Pepe Escobar: Iran Wipes Out Trump’s Attack – Russia & China’s Massive Move

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-22

[00:00:05]Hi everybody. Today's Thursday, May 21st, 2026, and our dear friend, our brother, no mcoar is here with us.

[00:00:15]Welcome back, Pepe.

[00:00:16]>> Niha Nema, Niha, everybody. Eva, >> straight from Shanghai. It's 10 p.m. in Shanghai. Uh, I apologize already for all of you because I am in a Chinese hotel and Wi-Fi is complicated because it's a tsunami of clients using Wi-Fi at the same time. So, I hope this Wi-Fi here holds and I'm on a VPN with a server from Singapore, which is the the strongest that I could find at the moment. So, I hope everything does not collapse.

[00:00:52]>> Hope so.

[00:00:54]Pepe, let me play a clip of she in the final declaration, the meeting, the summit he had with Vladimir Putin. Here is what he said because that's that would be a, you know, in my opinion, a good point to start with. Here is what he said.

[00:01:13]>> The world today is far from peaceful with unilateralism and hgemonism posing profound dangers.

[00:01:21]The world faces the risk of regressing to the law of the jungle. My proposal to build a community with a shared future for mankind and the four global initiatives have received widespread support from the international community including Russia.

[00:01:38]Yeah, I think looking at what's going on the basic for China, for Russia, for all these players in the region in Eurasia, the peace is so important. Peace is the key in my opinion and that's why he was talking this way. What was what is your understanding of what has happened between she and Putin?

[00:02:00]Well, uh uh Nema, I sent you my column, which I hope is going to be published in Russia tonight.

[00:02:08]It's it's one of my most important columns I would say in the last few years because I dedicate most of it to analyzing the joint declaration by President Xi and President Putin by the People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation which is it's absolutely immense because this this is it all the blah blah blah that we had so far about creating a multipolar world brick summit SEO uh in the UN uh in meetings between leaders in think tanks etc. It takes two leaders. The leaders of two superpowers.

[00:02:57]The other one is the United States. It's a completely different story. the leaders of the two superpowers who are coordinating the integration of Eurasia, the leaders of bricks, the leaders of the SEO, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the leaders of the global south, de facto together on the same day that they have an immensely extensive agenda uh discussing serious business uh signing at least 20 documents of deals in absol absolutely every uh uh aspect and uh spectrum and then having uh nearly two hour tea time tea ceremony conversation with only some restricted um uh members of the delegation on each side. There were three on the Russian side, three on the Chinese side, the interpreters and Puty and she. And this was closed doors at the this was at at the end of the day.

[00:04:02]Uh and Putin left at night back uh to Russia yesterday at night on uh Wednesday. We are on Thursday.

[00:04:11]This uh declaration just to uh pick up on the clip that we uh that you showed us uh when C talks about the law of the jungle. This is part of the declaration is the second point. The most important point the the point that opens the declaration is the notion of polyentrism and this is a very Russian notion. uh Putin has been uh o over the past let's say two years or so he has been coming back to the notion that uh the leaders of Eurasia and the leaders of the multipolar world they have to establish a longterm state of polyentrism which is another way of uh describing multipolarity the law of the jungle is puts she I'm sorry made a direct reference for it related to the absolute collapse of international law and international relations. This is also the language of the declaration.

[00:05:23]There is this this is how it's written in a declaration. There is a danger of fragmentation within the international community and a return to the law of the jungle. So how we escape the law of the jungle? That's also once again in the declaration going for a new security architecture.

[00:05:49]And this is a key, absolutely key passage because it picks up the Russian proposal at the end of 2021 when they sent letters to the White House and to NATO. This was during the previous autopen administration in the United States. They were proposing indivisibility of security which is exactly the language of the joint declaration. We need to reject this is how it's written. We need to reject block confrontation.

[00:06:27]That's a direct reference to NATO. Zero someum gain strategies. That's the typical exceptionalist American approach. Oppose the expansion of military alliances. Once again, this is directed to NATO. Hybrid wars. We are right in the middle of multiple hybrid wars against members of the global south everywhere. proxy wars, a direct reference to the war in Ukraine, which is a proxy war between NATO and Russia, and promote the creation of an updated, balanced, effective, and sustainable global and regional security architecture.

[00:07:10]So, as you can see, Nema, and all of you, our audience, the Chinese and the Russians are once again reiterating points that they have been making for years.

[00:07:24]And of course, on the other side, he falls on deaf ears from years to years.

[00:07:32]Their deaf ears simply are uh they are uh genetically incapable of understanding uh this new message.

[00:07:40]Once again uh in the um uh joint statement they talk in detail about global governance.

[00:07:49]This is another Cinping concept. Uh and it was explained in detail last year at the SEO summit in Tanzhin. All of us who were there, we singled out that this was the most important moment at the SEO summit in Tanzin where China once again was projecting to the whole planet uh its role of one of the key drivers of multipolarity.

[00:08:17]Uh there's a reference to the United Nations but we all all of us we all know that this is not going uh anywhere. Uh the declaration calls for a reform of the United Nations. We know, all of us know uh camels in the Silk Road, in the New Silk Road know, you know, grains of sand in the Sahara Desert know that with this current administration, the White House, there won't be a reform of the United Nations, but they make their point. And point number four, uh, Nema, it's immensely important because it's about civilization and about diversity.

[00:08:56]This is this is the point in the declaration that buries all these pretensions of the exceptionalists. Uh I'll just quote uh uh a short a a short part of a long sentence that puts it all together. The spiritual and moral system of any civilization cannot be considered exceptional or superior to others. All countries should advocate a view of civilizations based on equality, mutual exchange of experience and dialogue.

[00:09:35]So this is a call for a civilizational approach to the 21st century and it's coming Nema. And now we uh we can go for broke and say out loud that's the end of the previous indispensable nation the United States. The new indispensable nation is China and the new indispensable relationship is Russia and China. They are forging this new architecture of multipolarity.

[00:10:15]So that's why thisation is a I would say this is the foundation stone of the possibility of uh changing the system of international relations.

[00:10:29]It should be read with a lot of care and attention by everyone around the global south. And of course we know how the reaction is going to be in parts of the global north and of course uh by the empire of chaos and piracy. So this was the most important uh result of this uh uh lightning fast trip by Putin coming here to China and the whole practically the whole day that the delegations spent together all the way to the tea ceremony and it was quite something and the Chinese um uh social sphere was absolutely riveted.

[00:11:14]They were fascinated by everything. Uh they were always stressing the respect that Putin has for Chinese culture and Chinese civilization and the bonds the direct persontoerson friendship bond between C and Putin that comes back a long long time. And there was a very nice touch in all of that.

[00:11:40]There was uh an exhibition in the great hall of the people which was uh basically a joint exhibition of photos by TAS in Russia and the Sinoa agency in uh China. Of all those meetings that Putin and she have had over the years in different forum uh in Russia in China uh all across Eurasia etc. This is to uh illustrate the personto person relationship that is uh part and parcel of this big project which is to have a world that is more full of equanimity and especially mutual respect among different civilizations. So this was a pivotal moment of the 21st century and I'm I'm very very privileged to have witnessed this from here Shanghai which is basically this is the capital of China in terms of culture in terms of business in terms of high-tech and in terms of uh driving uh China and Eurasia towards a better future I it was quite an experience very important and I was very lucky Nema I spent the in a in a school, middle school, vocational school, university, private, one of the top ones in Shanghai and one of the best in China, the Aurora uh organization. And I spend the day with the teachers and the students and we had of course many opportunities during uh the day and at night during uh our uh dinner to comment and get into detail about all that. So once again, people's to people's exchange to quote Cinping. Uh what a day. Absolutely fantastic.

[00:13:34]>> Yeah.

[00:13:35]Pepe, we know that one of the basic one of the main issues during the meeting between she and Donald Trump was the case of the Middle East and the Straight of Hormuz. What do we know about the meeting they had between Pung and Xi and how much of the you know how much are they concerned about the situation in the Middle East? Well, there are no leaks. Uh this is very very important.

[00:14:01]This was not discussed in that morning which was a business meeting and when the delegations met to discuss business.

[00:14:09]This was discussed uh at tea time in that extended tea ceremony that lasted almost two uh hours with like once again three members of the delegation on on each side. For instance, Lavrov was on the Russian side. Wii was on the Chinese side. And the three main topics, this is what we know via diplomatic sources, but no leaks whatsoever about the content because this was a closed door meeting.

[00:14:42]But we know the three uh main points of discussion.

[00:14:47]the proxy war in Ukraine, the the war against Iran and the United States and the empire of chaos and piracy out of control and all of that of course is interlin and interlocked. Right? So there are projections and based on what diplomats were able to say that Putin explained to she that maybe the Russian approach towards the war in Ukraine is going to change and it's going to be much more radical and this also based on internal pressure in Russia after this latest uh wave of terrorist drone attacks against civilian targets in the Russian Federation. Of course, Russian public opinion now is becoming quite exasperated. So Putin simply cannot afford not to do anything about it and that will influence uh what sort of offensive or different or multi-layered offensive Russia is going to launch within the next few days and weeks and of course uh more uh midterm if there's going to be an effort this year still to really finish that off which is becoming the absolute majority opinion all across Russia.

[00:16:24]Of course they discussed Iran because they have both of them they have strategic partnerships with Iran.

[00:16:33]Iran is supported by Russia and China and Russia and China together at several levels. Most of them we don't see and they go way beyond diplomacy, way beyond uh very important military details like uh the Iranians having access to Beu satellite information 24/7 way beyond uh military equipment that Russia transferred via the Caspian from Astraan to Thran in that famous shuttle and of course uh intel first class intel information by uh Russia to Iran which is part of their military cooperation.

[00:17:18]There's it's not a military treaty. So they discussed all that and of course she told Putin face to face what he discussed with the emperor of Barbaria last week.

[00:17:34]So the interval between two visits was a matter of 5 days or so. And of course uh because they have a strategic partnership at the highest level as was reiterated during the whole day yesterday in several occasions.

[00:17:52]And of course because they are both conducting and if you look at the uh the joint statement once again they are conducting a process very complex deep as deep as it can get of changing the whole system of international relations. They have to know what uh the current leader of the empire nowadays is thinking not thinking or thinking that he's thinking because after all he's not a thinker. So yes she explained to Putin what happened last week in Beijing. So these are the three top themes Nema and all of you in the audience. Uh there are once again there are no leaks about the substance and there won't be because this was a closed meeting and this is a matter of state secrets between Moscow and Beijing. But the thing is what's very important at that they are totally in sync uh Nema and all of you Russia and China when it comes to the to the ongoing wars to the possible solution of these wars and how to contain and manage an empire completely out of control. They are completely in sync. So that's the major takeaway of this T- ceremony conversation.

[00:19:19]>> Yeah.

[00:19:21]What is your understanding Pepe of the new what's going on in the Middle East between Iran and the United States?

[00:19:27]Donald Trump said that he wanted to attack Iran. One hour before that he has decided to cancel the attack because of Saudi Arabia Qatar and these countries are asking him you know not to attack Iran. We have this the the gathering of the people in Saudi Arabia because of this you know period you know we have this particular time in a year that everybody goes to Hajj as they call it goes to Saudi Arabia to be there for a short period of time. It it it starts between 24 May 24th to May 30th if I'm not mistaken. But was was that Saudi Arabia and Qatar asking these two countries were asking Donald Trump or there was something else going on between you know United States and Iran.

[00:20:23]>> Uh everything about what really happened Nema is spin. We cannot trust anything especially what comes from Zionists working with American mainstream media.

[00:20:36]They are uh specialized in spreading out all sorts of unqualified and sometimes uh stratospheric uh Saudi Arabia, they are hedging carefully their bets that they know that on a financial uh uh spectrum they are hostages of the Americans because all their money is in Wall Street and in the city of London is in the west is not across uh West Asia or even uh across uh Eurasia very little.

[00:21:14]They are uh very very important. They are not part of the wararm mongering camp in the Persian Gulf. The wararmongering camp is the UAE. The UAE is directly aligned with the Zionists and with the Americans. They're going to pay a very heavy price for that sooner rather than later.

[00:21:38]Saudi Arabia is part of what we we called a few weeks ago the four Sunnis.

[00:21:45]those that first got together in Islamabad exchanging ideas to see if they could come up with a sort of mediation plan between Iran and the US. Once again Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Egypt. So they had their first meeting in Islamabad. The next day the foreign minister of Pakistan had to hop on a plane and go to China to explain to Wii what they were talking about.

[00:22:15]and Wing essentially said look this is this is not so good you have to up your game. So China in the background started to become more active and of course helping Pakistan to solidify its position as mediator.

[00:22:34]Now it's much more complicated after Islamabad one which was by the way in the end destroyed by the Americas and after uh zero Islamabad 2 we are uh at an interregnum which is very very dangerous we are in a I wouldn't even call calm before the storm we are in a sort of fake calm because a a practically inevitable storm that should become coming um maybe sooner than later.

[00:23:08]According to the words of the viferating emperor of Barbaria himself, every day the zillions of posts, everybody's fed up with all this is stupidity. The problem is he controls the new cycle. He viferates when stupidity controls the news cycle for hours and until the next viferated stupidity on social media. So that's that's an infernal machine in fact uh with everything with debasement of language, debasement of critical thinking, uh hurling accusations, uh flights of fancy, uh hyster completely hysterical attacks and that's the problem because this conditions everyone and it's reproduced all over the world.

[00:23:57]Does that affect the behavior of serious players? No, it does not affect the behavior of Iran as you know very well Nema and it does not affect the behavior of Russia and China. So now what is emerging and this is not on the headlines.

[00:24:18]This is part of some uh privileged information that I received from from diplomatic channels and it needs uh we need to work very carefully around it and we cannot publish what sort of uh conversations they are having because now we have Iran, Pakistan, Russia and China and guess who North Korea discussing together a new possible system of security for Eurasia as a whole including West Asia.

[00:25:02]This is immensely important and it's something that will I will be working on in the next few weeks here in China when I go to Moscow at the end of of next week and then uh when I continue in Europe and of course with all our connections across uh Eurasia the sound position is relatively aligned with let's say this uh quintet if we Think in terms of Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China and North Korea. And the key point is missiles.

[00:25:39]There is a missile discussion about all of them because the main deterrent against the follyies of the empire of chaos and piracy across Eurasia is missile potential.

[00:25:55]Very very important as Iran has demonstrated.

[00:25:59]And this leads us, Nema, to something I may be able to quote from a correspondence that I received these past two days and it directly concerns Iran, Nema. And you can tell me if you agree with this assessment which essentially comes from Iran, from some of the highest circles in Iran.

[00:26:27]They are now a confident in a manner that they were not 20 years ago or even 10 years ago.

[00:26:37]So this this is the key of the whole argument. They are confident that they can absorb an initial strike, which is what once again the Zionists are considering as their next step sooner rather than later, and still deliver a devastating second phase response through layered retaliation. I am quoting from my correspondence and that includes missiles, drones, maritime disruption, proxy activation, cyber operations, attacks against energy and financial arteries across West Asia.

[00:27:19]This is something that Iran can do with no problem as you know very well, Nema.

[00:27:24]And uh Iranian authorities have already warned that if that happens, this is what they're going to do.

[00:27:32]So what is the strategic message of all that coming from Thran is that if uh if they renew the war, if a new attack comes, the opening act will not determine the outcome. The retaliation cycle will determine the outcome. And that nim was certainly discussed by Putin and she face to face because of course their diplomatic uh and their backdoor um networks are very active with North Korea, with Pakistan and of course with their strategic ally Iran.

[00:28:19]Uh very important point. The Americans are completely unaware that this is going on because this is a uh a collaboration and practically invisible negotiation track which involves Eurasia players. It does not involve the US much less uh the rest of the rest of the fragmented west.

[00:28:44]This is centered essentially on Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China and North Korea.

[00:28:51]And the Saudis are outside observing because once there is a sort of new framework for security across Eurasia including these five partners as participants, Saudi Arabia will be part of it because Saudi Arabia after all they already have a military pact with Pakistan.

[00:29:17]So the Saudis at the moment their position is okay. Let's not ruffle too many feathers. Let's be quiet for the moment. But once again it's a completely different position compared to the completely demented I would say uh MBZ UAE and not all the Emirates only Abu Dhabi and Dubai and especially Abu Dhabi.

[00:29:41]So uh he made his bet and Bizad his bet is Zionists and the Empire of Chaos. So you know when when when things start to really happen, he'll be one of the first to go down assuming that he knows or he he's gangsterish enough uh to know that sooner or later he's going to be in deep deep trouble. He was already betrayed by the Israelis and he can be easily betrayed by the Americans and Israelis over and over again.

[00:30:15]So this is the uh I would say the the architecture of what's going on underground at the moment. It's an immensely complex process Nema very very complex. The good thing is that uh once again because China and Russia are in the driver's seat because the presidents of China and Russia yesterday they were discussing among other things how this architecture of this indivisibility of security is going to progress from now on. And at the same time they know if we read once again the joint statement that they need to control an empire completely under this uh president totally untrustworthy and even more dangerous because they're out of control. So that's that's why we have this uh what is on the headlines which is more or less obvious day after day but these underground parallel uh negotiations the the these ones are the real deal just like uh the the substruct of the Russia China strategic partnership which is the methodology or different methodologies that they use to conduct this process towards the multilater al world. You don't see that on headlines as well. It was discussed in a closed private session yesterday between both of them.

[00:31:47]When it comes to the war with Iran, Pepe, I I think that the calculation or the understanding on the part of Iranian is that the war is coming because not because the United States in a good position right now.

[00:32:02]They're having some sort of level because Israel and Benjamin Net is desperate right now. He falters domestically. He has to do something about it. That's why they're feeling that the United States may attack Iran.

[00:32:16]And the response is obvious for us because you remember before the war, the second round of war happening, they said it's going to be a regional war. If you start the war, it's going to be regional. right now IRGC announced just yesterday that it's not it's going to go beyond the region. It means that they're gonna >> but that's exactly what I told you five minutes ago Nema uh in the the assessment by the Iranian leadership that the response is going to be the real deal not the first strike by the Zionists and the Americans. That's you're what you're saying is absolutely correct. That's it.

[00:32:54]>> And they're honest in the way they're expressing themselves. We've seen that before. They they have no reason to lie about it.

[00:33:01]>> They're not lying.

[00:33:04]>> And they spell out their position clearly over and over again every day.

[00:33:10]And obviously those clowns don't listen because they it's genetically impossible for them to listen and to admit that the rules of the game have changed.

[00:33:22]>> And I would assume they're going to hit Diego Garcia. They're gonna hit somewhere close to Greece.

[00:33:28]>> Right. Quite possible.

[00:33:30]>> All those bases that have been used during the war, the second round of war, they're gonna get they're going to hit them.

[00:33:37]>> Yes. Because they are all legitimate targets. Absolutely.

[00:33:41]>> Yeah. And putting that aside, Pepe, we had some something from Saudi Arabia. They call it non-aggression pack. How does that fit in the new picture that you gave us about Eurasian concept?

[00:34:00]Are they prepared to to accept something from Saudi Arabia and GCC countries to be the silent to be at the margins of a new security architecture?

[00:34:11]>> No. If there is a uh if there is a new security architecture guaranteed especially by Russia and China, this will encompass the GCC and in this case the umbrella will be provided by Pakistan. That will be the major major game changer. It will not be the US anymore. It will be Pakistan and of course Pakistan supported in the background by Russia and China. So no direct involvement of Russia and China in a new security umbrella for the Persian Gulf and for the the pro monarchies. But because of the close relationship between Pakistan and the GCC, it's self-evident. And of course Iran would agree with that based on what they are discussing with the Pakistanis and based on the role of guaranters by both Russia and China. So now we're we're talking about um and it applies once it's it's it's a multipolar uh negotiation between all these Eurasian players which is how are we going to secure West Asia again in a completely different framework that we across Eurasia control and not controlled by um the empire of chaos, plunder, piracy, the whole everything that they do so well, right?

[00:35:45]I don't know what was the tone about did they talk about the situation with Taiwan because during the meeting between Donald Trump and she I'm sure that they were talking about it but how about she talking to Putin or to maybe considering the case of Taiwan and how does Russia see the case of Taiwan >> Nema they don't need to talk about that the Russian position is very very very in fact the Russian position is so obvious that Putin once again reaffirmed the one China policy totally supported by the Russian Federation. That's that's all you need. You need one ph one phrase, one sentence and that's over because they know and obviously C knows how Putin feels about Taiwan and he knows the official position of the Russian Federation. So you you don't need to uh spell it out over and over again. Uh you do that in 10 seconds and that's it. Okay, let's talk about something else with the Americans. A completely different story, Nea, and all of you and I'm sure all of you are uh aware that the Taiwan issue is pre completely prefabricated by the exceptionalists. It's a non-issue. And China has been saying this for decades. There will be peaceful reunification. Period. And we are not in a hurry. We have until at least 2049 according to Deng Xiaoing for peaceful reunification with Taiwan. So they're not in a hurry. It will happen. It's it's going to be similar to the the process with Hong Kong. It's going to be probably uh one country, three systems.

[00:37:32]We have for the moment one country, two systems with uh Hong Kong. With Taiwan, we're going to have one country, three systems. they will be relatively uh autonomous.

[00:37:42]Um uh it's an an industrial powerhouse that will continue to be so. But of course the overarching framework will be Chinese Chinese mainland from Beijing.

[00:37:55]This is a non-issue everywhere across Asia. Nema nobody in Asia discusses Taiwan. Everybody knows what's going to happen. It's a Chinese problem and it is a Chinese domestic problem. Of course, from the point of view of um of the dwindling empire, of course, they need reasons to harass, contain, encircle China. So, Taiwan is one of them. The South China Sea as a whole is another one. The Strait of Malaka, if they decide to block, it's another one. The Chinese are fully aware, you know, trying to block the Chinese inside the first island chain, not to mention the second, et. And the Chinese, of course, they have been working on it uh on military levels to break this American imposed encircumment inside the island chains. And this is something that they they they already can do it, but they don't need to advertise it too much. This is not how China works. China works in silence and with lots of hard work.

[00:39:03]It's some and with planning extremely long term. It's not an accident that they have successive fiveyear plans and you have to fill all the targets explicitly uh outlined in each five-year plan. the one that starts this year 2026. We were discussing this yesterday at at the school university here in in Shanghai.

[00:39:31]Uh ju just to give an idea a simple detail for all of you in uh until 2030 the plan is to have 70% of the Chinese economy directly interconnected and linked to artificial intelligence.

[00:39:49]And this was one of the key points of our discussion yesterday and I had fantastic qu questions from the kids from the students and they were worried are we going to have jobs in this future and of course this is an an open discussion in China everywhere it's a big discussion on on Chinese social media everywhere is AI going to end up destroying uh jobs everywhere and what are we going to do with these populations that will need to be recycled because they lost their their jobs taken over by AI. This is what China is thinking nowadays. How they're going to modernize even faster than they have been modernizing so far. Uh when you look at the uh um the obvious signs of modernized China all across Shanghai, it's such that in the people in the west they have no clue about it how advanced it is. It's immensely impressive and I have I have had the chance at this time to go to many parts of Shanghai not staying in the the the original clust clusters you know and you see the modernization spreading to everyday life everywhere you go it's immensely impressive so this is this is what they discuss and foreign policy for them they know they know that they have their alliances across Asia they know that the relationship Russia is very strong and in terms of providing the energy that they need, it's a deal. For instance, they yesterday, one of the conclusions was, okay, we're going to speed up Power of Siberia 2. It was supposed to go uh uh be inaugurated by 2030 or so. No, they wanted to be inaugurated possibly next year, by the end of 2027.

[00:41:42]And then this if the the Americans want to blockade uh the straight of Malaka, who cares? They have two mega gas pipelines from Russia. The SPO, the Power Siberia one, which is already maximum capacity, and they're going to have the Power Siberia 2 as well via Mongolia.

[00:42:00]No problem at all. So that's why they can allow themselves. Okay, now let's concentrate on uh our internal domestic problems, loss of jobs. there is inflation. Uh it's not stratospheric like in many uh western places but inflation is growing in China. So they are concentrating on tweaking the model which essentially works. So that's the number one preoccupation and it's preoccupation of the five-year plan. The only external problem that they have is American harassment, containment of of China by any means necessary. And of course, these direct and indirect wars against China. They know perfectly well that the war against Iran is also a war against China.

[00:42:51]Everybody knows that. If you ask kids in college, they know about this.

[00:42:59]>> Yeah. It's it's so amazing because some people are trying to say that all the only thing that matters to China is making money. They don't have any strategy. They don't it's just >> Nema look I'm get maybe I'm getting too old for this I don't have patience for stupidity. Exactly.

[00:43:17]>> Not my age and not what I lived all across the world for the past four decades you know. So when I come here, I come here as a student and yesterday they were tell telling me ah you want to go back uh to be a student. said, "Oh yes, if I could, I'll be here in the classroom with you as a student learning." And when you come to China, you learn nonstop about everything, everything uh civilizational aspects and modernization aspects and of course uh daily rituals. Um especially uh the mutual respect that people have, the way people treat each other, the way they treat their elders, uh how they follow uh the rituals of daily life. There is a deep respect for this rituals for uh the hierarchy of this rituals and how to respect the other uh especially and all these rules of polyest and civilization.

[00:44:23]It's extraordinary. It's it's always a learning experience and a humbling experience. You're learning from them all the time. And of course they are hardworking. They don't want trouble with anybody. They want to make money with the whole planet. Of course they do. They are a merchant uh uh uh system of course and they are doing that. But they want to uh do business on a win-win basis with everybody including their opponents including uh the empire of uh total chaos.

[00:44:58]And but of course they know that it's going to be very hard especially now that they are already the number one geoeconomic power in the world and the people who run the show in the US Nema they will never accept that they will try to undermine harass do all sorts of horrible things against China and this is not going to change but the Chinese are ready and that's the main difference I would say this attitude started to solidify Last year when Trump launched his first tsunami of sanctions against China last year I remember well I was here in Shanghai at the time and we could see that reaction was completely different compared to the past they they stood up and they say ah you want to mess with us okay just wait so now it's a completely different story now the Americans are learning that they cannot mess with China and Chinaina China knows how to or at least like she demonstrated last week. He managed the emperor of Barbaria and at the same time he was smacking him on his teeth which such subtlety that the emperor of Barbaria didn't even notice. This is what civilizations do. They are sophisticated enough to go for broke but of course in a very civilized way.

[00:46:35]>> Baby, did did Trump try to convince she to buy energy oil from the United States? And what was the response from?

[00:46:44]>> It's what this is is what they say. Once again, spin. You don't see this anywhere in any of the uh official communications by the Ministry of Commerce. And obviously the Chinese are not going to buy American energy for what? They're going to buy energy from their enemy.

[00:47:03]No bloody way. No way. No, this is this is American spin. And that's the problem because they they spin all sorts of This is picked up by everybody around the world including independent analysts and they reproduce it without checking with the Chinese.

[00:47:22]And of course the Chinese are not going to tell you all the details but they can simply issue a no this is not true which they do all the time.

[00:47:34]>> There you go. Just just to wrap it up, Pepe, can we say that the Trump's agenda to dominate the energy market is over because of what has happened in the Middle East because of this summit between she and Russia about the new pipeline? You you you mentioned between Russia and China. And how is the mar and the the energy market for Eurasia as time goes by? Well, uh, no, it's not it's not Nemo is not over. They're going to try to pull new tricks, of course.

[00:48:07]Uh, they are absolutely desperate because the whole Hormuz operation failed because one of the key objectives of this war from the beginning, not stated publicly, was if you take control of Iranian Persian Gulf ports and the straight of Hormuz. They were not even talking about the Caspian. It's a different story. There was center centered on the Persian Gulf and the straight of Armus. You control most of the flow of Iranian energy uh outside of Iran all the way to Asia. So that's why this was a war from the beginning against Iran and against Asian customers of Iranian energy. As we can see, the whole thing was a major failure and will continue to be a major failure. So, they're going to try something else.

[00:48:59]They're going to try to pull some tricks. Uh, the Mala angle, it's still on.

[00:49:06]>> Yeah, >> they can try to do something.

[00:49:09]I wouldn't say short term, but at least midterm based on this.

[00:49:16]The Indonesians sometimes they they can be uh quite something. Indonesians do a military agreement with the Americans.

[00:49:25]So, uh, they're going to regret this big big time. So, the Americans could use this military agreement to pressure the Indonesians and we're going to have a military vessels in the street of Malaa close to the Indonesian coastlines in the in Sumatra.

[00:49:42]Anything is possible and the Chinese are ready for that >> and the other players in Asia are also ready for that. But the uh if there is a strategy nema uh with the Americans they don't they don't do anything strategically. It's always tactics one tactic after another.

[00:50:03]The overall uh desire not strategy is to block choke points that are used by the Chinese anywhere.

[00:50:17]The problem is they're running out of chalk points to block >> because the options for the Chinese they're multiplying by the day.

[00:50:27]Guess one of the most important discussions at the St. Petersburg forum which is going to be what in two weeks from now. I hope to be there once again.

[00:50:38]The Northern Silk Road as the Chinese call it the Northern Sea route the Russian denomination the polar or arctic silk road the Chinese denomination.

[00:50:49]That's it. once again bypassing the Swiss canal, the international or south uh transportation corridor which is once again uh Russia, Iran, India. Maybe India will be out of the picture sooner rather than later. Who will jump in?

[00:51:06]China once again especially now that the port of Guad is being used like an Iranian port. It's this is one of the most fascinating developments of this past two months. Uh in the beginning intuitively uh there was this feeling that Shabbah was competing against Guada. Shabbah as you know anea in system Baluchistan in Iran and Guada in the Arabian Sea in Pakistan distance 80 kilometers very very close. So they were natural competitors. Now not anymore because Iranians are using the port of Guad as well which is part of the new sick roads. It's the terminal in the Arabian Sea of the China Pakistan economic corridor. And what this spells out once again very close collaboration between Iran, Pakistan and China.

[00:52:03]>> Exactly.

[00:52:04]>> So exactly Neiman. So but do the Americans think about stuff like that?

[00:52:09]Obviously not never because they don't think strategically and they don't think that their enemies or rivals or malign creatures or whatever stupid terminology they use are capable of thinking strategically and organizing themselves strategically. That's another example.

[00:52:30]>> Yeah.

[00:52:32]Thank you so much for being with us today. Great pleasure as always. Enor enormous pleasure, Nema. Thank you. And I I I I assume our uh Wi-Fi held >> thanks to our Singapore server 10G.

[00:52:52]>> Thanks everybody. Greetings to all of you from Shanghai, the capital of the 21st century. We remain here next week.

[00:53:00]We'll still be talking to you from Shanghai. Thank you so much all of you and thank you. You are Dimma. You are in a different galaxy in terms of being a gentleman. You are very very special as you know.