Burnham Excels At Localism But Falls Flat On Bigger Issues Such As Foreign Policy | Andy Silvester

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]And what I would say about Burnham's essay, thoughtful though it was, it it it's an essay for although it was in the times, it is an essay for the Labour Party, right? You know, notably absent from it, I would say, if he's thinking about auditioning for PM, and this is a fair criticism of of Andy Burnham, is that foreign policy was almost entirely absent.

[00:00:19]>> Let's come back to Andy Sylvester and start talking about the news that we're all reading in the paper today. Let's begin with Andy Burnham's response to Tony Blair. Of course, he's written in The Times, the Greater Manchester Mayor and leadership hopeful has said this government inherited a very different difficult situation in 2024 to the one Blair did in 1997. He's called for sweeping state intervention, saying mainstream politics isn't the answer and blamed the country's issues on deregulation and a failure [snorts] to reverse Thatcher's policies. He's not the only one to have issued a rebuttal. On his substack, the Prime Minister has written an essay defending his plan for the country.

[00:00:57]Although Starmer did admit that mistakes were made in the early days of government, including an overly negative tone.

[00:01:04]Never have so many words, Andy, been spilt in trying to save the Labour Party. Is it getting us anywhere?

[00:01:10]>> Uh is it getting us anywhere? I haven't read this many political essays in one week since university. Um and I'm not sure necessarily that at the current moment, when people look at the state of the world and the state of the economy and have rightly concerns about the direction that Britain is going, um that quite so many words needed to be spilt.

[00:01:30]And I have a feeling the public looking at this, when they're going to work and dealing with a tube strike next week and all of sorts of various things, and still struggling to get a dentist appointment, will wonder about what's going on within the Labour Party.

[00:01:42]I don't think they'll be thanked for the last few weeks. What I would say is it is nice to see, in a world that is dominated by 4-second sound bites, some long-form content that actually gives you something to dig into and gives you some conception of what these people are about. Whether it's the right time, as you alluded to earlier, is an interesting question.

[00:02:06]>> I totally agree with you, actually, cuz I opened the Burnham article thinking, you know, this is great. Let's Let's mock him and, you know, how ludicrous Labour is. And actually, I thought it was a really thoughtful piece. And then I read the Starmer's piece as well. I thought that was pretty In fact, that was the best defense of his government I've read in a long time.

[00:02:22]>> I would completely agree with you.

[00:02:23]Reading the Starmer Substack post, um and surprise to me that he he had a Substack. I I thought was a really well-written, well-argued argument of the last 2 years. And effectively, it said, "Look, strip out the me music, strip out the navel-gazing, look at what we've done."

[00:02:39]And actually, you you take a moment. He does sort of surprise you sometimes with the When I see immigration is down, the economy is, you know, before Iran, it was sort of on the turn. There was some So, actually, maybe he feels that there is a positive message to tell. Um what I would say about Burnham's essay, thoughtful though it was, it it it's an essay for Although it was in The Times, it is an essay for the Labour Party, right? You know, notably absent from it, I would say, if he's thinking about auditioning for PM, and this is a fair criticism of of Andy Burnham, is that foreign policy was almost entirely absent. You know, and it's all very well talking about the success you've had with franchising the bus system and a shopping center in Stockport that's fully let.

[00:03:19]But, I don't know that you can bring all of your energies as a Prime Minister to individual projects like that when at any given moment the US President might tweet. So, I think there is still work to be done as we head into an inevitably >> a good cue for Neil Lawson, who is the director of the think tank Compass and supporter of Andy Burnham. Andy Sylvester there, Neil Lawson, slightly laying down the gauntlet, saying, um it's an article for the Labour Party rather than for the country, particularly as he ignores foreign policy. But, obviously, he's focusing, you know, Tony Blair sort of he challenged Tony Blair by saying Tony Blair never got off the uh road of neoliberalism. And he's sort of refocused his policy agenda on localism, devolution, allowing big cities and other areas to direct their future. Is that a fair assessment?

[00:04:11]>> Well, I think what Andy's laying out is a big argument about the failures of our country over the last 4 years and how do you begin to put those right? And the fundamental point, which I think that Burnham makes, which I think is a beyond a localism, but localism matters, is that unless you have a state in a democracy that enables a long-term consensus to be built up in our country, then you're never going to get the economic fundamentals of the country right for for both state and business to invest securely over the long term. And I think that's the big argument that he's learned from Manchester, fastest growing economy in the country, where he's built a political consensus, you know, and now wants to apply that to the country. And I think that is a big argument, which, you know, could could meet, you know, meet, you know, the very least what Blair did in '97, but but go back to that '79 consensus built by Thatcher and begin to unravel that and move the country into the 21st century.

[00:05:14]>> I guess that I mean, actually, having read all three pieces, there is a way that they could uh unite on common ground. Interventionism uh and state action doesn't preclude a strong economy, but I I would say that the bit missing for me for me was Andy Burnham focusing on growth, economic growth, cuz you can't get growth in Manchester unless you've got a growing economy and the ability to invest.

[00:05:41]>> But I but I think I think that's exactly right, Ed. Um and I and that's why I like the phrase business-friendly socialism. You know, back in the day, you know, '94, '97, that would have been exactly the kind of phrase that Gordon or Tony would have dreamt up to describe their their their third way. And uh clearly, you know, in the world we live in, you've got to work with business, you've got to work with the bond market, you've got to in in you know, create, you know, the the stable environment.

[00:06:08]You know, there was a stable environment back in '97. 60 There was already 60 consecutive quarters of growth. Um you know, and there was a you know, back then there was a reasonably solid two-party system. Now we've got a fragmented party system, we've got, you know, quite a lot of turmoil in markets.

[00:06:24]So therefore, how do you build, you know, out of what is clearly there in our country, a progressive majority into a stable governing progressive, you know, consensus over over time. This is why Burnham is a supporter of proportional representation, because it enables you to put project that progressive majority in the country into an agenda and a House of Commons that can back it over not just one term, but but several. So I think this is a big leap forward for our politics, for our democracy, and hopefully therefore for our economy.

[00:06:58]>> I mean, the other problem Andy Burnham has to a certain extent is he's been out of the national spotlight now for almost a a decade, able to get on with his job in Manchester. But the minute he's now on the national stage, he's doing what all politicians do, which is trimming and rowing back on his policies. I mean, he's had to uh address the trans issue, he's had to address the rejoining the EU issue. I mean, isn't he coming across a bit uh like every other politician, the minute he's now fighting a national It is effectively a national election.

[00:07:26]>> Uh well, I think he's had, you know, it's almost impossible to be trained to become Prime Minister, because there's no job like it. He's been in the cabinet, so he's got close to it, but I think, you know, being a mayor of a combined authority gives you a lot of the skills and the insights to be a successful prime minister But because it is about negotiating and building alliances for change. Clearly, it's different on a regional basis than it is on a national basis, but you learn the kind of instincts and sentiments of that kind of approach to politics. So, I think that's really important. So, I think he's setting himself up well. And and of course, you know, this is pragmatic politics. You've got to plot your plot, weave, navigate your way through lots of tensions um you know, lots of things you've got to manage. I think the art of successful leadership though is to do that, is to be pragmatic, but have a very firm idea on where you're going you know, and have a predominant way of governing the country. I think this is Thatcher ducks and dives quite a lot, but she carried around not just a 5,000 word you know, Tony Blair essay in her pocket, but you know, she didn't do that. But what she did carry around was the road to serfdom by Hayek, a huge tome on you know, how you govern a effectively. I think Burnham's thought through this stuff about rewiring the state, you know, rewiring our democracy, and I think that's the point. Yes, he's going to have to move around certain issues pragmatically, but he's got a lodestar for where you know, for where and how he wants to take the country, and that's the invaluable thing I think about him. Yeah.

[00:08:58]>> Brilliant. Thanks. That's Neal Lawson, the director of the think tank Compass and a strong supporter of Andy Burnham.