Apopka City Commission Discussion Workshop - Golden Gem June 17, 2026

[00:01:59]Mhm.

[00:03:04]>> Commission workshop for June 17th at 5:00 p.m.

[00:03:08]Uh for the invocation pledge, we're going to save that for the commission meeting coming up at 7:00. So, we will dive into the discussion items for Golden Gem.

[00:03:17]Uh the Golden Gem pond there on on Golden Gem Road. What we'll start with is a presentation from the city.

[00:03:24]Preliminary we'll start with that. Tetra Tech is also here as a third-party vendor for us to um ask questions. Any any kind of detail uh they may be jumping in on the presentation side of this as well or not. And whatever's comfortable there and whatever we need from there, but I will pass it off to Mr. Simanovsky.

[00:03:43]>> Good afternoon, everyone.

[00:03:45]Uh I'm [clears throat] Vladimir Simanovsky.

[00:03:46]I'm the public works director and the city engineer for the city of Apopka.

[00:03:51]Good afternoon, mayor and commissioners.

[00:03:53]Uh today we will provide an overview of the Goldenrod Reclaimed Water Facility, a little bit of its history, purpose, current progress, and upcoming steps.

[00:04:03]This presentation sets the stage for Tetra Tech's technical overview on the pond reconstruction.

[00:04:11]So, starting with a project overview, uh this project what it was envisioned more than a decade ago as a regional solution for the reclaimed water storage and distribution.

[00:04:22]As growth shifted to the northwest Orange County, Apopka is positioned to benefit from a system that ensures long-term water reliability.

[00:04:30]What you can see on the slide here on the map, uh you see the outline of the jurisdictional limits of the city.

[00:04:36]You see in the northwest part of Seminole Lake County the jurisdictional limits of Mount Dora.

[00:04:42]All of that brown area is actually the unincorporated Orange County. The yellow uh to the right is the city of Altamonte Springs. Longwood is just north of that that sends all the wastewater most of the wastewater to the city of Altamonte Springs.

[00:04:57]And we have we [clears throat] have in the Wekiwa Springs area uh Sunshine Water as a utility that was the former uh Sunlakes utility.

[00:05:04]utility and also in the meantime I think changed the name to Utilities Inc. So, it did transition.

[00:05:13]On the next slide, we have the regional significance of the project. So, for over 15 to 20 years, the city has expanded its reclaimed water system with significant assistance from the St. Johns River Water Management District and the Florida DEP.

[00:05:28]And this project continues the strong partnership.

[00:05:32]As you can see on the map, uh that outline of the black line is basically the Wekiwa Springs and Rock Springs basin map basin management action plan.

[00:05:43]And in the purple it's the Springs priority focus area for that uh watershed.

[00:05:51]And of course that incorporates also the Ocklawaha Springs.

[00:05:55]And pretty much what we can see from this map is almost the entire city is in the base management action plan to protect the the three Springs.

[00:06:05]So that's the regional significance of of this particular project.

[00:06:11]>> [snorts] >> Some of the environmental benefits, let's say put it simply, this project protects our Springs, reduces pollution, and helps conserve drinking water sources by using reclaimed water for irrigation instead of pumping ground water.

[00:06:25]>> [snorts] >> Basically, we recycle 100% of the Apopka's wastewater into reuse irrigation.

[00:06:35]Some of the partnership history, this partnership with the St. Johns River River Water [clears throat] Management District is and the DEP of course is one of the strongest and longest utility collaborations we have.

[00:06:47]The district invested directly by purchasing land specifically to help Apopka build this facility. As you can see on this map, there were two properties that were purchased by the district in 2009 when [clears throat] the district and the city entered into a memorandum of agreement. The north parcel was 60 acres and the southern parcel 40 acres for a total of 100 acres.

[00:07:08]In the meantime, there were several amendments since 2009 with the latest being approved just last month in May of 2026.

[00:07:22]On the next slide, we tried to show you some of the regional interconnectivity that we have in the system.

[00:07:31]Apopka is of course part of a broader reclaimed water network. These agreements that we have with Sunshine Water, Orange County, City of Altamonte Springs, and City of Mount Dora right now.

[00:07:43]Uh allow us to share water during times of surplus and shortage, uh improving sustainability for the entire region.

[00:07:50]The agreements range from 2011 to 2018.

[00:07:55]What you can see from the maps, uh Sunshine Water and Altamonte Springs are sending water directly into the Apopka water reclamation facility, which is the public works and utility complex, uh just south of Cleveland Street and between South Cleveland Street and Snowden uh Road. Orange County is sending water directly uh to the city system over at Marsden Road, just north of their wastewater treatment plant.

[00:08:23]And uh there's an equestrian trail right next to it.

[00:08:28]And Mount Dora is uh being connected through um at intersection of Golden Gem and Kelly Park Road.

[00:08:36]And that's basically that orange line that you see going along Kelly Park to the west, north to Round Lake Lake.

[00:08:45]Uh and uh to Lake County over at just the borderline there to the north, where they have a booster pump station.

[00:08:55]So, that was the latest agreement that we have achieved with the city of Mount Dora in 2018.

[00:09:01]On the next map, you will see next slide, you will see the city of Apopka reclaim water interlocal agreements and how these agreements clicks. There's an agreement term for initial plus successive time. Let's say the Sunshine Water that started in 2011, it's good for 99 years with a 10 additional years extension.

[00:09:22]Uh Altamonte Springs is good for 50 years, Orange County for 20 years, and Mount Dora for 10 years plus 5 years of uh extensions.

[00:09:32]Um The three, Sunshine Water and Altamonte Springs and Orange County, as I mentioned, they present basically a supply and inflow coming into the city and uh system that is going to Mount Dora satisfies the demand for the city of Mount Dora as an outfall.

[00:09:51]The next map, you'll see the overall reclaimed water utility service area, which is approximately 100 square miles, believe it or not, but that includes a lot of the water body, which is the Apopka Lake and a lot of the conservation area that has been purchased by the water management district to preserve the land.

[00:10:09]And in reality, we actually have about 60 square miles, which is almost double than the city jurisdictional area. So, it's fairly significant. Just for comparison, we have uh the total utility service area is about 106 acres and the city of Orlando entire jurisdictional area, including the airport and Lake Nona, is about 112 square miles.

[00:10:34]So, uh the city currently operates four facilities when it comes to the reclaimed water. Of course, the major is the Apopka Water Reclamation Facility of Cleveland.

[00:10:46]We have the North Shore Reclaimed Water Facility of Lost Road, the Northwest Reclaimed Water Facility right across on the east side of the Northwest Recreation Complex, and the Golden Gem Reclaimed Water Facility that is currently in construction.

[00:11:07]The completed project components where the project started sometime in 2019, and you can see on the first slide where the site was really cleared for the larger pond, which was completed in 2021.

[00:11:20]And in the next uh picture on the right, you will see the total completion of the east and the west pond in 2023.

[00:11:30]These ponds actually act like a large above ground reservoirs, holding the reclaimed water until it's needed.

[00:11:38]Um completing these two reservoirs is, of course, a major milestone that we try to achieve uh after the uh one of the failure of the liners that we had in 2024.

[00:11:51]The current construction uh we have the pump station, the distribution pump station in the Golden Triangle, which is the heart of the system. And this pump will take the stored reclaimed water and push it into the distribution system. Once this is built, the facility becomes fully operational, of course, with the one of the pumps at least. Uh the pump station has been designed by Wright Pierce, one of our utility consultants. Uh the bid advertisement was on May 31st, and the bid opening is scheduled for end of June, June 30th.

[00:12:26]Construction is expected to begin before September 1st, 2026, and is expected to be about 18 months.

[00:12:36]The current ongoing work is the pond reconstruction, of course, the east and the west pond, as you can see here, with [snorts] a pump station being right in the middle of it.

[00:12:46]Uh the conception design for west pond was released on June 5th, 2026. This work has been performed by Tetra Tech, one of our utility consultants. The final design for the west pond is expected in late August of 2026, and um the detailed technical discussion will follow by the Tetra Tech team.

[00:13:09]And finally, we have some next steps that are in front of us.

[00:13:14]Uh we plan to start the design of the east pond sometime in September 2026, start the construction of the west pond uh sometime in September, October of 2026.

[00:13:26]Uh the complete reconstruction of the West Pond is expected by March of 2027.

[00:13:33]Complete design of the East Pond in April May of 2027. The complete reconstruction of East Pond is to be determined because we haven't started on that design yet.

[00:13:44]And uh, we're committed to providing some regular milestone updates to the city commission and the residents.

[00:13:50]So, that's pretty much a little bit of the history of uh, this project and the importance of this regional facility.

[00:14:00]And I will uh, introduce my our team here from Tetra Tech who will give a technical presentation of the upcoming work.

[00:14:16]>> [clears throat] >> Thank you. Good afternoon. I'm Kevin Freeman. I'm with Tetra Tech. I'm the project manager for Tetra Tech for the Golden Golden Gem project. Um, we're teamed with Ardaman. They're our pond liner and construction experts. And we have um, Liquid Solutions Group is doing our hydrogeologic studies. So, um, three three key team members here. Um, kind of an overview of what we're going to be going over. I think from our perspective there's kind of three major discussion points. One being the existing conditions. What's what we're working with from a start.

[00:14:51]And um, our approach to design. How we intend to um, put these ponds back in service.

[00:14:59]And then three our implementation schedule.

[00:15:07]So, existing [clears throat] observations. Um, Tetra Tech was first uh, we first discussed the pond failure at the pond with the city back in 2024.

[00:15:18]Um, and we did have a prior phase to our design phase where we did look at some um, previous studies and evaluated the existing conditions looking at plans and some of the studies done by other consultants hired by the city.

[00:15:35]And the the kind of the key takeaways or key observations from those efforts whether it be site visits um or other studies that the failures at some of the seams within the liners seem to have resulted in leakage which may have contributed to further failures.

[00:15:56]The liner did show based on site visits signs of deterioration, discoloration, things of that nature.

[00:16:03]And also visible were gravel or rock fragment fragments, excuse me, present under the in the subsurface or sub the soil below the liner.

[00:16:14]Those conditions rocks can, you know, cause issues with the liner protrusions result in punctures and further kind of lead to bigger issues with with leaking. Another another item that that was discussed that >> [clears throat] >> is not visible at site conditions but some of the underlying soil conditions if you have kind of a clay or clay soil layer below that subsurface even um those that the permeab permeability of those soils is less. So when we get ground water coming through it can hit that soil and kind of ride and kind of there's a gradient there where it will follow to its kind of final resting place. So that's things that kind of leads me into our design approaches is one of the big considerations or two of the big considerations um in the design are dealing with kind of soil conditions and ground water. So So design solutions uh as I said key is to understand the subsurface soils. Um we have looked at previous reports. We are familiar with the uh geology and soil conditions in that area just from other work we've done. To date, we have not done any new borings.

[00:17:35]That's something we are still um evaluating as we progress with design, the need to do that. Um we did, however, we have installed piezometers.

[00:17:45]>> [clears throat] >> Excuse me, to look at uh monitor water water groundwater elevations around both ponds.

[00:17:52]Um so, moving into design, generally want to make sure that we're specifying through design and specifications soil conditions that um we have good clean fill free of rock and gravel, that it's compacted correctly. Um that we are evaluating groundwater conditions historically and and uh presently, and that >> [clears throat] >> even with those uh even with that information, our design does allow for um gas release or um relieving pressure from hydrostatic uplift through venting and other uh means underneath that uh liner. So, um liner material, another big uh consideration. So, looking at a 60-mil uh HDPE liner is typical for industrial applications, landfills, things like that. So, a little bit more robust. Um and then providing a protective soil cover on top of that liner to better protect it um if it if it is exposed.

[00:18:52]Um and then lastly, and probably one of the most important items is quality assurance during construction. So, our team members have probably 40-plus years of experience in installation and design of liners.

[00:19:04]They're in the field at key, you know, key times looking at subsurface soil conditions, making sure that there is uh that the soil is free from rock or gravel, compaction done correctly, liner seaming is done correctly, so quality control during construction and oversight during construction is is is very important to the um you know, to the the service life of the liner, so.

[00:19:29]>> [clears throat] >> So, groundwater elevations, this kind of just a very high-level overview of what we've done um to [clears throat] to kind of determine what we believe the groundwater elevations to be in in considering where we set the pond the bottom of the pond.

[00:19:46]So, [clears throat] we we've looked at historical rainfall data the soil boring and geotechnical data that was available from the previous designs. Uh we have looked at upper Floridan aquifer groundwater levels and surficial aquifer system groundwater levels through different monitoring wells in the area. Um and different avail um data available through through either St. Johns River Water Management District or other resources. That information is then kind of taken and there's some analysis done.

[00:20:19]Uh it's not it's more or less kind of like a model, but it's it's done through like a linear linear regression kind of an analysis within a spreadsheet, but all of that data is taken and then we develop a time series to kind of look at what we infer maximum and minimum groundwater levels to be over time in that area and different gradients, which way we think groundwater is flowing and so forth, so that we can incorporate that information into our uh design and account for any hydrostatic uplift or making sure we know where the pond bottom elevation is relative to the groundwater.

[00:20:59]Say historical data is limited. What we mean by that, that's really specific to the site. There were some borings and some groundwater information elevations collected at the time these ponds were initially designed and constructed. So, we do have some data specific to the site. We're continuing to expand on that data with the piezometers you see on the map. That's 10 piezometers, which is basically just a small well where we can measure groundwater installed around those were installed, I believe, in a few months ago. So, I think May may have been when they were put in. And we collected two rounds of groundwater elevation and then one more recently not shown here in the first week of June and we'll continue to do that either bi-weekly or monthly to kind of continue to monitor groundwater specific to this site. And that information will help us refine our design and make decisions. Um, and the last bullet there you'll see in working with the city in in the water management district, there were some comments as we develop our review of prior information. One of those was a concern with the pond stormwater pond in the development to the north. We we are watching that. The piezometers will help us watch that. I think our initial assessment is that that groundwater in that area is really flowing west to east not towards the Golden Gem site. But again, you know, it's it's it's something that we're watching as we move forward with design.

[00:22:31]So, implementation schedule. Um, we discussed with the city and the the the project does address both the east and west ponds. We initially are focusing on the west pond to try to get that 50 million gallons back into service as soon as possible.

[00:22:49]Um, that that design we we did complete a basis of design report and that was submitted in May. We did just recently share with the city 60% level plans for that pond.

[00:23:05]So, in general, the 60% design shows that pond more or less being put back in the same configuration based on our based on the information we we have to date, we're comfortable with the groundwater and then that pond elevation seems to be fairly well above groundwater based on the data we have.

[00:23:25]So, but what we are doing is we we intend to over excavate to put that liner actually a little 2 ft below where it is now and use that soil to cover it to save from having to bring in fill to cover the liner. So, uh it'll keep the volume the same, but it'll keep, you know, if the soil shows to be good fill, it'll keep from having to import fill and and and keep costs down. So, um as Vlad mentioned earlier, we don't have a firm schedule for the East Pond at this point. At the 90% deliverable phase uh for the West Pond, we will start to look at the concept for the East Pond and then that will help us depending on um what that design looks like determine what the schedule will be. So, um it it should be more or less in line with some of the dates that Vlad shared, but details will kind of help refine that schedule. So, um I think that concludes our presentations.

[00:24:29]>> Thank you very much, Mr. Friedman.

[00:24:31]Any initial uh questions?

[00:24:35]>> Uh yes, I do. And [clears throat] first, let me just start off, Mayor, thank you for the opportunity to have this workshop. I appreciate that you took my request in consideration, so thank you for that.

[00:24:45]>> Absolutely.

[00:24:45]>> Um and thank you for Vlad and um and your presentation as well. Thank you.

[00:24:50]So, um I just wanted to ask in terms of the 60 mil thick HPDE >> Yep.

[00:24:57]>> um liner, how long is that supposed to last?

[00:25:01]>> So, I would say I mean I I I If it's installed properly and with the soil cover, I mean you're looking 40 plus years. I mean this these liners they're been in landfills and and probably longer, but I think I think you can expect 40 plus years from a liner that's installed correctly at that at that thickness. Um, we we've they've been installed at landfills all over I mean so it's a so it's a robust liner.

[00:25:30]>> Okay. And then um, so is that the current liner that we have?

[00:25:35]>> I I The thickness, I believe, of the current liner is 40 mil. It is HDPE, same material, but it's a little bit thinner.

[00:25:43]>> It's thinner. Okay.

[00:25:44]>> And I think too, and please clarify me if I'm wrong, easily could be, that the current one should have had a layer of soil over it as well, potentially, maybe not?

[00:25:53]>> I If I remember correctly from the um, the geotechnical report, it was they did mention some um wanting to keep at least some water in the pond. I don't know that it had to have soil. The soil cover helps with uplift and with protect just general protection. Uh, but depending on I I and I well you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there may have been some guidance on water levels in the pond.

[00:26:19]>> Yes, I from my recollection, there was supposed to be about 5 ft of water in there.

[00:26:24]And I'm sorry. And that liner was actually 45 mil.

[00:26:29]>> 45?

[00:26:29]>> From what I remember for It's called Armaflex 45L.

[00:26:33]Um And that was recommended by the geotech at the time.

[00:26:38]>> Okay.

[00:26:39]>> It's in the report.

[00:26:40]>> And I have one more question.

[00:26:42]>> Mhm.

[00:26:42]>> But this is more of a of an explanation, so I I I understand it better. Um, you mentioned hydrostatic uplift. Can you explain that a little bit more just us that do not understand the term?

[00:26:54]>> So, if we set the pond bottom below the groundwater table, that water will push up on that liner.

[00:27:01]>> Okay.

[00:27:01]>> So, and we we can do that. We've installed and designed liners to account for that. That's not It's not that you can't do that, but you need to make sure your design accounts for that uplift. Um if we keep that pond bottom elevation that liner above the uh water table, we still have protections in place, but we don't expect that we It's not something we expect to see regularly, >> Okay.

[00:27:27]>> but we still put protections in place through venting to allow that pressure to be relieved if if we have extreme events.

[00:27:36]>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that.

[00:27:37]That's all I had. Thank you.

[00:27:40]>> Please.

[00:27:40]>> I >> I pretty much only had a couple questions, and basically my questions were the core sampling, um you know, are we going to rely on core samples that were done previously, or are we going to do core testing ourselves?

[00:27:54]>> we've been discussing that internally.

[00:27:56]For the west pond, we're comfortable with the information we have. For the east pond, we we once we kind of have a feel for the concept, that's going to probably dictate whether or not there's some uh additional borings required. I know right now those borings kind of go go through the center of that pond for the information that we have. So, that's something that we are considering. We haven't made any firm decisions based on just not having that concept um fully vetted yet. So.

[00:28:25]>> Yeah.

[00:28:25]>> Can you explain what that is?

[00:28:27]>> Core sampling?

[00:28:28]>> Yes.

[00:28:28]>> See what the chemistry or the makeup of the soil underneath it. The reason I was wanting to ask that is that way we can get a higher level view of what's what we can't see. Um the the the The questions I have is basically the under the underneath for the uplift. I want to know the clay versus sand mixture.

[00:28:52]So, that's what I'm most concerned about.

[00:28:55]>> so Colin here is with Ardaman. He's he's our geotechnical engineer. So, I mean, if there's any specific questions, he can probably give you a kind of a general overview of his knowledge of the area, but but so >> Well, the only reason I say that, we know we've had a failure already and that that that makeup that sand versus clay makeup is you know, it may have been specific to a certain area, but we know that it's there's a lot of sand present or it wouldn't have had the blowout.

[00:29:25]Uh what what I'm curious about is a more understanding of of the sand versus clay makeup, you know, cuz that clay can also assist in the uplift as the water fresh water. You know, it it's it's a structural support for up and down. So, I'm I'm more interested in how thick that is.

[00:29:50]>> Okay.

[00:29:52]Do you have any >> Yeah, certainly doing some >> If you can speak to the mic, I'm sorry, just so anybody watching online can can hear you as well.

[00:29:59]>> Yes, absolutely.

[00:29:59]>> Thank you very much.

[00:30:00]>> Um certainly I understand what you're saying and I I agree doing some additional soil borings we would probably do what's called a standard penetration test soil boring which recovers both the physical sample of the type of soil we have as well as a measurement of the relative density of the soil. Performance of those soil borings throughout some of these pond bottoms will give us a better idea of the general soil profile we're dealing with. We do know in this in this exact area that typically we have upper fairly clean sands over a transition to much heavier clay sands. Yes. Cuz the clean sand is more of a filter. Yes. And that interface between the upper clean sands and the deeper clay sands is very important to your point and it's not flat. It's not uniform. The elevation of that interface varies, particularly when you get into the the changing topography. There is a lot of changing topography here. Have it, you know, originally the bottom to the east was was more level, but then we had a distinct hillside coming up and there are clay soils in that hillside. You can see them if you >> One of the reasons I was asking that, being a a lifelong resident, I I understand the area quite well. I just want to make sure that that we may assume that there's clay there and it may have been extracted many years ago, but >> Yeah.

[00:31:23]>> I'd I'd like to know a little bit, you know, and we and we can go from the weakest point work out. I would suggest that we do a lot of core sampling at the weakest point and then find some consistency as we move out.

[00:31:37]Would be one of my recommendations.

[00:31:38]>> Yeah, I don't disagree. Yeah, I mean, I think having an understanding of that will help. We can certainly accommodate it as part of the design. It's already on our radar to do so, but having the more data we have on that the better so that we can see how that transition occurs, particularly as you go west up the hillside.

[00:31:56]>> Well, the the other thing I want to add is I am so thankful you are here because it gives a sense of of you know, professionalism.

[00:32:05]You know, you understand what what we're looking at and I appreciate you know, let's try to be as transparent as we can with that. I can help support that.

[00:32:14]>> Great.

[00:32:14]>> One of the reasons why I understand what the material you're going to be supplying us with, I want to understand it a little bit and I can help support that with the other group.

[00:32:24]>> Okay, very good. I appreciate that.

[00:32:26]Thank you.

[00:32:27]>> And just for the record, if you can state your name.

[00:32:30]>> Yes, my name is Colin Jewsbury. I'm a Orlando branch manager for Ardman and Associates, geotechnical engineers supporting Tet Tech in this effort.

[00:32:39]>> All right, thank you.

[00:32:41]So, when they initially filled the sinkhole, what did they use cuz you said specify that liner liner subgrade must be properly compacted and free of gravel or rock fragments. What did they originally fill the >> the chimney itself with?

[00:32:59]>> It was supposed to be riprap.

[00:33:02]>> Yeah, there it was originally one thing and then some other things got thrown in there as well. So, and that's on the East Pond that that Vice Mayor Cecilia was talking about right now. So, >> Oh, so that's the East Pond. So, we're So, we're talking about now the West >> We're we're talking about both. But, so the East Pond has not been as thoroughly gone through yet and overlooked >> Right.

[00:33:21]>> as the West Pond has. So, we're prioritizing the West Pond to get that up and running. East Pond's a little bit not a little bit, it's a lot more complex and a lot larger and a lot more expensive as well. So, >> But, the West Pond is not deep.

[00:33:34]>> True.

[00:33:34]>> So, >> Yes.

[00:33:36]>> The reason I was doing that was to get a better understanding of what that that area looks like.

[00:33:41]Cuz we know, you know, the the the hazards are there. So, the the more understanding we have underneath the pond, the the better off we know it's not going to reoccur.

[00:33:53]Yes.

[00:33:54]>> So, when the West Pond does get renovated that it's working up and working, how will that connect with the East Pond? How What's the design that you have that will start with the East Pond? And then the other question is, can you give an estimate of the cost for the West Pond at this stage?

[00:34:17]>> Yeah, so the two ponds are not connected and I don't think the intention for the design is they're not going to be connected in the future.

[00:34:25]>> They're not connected. They won't be connected.

[00:34:27]>> connected. I'm going to try to go >> They will be connected through a pipe underneath the ground.

[00:34:34]>> Correct. So, >> Is that the question you're asking?

[00:34:36]>> Yeah, because if they repair the west pond and they haven't even started to do the east pond, I just want to make sure that when the west pond is up and going that it's not depending on the east pond. Well, the east pond is not depending on the west pond. It'll be two separate ponds.

[00:34:54]>> Correct. Correct. So, there's a 42-in pipe that goes to the to the east pond and there's a 42-in pipe that goes to the west pond. Those two pipes will be connected with the construction of the pump station.

[00:35:07]So, and they have valves so we can isolate either one of the ponds and draw water from one or the other or we can draw water simultaneously from both.

[00:35:16]>> Okay.

[00:35:17]>> And the connection [clears throat] basically at the top where you see, I don't know if I can point out to this, but you can see the point of connection between where the blue area is and the gray area, the closest point between the two ponds.

[00:35:31]There is a berm at about elevation of 95 and that's primarily for maintenance and to keep the two ponds separate.

[00:35:41]So, >> saying 95? Where?

[00:35:43]>> Yes, it's about 95 elevation.

[00:35:46]>> Okay.

[00:35:46]>> The top of the pond that separates the two.

[00:35:48]>> Okay.

[00:35:51]Am I looking at the right one?

[00:35:53]>> So, it'd be in that right where you were looking on that that slide, yeah.

[00:35:56]>> Okay.

[00:36:00]So, have you been to the to the west pond? I mean, >> Yes.

[00:36:03]>> Oh, you have.

[00:36:05]Okay. So, tell me just kind of an estimated of the cost of what it's going to >> We We haven't done a We haven't done a cost estimate yet, but I'd say for a pond of that size, 8 acres for that liner, uh if you don't have to bring in fill, I think order of magnitude, any anywhere from half a million to $750,000.

[00:36:28]>> So, I heard you kind of say you had to excavate more from from the the the ground of the west pond.

[00:36:37]>> Yes, the the >> And you're going to use this what you excavate from it, you're going to reuse in the west >> That would be ideal assuming that soil is good to be reused and we Yeah, the idea is to over excavate so that we can use that soil for the cover on the liner.

[00:36:54]>> Why do I remember that that was kind of the problem in the first place that it was over excavated?

[00:37:01]>> That That's probably maybe the discussion at the time was about the east pond.

[00:37:06]On the west pond that wasn't the case.

[00:37:08]>> Okay.

[00:37:08]>> Yes.

[00:37:09]>> Yeah, cuz I do remember I do remember that that was a problem with over excavation.

[00:37:14]>> Correct.

[00:37:15]Yes.

[00:37:16]>> So, now if the soil is not it cannot be used, where are you going to get the soil from?

[00:37:22]>> So, it it that that that depends on it depends on a lot of things, but yeah, it would have to be sourced and depending on where it's sourced, that impacts the the cost of the fill.

[00:37:32]Um but yeah, we haven't gone into looking at where fill would be uh brought in from at this point.

[00:37:40]>> And if that's I mean, it would probably be like a a four times cost multiplier, correct? To to that five to 750 if we had to bring in fill.

[00:37:49]>> It it dep- It depends on the amount of fill, but yeah, you're you're looking at at least at least probably doubling your cost.

[00:37:57]It's 26,000 cubic yards based on the acreage of the pond and and kind of rough or I'll say numbers that we've seen presently about $17 a cubic yard, but that number can vary depending on where that fill is having to be trucked in from, so.

[00:38:19]>> If If can make a recommendation, uh have a contingency plan. So, in other words, have two plans going on at the same time. So, obviously follow one, but in the event that that does happen, we have this we have another plan, so we're not playing catch-up.

[00:38:34]>> Correct. Yeah, so it Yeah, it wouldn't So, what the way that works the way that we would [clears throat] approach that from a design standpoint is it doesn't really change the design. It just changes whether or not the soil can be used. So, when we bid that work, we make sure there is there is that that's identified and that that the contractors have to they're aware of that and when when that soil is when the determination is made, there's already a price or at least a unit price for bringing in fill. So, it's it's a decision that's made early in the once that liner can kind of be removed.

[00:39:10]But yes, as far as the design goes, there is language in the the contract requirements that require the contractor to be prepared for that.

[00:39:21]>> Okay.

[00:39:22]Thank you.

[00:39:23]>> But it it would start with the sampling.

[00:39:26]I mean, cuz >> Yes, with the sampling.

[00:39:28]>> Yes, yeah, one step actually sets our our path what direction >> Correct. Once we can start tearing apart that liner and really looking at the underlying soil conditions, that's that's that's correct.

[00:39:38]>> Thank you.

[00:39:39]>> Any other questions for up here, at all?

[00:39:42]Uh what I want to do now is allow the public to ask a few questions and then hopefully we can have a little bit of dialogue just to make sure that anything that's kind of out there that maybe we're not thinking of that the public can ask and and get a comfort level as well. Sure. Uh anybody from the public wish to speak on this?

[00:39:57]>> Albert McGinley, 3603 Golden Gem Road.

[00:40:00]In the first instance, we're speaking about borings. I don't think borings are applicable in the east pond. We should be looking at electrical resistivity and we should be looking at uh sonic buoys because we have no idea what depths anomalies lie underneath that pond. We don't know idea how many of them there are.

[00:40:16]Uh you might argue I'm not an expert, but then again, I'm an engineer. Maybe that was 30 years ago, but I do know the questions to ask, and I now know where to find the answers. It's called artificial intelligence, and that gives me access to the all the experts in the world.

[00:40:33]So, I'm confident that what I say here today, I can back up. First thing, 107 million gallons of water was pumped into the East Pond. Yet, when it collapsed, there was 300 million gallons of water according to DEQ in that pond.

[00:40:47]There's 200 million gallons of water unaccounted for.

[00:40:50]Where did that 200 million gallons come from? I'll tell you where it come from, and nobody's spoken about today. It came from inadequate drainage on that site.

[00:40:58]The liner seams did burst, but it's a chicken and egg situation. Why did the liner seams burst? Was it because there was erosion underneath the liner, and material was moved from under the liner? The liner seams were only rated, I think, about 100 PSI or tested to 300 PSI.

[00:41:14]The minute there was erosion under the liner, you were going to get collapse.

[00:41:17]Next thing, the East berm was a man-made berm. The pond was dug out, then material was bulldozed over to the East berm. So, that's a man-made feature that was never potentially properly compacted.

[00:41:28]There's a whole lot of things that I don't know, but what I do know is prior to anything happening here, there's satellite pictures that show what's called hippos or wheels, which is protrusions coming up from under the liner of the pond. Those typically were in alignment with the East berm, and they were at the north end of the berm, and I counted 12, which appeared and disappeared over a period of time. Now, we could say those were gas, but if they were gas, is that methane gas? Is that gas that originated from organic material that rotted under the pond? The answer is no, because I have pictures of the pond being excavated, of pictures of the liner going in. All the organic material was moved from that pond. So, if there was gas coming up or I'll tell you where it came from. It came from the displacement of air underneath the liner pushing up. And that displacement of air came from water running down the road from Golden Gem Road ingressing underneath the pond. You can see all around the pond the discoloration is clear residue.

[00:42:32]And it's all around the pond. So, what I'm going to say to you is we need radical drainage rearrangement round about that pond.

[00:42:40]When that pond was built it was problematic because it was the largest pond of its type and there wasn't a lot of research had been done at that particular time. Were there mistakes made in the construction of the pond?

[00:42:50]Yeah, there was. We could have done with proper drainage underneath the pond. We could have done with something to to stop the air building up and the hippos rising.

[00:42:59]But there are a whole lot of things that I'm not here to to to make it difficult for them. I would rather give them the information that I have and help them decide the best way to move forward this. And I think I have more information than anybody in the area in terms of photographs and what's happened in that pond.

[00:43:18]>> Thank you, Mr. McInnis. Two of the things that are definitely of concern is definitely the berm on the east side, that east pond berm, the bigger one there.

[00:43:26]I'm from my understanding we haven't done any type of site analysis or any type of analysis into that yet. Correct?

[00:43:32]Okay.

[00:43:33]But that will be part of when we do take a deeper dive into the east pond, that'll be part of that evaluation, correct?

[00:43:41]>> That's correct.

[00:43:41]>> Okay. And then the if you can for this one I I just want to make sure everybody can hear the answer this. Do we have a drainage plan or will that be coming up for any type of water runoff on site to make sure that nothing's getting under the the liner because that was what was identified previously that potentially attributed to that failure of the east liner.

[00:44:02]So, are we planning for that? Is that already built into the plan in some capacity?

[00:44:05]>> Yeah, correct. Similar to the West Pond, uh the liner design will account for any will have um drainage or drainage and vents for drainage or uh release of any gas or air. So, it does have a system built in to allow that pressure to be relieved. Now, the drainage for water is, you know, the gas the gas venting is um passive. The drainage for water is has something that has to be monitored and can be pumped out if there's looks to be an issue. Um but again, part of the drainage for part of the part of the design will be to make sure what we're accounting for groundwater levels and the that clay soil uh silty layer that he mentioned where it kind of runs down the road and it comes in at above that pond elevation. So, our design will account for those and make sure that we can handle any uplift, whether it be from groundwater, uh perched water, or um trapped air or gas for that matter.

[00:45:04]>> Okay. Okay.

[00:45:05]>> So, in that design, are we going through your team with that?

[00:45:08]>> For the East Pond?

[00:45:10]>> West Pond. Both. Well, either one.

[00:45:11]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:45:13]>> So, yes was the answer. Yes.

[00:45:14]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:45:15]>> Okay, perfect. Any additional questions with that? Any of that additional information?

[00:45:19]>> No.

[00:45:20]>> Uh do you have any question I have in terms of the pump station? Are you will you be designing that too or is that something that's separate?

[00:45:27]>> That's a separate consultant. Our our only role is to make sure that the penetrations that come into the pond through the liner to pull water for the pump station are done in a way that it doesn't impact the liner. So, our design will account for that pipe penetration, but but that's all.

[00:45:42]>> And then I I guess Vlad Vlad's um Vlad, in terms of the pump station, is that going is that that pump station designed to support us in terms of the water levels, uh making sure that we're not getting too much, but we're not getting too little and >> Correct.

[00:46:01]>> compensating if necessary.

[00:46:02][clears throat] >> Correct. That system is designed actually for the build out conditions.

[00:46:07]So, regionally the anticipation is to have 12 million gallons a day extracted from this uh site, from these two ponds. Now, the the new [clears throat] permit will allow for 13.8. That is to accommodate all the demand north of the facility, which is about every everything that will that will go to the south. So, some water will go to the south. That's about 5 million gallons, and the rest of it up to 3.8 million gallons will go to the north.

[00:46:34]That's because of the KPI and all the development that we're seeing that that area.

[00:46:38]>> And that And that will support water pressure up in that area, correct?

[00:46:43]>> Uh correct.

[00:46:44]>> Okay.

[00:46:44]>> Yeah.

[00:46:45]>> And something I did want to address with that, if you're able to go back to the slide specific to uh reclaimed water utility service area.

[00:46:53]>> Uh the testing we need to go back.

[00:46:56]>> Cuz it's I'm going to go I knew that we're going to have to go >> Is this one?

[00:46:58]>> Yeah, I just want to add a little more detail as well. Yes, thank you. So, if you look to the bottom, kind of perfectly centered, but then a little bit further north, you'll see a green line that jets to the right a little bit, so to the east. So, that's that's a project that is in the works in some capacity. I'm not exactly sure where we're at with that, but I know it's it's getting pushed forward to basically help get water to that north area in a much faster capacity and in a quicker way.

[00:47:22]So, we're working on that to make sure cuz I know we did receive emails specific to getting water and water pressure >> And Rock Springs Road.

[00:47:29]>> Correct. Rock Springs pretty much all of our northern communities are experiencing this issue. So, that will be a a shorter-term fix that will get that pressure out there um and get water uh to the north quicker. So, that project's in the works right now and moving forward.

[00:47:43]In addition to that, though, this will all be connected to a I'm going to get the vernacular wrong right now, but a circular system that's all connected, being the Golden Gem Pond as well as to Northwest Rec uh all the way down to the Cleveland facility as well. So, this will help to build all that out, but that that green kind of sliver there is what's going to be that first hurdle to overcome to make sure that water is getting up there and then the Golden Gem reuse pond, once it's up and going, will also be that kind of almost redundancy or backup to make sure that that pressure is consistent and not residents are going to have any experiences down there right now.

[00:48:16]>> And that's the Golden Gem?

[00:48:18]>> Well, Golden Gem is going to help with that and that'll help with Rock Springs Ridge, all of our new developments in the KPI, any current off of Jolly Parkway, Happy Lane, all of those up there and even some Popka High School I think is even on the north side, if I'm not mistaken.

[00:48:33]>> I fed from the north side.

[00:48:34]>> Yes, it is over just off Ficaro.

[00:48:36]>> Yeah, so it's that's kind of the line there. So, this this green pipe in the middle though is what's going to help to really get us cuz I I want to say there's no pipe there now right and it's it'll be a 30-in pipe.

[00:48:48]>> There will be a 30-in pipe, correct.

[00:48:51]>> Going all the way up there. So, that gets the water. The issue that that's been somewhat of a misstatement is we it's not that we don't have enough water, it's we don't have the ability to move the water quick enough.

[00:49:02]So, this is what this will help to do is is get water where we need it the time that we need it.

[00:49:09]Staff has done great with what we've had, but these are the additional steps that will take to to properly serve our residents now and the new ones coming in.

[00:49:17]>> Right, cuz there's one division the new one Pumpkin that they only have like an 18-in pipe.

[00:49:27]>> On Pumpkin?

[00:49:28]>> Because they're the ones right off Pumpkin they the gated community off Pumpkin.

[00:49:34]>> What kind of a run?

[00:49:35]>> Oh, Picaro run.

[00:49:36]>> What kind of run? Yes, that's what I was told that that particular subdivision has an 18-in pipe. That's why they have a lot of problems with pressure.

[00:49:46]>> Yeah, there is a 16-in I think in front of the property. Yes, but the one connecting to it is a 12. So that's where the construction is and that's what we're trying to do with extending this 30-in we're trying to expand that to at least 16, maybe 18-in going to the west.

[00:50:04]And also interconnect from the backside the system because they have the they have a separate entrance on the west side of Rogers Road. So once all of that is interconnected I'm hoping they're going to have a better pressure there. There's some Yeah, well there there there are a few I'm saying this because there are a few pipelines there about 4-in there. They may have to be inside the subdivision. They may have to be upsized to six.

[00:50:34]>> So now the new subdivision in front of Wakaya Run Park and what is there the pipes there?

[00:50:41]>> Is it Punky Pines I think?

[00:50:42]>> Punky Pines to to the north? That's Wakaya Ranch I think. It's >> Maybe that's it.

[00:50:47]>> Is it either way to the west of Northwest right. Immediately bordering yeah.

[00:50:53]>> Correct. They they just finished the phase one they're moving into phase two possibly phase three.

[00:50:58]>> Yes.

[00:50:59]>> Yes.

[00:51:00]>> Okay.

[00:51:00]>> So they'll have and that's and that's an additional issue that we're dealing with right now is that we in our wise wise government planning is we have plumbing pipes that are going from 4-in 12-in back to 4-in back to 30-in so it's >> Yeah.

[00:51:16]>> We're trying to get that consistent and large and you know >> goal is to loop the system everywhere possible. So you have supply from at least two connection points. That way you can maintain the pressure.

[00:51:28]Same thing with the water.

[00:51:30]>> Same thing with >> Same thing with the water system because otherwise you're going to have stagnant water you're going to have you're going to have to flush the hydrants too many times and just Yeah, it's it's problem.

[00:51:42]>> So that looping system is is I guess the key to make sure water is going where it needs to be.

[00:51:46]>> That's helpful. Thank you.

[00:51:48]Thank you.

[00:51:49]>> Any other uh public comments specific to this?

[00:51:53]>> I think there's a whole lot more here that we should have really been discussing for the good of the town in the future.

[00:51:57]Uh I feel that >> Please come up to the mic.

[00:52:04]>> Albert McKimmy, 3603 Golden Gem Road. I feel there's a whole lot of things here tonight that we're not discussing that should have been discussed.

[00:52:11]It's all going to come down to costs, and I'm going to stick my neck out. I've never put from the fact that at the end of the day we're going to spend $25 million at least on getting this facility up and running. And that does include the pumps and things that we're going to put into.

[00:52:26]But really what we should be doing is having a far broader discussion on how the city could use an alternative manner of thinking to facilitate paying for this.

[00:52:39]Um we don't have the time tonight to go into that. But let's just Let Let me give you an idea how my mind is is is is thinking, cuz it won't take seconds.

[00:52:48]The amphitheater is a public park.

[00:52:52]It has retention ponds all round about it.

[00:52:55]Golden Gem is a retention pond, but it's a closed facility of 103 acres.

[00:53:01]There's a lot that facility could be rearranged into a park.

[00:53:07]If it was a park, you could use impact fees to redo the park, make pathways, do the drainage. And it wouldn't be coming out of your pocket because repairs to the pond itself has to come out the general fund. You can't get grants to repair the ponds.

[00:53:23]So, and you know, I would like to be part of of a different way of thinking about how we can resolve some of the problems. Uh and tonight I feel that we we we minimized the real things that that I'm concerned about for that problem or that that pond. I'm really concerned about the easterly berm, the one that was man-made, because there's already signs showing in that at the bottom of the swale where there's been erosion and there's been a collapse on the outside on the easterly side of the easterly bank. There's all sorts of things that we're not mentioning, and I think they need to be addressed. And I've made myself available to the public works department. Nobody's ever called me. I've got the documentation. I've got the photographs.

[00:54:11]And gentlemen, you're the engineers of record. That pond wasn't filled with riprap. It was filled with construction rubble, and there was a mound of that gravel. They then put grout on top of it. You've no idea if there's erosion of that gravel underneath, and there could possibly be another sinkage where the repair was made. I have the photographs.

[00:54:30]I have the videos. You're welcome to have them. Give me your business card, and I'll come. I'm not looking to attribute blame.

[00:54:36]I just want to make sure this doesn't happen again.

[00:54:39]>> No, I don't think you for that. And what I want to make sure, and I know it's we're still kind of shifting to new leadership here. This isn't going to be our last discussion on this. It's not going to be our last. We're going to continue to make sure that everybody's updated, questions are answered, updated presentations as we get new information are coming. So, I want to make sure this isn't the only one we're having. We're going to continue to come out here as we find that new information. So, I just I want to make sure that you're aware of that as well, that to the public, to the commission, this isn't our last time by any means. As the new information comes, you guys will get it. And hopefully you guys have started to see that too on the back >> Yes.

[00:55:10]>> Information I'm trying to get to you guys as quick as possible to make sure that when I know it, you guys know it, and the public can know it. So, um well received on that, and I did see that, you know, ammenitizing that area um into some type of park space is creative. So, there's also there's a safety component to that as well. You want to make sure that you can do it in a balanced way. So, well received for sure, and uh each step will have an update. I promise you that. So, this pond is a much, much, much bigger discussion. There's so much more to unpack with that on almost every single level. So, um again, this won't be the final one.

[00:55:44]There will be updates, uh presentations, and and as we get that information, the public and the commissioners will be getting that as well. So, I I promise you that.

[00:55:52]Any other public comment on this?

[00:55:56]Radley, anything?

[00:55:57]>> Uh no, just wish you good luck.

[00:56:01]>> Nope, I don't have anything.

[00:56:04]>> Perfect. Um let me see. How much time have we got left? So, what we can do now is we can shift to is there any specific public comment, just general public comment of any topics that we want want to be discussed other than the Golden Gem Pond at all?

[00:56:15]Is there anything?

[00:56:17]>> Well, something I just wanted I know that these workshops just I want to apologize, but I previously had a medical appointment scheduled actually 2 months in advance. So, I'm just asking with these workshops in order for me to change that particular appointment that I have every month, I need like a 2-week notice to change it cuz I have to go to that appointment.

[00:56:35]>> Understood. Yeah. And and sorry that maybe this wasn't articulated properly.

[00:56:38]So, I apologize.

[00:56:39]>> Okay.

[00:56:40]>> Again, we're still working on the calendar. So, yes, absolutely.

[00:56:42]>> I just need 2-week notice now. I can change my appointment.

[00:56:44]>> Absolutely. No, I apologize for that.

[00:56:46]So, we'll make sure the calendars are updated. We're still working on that.

[00:56:49]And you may have I actually just got my calendar updated specifically, and it was too much stuff now. So, I'm trying to um I'm getting too much information on too.

[00:56:56]We'll make sure that's why I apologize.

[00:56:57]Absolutely.

[00:56:58]Um all right. No no public comment. Is there anything specific do we want to go down this list a little bit to discuss anything else or we want to maybe focus on one thing next uh next workshop, so the second meeting in July to to discuss maybe the the appointments of mayor commissioners to boards, Metro Plan, and Lang. Um >> Right. Um >> Do you want to save that for for that next >> I just had a question. Um so, uh Mr. Williams, Radley, if you could um just give me a structure of the different boards, who's on the different boards, what are the terms of the different boards, so that way I I know what they are, so I have them available just for my own >> Sure. Sure we can pull together what we what we're currently involved with and everybody yeah.

[00:57:44]>> Yes, please. Thank you.

[00:57:45]>> Just understand exactly a little more detail there.

[00:57:47]>> Yeah, just it gives me an idea cuz I obviously through your discussion Commissioner Anderson, I know you're part of the Metro plan and I know obviously that our Vice Mayor is part of our Lake Apopka board, but I didn't know if there's other boards that they participate in, what they are, what's the term of each board, you know, just again, gives me some knowledge.

[00:58:08]>> All of us.

[00:58:08]>> All of us, everybody.

[00:58:09]>> And the residents as well. So you know, that's absolutely >> that. Thank you.

[00:58:12]>> all got on the same page with that.

[00:58:13]>> Yeah, thank you.

[00:58:14]>> Anything else we want to discuss right now?

[00:58:17]This is the time.

[00:58:18]>> Other than um you know, I I'd like to get an update with the pioneering agreement cuz I am seeing on social media kind of these little videos of where, you know, what's coming with Wild Oaks. They have a They have an apartment build a dwelling multi-dwelling, but yet I know that we still have an issue with the widening of Kelly Park.

[00:58:40]And um my understanding from our finance director that there is a third amendment, has it been agreed upon, signed?

[00:58:50]Nothing.

[00:58:52]>> And so I'll give a I don't want to misspeak by any means a kind of a brief update of what I know so far. Last time I talked to her was maybe a week and a half ago. So I I may not have the most up-to-up-to-up-to-date, but um Mr. Williams can probably fill in a little bit. So what happened was that there was uh extensive delays on I'll take it back a little bit more. The whole point of the pioneer agreement is to get a new road quicker and cheaper than what the city could build it themselves. Right. That was That's the impetus for having a pioneer agreement in this capacity. It's going to be cheaper, faster, give our residents exactly what they need. Problem is it's taking longer and looks like it's going to be more expensive now. So, when I came into office, I realized there were some provisions within the pioneer agreement that uh weren't being followed and timelines that were not being kept up with. Uh inclusive of one being that we need to notify the pioneers within this agreement that the project was going to be more expensive than what originally and Mr. Rowland, please jump in if I get any of this incorrect. Uh more expensive than what it was originally agreed to or estimated at.

[00:59:52]We're we were required to give that notice. That notice was never given ever and we knew that a while back. So, I immediately gave that notice because what that notice does is then puts the developers on notice that, "Hey, you have to contribute more funds at this point or we have to contribute more funds or we just need to cancel it and do the road ourselves." So, that's what it it just makes sure that kind of brings everyone back to the table, gets the ball rolling again because we were really stalled out on this. So, we provided that I think we got somewhat to an agreement of where this cost is coming in at. I want to say it's around 25 to 26 million now, whereas it was substantially less than that before. Um maybe by 10 million less-ish, somewhere in that range. So, they're they seem to understand that. So, there's that. What there was a discrepancy on what properties impact fees apply to this fund that would pay for this as well.

[01:00:46]So, on this third amendment or agreement, that's still being worked out if I'm not mistaken. So, it was basically does it only include the pioneers' properties and only the impact fees that they would owe or does it include all of the Kelly Park Interchange properties whether whether the pioneers are part of it or not or does it only include west of uh Plymouth Sorrento Road properties? So, there were just some discrepancies there and and what I had also requested is that I don't want to continue to do multiple amendments. Let's get this amendment done with all the updates that we need. If there's any clarity or any ambiguity, let's get it done on this third amendment. So, from my understanding, we're we're close there.

[01:01:21]Uh and the one biggest hiccup we're dealing with now is that we still don't have all of the right away. There's one holdout right now that we're working through and we need to make a decision soon. And I'll have the attorney Shepard update us and we I'll if it's okay, I'm going to have him give a proper update at the next workshop of how we want to move forward on um gaining the right away.

[01:01:48]>> Right. Only cuz I don't want to see this Wild Oaks kind of fall on the wayside as we did with the Station Street downtown where we just kind of let it roll and here we are, you know.

[01:02:02]>> Well, that's where I wanted to come in.

[01:02:03]If there's a provision in there that we need to be holding ourselves or anybody else feet to the fire. We're part of this agreement, so I want to make sure that the provision's in place we're all following.

[01:02:11]>> Yeah.

[01:02:12]>> Um so they it it I'll tell you it brought everyone back to the table very quickly and they are actively involved and the success of all of our all of the projects in that area and for our residents, new and current, will be that road widening including some other roads in the area. So my point was either get the road done as agreed to so that our residents can use it or we'll cancel this and we'll just build the road ourselves at this point with those same impact fees.

[01:02:40]>> Okay.

[01:02:41]>> So it was one of the I just need the road.

[01:02:43]>> Yeah.

[01:02:43]>> At the end of the day, we need the road for our residents. However they want to figure it out as long as we are not being hurt in that manner in any financial capacity. But there's just a lot of delays to it. So Mr. Williams, did I miss anything or anything you want to correct?

[01:02:55]>> No, like you mentioned, we do have a proposed third amendment. The last uh staff the last several weeks have been reviewing that proposal from the developers from the Pioneers. We are at a point we're going to be getting with the mayor here again to kind of recap review the staff's uh review of the proposed amendment and then potentially be bringing that to commission here very soon for consideration. So things are progressing still. Uh it's just taking us a little time to make sure >> We get it right.

[01:03:20]>> We're checking everything. As Mayor mentioned, we really want this to be the last amendment that we're going to bring forward.

[01:03:28]>> Is that helpful?

[01:03:29]>> It is, only because you know me with social media and all of a sudden I'm seeing all these videos and I'm like Wait a minute, we still haven't done the road.

[01:03:37]>> have a road. Yes, agreed. No, and and that's where for me it's I wanted to motivate >> And a lot of those videos are just marketing videos of real truth. So, I would get caught up on social media marketing videos.

[01:03:47]>> Correct.

[01:03:47]>> You know what? They The regular public doesn't know that.

[01:03:51]>> No, yeah.

[01:03:52]>> They're waiting for that and then what happens and I'm at the supermarket and I'm local, the first thing they say is When is this happening?

[01:04:00]>> But I think it's so important for us to express that information on social media isn't the gospel.

[01:04:05]>> Isn't always right.

[01:04:05]>> It's not always right.

[01:04:06]>> And Michael, too, is in in in the background, too. I want to make sure that I'm getting you guys information as quick as possible as well so that you can easily know, "Okay, that's not true." Or "Hey, it is true and it's what it is." So, it's going to That's been a big thing for me to make sure the commission gets the information as quick as possible.

[01:04:19]>> we have to think about the public. If it's being disseminated to them however, which way, whether it's social media, social videos, they don't they're not here knowing that behind the scenes these are some of the issues. They're seeing this and they're like, "All right, when is this happening and how quick and how soon and why isn't it happening?"

[01:04:40]>> No, I agree, but I think it's really important for us as a council also to express the importance that things on social media >> are not accurate.

[01:04:45]>> Absolutely. All the time. Not even a percentage of the >> And also, too, in the background, something we're working on is creating a a a really robust marketing team as well so that it helps to get the information out more articulated.

[01:04:55]Um >> Yeah, that's right.

[01:04:56]>> So, that will get Do we have a P P I O?

[01:04:59]>> Not yet.

[01:04:59]>> Not yet.

[01:04:59]>> We're working on it. Actively working on it.

[01:05:01]>> Okay, that's that we do need.

[01:05:03]>> Yes, I'm totally agreeing. Any other topics or anything you just want kind of a high-level update on from anything, anybody?

[01:05:09]>> No, Mike I was just going to ask these items, these future workshop discussion items, is it something that you want to put on or is it something that you're asking or asking if this is something you want us to consider putting workshops or I was just trying to >> How I was thinking about this is these were provided to me, I think, from or provided to my office from from the commission.

[01:05:30]So, I I would like to go through each one of them, kind of knock them out and just kind of go down the list. And we are I'm happy to re-prioritize however you want to prioritize them or, hey, that's not a priority anymore, we don't want to talk about it, which is I'm fine with. So, that was kind of my setup or what my I was expecting to do, but >> I guess whoever took the suggestions of the topic should be the one probably leading the charge with it cuz those none of my recommendations. So, I guess whose recommendations were some for the some of the workshops. I think that's important.

[01:05:58]>> Well, I'll take the ownership of the one at the first one because I truly believe the mayor ought to be part of the Metro board.

[01:06:06]Um you're you're you're sitting on a board with all the other mayors.

[01:06:10]>> That's not accurate.

[01:06:12]>> uh immediately commit you speak for the city.

[01:06:15]Um you had a mandate.

[01:06:18]The mandate was the city wanted a strong mayor.

[01:06:22]We need a strong mayor sitting with the other mayors.

[01:06:25]Um the other thing is we don't have a alternate to it.

[01:06:30]And I think it's important every other city has an alternate to it. We're the only one that does not have an alternate.

[01:06:37]>> Well, >> The other thing is they the alternate uh they don't call it an alternate, they call it president.

[01:06:45]So, you know, the Orlando has three or four.

[01:06:49]Uh Altamonte has two.

[01:06:52]Maitland has two. Pretty much, if you go down the list, all of them have multiple representations and we have one.

[01:06:59]>> So, to clarify something that is actually not accurate, um every member of the board is not a mayor.

[01:07:06]In addition to that, um Well, every every member is not a mayor cuz I'm a member and I'm not a mayor.

[01:07:12]Um in addition to that, uh we don't make decisions for the city without speaking with the other council.

[01:07:19]So, we don't make any executive decisions for the city without speaking with everyone. So, even a decision has to be made on the metro plan, which I don't think the previous mayor or any mayor have made a decision about the city without voting on it with the council. So, that's actually not accurate at all.

[01:07:32]>> What do we bring to the table at Metro?

[01:07:35]>> I'm just I'm >> What do we bring to the table?

[01:07:37]>> I'm a part of the city.

[01:07:38]>> We have the pool of money and then we we advocate from it from there and then prioritize stuff. So, >> Orange Orange County, their chair is Mayor Demings.

[01:07:46]They have 1 2 3 four commissioners that sit on that board.

[01:07:51]Now, they can be alternates. It doesn't It says alternates. Three of them are alternates.

[01:07:56]The primary's the one.

[01:08:00]Orange County actually has I take that back. They got six alternates.

[01:08:05]>> So, it's probably all of their commissioners. Everybody >> That's what Which is not a term I think.

[01:08:09]>> I think it's a great idea. We can rotate things around, too, as needed to fit um agendas if for some reason I can't be there or however it is. So, um Ocoee has a mayor.

[01:08:18]Uh Kissimmee has a mayor. Altamonte has a mayor.

[01:08:23]Um Orlando has the mayor and then their alternates are all commissioners.

[01:08:32]So, when you ask who who brought it up, I brought it up.

[01:08:35]But I think that you ought to appoint the alternate.

[01:08:38]>> Okay.

[01:08:39]>> They're speaking in your right if they're if they're speaking for the city of Apopka, it needs to be you or your alternate.

[01:08:45]>> We speak as a as there's not one voice for the Apopka. We're commission, we speak together and we vote. So, there's not one voice.

[01:08:52]>> Well, if you can have that uh if you can send it to Radley Radley, Mr. Williams, excuse me, uh just uh convey that to everybody, please.

[01:08:59]>> Everybody else is an alternate.

[01:09:01]>> So, what we can do and I'd like to we'll bring it back part of the the overarching appointments in general at the next workshop and can kind of go from there. Again, at the workshop we can't make any decisions, just keep that in mind. So, just be mindful of that, but definitely able to articulate where we go.

[01:09:15]>> one The other one was the Apopka Natural Gas. They're uh they are having an election. The charter of the Apopka Natural Gas mentions that you've got to have three elected officials on that.

[01:09:27]One of them is up and they have only got four. I mean uh three.

[01:09:31]One of them is up for election. So, if that person's off, then we're going to be out of charter for the next meeting.

[01:09:39]>> Okay.

[01:09:41]All right, we'll look into that then, Mr. Williams. We'll take a look at >> Yeah, and I did uh Tammy did gather some information on Lake Apopka Natural Gas and the processes for membership. So, we do have that information. I can share that.

[01:09:53]>> Perfect. We can bring that back at the next workshop as well and then if we need to or if we choose to add that to the next agenda. So, that'd be the first one in August. We can make some changes if we want to. If not, or if we want to create a policy of some sort, whatever that looks like, so that maybe things are rotated around.

[01:10:10]Uh however we want Whatever that looks like. We can bring that up if we want to then, but let's have a more um articulated conversation.

[01:10:17]>> of street dollars get mentioned there and I want I want to make sure that we're advocating for those dollars that we're talking about right now.

[01:10:23]>> No, absolutely. And it doesn't And it don't only the American advocate, also the commission can advocate as well. So, anyone can advocate. We all have an equal advocacy voice.

[01:10:31]>> Well, yeah, we'll we'll discuss it in detail. Get get a little more uh a little more information for all of us so that we're we're kind of speaking from the same uh book there. So, we will we'll prioritize that for the next meeting for sure. Uh next workshop, excuse me.

[01:10:43]>> Okay.

[01:10:44]>> Anything else we want to kind of hit before we break for the meeting?

[01:10:48]>> Nope.

[01:10:48]>> Mhm.

[01:10:50]>> I appreciate everyone's time.

[01:10:52]Thank you. Yeah, public comment?

[01:10:59]>> Yes, please.

[01:11:03]>> Hello everyone. There's going to be another meeting for the Golden Gym.

[01:11:08]Another workshop, is that what we're talking about?

[01:11:10]>> Yes.

[01:11:11]It's not set yet, but there is going to be one. First >> Okay.

[01:11:14]As I listened, oh, by the way, I'm Maribel Mejia Cien.

[01:11:18]Okay.

[01:11:19]For the engineers of this project, I would like for the second meeting to have a visual, engineer plans, how this is going to look like, maybe a grand UPTV video with the water in the system.

[01:11:33]So, the people that are watching from home, they get an idea of how these funds are going to look and what material are we using. And also, um, I would like to know if this was a sole source contract, um, who are their competitors and who's advocating, um, and negotiating for the city.

[01:11:55]>> Okay.

[01:11:56]>> Thank you. Yes, and I answered the first part, the second meeting for sure will This was just preliminary, so we didn't have the engineer plans yet, but those will definitely be coming and and articulate in a very palpable way that everybody can understand and ask questions as well. Specific to the sole source, how do we find vendors, Mr. Williams or Yes, please. Ms. Sherman >> Yeah, I'll have Ms. Sherman come down.

[01:12:21]>> Tetra Tech is one of our vendors and we did go out through a solicitation is under a continuing services contract.

[01:12:27]>> Okay.

[01:12:28]>> So, they they've done other work for us and it's under contract that was previously bid out.

[01:12:33]>> Yes.

[01:12:33]>> And then that's where we've continued that relationship in that capacity.

[01:12:36]Okay.

[01:12:37]Thank you for that clarity.

[01:12:39]Any other public comments?

[01:12:40]>> Um, I got I got one comment and it's reference to the the infrastructure connection. Is there any way that we can, um, be shown the choke points?

[01:12:53]Not not necessarily today, just backfill that with a an ideal to where we you know, if if if a particular 30-in pipe is choked down to 12 in, like to know where that service area is coming from and what it's affected downstream.

[01:13:10]>> Yeah. Yeah, we can prepare that map.

[01:13:12]>> Thank you.

[01:13:12]>> Okay. Do we bring this for the next meeting maybe?

[01:13:16]>> If you have it, I mean, uh send it to us, please. And then I can we can put it on as either a presentation or something on the meeting itself. Um as as quick as you got it, let's send it out.

[01:13:25]>> Okay.

[01:13:26]Thank you.

[01:13:26]>> I think it's important to know >> I totally agree with you. Absolutely.

[01:13:29]>> Yeah.

[01:13:30]>> Yes.

[01:13:30]>> Thank you.

[01:13:32]>> Mr. McKinnon.

[01:13:34]>> Hubert McKinnon, 3603 Golden Gem Road.

[01:13:36]Some time ago, we entered into negotiation with Orange County for them to take away some of our sanitation requirements. We requested 2 million gallons to be taken by them daily. Did we ever get any progress on that? And if we have or if we haven't, where do we stand in future in terms of beginning to plan now for a new sewage reclamation plant, which is ultimately going to take four or five years, and as my current understanding is it's going to cost at least 125 million dollars when we do that? I would like to know where our future future planning for that lies.

[01:14:11]>> Absolutely. And I don't want to misspeak, so please staff interrupt me if I get this one wrong. Uh from my understanding, we we have had conversations well before I got elected, but in general there were conversations between Orange County and us to take on some of our reclaimed water or sewage, excuse me, sewage. Uh up to 2 million gallons per day. Right now, we're not using any of it. We don't need any of it right now. Uh but it is there. Their facility off of Keene Road, uh to the south of Keene Road, to the east of Apopka, is ready for us whenever we want to. There will be a fee associated with that, and it's in discussions, but it's not needed right now, but it is part of the overarching conversation of our infrastructure. But there's not There's no progress, no contracts in place, no agreements.

[01:14:56]They're not taking any of ours right now, uh and there's no plan in the immediate future, either. But it is there as needed, and from my understanding, uh there's not many other municipalities that can connect to that specific plant, either.

[01:15:09]So, we're kind of the only ones that can use that additional capacity uh from them.

[01:15:13]>> Sound about right?

[01:15:14]>> Yep.

[01:15:15]>> Okay.

[01:15:15]>> I can listen sometimes.

[01:15:18]Any other public comment?

[01:15:20]All right. We will close this up. We will see you back at 7:00 for the uh commission meeting. Thank you.

[01:15:24]>> Thank you.