be intellectually acceptable to think.
>> Well, I thought it was real. Who were you?
>> We were probably I was like what what were they like 13 when it came out?
>> So you just saw this real film just got into a theatrical release.
>> WELL, EVERYONE WAS SAYING the >> FBI everyone was saying like this is real. This is actually found footage.
>> Remember that >> it just goes on. It just goes to the movie theater.
>> Yeah. I don't know. It's just, you know, it kind of fell through.
>> Oh, we found footage of Nancy Guthrie being murdered. Well, I guess we got to give it a theatrical release.
>> You know what? We were also watching like Al Qaeda beheading videos.
those and those were real.
>> You were a little younger than me, but yeah, I I guess I understood that it was Well, first of all, I don't believe in witches anyway, so like >> sure. Well, >> even real footage, I mean, like I don't believe in witches.
>> Well, as a young teen, you know, you don't know the world completely and everyone's just telling us it's real.
>> Well, which is I actually think it's really offensive when they like people believe it because witch is that belief is what allowed those people to be killed and sell it. You know what I mean? It's like anti-semitism which ant you know witch hysteria.
>> Yeah, I guess. But it's also empowering.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, >> women women are witchy, right?
>> But she's got the broom. That's like in the kitchen. It's like she's still thinking about helping out in the kitchen.
>> That's true. That's a good thing. When women are like, I'm a witchy woman. Get that broom.
>> The broom. Sweep that floor, you [ __ ] >> You witch.
>> You witch.
>> Um, are you scared of witches?
>> No, I'm not scared. They're not real.
>> Scary monster movie type movie like type scary thing.
>> Scary type thing.
>> I guess obsession is a new one which is what's so cool. The hot a hot girl being really into you.
>> Terrifying. That would scare me.
>> Are you That's why women don't approach men. We're scared.
>> Are you more scared of that or Freddy Krueger? Which one? A hot girl?
>> Um I guess like a I Yeah, a Freddy Krueger.
>> Yeah. I've never had a chance for a hot girl to be into me because if any hot girl ever messages me. I assume it's a bot and scam >> and I block them. Who knows? I could have blocked some real hot girls who want to [ __ ] me. Maybe not, but it's possible.
>> Well, also when a hot girl is very into you, your first thought is she's got to be bonkers.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
>> What? Why?
>> Every I [ __ ] some hot girls in my time, they've all been like should have been committed. Yeah. We're committed probably. For a hot girl to be into me, they have to not be fully grounded in reality, >> right? They got to have some definite issues.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
>> To be into this.
>> Also, Jeff just got a divorce.
>> I did not get a divorce.
>> A separation.
>> We're separating. So, it will probably lead to a divorce.
>> If he starts breaking down crying in the middle of this, just know it's uh you know, it's it's all uh you know, part of this emotional whirlwind. But um >> you just wanted to get that in. so bad.
I told you in confidence upstairs you're like, "Can we talk over the pod?"
>> Well, we got to break. Well, you got >> I knew you wanted to.
>> I don't want you to get I don't want you just to get distract All right. If you get like too misogynistic during this episode cuz of the breakup.
>> I haven't dealt with a [ __ ] [ __ ] that Nikki, you know what I mean? Like, you know, whatever. I I just want the audience to understand if there's any anger or sexism. It come from the fact that uh >> Yeah. My marriage is ending.
>> Marriage is ending.
>> Yeah. I'm watching these like you can't trust women, dude. These these women are all after you. They're going to ruin your life.
>> Yeah. Even when they're even even if they say they're uh part of a or a trick of a trinket or whatever the [ __ ] >> I'm in the I'm in the theater like this is what women do, man. They kill your best friend and then they kill you >> and they feed you your cat.
>> Oh [ __ ] Spoilers. Well, don't watch this unless you've seen the movie. So people are going >> Oh yeah, this is going to be riddled with spoilers.
>> Yeah, people are going crazy about the movie. Uh it's exciting. It's exciting to have a big horror movie people talk about. I mean, it's very cool because I mean, it is the low budget. People love that. People love a low budget.
>> Yeah. They love a low budget.
>> People love a a fresh new director.
>> Yeah. And you're right. Low budget without found footage. Found footage can suck my dick. Every time I watch a found footage, I'm like, I DON'T CARE. HOW WHY AM I SUPPOSED TO CARE ABOUT YOUR life if you're more concerned about filming capturing the thing on film than your own life? I saw one where the guy's like, "Oh my god, what's what's down that hallway?" And then he's filming it.
IT'S LIKE RUN IF YOU [ __ ] CARE.
>> YEAH. YEAH. You should put your phone down and survive.
>> The camera is like perfectly ey line with a monster. Then you're not that scared. I don't give a [ __ ] >> Yeah. You got to survive.
>> Found footage. Every real found footage movie, the camera should just be like on the ground the whole time. We don't see it. You know, >> or like when they Yeah. In Blair Witch when they're walking in and she's just standing in the corner. Remember that?
>> He's standing. Yeah. Were they coming in like this?
>> Where are they? Like why would you?
>> That being said, that being said, anytime you watch any like if there's like a school shooting or uh or even like October 7th, >> there are all these women just like tick- tocking during it like with their camera to their face being like I'm hiding here. So there is like Were there those?
>> Yeah, I mean there there is a truth to the I didn't watch any October >> filming but filming uh didn't happen.
>> Yeah. Filming themsel October 7th is not a real date. Uh uh filming Yeah. I I just think like if there's like a shooting, someone's going to film themselves, you know?
>> Yeah, there's usually one.
>> But that's why I think a good final footage movie would be one that's kind of satirical that shows someone during like a shooting or zombie thing, but they're like some Tik Tok influencer, so they're making sure it's all good for the camera.
>> It'd be fun to have like a somebody filming the person filming.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know, they're like, "There he is."
And they're just like they just see somebody keep doing this around corners.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But found footage does suck cuz you know you want to go to a movie, you want to see shots, you want to see, you know, >> you want to see good cinematography. You >> want to see good cinematography, good lighting, good directing, and this movie has it all. This movie extremely wellm made, great sound design, >> the sound is really good. I >> I jumped out of my seat like more than once, you know.
>> The sound was very good.
>> Um, it it it it even if it wasn't a jump scare, it was just intense, you know.
>> Yeah, it was very intense. A lot of the like the jump things I saw coming, too.
I was like, I know she's going to pop up. She's coming. worked and it still worked cuz the I was so like the sound would kind of be so loud.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Very loud.
>> It's great sound design. I would call the movie uh Hereditary meets a Halloween Halloween Simpsons episode. I feel like that kind of captures it.
>> Yeah. You know, I the guy >> was influenced by Halloween.
>> Was influenced by Yeah. Hereditary.
>> Hereditary and I think a Monkeykey's Paw episode of Halloween. Oh, really? Yeah.
>> Uh but I will say this about the guy. I Or the movie. So I like the movie. I had some issues with it, which is fine.
That's the guy's 26, you know what I mean?
>> You hate that.
>> I mean, a movie has to be I of course I do, but a movie a movie has to be good for me to if it was made by a 26-year-old and I'm like 42 and I just came out with my first first short film, >> which you can watch on YouTube right now. Memory Room. You watched it?
>> I watched it. It's good.
>> Recommend Billy Porter. Give it a huge shout out online.
Uh, watch it now on YouTube, Memory Room. Great thriller. Uh, and leave a comment. But a movie, for a 26-year-old to make a movie and for me to like it, it has to be really good to break through the jealousy, >> right? Cuz you don't want to. You go in there be like, I don't suck. I bet >> you go in be like, "Yeah, you need to confirm your reality that everything's rigged against you, >> right? Like, what's this Tik Tocker going to be showing me?" So, it was definitely good enough for me not uh not to be able to like I couldn't >> I couldn't My jealousy glasses were not uh could not keep in the sun. My jealousy sunglasses could not Let me Let me do this metaphor. My jealousy sunglasses could were not um strong enough to keep out the the sun of his brilliance.
>> Oh, there you go. You got it. You landed that play. I tuned out even came back at the end.
>> I knew I was going somewhere. But anyway, so the movie is very good. I will say I have some issues with the movie we'll talk about.
>> You one, he's 26.
Biggest issue. I watched some of his sketches, too. I I found him on Instagram. Watched a lot of his sketches.
>> Did you like it?
>> He's very funny.
>> He's very funny.
>> He's really funny.
>> Yeah. I watched one where like he didn't like you think you don't have to do your taxes. Did you watch that one?
>> No. I saw the one about the tip. Like he tipped negative at a restaurant. Yeah, he is really funny.
>> He's very funny. He's he clearly is is a fan of Tim Robinson.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Tim Robbins.
>> Yeah, definitely. Definitely. He And uh Did you see The Chair, the short The Chair is a a horror film he made that the company that made this or gave him the money originally saw that and were like, "We're going to give you money to turn that into a feature." And he was like, "Actually, let's make this instead."
>> Oh, really?
>> Yeah. It's good. It's I It's not I didn't really fully get it. It was It's very like It's one of those horror movies where you're like, "All right, this is very weird.
>> Can't wait to see how they explain this." And then they just don't.
>> They just don't.
>> And you're kind of like, "I guess that's cool, but also isn't that a little lazy?"
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Well, I just think like when you watch a horror movie, you're like, "What the [ __ ] going on?" And then the and then the the payoff that there is some kind of >> explanation and then if you just don't I mean like it's just kind of like well then anyone can anyone do that? I don't know. I mean it it's a good it's well made but >> it was a little too abstract for me.
>> Well, we were talking about that when we after we saw the movie how you're like there's no like explanation. It just starts. You're just like have to believe.
>> Well, I like mean I I like it. Don't I think that so that's the thing about the movie. We'll talk about that first.
>> The movie throws out any any lore.
There's no lore. There's no lore. Son's loreless >> which I believe horror movies have kind of been heading that direction >> of no lore.
>> No lore to the point where when I saw Hereditary >> I remember thinking at the time now you watch now compared to [ __ ] now you're like I guess it's a pretty detailed story. But there's lore in there.
There's lore. But at the time I thought uh it was a little lazy allore, you know, cuz it's like it's like um there's a horrific [ __ ] that happens and then she goes back into a box and she finds like a book of it's like just like a book in a box, you know, and there's like a mad I just remember thinking compared to other things at the time, the lore was lazy. I since rewatched the movie, this was me sitting in theaters and I've decided that >> the movie is so focused on other [ __ ] that the lore is kind of like not the point. So it's okay for it, >> right? And there was it was minimal lore, right? There was like Pon, you know, that was the demon guy.
>> It was minimal compared to and I just remember thinking at the time it's a little it felt a little lazy when I first saw it.
>> Uh I recant that I love Hereditary, but it did feel a little lazy. And then as movies have continued, >> the lore has been getting lazier and lazier. So weapons, very lazy lore there.
>> Yeah, weapons didn't have any lore. It was just an aunt showed up and she was a witch.
>> Little there's like she is a witch.
Yeah, >> that's all you get.
>> That's all you get. But she's a witch.
It's very It's getting even lazier >> and finally we come to [ __ ] uh this movie and they chuck it all the way out.
>> Yeah. They're just like this. You snap his Make a Wish. It's true.
>> It's true.
>> It's just true.
>> They even [ __ ] with you. At one point she goes back to the He goes back to the store and it's like a different guy behind the counter. It's hilarious moment cuz >> Yeah. It's actually funny. The guy's like, "What do you mean?"
>> He's like, "Where are the things?" He's like, and you think, oh, is it a magical store that doesn't really exist? And then he's like, no, it's they're right over there.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. The guy was like, they're right over there. And I remember thinking this was this was a little strange. The store owner was just like, I mean, you can I guess you can kill yourself.
>> Hilarious.
>> Like, everyone knew that it worked.
Well, that's what's interesting about the premise is that it it says, I'm done with the lore. You know, you're watching a horror movie cuz what's the point of the lore? The point of the lore is to help you suspend your disbelief, right?
You're like, you got a black guy in there saying some voodoo [ __ ] and you're like, "Well, I got to trust a black guy." Right? There you go.
>> Which movie you talk about here?
>> Like every how how many horror movies at one point a black guy explains some spiritual [ __ ] >> I'm trying to think. Oh, Candyman.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's always Well, Candyman, he is a bad guy.
>> Yeah, he is the bad guy. I'm a I'm a pin head man. You know that.
>> You like the creepy crawly AND SLITHERY [ __ ] YOU KNOW, I'm a pin head, man.
>> You like the ones who just seem like perverts.
>> [ __ ] love pin heads.
>> Yeah. You like the slimy [ __ ] >> Yeah, right. He's like getting his getting his neck ripped open. Oh, yeah.
He's having an orgasm.
>> The pin head is scary as a kid. What is scary about a pins? There's something scary about a pins in a head.
>> It's cuz he's weird and he's just like the thing that's scary about Pinhead is that uh he thinks pain's pleasure. So, he's like cutting you up and he thinks he's like giving you a nice time. He's like, "Yeah, you like that."
>> Kind of knowing what he does. The face is scary. Something about like >> face is scary.
>> An albino guy getting acupuncture is like a terrifying combination.
>> Yeah, you don't want to mess with an albino guy.
>> He's got his chi all on. Well, I guess the pins are scary cuz it's like it clearly doesn't hurt him. Yeah. I guess it's like what you're saying. It's >> all like he's turned on by pain.
>> If I put an axe in my head, it would be scary right now, >> right? And you were just hanging out and be like, "You want this one? Me put an axe in your head?"
>> Yeah. He's not said if he's not >> if he doesn't care about the pins in his head, he's not going to care about the pins he puts in your head, >> right? Yeah. He's trying to He's trying to, you know, give you some.
>> Is he Hellraiser? Did he raise hell or is that Hellraiser?
>> He's Hellraiser.
>> Well, he's like >> No, it's the other guy. Cuz in the first movie, Pinhead turns out to be his mom or something. Or uh No, I'm joking.
>> No, Pinad is u uh he's this girl's stepdad. Is her stepdad.
>> The [ __ ] are you talking about? What >> the first pin head?
>> The first pin head. it. I think it shows up at the very end. It's like this woman.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're right. I'm thinking the guy that summons him is this girl's I think dad or stepdad, >> right? He's like [ __ ] a woman. I remember watching it being very freaked out.
>> Right. Screwing a woman. Then >> someone gets skinned or something.
>> He gets killed or something and the woman's obsessed with him and she brings him back, I believe.
>> But Pad's like a cameo at the end or something.
>> Yeah, Pet shows at the very end. You barely see anything.
>> Big I think like he he comes in later.
Yeah, >> he's at the very end. Pad 2. That's when you get them.
>> I saw that.
>> That's the good one.
>> Yeah, that's the one where they like go through hell, >> right? They have to go to the maze and the main thing is terrified me.
>> Leviathan. That's the big That's the big thing.
>> That second pin head really scared me cuz you're in the I guess it's what the young kids are calling a liinal space now or something.
>> It's like a space that never ends.
They're in like this hell like maze.
>> Young kids are calling this thing.
>> The back rooms. Have you heard of that?
No.
>> It's like another movie about another 12-year-old that's coming out soon. Oh god. Oh no.
>> But uh yeah, but anyway, obsession.
>> Yeah, we should get back to Obsession.
>> We got to get back to Obsession. No lore. They chuck out the lore.
>> No lore.
>> And there's a part of me that really likes that cuz a we're always sick of the lore in movies.
It's like always a whole uh the whole like, you know, oh, this is what I said earlier that we got on this tangent like the black guy saying something, you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of lore. Well, and also I think we're kind of getting tired of it because of all the superhero movies.
>> Oh, interesting. Explain yourself there.
>> Well, because of all these superhero movies like Superman, the new Superman comes out and then they always have to be like, "Oh, he came from Krypton."
Like, how many times are you going to do that?
>> Right. And everyone's like, "We [ __ ] know the lore."
>> I remember the Robert Patterson Batman came out and they tried to show the parents getting killed again. I'm like, "We don't need to see it."
>> Yeah. Like, we've known all this. We know that.
>> We're done with the lore.
>> We're done with the lore. We're sick of the lore. and with some monkeykey's paw [ __ ] It's like, what are you going to do? You're going to get an old black man in there to explain something. You're going to get, you know, it's just pointless.
>> Mhm.
>> And there's something very Gen Z like ironic like, "Fuck it. We don't need it." You know what I mean?
>> Gen Z gets right into it.
>> There's social media.
>> Social media. They're expecting you to they're going to lose you in three minutes.
>> Yeah. Yeah. They're like, "We got We can't do lore. We got to hook them in the first 15 seconds."
>> So, there's no lore. And what I what I thought was really smart about the movie is that a lot of the humor in the movies in the periphery, it's actually more in the fact that there's no lore. It kind of makes fun of that >> in these brilliant ways. Like when they call the phone number, it's just some dude on the other line.
>> Yeah. Just a guy answers the phone.
>> So they make fun of the premise in a way. So but but then the actual scenario is very serious, >> which is good.
>> Yeah. It's all about the scenario.
There's no tongue-in-cheek detachment to the scenario, which I think sometimes tongue-in-cheek can hurt a you know certain comedy comedy can really hurt horror movies, but this movie really compartmentalizes keeps the comedy and just making fun of the premise, >> but the actual scenario is very scary and [ __ ] up and that that's very effective, I thought.
>> Yeah. A woman being super obsessed with you, that's the scary thing. She's she's out of her mind obsessed. The fact that you made a silly wish and there's a number, they're like, "Ah, that's all funny. Yeah, who cares? She's super obsessed. This is the thing you got to watch.
>> Now, that's the part I liked about it that it that it checks out the lore, >> right? But I asked at the same time, sometimes you do something in a movie that is both refreshing and can kind of hurt it, you know? Like for in, have you ever seen Psycho?
>> Um, no.
>> I don't even know why I have you on this podcast, but I really got to get more film fans. This is insane.
>> IT'S BLACK AND WHITE.
WELL, PSYCHO, >> I DON'T DO BLACK and white.
>> Psycho, the main character gets killed like 20 30 minutes in.
>> Yeah. The >> Yeah. And that was the craziest thing anyone had ever seen cuz like >> the main character usually there's like a contract that they're not going to die. And then when you see that you're like, well, I guess anyone can die. You know what I mean?
>> Well, the main character dies really fast.
>> 30 minutes in around.
>> Then what's the rest of the movie?
>> Well, that's what's interesting. I THINK IT does hurt the rest of the movie cuz there's no there's like his her sister comes and then her her boyfriend and they both try to uncover who killed her.
>> Oh, really?
>> I just know about the >> Yeah. But there's a weird uh there's a weird like um even though the movie is still great. I think the first half of the movie up to that is like the greatest thing ever. There is this weird like the steam kind of goes out of the movie a little cuz there's no one to like latch on to, you know?
>> Right. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of need your your character. But so it's like groundbreaking but also kind of hurts it a little, you know, like there's it's like there's a there's a reason for that rule. And I think the same thing is true for this.
>> It's groundbreaking that they chuck out the lore, >> but it hurts it. And the reason it hurts it is not actually any kind of suspension of disbelief. I think the reason it hurts it is because this is a be careful what you wish for movie, >> right? And the part the the key to a be careful what you wish for a movie is that there has to be some kind of moral transgression. Like in Frankenstein he creates he defies God and creates this.
You've heard of Frankenstein, right?
>> Wait, what?
>> Franken?
>> He he defies God and creates this creature and then the creature is like alive and he runs away right from the responsibility. There's a moral transgression. And this he's not aware that the thing has magical powers.
>> So, it's just like a novelty trinket he buys at a store. He he tries to tell her he loves her. He's afraid to. She leaves and he says to the trinket, "I wish you could love me more than anyone."
>> But a lot of people, and this is where it's kind of crazy now, even though I like the movie, I think the response says is almost more interesting and says something a little [ __ ] up about society. Okay.
>> A lot of the Gen Z people think he's like a rapist >> and they I mean even right now I'm saying this is probably someone who's going to angrily comment >> because I tweeted that as a joke. I went >> just to be I just a obsessions about a guy who's who's in love with this girl who doesn't love him back. So he makes a wish on this thing that he doesn't think is real for her to love him back or as Jenz calls it a rapist.
>> And I got ratioed beyond ratio.
was so many comments, so few likes. It was it was brutal. Like, and people were like, "Fuck you. He's clearly a rapist."
But here's the thing.
>> He's not HE DOESN'T I GET IF YOU IF you do say a wish, I want her to like love me more than anyone. I guess you could say that's kind of like roofing someone on a magical level, right?
>> On a magical level. Sure. But he would have to know it works.
>> But I would say in that you Exactly. He would have to know it works. If I'm just like, I hope she loves me on this [ __ ] cracker, whatever.
>> Right. Yeah. You crack over the fortune.
>> I'm not a [ __ ] racist. That was racist.
That was a real Freudian slip.
>> Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. This Candyman talk got you riled up, huh?
But these black guys with their bees.
He's all riled up. Um, by the way, Candyman, Black Beetlejuice, Edward Scissor Hands, Gay Freddy Krueger.
>> Hey, right.
>> Yeah. Tremors. White Trash Jaws.
>> Yeah, >> I bet you're a Trevor's guy.
>> Yeah, I love Trevors.
>> That was like my favorite movie as a kid.
>> Worm in the >> I was a Kevin Bacon guy.
>> My bit about I have a whole bit about how it's just white trash Jaws.
>> I didn't know that.
>> Like the way they pitched it. They're like, "You know how Jaws make you afraid to go in the water? Well, this movie will make you afraid to go in the dirt cuz the dirt's scary, too." A lot of us, a lot of the poor folks can't afford TO GO ON THE WATER, BUT THIS MOVIE WILL make you afraid to go in the dirt.
Dirt's real scary.
>> It really is.
>> It's white trash jaws.
>> They get out of there on a bulldozer.
>> Yeah, the poster is white trash jaws.
It's literally this with a [ __ ] worm coming out of the [ __ ] >> I never thought of that. and bacon and a [ __ ] cowboy hat on top going weeha freaking love that movie. That's like my favorite movie.
>> I do like it too. But it is just such a >> do pin head. What's pinhead then?
>> H >> pin head.
>> Yeah. Too original, isn't it?
>> I guess so. There's not really a >> plays the greatest character.
>> You sound like our car there. Too original. You did our car voice.
>> Did I?
>> Did he take it from you?
>> Probably.
>> Yeah, probably. You did that.
>> Probably. Yeah, bro. I've been I've been getting bit off for decades.
>> So, you're talking about Yeah. So, you think they think he's a rapist.
>> You know what? You know what? I will I will defend that thought a little bit.
>> Defend it right here >> because I think, you know, he kind of >> he kind of does become a rapist after he figures out it's this the thing actually is real.
>> Okay. So, there's two arguments.
>> He doesn't end it right then and there.
And and and and that is more valid than the other argument because some people are arguing just the wish itself.
Someone tweeted >> I could I tweeted something else where I said like uh in his defense he didn't know it work and someone tweeted well yeah but the desire itself is creepy that if I have Jenz people listening you are falling into woke puritanism if you think that woke puritanism where people should be vilified for their thoughts right.
>> Yeah it's too much. He's just a dude who's in love with this the hottest girl ever, you know? That's my wife. The hottest girl ever who who she [ __ ] she like called him when his grandpa or grandma died. He's like in love and and then he's like I WISH SHE'D LOVE ME BACK. AND PEOPLE are like rapist. It's like you're just vilifying a guy for being a guy for the first argument. Now the second argument which I'll take I'll tackle that too.
>> Okay. Right.
>> He finds out it's real. He even he makes the call.
>> He's trapped at that point.
>> Yeah. Yeah, but he doesn't need a banger.
Well, if you're [ __ ] track, you might as well.
He might as well.
He Oh, it's real.
>> Does he bang her?
>> Well, I have He doesn't bang her.
>> He bangs her. Yeah, he bangs her after that.
>> She's like raping him and [ __ ] >> Oh, you want to bang HER IN THAT SITUATION?
>> HOW DO YOU FIND LIKE WAIT, so wait, is she brainwashed? Is that not even her?
Oh, she wants me to come to bed. So you're saying, okay, so this hot girl, you're like, I wish I wish she was in love with me. Suddenly she's really into you. Right.
>> Right. Which is that's you could be like it's if somebody gave me a magical little bell and if you ring this bell little thing and I did it and some girl's like, >> but at that point I would I would assume she's just into me, >> right? I would never say she has a brain tumor or something, right?
>> Or maybe you know there was a moment she's like if you like me say something, right? You like oh maybe something's happening.
>> So how's it rape if he kind of thinks that too? You're saying once he knows >> once he figures out >> once he calls the dude >> once he calls the dude and he snaps or once he calls the dude and the guy's like it's you can kill yourself or that's how it works >> [ __ ] after that call >> I believe he does >> I wish that I don't actually there's no way to actually prove but I think so >> of course oh well whatever >> you rewatch the whatever >> but I think cuz he calls >> like you're talking like movies can't ever be rewatched >> there's impossible to watch a movie but I think he calls and finds out relatively early and then they still stay. It still keeps going.
>> But what >> he doesn't get crazy and I think they still they still bang.
>> But what can't he do in that situation?
She like won't let him go.
>> Sure, but like I don't know. You have to be like like even remember when she's laying in bed and she's like, "Help me.
Help me. This is me." You know, remember that part?
>> And he's like, "Wait, what are you doing there?" Huh?
>> So, okay. So, >> and then he and then he find So, he's like finding out, "Oh, wait. She's trapped in like a demon body.
>> You can't bang her after that.
Well, I'm not saying you can beg HER AFTER THAT. I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT SAYING THAT. Don't say that. I'M SAYING THAT THINKS HE CAN BEG YOU.
>> I just don't know if he does beg her after that. I think he when he calls and the guy's like, "It's true. You can kill yourself. You want to talk to her?" And he's like, and then they stay. There's still some fun dating stuff happening after that. You know, they still go out to dinner and all the other stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I think he still bangs her after he believes like this might be a real thing.
>> You're in this situation, >> right?
She's like crazily coming on to you after that. You push her away.
>> Do I push her away after I found out it's real and stuff?
>> Yeah.
>> You don't get a [ __ ] At this point, you're kind of like, am I [ __ ] Do I get one in? Well, at this point, you're like, I'm [ __ ] doomed.
At this point, I trapped her in the body of a demon. I might as well get one in.
>> Am I a rapist and a racist?
WELL, I DON'T LIKE I think I think after that you you you try to, you know, get her out and then I don't think you you like he is trying to pretend that they're still together. They'll still be sleeping in bed together, >> but she's like he's still trying to make it work. He's like afraid of her.
>> I mean, he could probably take her, you know, she was she was what, 5'2? You know, >> so you're saying when he [ __ ] her >> This is This is a very men can't get raped argument.
But when he [ __ ] her, >> you're bigger than her. JUST PUSH HER OFF.
>> SHOUT OUT TO REENA COMM. When he [ __ ] her, when he [ __ ] her, like at the end, you're saying he's a rapist. Now, let me All right, let me When you watch that part in the movie, did you think rapist in that moment?
>> You know, I didn't You know what? I didn't think rapist >> until until the Gen Z people attack you in your head.
>> No, that's not I didn't think like full on, but I thought I remember being thinking like >> No, it's uncomfortable. A little strange that he's, you know, I feel like he should be trying to get her out of here more.
>> It's uncomfortable, >> you know, like he wasn't really trying to pull her out so much.
>> Yeah. It's a tough thing cuz it's like >> he was lying to himself. I think >> it's a tough thing cuz you have to go into the different level. There are degrees of rape. We agree with that.
It's just the truth.
>> Yeah.
>> Don't Don't throw me IN THE IT'S TRUE.
ALL RAPE is horrible.
>> Did you hear that? Everybody's got a degree in rape.
All rape is horrible, but there's different types. There's the number one type, the jump out of the bushes. Old school rape. The >> jump out of >> No one's like, no one's interpreting. No one's like, there's no like interpretation there. You know what I mean?
>> Sure. It's pretty cut and dry.
>> The guy who jumped out of the bushes can't be like, I think she was in I was getting signals, you know, when I jumped out the bushes with a knife.
Right.
>> She had a short skirt on and I was in the bushes.
>> That's number one. And then there's number two is like the drug thing.
>> Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And then there's coercive rape, right?
Where you're like the woman wants to go and you're like, "No, come on. Don't go, baby. It's cold outside."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Now, this isn't coercive rape cuz she's wants to [ __ ] him badly, >> right?
>> She's like jumping on him. She's the hottest girl ever jumping on him, which by the way, I don't think any guy I Maybe we're all rapist in that situation.
>> It's impossible. It's impossible to fight that woman. How do you fight the hottest girl ever jumping on you? She's like grabbing at your dick. She's like, "Let me [ __ ] you. I'm in pain." And you'll be like, "No, I'm not a rapist."
AND PUSH HER OFF.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT I mean? At that point, he is he's they've already done it several times. You know, there's a montage of them just dating. They're dating, you know, and then he finds he's starting to realize, wait, the wish thing is true. I think she's she asked for help in her sleep. She's standing in a corner being weird and then she jumps on you. You'd think you'd be like, I don't think this is you in there.
>> So that's at that point it's roofy. It's essentially like roofy.
>> She's roofied.
>> That's the type of rape it is. If we're like holding it up in court like if this actually went to court, >> if this went to court and they were like and she claims like she like let's say he doesn't die at the end and she's on she she's on and she's like he wish a thing it worked. Maybe at first you didn't know, but once he knew that was intent, >> that was intent. It's like when Trump once he knew that the election clearly was like not stolen and he still spread the lie. Once he knew he he that's rape.
>> Yeah. Now you Now you're in the wrong.
Once >> what did the guy say in that situation?
>> Was the guy Well, the guy >> So it's hard it's hard to prove intent, >> right?
>> Cuz couldn't he just say I was still kind of hoping she was into me for me.
what every guy hopes.
>> Yeah, at that point he could still he could still play dumb. I guess I still didn't I still thought it was her. I didn't I wasn't I maybe thought she was a demon now, but it wasn't 100%.
>> This is kind of a flaw with with the the chucking out the lore.
>> If you have the lore, he knows what he's getting into.
>> Without the lore, >> it takes away a little bit of moral accountability because even that phone call, even though it's funny with the guy where he's like, "Well, I don't know. I guess you got to kill her." He could just be like, I don't know what the [ __ ] that was. It was a weird phone call.
>> Sure.
>> So, it's like it taking away the lore in a way makes his moral accountability a little hazy cuz it's like why this shouldn't be working.
>> Okay.
>> It's like a haka's really I do believe if there's like some spiritual witch or whatever and she's like I can give you and she proves she's a witch who's like you know that dog is a cat now or whatever you know and I don't know what that is but like and then she's like I can make her you know I do believe that's rape. That's that's proofing. I believe that like you're you're taking her controlling her body >> like if you're telling the witch to please make this lady fall in love with me.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Oh yeah. It is it is >> that is that is kind of roofing on a roofy type.
>> It's a it's a roofy a witch roofy, you know, spiritual roofy >> cuz you could argue that girl was blackout.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> But but the problem with the movie that because it chucks out the lore, it makes it very confusing whether it's that's the reason, >> right? Cuz when you do a roofy, you know exactly what you're doing, >> right? You know what this is? You know what it does when he snaps the thing.
It's, you know, it's a fun little gag trinket.
>> Yeah. I should probably get a woman on here to talk about this.
>> Probably. You're going to look like a bad guy.
>> You're the closest thing I have to a woman in my podcast.
>> Yeah. Another woman will talk to you.
>> Two men talking about consent.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Renown kept trying to get women on his podcast. This is the guy that defends rape.
>> But I fine with second and third degree.
>> It's the lack of lore. It you got to admit that confuses it a little.
>> Mhm. Like >> cuz what if she actually had Well, here's a question. What if someone had a brain tumor and you know they have a brain tumor and they're like really into you cuz they don't have impulse control.
>> Okay.
>> Is that rape if you let them [ __ ] you?
>> Um, wait. If you let them but they have a brain tumor making them ass. Let's say you found out I had a brain tumor, right? Where it took away my impulse control. And then one day I'm like, I really want to suck your dick really badly, but you know it's a brain tumor, but you just got separated from your wife. You haven't had sex in a while.
Clearly, it's been a long time cuz the marriage fell apart. You know, you just shaved your face. I shaved my face.
Maybe you're like, maybe I I'll blow you. You can imagine it's your ex or something, >> right? Would that be rape?
>> I'm the one blowing you, >> right? But you could argue I'm taking advantage of a man with a somewhat of a disability >> cuz that's what I think it's closest to in a way.
>> That's kind of is. Yeah. It's kind of like uh what's his face? Uh John Federman's wife.
>> What happened with her?
>> Remember John Federman?
>> Someone is with John Federman.
>> Yeah, he's married. He's a married guy.
>> Ogre has a wife.
>> He's married. Married.
>> Is she How blind is she blind? What is the >> You know, she married him back when >> is it the Shrek woman?
>> He he was he was this is before his stroke that turned him conservative. He didn't look he didn't look pretty before the stroke either.
>> Sure. He didn't he was not a good-looking man. Not at all. I'm not saying he was. But I'm saying he was married and he was a very >> like should he wear shorts? I'm like she he shouldn't be outside shorts. Yeah.
>> But he was like a very liberal progressive, you know, and then he had a stroke and now he's weird conservative guy. So is his wife now being like, you know, is this is this him anymore?
>> You're saying the wife's a rapist?
>> I hear that anyone could be accused of raping John Federman.
>> HE HAD A STROKE. HE'S NOT LIKE HE WAS.
HE'S A DIFFERENT GUY. You know, she's banging this new guy. It's not him anymore.
>> He's a MAGA Republican. It's a completely different man that she's taking advantage of.
>> Yeah, it's a good point. Well, all right. Well, then let's say that to the Jenzers. And this is rape and obsession.
John Federman's wife's a rapist.
>> Yeah, we got to get his wife.
>> We have to protect John Federman >> because he's probably like being like, "Yeah, baby. I want to [ __ ] you." uh you know like like the way a man and woman should only only men and women should [ __ ] you know cuz it's like >> right >> you know it's wrong to be gay and she's probably being like yeah you're right she's saying thank telling him what he wants to hear >> sure she's like I I agree I agree >> women should get paid as much as men and that's and yeah I mean it's a good point so yeah I guess all right I will concede that >> if it was a little more clear it would have been rape but without I I'll say this and if you want to cancel me cancel me all right but I'll say this. If you, the hottest girl ever, >> Uhhuh.
>> is trying to [ __ ] you. You've already [ __ ] her a bunch of times.
>> Sure.
>> And it's confusing if the lore is real.
>> It's not rape.
>> Okay. If she was a little uglier, it would be >> Jeez, Louis, you're done. You're cooking for this episode.
>> It's the confusion of the lore that's the problem. You know, I that'll, you know, in court, I think that would hold up.
>> If an old black man went in and be like, "This trinket was back in the olden days and voodoo blue." Then in court, it wouldn't hold up. They were like, "An old black guy told him." So, it's >> Yeah, he had all the facts. He told him everything. He showed him some some stories, you know, and some things that have happened and he still went with it.
>> But it's it is >> him just getting a weird f It's I guess it is a little loose and he can argue that he was confused.
>> And the other thing we've talked about with this movie is that because he's good-looking >> Mhm. cuz he actually looks like the kind of guy who she would want to [ __ ] >> It feels less creepy. If it was me in that role, everyone would be like, "That's a rapist."
>> It was you. As soon as you snap that thing like rapist. He's raping.
>> I'm dating her now. SHE LOVES ME.
>> THIS is real love. It's not this trinket I found. Is >> that funny? It's rape if it's me, but if he's hot, it's like a confusion.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But not to the I guess the Gen Zers look past that cuz they're like, "That guy's a rapist."
>> Yeah. They're not as shallow as you are.
I guess so.
>> You know, to them they're like, I it doesn't matter what you look like, you know.
>> But but these most of these Gen C nuts are saying rape on the first one. Okay, that's crazy. They're saying rape just making the wish on a trinket.
>> That's that's crazy.
>> Yeah, that's too much.
>> Oh, [ __ ] I wish this girl liked me. [ __ ] Ted Bundy rapist. [ __ ] you. You know, >> I mean, yeah. Yeah. If you had like some magical thing like this battery was like, oh, if I spin it, my wife will love me again. It's also just vilifying a crush. That's And look, I you know, I've had some infatuations in my day.
>> Oh, you're a crush man. You always have crush. Yeah, back in the day. So, I relate to this guy >> back in the day.
>> But, uh but so I >> think he's got crushes.
>> But I relate to this guy in a way, right? But like I just think like it's vilifying a feeling that maybe is underdeveloped.
It's an infatuation. He doesn't fully know her. He's more in love with the idea of her. He's really in love with the fantasy. Sure.
>> But to call that like to use that to say the guy's a criminal, it's just vilifying a guy.
>> It is too much. And also they were very close.
>> Yeah. It's pathizing kind of a normal emotion.
>> Yeah. They were very very close friends and he had a strong crush on her and he wished that she would love him a lot >> cuz he was nice to her and it's like the worry I have with these Jenzers. I want to go back to the term war pur. You're on a generational war path.
>> I want to go back to the woke Puritanism, right?
>> If you're pathizing a normal feeling, you're no different than the Catholic Church saying jacking off is wrong.
Right? And these young people in a way by him being like, I wish you love me back. Even if he's like, I wish you love me more than anyone.
>> Yeah. It's not it's an underdeveloped feeling, but the idea that it's like rape is it's a really unhealthy road.
These young people are going down if they think that.
>> Yeah, it's a very strong word.
>> Well, to just a natural thing for a guy to have, which is a crush. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. People have crushes all the time.
>> There's a difference between him someone saying that's infatuation and not love and saying that's rape, that desire. You know what I mean? I can say obviously you could say it's not love. I mean, maybe it is love. I don't know.
>> I think I mean I think he loved her.
>> He did I mean she was they did have her connection. The other thing that's weird, and this is might be a flaw in the movie too a little, which I kind of don't understand, is that in if I was in that situation, which I wasn't at that age in time, I always thought maybe she's into me back. I had that hope and I was afraid to find out that hope wasn't real.
>> Why does he wish I I wish he loved me more than anything? Doesn't he wonder if that might be the case at that point?
>> What do you mean? Like wouldn't he wonder if she was like doesn't he at that point not know if she loves him back?
>> Oh, like he doesn't know if she also loves him.
>> Yeah. I mean, when you're have a crush on someone, isn't it kind of intertwined this hope that they have a crush back?
It's like this crazy hope, but it's there.
>> Yeah.
>> But when he says, "I wish she loved me more than anyone." It's like she knows he knows deep down she doesn't love him.
But that's not really developed in the movie that that idea. Like I think I think it would have been better if she just straight if he like said he loved her and she rejected him and then he made that wish.
>> Then you could be like, "Oh, that's a little weird." Yeah, it's a little creepy.
>> But I'm a little confused why he would make that wish if he doesn't fully know if she has feelings for him back. You see what I'm saying?
>> Yeah. Well, I think Yeah. I think he has strong feelings. He's in love with her.
Um >> he thinks she might like him back.
That's the whole point. It all begins with them being like practicing him telling her.
>> So he thinks there's a chance. And she does not refute that in that scene. If anything, she's like, "If you like me, you should tell me," which I would kind of take as like a she likes you.
>> That's Yeah, that's what I would I'm a rapist racist. So I know, yeah, you're a disgusting human being.
>> But yeah, when she does when she brings that up there, then I do think you're like, "Oh, wait, maybe."
>> Right? Cuz that's a little weird to be like, "You have to tell me if you like me." And she's like, "I like you." Well, I don't like you. It's like a little But so why does he's I guess I I question the character motivation. Maybe I think that's a little confusing too that cuz it it' be maybe he could just say I wish he would date me, you know?
>> Well, I I think I mean you're looking at it from the point that like he thinks the wish is real. It's going to happen.
He doesn't.
>> Right. Right.
>> Like she's like, "Do you like you have to tell me?" He's like, he panics. He freezes and she walks off and he just kind of sides go and it's more of just like a No, you're right.
>> I wish you love me more than anybody.
You're right. Cuz also cuz also he thinks both things. He thinks she might love him and he also thinks she definitely doesn't love him.
>> Right. And so I think that was just like oh I just I just wish and hope. Oh well.
And then she comes back and he's like what's going on?
>> No. It's like immediate which is also really funny. It's funny. It's such a YouTube like we only have a certain amount of time. Usually in movies they give it like a day.
>> No, we're we're in we're in we're in the real society now. Everything's immediate.
>> She snaps that. She's like at the car.
It's like crazy. Which I love, by the way. I loved it. I mean, he's his whole YouTube get it out quickly. Kind of works well with horror movies cuz we've been down this road so many times.
>> Yeah.
>> Speed it up.
>> Yeah. Horror movies kind of need to speed it up a little bit.
>> It's the most tropy of all genres. It's the most It's why I like horror movies in a way. It's cuz like every horror movie is influenced by like every other horror movie.
>> But like um like hereditary like every horror movie is not every but so many horror movies are in hereditary. You have Don't Look Now, you have Rosemary's Baby. You have The Wicker Man, which is also a big part of Midsomar.
>> Yeah, that's a big thing. Yeah, Mizar is pretty much Wicker Man on itself.
>> Yeah, exactly. Much better, of course, cuz Wicker Man [ __ ] sucks.
>> Yeah, I don't think I ever saw it.
>> Oh, it's so bad. People love it. I I mean, I love a lot of horror movies. I I cannot It's like a lot of >> saw the Nicholas one. Yeah, >> I think I saw the Nicholas Cage one a long time ago.
>> The the the original one I is bad. It's also like >> it's like barely a horror movie. It's not a horror movie.
>> Midsummer was kind of a barely a horror movie.
>> I thought Midsummer was terrifying.
>> Really?
>> I thought it was barely a horror movie.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. I didn't find it very horrory at all.
>> Really? The guy uh the the mentally handicapped deformed guy cutting off the face of the other guy and putting on his face and going up to the guy and knocking him out. Which, by the way, that was a Texas Chainsaw Massacre moment.
>> Oh, I don't really remember that part.
>> It was pretty gruesome. didn't scare me that much. I get I get scared of like supernatural stuff. I'm a supernatural guy.
>> I'm the opposite.
>> I need a supernatural.
>> Anytime I supernatural, I just say to myself, it's not real. And then >> sure, but like that's scarier to me than like a real life thing cuz I'd be like >> I don't get it. Uh that could happen. I don't get it.
>> Just like, oh, that's just a guy. What are you What are you afraid of? A a crazy guy? There's crazy guys all over the world.
>> That's what makes it scary. You're everything you're saying is >> if something something supernatural that's really that's so crazy it's scary.
>> Have you ever seen uh Speak No Evil the original?
>> No, I haven't.
>> Have you ever seen The Vanishing the original?
>> I don't think so.
>> Have you ever seen Martyrs the original?
>> Probably not.
>> They're all three All three movies were made to remakes. I think those three are the most disturbing movies of all time.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, I should watch some of these.
>> But they're all down. Well, also >> are they in black and white? I don't know. Black and white. in black and white.
>> I don't do black and white.
>> Also, Texas Chancell Massacre.
>> I've seen that.
>> That's scary.
>> That's scary.
>> I got some news for you. Not supernatural.
>> True. Not super. You're right. That is not supernatural, but it's very creep.
The face mask was pretty pretty creepy.
Face mask. Pretty creepy.
>> But honestly, it is scary, but it's I don't find it as scary as like a like a Krueger or pin head.
>> Really?
>> I find that scarier.
>> Krueger can be scary.
>> Krueger's the first Krueger very scary where he's walking down the alley with his really long arms.
>> Well, it's scary, too, cuz there's no unlike Candyman. Don't get me start on Candyman.
rled you up.
>> All you have to do as canyon man is just not say canyon man three times.
>> Krueger, there's no escape. You got to sleep.
>> Yeah, you got to sleep. You can't.
>> The only escape is you got to go to New York, the city that never sleeps.
>> Defense.
>> Shut up.
>> Um but and you know also this is a horror movie trope that I've noticed is the uh there's the ones like this one very quick. You get into it real fast.
Then there's the other ones are these like some of these A24s. Nothing nothing nothing nothing all of it at the end.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know me like uh like men. Did you see men?
>> I didn't see men.
>> Men's like that. It's like nothing nothing. Craziness all in the last 15 minutes.
>> That's a that's a genre of horror films that I mean that's Wicker Man.
>> Wicker Man there's like nothing. It's only horror because of the end.
>> Yeah.
>> The Audition which is great is kind of like that.
>> Oh yeah.
>> I actually think that can be very effective when it's only at the end sometimes. I kind of like that >> it can be it can be really effective.
Audition is probably Audition is probably the best example. Um uh but also speak Speak No Evil is only a horror movie in the last 15 minutes.
>> Oh, really?
>> Which is what makes it so scary. Yeah.
>> See, I I kind of like that. I kind of like the the another and then all of it there. This one was like immediate.
>> Yeah. It's it's no attention. It's just like >> Yeah. Yeah. people was.
>> But what I what I really also enjoyed about it, even though I do think some of the stuff with the his like I do think it's a little hazy, the issues of like I do think the lack of lore makes it a little does take away moral transgression. Even if even if it is rape at the end, all right, fine. Sure.
Even if it's rape at the end, even though he's [ __ ] her like 10 times at that point, but it's RAPE THE NO GUY THINKS it's rape the 11th time.
>> But whatever. Sure. Let's pretend. or no, let's say that's rape. It's definitely not rape in the beginning.
Okay.
>> And that hurts the movie. A it hurts the movie because >> um there's a uh a lack of moral transgression, which I do think is important in those movies. I >> agree.
>> I do think you're kind of being he's not being punished for what he wished for, >> right? There needs to be I mean, he got punished at the end, >> but he's getting punished right away.
And that's like the whole concept. Like even hereditary, which is kind of helpless, there's still this be careful what you wish for idea. He's trying to [ __ ] that girl and it makes him ignore his ugly sister.
>> Leave his sister alone.
>> God, that really hurt me, you know.
>> Well, that movie >> as a guy with like >> an ugly sister. You have an ugly sister?
>> No, my sister is not ugly at all, but she's very much she's very young. She's younger than I am. So, there's that big So, when >> did that movie affect you?
>> It did. I saw it cuz he's like, you know, older and he's got this little sister. She's at the party and he was like, "Oh, they making her take her." I was like, "Oh, I would never want to do that." And then that se Oh, I was like, "Oh my god."
>> I kind of fell. I was like, "What if I was in that situation?"
>> Well, it's the ultimate nightmare.
Killing like killing your sibling.
>> Good lord.
>> Um >> Oh, it gives me the willies still to this day.
>> Oh, it's a great movie.
>> Yeah, it still gives me the willies.
>> But do you like the second half as much?
>> Um Yeah, I like the second half.
>> Yeah. No, it's very It's very scary when he kills her. But I do think her being ugly is part of the suspense of the movie. Like her being ugly helps the mood.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and also kind of makes it after she's gone, you know, her showing up again, you're like an ugly ghost.
>> I actually think if she wasn't ugly, it would maybe be too much. Like it was just like a cute little girl who got her head ripped off. I think that might have been too much.
>> No, I go No, I go the other way.
>> Really?
>> No. If it's a cute little kid, you know, you're like, "Oh, no." But for some reason when it's like like >> you kind of want her to die cuz she's ugly.
>> You No. NO.
There's a like sense of I don't want to say pity, >> but like compassion for somebody who's not that attractive. You're right.
You're right. And you're like, "Oh, and that too. They had to that had to happen to him."
>> He also doesn't It's like he doesn't want her around him. And then he feels so guilty for >> Right. You feel bad. You're like, "Oh, that sweet kid. Oh, she's weird." Sure.
>> That's sweet.
>> Yeah. Well, you don't really get to know that.
>> All she does is go >> and then and then the bird head thing too. She does that weird thing.
>> Yeah. She's like a psychopath.
>> She's a weird She's a really weird crepo. But like I don't know those people you're just like oh they got you know you got to like you pity them and you want to kind of like >> I mean I'm joking and being vulgar but I do think >> because she's freakish there's a part of us in society when someone's freakish you just want to be away from them. I do think her dying adds to the feeling of guilt.
>> That's Yeah. Guilt. Yeah.
>> You're like get that creature away from me. Oh [ __ ] You know you feel guilty.
You're like oh no she didn't do anything. weird >> when you bully the the movies where they bully some ugly kid but then the ugly kid dies. You know what I mean? They accidentally kill it. It's like >> Yeah. You just say kill it.
>> I'm just saying the guilt of like the guilt of killing someone ugly is always, you know, >> it's worse cuz their ghost is going to be just as scary. Yeah.
>> Sure. Sure. You know, but also, you know, they had a rough time all the way leading up to that point and they have a bad ending, too. It's like, oh, this is you poor thing. Well, in the screenplay I've read a couple times, it says she's in special eds class, so she's also like mentally handicapped, which I didn't realize.
>> That's even worse.
>> Yeah. See, that's that that hurts whatever this whatever part of my my gut.
>> It's the guilt. It's wanting to push those people away from society, then feeling guilt. Guilt. I believe guilt is when an evolutionary urge comes up that you like recognize now as like bad, but it still comes up. So you have to feel guilty about this ev like the evolutionary urge of like if you're taking care of your grandpa and you're like why don't you just die already so old.
>> It's like that's an evolution that that's an evolutionary urge like when you're her a gazelle when a gazelle like >> get rid of the weak old ones put them on an ice flow push.
>> So you have that evolutionary urge and then you you feel bad that you still have that urge. It's like the old feeling meets the new feeling the more evolved feeling and that's what creates guilt. You know what I mean?
>> Okay. Yeah. But I don't think there's guilt of this movie obsession. I think that >> I was just I was just thinking the girl.
Do you ever really feel bad for her?
She's so hot.
>> You can't feel bad for like you've been hot your whole life.
>> I can't feel bad for a hot, >> you know? Yeah. You've been gorgeous your whole life.
>> I'm not sexist towards women. I'm sexist towards hot women. Is that okay?
>> Sound off in the comments. Let us know if that's okay.
>> Well, they're taken over standup. Every thought I try to get is by some hot girl.
>> Yeah. which I I try to explain that what that means. It's like me h hot girls not wanting to [ __ ] me is what made me a comedian. So that's my origin story.
>> And now they're now they're comedians.
>> Now they're comedians. It's kind of like if when Batman joins the Justice League, if the the the dude who killed his parents is also in the Justice League.
You're like, you're my origin story. Why the [ __ ] are you in the Justice League with me? You're the reason I became a comic and now they're doing the thing that they pushed me into. Yeah, there's a lot of hot girls doing standup, huh?
>> It's awful. It's awful cuz it's like, look, if you're an ugly girl, do you made for standup? That's why I feel like some of the funniest comedians I know are ugly girls. But if you're hot, >> and there are some hot funny comics.
There are. And I do think when a hot comic is funny, they are so funny. You have to be so funny to be like like I'm just I don't have to be that funny to be funny. You know what I mean? I look like I should be doing standup. Okay. If you're a hot girl who's actually funny, that's incredible. But I will I don't want to get all Adam Corolla here, but like hot girls already get so much attention.
>> Yeah. It's like, what do you need it for?
>> Comedy is a way for ugly people to get attention, right?
>> When a hawker does it, it's cultural appropriation.
>> Oh, okay.
>> I never understood why like black people got so mad when like Elvis stole like the music.
>> But now I get it. I do. I get it. I'm like, you >> you never understood why they got upset.
>> WHAT? I NEVER THOUGHT OF IT.
>> IN THE BACK. WELL, I DON'T get why it's still good music.
>> That's what I feel. But now I get it cuz I see hawk PEOPLE DO STAND UP. I GET it now cuz those black people say, "Oh, he took the music without experiencing the oppression that the music came out of." And when I see a hot GIRL DO STAND UP, I'M LIKE, "YOU'RE LIKE ELVIS. You don't know the oppression that led into becoming a comic.
>> Yeah, I agree.
>> It's cultural appropriation. I agree.
>> What are you up there for?
>> I agree.
>> PEOPLE ARE GONNA [ __ ] YOU ANYWAY. THE WHOLE POINT OF COMEDY IS I'M looking for a way for me to get [ __ ] and I can't go off my looks. So, I have to be funny.
Otherwise, I'd be wiped out of the gene POOL. I'D BE WIPED OUT. That's >> true. I have to be funny TO SURVIVE. BUT YOU have no evolutionary need to do comedy. You already get attention. You want more attention and it doesn't work the other way. I can't become a model now. I can't do hot people jobs. I can't become, you know, a photographer or whatever.
>> Yeah, sure.
>> Whatever thing that doesn't take a lot of talent that hot people do.
>> Do some tasteful news.
>> Yeah. I can't do, you know, what whatever the jobs that hot influencer, model.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh what do hot people do? Uh >> you watching Elvis, you know, black people, what are you bitching about?
But then a humb starts doing stand up.
NO, I GET IT.
>> WELL, I had to have the experience.
>> I had to have the experience.
>> Hot people are taking our jobs.
>> Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, >> YOU'RE A FUNNY LOOKING GUY. THAT'S FUNNY. YOU GOT YOU HAVE THE BIG HORSE TEETH.
I'M JUST SAYING IT'S A FUNNY THING on stage.
>> Sure.
>> But a hot person I'm not like It's like >> Well, I mean, look at the world we're in, you know?
>> Hot people get the views and the likes.
>> I mean, don't blame the hot people, honestly. blame the the plebs out there loving their [ __ ] just cuz they're hot on Instagram.
>> I am like WHY ARE ALL THESE HOT comics getting more attention than me as I follow all of them and like all their clips?
>> Cuz it's easier for them cuz everyone's just so enamored with looks cuz we're all shallow and sad >> and with views. I'll like I've gotten fights with my wife in the past. She's like, "Why did you like that picture of that hot girl like in a like skimpy outfit?"
>> I'm like I don't even remember liking it. You like like it without even realizing it. They're just like like it's like so these girls are getting all or guys or hot guys too. He can go [ __ ] himself.
>> He's a hot guy doing standup.
>> Very funny. But that's an exception.
>> Luckily autistic.
>> Luckily autistic but he uh but or or Matt Refe who's like Matt Refe is like >> he's he's too hot.
>> Matt Refe to me feels like um like a guy another ugly funny person was on stage and a broy guy heckled him and the comedian was like, "Oh, you think you can do this? Here, you try it. And he went on stage and just became famous immediately. Like he just seems like the douchy guy heckling the comic.
>> Yeah. And he also looks like I mean he was didn't he get like jaw surgery and stuff?
>> Yeah. And his wife has like the same >> He looks like he was just built in a lab.
>> Yeah. He sucks, >> you know.
>> Yeah. It's not funny. What do you look at? Like what's funny about that?
>> You're funny. You got the teeth coming out.
>> It's It's where we're at right now as a society. It's society. It's not the hot people. Yeah. It's the algorithm pushing good-looking faces. the algorithm >> and everybody even in politics. Politics are trying to be good-looking.
>> Yeah. AOC [ __ ] I'm jacked off to her many times. Jesus Christ. I wasn't talking I was thinking more like JD Vance losing weight and putting on eyeliner.
>> Oh, I I don't know what >> all the Maraago jacked off to AOC.
>> No.
>> Oh, is that wrong?
>> No, I don't I don't Jack, you know, I don't >> I'm a progressive. I like her views. I'm >> That's why she's got to do speeches and behind bulletproof glass now. Guys like you >> J still shoots on the glass.
You just can't you just see like she just hitting the glass.
>> She's so hot. She looks like Rosario Dawson.
>> Yeah, she's super hot. But like I've never >> She's hotter than any other politician.
>> Yeah, she's the hottest politician there is.
>> There there's no one who comes close to her.
>> But no, I never jacked off to her. She's in She's in like a a power suit all the time.
>> That's hot. Oh. Oh. Is that too dominate? Is that too Is that too empowering for you to jack off to?
>> No. WHEN I WANT TO >> I'M THE FEMINIST. I'm jacking off to the powers.
>> WELL, NO. WHEN I WANT TO MASTURBATE, I just kind I find the naked women.
>> Oh, the naked women.
>> I go to the internet where the naked naked sex slaves.
>> You [ __ ] It's disgusting.
>> Yeah, I look for Only fan leaks.
>> She's hot, man.
>> I agree. I didn't say that. She's not. I just said I didn't I never jacked off to her.
>> Well, I've never jacked off to her.
That's a That's a >> Oh, you were lying.
>> That's a turn It's a phrase. It's a turn OF PHRASE.
>> WELL, THEN WHY DID YOU JUST YELL AT ME FOR NOT jacking off to her?
>> I don't know.
>> If you never did either. All right. So, obsession, rape or not rape?
>> Uh, can I just say, can I say sexual assault in the middle?
>> Sexual assault in the middle.
>> Mhm. What do you find?
>> That's my favorite genre.
>> That's what you type into the Google.
Sex assault in the middle.
>> I plus big titties.
>> If he [ __ ] her after, but wait, he still doesn't know it's >> I think after that phone call, it's no good. But I I stand behind the fact because a phone call is so weird because the Joker that just being a dude on the phone it is. Yeah, sure.
>> If you're like there's just still a part of him that's probably like maybe she just likes me for me, >> you know? I mean that's that's an argument. If I was a judge in court, I would side with you, >> right?
>> I would side with you in the back of my mind delusional.
>> In the back of my mind, I would be like is little weird after that phone call.
But >> weird. It's definitely weird. It's weird. Legally, the confusion is a valid argument. There's no I can't prove anything.
>> Be like, well, the guy said on the phone, the weird guy who just answered, >> right? Right. And I can't prove what you thought or anything. It's like, ah, all right, you're good. Little gray.
>> It's a little gray, >> you know.
>> But hey, man, we live in the gray, don't we?
>> It's a gray world.
>> It's a gray gray world.
>> Shout out in the comments if you think it's rape. I definitely don't think I definitely don't think the beginning that the wish is a is anything. That's just a guy. That's just a tale as old as time. A guy wishing a girl likes him, right?
>> If he if he if he did her if he had sex with her after his best friend made the wish for a billion dollars.
>> No, that's right. I'll say that. That's right. Once the billion dollars comes down, >> you can't argue it didn't work then.
>> That is really the only moment that's like really proof.
>> That is Yeah, that is staunch.
>> If he [ __ ] her after that, it's rape.
>> But he doesn't.
>> He doesn't. You're right. He doesn't >> kills himself or tries to.
>> Mhm. Right. He doesn't after that.
>> Yeah.
>> Because he knows it'll be ready for him.
>> He's like, "Well, now it's ready. Might as well just shoot myself."
>> Oh, now Oh, okay. Now, >> NOW HE'S LIKE, "NOW this doesn't hold up in court."
>> Can't get out of this. Takes his pills.
That's what That's why he did it.
>> But sadly, what do you all think? I want to hear from you. It's a complicated situation, but um I don't know. I I just think it's uh Yeah, maybe that's what makes the movie so interesting. That is a real conversation starter. Yeah. A little. Yeah. Cuz also now it's the very That's the other thing with horror movies. They always got to be like about something.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know, they can't just be like we're talking like Freddy Krueger.
>> Yeah. I'm in your dreams. Now it's got to be like well this is representing loss.
>> Right. Right. But this is kind of like that.
>> It's Yeah. This one's a little bit >> kind of like it talks as much as the other ones really are.
>> Maybe not. I mean it talks Yeah. I mean it's definitely works on it definitely works on a literal level, but you could say it talks a lot about just >> the fear of someone. If you're like an avoidant person, the fear of someone being into you, that could be the fear.
The fear of just someone really like like when he's like, "Can I go out to that party?" And she's like, "No, that's kind of like the fear of, you know, >> the fear of um I guess obsession."
>> Yeah. Someone being into you back >> too much and you don't want it.
>> Yeah. I mean, look, I still like the movie a lot. I think it what it's trying to say is a little confusing at times.
>> Is the whole thing about rape? actually.
>> Now you're like, is that what it's all a metaphor for?
>> Yeah. Is that cuz she's all into him and towards the end he doesn't want anymore, but he's kind of trapped, >> right?
>> So, she's kind of forcing him to.
>> I don't think it's about rape. I think it's about obsession.
>> All right. It's about Well, I think it's trying to question when you're really infatuated with someone. It's trying to question like, do you really see them or just this idea of them, >> right? And is this real? Is this love?
If I want when he says I wish she loved me back, he's basically saying I wish she was a different person, I guess. In a way.
>> In a way. Yeah. He's He's wishing that she went against >> who she is.
>> Who she really is.
>> Cuz I believe, if he's anything like me, I believe the infatuation is dependent on her being indifferent to him. The seeds of infatuation grow out of indifference.
>> Oh, beautiful. They also really played her up to be like the sweetest woman of all time.
>> Yeah. Well, she's just >> Do you have $20? And she goes and gives that homeless guy homeless guy.
>> All right. All right.
>> She's great. He's a piece of garbage for making a wish.
>> For making a wish.
>> First of all, we all know $20 is way too much to give a homeless person.
>> Yeah. That's way too from another person.
>> Yeah. I'd be pissed.
>> If you did that to me and you were like, "Can I give 20?" Yeah. You gave to a guy over there like, "What the hell was that?"
>> One time a homeless guy like cornered me and asked me for money and I looked in my wallet. I only had a 20.
>> Oh, that's the worst. DID GIVE IT TO HIM, >> BUT I DIDN'T GIVE A HOMELESS PERSON MONEY FOR another decade.
>> I'm like, I'm good for a while.
>> That's That's one of my big fears. It happened to me like a few days ago. A guy asked me and I knew I had some cash and I was like, >> I don't know what I got in there.
>> I was like, I may only have tens and 20s.
>> I like how you just said, I don't even want to take the risk.
>> Didn't even want to take I didn't >> like There might be a dollar in there, but I can't risk it. I can't I can't You can't have the man see you do this.
>> Maybe you could just tell them, "All right, I'll open it, but if there's anything above a dollar, you can't get it." You could tell him that.
>> Maybe. Yeah. So, you know, they like honesty or sometimes they just snap at you.
>> 20 is too much, though. That guy's like oding later from cuz he's buying way too much bad heroin at that point.
>> Yeah. 20 is far too much.
>> You don't want to spoil them.
>> Yeah. They'll get comfortable. They'll get used to it.
>> Yeah. I'm going to get cancelled.
>> So, they made her like into this sweet angel woman. sweet angel and uh >> who also wasn't really because we found out she was banging his best friend >> the whole time.
>> Yeah.
>> She was banging the guy who kind of looks like who would be more the main character, >> right?
>> It was kind of interesting. Like he looked like the guy who' like be into her but she wouldn't be a damn.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, just a fat-faced dude.
>> Mhm. But she was the guy she was hooking up with that guy.
>> Yeah. But uh but yeah, it was a good movie. It was um it was uh it was it was fun. It was it was it was scary in a unique way. I've never been scared of like a hot girl before.
>> Yeah, there was some good moves and start forcing cat, you know, or like beat the part where she beats to death.
That girl was great.
>> That was cool. She goes, she smacks >> cuz you know it's coming, but then it goes way beyond.
>> Yeah, it goes like super extreme.
>> Yeah. So extreme. Yeah. No, it was good.
It was [ __ ] up the movie. It's actually like >> Yeah. Why was Why did she feed him the cat? What's up with people? That happened in Smile. Did you see Smile?
>> Yeah. Someone feed someone. No, it's a birthday. It's like a gift. I saw that coming from the dead cat, too.
>> Yeah, I saw that coming from like 10 miles away. I was just waiting for that.
>> What's up with the dead cat stuff?
>> Well, some people find that creepy, but >> I'm a dog guy.
>> I don't know why her obsession with him thinks he should eat the cat.
>> Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, >> they don't really explain. I guess you could be like, I just wanted you to be one with the cat you love, >> I guess.
>> But they don't really explain that.
>> Yeah, I've never loved somebody so much.
Yeah, they don't even Yeah, that that part like I get maybe putting the cat in the Also, >> you know what? I you know, I might even change my argument. After she feeds him his cat, he's raping her.
>> That's it.
>> What do you mean?
>> That's what he was like, "Oh, wait.
That's not her anymore."
>> Uh uh. Yeah, you're right.
>> You're [ __ ] a crazy person.
>> Yeah. When she feeds you your cat, like I can't have sex with you anymore.
>> I guess you're right.
>> You just fed me my dead cat.
>> Cuz if you [ __ ] like a crazy person, that is rape, isn't it? Yeah, if they're out of their mind.
>> If I'm like have a hot girl with me and she's like clearly like having a manic episode and I'm like uh she's coming home with me. She thinks I'm uh Jesus Christ by the way.
>> Yeah. Yeah. If something like that Yeah.
If you were telling >> All right, I take it all back. It's Ray.
He should go to jail.
>> Does he [ __ ] after that?
>> I think cuz it happens really quickly, doesn't it? I think the cat scene's pretty fast.
>> So, I'm pretty sure she does. Yeah.
Yeah. If you like introduced to me some girl and then she went to the bathroom like she fed me my cat the other day.
>> Is that weird that >> I'D BE LIKE WE'RE DONE.
>> You're a rapist.
>> You can't go home with her.
>> Yeah.
>> She's out of her mind. But the only hot girls I [ __ ] have been crazy. They have a rapist.
>> I mean they're not crazy in that moment.
>> I think feeding a >> They don't think I'm like the messiah.
>> Yeah, >> but they they've you know they're a little borderliney.
>> Sure. A little kooky is fine.
>> Yeah. I I can't I'm not going to [ __ ] a hot sane woman. They're sane. Except for my wife who's hot.
>> Good save. There's only one. It's my wife. She's the only hot sane woman out there.
>> So, all right. So, you think it's right after the cat?
>> Yeah. I'm going to change it to after the cat. Like, oh, that is an insane. If somebody did that, >> she has like a brain.
>> No. Yeah. Your brain's not Well, you need to see a doctor.
>> Yeah.
>> We need to get you in.
>> Okay. So what if you schedule a doctor later that week, but then the night before that she went to [ __ ] >> You have the doctor scheduled.
>> It's scheduled.
>> She's jumping on your dick like, "Please let me [ __ ] you."
>> What is that?
>> Doctor scheduled.
>> I mean, you got to >> It's a gray area.
>> It's gray. I guess you should I don't know. I think No, maybe still. You know, >> here's the thing, though. I really do just believe in general that like if a hot girl is just like jumping on you, >> you're powerless.
>> You're just powerless. I just How's that rape if you can't do like you're just powerless?
>> You're completely powerless.
>> Is that not true?
>> Oh no.
>> Is a man able to push a hot girl off them?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I don't I I couldn't I >> You just can't. It's not in you.
>> I just become weak. I become Yeah. Yeah, it takes a it takes a strong man to do that.
>> Well, look, men are all rapists, and that's the point we're trying to make tonight.
>> You just don't got the strength in you.
>> Sound out in the comments if you think it's sexual assault and when you think it's sexual assault. And don't say the don't say the wish part. All right.
>> You don't like that. All right.
>> No, we all wish that a hot girl likes you was raped, then I'm [ __ ] Bill Cosby, baby.
>> We all agree.
after the after the cats might cut off.
>> All right. All right. Sound out in the comments when you think it's uh sexual assault. Uh or if you don't think it, you know, and you know, just whatever.
It's it's it's a complicated situation, so no one judge anyone in the comments, you know.
>> Yeah, this is we're just having a discussion.
>> We're just having a discussion here. Um so, where can they find you?
>> Um Oh, punchup.live.
>> Punchup.
Check him out. He mainly does cruises.
So I guess if you're going to like uh anytime soon.
>> No, I I'm doing uh I'm doing Zies.
>> Zies. Yeah.
>> Chicago in July 15th.
>> Zies. Great comic. Jeff is one of the funniest >> Ice House and then Yellow Door.
>> Yellow Door. What is it? Narnia. What?
The Yellow Brick Road and the Yellow Door.
>> Performing at the with the ice queen.
And >> I've heard of the Ice House. That's been known.
>> You mean LA? Mhm.
>> You mean you're doing a spot?
>> No, I'm doing a little headlining thing.
>> All right. All right. You check him out at house in LA.
>> Cool out. He's very funny. Check him out.
>> Yeah, that's a big room, buddy.
>> Shut up.
And as for me, I mean, look, Memory Room, I'm still pushing hard, you know.
Got to see Memory Room on YouTube right now. And uh also impressive, he's 26. I made a short film. I'm only 42 years old.
>> It's young. It's the new It's the new 30.
>> Can you believe that? That I could make a short film only at 42.
>> I mean, you know, >> it's like pretty impressive.
>> It is. I'm >> 42 and I made a short film.
>> What will you accomplish at 52?
>> 42. I made a 17minute movie.
>> It's pretty impressive. Uh but also um you know uh I'm most importantly uh or not most importantly, but I'm going to be at Grove in Atoria. Grove 34 in Atoria, June 6. Get tickets right now.
punchup.live/ronon/tick.
I'll be doing a lot of uh I'm doing a whole new hour. I got a new hour every 10 minutes, you know?
>> I don't know how you do it.
>> Yeah, you know, [ __ ] hot girls. I can't even write a [ __ ] joke. I'm putting out a special every [ __ ] week.
>> You really are. I haven't written a new hour in a decade.
>> But I'm ugly, so no one cares.
Yeah. Yeah, you're ugly. Hey, don't let them make a wish. Ugly people can't wish.
>> So, yeah. So, yeah, come on out of there. I I wish you I wish you come. I hope that's not going against your consent by me wishing you come.
>> And thanks for watching and we'll be back uh soon. Sorry that we've been late on the episodes. We had some problems, some malfunctioning issues, but we'll be back and thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. Cut.
>> Round is fat and he's a Jew. He'll tell you something that you already knew.
Your favorite movie sucks. Your favorite movie sucks. American Beauty, a Forest Gump. Your favorite movie sucks.
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