“I’m human, I’m fallible” | ZACK POLANSKI on trust in politics and antisemitism | ITV Peston

追加: 2026-05-07

[00:00:02]So, I'm delighted now to be joined by the leader of the Green Party who's in Cardiff uh as we speak. Zach, very very good to see you. Um I would imagine that you are It's always a pleasure to see you. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. Um I would imagine that you are somebody who believes it's really important to restore trust in in politics and politicians.

[00:00:30]I think it's incredibly important and actually I heard comparisons then to me and Nigel Farage and I just think those comparisons are completely unfair. Uh Nigel Farage took a5 million pound uh donation uh before he was an MP. I realize I've made mistakes. I'm a human being. But I think the comparison is probably a little bit unfair. More generally, I do think it's important that all of us in public life make sure that we act with integrity, that we're honest, and that we're held accountable.

[00:00:57]I mean obviously there are big issues of integrity which all voters would want to see all our leaders adhering to but also just sort of you know essentially people being straight with us. I mean I I genuinely don't understand how you could confuse being uh uh somebody who helped the Red Cross to raise a bit of money with being a spokesperson.

[00:01:21]I mean I don't think it's a sort of big deal in itself but it all adds to this erosion of trust. How did you get that wrong?

[00:01:29]>> Um I I think it's been overexaggerated.

[00:01:32]So I hosted events for the um British Red Cross. I would go on stage with them with a set of points they would want me to make around protecting refugees, around the amazing work they do with dealing conflict zones and also in fact the climate crisis in this country. This was in 2016. I accept that the British Red Cross cannot have a spokesperson who is in a political party. So they need to have that distinction. I understand why they've said that, but I think there's a little bit of pedantry between I spoke uh on behalf of the Red Cross as a public representative at events and I was a spokesperson. So, you know, I got the wrong word, but I think to most people they can understand that. I I think most people are reasonable.

[00:02:11]>> But you you do seem to have a sort of slight habit of getting the wrong words.

[00:02:14]I mean, on the BBC this morning, you talked about the alleged terrorist being handcuffed, but he wasn't handcuffed by the police, was he?

[00:02:24]Well, he was tasered and immobile and with his face down. And again, I think when you're being honest, when things are moving quickly, again, you will make mistakes. But I think it's important uh to be clear about the mistakes you've made. And again, I repeat, I'm a human being. I'm fallible. It's been a long election campaign and I think, you know, most people can hear what I'm trying to do and that I'm out there. You know, Green Party counselors have two vested interests. We want to protect the people that were elected to serve in their communities and we want to protect the planet and that's what I'm doing every single day.

[00:02:56]>> As I say, it it's not so much any individual thing, but it's the sort of cumulative thing. So, I mean, you know, another thing which I think most people would say is a bigger issue is, you know, a significant number of your candidates have said things that are completely explicitly anti-semitic. And I think you know many voters don't understand why they are have not just been expelled.

[00:03:23]>> Um I do think this is a different conversation because the things we were just talking about I don't think are particularly very serious issues. Um the case of anti-semitism though is incredibly serious and I know you'll associate with this too Robert but Jewish safety is not some abstract idea for me. Uh in fact personally in the last six weeks two people have been arrested in relation to anti-semitic events towards me. One was anti-semitic and and by the way homophobic as well.

[00:03:48]And so it's really really important that everyone gets a grip on anti-semitism.

[00:03:52]It exists in political parties because it exists in society.

[00:03:55]>> Uh something I've already committed to uh during this election is to make sure but if you're committed to zero tolerance on this issue, why not just boot these I mean there's no ambiguity.

[00:04:06]These people said this stuff. you know, you know, on social media. At that point, they should just be out the party, shouldn't they?

[00:04:14]>> Well, we're a decentralized party where the leadership doesn't have any say over the disciplinary process. What I have committed to though is making sure we have better standardized vetting process because we're a decentralized party. I still think it's important that the leadership comes from the top to say this is what we should be looking for and not looking for from our candidates and also that there's compulsory training for all counselors and indeed future candidates as well. It's not acceptable that people have made anti-semitic comments. I also think, by the way, it's not acceptable that some of the political parties have used anti-semitism as a political football.

[00:04:45]It's a sensitive issue that needs to be treated with care. I do want to thank the Labour MPs that have shown me solidarity that there's been several anti-semitic caricatures of me in the last 48 hours in the press, including a terrible one from the Times, which they've still not apologized for. And I do thank the Labour MPs, I think, who are showing leadership in saying even though we're from different political parties, we need to show cross party working on this and make sure we stamp out anti-semitism, islamophobia, all forms of hate crime from our society. I think the kind of using it to score political points has been pretty grim in this election. And as a Jewish person and someone who's very committed to an anti-racist party, it's been deeply upsetting.

[00:05:22]>> No, of course it is. And but there's a different aspect of of all of this. I mean, you know, like me, you say you're very proud of being a Jew. Doesn't it worry you when you see attacks on you from many members of the Jewish community, not just those on the right, you've got to be absolutely clear about this, who believe that your slowness in dealing with anti-semitism in your party, I mean, they say it makes them feel less secure.

[00:05:56]Um, it's really upsetting when anyone's attacking me for for anti-semitism because as I say, I'm really clear anti-semitism is unacceptable. And as I've said, we need to make sure that we have a standardized vetting process in the future. More widely, I would say if we're going to get to the issue of left and right is that I do think there's another angle here, which is I've been a very proud voice also speaking up for the Palestinian people. Now, we know you can perfectly well speak up for Palestinian people as I have and not be anti-semitic. I also accept that often those lines can get blurred. But I think people like Benjamin Netanyahu who have made a point of conflating anti-semitism and criticism of the Israeli government have actually made many of us uh I feel this less safe in this country because we've lost that demarcation of it's different being a British Jew and someone who doesn't support the Israeli government.

[00:06:43]>> But there's somebody who you know you say you've got absolutely absolute clarity on what it is to be anti-semitic.

[00:06:52]You say you've got a devolved structure in the Green Party, but aren't there just some issues which actually you should have the power to simply take decisions on in a centralized way?

[00:07:05]Well, I look for expertise on issues of disciplinary processes and the Equality and Human Rights Commission along with Martin Ford when they looked into anti-semitism in the Labor Party, one of their key recommendations was that the disciplinary process had to be completely separate from the leadership.

[00:07:19]Otherwise, you have leaders wading in deciding who's guilty, who's not guilty based on who they might want to select or deselect. And I'm not saying I do that for a second. In fact, I'm doing the very opposite. But actually, I think it's wise in all political parties that the discipline process is robust, that it's secure, and it's my job to make sure that that process is secure, but it's not my job to wade into uh disciplinary complaints because that road is is chaos. in in just a second.

[00:07:44]I'm going to move on to a a different subject. But just on this issue of what it is to be a Jew in today's Britain, you describe yourself as a non-Zionist Jew. What do you mean when you say a non-Zionist in these circumstances?

[00:08:03]Well, just first of all to pick up on you saying it was grim. There was polling out today, which I I know you saw as well that said 40% of British people in this country don't think the country would necessarily be better or worse if Jews left the country. That's deeply depressing, and I think that should be sobering for anyone in public life. To look at what do we do to make sure that Jewish people are welcome in in this country. in terms of being an anti-ionist or a non-Zionist. It's ultimately recognizing that I want to see uh equality for the Palestinian people that there's been a genocide for the last couple of years that our government have been arming and sharing intelligence. I want to see an end to that genocide and I want to see equality of voices at the table in making sure that we're building peace. I mean some again in the Jewish community would say you shouldn't pre you know there is an international criminal court case going on and they would say you shouldn't be judging whether it's a genocide or not as a political leader until the case or in fact cases are heard but just to be clear because this is something of enormous importance to the Jewish community as somebody who's either a non or an anti-ionist I mean do you believe that Israel has the right to exist in its current form.

[00:09:16]>> Well, there's two things there. So, first on the genocide point, it's not my opinion. It's genocide scholars. It's Francesca Albanese, the special UN raptor uh and lots of uh eminent experts who have been very clear it's a genocide. I don't think you can wait until afterwards after all the children and people have been killed and murdered and massacred to then go now it's time to do something about it. Anyone who has a phone can see every single day uh streamed images of some of the most brutal attacks ever in terms of I'm not directly pushing back on what we've seen. I'm just simply saying, you know, is it a responsible position for somebody who wants to be prime minister to prejudge what is a legal issue?

[00:09:55]>> I think what would be incredibly irresponsible is what this prime minister is doing, which is seeing the death and destruction that's happening every single day and continue to arm a genocidal apartheite state. I think it's really important that we use the power and leverage that we have that we don't wait until after the event. And by the way, even if it wasn't a genocide, even if it's tens of thousands of people who are being murdered and massacred who are innocent, surely that's enough to do something about it.

[00:10:19]>> Which which is obviously an important issue. But just f just very briefly, Israel, yes, has a right to exist.

[00:10:26]>> Yes or no?

[00:10:26]>> I don't believe any country has a right to exist. People have a right to exist.

[00:10:30]The Israelis have a right to exist. The Palestinians have a right to exist. And I think it's our role as a third country to make sure that there's fairness and transparency and accountability about a peace process. Um I always think these semantics about whether a country has a right to exist actually just ends up in gatekeeping which is partly how we ended up in this mess in the first place with the bow for de declaration.

[00:10:50]>> But but the the implication of that of course is that Britain doesn't have to right to exist. Um which you know also carries quite heavy connotations. But Peppa, you're going to show us something.

[00:11:00]>> Yeah. Well, this week, Zia Ysef announced that a reform government would prioritize putting migrant detention centers in areas with green MPs and councils. Now, the policy wasn't a serious one in that I don't think they'd actually be able to do it, but it did succeed in its key aim of getting a lot of media attention, social media attention in particular, as reform tries to frame the local elections as a choice between them and the Greens. Now, Zach, I'm sure you're going to say this is a total stunt on the part of Reform Party.

[00:11:31]I mean, but aren't you at all anxious that those people who might be thinking of voting uh green, you know, might be in some sense deterred by this reform threat that if they vote green, they're going to get a migrant detention center.

[00:11:48]I do think it's a ludicrous proposal from reform and it would be frankly laughable if it wasn't so dangerous and toxic. Just last week, two Sudin women uh died from a small boat. One of them was 16 years old. So, this is an issue that requires uh clarity and compassion and care. And actually, it strikes me that the amount of people since 2018 coming over on small boats is less in terms of the asylum seekers than the refugees we have housed quite rightly for the Homes for Ukraine scheme. This shows when we make political choices, we can save lives and actually show compassion. And what I think this shows about reform is that they're on the run from the Green Party. They're absolutely terrified in the same way that the Labor government have. They're choosing to aim their fire at the Green Party. And I think what that says is tomorrow, I'm not uh complacent at all. I am feeling confident though that all the parties recognize their vote for the Green Party is a vote to end this toxic combination of low wages and uh high bills and actually we're going to end ripoff Britain. And that's what reform don't like because they want to give tax breaks to their billionaire mates.

[00:12:49]>> Zach, as always, thank you so much for joining us. Um, and you know, like all of us, we will be, you know, next week going through what actually happens in these very important uh polls tomorrow.

[00:13:02]But I hope to see you soon.