Focus on immigration and refugee policy: In conversation with Prof. Jo Vearey

Added: 2026-05-26

[00:00:00]Now, South Africa's approach to migration and refugee policy remains a complex and evolving issue shaped by questions of sovereignty, human rights, and regional movement across the continent. Let's now look at some of these policies with professor Joel Vieri who is the associate professor and core director at the African Center for Migration and Society at the University of the Veteran. Good evening to you Prof and thank you so much for your time.

[00:00:24]Perhaps um we start with something that at times we hear people use interchangeably. Let's talk about the difference between a refugee and an asylum seeker.

[00:00:35]>> So this is a really important definition or difference as you say. So an individual who is seeking asylum um holds something called a section 22 permit and they will have applied to the Department of Home Affairs for a refugee status determination process. This is where the Department of Home Affairs will assess and review their application and determine whether an individual qualifies for refugee status. A refugee is then somebody who is given permission, the right to remain within the country with the same rights and entitlements as as citizens. What's important to acknowledge is that the process for determining whether or not an individual is going to be granted refugee status takes an inordinately long time, often over 10 years. um something a backlog that the department of home affairs should be dealing with currently >> and let's speak about the factors around these particular processes right because the the there is of course as you say a distinction here so would they follow the same legal process or the passage of time as you've just described it for us in one of them uh make things a little bit more different?

[00:01:46]Well, what is really challenging is the length of time these processes take.

[00:01:50]Individuals who are seeking asylum are often provided with um what are known as section 22 permits that may have as little as a one-mon validity per validity frame. These are then a document that must be then renewed every 30 days or every 3 months or six months.

[00:02:08]And this cycle must continue until that individual's status has been determined.

[00:02:13]As you can imagine, this is obviously hugely challenging. It requires individuals to spend lots of time traveling to and waiting at um Department of Home Affairs facilities, which we know are also um associated with high levels of corruption and huge challenges for individuals trying to access those offices. So we see many times individuals experience challenges in renewing those documents which could at times render them undocumented while they are waiting for a replacement document. And this is one of the big challenges that the Department of Home Affairs has a responsibility to resolve.

[00:02:50]>> And when you look at the protests that have been taking place um one can't help but of course to remember that South Africa has international obligations. So what impact do these have on how the country deals with the issues around migration?

[00:03:07]>> Um in terms of the the protests?

[00:03:10]>> Yes. When you look at the protest themselves and what people are also raising as concerns, including the processes you've just you've just outlined now, you think, for example, some people would say it's as simple as that that when somebody is in the country undocumented, be it they're waiting for the home affairs department or not, they must be sent back to their countries. And now we even see what appears to be a 30 uh 30th of June deadline to say everybody must leave the country. All of these events are happening against the juxiposition of a country that also has international obligations. So how do you begin to navigate this complex issue?

[00:03:48]I think as you say what's important is to think about international obligations and obligations that South Africa itself as a republic has through the constitution. We're seeing a worrying collapse of refugee rights, but also of the ability for individuals traveling from other countries to regularize their stay. We see this through policy shifts and policy changes and through a policy terrain that is increasingly being driven by anti-forigner and xenophobic rhetoric. It is a space in which we are seeing political leaders um using xenophobic rhetoric to scapegoat foreigners for failures in the delivery of actions for which the state is responsible and all of this is coming together to justify and in many ways condone the acts of vigilante groups at the local level. So there is um of course an effort by the department of home affairs currently with that white paper um that they're talking about on migration but there is the principle of non-refilement which would mean that once a person presents themselves as a refugee you can't turn them back. So how do you reconcile this with what the white paper for example would suggest as the principle of first safe country.

[00:05:05]So we're facing um a challenge where the ways in which this has been presented in the white paper is viewed by many as as actually not a viable solution. It really is a proposal in the way that it is framed at the moment that risks compounding a range of legal challenges, administrative complexity and humanitarian harm. Now obviously the first safe country principle is as you say associated with the principle of non-refulment. A challenge that we face is that countries that might be considered the first safe country are not actually safe countries even though they may not be deemed so by the South African states or they also are in a context of other forms of humanitarian crisis and conflict but are themselves countries that are producing asylum seekers. So we need to be very very careful when we're thinking about what this means in our context and we need to really carefully think about the ways in which the white paper in its present formulation does not offer protection to individuals currently governed under the refugee act.

[00:06:11]>> So there are others who are juaposing that to say that the system is open for abuse um and also needs um you know regulation and a reimagination. Others are saying that it needs to evolve. So how do you then marry the two?

[00:06:27]>> I think what's really important is starting from the principle of the fact that we have obligations both internationally, regionally and nationally. We have existing legislation that should if it is followed correctly uphold those rights and responsibilities of the state. What we're seeing is a failure in governance and a failure to deliver. And the result is this crisis that we see with individuals who are seeking asylum being unable to easily renew documents and easily remain regular within the state structures. And this is something that the Department of Home Affairs along with other government departments must urgently respond to.

[00:07:08]They must recognize the levels of corruption that take place within home affairs offices and the ways in which foreign nationals, particularly asylum seekers, are often held ransom when they are coming to try and renew documents.

[00:07:21]Until we resolve that, we're not going to res resolve some of our important documentation challenges.

[00:07:27]>> Prof. appreciate your time and thank you so much for helping us navigate this terrain um especially when it comes to policies and just uh really just managing um you know the international obligations here and what does it all mean professor Joe Very there associate professor and co director at the African center for migration and society at the university of vat That's sort