Galathea Bay, A&N & Malacca Straits - New Control Points? • #TheGunnersSight 📱

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:05]Deep sea secrets, deadly ambush. Two agents, two nations, zero margin for error. Operation Bosmasur.

[00:00:24]Namaskar. Hello and welcome to P Guru's channel. today's episode of the gunner site with our full team present. Let's welcome General Shanka, General Shukla, General Ayar. Namaskarum sir, how are you?

[00:00:36]>> Namaskar. Fine, thank you. All of us are in good mood.

[00:00:41]>> So this is IPL times. Uh the viewership is falling. I'm very pleased to know that and uh for a different reason. But let's start now with General Ayar. He has a presentation about this because we are seeing now that uh you know waterways that are supposed to be for use for everyone is now being monetized perhaps even weaponized. Over to you sir uh we'll look forward to hearing from you your perspective on these these three areas now.

[00:01:10]>> Okay. Thank you and good evening to all of your viewers. uh very interesting topic. I've been reading it over a period of time and uh uh it goes back almost two decades when I first happened to go on a tour during my one of my courses the higher command course and we went to the Anderman and Nubars and we were taken on an aerial tour of the entire island chain and it was the first time when one saw the Campbell Bay and we landed there and I used to wonder such a lovely the air air strip at a very dominating point and it so happened that you know high command is full of we do keep doing war games. So when we came back from the tour, we had a war game uh in the seas.

[00:02:01]And uh I first of all realized that uh while we were all talking about the second aircraft carrier those days that thought kept on my head as to why this lovely air strip which is dominating the the Malaka straight which happens to lie just about 40 to 50 nautical miles from uh Campbell uh is not getting used as an as an as a static aircraft carrier. Though many of my naval friends don't agree with my concept when I put across that we should look at militarizing this these set of violence uh it it kept there it was there all with me and it is very nice to see that possibly two decades down the line things have begun to happen so I'll just try and show certain things I made a little presentation and I will try and stay ahead of the u the political uh thought process because uh the opposition leaders have suddenly landed up into this area and they are you know playing the political games here.

[00:03:10]This slide looks at this uh area from the north to south. So India is upside down in this. This is how the Navy looks at uh the the their area of operations.

[00:03:24]So what you see marked right in the center of this this this image is the candle bay and it just sitting about 40 nautical miles from the this the island of Sumatra from where the straits of the Mala Malaka straits start. It dominates what's called the the 10 degree channel and thereafter further south is the sixderee channel which goes through the sunda strips.

[00:03:54]This if you look at dominates all shipping routes which flow both from the east to the west and west to the east.

[00:04:04]After crossing the Malaka states there are two major uh areas where uh uh townshipment happens. One is at Pinangort which is in Malaysia and one at Singapore and at Kala Kur. They are all small terminals capable of handling around all put together about 85 uh TUS of container loads whereas the demand is close to 540 TUS.

[00:04:32]So there is a requirement to create more infrastructure and Campbell Bay appears to be a very very lucrative and dynamic spot which unsurprisingly India has not exploited till date.

[00:04:47]I believe we are looking at creating uh 16.5 uh TU worth of container space there and it is possibly a place where Indian loads can be unloaded and thereafter shipped to your respective ports whether it is Chennai in the south or Haldya in the north and even look at Bangladesh Chitakong all these will become much shorter from the current ones which either gets transipped at Colbo or at Singapore.

[00:05:20]Thus there was some uh basic calculation which back of envelope calculation which was done which says that turnar around time will be reduced from the current 7 to 8 days to 2 to 3 days which is a tremendous amount of difference and the costs which incur in terms of handling this traffic will also get cut down by one/ird. In addition to this, if we also extend this facility to other uh global trade, all put together, there is an expectation that this particular port can turn out up to a billion dollars in a year. and with other ancillaries close to 4 to5 billion annually which is a huge amount of revenue which can be resourced from this strategic location that we we hold on the high sea and surprisingly we have not been able to monetize uh the value resource of the Pandaman Nikabar island chain till now I am not at all adding the traffic the tourist values which it will attract subsequently because uh There is also a talk that the if not the the nicobar the underman chair chain can be further exploited to be with the Caribbean of the east because you look at the other end of the underman sea you reach the fuket and the thai uh tourist resorts.

[00:06:46]So almost the same sea on two sides uh of the of the ocean. So in that context if we actually take this project up as a as a holistic project I feel there is win-win for everybody win-win for uh the ones who invest win-win for India as a nation because uh our claim towards dominating the Indian Ocean will become more substantial that much talk about dominating the straits of Sunda and Malaka which after the current Hormu trade uh things which is happening in the Middle East has actually gained much more uh value actually can be realized by us sitting at Campbell Bay and the resource of this particular island chain can be fully exploited which is currently only being used to expand your econ uh as far as India is concerned. So this is what I wanted to put across with this small slide. Uh in short, General Shankar will have much more to uh to to talk about. Can I have the next one please?

[00:07:54]The next slide. Yeah. Lot of talk is going about you know of uh the NGT getting in and there's so much of deforestation which will happen. If you go to Campbell way by and large that area is already clear you know that area where the air strip is there is already got very limited trees. what they are trying to develop is only one portion of the of the island which is towards the east eastern part of the of the island chain. There is a a natural harbor which is there in uh in Campbell Bay which can be exploited as a port though it needs a lot of uh because there is a requirement to expand it because the the current birthing space is very limited. So there will be some degree of expansion both towards the east and the west and there is a requirement to expand that air strip. I believe it has already been expanded to take in uh larger aircrafts.

[00:08:48]Earlier only turborop could land there.

[00:08:50]Now I believe the the 737 series of aircraft or the the narrow body aircrafts can land. But for uh being making it worthwhile you may have to extend it further. And of course when you create all these infrastructure there will be a huge amount of population which will be get built in.

[00:09:08]So their uh living space and their uh kind of marketing areas etc will all like to come up and of course with that we'll come up some degree of tourism which will actually expand this whole thing at least to half this particular island which is being marked over here.

[00:09:26]Can I have the next one?

[00:09:28]Next slide please. Yeah. So basically what they are talking about is an airport a power plant because they need lot of power is required there a trans shipment port which means the port and there is going to be a large holding area where container transipment has to happen. It needs to have a huge amount of uh uh engineering equipment which needs to be brought in there because it involves unloading and loading of ships unirthing and birthing of ships. So there involves a little bit of deforestation of the Galatia National Park which is the point of contention for the all these years and I believe now a decision has come from the judiciary that uh the we can carry out the the exploitation of this area and extend it with certain caveats of you know planting equal quantity of uh greenery in other parts of India which I believe they are taking up in the in the regions of Rajasthan which currently needs a degree of aforestation.

[00:10:30]So in all in all when I look at the great nicobar project uh it is a win-win situation for India and uh if we want to be counted as a a power in the Indian Ocean region if we want to counter the growing Chinese influence in this region. It is high time we start showing our hand. The Anderman and Nikobar command which was established way back in the beginning of this millennium in Port Blair has been there only in the namesake. It has not had any value addition in terms of troops and uh equipment.

[00:11:08]It is still not possibly expanded to its full capacities and it is the necessity to go beyond the underman chain of islands further south to the nicobar group because that is where you can dominate the sea lines of communication which actually flows to that area. So in that count the current look at taking the uh biting the bullet and taking the thing forward towards the Campbell Bay is a very good initiative. political things apart I know there's going to be huge amount of pressures there are vested interests which don't want India to have this this capacity because it will hurt some other people's economy primarily the opposition will come from China because uh it has a direct influence of all uh sea routes uh of communication that China uses both from east towards west and west towards east and it definitely won't want a powerful navy to be dominating this particular region and uh we may have to negotiate that aspect but in the current scheme of things when everybody has uh their hands full when you look at Russia it's it's fully concentrating on its uh Ukrainian uh doggy or whatever you can call the the United States is stuck in the Gulf and China is still so badly unbalanced both within and out that it is not in a position to try and create uh problems and in this kind of a scenario this possibly is the best opportunity for India to undertake this uh very future-looking project which has huge payoffs in the in the in the coming days and uh political things apart I think uh it should be supported wholeheartedly as a nation because it'll give the value to a growing nation and a growing power that India is and I think I'll hand it over back to you Sri G. You can take forward the discussion. Thank you.

[00:13:07]>> Thank you so much sir. Uh viewers I just wanted to clarify on the first slide that General Ayar put up the map is actually inverted. Um it's a little small for people to read it. I just wanted to Navy looks at that's how the Navy looks at the landmark.

[00:13:25]>> Yes. Yes. So just wanted to so that you understand that why is there no India map? We're all used to the upside down or the right side up. Thank you so much sir. Let's go to General Shukla. General Shukla um I I've this is the first time I'm seeing the Gal Galatia Bay in this extent. I've done one or two programs on Kurus on this uh primarily from the reforestation aforestation point of view.

[00:13:53]But General Shukla I think I have a bigger issue here. This is India's land.

[00:13:58]There is no dispute about this part and if India wants to do something why should somebody else get stomach ache sir you have to be in India to realize that you sitting in a nice place how we can waste our time trying so exactly I want to make three connected points one is these false binaries where I will try and answer your question and the second point is connected with maritime geographies and the third power projection you know we wasted did the first 50 years since independence in one false binary development versus security sometimes I used to feel guilty as if I'm in the wrong profession if development was such a issue you felt guilty of the whole argument and then another false binary came up security versus necology I was in MO directorate when we fought these cases you know and one reason is the honorable judiciary and their honorable men they have simply very little understanding of strategic affairs. So what pushes them is this ecological argument. So the LAC what started happening every small road somebody put an objection as if you know it it will destroy ecology soldiers are natural ecologists you see our conements aren't they the greenest places in India any naval station air station is the greenest place the lack of greenery is in all other places for all the wrong reasons but if uh I'm just giving an example if The army builds a road stretch of 3 kilometers. It goes far beyond Supreme Court directives. It'll plant million trees elsewhere. We are natural ecologist. We know how to live with nature. So we wasted this entire time along the LAC till lot of cases accumulated. And then we had a very fine DGM whom I keep quoting General Seeko who said let's hire a big lawyer. For the first time we got a big name. I'm forgetting whom it was. I think it was Mr. Ramjit Milani or somebody really big in one sitting Shri G over two days he got all those 600 stays vacated one sitting >> giving all these you know strategic reasons and all. Now what happens every land stretch it is represented by some lawyer somewhere who has no clue and all these things you know accumulate and we wasted so much time and in those 10 years you know what the Chinese did to infrastructure.

[00:16:35]I mean it used to be they used to get dazzled when you went to the LC road and there there were highways and runways and all coming up and now for a while we managed to address that at least I think uh on the le there are not not so many objections.

[00:16:54]So I am saying it is an entirely wasteful debate. You it should not go all the way up. It should go all the way down. You leave it to the wisdom of the GOC and the local district magistrate and they will sort out these ecology issues. There is nothing so great. It is when we don't want to do this and we keep you know kicking the can upwards all these things happen and you know the Supreme Court somehow is given some impression as if there is massive ecological destruction taking place and then they give these uh kind of orders against which you know it's it's it takes time to represent and you lose you lose very valuable time. So so that's the first point I'm saying it's an absolute false binary. you take me to these exact places and we have a very fine gentleman there, Admiral Jooshi. He knows what he's doing. He's the left governor there. I'm sure he will take care of all these issues. I mean, I can't imagine General Shanka or General Arian or you for that matter if you are you know super in charge of a certain place you let eological destruction occur. They have to be handin glove. They are enough sensible people. And and the second point is this Sri look at this uh maritime geography.

[00:18:06]China in the first island chain has got four adversaries. Japan, Philippines, South Korea, Taiwan and the US. They cannot break their way out of the first island chain. So the Navy is bottled up.

[00:18:25]Just think of that.

[00:18:28]And we have got a lovely oceanic expanse. We can't make up our mind neither in terms of leveraging marine wealth nor in terms of trade commerce and certainly not in terms of labor capacities. We have such a coastline what 11,000 kilometers all waiting for us and we can't make up our mind. Sometimes we can't find the money. Then ecology comes in. We should have been a natural naval power which countries blessed with such a coastline such a great maritime geography and you know all commerce, trade, prosperity comes for the seas and you have to secure it.

[00:19:12]So that's the second point. The third point is I mean I we all grew up in the army saying we were told that India doesn't believe in power projection as if it's some you know unholy thing to do. I mean what was the ashame ashame when you send that horse around it was power projection >> in concentric circles >> it makes sense to project power beyond meet threats beyond before they come to your doorstep.

[00:19:43]This is exactly what America does. Is it a foolish country to have 11 aircraft carriers, 800 bases? They project power.

[00:19:50]It is so useful.

[00:19:55]How important it is. Admiral Arun Prakash, one of the first CNC's of Andikoba commands. I think Hari was roughly paraphrasing him. He said they are national aircraft carriers under Manikoba to project power across Malaka.

[00:20:10]But you have to have that kind of sensibility and it is not par to jack boot it is power to intervene when your national interest so demands. So not only this lakshad all the other islands that are there we should be building capacities there to project power. We are just not doing it. We must not say it but the Indian Ocean must be an Indian lake. What was that RSD incident all about? It was the MAGA crowd telling India that listen you talk of being a what is that net security provider what will you do when we hate you.

[00:20:44]We seriously it's a it's a package of things that needs to be done. Not waste our time on these silly debates. First security development now security versus ecology. And that answers your first question.

[00:21:02]China it's maritime geography stuck.

[00:21:05]They would be thinking what fools they are. And we will do nothing till the naval those 500 ships once they come to our Indian Ocean then we will get up you know and I think it was JJ Singh who used to say panip syndrome so that's what's going to happen in the maritime dimension so it is linked to these larger issues of you know being aware of your maritime geography of how important security is our projection these debates also have to grow and it is at a time when uh you know look these choke point conflicts are becoming so important just look at the US Navy it's what three aircraft carrier Armada assembled around the strait took down 160 uh Iranian ships if Mr. Trump is to be believed. It takes 2 years to build a ship roughly. So 160 into two is how much? Some 300 plus years of maritime provinces under the sea. Yet this grand navy cannot enter the strait because it is not small enough. It is not agile enough. It is not unmanned enough. So look at this. Big is suddenly not lethal. The point I'm making is that the maritime space has got so many conundrums, so many challenges and we have this whole coastline not leveraged to the extent that we should, not investing in maritime as we should. So it is uh really less than wise and I strongly think that all these debates uh are just a huge waste of time and the Supreme Court should call all these uh contending parties over a week since in the national security interest settle them one way or the other and they have to go. If you're going to struggle to build extend your runway by 20 m every 6 months how are we going to meet these these great challenges in the national security sphere? It's uh as I say I I mean uh those are my views. I think that they absolutely false binaries. We are wasting our time or losing precious time when a maritime geography is so favorable and this business of power projection has to get into our head if we are serious about becoming a vix bat that has to start now. It's just 20 years away.

[00:23:28]>> Thank you so much sir. Uh Jal Shankar over to you. Uh same questions but I think you have a powerpoint. Let's uh take a look at that.

[00:23:38]>> I I mean I couldn't agree more with uh what General Har and General Rajukla said this false binaries. It's not a binary it might be a quadinary or a territory or whatever it is. I think we have to get out of it. Uh happily let me put it let's look at it the positive way. Um you see this whole though general har refrain from talking about what's happened but the problem starts from there no the problem starts when a political figure goes there and says you know you're going to obstick the whole earth it's a damn stupid island it's a small island that's it the you know the Galatia Bay and Cample Bay is then the uh great nicobar last one it's just one little island you're not touching the entire chain That's the first thing we have to understand. And secondly, he's as much responsible for the national security of India as the prime minister.

[00:24:38]He's a leader of opposition. He has said okay about environment. But has he said anything about the uh you know the strategic envelope in which he's talking? I think that's a point which we need to put across and I think that's what we both of them have put across and I'll just amplify this through a presentation. They've looked at the inner part of the story. Let let me expand and take you outside this area and see see these are the primary choke points of the globe. These are the ones which are there. You you know in this if you draw a line okay you draw a line look at it. If you want to circumvent the earth you have to go through this.

[00:25:19]This is the Panama Canal, Gibraltar, Su Canal, then your uh Babal Mandab and Malaka straight.

[00:25:29]Others you can avoid. You have alternatives and all that. Otherwise, no you otherwise from here you can come around the Megalan straight, Cape of Good Hope and still you get stuck here at uh Malaka or you go around uh South Africa, Tasmania and you go to Antarctica and keep going up.

[00:25:49]and you're sitting here. No one can avoid this. You might be able to avoid you know go through panama and I'll come down and do anything but you can't avoid this. This is the importance of this Malaka straight and the entire story.

[00:26:03]This is not a Malaka dilemma for China Malaka. This is just something which you they can't and you just think hormone freight which has just about 1/5th the capacity of this maraka freight has got the world to its knees right just think what you can do to the Chinese let them come and sit in Ladak if you know what this fellow can do and you this is a you know blueprint for us to do and you just tell the Chinese okay you want to try something in Ladak Okay, try and I'll stop you at the hormones people here so far. Sorry you I'll stop you at Malaka. Simple, right? No, no, no. Let's not couch you, you know, and nice talk and all. This is my land. I'll do what I want with it. I don't have to negotiate with anyone to do what I want in this thing. There no negotiation.

[00:27:00]This is national security.

[00:27:02]If after what's happened in straight of formos and what Iran has done, you don't take steps then well all the best to you. Right? But let's look at our interests. See this I'm going to connect the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean and see Malaka where it figures and something else where it figures. These are our interests, right? Our interests start from here. This both these straits and the uh Madagascar straight, the Malaka straight and of course the straits down south.

[00:27:32]There the Lombok strait, Sunda strait and the others. This entire expanse of Indian Ocean is our interest and we should have no doubt about it. Right now let me look at the Chinese interest like what General Rajuklla was saying earlier. This is China. See China's geography it's got a you know messed up geography. You see look I let me explain. This black dotted line is the first island chain. This red dotted line is a second island chain. If China wants to get out from here, it has got no way to go. That's what General Rashukla was saying. It has to first cross the first island chain and then the second island chain. And between the first island chain, they're all straits. They're all straits. You have to go through two pieces of land. You put one machine gun, one missile, the same. We put one machine missile that say China can't go anywhere.

[00:28:26]And that's what Japan is doing today.

[00:28:28]What is Japan doing? It is militarizing its island. It's nuclearizing. It has increased its uh def you know defense expenditure by nearly 7% or 10% whatever it is the highest since a long time to come and so China's this side is bundi bund as they say in Hindi. Okay. Now so that is why you see the logic of this 9 dash line or 10 dash line. It wants to come near. It has edged near. It has put island here where it can control. Why?

[00:29:00]So that it can go through here. Its ships are not exposed. It can do a halt here or a cover here and go through. And for that it needs this Malaka straight.

[00:29:11]You want Sunda straight and Lombok straight and the uh Mumbai vetar straight. Four straits. But these three straits are means you go all around the countryside. By the time you come out here your tongue will be hanging out. So the Chinese don't want that. They have to come through the Malaka straight.

[00:29:27]They're bottled. They can't go through here. And if you bottle the Malaka straight, they can't go anywhere. So China can have any number of ships, but they can't leave this place. And you can't leave it out. And Galata Galatia Bay sits at the bottom of that. And we'll we'll come to Galatia Bay. Now look at this. Look at this chain. This is the Andaman Neobar chain. 500 km north to south.

[00:29:50]Okay. This is where Campbell Bay and Galatia Bay is. This is I think Dipur at the top U or what's that uh Radhaur uh this thing I'm forgetting the thing there's a thing right on the top this actually closes China's options completely there's no way it can go anywhere let me explain this let a little more this is the Campbell Bay from here to here 50 nautical miles you see Indonesia I have taken off from Campbell Bay in a chopper the moment you go you can see Sumatra Right. There no I mean it's as simple as that. I say yeah Indonesia that's the first thing you get when you take off from a chopper there. Okay. And when you sit here you are just next to Myanmar and all this. Now look at these you know stars I put. What are these stars? This is Chuk Fu where China is building a you know the CME that is China Mayamar economic corridor comes here and they want to build here and take oil from here that means everyone will come here and go here. You sit on the north here and you can hit him here and you choke him there. There's the other place Kra Canal which in Thailand which they wanted to put across so that you know they can bypass this thing. Now you are sitting just 400 kilometers from there from Port Blair and you go to Campbell Bay you can close this and you just think in straight of Hormuz you you know you just here and this this entire straight of hormones the moon actually the straight is here where I put this uh you know pointer it's not here but the funnel into the straight is all almost 800 km the moment he crosses here with your aircraft with your UAVs is with your missiles, with your everything. You know, you can control that fellow for anything. He can't even, you know, go out for a pedal, if I may put it metaphorically. And it's not as if, let me also tell you, it's not as if this Galatia Bay and Campbell Bay are the first things in, you know, strategically we are doing. Ever since I can remember, you know, I I I've been telling this, I've made a, you know, a video and said this, maybe one of these days I'll explain it. You know in the for the past 15 20 years we've been going and firing our bramos out there. We fire bramos across this uh alongside along this right we have this capability. Why do you think we are going and firing bramos you put bramos somewhere in the you know in caric comes here somewhere here and from caric you fire any ship which goes across this it's gone. We've done that.

[00:32:24]We have this capability right? But if you go sit in Campbell Bay this is Campbell Bay. You go sit in Campbell Bay, you go sit in Carneobar, you go sit in Port Blair and there's Digipur on top, that's it. No one can go anywhere.

[00:32:39]Why do you think China calls this as an iron curtain, right? It is something of course what General Harim moan said about Galatia being a trans shipment point. You'll make money and all that is a secondary issue. The way I look at it, it'll come, it might happen, might not happen, but it will happen. It will happen. There's there is economic logic to it and it is huge economic logic. Otherwise, what are you doing? Or big ships come uh dock at Columbbo. From Columbbo you trans shship. So instead of doing at Columbbo you transip from here and send it to your own places.

[00:33:14]So there is economic logic in that.

[00:33:16]There's no two ways about it. But there's huge strategic logic. Now let me take it further. See it is not that this is little. This is Andaman. This is caric between the main channel here is the 10° channel. Okay, just to give a this is the 10° channel.

[00:33:33]This is ships normally come here go through the 10°ree channel. What is under car? This is caric. Caric is where we have a air force station. You go down south is Campbell Bay where we have a air strip everything. Right now when you you know you uh you're here you dominate the sixderee channel. Where's the six° channel? The channel between Indonesia and Campbell Bay is the 6° channel. So if you dominate, you know, and this 10° channel falls within your not your territorial waters, but within your EZ.

[00:34:09]So you do this, you can actually close everything. Okay? Now, sorry. Now, it's not only that you look at this thing.

[00:34:17]You looked at this. Okay? You have this between uh all this uh there is greater and man little and man caric this you have you have control of this 10°ree channel and you have the six° channel now it doesn't stop there so when you sit here you look at this look at the chos archipelago that is your lakshadep archipelago it goes down to minico and it goes down to malds between these also there only two channels the 8° channel and the 90° channel. So a ship from here has to come here go around Columbbo get into these.

[00:34:59]It just can't go anywhere. It want like a bloody cow in a pasture and you in Miko you already established a little military station with some missiles there so you can control. So just think where Chinese are and when you put this thing in caric what happens to the Chinese? You think Chinese can do anything here after that? They'll forget it. Why do you think they're becoming friendly with us?

[00:35:23]And the economic thing is there. There's no doubt about it. But I would like to Yeah, thank you. That's it. Uh I would like to put across to Yeah, we can take it off. I would like to put it across to everyone and which is this and I go with what General Rajukla said. What are we discussing?

[00:35:44]This is your prime land. You control the Indian Ocean. you control uh if the moment you get on to and and you you know you block all those and you start controlling South China Sea you can project into China from here you can go through he can't come he's got no way of stopping you can go through I mean it's time we started thinking the other way around what can he do so this is what Campbell Bay gives you in conjunction with you know other four points which I've said virtually you're putting a screen out there and if you have to do anything more you can and if you have to have out of area contingencies you want to do uh you know uh rescue and disaster disaster management which you did mind you why is all this come about in 2004 during that tsunami you know uh when it happened all these lurals were you know affected and no one could help them the it was beyond the US Navy to help them. That was when the Indian Navy with its resources at that point of time went and did what it did. Now we talking 22 years back despite the fact that India South India had got affected by the tsunami badly right right from Chennai down south everything even the backwaters of Kerala were affected during that tsunami. So despite this our navy went and helped them. The only two navies which helped people around that area were the Indian Navy and the US Navy. Where was this great PLA? It was sitting inside Shangghai hiding from you know the tsunami which came. This is the advantage you have.

[00:37:26]This is the mental advantage you have.

[00:37:28]You your off late if you we've noticed we started sending ships there. You know more importantly it's not only that uh I don't know how many people know Malaysia and Singapore have invited India to be part of the Malaka patrol right this happened sometime back I mean I don't know where it has gone not gone or part of it and all we know and we do exercises the other side we do air exercises the other side with US Navy and Australian Navy and all so I think this is a very important place uh we can't just ignore it just because someone has you know in his ignorance has said look this is the problem I don't think we're going to stop and I don't see this government stopping either I mean I don't see that stopping we can discuss it why are we discussing it strictly speaking we shouldn't be discussing this why are we discussing this unfortunately the power of information you know the value of narratives false narratives if not false binaries. It's bloody false narratives which are going around the countryside which we need to dispel. Right. That's why I I leave it back to you.

[00:38:42]>> Thank you so much sir. Um you had a point to make General Shuka.

[00:38:47]>> Yeah. See I I just wanted to make this point of you know how this defensive crouch has harmed us. It's somehow into our bloodstream into our thinking. So I remember the first CNC was under Arun Pakash and see what he said aircraft carrier to project power across and then somewhere down the line we used to have CNC's come to war college and uh high command wing where their whole plans were to defend every island. Now imagine if the Chinese can project power all the way and come here. I mean India should stop existing if we have to defend Manikar.

[00:39:28]How can they project power all the way?

[00:39:29]What are you doing? But this was serious uh um discourse at the CNC level.

[00:39:37]So this is how a defensive crouch you know we just have to break out of this defensive crouch. We should start teaching strategic geography in schools and colleges.

[00:39:48]Key this whole business of how you should look at geography and see the other point is it has a bearing on how you look in the commercial domain at the maritime in terms of maritime.

[00:40:02]Why does has India not leveraged its uh coastal towns or ports uh in the manner that Singapore has done or Dubai has done? We are as General Shankar pointed out we are at the midway approximately at the midway between Europe and Asia.

[00:40:18]We should have been the Singapore.

[00:40:21]We should have been in the Dubai if not Singapore. That you know somebody said we are stuck in a partition trap 47. All we can think of is Pakistan across which is the best if you I mean that you just get that map back which General Shankar was showing it gives you a good idea of where India should be looking. They should be looking at the seas at projecting power all that kind of stuff and that is where it comes from. I've seen naval officers make this argument.

[00:40:50]I mean moment you talk of an aircraft carrier you I've heard them say oh yeah India can't afford these fancy things. I mean it is uh what is so one is a matter of finding the money for it. Okay. So, we may not have the money for lemon, but you can surely keep growing your you know maritime uh province. Look how USA takes power projection so seriously.

[00:41:15]It's this this war is against power capacity into Europe.

[00:41:24]They should not be able to fire missiles into the mainland. On that threat, they are coming two oceans away. And here having a perfect geography everything to project across we go and find some fault with the this whole project ecology is coming in the way. So it is as I said it is absolutely optically thank you.

[00:41:52]>> Thank you so much sir. One minute or two minutes each for concluding thoughts on this. We have a lot of questions and we'll probably spend a little bit time on that one. uh general ayar first and then general shukla then general shankar firstly as far as the strategic uh issues go I've been saying this and I think all of us have been saying this the quad as one looked at is as good as gone at least it has gone out of vision if you expect uh USA to come and do this dirty work over here I don't think so it's going to And after what has happened in uh both the Middle East and in Ukraine, the possibility of some kind of a mischief happening in the Indian Ocean cannot be given up. So therefore there is a need to look at areas that we need to dominate to protect ourselves. The Anderman Nicobar as well as the Lakshi give us what to call as the defense ahead of our mainland especially from the ocean.

[00:42:57]In fact, what General Shanka was trying to bring out must also look at it. It's a screen.

[00:43:03]Any maritime assault onto our eastern coast can be dominated by the screen sitting at Anamaran Nicobar chain.

[00:43:13]Unfortunately, like General Shukla says, the organization which sits there has been mandated to protect the islands and not act as a screen. So there is a need to look at the kind of organization because if you kind tomorrow invest that's why I'm very happy that this investment is happening otherwise it's been 24 years since thear command has come about didn't mention but he was almost going there about 6 years back so He must have also done that study as to what he would like to do if he went there. I have spoken to every CNC and Arman command at least three four of them. All of them feel so strangulated.

[00:44:04]They have nothing to show. They have they're just sitting there. They have forgotten identities. Unfortunately, that is how India keeps looking at our security interests. And they were very happy that you know somebody's going to investion automatically these other issues will all fall into place. And second thing which uh needs to be flagged if you want to stop China's expanse beyond Malaysia and Singapore westwards there is a need to keep our outpost far east who can't expect to sit at Tvandram and Vishaka and hope that you'll be able to dominate the Indian Ocean. It is time we start expanding into that. That's why I showed that map. That's how the Navy looks at the map map of India. It's a peninsula map. It projects into the ocean and you have two fantastic seas, the Arabian and Bay of Bengal which flank the Indian Ocean. It gives you a kind of a launch pad into into the Indian Ocean. Unfortunately, we are not even doing as much as Sri Lanka does to protect its maritime interests. And therefore it is high time I am very sure when the theater commands come I do hope this peninsula theater command or whatever we are talking about does not stay mainland and it goes beyond. I only hope the Andan Nikovar command and something equivalent in the in the Lakshib is also you know encompassed towards it this peninsula kind of a theater and we expand we need to look at uh India as as a force projection uh armed force we need to create influence in areas that in that are going to make us uh value for the future if you have to be a a developed state like General Shukla said you can't be looking inwards and you can't get strangulated ated by these I deliberately didn't want to go the political issue which general shankar mentioned but then the very fact that you're discussing it today when that gentleman is sitting posting photographs from car navar it indicates that you know that is where we are looking at talking about today I didn't want to go there but that said I I feel uh let's not look into the minor politics we have to look at long-term interests for the nation because this thing is not going to happen tomorrow it's going to gate 10 years by the time this fully gets developed and operationalized and we need to ensure that we are strategically poised to exploit whatever we create in this island chain. Thank you.

[00:46:37]>> Thank you so much sir. General Shukla concluding thoughts.

[00:46:41]So you know just two thoughts one uh just to see how deep this malays is in us. In ' 65 I think Admiral Qatari was the chief and he went to then Drasha Mantri and said what is the role for us?

[00:46:56]We would like to do something and that was a fatal mistake because by the afternoon the JS had issued a order in writing that the Navy will not cross this parallel.

[00:47:09]So I mean that is our that is our thinking.

[00:47:14]So we have to break free of it. And the second thing is you know har was just mentioning peninsula when this theater command thing was on. So somebody said to maritime command boni it sounds too offensive peninsula. So are we talking of a coast guard or we talking of a navy? I'm bringing these points out to tell you how entrenched these thoughts are and these are serious people talking all this. So this whole business of you know defensive crouch this false binaries they hold our national security back by so much that we the the the counter conversations have to pick up and in that sense I think this program that we are doing is not a bad idea at all.

[00:47:57]>> Thank you so much sir. Uh Jan Shanka concluding thoughts.

[00:48:00]>> Yeah I have a thought and and this is a question I'm posing to Mr. Rahul Gandhi who is my leader of opposition and you know he's virtually a shadow government he supposed to be isn't it in some form though we don't have that concept I want to ask him it's a question no one has asked him how do you want to deal with the Chinese threat how do you want to deal with the threat from Pakistan what is your opinion and viewpoint as to how Indian armed forces should you know save our country we'll save the country and then of course if needed we'll save the karnikobar those islands also so we'll do that there's no problem he said one part of the story Mr. Rahul Gandhi I'm asking you a question you know I'm as much as a voter to vote you or vote you in or out of power. So the question is please tell me how do I project India's power across or wherever or you feel we shouldn't have or you let me know whether you know India should keep sitting within the borders and I would also request you to go and you know read something what your grandmother did how she stood up to Nixon how she stood up to everyone how she went to Moscow and signed a you know what treaty how she went into Bangladesh Thank you.

[00:49:31]Thank you so much, sir. You know, I was going to have a concluding thought myself, but then I thought, why not show it with a video? Can you have the video, please?

[00:49:43]Operation Basmasur is a pulse pounding dive into the highstakes world of maritime espionage and technical sabotage. As Bharat edges towards nuclear submarine self-sufficiency, a shadowy wave of assassinations strike its top scientists leaves no clues and no witnesses. With local law enforcement paralyzed, intelligence bureau head Mike Stinasan unleashes his elite duo Karan Digshit and Priya Mayan to neutralize a lethal China Pakistan nexus. The team uncovers a chilling plot. The deployment of electromagnetic pulse EM technology to fracture the Quad Alliance during critical open sea exercise. Blending meticulous research with investigative grit, Sri Ayat reveals the hidden maneuvers of global powers seeking to dismantle India's sovereignty. Will Operation Basmasur succeed in turning the enemy's weapons against them? Or will the silence of the deep swallow Bharat's dreams? This is investigative fiction at its most provocative.

[00:50:58]So that's what the book is all about. Uh let's take some questions now.

[00:51:06]First question, this is to General Ayar.

[00:51:08]How can India hold straits against a power it shares land borders with? If war breaks out, they'll have to teach an unforgettable lesson to India. What to India? How can India teach a lesson to India?

[00:51:20]I I think General Shanka had very clearly indicated you don't need to hold a straight you need to dominate a straight and do any waterway needs to be dominated. You see how the Americans are doing they're not entering the straits but they are dominating the exit coming out of that waterway not letting any ship go beyond and that is what is called a blockade. So tomorrow we have to dominate Malaka straits or we have to close Mala states. You don't have to go physically into Malika states and occupy land. You can just block entry and exit into Malaka state and out of it. And that is what we can achieve by staying in Andaman Nicobar chain because we are very close. So if your naval assets are based in those areas, they can quickly get into those positions. Today the Americans have to move all these aircraft carrier across continents from USA into the Middle East to you know apply it there. We are not interested in going so far. Same is the case in the east. If tomorrow we have to let's say block any seaw routts which are coming out of Africa the Madagascar straits. If you have your assets let's say in the today we have some kind of assets which are also there in seials and maritias that is the whole aim of having those those military stations that tomorrow we can base our assets over there and we can cut down all these or dominate these sea routes and ensure that shipping which is enemical to you does not pass through those traits. If those shipping passes through it's going to increase the fighting power of your enemy whether it is Pakistan or China. The aim is to strangle him in terms of resources to force him to or reduce his uh war fighting stamina because of nonavailability of resources because both the nations are dependent on various sea lanes for their both uh energy and other sources. So that is how you are supposed to do. You don't have to get into a straight and you know occupy land over there.

[00:53:17]Thank you sir. Next question please.

[00:53:21]Uh this is for General Shukla. Uh any plans in pipeline to create more ship building centers plants are existing ones at capacity? General Shukla.

[00:53:32]>> No thoroughly inadequate. I mean I don't know the capacity but I'm talking of say the volumes. I've been making this point so many times. China's ship building capacity is 200 times that of USA.

[00:53:45]uh and warship production is thrice. I don't recollect I was reading somewhere very recently that some of our shipyards have no orders. Now that's a strange dilemma when we should be narrowing the state to the ship building capacity. How are there no orders? So it begins with that maritime. You have to look at maritime and I think this is the time in our you know what should I say strategic evolution when we have to make a big turn to the seas uh and look how grim this area is it's not easy uh the Americans because they have fallen behind Trump has brought ship building under the white house and I think I was telling on your show he chocked out some special agreement with theans because they have some ship building specialist this process province. So I think we really need to step up and uh if we have to model ourself on the Chinese state ship building corporation I had been saying that we must merge civilian and naval shipyards that's what they very smartly do here we have got civil shipyards and you know naval shipyards so our whole ship building thing comes needs to come together and we have to step up our investments.

[00:55:03]Thank you sir. Next question please. Uh Akash wants to know as bhat gains in economic strength duly reflected in the rising GDP the straits of Malakhan Hormus and Babel Mandab would come under our area of I don't know what AO is and dominance. Your views jal shankar >> no it will not come under our AO you know because that's not our area of responsibility. Okay. It's a international waterway and I'm sure after this uh uh you know war between Israel and US sorry Israel USA and poses Iran there'll be some international agency which will you know handle the hormone trade when the hormon happens something similar will happen to the babble mundam so as a result I don't think they'll be part of our responsibility we might have a role to play but we have to dominate and in any case we dominate We dominate up to uh you know the Gulf of Eden. We do that.

[00:56:00]That's part of our uh you know interest in the Arabian Sea and all the antipiriracy operations we do of the Somalia coast is here only. So we will dominate this area but it will not be our AO. Yeah.

[00:56:16]>> Next one please General Ay this is for you. Quite exciting. What timelines have they started with anything at all? As of now, as of now, timelines yet to be finalized. I guess about 5 to 10 years that will be how this whole thing will come about the but subject to it's only in the month of March I believe the the judiciary has cleared uh the NGT case. So I think now we'll have to go float tender. Somebody will have to start you know taking over that responsibility. it and definitely think looking at a PPP model which it will go and uh once it starts developing then only we'll see the security aspects getting linked to I just wanted to add one point to what General Shanker said our area of interest as far as India is concerned stretches from the horn of Africa right up to Australia that's the area of interest we need to know what is happening there but I don't think we want to get involved in each and every action in these areas >> next one please this is for General Shankar uh any update on the formation of theater commands. CDS sir has told it'll be formed by May.

[00:57:23]>> Oh well, your guess is as good as mine.

[00:57:25]Let's wait. I'm sure what they have said they've submitted the proposals. Let's see where it when it comes out.

[00:57:32]>> Next one.

[00:57:34]>> It be it'll one day be announced. That's about all.

[00:57:37]>> Yeah. General Shukla, sorry I missed the order. It's for you, sir. Sir, what impact do you think US uh just got into the flow of uh just got off sir? What impact you think US Navy from Diego Garcia will have if any?

[00:57:52]Bharat is becoming stronger here.

[00:57:56]>> No, they already didn't the Americans use Diego Garcia for the operation last year. This they've used it for a faint but they have their B2 bombers there.

[00:58:07]They keep bringing them uh the British before them. So this is the whole point of maritime power Diego Garcia I don't know what the legal status is but why should we be having extra regional presence in these islands and I've been making this point the Indian Ocean region should it not be an Indian lake even if we don't see it we should start building towards or at least get the A280 in the IO this whole business of uh you know being able to influence it by fire greater MDA uh unmanned systems. So we need to invest. I mean basically the point is that about maritime and then all these issues of bases will always also come.

[00:58:53]Next one please. This is for uh general ayar. I heard somewhere that we were under maritime law left by the British.

[00:59:00]Is this silly information?

[00:59:04]>> We follow the international maritime procedures. We are covered by those laws and unfortunately the British have been the ones who you know scripted most of these laws and they have got converted into one clause at the United Nations.

[00:59:21]So we are following those laws. So there is no specific reason why we should but the point which I think you are trying to you are trying to hint at is these uh NGT and environmental issues which are you know refraining us from developing these island chains etc. They are all our internal domestic uh problems. Like what General Shukla said, you know, there is another very interesting case.

[00:59:44]There was a a route which one one was trying to develop in the east and it was an alternate route because the the main road used to get uh affected by landslides and despite the fact that there was an enemy at the gates and there was an urgent need to at least you know uh clear a road track where the traffic could move the Supreme Court didn't didn't permit so that is an internal problem today what opposite has gone and raised over there of the national green tribute. Something like what happened in Bombay that metro project got delayed by 2 years just because some trees had to be felled to create a a car shed for the for the metro and now people realize the value for it had it come 3 years ago or four years ago the amount of uh value it would have added to Bang to Mumbai traffic would be immense. So the point we are trying to we are seeing is there are vested interest and these vested interests play up at time and space and they use all these you know loopholes in the law and the law is something and thankfully the BNS has now come in which has subsumed a large amount of British laws but uh there are some problems domestically but as far maritime is concerned we are covered by the UN clause and it is part of the world order.

[01:01:01]>> Thank you sir. Uh this is for you Shukla. Is there an island chain in the northern Arabian ocean where we could set up a base maybe even an artificial island like the Chinese have in South China Sea further west of the seabboard?

[01:01:15]>> I mean first let's uh set up capacities in the Anderman Nikobar islands then we can start thinking of islands there'll be so many so many beyond. So let's seriously underman nicobar see we do some great things and then we uh whoever set up the underman nicobar command I think it was a consequence of the cargill review committee actually thought that we'll use these islands for power projections as aircraft carriers and Arun Pash was a future chief he was sent there to do all this and then some other mentality took over so I'm saying it is firstly of outlook unless that and the whole thing is connected Theater commanders had to start looking deep. Western theater commander should stop bothering about Pakistan. He should look at West Asia. Iran is closer to India than it is to Israel. Eastern theater commander. Similarly, maritime.

[01:02:10]Unless we do that, we will never get over these hang-ups. So, we have to progressively increase our power projection capacities at increasing distances from the mainland. meet threats far beyond before they come to your doorstep. That is the argument.

[01:02:28]>> Thank you sir. Last question for you General Shankar. Uh Jiggish Shukla wants to know uh late to the show thoughts on Japan's Momi class offer to India. Thank you Jiggish Shukla. Sir, >> we should we should uh assess it. You know they might have given a offer. It's a process. Let it happen. I mean I have no comment at this point of time on that. But you know I'd like >> uh I just map just put that on >> what the previous question you know which went to General Shukla uh you know I just want to clarify the geography out here. If you look at the you know Indian Ocean see this is the Andaman archipelago and then you have a ridge out here. This is the you know chagos archipelago as they say. This is a satial uh maicious archipelago. This is Madagascar right in between is deep blue ocean unless you get somewhere near here. We don't have now someone said okay what is that place why don't we have something like south China sea here and all just for your information there's a place at the head of this inial somewhere here there's a island called agalea and agalea is a place where you know Indian there's a runway out there and we have some kind of understanding if you go into um the Google map earth you'll see that agaliga where Indian navy is operating The second thing is here there's a port in Oman called Dukum which we have a interest in and I think there is a understanding between Oman and India to you know operate that port handle that port and all that because these were not very keen on giving it to the Chinese so we don't have anything like the South China Sea island here but we have a facility here and you have here in between you can't develop anything Because the sea is pretty deep, right?

[01:04:26]The thing why South China Sea they were able to do it is the entire South China Sea, East China Sea and the Bhai Sea which surrounds uh um you know China is very shallow just to put you where I'm talking. Yeah.

[01:04:44]Yeah. This shri is very shallow in China. That is why they can make this islands. They are small rocks which are jutting out and they built around there.

[01:04:54]We don't have that. The geography is not for that. Yeah. Back to you. Thank you.

[01:04:59]>> Thank you so much. You know uh what better case for a stronger bigger navy for India than having three army generals discuss it. It was wonderful.

[01:05:11]Thank you so much generals and uh we'll be back again next Monday same time the gunner side. Thank you so much.

[01:05:18]Namaskar.

[01:05:19]>> Namaskar.