Epigenetic Shifts & Legacy Truths with Chad Westport

[00:00:01][music] [music] Welcome back to another Tatting Sadu 420 uh YouTube uh I don't know what to call these in between videos, these interviews, but today I am joined by the Chad Westport. Um, uh, Chad's a friend of of the the KISS channel and has done some work with us and everybody knows Chad. Chad gets along with everybody.

[00:00:35]Chad works with everybody. Um, the nicest guy in the biz. And so, uh, Chad, if you want to brief bio for the one or two people who don't know who you are.

[00:00:48]Um, >> get out of here. Absolutely, Brandon.

[00:00:52]First of all, thank [clears throat] you for having me. I mean, it's fun. We've had many conversations, but today the shoe is on the other foot. So, I get to just sit back and answer some questions and enjoy some enjoy myself. I always enjoy our time together. I'm usually learning. I don't know how much learning you're going to do today, but I'm happy to talk about myself. Um, you know, Chad Westport, uh, just a home grower. I've worked commercially. Uh, I went to school for some of this stuff. Um, I'm into, you know, making seeds. One day I'm going to be a full bonafide breeder.

[00:01:29]Um, because I think there's many steps to get to that level, but I'm on my path. And so my big thing is really cannabis has improved my life. And I know it it's such a powerful thing if you can help someone else improve their life, right? just even one person like, "Wow, that person's better." So, that's always been my goal is like I want to educate people. I focus a lot on home growers. I focus a lot on people who may be looking to this plant for medicinal effects. And one of the big things there is you don't have to smoke it to get benefits from this plant. That's a huge hurdle right there for a lot of the older people. So, just in in a nutshell, like I really want to see people mute their phones when they're on podcasts.

[00:02:21]Um, [laughter] >> mine's ringing at the exact same time.

[00:02:26]So, >> well, it's probably Tad texting both of us like, "Don't forget to mute your phone." No. Um, but yeah, I I you know, I just want to I want I want to see people live a better, happier life because they're going to be a better and happier person. and the more better and happier people we have. Oh my gosh, what a great place to be. So, yeah, I try to educate people to grow their own at home.

[00:02:48]>> We appreciate you. Yeah. Yeah, we do.

[00:02:50]Um, you've got a a ton of content and and a lot of a lot of gold nuggets in in those. So, we appreciate you out in the community. Um, I think a lot of people who know you know that you you know, you mentioned it. You've got a degree in sustainable a um farm.

[00:03:10]>> Yeah, sustainable egg and small farm systems.

[00:03:14]>> Okay.

[00:03:14]>> Um and then you do you do your podcast.

[00:03:18]You come hang out with us uh second Tuesday of of every month for the Kiss Lives. Um you used to be on uh Future Cannabis.

[00:03:28]>> Yeah.

[00:03:29]>> All the time until unfortunately that that craziness happened. Um, but I do I think you've got them. Uh, >> don't you I think I saw on one of your videos that you had a lot of those backed up and uh >> I do. Yeah. A lot a lot of the ones that I was involved with I backed up. Um, unfortunately, you know, FCP, the Future Cannabis Project, had been going for, you know, years before I got there and there were many other awesome shows on there that it's such a sad loss of knowledge because Peter really made a big focus on speaking to the right people and that meant a lot of like scientists, doctors, lawyers, like people whose answer you could really go on. So, yeah, a lot of that knowledge is is unfortunately lost. That's that's that's a bummer. That's that's horrible.

[00:04:19]Yeah. Um >> Yeah.

[00:04:21]>> But to to switch over to something fun, um I just, you know, because a lot of people do, you know, they see you, they see you on YouTube, they you know, um I would, you know, I'd kind of like to get into the early Chad years. Um as far as like >> when did you you know, like I didn't you and Tad play on the same baseball, soccer team, something like that?

[00:04:45]>> We did. So, how that how we kind of reconnected and came back to kiss is.

[00:04:50]Yeah. So, we played little league together. Um I think we were like it was like the 11 and 12 year old team. Uh the majors I think it was. But anyways, we lived near the same place. Our houses were kind of near each other. We went to the same school. He was a few years ahead of me. But yeah, we we played baseball and I remember, you know, his dad and the nursery and, you know, like we as a family went down there and got plants from the nursery and, you know, put them in our yard. So, >> I was familiar with them. And then fast forward like 20s something years, 25 at least, and the hat you're wearing, Tad was doing a video on Mammoth P and how long or shelf stable a lot of the live components of it were. And I had just gotten a free sample bottle of Mammoth PE for my growth store. So I was like, "Oh, I'm going to watch this video." And I clicked it. I'm like, "That's tad."

[00:05:44]Like the guy doesn't age. He still looks the same, right? So I was like, "Dude, that is Tad." And I just reached out to him and he kind of was like, "Yeah, I was on that team." And then the rest is history.

[00:05:56]>> Funny. Too funny. Um, well, so as a as a young person, did you you know, were were you smoking early? Did you smoke in high school? Did you when did like how did Herb come into your circle? Was it through friends? Was it you know? It it was it was definitely through friends. Um, you know, I hung out with a lot of the older kids. I was a skateboarder, so I hung out with a lot of, you know, just the skaters who happened to be older. Um, you know, some would call us the drigs of society back then. So, we hung out with the bad kids, too, who come to find out aren't really that bad. Um, but yeah, I was in junior high. So, >> okay.

[00:06:39]>> There was this guy Brian. Brian and Larry. Sher. Brian was a little older than me. Larry was his older brother, but they like smoked cigarettes and they they smoked weed and that was kind of like my first introduction to it, like my first knowledge of it. Um, and then yeah, it was just kind of like a a little casual thing here and there and then as I kind of progressed like 8th, ninth grade, I was into it more. I I didn't know it was medicinal for me at that time, but it was. It took it took a few years of being like really analyzing it versus just doing something. You know, this is before it really had names. So, it was just like, "Yeah, I'm smoking pot. Woohoo. Let's go skateboard."

[00:07:25]>> Yeah.

[00:07:26]>> That's cool. That's cool.

[00:07:28]>> Um, and you just mentioned there weren't there weren't really names, you know, we were just smoking weed, you know, whatever whatever we were lucky enough to get hold of.

[00:07:39]>> It was called Got Some or Don't Got Some. I got some. Yeah. Yeah. And who's got some? And uh >> Yeah. There you go.

[00:07:46]>> Yeah. Um what are some of the you know are there what's [clears throat] like the first kind of known cult of ours that that you bumped into? Do you remember the where when and where or what what they were?

[00:08:00]>> I do. I do. It was around the mid 90s and it was really when Cypress Hill, you know, like hits from the bong, all of that was blowing up. And so really the first few names I remember were the the ATF. So the Alaskan [ __ ] um uh oh gosh, the Kalishnikov, AK-47. Wow. How can you blank that? Right. Right. Um, but yeah, if AK-47 and then there was like, you know, chronic, which was just like a catch-all word. But I I'm not necessarily positive those are what they were or if those were just the names that the guy heard on the Cypress Hill album, like, yo, I got that ATF, man. But it was good stuff. But those were really the first names I remember. And then it was kind of late 90s when things started really actually having names.

[00:08:53]>> Okay, I've got to get So the uh a guy reached out to me through KISS and he had been helping a friend clean out the the grandfather had passed away and he was helping his friend clean out the grandfather's house and they found a film canister with seeds in it and it had a piece of tape on it and it said 77 ATF and he sent me a bunch of seeds. So, I've got them. I'll have to send you some flour and some pics. You know, I don't I don't know if you would have seen the plants, but I could send you some flour.

[00:09:26]>> Oh.

[00:09:26]>> Um I had a one of my aunts dated a guy who had a plug on that in the 70s. And so, I want to get him I want to find him and and get that to to him and see what he thinks because he would definitely be able to say yes or no.

[00:09:41]>> Um but yeah, that's cool. That's exciting. Do you um over the years what slipped through your hands? What what cuts? You know, for me it's juicy fruit um real real tail skunk and then I had a um I had a garlic >> um that was better than any GMO I've ever ever seen.

[00:10:06]>> Oh wow.

[00:10:06]>> And and I would love to get those back.

[00:10:08]What what has slipped through your hands and what would you like to get back?

[00:10:12][clears throat] I mean, so well, one, we'll start with the second part. One that I actually did just get back recently, and I'm curing it right now for the first time was the Blue Dream. It was the Santa Cruz Blue Dream. Uh, you know, vetted and verified back to 2010. So, and just the way it grew, the way it looks, the way it smells, I'm like, "Yes." So, that's actually one thing that got away that I just got back. Um, but as far as like things that I've personally lost, I never really had much. Uh, I didn't have a big network. I was always kind of like the lone wolf person, you know, because I was doing my things and if I was ever going to get tripped up or get into trouble, like it better have been because me. like I didn't didn't uh let anybody know what I did just because loose lip sink ships. I have this like very rigid mindset. It's like if you tell a person then something can happen. But if you don't tell anybody, it's not going to happen, right? And it's I'm weirdly like die hard about that with certain things.

[00:11:32]It's like, dude, if you don't do it, there's no [ __ ] possibility. You don't have to lose sleep. You don't have to do nothing. So, >> I didn't have Yeah, I didn't have any, you know, quality cuts. But >> in the 90s, I wasn't growing. Um, you know, again, skateboarding and then going into music, I had plenty of people around me who were that person, you know. So, Rogue Kill Skunk, that was one of them where I wish I was aware at the time and I would have been like, "Hey, man, can I have a cut of that?" I probably didn't even know what the word cut was at the time. I don't think I did.

[00:12:07]>> Right.

[00:12:08]>> But, um, there there [snorts] have been So, yeah, cuts. No, but there have been a few seeds that I've popped that got away from me. Um, one was called like Gorilla Diesel Glue. Um, it was from a European country. The name had absolutely no relation to what the genetics actually were. And I kind of knew that going into it, right?

[00:12:29]>> But, uh, I I grew it. It grew a little tall. There was long inner nodal spacing.

[00:12:35]Uh, and I didn't really like the way it grew. And then couple weeks before I finished flowering it, I was just like, "Oh my god, that thing is amazing." I didn't think to rebge it. Popped more seeds of it, never got it back. So, I have lost some things. I' I've learned the hard way that before I let something go, I want to give it two, three rounds because I definitely I' I've had I've got a a a Kim Cross from a friend in San Diego that um well, he won't he won't watch this anyway, but I thought it was horrible the first round. I was like he was raving about how great it was, thinking Kusty, you know, but he was right, man.

[00:13:18]>> [laughter] >> in the second round. It was just so operator error. I did something wrong on the first round, but the second round when that u really came alive, I was like, "Oh, thank God I didn't get rid of this. This is so good." You know? So, >> well, it it it's like scarred me for life now because now I always overclone.

[00:13:40]Like, I take two clones of everything I pop and then all of a sudden I have like two. I'm like, "Well, I've got two. I don't want to throw one away." And then it just keeps building and building. So yeah, I I kind of cursed myself in that sense, but hey, I haven't lost a cut since, >> right? I need a bigger boat. I That's I need a bigger I need a bigger boat. I' I'm I'd love I'd love to have a football field, you know, six stack it up with with cuts, you know. Um it' be awesome.

[00:14:07]So that is >> that's a good segue into >> tissue culture because aren't you doing something with tissue culture?

[00:14:17]>> Are you are you >> I'm learning it. Yep. I'm I'm learning about tissue culture. Uh which is fun again because it's something new that you can apply all of like your past effort and you know terminology that you're aware of into something new and keep me excited. It's always fun to One thing about growing is you're never going to know it all. Obviously, even if you know everything right now, >> we know that we don't know everything.

[00:14:41]So, that always that always leaves room.

[00:14:44]But, uh to to be fresh in it again, but to also have that experience to know how to connect the dots. It's not like looking at a foreign language. I'm like, "Ah, cool. I get it." But the further I get into it, the less reliable it's actually looking to be. And there's a variety of reasons. One of which is, you know, we're still trying to figure out the proper media. We're still trying to figure out the proper nutrients that we put in there. We're realizing that, hey, sometimes when you strip all the pathogens from something, it doesn't have the same expression because it was operating under that. We also realized once you, you know, clean it of a lot of things, it comes back out. It's kind of a wuss. Um, so susceptible to things.

[00:15:27]But the biggest thing which is why I don't think it's necessarily caught on yet and where I'm just like this isn't going to be as you know cut and dry as I had hoped for [snorts] is just the fact that the oxins and the cytoins um a different ratio it will genetically alter your plant. And so there was uh Umami Seeds. He did an awesome tissue culture panel at the MJ Biscon. And I was like teacher's pet sitting there by the side raising my hand asking all the questions. And he's like, "Yeah, you know, I had a um I don't know if it was Juicy Fruit, but it was one of those ones that came from like up Vancouver area, totally famous."

[00:16:10]And he's like, "It's purple. Always been purple. Everything you do, it's always purple. I put it in here. I use this mixture. It's now green.

[00:16:18]>> I don't know what I did. And I hear other stories of people's expressions changing, but the whole reason we're trying to do this tissue culture is to preserve exactly what we had. So, yeah, I'm getting into it, but it doesn't look as simple. Follow the procedure and you get this as I thought it would be. Ted did an interview, one of his podcasts recently with somebody, these guys who were doing um it's not cannabis, it was walnuts, but they were doing culture and they were seeing some I can't remember what the number was, but like >> some insanely like way outside of any kind of statistical prediction uh some insane high number of mutations for a variety of those things that you just mentioned. So that yeah that that's that's interesting to hear. Um >> and and what is the trigger that's so I mean tissue culture in general is obviously an established industry.

[00:17:19]That's how a lot of plants circulate the globe. So there are proced >> market is um >> is is built on that right now. You know, that's that's kind of what tanked a lot of their um you know, like during COVID, people got into plants. [laughter] >> Yes, it is.

[00:17:38]>> And house plants and they started buying variegated monsteras and paying $1,000 for them and stuff. And um variegated plants can be a little harder because you got to get the right piece to get the variegation. But with most of the aeroids and stuff, they just started tissue, you know, culture and all of a sudden prices just, you know, just collapsed. And um but yeah, I I'm I'm finding the same thing and the research is showing the same thing that this is not the silver bullet that we had hoped it was. Um it's another tool. It's another resource. It's another thing that we can do and and learn about. And so I I like it. And like you said, it's something that um I like how you said that it's not a foreign language, but you're learning new stuff and and I think that's really cool. Yeah, I like that.

[00:18:29]>> Yeah, >> it's you mentioned variegation, too. And just real quick, one thing that supported that from my recent personal experience is Clone X gel. You can't get in Washington State anymore. I don't know why. It's it's a weird thing, but anyway. So, and I don't usually use rooting gel, but I was having a hard time rooting something. So, I ordered uh it's IBA, which is one of the minerals or nutrients, oxidants, cycles, whatever it is, uh that you use when you're doing tissue culture. And one of the plants that I dipped, I think it was actually the no joke. Um, anyways, I could be wrong. One of the things that I dipped when it cloned out, one of the leaves that grew was variegated. You know, it was one of those almost like Chem is like green on this side, yellow or white or whatever you want to call it on this side. I'm like, I have grown this exact plant a handful of times, never seen it.

[00:19:23]Only difference I put it in that IBA.

[00:19:26]>> Interesting.

[00:19:26]>> I'm like, is this all connected? So, yeah, sorry to derail there, but I wanted to throw that in because, you know, book knowledge is great. It's essential, but actual experience kind of trumps it all. Yeah. Who hits the road?

[00:19:41]There's so many things that like >> Yeah.

[00:19:43]>> Um at the bench work that >> Yes.

[00:19:48]>> field do not. And um you know, so it's it's good to have the combination. You know, I like to have the academic side.

[00:19:56]I'm grateful for that side, the chemistry side.

[00:19:59]>> Yeah.

[00:20:00]>> Because it helps me hold these concepts together. But I'm I'm I'll take my four decades of experience over the academic side any day because I can look at a plant and know what I need to do. And that's that's invaluable >> to to me. To me, they're both essential because if you, you know, they're both great, but if you have them both, you're in the best position because like the the scholar is going to learn the new techniques. They're going to learn the new information. They're going to have that. Whereas the the, you know, experienced grower, and we all know this person, they've grown great, but they got stuck in their ways, and they still grow good, but it's like 20 years ago, technology, they could be doing much better if they just adapt. So if you can merge those two because there's definitely things you're not going to read in a book or there's things that look good on paper that are just like you kidding me? So yeah.

[00:20:55]>> Yeah. I I don't think I don't care what your passion, hobby, profession, whatever. You can't rest on your laurels. You have to keep learning, >> you know. Um >> I think that's why we've got so much bro science. Part of why we've got so much, you know, it's like I don't want to learn anything new. I've talked to so many people. They're like, I just don't want to learn anything else. And um that's cool, but you know, like you said, there's so much that we know we don't know. We'll continue to get better at providing guard rails. And as we get better and better at that, you know, the better control we'll have over the outcome of our plant, which is in our best interest, you know, and um >> for for the curious minded, it's a it's an infinitely fascinating game. I think you just mentioned no joke. Uh, I would be I would be remiss if I didn't uh give you the the clap on the no joke because I'm here in the Pacific Northwest. And if if anybody's got a a problem running plants outside, >> get in touch with Chad and and and see if you can't get some of those seeds or or cuts or I don't know how how those come from you, but you know, I know I've gotten seeds from you. I don't know if you do cuts, but um >> Yeah.

[00:22:09]>> Yeah. So get in touch with him because that that plant blew my mind. I I had probably >> Thank you. 80 cultivars and um I had most of them in a greenhouse that I had huge like 38 or 36 inch fans and ability to you know even in this fogged out island keep it pretty [laughter] and uh I lost everything except the no jokes that were outside in the rain in the fog surrounded by squash that look like the leaves looked like um paper plates just covered in powder.

[00:22:48]>> Go ahead.

[00:22:49]>> You know, >> yeah, >> you know that powdery mildew is very species specific and so maybe it was the PM that but I also had PM on my chindula and PM on my comfrey and oh wow >> no joke just kept on keeping on and so I I do props there. Um any new breeding projects you're working on? Anything else people need to know about?

[00:23:18]>> Yeah, and a you know, first, thank you for growing that one. And b, you know, thank you for growing it outside here in the Pacific Northwest. You have a higher like tolerance to pain than I do because I don't grow out here well on the coast in the Pacific Northwest because everything looks beautiful until late August. And as you said, that's when that fog layer comes in and it just sits. So prepare yourself for disappointment, people. But I'm I'm so thank you for growing that. U But yeah, I do have some >> I feel like I'm a good test market for basillus species and cultivars. It's it's pretty rough.

[00:23:58]>> But go on, >> dude. That's what good testing actually requires. That's how you find things out about plants and genetics and hopefully work forward with them. And we could come back to PM resistance and leaf patterns in a minute if you like, but um yeah, new stuff. So, one thing I'm going to put out here um probably mid July uh is this thing called Mean Muffin. Um it's the beginning of a project that I wanted to pursue, but with the way things are in November, just kind of is what it is, man. Um, I'm too old for this [ __ ] so I'm not playing around.

[00:24:38]But this this has been tested about that. I I I shut down my seeds. I I just said, you know, I'm I'm just there's no point in me continuing to try to build this because I'm too >> Right.

[00:24:53]>> Yeah. I moved halfway across the planet to not stress about it. I'm not going to stress about it. But it's really a bummer. It's a really unfortunate thing.

[00:25:03]And I don't know if we'll see people transitioning back to Europe or Canada and how that all works. I don't know what we're going to see happen for like >> I think about big breeders, you know, I'm a pollen chucker. I think about big heavy duty breeders and what they're going to do.

[00:25:19]>> They're in Europe. They're all in Europe. They're all they've all been going there for years. Um you know, the big companies over there have all partnered with them. Um they've got their lines like Yeah. you know, the the names, you know, are all in the EU now, and that's a very fertile and young market, so there's a lot to be done, but I'm just not that uh expansive.

[00:25:41]>> Yeah.

[00:25:42]>> So, yeah, that that does suck. I'm just going to write it till, you know, the day and then I'll, you know, probably put up a sign like we'll be back.

[00:25:51]Probably just saying, you know, like we'll be back with the next administration. We'll see. Right.

[00:25:56]>> So, that's I'm I'm not going away. It's actually going to give me time to not focus but continue to working on things like you know >> it's so hard >> I'm very happy >> much space and time to really work a lot >> yeah it is and like so this mean muffin is it's the humbult seed company's blueberry muffin pollinated with a plant that is two crosses from mean gene or freeborn selections it's his lime and the cherry limeade F5 which are both kind of staple strains that he uses cultivars uh that he uses in a lot of his other lines. So those together pollinated the blueberry muffin and for me that is normally just like the first step of what I wanted to do. The reason those two got together really love the expression and the effects from, you know, the mean gene is easier to say than lime one cross with the cherry lime at F5. So the gene um but the flowering time was way too long for me. Uh that blueberry muffin, I like the structure of it. It's a short bushy plant. It produces well. The profile is freaking awesome, but it also has the shortest flowering time out of anything I've known. And the two, if you look at like the family trees, they're very unrelated, which is an important aspect when trying to put things together. So, I put the two together in the hopes of kind of retaining some of the effects and the profile of the mean gene while shortening its flower time. That is the mean muffin. Usually I would then select from this, put it together again, and then put something out, but that's not going to happen by November. So yeah, Mean Muffin probably coming out middle of uh July next month. That's what the cross is. Um I have a video of growing it out. I've had testers, 50 different packs went out. They've all grown it out. So it is properly tested. Um that'll be July. And then my like my big hurrah which unfortunately won't have the time to get tested but it's all of my staples so I'm generally not worried about it. Although I still would test it in a perfect world anyways but it probably about September. So I'm taking all my keepers right. So I have chud which was uh a regular thing grows freaking baby arms. I used an Afghani number one. It's a old censey seed stock that just adds bulk to anything. You know, back when everybody was like cropping, you know, the 90s like profile. Don't care about that. What did it weigh? So, it adds bulk to everything. [laughter] Cross that with the Westport grape juice. That's the chud does great indoors, outdoors. Um, so what I did is I just went through uh I popped 10 of those. I use Farmer Freeman. I got my sex tests. I know which ones are the males. I'm able to kind of look at them and evaluate them as they're growing to be like, "Okay, I'm going to use you because I'm not going to do open pollination. I want people to be continue to work my stuff and just having a narrower field >> versus using a whole bunch of males.

[00:29:19]>> So, I'm using the male uh chud, which again is great because it will produce regular seeds so everybody can then breed with it in the future. But I'm crossing it to my Westport grape juice.

[00:29:30]I'm crossing it to the Kool-Aid Man.

[00:29:32]Those two are what make The No Joke. So, those two are getting crossed with it.

[00:29:36]The No Joke. My Keeper Cut is getting crossed to it. The Santa Cruz Blue Dream is getting crossed to it. And then I have a couple other people's works in there that are going to get pollinated, but those will be freebies. But yeah, in September, I'm just coming out with the pack of like Oh, and I'm Chud F2, so that's in there. Um, but I'm basically just gonna come out with like a box set of all my keepers and be like, "Here guys, continue the work. Spread the work around." Like, >> create your own adventure with some solid stuff.

[00:30:09]>> That's cool. That's That's really cool.

[00:30:11]I'm glad you're getting at least a chance to get those out there to where, you know, because that's one of the biggest things for smaller people is the fear that the beans just get parked and they just never get worked. And, you know, there's there's a there's a mountain out here that I like to hike.

[00:30:31]And last time I went out there, there was a huge like mother tree that had fallen down and made a huge open scar on a mountain.

[00:30:44]>> Okay.

[00:30:44]>> I I've got garbage bags of seeds. And I was like, what if I create the the Washington land race? I just go throw all these thousands and hundreds of thousands of seeds out on this scar and yep, >> you know, 10 years later, we'll have the the Washington the Washington land race completely >> let's hope brother >> completely you know beats beats PM to death you know um you know be interesting um you you mentioned a couple of things I thought were interesting in talking about breeding um you talked about some of the attributes you're looking for each cultivar and then some of the things you're looking for from a male are you you know usually What spurs me is I'll have something where I love the tarpine profile, but it's just too long or I structure the node spacing's too long, you know? And so that's that's kind of like my incentive usually to to try to put stuff together. Um, when you're looking at males, are you looking primarily at structure? You know, we all do this the stem rubs, but are you prim looking for structure? What are you looking for on your males?

[00:32:02]>> Yeah, I mean ultimately the best way to judge a male is to put it against three or four things you're intimately familiar with. Run those offspring and see, okay, the mom retained that, the mom retained that, mom retained that.

[00:32:15]But in all of them, it has this thing that the sister or the dad had. That's the best way to choose a male. But not many people do it. Uh it takes a lot of time. This example is or what I'm doing right now is a perfect example. I don't have the time to do that. So, yeah, a lot of what I go off of when looking at males is structure. I my goal is short, bushy plants that are going to be great in a tent and produce with a minimal, you know, height because I've run out of height so many times in my tents, I can't even Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:50]>> So, that's what I look for.

[00:32:53]>> No long flower in the tent. It's It's a It's a That's a rough exercise. Um, tent tents are hard, you know, because you got you want to stay off the walls, >> but you want to grow as big a plant as you can, and it's it's it's tough to do.

[00:33:08]So, yeah, it's cool. That's uh that's >> off off the walls. Never heard of her.

[00:33:15]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:16]>> Yeah. Never heard of her, dude. That is that is one thing that I learned, you know, commercially is just how tightly you can actually pack these plants. Like I there are so many epiphany moments from working commercially where I'm just like you're not supposed to do that.

[00:33:34]Well, you did and hey, it turned out all right. You have to mitigate things, but you can really get away with a lot. So, yeah, my walls are covered in tricoms on all my tents.

[00:33:46]>> Funny. Oh, that's funny. Um, yeah, there's there are lots of things that we can that we can get away with, you know.

[00:33:54]Um, I'm I'm always because I do so much consulting, I'm always trying to do like what's the optimal >> safest thing to do because I >> Yes.

[00:34:06]>> I worry when I'm giving advice to people, you know, take it to heart and I'm I'm I'm I don't want to set somebody up for failure. I want to set them up for success. I'm hoping that my, you know, I I had a guy challenge me um not too long ago, you know, he was like, "Well, you don't have a PhD. You know, who are you to talk to me?" And I'm like, "Well, I've got I've got 40 years of killing plants."

[00:34:33]>> Totally. You know, I've been killing plants for 40 years. What were you doing? You know, and so um you know, it's just funny to me. Um, you do a lot of kind of community journalism like you work with what magazine. Um, see >> um >> Yep.

[00:34:57]>> Is that something?

[00:34:59]>> Yeah. How did that start? You know, how how did you >> was that?

[00:35:06]>> Well, the >> freelance is it like, you know, how did that how did that start? because I think >> Yeah. I mean, >> oh, sorry. Go ahead.

[00:35:13]>> I just think it's cool that you know that you're you're doing that journalism side. Uh because I love the um I love the lore, >> but I like >> I'd rather have the most accurate information and think that >> even though this thing's been going on for so long, there's a there's a big need to kind of document what's going on. And so I'm grateful for the folks that do the journalism.

[00:35:42]>> Thank you. Thank you, man. It's fun. I mean, for many years, that's what that was my job. Like that's what paid the bills, you know, that's what allowed me to do a lot of the internet stuff and a lot of the work is doing the writing.

[00:35:56]And it it started with Censey Seeds. And that just came about for me going to Amsterdam. Um that's a place where me and my wife, we try to go once a year.

[00:36:07]Um, we love the Netherlands. We're both Dutch, so we have We don't have family family there, but family is from there.

[00:36:15]>> Um, and you know, Censey Seeds was always just like the mecca to me. Like, you know, always wanted to go there, knew about them because they were one of the first, right, >> like seed places that I was aware of.

[00:36:28]So, they were the coolest. They were always the ones in the high times, right?

[00:36:32]>> And I I don't want to break. I want to interject just for a second because for a lot of younger people who might watch this, you have to remember that you couldn't get seeds. You know, you could maybe order them through cannabis culture like Mark Emory in the 90s >> Vancouver. If you knew somebody that went to Europe, you could maybe get, you know, like I had a friend send me back inside of some str waffles. um they taken them apart and put the seeds in them and mailed it to me that way.

[00:37:05]>> Wow.

[00:37:05]>> You know, and so it was hard.

[00:37:08]>> And so a lot of people did make a Mecca >> to or a pilgrimage to the Mecca of Amsterdam solely to to get genetics that were oftent times much better than the the you otherwise brick sources of who knows what you're getting and what's going to come out of that. So, I'm sorry. I just want to say that because I I do think it's gonna realize it wasn't as simple as just, you know, as >> Yeah.

[00:37:36]>> jumping on the internet and >> and we've like how could you get it? Who are you going to have them sent to?

[00:37:42]Because not your house.

[00:37:43]>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:37:46]>> Always wound up getting them sent to work. [laughter] They were jobs. I would have been like, I'd rather have the seats than the job if anything happened.

[00:37:54]But, uh, >> I'd rather get than arrested.

[00:37:58]Exactly. Exactly. Like we we've come a long way though. Um but I was I there's a few different centy seed, excuse me, a few different centy seed locations and shops in Amsterdam itself. And uh we went to the one which is closest to the train station. It's on what was called the old green mile because that's where all the coffee shops and the tourists would be. Greenhouse had the restaurant and stuff down there. Um but so we went to that location and you know I just walked in and was like wow you know look at these genetics on the wall just you know the atmosphere.

[00:38:36]>> Yeah >> started talking to the dude and actually it's funny we were talking >> pre-ispo there no Yeah. No place you could go talk about we hang out or any of that kind of stuff. You couldn't even talk about it in a head shop. You'd get kicked out.

[00:38:49]>> No water pipe. If you did if you said bong you were kicked out. It was a water pipe. So yeah, grow store it was tomatoes back when he used to think 20 2020 was the right MPK for everything.

[00:39:01]>> I was like, dude, just get the Miracle Grow 2020.

[00:39:03]>> Run it, bro. [laughter] >> For real.

[00:39:06]>> Yeah. You want you want your word weed to spark. [laughter] If you want your weed to throw sparks, do the 2020 2020 circle.

[00:39:16]Um, but I walked into this NC Seeds and it was kind of a small shop and funny enough, we were talking earlier about hat sizes and dreads. The person who I referenced was that person and we just started having a conversation about seeds and genetics and CBD. And we both enjoyed that we could have this conversation like an educated back and forth between two different sides of the cannabis world. And one of it was funny, one of the stories I asked him, I was like, "So, what's one of the weirder things that you've had happen?" And he wasn't very big on French tourists. Um, he always thought a they were a little bit rude. But, uh, one of one of them came in one day and you know, hemp seeds are a food product and all around, you know, the world, Europe in particular, there's a lot of benefits to it. But anyways, what a French guy came in and he thought because they were expensive, they were just like magical protein or something. He's like, I watched a guy buy $500 of seeds, take them out, and pop them in his mouth.

[00:40:19]>> That's the weirdest thing I've ever seen there. So, we enjoyed those stories, too. But, um, >> yeah, I was like, "Are you kidding?" I'm like, "What did you do?" He's like, "I smiled. [laughter] tell him you need two of those a day is what you're telling.

[00:40:36]>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. I was like, "God, that's the weirdest thing I've ever heard." But uh so we we kind of bonded and we stayed in touch and it was maybe like eight months later he's like, "Hey, he's the social media manager and uh kind of content manager for Censey Seeds now." And he's like, "Bro, you we had great conversations. You ever think of writing?" And so that's how I started writing for Censey Seeds. And I primarily did their like strain descriptions, their grow reports, and like press releases, which were fun because I knew months and months ahead of all these collaborations that are now announced and people are doing, but I just like had to sit on that. And so that was always fun because again, I knew like what next year's releases already were. I've got the pictures because he organized the grow team as well. So they would send me all the data, they would send me the pictures. I just had to put it together into into an article. Um, and so doing that and then I also did some blog posts for them just you know your favorite turppines or this type of thing. ILGM saw that they're like, "Bro, we want you to write for us." And so, okay, started writing for them. And then that kind of snowballed and I started getting other writing jobs. But that's how I got into the journalism aspect was just a trip, a conversation, and a good connection.

[00:42:03]>> That's too cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I've seen your um I guess it was Cincy your turp your turpp blogs where you talk about cultivars with different tping profiles and stuff. Yeah, those were cool.

[00:42:16]>> Um yeah, that's neat, man. Um >> you do a lot of reviewing of products >> and you know and I know you work with lighting companies and and different things. You helped me get a light for my brother who is uh >> nice still using it to kill clones. Um but uh [laughter] >> hey try and try again.

[00:42:40]>> Yep. And um yeah, I thought it was funny on the when he came on the live, he was like, "Oh, I can do that. I can kill clones. That's something I can do." And >> are there any um anything in the past, I don't know, 12 months that you went, "Oh, wow. This is something because Tad and I talk about it a lot because I I think it's good like he and I will end up on different opinions on a lot of things and I think that it's good makes us a good team because we kind of can do the pros and cons of stuff but >> yeah certain things that we're like silica you know we're both yeah got to do I gotta do silica you know I'll come I'll come talk to you on Saturday about silica and if you don't have time brochures you know like it's it's something I feel like every grower should do. But are is there something is are there anything that you've reviewed in the past year or so that you were like I I'm going to use this every round now. This made my life better.

[00:43:40]Ye yes there is. Um but I like preface it with budget. Like I am in a blessed position that companies want me to try their products. So it's different paying the money versus getting a product. So I will preface it that way. But the Vcure and and it to rewind I guess growing this plant is simple. You don't need a lot of things.

[00:44:12]You don't need a bunch of fancy gadgets.

[00:44:14]I my first grow like in a closet CFL bulbs on a splitter. Uh I didn't have exhaust fans. I pulled an over a one ounce cola off one of them. So it can be done. So there's a lot of people and this doing my writing for >> fluorescent like first indoor grow is flu fluorescent in a like a moving box lined with aluminum foil.

[00:44:40]>> Yes.

[00:44:41]>> Yes. There you go.

[00:44:42]>> It was great.

[00:44:44]>> And and you will still get a harvest off of it. And for some people that's the only access to the plant they can get.

[00:44:51]that's the only materials they can get.

[00:44:53]Maybe they're in, you know, Serbia or wherever. So, doing all the international writing, that's one thing I do have to keep in mind is, you know, dude, you can't Amazon a growite to your house in a place where like Japan where you still get like the death penalty.

[00:45:08]So, you want to be a little more ninja.

[00:45:11]So I I I will rewind to say that a lot of these things you don't need, but there are many things that can make it better and more enjoyable. And the Vcure uh for Vivos Sun, it's like the Canrol.

[00:45:24]It's it's a dry cure storage m machine.

[00:45:28]Um it's expensive, but I've used it. And I'm using it again right now and I probably will use it every run because it it's able to control those parameters very tightly to where you know as the home grower I was drying in a bathroom uh just hanging it in the extra shower had a fan in the bottom so scoop it up.

[00:45:51]I have no complaints but this is a much more controlled and precise way of doing it and the re the results have spoken.

[00:46:00]So yeah, that's something in the last year that I'm like, damn, I'm going to use that every time.

[00:46:05]>> So I'm I'm doing a trial on some Kaix cure bags and >> okay, >> I have to say like I'm not sensitive enough as a instrument to say, oh, tarpen were better or worse or anything, >> right?

[00:46:18]>> Honest opinion is that it's pretty much the same identical outcome as burping, like traditional burping, but I didn't have to do anything. And that alone I was like, Tad, get me a bunch of those bags, you know. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:46:33]>> But then with the the VCure, I'm I'm curious about a couple of things because I just did a like kind of in-depth dry cure video and >> Okay.

[00:46:42]>> One of the things that uh in researching for that, I came across a couple of different articles. Um one with uh Dr. Allison Justice and Dr. for Bruce Bugby and they were saying that like a 10 to 14 day like 7 to 14 with 10 kind of being optimal for your dry phase dry cure >> was where they saw optimal turppines before that you know before 10 days you were losing turpps and losing weight after that you were putting yourself you know to get to that 0.6 six water activity metric and they were saying if you went longer than that you were at risk for fungal pathogen and that makes sense to me. Um, but with something like a canatrol, um, where there's only a 4-day dry phase, >> I worry that there's not enough time to for conversion. But the folks I know that have Canrol and like them say that they get better turppines. And then a buddy of mine, >> uh, Adam Humble Skunk, he has been playing around with a freeze dryer and he's showing me COAs where his turppines are just going up up up with the freeze dryer and that's instant. So there's no conversion. And so it's really interesting and so it just illustrates that we got a lot more work to do because we don't know these things that you know these these things that we thought we understood you know tricom you know you know when when's a plant ripe well ripe for what you know like it it's just infinitely complex so it's really interesting how long is the dry phase of the vcure or is that up to you said it >> you can do a few different ways Um, so the the two pre-programmed ways, there's a quick dry and a craft cycle. Both so the quick dry is 4-day dry, 4day cure.

[00:48:41]Um, eight days sounds pretty fast. Dry in four days. I was like, you know, I like to, you know, f around and find out. So I that's the first thing I did with it. I'm like, I'm gonna do the quick dry because that's what most people probably would do. I was happy with it. I do think the craft cycle might have more potential, but I was like, "This isn't bad. There's no hay."

[00:49:02]Like, I'm not turning my nose up at the jar at all. So, that's that was very encouraging to me. The craft cycle is 14 days, but I believe it does a fiveday dry and a 9-day cure. Um, which so four and five, there's not a huge difference there, >> but there's also a custom, so you can set it to whatever parameters you want.

[00:49:24]Um, I've thought about doing a true 7-day dry, seven-day cure, but there's also a lot of new research coming out.

[00:49:33]And I I love that you said like we're still learning. We don't know because yeah, there's so many mechanisms as far as like, okay, if you're looking at, you know, the the tricom head, you're well, I pull at this color. Okay. How much more does that mature after you've cut it? Do we should we have an answer for that?

[00:49:50]>> I don't know if that's actually conversion. It might just be enzyatic browning. That's how little we >> Yeah. Right.

[00:49:56]>> No.

[00:49:58]>> Yeah. So there there's a lot of little things that we don't necessarily know how to I don't know to to put an answer to it.

[00:50:07]So the the new research that seems to be coming out is you know 60 is like always been the standard industry standard.

[00:50:13]Follow that you'll be fine. But now they're saying, well, if you dry a little bit higher and lower humidity just for like a day or two and then bring it back, you preserve more. But yeah, the research is out, but there is more >> more attention being paid to it at this point, right? Because that's a bottom line for a lot of companies. So there's a profit motive and then comes the research.

[00:50:42]>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Um any any other cool gadgets, toys, anything that you that like using?

[00:50:51]>> Um there there's Yeah, there's a there's some things that I'll mention here, but you you hit the nail on the head for me earlier, too, is that you said you didn't really notice a difference between some of these things. 90% of the things I try whether it's like um a nutrient a light something whatever I generally cannot tell the freaking difference >> right >> majority overwhelming majority of the time I'm like maybe it did maybe it didn't u but do whatever makes you feel good right >> if I can't if I can't recognize a statistically relevant improvement I'm not spending the money and I'm not spending the time I'm an army of one. I don't have time for it. Yeah. You know, I have a very It's in the name of the company I work for. Keep it simple. Like I kiss. Yes. You know, I just I want a really lean, clean and because I support commercial growers who are really under heavy scrutiny for heavy metals.

[00:51:50]>> I feel like >> Oh, yeah.

[00:51:51]>> It's a huge incentive to have a really super clean input because soil's like soup.

[00:51:56]>> Yeah.

[00:51:57]>> Always put more in. But you can't get nitrogen or heavy metals back out. And so you you know you the less that goes in the cleaner it's going to come out.

[00:52:10]>> Yep. I was uh it's funny enough uh Grower J Plant Speaker, I don't know if you've seen his Instagram or familiar with him, but it just his greenhouse is the most immaculate example of growing big plants. He's he's a very awesome grower. Anyways, he put up a post the other day uh about his merc tags, right?

[00:52:31]His metric tags. They contained lead, they contained BPA, and they contained like one other thing. And I was just like, "Oh, that's weird."

[00:52:40]>> Yeah. We're being held to higher, you know, standards in baby food. We didn't even have standards for baby food maybe four or five years ago, you know, and so it's >> it's tough and it's frustrating, but it is the world we have to deal with. And and I think if when and if we get to federal um all 50 states playing along, we get one oversight instead of this fractured state bystate thing, we're not going to see >> they're they're not going to choose the the softest states. They're going to choose the hardest states to pass in as far as where they set those federal guidelines. So, a lot of times if I'm talking to a facility in a lax state, >> I'll still walk them through the whole heavy metal thing because I want them to know that like >> you don't want to have to reset >> day one because you've been playing loose, you know, you want to be aware of these things and already have good SOPs, so it's not a change. And and honestly, it reduces your expenditure, you know, because you're you're just restricting what goes into them. And and if you're familiar with organic growing in Big Egg, you have to keep a log of everything for I think it's five years before you actually can get your field certified as a or or as organic.

[00:53:53]>> So, it's a it's a good approach for people who are under just heavy regulation like cannabis is just to like, dude, just do it by the book. Don't f around. kind of like you're saying, it's like the the closer we get to schedule three, the more it's going to be that way. These things are going to be looked at and whether whether they're right or not, like the aspiggillis thing in Oregon is the you would fail for more or for less than what's actually airborne.

[00:54:22]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:22]>> It's like, wait a minute.

[00:54:24]>> Yeah.

[00:54:24]>> How's that work?

[00:54:25]>> I I one of the things that I want from this quasi legal cannabis one, I want people number one, I don't want people to be scared. I have to go to jail, you know, get their doors kicked in, you know, their kids taken, all this insane [ __ ] that happens to camp. [ __ ] >> Yeah. Just [ __ ] That's number one.

[00:54:46]Uh, life and liberty. two.

[00:54:50]It would be really nice if nobody ever smoked Eagle 20 or Avid or Seven Dust or DDT or, you know, >> it would be really cool if nobody ever smoked poison again. And we all have a we all have a ethical responsibility.

[00:55:12]you know, I was a pirate, so like the legal side of it was always like, "Yeah, I heard about that." But the ethical side means a lot to me.

[00:55:20]>> And yes, >> of a moral responsibility. And for some of for a lot of people, >> um, cannabis is is a medicinal uh, product, you know, probably also along with recreational. I I use it for both.

[00:55:35]And um >> somebody that you know might be imuno compromised might have cancer might have Parkinson's or whatever they don't need more heavy metals more pesticides more they need clean medicine and so >> if you're going to produce should do it right.

[00:55:55]>> Yeah especially to they don't need that to put a dollar in somebody else's pocket. Like that's why I'm a huge homegrow fan. You know, that is one thing that I was excited about the legal system for. Like even in Washington, like med wasn't tested. Some people did provide it, but again, how good were those actual results? Who knows? But >> was always that.

[00:56:18]>> Yeah, it's like that that is something I was excited about. That's something I wanted about. I wanted consumer protection because grandma doesn't have a freaking drug dealer. She's got to go to the store. that's the only option.

[00:56:33]But unfortunately, um there's a profit motive, there's a lack of understanding, and there's a complete lack of oversight. So, it's basically the honor system. And unfortunately, not a 100% of the people play good when there's the honor system. So, I I actually had that decision the other day there. I was at the rec shop trying to get my onetoone pens because that's what I like. I want heavy CBD. That's the easiest form for me to get heavily concentrated. And they only had one option and I was like looking at it like okay. And I flipped it over and it was one of the companies I worked for.

[00:57:15]And I'm genuinely was like I can't guarantee the safety of this product. and I walked out without anything because I knew what went on, >> right? They were cutting corners.

[00:57:29]>> Nobody else would Nobody else would be like, "Oh, cool. That's exactly what I'm looking for."

[00:57:34]>> Yeah.

[00:57:34]>> So, >> it >> it's unfortunate, but when you teach people to grow sustainably for themselves, I think that's the way most people want to do it. So, yeah, it's out there. If they'll ever let us grow like tomatoes where we don't have to check in, where we just can we just grow a plant and enjoy it, that that that's when I'll feel good about all this. Um what um as as far as uh because we could we could talk for four more days, but um what uh I'll wrap it up. Um, what are you smoking on right now or recently that you were like, "Oh, wow. That that that's fantastic. I I I need to keep that one."

[00:58:22]>> I just finished the jar of No joke as we were talking. So, that's one of them.

[00:58:28]Um, Permanent Midnight probably is is the last one where I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not letting it go." Um, that it's it's really a gassy kind of a like upper nose. I burn a aringent. I wouldn't necessarily call it like gas because gasoline to me is very specific, but it's up there. It's in that category. It's not quite gas. It's not quite rubber. It's not quite hospital chemicals. It's like a it's the ven diagram of that, right?

[00:59:00]>> So, it meets somewhere in the middle.

[00:59:01]And it's it's it's unlike what I have in all of my other jars. So, you know, I always feel as you know that Kevin Jode Regency fruity, floral, earthy, and gassy. If you got one in each of those categories, you'll always keep them happy. So, >> yeah. And that's a that's I got to say like that's one of the best feelings in the world when one of your go-tos is one of your creations. It's just it's just there's something special about it. Uh I feel that way about >> that's the goal.

[00:59:30]>> It's my you know, because that's why we breed. We want to have the best weed that we like, you know, and so >> yeah, >> know I found something that was skunky and gassy, you know, did it for me and so and strong and uh yeah, I love it.

[00:59:45]>> Well, man, um thank you for coming on here and spending some time with me and um you know, I I'll I'll be tuning in uh couple Tuesdays from now to see you and Chad or you and Tad on the live and checking your YouTube. Is there any place folks else, you know, aside from your YouTube channel, your Instagram, where can folks find you? Are you going to be >> Yeah.

[01:00:11]>> Um, well, I'm trying to sell another house right now. Uh, once that happens, then we're going over to the Netherlands, but until that happens, I'm here. Uh, but yeah, chadwport.com.

[01:00:25]That's where people can find kind of the gear, the merch. Um, and then keep up with me on YouTube, Chad Westport. And yeah, Instagram, Chad.Westport on Instagram. Uh, th those are the places I'm at. Um, international folks who have been looking for like no joke and stuff, there's the dagger. Garden uh website, that's the only place that's going to have my stuff other than me. Um, it'll be interesting again come November to see where your stuff pops up. Uh, I'm gonna do a video on that soon for everybody because I suspect there may be some counterfeits floating around.

[01:01:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. I' I've had growers from Europe reach out to me not even wanting seeds, not even wanting cuts. They just wanted uh just [snorts] they wanted me to go buy packs so that I could send the packs to them so they could counterfeit the the foil, you know. And I'm like, get out of here. what are you talking about? But oh well.

[01:01:25]>> Yeah, I I tried doing Oh, I can't see it. But I tried doing hologram stickers on a lot of my stuff just >> I mean, yeah, you can reprint it, but it it's one extra step people have to go through.

[01:01:36]>> Yeah.

[01:01:37]>> And they're not cheap.

[01:01:38]>> I got I put holograms on my little seed packs or I did.

[01:01:43]>> Um.

[01:01:43]>> Right.

[01:01:44]>> Yeah. Thank you, bro, so much. Uh, and I look to uh Are you going to be at our conference in Montana?

[01:01:52]We'll see. I'm hoping. But uh there were Man, tell the housing market to pick up, would you? [laughter] >> Yeah, I I'll make some calls, bro. I'll make some calls. Um Yeah. Hey, thank you again so much for coming on and sharing some of your story and some of the cool stuff you're working on. And mad respect, I I really appreciate what you do for the community, man. So, big ups.

[01:02:14]>> Big ups. Thank you for having me. Thanks for watching, everybody. Brandon, you're the man. Peace out.