Middle Nation Book Discussion: the Crusades Through Arab Eyes | Session 9

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[00:00:01]So, welcome everyone to uh the latest session. I honestly lost count. The latest session of um the crusades through Arab eyes by the author Amin Maluf. Uh this is a book regarding the firi campaigns that were conducted uh on the event and on Egypt sometimes um between uh 1099 and 1291 specifically.

[00:00:28]uh it details this uh conflict but from the point of view of the Muslim chronicers uh although the book uh the book title suggests that it's from it from the Arab uh point of view but we established early on that this wasn't was was not indeed the case. The case was that the ethnicities of the Muslims were mixed. There were Turks, there were Kurds, there were u Arabs, there was everything everything. And so it was inaccurate to portray it as a uh crusader Arab conflict. Uh rather it was a uh a Muslim fangi conflict to be more accurate. And so um last time we had reached the point where um Nurad Mahmood um one of the one of the greatest uh men to have ruled the Levant and Egypt because nominally Egypt was under his control up to the time of his death. one of the greatest men to have ruled in the region. Um after the the the of course the the and those you know famous names uh Mahmud did actually uh hold a significant position and a significant place you know a remarkable place in the history of Muslim rulers uh due to his you know uh charisma his efforts everything um to our listeners and of course to our uh speakers feel free to you know um refer back to the the the earlier uh uh recordings and the earlier discussions uh detailing norad mahmud's you know journey and rise to power and of course his father before him. So we had thought that um nor Mahmood uh failed to recognize that his you know his journey was over his role in in in trying to unify to unify the you know the event in Egypt in order to to uh to prep up the climax for the final battle against the fange to expel them from the leant. um you know Allahh didn't decree that it was to be him to to to you know to finish the job or to get the job done but to be um uh you know a stepping stone and to be the one putting you know bricks but not actually finishing the building you know uh Allahh decreed that would you know take on take on the role after him assume the role after him and didn't recognize that because um it was often the case that a visionary a visionary leader would um associate the the vision with himself and would um think that everything was writing on him because he had to do everything himself.

[00:02:56]While in fact the case was that was was a brilliant brilliant student to a brilliant teacher of a brilliant teacher and he had the same um you know he had the same ambitions as Nurin Mm in terms of aspiring to rule and in terms of also aspiring to expel the fir from the region. and Nurin was almost on his way to Egypt to expel a and you know the Aubits in general after he felt that they were breaking away um more or less from his dominion from his control with Egypt with resource rich Egypt and he wasn't willing to tolerate that uh in terms of his grander vision for the region but Allahh you know decreed that no would die before setting out and uh decreed that Salah would not be pictured as the the servant or the the commander who turned on against his u his his his uh his overlord.

[00:03:56]So uh with the death of Nuradin and King Amalik of Jerusalem within two months two months of each other uh that gave a huge breathing space for because now uh he was the only leader in the region having the means to consolidate his power and uh build a a united front. uh also the situation had gr had changed drastically. I think we uh referred to that earlier uh in our talk uh that uh instead of the event being the power base of Mahmud in Damascus trying to acquire Egypt bring it into the struggle and have it as a as a weapon against the fanch to surround them from the south.

[00:04:33]Um now and this was the the main difference in vision between uh and that Egypt was now uh the seat of power trying to unite the region to expel the fange from the region and um this would remain the case. Egypt would remain the citadel the citadel of although he never saw its finishing it would remain the seat of power of the region for more than three centuries. So um Salah ruled from Cairo started the Aubid dynasty from Cairo in 1174 and um the Mluks came after the Aubits and the Ottomans expelled the Mammoths from Egypt that was in 1517. So that's more than three centuries almost three and a half centuries. So for three and a half centuries uh Egypt was the anchor of the of the region. It was the main seat of power. It was the the the the power broker of the region. So it had the Levant and it had the hij it had parts of northern Iraq up to the Mongol invasion. Uh and it had probably some parts of modern day uh Libya. Uh and then when the Ottomans came, Egypt uh no longer became a power broker, but instead it was turned into a province which remained the case until the the the age of Muhammad Ali Basha uh or maybe a bit earlier than Muhammad Ali Basha when when the the Mluks again had some breathing space because Istanbul was weakened by the time and so the Mamluks had some breathing space. they could establish their own power base in in in Egypt and uh they could unseat some of the Ottoman governors until Muhammad Ali came and you know um he he finished them off in the famous uh massacre of the of the citizen. So uh what we're trying to say is that for a lot for a very long time Egypt was was was heavily invested in the in the interests of the region and anyone who wanted to to actually you know introduce a significant change in the region had to have Egypt uh one way or another.

[00:06:30]Now, uh it was not a picnic for Salah to to to re um to re uh introduce the Levant to to the power base or to the authority of Egypt to acquire the Levant essentially. Uh one because the remnants of the Zang house were still in control of three major strongholds uh namely Aleppo, Damascus and Mosul. Of course, two of those were Aleppo and Mosul, which were the the the the original axes of of of resistance, so to speak, established by Ahmed Zeni, right? Medini had this um what would you say this this dream of having one leg in Iraq another leg in Vadm and in order to to to affirm that and to to to have interest both in both regions Mosul and Aleppo acted as uh both flags in both regions right so these were dear strongholds for the zangitis that's the point that I'm trying to make right Damascus was of course the seat of power of Nadin Mahmood who after his father tried so hard to acquire it and eventually acquired it peacefully without spilling blood and that uh was also a very important possession of the Zangs.

[00:07:39]And also of course even in Egypt some Fatimid sympathizers were still conspiring with the Fange and the king of of Sicily Roger to revive Fatimate rule in Egypt. So when would um offer some excuses to Mhammmed before his death that things in Egypt weren't really stable. Of course we cannot um you know uh dismiss the fact that of course having had Egypt had ambitions of rule and ambitions of expanding the from the region and that was totally okay for anyone to to to be you know aspiring to to hold power. Uh but when he said that things weren't pretty stable in Egypt he meant it. So because we can see even after Mahmud's death we had a conspiracy by some remnants of the Fatimids all the way to Nefarange and all the way to Sicily you know Sicily far away Sicily in the mid Mediterranean. So uh things were weren't you know as stable as would have liked in Egypt. So uh was able to intercept the communication between the conspirators and he imprisoned the Egyptian faction of the conspiracy and when the Sicilian fleet landed in Alexandria was also able to counter their attack and that was the final attempt by anyone made at removing the Ayubid rule from Egypt right um now was succeeded by his 11-year-old son is court was uh divided into two factions one was of the opinion that was the most capable man in the region at the time and the other faction was of the opinion that Salah should recognize is as the heir to the Zanged house weak and young Isma might actually be. Now that second faction most probably wanted to make uh to take advantage of Isma's young age and inexperience because any objective assessment of the situation at a time would at least recognize Salah's ability, his military powers because he displayed military prowess during and after the taking of Egypt and the resources had at his hand which were the fact that he had had Egypt. Right now, Aleppo was the as we mentioned the earliest Zenit power base in that event.

[00:09:45]And so, is not even not even from the days of but from the days of his father.

[00:09:49]If our listeners will remember, you can refer to that in our earlier discussions. Right? So, Alo goes back in the Zangit power race. Right? So, when is went there upon the advice of the Zenit faction of his court, he wanted to strengthen his position and he left Damascus. Now, Damascus was a bit different. Why? Because father had very very strong ties to the dam schemes since his days there under Abak the last you know the last of the Bured dynasty which had been ruling in Damascus. So he was in secret service there of Nuradin actually. So he was installed by Nurim or informed by Nurin to go work in Damascus and try to you know conspire secretly against this this guy named Abak so that when Nurmud came at the gates of the city they would open the gate for him and give him the city peacefully. Right? So when Salah the son of Meshmikd Aub came to Damascus escorted only by around 700 knights uh they opened the gates and Damascus was now firmly under his control. Right.

[00:10:41]Aleppo was a different case. Aleppo was important for Salah to acquire because encircling the fange would not be possible if Aleppo was not securely under his control and more than once he did try to besiege Aleppo and one of the counter measures taken by is to seek the help of the assassins residing in that event. Now again I would remind our listeners that the assassins were a sect um branching off from the isi sect or the fat sect ruling Egypt. Um they believed in in in terrorizing uh people in order to achieve their political goals or to achieve their political ends. Uh terror meant that they could make or perform public hits, public executions against you know uh politically important targets. uh people couldn't really uh speak out loud against them because the very next day those people could actually end up dead.

[00:11:33]Uh that was not any sort of exagger exaggeration. People actually died. So you talked about the assassins one day then the very next day you'd be dead.

[00:11:41]You'd be uh stabbed in public and um sometimes the the the the assassin escaped, others they didn't they didn't really care. That's the main uh point. They were willing, you know, to sacrifice themselves in the process.

[00:11:56]So um one of the counter measures by ism was to um like uh uh contact the assassins residing in the event under the leadership of someone called Gabel, the sheh of the mountain or the elderman of the mountain, someone called Rashid Dinan. And of course Rashidan was more than happy to take out the man who ended Fimate rule in Egypt namely. So twice did the assassins attempt to assassinate Salah and it was only by the grace of Allah subhana wa tala that they failed.

[00:12:24]Sahadin was wearing heavy armor covering all parts or all important parts of his body, his neck, his chest, his abdomen, his head. And when you read the details of the attempts on his life by the assassins, you you you'd be surprised that Salah even survived the attempt, right? Surviving the attempt was was a miracle from Allahh. Because if they had succeeded like they had many many many times before, we would be telling a very very different story today. Right? So they were able to infiltrate the camp of his camp and to infiltrate his own guards and he would wake up sometimes finding them at the doors of his camp of his tent. So this these you know this this sect uh if anyone is familiar with the game Assassin's Creed this is exactly how they managed. They would be able to infiltrate. No one would know that they were infiltrating. Uh they had you know uh powerful stamina. They had they had they believed blindly in what they were doing. And that was where they uh that was where the their danger lied.

[00:13:24]So these attempts did have their effect on Aubi. They had the the intended effect of dissuading him from besieging Aleppo for the time being. So was furious that he had to you know break the siege of Aleppo and he wanted he laid siege to to the stronghold of the assassins of of the fort of Ms. Right. But again, he was threatened again by men that if he did not lift this siege, none of his none of his family members were safe. And to be honest, I don't know how attempted to do this because this was indeed very, you know, very dangerous to his family. So they told him that none of your is safe.

[00:14:02]So if you keep doing what you're doing, someone will end up dead. Someone dear to you will end up dead. And so Salah came to the to the conclusion that it was best to make, you know, a truce with the with the assassins. Now another contra by is that he would make alliances with the fange. Subhan Allah.

[00:14:18]You know Aleppo and Mosul they would both make alliances with the fang. Those two power strongholds of the zeneds you know those cities established by zeni.

[00:14:29]Time went on and a point in time came when they both made alliances with the fange. So subhan Allah the shortsidedness sightedness of these alliances uh would soon prove hazardous to the region because Rald dean the the the the thief the thief prince I don't I don't have any you know any other expression to to to name him with uh he was imprisoned until the time and he was released upon some of the terms of these alliances right and we will see uh soon enough we will see uh how he you know how that came to be now sahed was unable to take Mosul now he was unable to take Aleppo and he was unable to take Mosul again because first of all Mosul was in was impregnable. It was a rich city and we have to remember and I will have to remind our listeners and our speakers that it was Mosul the it was you know the launchpad the starting point whenever Assad Sultan wanted to interfere in the in the politics or in the power politics of the event he would order the Otabic or the prince or the the military commander of Mosul to uh raise an army and go to the Levant. So Mosul was very rich and impregnable, right? And it was logistically difficult for to to to acquire Mosul or to break Mosul uh because it was very far from his power base both in Damascus and in Cairo, right? And add to that the fact that they also made alliances like mentioned before they made alliances with the fange. So it was practically impossible for to acquire Mosi. Now attempted u or or yeah pursued a two-pronged uh policy. The first uh aspect of his policy was the military aspect and the second aspect of his policy was the diplomatic aspect. Right? He always made sure to inform the ambassador Khalifa of his moves and the motives behind those moves. Right? And even when he entered battles with the Zenits, he never went overboard after his victories against them. He would let them flee after they had lost in battle. And he would always offer turns and he would also gladly offer money in exchange for loyalty.

[00:16:31]Simply he didn't want the future front that he was building to crack. He didn't want you know people to be holding grudges against him and he could I think he was he was actively learning the lessons learning from the mistakes made by someone like Ahmed Zeni when he offered you know the surrender to the the the the garrison of Balbak then you know broke his promise to them. He he never made that was not that kind of person. He he he he was mainly peaceful and he didn't like violence very much, right? Even though he was the sultan of the Muslim. Um so he would also gladly offer money in exchange for loyalty and um he was the sort of man who knew how to make deals with anyone, right? Anyone would be happy to deal with him. He was very flexible. He didn't ask for much.

[00:17:15]He usually demand demanded the nominal overlordship for him, of course. And uh he he would also demand troops uh when necessary when he was going to war against for example and that was it.

[00:17:26]Okay. Add to that of course that he had a strong PR campaign taken directly from the textbook laid laid out by Mahmud as well as true altruism and hate for abundance and violence. Suffice it to say that he was more than happy to reside in the quarters dedicated to the vizier in Egypt and give the fat the extravagant fat palaces to his commanders. Even when he entered Damascus, he stayed in his father's house in a clear signal that he was not there to change his lifestyle. Obviously was unable to fight on more than one front at once and this of course meant treaties with the fange while cleaning house which sometimes of course damaged his image because he would be fighting fellow Muslims while making peace with the farrange. We have to remember that had not yet taken place and that the uh the Zen had in their court a historian called A and he they were they were his patrons and of course Ustad is is you know is the one who taught us how to make sure who you get your information from and what biases those people are under. Right? So was a a sweet he had a sweet tooth for the zangits because they were his patrons. And of course when he would write his history in the time of no matter what did he would always view Salah as a threat to the Muslim um as a usurper of the Zang power and etc etc etc. Now in the fangi camp things were in disarray. Why? Because Amadri had died two months after Mahmud and that meant that Salah was in a much better position regionally. Amal was succeeded by his son Baldwin the fourth who despite his personal courage and military prowess was a leper. Uh this deprived Jerusalem of an able king which it needed more than ever. As a result there were two factions in the Jerusalemite court. One faction headed by Raone of Tripoli the acting regent of the leper of the leper king wanted to make peace with Salah. the other faction which was heavily populated with European newcomers namely people who understood nothing in the power politics of the region and who would they were they were ignorant zealots to to say the least uh and that's me being polite and uh the the one who headed that faction was deion right uh who and this faction of course was in favor of direct confrontation within now Bulwin conducted some raids and sieges on the cities of Haram and Ham taking advantage of the conflicts between and is the son of Ned. So these traits cost the farrange a lot and when is threatened that he would call upon for help who had indeed marched out to meet the farrange the far were afraid and they retreated. Now Salah was not careful. He had actually marched out but he was not very careful and after initially gaining the upper hand against the ferange he had listened to his commander's advice to change formation during the march and uh the army scattered around to loot the ferrange.

[00:20:16]Now Baldwin took advantage of this situation and the tide soon turned against Salah in the unfortunate battle of Montisad. Now this was a tough lesson that Salah had learned and he barely escaped with his life back to Egypt. Now realized that even though he had a numerical advantage over or against the fange, a simple miscalculation could could result in a catastrophic outcome despite uh his numeric superiority against the uh yes, please go ahead.

[00:20:45]>> Yeah, before before you get into this part, I hope you can hear me inshallah.

[00:20:49]Uh I just wanted to just uh mention something really quickly here. One of the one of the best things about this book and you can really see it in this chapter, you can really see it in all of the chapters and if you put it all together, if you put each chapter together and the whole story together, one of the things that that we can learn from this, and again, one of the reasons why we're reing uh why we're reading this book is specifically to bring it up to the modern age, the lessons that you can take from that period of our history, uh bringing it up to the modern age so that we can improve our understanding and our reading and our evaluation and our analysis of the age that we're living in.

[00:21:22]uh one of the things that uh is highlighted to me in this particular section and as I say it's throughout the whole book but in this particular section is the context you have you have two you can you can sort of say you have two main uh factors you have the context and you have the characters right you have the actors and you have the context and what everything that you're talking about now for example uh Baldwin the leper uh the death of Amarik uh the death of obviously Nuradin Zengi and the fact that Nadine Zengi was was um uh that his heir was only 11 years old and you know he wasn't he wasn't like for example if he had been if he had been succeeded by a full-g grown man who had experience and was a different type of a person or um then you also add the context obviously with the fatimids and so forth and then the you know everything that you just said everything that you just talked about this is the context and the characters are Salahedin Baldwin and it will be Ronald uh and others. So in different periods of history you can see that you have for example uh sometimes the wrong context but the right characters and sometimes you have the wrong characters and the right context and sometimes you have the right context and the right characters for that context. In other words, the context in which they live in uh facilitates them uh uh actualizing what their character and what their their particular genius or their particular skill set uh uh enables them to do.

[00:22:57]Whereas there have been times in history, many many times in history and especially even throughout that this history of the crusades where you have sometimes the right character but the wrong context. In other words, the context does not allow for that particular figure in history to succeed to prevail uh against the the context against all of the the circumstances that they're in. There's nothing wrong with the individual. There's nothing wrong with that particular figure, but the context does not allow them to achieve. And I think that this this sort of touches upon what what I one of the things that I mentioned in that in the recent very long talk. uh and also I talked about it before when I was talking about uh like say Thomas Sankara or uh Nuruma or some of the other uh anti-colonial anti-imperialist leaders in Africa uh versus for example uh Ibrahim Troy right now in Bkin Apostle you had the right men you had the right characters but the wrong context the the uh and the same goes for the uh experiences of what I was talking about in the recent talk like with Black Wall Street uh uh Tulsa Oklahoma and so forth and Greenwood and Rosewood and so forth and all of and the Black Panthers. All of these efforts that were undertaken were undertaken and they were the right efforts and they were the right actors but it was the wrong context. The context does not allow them to succeed.

[00:24:12]The context does not allow them to prevail and what what's all coming together. Subhan Allah. Alhamdulillah what's all coming together for is the right context and the right characters at the right time. So uh just for our consideration when you're evaluating what the situation is uh in the world today we have our characters and we have our context and you have to see whether or not the characters match the context and the context matches the characters.

[00:24:34]That's all I wanted to add.

[00:24:36]>> Yes. Absolutely. Uh the fact that um it's not always the right time or place or sometimes it's not actually the right people. So it's um it's a bit of a puzzle. Everything has to come together in order for miracles, not miracles, but in order for, you know, uh leaps and bounds to be made. Everything has to come together. And us, you know, we Muslims especially, we have this uh concept of al means that you do what you can with what you have. You do your best and Allahh knows that you're doing your best and that's it. You we as Muslims, we do not um we should not judge by who succeeded and who didn't succeed because that's not up to us. Allah subhanaa tala didn't ask us to succeed. He only asked us to to do the effort. The rest is for him Allah subhanaa tala. And this is this could be actually a point made that if you are actually have your a pure intention a true intention of pleasing Allah subhana wa ta'ala you'll do the the deed no matter no matter you know if you you don't really care if it's going to succeed or not. Why? Because you're just doing your best. you're doing what Allahh ordered or commanded you to do. Not knowing if you're going to succeed or not. That's not the point. The point is that Allahh ordered you to do something and you know that you're not the credit is not going to be known. You may not even take it but you don't care nonetheless. You're doing it because Allahh ordered you to do so. So this is a very important distinction between which is you know uh doing your best and um doing good in dun no matter not caring whether or not it will be known or seen and success.

[00:26:17]Yes, absolutely. I would just I would just just just to continue on with what you're saying. There will be people inshallah on there will be people in Jenna who will have achieved uh uh greater success in the uh than uh even some of the people who succeeded in the dunya. So they they may have by all appearances failed or been defeated or so forth in the in the might actually have a greater success than people who have succeeded in this dunya.

[00:26:46]So just to just to uh sort of second what you're talking about like for example Nadine Nadine didn't get the win that he was aiming for that he was wanting but Allah knows best what his what his reward is going to be like uh in Jenna.

[00:27:02]Uh yes. To this day, by the way, uh many people don't know this, but in in Damascus to this day, many people when they refer to Nurmud, they call him Nurin Shahid, Nurin, the martyr.

[00:27:13]Although the man didn't die in battle or didn't die, you know, he wasn't killed by anyone, but he he had he died from illness, but the people of Damascus, even those who don't actually know who Mahmud is, but the man is referred to by the name Shahid. And uh also I want to remind our listeners of of Shahim Mud the earliest man to have tried to to face off the fange from the from Mosul and who was actually killed in Damascus by the assassins.

[00:27:42]This was a martyr. This was a true martyr but he he's not known by by by by by generations and even by later generations. Most people do not.

[00:27:53]Yeah. Everyone knows fewer people know. Even few would know Zeni. Almost no one knows Mud. And this was the man who was martyed Mud. This was the man who was who laid out the foundation to the struggle against the right. So you never know who actually Allahh will reward on on like like said.

[00:28:16]So just leave it at that and just do your best. That's all we can say in this in this point. Alhamdulillah. And alhamdulillah that Allahh you know treats us by doing our best not actually by succeeding otherwise you know you never know how you would end up. So alhamdulillah now um after the the the the the catastrophic defeat at Monisad 2 months later two months after that had recuperated and he started conducting raids against the philani possessions. Of course, we have to again make a point here. It is because of the fact that he had Egypt that he was able to recuperate in two months because Egypt was resourcerich.

[00:29:00]So when says that Egypt was and still is the anchor of of the region in many aspects, that's what we're talking about, right? Yes, >> I was just going to say I I think you you didn't really tell the story of Montas and the defeat there. I think you might have had more information about that and I might have caused you to skip over it.

[00:29:19]>> Did you have more like how did that happen? Why did it happen? What exactly was that? Can you explain for anyone who has who's not familiar with it?

[00:29:28]The the main um the main problem that took place was that uh the commanders of they were they got a bit you know arrogant when they faced off the fir uh due to the fact of their numerical superiority and they allowed their soldiers to to scatter around namely and uh loot or tried to loot the fange possessions and try to acquire you know food and that kind of thing. Right now the fir took notice took note uh of that and they started concentrating their attacks against all uh of not all sorry against the the part of the army which closely guarded and they had the numeric numerical superiority over that uh contingent of the army and they would they they almost killed right and he was barely able to escape to to Cairo back to Cairo and of course the the remaining the the remnants of of the the Muslim army. They were either, you know, captured or killed during battle. Now, Salahin did punish those commanders and uh he rebuilt the the army, you know, he had the coffers of Egypt at hand. So, he was able to rebuild the army. The the cavalry mainly because the the the the Muslims were mainly uh you know, knights and and that kind of thing. So, that was the main um the main event, the highlight of the battle. if you have any questions. But that's probably all I know about it. If you have any questions.

[00:30:54]>> No, I just I just I I felt that because I interrupted you and you were just beginning to tell the story and I interrupted you. So, I was afraid that you might have skipped a bit and I appreciate the uh giving the additional information because I think there is there's obviously a lesson that we can learn from from that from what happened and and it is a lesson it's a lesson that we already learned from.

[00:31:13]So this is something that the Muslims should already know uh which is that maintaining discipline uh while you are approaching victory is maybe the most important time to maintain discipline uh and to not get uh overly um confident or overly excited to where you lose your discipline and and understand that the battle isn't over until it's actually over and that just because you're you're maybe having a winning streak or you you seem to be on the rise like for example again to bring it to the modern age we see any signs of success uh in the Muslim world.

[00:31:46]Alhamdulillah. And everything that we've been talking about for the last 3 years with regards to, for example, the regional transition, all of that is moving forward. All of that is moving uh and progressing towards uh a very potentially prosperous and successful and stable future that Muslims have been dreaming of for generations, but we haven't achieved it yet. And you have to maintain that patience. You have to maintain that discipline uh even while uh you you know the almost it's almost as if the closer the victory comes to you the more important it is to maintain your discipline and maintain your self-control maintain your restraint stay on plan uh stay on the agenda uh stay on the strategy uh and and keep your patience and self-control and don't become overly excited and then everybody tries to get whatever they can get out of it uh you know at at the last minute and then you you steal uh of uh defeat from the jaws of victory. So that's I just wanted to to add that because that I think that it's a lesson that we've been taught before and we were taught it even as I say in the Sierra uh that that um when you when you drop out of the ranks when you when you when you forget the plan when you forget your discipline you forget the strategy because you see that you're winning uh this is the this is the most crucial time uh when you might end up uh actually achieving only defeat. You have to you have to stay on your strategy, stay on your discipline uh all the way until the end.

[00:33:10]And that's when it becomes the hardest.

[00:33:12]When you when you're getting the closest to victory, it becomes the hardest to stay focused and to stay disciplined and to stay humble. There's a there's a humility that's required for you to stay disciplined because you see yourself winning, but you're still not the winner yet. You still didn't achieve yet. Uh but you feel that it's so close that you can you can start to loosen up and you start to relax. And uh that's the most crucial time for you to not relax. It's almost like boxing mustad I would say.

[00:33:36]So when one someone feels like he's you know he's he's gaining the upper hand in the ring and he starts you know to loosen up and try to to gloat about that's when the the their opponent would you know deal them give them some some upper hook or something and you know knock knock them out would you say?

[00:33:53]>> Uh yeah sure of course. I mean you because I mean especially I mean it's the same I suppose if you're talking about war uh as if you're talking about uh one-on-one combat which is that your skill set and the other person's skill set even sometimes their weight class versus your weight class their experience versus your experience uh all of those are metrics that you can consider but a wellplaced strike at the right time or the wrong time could end the fight. It can always go either way.

[00:34:21]it can always go uh one way or the other no matter how it seems. So yes, you actually have to stay you you do absolutely have to stay on the strategy uh in a fight and you know unless you're young Mike Tyson and the fight lasts for 30 seconds.

[00:34:34]>> Yes, of course.

[00:34:36]>> Okay. So that I think was was an important lesson uh that we have to take note of. Now um back to the to the the after events was that um we mentioned that two months later Salahi had recuperated. That would not have been the case or that would not have been possible had Salah not had Egypt in his possession because Egypt was resourcerich and um it was whoever held Egypt had access to to you know the the the resources of the Nile the resources of the land even the the the the manpower. So that gave them the ability to to rebuild their army the way that Aubi did within two months. And he set out started conducting raids, started conducting maybe um uh campaigns against the possessions. This time when Baldwin the 4th went out to meet him in minor battles, he lost them and he barely escaped with his life. Uh some important forts were captured and soon Bulwin asked a for a truce. Now Ronald Shhat the owner of the fort of Karak or Kak in Arabic in modern day Jordan and at the juncture point between Egypt and the revant. So he had a very very dangerous possession at his control uh both logistically and um you know um because he had the fort so it was impregnable and it was at a very important uh location. So uh he was not under the total control of Jerusalem and he repeatedly raided the Muslim caravans despite sometimes because of the treaties concluded between Jerusalem and now was so preposterous as to attempt to pirate the Red Sea again because he had access to the Red Sea and he even tried to attack the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam Medina or city. It was becoming more apparent every day just how critical the fortress of Carrick had been at the junction between Egypt and the Levant. Uh the man had access to the Red Sea. He could easily wreck havoc in the Hijaz and he could reach out to the kingdom of Axium modern day Ethiopia who tried to raid the ports of Yemeni ordered his brother Abu Bakr his deputy of Egypt to immediately intercept the FanJ ships. uh his mission was a success. Although Ronald escaped the fir or some firanchi soldiers were captured and sent to Mecca where they were summarily executed during the time of Hajj. So as a result swore that would be killed by his own hands because again time and time again and may expand on that later inshallah would prove that they had no limits in their barbarity.

[00:37:19]They just had no limits, right? There were no red lines. There's there was nothing that they would not do. Like why would you attack Hij and Medina? I mean, what sort of what sort of resources were you hoping to achieve there? Hijaz had long lost its, you know, its its its position as a power base for the Muslims.

[00:37:38]It had been three centuries or four centuries. Most resources were available in Iraq, in the Sham or in Egypt. So if you wanted to take any any province, you would take those. But why would you attack Medina? For what reason? Other than that you are were back and that was it.

[00:37:55]So, Subhan Allah.

[00:37:58]Now, uh as a response to to to those attacks made by Ronald besieged Renald's fortress of Karak in 1183 and again after all that he displayed unrivaled chivalry when he was informed that a wedding was taking place in the fortress. And so he ordered his men not to bombard the tower where the wedding was taking place. It was the arrival of Baldwin on a stretcher that forced Salahui to retreat because he didn't want to get caught between Reynold and Baldwin. And so Salah he retreated again in 1184. He tried to take the fortress but it was an almost an impossible task because the fortress was impregnable and uh Jerusalem would always come to to the aid of Carrick.

[00:38:41]Baldwin's sister Seilla got married to an upstart prince coming from Europe called Gul and it appears that Baldwin was not quite happy with this marriage and tried to anal it because he realized that Gee was not fit to be a king in case of the former's death. So the two men remained in open in open conflict until Bulwin died and Bulwin the fourth died after a long struggle with leprosy and the problem of the succession was difficult to tackle especially since son Bulwin the 5th was also diagnosed with leprosy and died within a year of succeeding his uncle. So it was determined that D was to be the king of Jerusalem. Now with is the son of M with his death Aleppo was acquired by finally and the Zangit in Mosul finally realizing that resisting's rise to power was futile. They submitted and they pledged allegiance to him and the internal conflicts in Jerusalem had reached a point when Raman of Tripoli had asked for Salah Aub's aid against his enemies in the court of Jerusalem.

[00:39:39]Of course, was more than happy to intervene in the struggle for power and he even sent troops to aid Ramon the feared the worst and because he was facing family problems in Egypt over who was to be his deputy in Egypt and there were problems with his nephew because you know family is family so who who doesn't have problems in the family.

[00:40:01]So when when the fange asked him for a four-year truce, he agreed because he wanted to settle some internal conflicts in his camp.

[00:40:10]In 1186, Ronald ever so hungry for the wealth he saw traveling in car caravans across his lands between Egypt and the Levant. So he decided to raid one of those caravans and kill escorts.

[00:40:22]And again, Salah and Aub condemned this incident and sent to both Ronald and D demanding reparations. None of his demands of course was were met and the fange were almost begging to go to war within au and the request was met. First renewed and strengthened his alliance with remand to deal a blow into the fangi camp. Then he agreed to a truce with Bowman of Antioch which enabled him to cover his rear when he was attacking Jerusalem from the north. And finally in in 1887 we felt confident enough to declare war on Jerusalem. Um so a few things that stood out for me in this chapter. I really enjoyed it. Uh number one for me was um how trade continued normally between um the different cities despite war. Um you know today this would be deemed unacceptable. Any kind of relations with the occupying power or the enemy is basically a no-go, right?

[00:41:18]Like today it's either all out war or or nothing at all. You know, you're not even allowed to have any kind of diplomacy or any kind of relations or trade or any kind of that. But like we see subhan Allah at the time um trade flowed normally. Muslims would uh even you know pay Christians pay attacks when they passed through Christian land and Christians would pay tax when they pass through Muslim land. And you know like I like I liked how the the author said um you know the men of war were at war but you know the people were at peace. The people themselves just you know life was going on uh as normal.

[00:41:50]Um another thing Malu likes to portray um Salah at least in the beginning as a circumstances favored him basically said oh he had really good things happened to him one after the other um even though he was reluctant to go to Egypt in the beginning uh and I'm reminded of uh Allah when he was uh telling do not ask for a position of leadership for if you receive it due to asking you will be left alone with it but if you receive without asking then you know Allah will a late you and subhan Allah you know uh this is clearly it's obvious to us that this is um divine intervention Allah is paving the way for him to uh achieve his goal um and while he is navigating all these geopolitical circumstances he is navigating another layer which is all these labels that are being slapped on him uh like serer traitor etc etc etc and how even Nurin's son um used the people's sympathy towards Nordine to rally uh against Salahedin. Uh I'm reminded when Shade said in the discussion group Salah is lucky he didn't have podcast during his time like you can imagine we are reading about it so it must have been very very wide stream uh mainstream and widespread um until he achieved the the victory that well nobody thought he would. Yeah, these are some excellent points actually on the Rahman. Uh first first off the fact that um you should never ever ask for position of power because then uh you will be actually youasool says that Allah will not you know aid you uh in that case and uh but when you are given that position of power Allahh will will be at your aid. So this is an important Islamic principle that we have in our Islamic civilization and in our Islamic literature. And the other important point made was the fact that uh trade was normally ongoing and that it had to have some sort of mad dog like Ronald to disrupt this this flow even though people were perfectly willing to try to coexist. But this man was was he didn't want any of it and he was just you know a dog without a leash to to to say the least.

[00:44:07]And uh peace was was something that this man could not envision or imagine at all. Um uh I also want to apologize to our listeners because I seem to have spelled it uh 1887. Uh Salah declared war in Jerusalem in 1187. Uh otherwise we'd be telling a very different story.

[00:44:25]So apologies for that. Yes, sisters please.

[00:44:30]>> Allayum everyone. Um just wanted to say about um you know I was thinking uh just now while you were uh telling us the story that uh what came to my mind is the timing. So subhan Allah we might think right now like uh what happened to why would someone trigger the most um like someone like Salah uh to declare a war on them? And the trigger was obviously the the fact that this guy this crazy mad dog uh Rammon u went after um the Muslims he went to uh Medina basically to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam's grave and that triggered all this uh of course things have but that was the time when he declared he that was the line that he crossed uh it was a line that uh they crossed and so it felt to me that Uh he maybe Salahaden was going to have prolonged it but Allah subhanana wa ta'ala triggered him to start this war with this French. It now is the time.

[00:45:34]Now is your time. You have to uh get all the way like go after them. No more uh uh uh the you know the allegiances, no more um sorry the covenants, no more all this. Now they they they just crossed the red line. Now is your time. And uh I think it was like the timing was just it came all uh together the perfect timing.

[00:45:58]Uh that just really fascinated me.

[00:46:00]Subhan Allah. how Allah makes if I were on Salah well I couldn't be but if I were in Salahadin's position it would have been very hard for me to uh to find the time or to say I would have prolonged it if the crusaders or the you know the kingdom in Jerusalem would prolong it through the the treaties that they had and all this until I would say let me clean this uh my house first until you know you will not know the exact time but uh this incident of this guy uh which still buffles everyone that triggered all this is amazing. It's like Allah is telling him now is your time.

[00:46:38]Subhan Allah. That's all I wanted to say.

[00:46:41]>> Uh thank you sister Samir for that. Uh yeah because uh I think one when when in position of power they they never really know uh when exactly is the right time right when when when exactly they're completely perfectly ready to to to uh to make an offensive uh against uh the enemy and all out so to speak right and one could say when reading's biography that he would be always on the lookout because he was always afraid that when if he wanted to to go to war against the fanch then someone in the Muslim camp would you know probably come and attack from behind or something and he wanted to make sure completely sure that his camp you know when when we say the word clean house that the house was indeed clean and that no one would you know stab him in the back or that an alliance would be made or something like that right but I think that actually did the Muslim a favor when he attacked the because then no No one would be um welcomed when in a position of making an alliance with the fange or making or conducting a treaty or making a truce with the Fanch, right? Not the Zangits, not the uh the Articates in in, you know, in northern Iraq. No one no one would be willing to make an alliance with the fage without being you know um having a negative PR campaign conducted against their own you know against their own house their own doul because you would be aligned with someone who attacked our holy cities. So, subhan Allah, perhaps this was the uh, you know, was the catalyst that was needed in order for everyone so that when would go to to anyone and tell them, I need you to be on my camp. I'm not going to uninstall you from your seat of power, but I need you to be on my camp because I'm going to war with these guys. They cannot stay in our lands for after what they've did and after what they're doing to us and to our caravans, to our trade, to our holy places, to our holy cities.

[00:48:38]They cannot exist here without, you know, dealing damage to us in any way, shape, or form. So I think that was the the the catalyst that you know got the ball rolling into uh brother Shereim you have anything to add?

[00:48:54]>> You know the subhan allah the last major attack right against Makkah was Abra right and look how it ended. uh subhan Allah you know as you mentioned these uh like we don't see it at the point in time I was just uh like a week ago I shared something in the collective reflections because I was looking at the surah field right it's pretty amazing because like imagine you know this gave the Quraysh right who were you know residing in Mecca this uh divine view right like suddenly people from all over Arabia they saw this attack on you know the army of Abra who wanted to attack Mecca right and maz haram and suddenly they view them as divinely protected right so due to this attack right as you now mentioned for example that this was the first step in the battle of this that this was why then had this freedom of moving you know in the summer to Syria and in the winter to Yemen and this was right this journey of winter and summer this is what allowed right to become you know the trustworthy want to be in business to meet all of these steps, right? Just because some guy, you know, from Habash or from Ethiopia decided he will attack, right?

[00:50:13]So, Subhan Allah, you know, if you attack Makkah, like it will always lead to subhan Allah some beautiful developments further down the line, right? Uh I just thought it's a similar like it led, you know, in that time, right, to the emergence of Islam, subhan Allah, and here to the, you know, conquering, right, of this French army.

[00:50:33]So yeah, this is just the only thing that now came to mind when you were speaking about it because uh we do not understand the things happening at the specific point but when you look you know behind over the course of 300 400 500 years you suddenly ah this is why this happened right and like of course you know these are all signs for us but we need to reflect on these events right not just take it as some history lesson and just assume like yeah this guy was smart this guy wasn't smart but really try to look at this thread right that is going through these whole events and connecting Um, yeah. Subhan Allah. I just think it's amazing how everything is working out as it should, right?

[00:51:08]Always. Subhan Allah.

[00:51:10]>> I mean, Subhan Allah. I feel like if you were, you know how sometimes uh in films or in novels, they'll write a kind of a like an allegory or a I don't know what's the right word. Uh like a metaphorical story where this represents that and so on. Like for example, 1984, George Orwell's novel 1984. A lot of people don't know that that book isn't about the future. That book was, he wrote that book actually about the UK at the time where he lived. It was a sort of an allegory in science fiction of how he saw the conditions in the UK at the time that he was existing, the time he was living in. Um, I feel like if the Crusades, if this book and the history of the Crusades was a novel, it would be a novel about right now. It would be a novel about the period that we're living through right now. Because you can see like a Reynold I was I was saying it in the chat. Reynold is like the archetype of the West. He's the West embodied in the same way that Trump is America embodied and the Trump administration is the essence. You're talking about the quintessence of this culture is embodied in someone like Reynold and it is embodied in someone like Trump or his whole administration. uh the the the the sheer uh primitiveness and buffoonery and and arrogance and obnoxiousness and aggression and hostility and lawlessness is all embodied in these people. I mean you look at someone like Renaol and he was what he was in he was in prison for like 16 years and it didn't make a dent on his personality. He didn't learn anything. He he came out exactly like he went in. still a renegade criminal, thug, uh, thief, plunderer. He he didn't change in any way whatsoever because this is the nature of the man. He he and and this is the nature of the west. This is the nature of their culture and it is just embodied in its quintessence in someone like Reynold or in someone like Trump or his administration.

[00:53:05]And whenever things just become like basically as they say mask off when when all of the masks and all of the sort of pleasantries and nicities and diplomacy and what have you. When all of that fades away, you get down to the essence of the man or of the culture. And uh uh a character like Reynold uh as I say is is the west incarnate.

[00:53:25]He's Europe at that time incarnate. Uh and and uh Trump and his administration is America incarnate. everything that that culture is in its essence. Forget about what their rhetoric is. Forget about what they talk about.

[00:53:39]That's what America is in in human form is what this person is. And the same was the case with Renaald. And to one extent or another, you can say at that time Salah is the archetype of a Muslim. He has integrity. He's decent. He's actually very peaceful person. As you said, he's a his instinct was nonviolent. Even though he's famous as a warrior and as a general and as a a military leader, his instinct is is nonviolent. And that's the case with all of us. That's the case with Islam itself. Our our instinct is always nonviolent. Our instinct is always peaceful. It's always trying to be reasonable. But when you're coming across someone like a Ronald or you're coming across a culture like the West, which is and Reald was uh predatory to the bone in, you know, to the marrow of his bones. This is a predator.

[00:54:29]Uh, and he doesn't have any long view.

[00:54:31]He doesn't have any long-term strategy.

[00:54:33]He's just looking for the next thing that he can nick. He's just looking for the next thing that he can steal. He's looking for the next thing that he can take. He's looking for the next thing that he can loot and plunder. Uh, and that's what the culture is like. So, as I say, he's like the embodiment of that.

[00:54:46]and and Salah uh with his integrity with his sincerity with his im with his humility, with his peacefulness. I mean, as you were you were talking about before, how how simply he lived. He wasn't looking for palaces. He wasn't looking for wealth. He hated abundance and violence. Uh this is Islam. This is this is he's embodying Islam as hopefully inshallah we all try to do. We all try to be embodiment of Islam as best as we can. uh and when you come up when you come up with someone or you come against someone or even if you're trying to ally with someone ally with someone like a reol you must understand and I think Europe for example is starting to understand that you can't you can't ally with people who are exclusively self-interested exclusively self-interested in their own material gain this puts you at odds with everyone else's interest on earth you have no shared interest you are exclusively selfish, exclusively greedy for your own uh benefit, for your own enrichment.

[00:55:48]It's impossible to be an ally with someone like that. You will always be adversarial with someone like that. They will always be an opponent to you, even if you have any sort of an agreement with them. They're always going to be looking for some kind of way to break that agreement. They're always going to be looking for some kind of way to to break that treaty. Uh or even they won't even be looking for a way. They just won't even take the treaty seriously to begin with, which is obviously what America has always done. Uh so again it's just like when you read this history you can superimpose it on 2026 you can superimpose it on the last uh the you can you can superimpose that 100 sound uh uh 200 year period on the last 100 200 years of our umah today in this in this modern era and it's basically the same story the same archetypes whether you're whether you're talking about actual individual characters actual individual actors or you're talking about just uh uh cultures and and and uh movements, governments, and so forth. It's the same story that's that's playing out. It's essentially the same story that's playing out. And, uh, the fact that the the appearance of someone like Reynold, who is just bold-faced, bald-faced, aggressive, hostile, mad dog type of a personality, uh, with no respect for anyone else, uh, just completely out for himself. uh the fact that that person emerged just prior to the victory of the Muslims uh and now you superimpose that or you you juxtapose that with today and who has emerged in this day who has all of those same qualities and to me that uh is like a foretelling of the victory of the Muslims uh in this same period inshallah.

[00:57:27]Yeah, just to add to to to what the stat is saying and I mean an example of how was not you know he he wasn't acting he wasn't trying to fool anyone when he when he deposed the fatids from the rule of Egypt. Usually when when when when a regime is trying to replace a regime, especially in that era, uh one of the necessary things is to to to kill off or finish off the the the the ruling family of that regime, right? Uh but we find not, you know, not committing a massacre against the fats. All he did was separate the men from the women. He kept them in house arrest which was more than they could have hoped for uh given that they were you know um a past dynasty of Egypt. They were fed, they were clothed, they were not humiliated humiliated and that was it. He didn't you know he didn't how many times would you read in history that someone would replace a dynasty would replace a dynasty without finishing it off. It's very rare but really really was not into violence. It was it just wasn't in him to to to to commit, you know, to to to kill people aimlessly, which is not something that could be said uh in favor of the fange.

[00:58:42]You would find many, you know, um kings and princes and what have you in Europe and in the Middle East, in the in the states, they would kill just for the pleasure of it or to to install terror into their subjects. But he never did that ever. He never felt that killing or terrorizing people was necessary in order for him to achieve his goals. He was perfectly fine with, you know, trying to to to make a deal with with those uh he was he was, you know, facing off against.

[00:59:16]>> Yeah, just a quick note because brother Kar mentioned um I find a striking similarity between how Egypt is presented in the time of Yusfam.

[00:59:25]um sort of the problem is presented as an administrative problem that required a competent and a trustworthy person. um so I just found that similarity interesting. I want to share.

[00:59:42]Yeah, excellent point that uh um I hope the listeners aren't you know uh accusing us of being you know uh Egyptoentric or anything like that but as we said before and as Gustaf himself said before Egypt is very important in the region and u even in the race between Murdm and the Malik it was more than once explained by that a weakened state but a vital state nonetheless like Egypt cannot remain in that position cannot remain in a position where it's not adding value to any side, it will be taken by someone and it will be used by that someone, right? So, we have to jump in before anyone else and have it. Egypt is that kind of state and even I think a modern corollery was made of Sudan, right? Because Sudan is resource rich just like Egypt is resource rich or was resource rich. So um in the right hands and I think this goes back again to the point made uh I think midway during the the the conversation which is that right people at the right time or the right context. So that applies also to uh people administering administrating provinces right the the same province can be administered in two very different ways and and cause you know opposite outcomes just as we saw with with Egypt at the end of the fat rule.

[01:01:00]It was not able to you know add or make any addition or any to make to affect the situation in the event in any way shape or form. But as soon as it became under control of the Aubid family after him looks after them for three and a half centuries, Egypt it was the seat of power of a powerful state no matter be it a yubid or a muk I mean and it was able to um to to to be a a major power broker in the region right that same Egypt that was not able to defend itself during the last days of the Ottomans. So subhan Allah u you know people of administration the right administration is just as important as right military uh campaigns. Yes, please.

[01:01:46]>> Yes. I was just going to say you you use the term uh power broker uh about Egypt being a power broker in the region. And I'm I'm I had to step away for a moment so I missed some of the conversation.

[01:01:57]But I would just say that um when you have power and you are using that power in service to yourself and in service to for example the accumulation of wealth uh which is primarily what uh had been done before and by what we've seen numerous leaders do we have to admit on both sides whether you're talking about uh Muslims or about kufur generally speaking kufur this is what they do uh just to accumulate wealth and and they don't make a distinction between wealth and power they see power as an instrument for the accumulation of wealth. Uh we have seen obviously Muslims also fall into this um this mistake. Uh but you you you will never be a power broker if this is how you're using your power. If your power is is in service exclusively to your own self-interest if it's only uh being used for the purpose of wealth accumulation, you're never going to be a power broker.

[01:02:49]Um and if your wealth is just amassed and you don't use your wealth in service to the expansion of your power um because you wouldn't be doing that except for the purpose of accumulation of wealth. So it all comes down to the same thing. The power and the wealth have to be used as instruments in service to a particular strategy or particular agenda. And now the truth of the matter is obviously that that agenda can either be a good one or a bad one.

[01:03:16]It can be an agenda for uh for what is right, for what is righteous or and for what is evil.

[01:03:22]And we've seen, for example, in in the Muslim world, the uh like the GCC countries, for example, they've been wealthy for a long time. It it's been quite a while now since they've been wealthy. I mean, there was never a time in my life growing up when we didn't know that Saudi Arabia was a rich country uh or that the that the Gulf States were rich countries. They were known for being rich. Uh and whenever we would see like for example they would send their students over to the US we would see them driving the fanciest most expensive cars and uh uh you know spending a lot of money and so forth and they got a reputation for that. So they've been rich for a long time but they weren't power brokers uh until very recently until very recently. Uh and now they are power brokers. The UAE and Saudi Arabia and these are power brokers. These are the these are uh easily uh I mean easily in terms of when you make a comparison they didn't achieve it easily but they are easily the most powerful power brokers in the region and their uh their power is uh primarily because of their wealth also obviously to one extent or another because of their geopolitical position and obviously because for Saudi Arabia their position in the dean because of Makkah and Medina and the history uh but they've never been uh power brokers until very recently because they have they have decided they've made a conscious deliberate decision to use their wealth and to use whatever power they have as a result of their wealth for a strategy for an agenda for a program for a project uh that's bigger than them. Uh and this is like what Salahedin did with Egypt. He could have done the same thing that others have done and just enjoyed the the wealth of Egypt and just lived a high life. But as you say, this was not his character. He he wasn't you know like when as you said when he didn't obliterate the fatids uh and when ultimately he was even uh forgiving uh or magnanimous I should say towards not forgiving but magnanimous towards the crusaders and didn't slaughter them to the last man.

[01:05:22]Uh this is his character. These were not you know I think it's it it may be misrepresented sometimes as strictly pragmatic or political diplomatic decisions that he was making but no this was the man's character. This was based on his iman. This was based on who he was as a human being and as a Muslim. Um and that's why he used the power that he accumulated the way he did. And that's also what makes it different uh when someone like like him has power ambitions because as we talked about in the last uh episode and as we talked a little bit in this episode, of course had power ambitions once he had the position that he had. Now now you have the role. The role that you didn't necessarily seek, but now you have the role. Now you see yourself accumulating power or collecting power, gaining power. Uh and now you see because of the kind of a man you are, you see what you can potentially achieve with that power.

[01:06:12]So you want to accumulate more. You want to collect more. You want to cultivate more. Uh not for the sake of the power, not for the sake of the wealth, but for the sake of the agenda, for the sake of the project that you're working on. Um so this is this is what makes makes all the difference. And this is one of the reasons why again uh not to belver the the same point but this is one of the reasons why uh the west has has been able to maintain their power for uh historically speaking a very short period of time and they're already in decline because it's exclusively self-interested. is exclusively for the purpose of of wealth accumulation, power accumulation or the purpose of wealth accumulation without any real uh actual you know even even their global influence over the last 100 200 whatever years whether you're talking about European colonial colonial influence or American imperial influence uh which is quite short uh but they made up for the for the brevity of their global reign and the severity of their global reign uh all of that all of that was for the purpose of extraction of wealth. It's an incredibly shallow purpose. They have no real you know no real uh vision behind that. No real nothing really that they wanted to achieve except for extraction of resources and accumulation of wealth.

[01:07:34]This this cannot be sustained for a long period of time. Uh and so you know again just just bringing up some of the lessons from from this history to the modern day. uh and you talk about how Egypt was one kind of way under a certain type of rule and then it was a completely different uh and a much more substantial a much much more impactful way in the region under Salah or under the uh and this is the the the whole difference comes down to the to the character and the vision of the person who's running it and what how they view the function of power and the function of wealth or whether or not they see power and wealth as being either the same thing or They're supposed to just be in service to each other and never in service to something higher. Yeah, if I can add to that or of course as wellad um I I hope any of our listeners or sorry any of our speakers or are familiar with someone called now Khalif he was a man of the what they called the regime right a man in service of the fatimus right he was a sun but he is the service of the fatimus but this was a man whose talents were noticed by and he became his vazier Right? And this man, it is said and narrated in many of the biographies of Salah that he he he never took a decision or made a decision without first going back to a father. Um this was a high ranking official in the court of Aubi and Salah trusted him to the point that he would sometimes go to the event many times he would go to the event and leave Egypt under the control of so that's how trustworthy the man was and this was a man from the days of the Fatimus. That's the point I'm trying to make. Why? Because this man showed that he was also willing to serve the ummah under the right man. Right? He knew or understood that the Fotists were not uh well equipped and that the vazers of the Fotists were not well equipped to make the drastic changes needed if Egypt was in or under the rule of an able man.

[01:09:36]Right? They were not that able man. The Fates or with their visitors, right?

[01:09:41]Was that kind of man? And so immediately Salah noticed the man, the man noticed Salah. They both worked together in in perfect harmony and would always always say and this is I think something that we also can expand on a bit the the the the aspect of wise rule. So had a very very very um you know beautiful phrase.

[01:10:03]He said that it's not by my sword that I have opened uh different cities. It's by the pencil of meaning that wrote messages to he wrote messages to those rulers of those cities trying to buy them into or trying to to to to you know get them into the campaign of without spilling blood. Again, the man is not one to spill blood needlessly or aimlessly or for or just for the sake of spilling blood. He was perfectly fine with giving money to people in order to buy them off to join him in his campaign or in his camp. This is not a man who is willing to to just, you know, strike whoever said no. He would sit down with him, tell him what do you want to join my camp, he would say, I want this and that. Done. You will join my army. When I need troops, you will provide those troops and you will just acknowledge me as a nominal overlord. You can do whatever you want with your city. But when I ask for your help, you will come and help me. This is the work of someone like with the help of someone like father. It was even narrated that would sometimes intervene in disputes between the the nephew was trying to break off from the from the from you know cloak to so to speak was a a larger than than he was a very large figure. So a lot of people could have you know felt envy against him even from his family. Right? So one of those was probably he wanted to break off and go to BA in Libya and try to establish some sort of principality there or something. And it was because of his intervention that this prince was dissuaded from this you know from this uh pursuit. He told him you are your uncle's nephew. You cannot leave your uncle right now at this important time.

[01:11:47]And the man was dissuaded. So this is the power of of someone as wise as a father and this is the power of wise rule. I cannot stress it enough. So if can you know just add some thoughts to that and we can wrap up inshallah.

[01:11:59]>> Well I would say I would say that that um there's a huge difference between how different different cultures define victory and uh there's one that's sane and one that is insane. And obviously you know which one is which and which I'm referring to. For us, victory means uh an end of oppression, an end of violence, an end of war, an end an end of turmoil and stability. You know, the establishment of stability, peace, and safety and prosperity. Uh and whatever uh whatever can can achieve that, we're in favor of this. We're in favor of whatever will end conflict and turmoil and strife, we're in favor of that. To us, that's what victory looks like.

[01:12:47]Victory does not mean the elimination, the complete obliteration of the enemy.

[01:12:53]The the the point is to just be safe. Uh and if that means that we have to pay you off, if that means that we have to buy you off to uh satisfy you in one way or another just so that you stop making trouble, that's a victory for us. We're not interested in uh decimating the enemy, obliterating the enemy, bombing you back to the stone age and what have you. We're not trying to prove anything about our strength and about our power and about our destructive capacity. But for the western culture, they have a completely different definition of victory, which is complete domination.

[01:13:27]This is their definition of victory.

[01:13:29]Complete domination and the complete decimation of their what they regard as their enemy or their challenger.

[01:13:36]uh this is not a people that can that you can coexist with. uh if you can if you can if you can buy them off if you can pay them off uh if you can by one way or another um you know hold them at bay because again like I say their their interests their actual motivations are incredibly shallow and if you know what those motivations are and you don't mind as I say paying them off just like Salah would pay them off sometimes and Muslim rulers throughout this period would do that sometimes uh and as I think the uh the Muslims in the GCC and other parts of the world uh are doing now with the a national OCG. As I say, letting them wet their beak a little bit, letting them have some kind of a cut, letting them have some kind of a share so that you can get yourself out of the corridor of uh permissible violence, permissible aggression. That's a victory for us. Um it's it just comes down to basically whether you have a sane or an insane view of what victory constitutes and what your uh you know having a normal human moral uh value system about coexisting with other human beings uh and trying to uh dissipate or quell violence and conflict and uh unnecessary uh turmoil in your society. Uh for us again this is this is victory to us. As long as we have stability, as long as we have safety, as long as we have uh prosperity, as long as we have sovereignty, that's enough for us. We don't need to to take over the world. We don't need to to uh obliterate and humiliate anyone.

[01:15:09]We're not interested in that. That's not even that's not in our character. That's not in our dean. That's not what we've been taught victory looks like. Uh so it it it comes down to this very different uh understanding of of what what victory looks like and how uh what the outcome of a conflict should how how it should be shaped. What the outcome of of a conflict should be for us. The outcome of conflict should be peaceful coexistence not obliteration uh of the other side.

[01:15:37]>> Yes. Alhamdulillah. Well said. We're very well said.

[01:15:41]All right. So um I think uh we're done.

[01:15:45]Uh all of our speakers alhamdulillah have uh made generous contributions. I would like to thank them all for the time and the effort and uh to thank also our listeners for u you know holding up with us for such a long time and uh inshallah we will resume u in two weeks time. Uh uh next is the battle of so uh an epic moment in Muslim history.

[01:16:16]Uh and so inshallah we'll try to to give it its due and to give it the amount of of attention it needs because I'm sure there are many lessons to be learned inshallah from from the battle of and after the battle of and uh we're still you know there's still a lot to tell in the story of the in the event and how lessons can be uh drawn from that. So stay tuned inshallah. And with that I would like to say and see you later inshallah.

[01:16:50]Thank you again for a wonderful job posting as always.