Misery (w/ Cooper Tomlinson)

追加: 2026-05-18

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[00:00:49]Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, dying time is here. That's right. We're talking about misery on Kill by Kill.

[00:01:00]Well, greetings and salutations, internet. It is your old pal, Patrick Hamilton, coming to you once again from the deepest, darkest woods of Colorado.

[00:01:09]This is the Killby Kill podcast, where we are dedicated to celebrating the least discussed component of any horror film, the characters. And so we're going to unpack all the goriest details of 1990s misery in the hopes that your number one fan's untimely end is just the beginning of the jokes we might make at their expense. And as always, there's only one person I trust to make sure that when we finish the podcast, I'll have one cigarette, one match, and one bottle of Don Pergoni, the one, the only Gina Redflip. How are you doing today, Gina? I I brought my favorite Liberace album just just for the occasion.

[00:01:47]>> It's so romantic when you think about it.

[00:01:50]>> It really is.

[00:01:51]>> It, you know, deep down he just sang about love and um and sparkly things and gold pianos of course, you know, just setting the mood. Now, I don't want to scare you, Gina, but we are not alone.

[00:02:05]That's right. We have a special guest.

[00:02:07]You may know him as part of the comedy outfit. That's a bad idea with his partner Curry Barker. They have collaborated once again. Their latest project is in theaters as of today, Friday, May 15th. It is entitled Obsession, and he is the one, the only Cooper Tomlinson. How are you doing today, Cooper?

[00:02:27]>> I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:28]>> I am thrilled to have you here. uh especially after uh seeing the film and seeing what you guys have been up to and that we get to talk about a movie that it's not a it's it's not exactly apples and oranges, >> but it is oranges and tangerines to a degree.

[00:02:50]>> Yep.

[00:02:52]uh certainly different types of obsession but certainly at its core >> there is this misplaced love element but they're they're very different sides of a coin so um I generally ask people when they're on the show like when was the first time you happened to watch Misery was it for this had you'd seen it years ago what's your Misery story >> it was definitely years ago I I was probably far too young to be able to watch that movie. I think it was one of those where I I I I probably watched it without my parents knowing and I I turned it on late at night and uh >> Okay.

[00:03:32]>> What a tremendous film. Great performances. Rob Reiner. I I mean that that was just one of the best of its time. That's it's a top five uh Stephen King film right there. It goes a movie.

[00:03:44]>> Yeah. I I think it's a very good adaptation uh first and foremost because it does the thing that adaptations should do. It takes what it can use for the medium film from the book and leaves things it can't use behind. We're not worrying about seeing the writing process of the new misery book and you know the sort of magical realism elements of him writing that book are kind of left behind because they wouldn't make as much sense here.

[00:04:14]>> Yeah.

[00:04:15]>> Um Gina, what was your first experience with Misery? I I'm sure I've mentioned the story before about how uh in the midst of being stuck in a movie theater during a snowstorm, uh I saw this as part of a uh very intriguing double feature along with with another uh holiday family favorite, Home Alone.

[00:04:38]>> Really? You were trapped in in a a theater.

[00:04:41]>> I was I was stuck during a We went to go see one movie. I can't remember which one we saw first. and had started to snow very heavily during during the movie. And when we came out, cuz I was a teenager at the time, I was like, "Well, we're going to have to wait for someone to pick us up and it's going to take a while." So, we we might as well just go see another movie. And we ended up seeing the second half of this of this double feature.

[00:05:04]>> That's a horror movie within a horror movie. If if >> it really is a wayh I might have had to live entirely off of popcorn before I resort to eating people. Yeah, they are.

[00:05:15]Weirdly enough, if we're talking about odd pairings, two movies in which someone is trying to leave a house, whereas the other one trying to defend the house.

[00:05:26]>> So, and both both involve horrifically violent injuries inflicted on someone >> and people not really checking doorork knobs before they grab them. So, across the board, I I think we got a lot going on here between the two. Uh, Cooper, had you read a bunch of Stephen King before you'd watched this movie or was that any something? And is that Are you a big reader in that direction?

[00:05:53]>> I I occasionally I'm a big reader. Um, not as big as my girlfriend. She she she loves to read, so she kind of just tells me everything she's reading about. I I don't I don't read enough. I I got to say, but um yeah, I don't read enough.

[00:06:07]And I haven't read that many Stephen King books. I I'm It's unfortunate. I have to admit that.

[00:06:12]>> I listen, there's only so much time.

[00:06:15]>> I'm a movie guy, you know.

[00:06:16]>> What are you gonna do?

[00:06:17]>> So, >> uh, makes sense. Um, what about you, Gina? Did you read the book before you saw the movie or vice versa?

[00:06:25]>> I honestly can't remember. I I do, you know, I I agree this is probably one of the best uh bookto movie King adaptations.

[00:06:34]And of course, you know, much of that goes to uh uh Kathy Bates who just just really really captured the spirit of this character. And I I went into a little uh Misery a bit in uh writing in the book I've been working on for the past couple years. Uh I did a chapter on um the psychopathic character and how you know this this book and and the movie you know go out of their way to to give her some humanity and you know I feel like in the book she's a little bit more you know there's a little more uh you know depth to her but obviously you know you can only do so much on the screen right >> but you know just just the kind of terrifyingly realistic way she like just changes her mood so quickly and how, you know, the best thing you could do is just give her what she wants. And it's such a, you know, very very uh uh insightful and believable portrayal of a deeply disturbed and and and dangerous person. I think one of the things it does so well, and if I could compare it ever so slightly to Obsession, I would say that Indie Navaret's uh character Nikki, what she's able to do within that character to display the what some might view is as like a split personality conflict at moments in time where she's not completely control of what's happening to her and how she's able to physically ize that those emotions at any given point in the movie. It's one of those performances I'm going, "Wow, she's going to have a career." Because this is such a crazy uh display of one's ability to jump between emotions and being trapped and being full of love and being crazy. Like, she's able to con encompass all of that. And again, in Misery, you pretty much have the same type of runway for Kathy Bates. It's it's an incredible avenue for these very talented actresses.

[00:08:44]>> Yeah. No magic involved for Kathy, but no book involved for for Indie. Yeah, she's incredible what she pulled off, you know, watching her >> just play around with different I mean, she she every take, you know, we do or, you know, for in a scene like she she'd always do something different and unpredictable and it made the the filming experience that much more exciting and special. She's Yeah, she's a really great actress. She's got a incredible career ahead of her.

[00:09:12]>> Just a a a great showcase for her in that sense. But of of course for Kathy Bates like this performance not only is it revoly because film audiences while she had done small roles along the way she hadn't done anything close to this level of being on screen and being able to hold your own again against James Khan playing such a different type of role than he had been up until this point is really interesting like the way Khan play cuz in so many of the movies he's in he's like a coiled snake and in here he's kind of defanged for the most part. He is not a brute. He is not quick to anger necessarily. He for the first third of it he's drugged out of his mind. For the second third he's bewildered and unsure how to proceed.

[00:10:11]and then he's put in a desperate place and concocts a way to try and get out of it. But you compare that to the way Khan had been in, let's say, The Godfather or any of the other films that he was sort of famous for up until that point.

[00:10:28]This is a very different presentation of the James Con on screen.

[00:10:33]>> Yeah, you you were you use the word defanged and that's a really really good way of putting it. Like one of the some of the most uh uh chilling moments in this movie is when you just you know it's really starting to dawn on him how much trouble he's in for all intents and purposes is pretty much no one's no one is coming for him.

[00:10:50]>> Yes. Cuz no one knows he's there. So if you can't rely on anything else if you can't count on anyone coming to your rescue, how exactly are you going to sort of draft this scenario in your mind? This is where the book helps out because the book he's kind of able to start working through problems while writing the novel that he's forced to write and that just wouldn't work for a movie. So, you don't get that part. But you do get to see the wheels turn in his head which I think James Khan primarily not known as a super cerebral artist up until this point. Like you think roller ball or thief or even like something like Brian song where he is athletic. He's known for his physicality and in here all the physicality is kind of robbed of him because he's either performing from a bed, from a chair or from a wheelchair, >> right? And um she's tending that little farm all by herself. So there's no reason for you know like farm hands or anybody to come by like he just isolated and it just you know it's all starting to fall into place like oh I am good luck here.

[00:12:07]Um, one thing that I found interesting was that, you know, Khan, uh, not exactly at the height of his powers in terms of movies at this at this point, but the amount of people that they had tried to write put into the Paul Sheldon role is just this cavalcade of premier7s8s, you know, leading actors. They they had approached William Hurt twice. Kevin Klene, Michael Douglas, Harrison Ford, Dustin Hoffman, Robert Dairo, Al Pacino, Richard Drifus, Jean Hackman, Robert Redford, and finally they get a person to be interested in this role. Do you know this person that that Paul Sheldon could have been played by Warren Batty?

[00:12:55]>> Interesting. You know, honestly, as much as I think that James Khan took the role and made it his own, I think a lot of those people you you you rattled off would have been pretty good. I I think this is a very interesting role for a lot of actors, especially people with very pronounced, understandable on-screen performance types. You know, there's a Michael Douglas type, there's a Harrison Ford type, there's a Dustin Hoffman type. These aren't exactly the same kinds of actors beyond the fact that they were leading actors who could open a movie. And Batty's interesting, I think, primarily not because he eventually has to turn down the role because he's like doing a bunch of post on Dick Tracy, but that he's the one who kind of breaks what this type of movie actually is. So when when uh when Reiner is trying to to continue to move the script forward, they they're sitting in a room together and Beta goes, "You know what this movie actually is? It's a prison story. This guy is in a prison movie and you got to treat it as such. You need to know what he what he's up against in terms of breaking out and what he'll have to do to get there. If you make the audience feel trapped, they'll know how [ __ ] he is. And if they start to see him figure out a way around these defenses, a way to possibly gain his freedom, the audience will again feel smart because they're like, "Oh, that is a good way to get out of that room. That is a good way to maybe lure your kidnapper into drinking uh drugged wine and you make them feel as smart as the characters on screen. Um but eventually Batty backs out because of all the Dick Tracy is a runaway production and he can't quite get his mind or he can't get the movie where he needs it to be. So he has to drop out and they bring on James Khan.

[00:15:08]And I think he's one of these people who like, let's say, a Harrison Ford, someone known for their physicality more than their cerebral uh sort of on-screen presences, I think, lends itself something special to that character, that Sheldon role that you might not have gotten with somebody. I'm sure these all would have been a version of good. There's There's no way it would have sucked, let's say, with Robert Dairo.

[00:15:41]Maybe with Richard Drifus.

[00:15:43]Maybe maybe with 1990 Richard Drifus.

[00:15:48]>> Did James Khan want to do it? Did or was he reluctant to take it on? I mean, had he ever done a a horror movie before? I I I don't know.

[00:15:55]>> Not really. I mean, he'd done a bunch of he done some sci-fi stuff at this point, and I think he's looking for projects.

[00:16:03]He's he's open to it, but I think he had to wrap his mind around how he would have to present a different side of himself to be more so believable the Paul Sheldon Ryder part. Cuz whenever he has that moment to get angry, you all of a sudden you turn on that James Con that you go, "Yeah, I believe that guy would just drive off and get shot to death like he is in The Godfather." Like there's a line that runs through there that's like, "Ah, that's a rich vein running through this performance."

[00:16:40]Um, and then I think the other component that he was into is that, and this is going to become kind of wrote for our audience and talking about Stephen King, but it turns out everybody that misery is secretly about addiction. Gina, can you believe it? I you're you're blowing my mind here.

[00:17:02]uh that you know so much of the book is about and another thing they kind of have to leave behind is that battling your way past medication that you're practically being force-fed in order to have the clarity to get the [ __ ] out of there. I mean I don't know about about you Cooper, have you ever been laid up with this amount of like drugs poured into your system? Have you had that kind of devastating injury in your life? I hope not. I luckily I no I have not I mean you know I I got my wisdom teeth pulled once and and you know there was quite a few drugs in me then um yeah I I I couldn't be I couldn't imagine being forced in you know >> and the quick withdrawal method I don't recommend. I once had my gallbladder taken out at a rather not well-run hospital and I kept uh hitting the um put drugs in me button and uh the pain only got worse and worse uh until my then girlfriend now wife wandered in and said, "What's all that brown stuff running down your arm?" And it turns out that all the medication was not in my arm. It was just laying outside of it.

[00:18:16]>> Oh my gosh. My mattress was the highest mattress in the entire hospital.

[00:18:22]You told me that story. I still can't get over it. You know, only I can have that kind of luck, weirdly enough. Um, but yes, I I just I don't that's one of those things that King runs into and out of throughout his career of both dealing with drug use and alcohol use that he he feels he needs and then later on in life being hit by a van out of nowhere and being laid up in a hospital where he also can't get out and having to admit that he is powerless and he's going to have to take some drugs at some point in order to be able to get over these injuries. It's weird how often it weaves itself into his work. Not weird because he's writing the truth.

[00:19:09]>> Is that where he wrote Did he write Misery in in that bed?

[00:19:13]>> No, this comes out in ' 87. So, we're a full decade and a half until that incident. Um, he's pretty much sober by the time this movie comes out. There are books he doesn't remember writing like Kujo. He does not remember writing. He doesn't remember writing portions of Pet Cemetery.

[00:19:33]>> These these make sense for books he did not remember writing because of how unhinged those those stories are.

[00:19:39]>> But you can also feel that when he very much is control of that news with things like Christine whereas where there's this ghostly presence in the back of him telling him what he needs to do. He's he's at the wheel, but he's not really driving.

[00:19:56]>> That's Christine. Like, it's all there.

[00:19:57]It's all woven into his works both during his addiction phase and after.

[00:20:03]And then of course you have to really watch Maximum Overdrive to get a full sense of what a completely coked up Stephen King is because that movie there's lines in the road and there's lines in the script and then there's lines that ended up in the budget of the movie. Cooper, just watch the preview of him talking to camera. Have you ever seen that?

[00:20:30]>> No. And I I'm going to go watch it right after this. Do yourself a favor. Stephen King trailer for maximum overdrive to camera and you will see a man who is gone.

[00:20:44]>> His pupils are uh are are basically pin pricks in it. He is completely fried out of his mind. It's amazing.

[00:20:52]>> It's kind of beautiful. Um there's a reason why he hasn't directed a movie since.

[00:20:56]>> Cuz how do you mess with how how do you top perfection?

[00:20:59]>> That's true.

[00:21:01]There's there's only so many movies in which a a man is set up for death by getting uh hit in the crotch with a Dr. Pepper kit.

[00:21:10]>> I still love that scene so much. I love it.

[00:21:14]>> You know, we only have so much choose your own death venture here. We could just go back to do the choose your own death venture maximum overdrive and entertain ourselves for hours.

[00:21:22]>> A scroll. What the other component of this that's very obvious um is that you have a Stephen King at the moment of writing this who feels a little trapped by his own creations. Yes, his novels have brought him financial security and fame and opportunity, but also he's not really able at at this moment in time. he does not feel free to do every sort of creative pursuit he wants to. Um, the idea the core idea of this book comes in the aftermath of him releasing Eyes of the Dragon, which is a gunslinger adjacent high fantasy novel that left some of his core fans at that moment in time perplexed and vocally wishing he would just stick to what they wanted him to do, >> which is which is crazy cuz that's actually one of my favorite books of his. I think time, you know, heals all wounds in that respect. I I think people will appreciate it. He wanted to write something that he could read to his kids. I don't think this is a bad idea, and it's certainly not a bad novel, and it's not that far a field of stuff that he ends up doing. Let's say, it's not that different from Wizard and Glass.

[00:22:38]It's just no one's running around with the six shooter in it, but it's got some of the same characters in it. I mean, I guess for you, Cooper, you come out of an internet comedy world and now all of a sudden you guys are veering into a very horrorheavy side of a career. And while I don't think it's that big of a leap now, at certain points, it was like all they could talk about when it came to Jordan Peele's career. Can you believe the man who was once funny now makes scary?

[00:23:11]>> I know. It's insane.

[00:23:12]>> So, do you feel and and the internet the most normal place in the world?

[00:23:19]So, do you feel like you have maybe a portion of the sketch comedy fans who feel like they've turned their back on me, the real fan of his career?

[00:23:31]>> I feel like we have, you know, that I think a lot of our our our comedy audience, they they love horror and same same with the horror to the comedy. It's funny like like our our YouTube channel found us through horror and then our our Instagram and Tik Tok following found us through comedy and they they both uh discovered the other thing. And I >> I think um they they love it. They love it all. And and and we blend um you know we blend we blend the both together and and that's why these Jordan Peele and Zack Kger films work so much because comedy and horror go hand in hand. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm I'm excited for the ones who there there's still so many people in the comedy side who haven't realized that uh Obsession is, you know, Curry's movie and and I'm in it. And uh I I'm I mean, they're they're going to be surprised and I I can't wait for I I think they're going to love it and have there's going to be a lot of laughs and if they don't like horror, they're going to I think they're going to love it by the end. Uh, well, it does the thing that I feel like Peele and Creger have captured before and what the best horror comedy has done in the past in that horror and comedy, they're both a laughter and and being scared and shock are involuntary reactions.

[00:24:53]The you are you are pushed into laughter, you are pushed into being scared by stimuli. So, they're not that far a field as it is. If you understand the rhythms of one, it shouldn't be that hard to understand the rhythms of the other. And I would say up until the past 10 years, that's been harder that that had been difficult to translate to some degree. Or you had people who were doing horror comedies who either leaned in one direction or the other and did not and found the other side distasteful.

[00:25:24]>> Yes, I agree.

[00:25:25]>> So you end up with a I hate to mention this, a national lampoon's class reunion.

[00:25:34]one of the bins of our existence here.

[00:25:37]>> I think you're you have a slight case of PTSD from watching that and and then talking about it.

[00:25:44]>> A movie so good, so influential, you can find it on the internet archive and nowhere else.

[00:25:52]>> Watch it on your phone the way the way God intended.

[00:25:56]Patrick, if I could bring it back to uh you you comparing you this to you the modern internet climate as it were.

[00:26:06]Yeah. I actually uh reread the book uh for the first time in over a decade last year and found that the most you know unsettling part about it is now understanding how many Annies there are out there in the world and how many Annies are currently as we speak about this encouraging each other you know and letting them know there's that there's no you know there's no bridge too far in giving your favorite, you know, actor, your favorite singer, your favorite writer, your opinion, and expressing that that it's perfectly appropriate to accost them in public or to call them by their actual, you know, you know, you know, government issued name instead of their stage name or I don't know to call their parents' house and like this has become not if not normalized then at least, you know, not as unthinkable as it would have been around 40 years ago when misery was being made.

[00:27:07]I >> I think beyond normalization, it is something we accept as part of society and >> yeah, you know, to the point where they, you know, often when celebrities, you know, talk about, you know, well, you know, I need to take a break because people are very defensive of that. We're like, well, this is what you signed up for, you know, having your your loved ones harassed because because you decided you wanted to become a professional singer. And it's just like really very unforgivable and and it's very, you know, you know, from a modern standpoint, it's a you know, it's it's an even, you know, it's a it's a precient story and it hits, you know, even you know, harder and more eerily now than it did when it first came out.

[00:27:50]I mean, if anything, I think what Annie Wilks, uh, you know, at the time, the idea of an obsessed fan might have been semi- new, but what it really comes down to now is that Annie Wilks is the internet, that no matter what the subject matter is, whether it's the pit or heated rivalry or we can all name like a half a dozen pop culturally relevant, you know, pieces of media at any given point and there is this candra of people who believe they own it. They don't like what you're doing with it and quite frankly you're bad and wrong for even trying something. And so Cooper, as someone taking on two subject, you know, genres that people are completely normal about at all times, is that ever in the back of your mind in terms of how is someone going to react to what we think is a good fun idea or do you just not let yourself go in that direction? I feel like that would be self-editing, but I want to sp speak for you.

[00:28:59]>> Yeah. No, I I I never let myself We never let ourselves go in that direction. And I I think everybody's react everybody reacts differently. We when we made this when we made Obsession the I I I didn't find the script to be that comedic. my charact my character Ian's a little a bit of a comedic character best friend but but like you know and he had a few a few little bits but but when we go when we watched in the theater I mean the things that people were reacting to like even the uncomfortable stuff like you just can't you can't predict it you can't you never know what what you're going to laugh at or be scared at. I I find certain things funnier than than my sister does, you know, like in I don't know. Like some people think it's the most terrifying thing ever and others are are completely amused. It's I don't know. Everybody's different. So yeah, I don't I don't really think too much on it. You you you just let it you you put it out there and just let it be whatever it's supposed to be.

[00:29:59]>> I this stage in my life I find everything that I enjoy just to be celebration.

[00:30:04]>> So what something scares the hell out of me, it's clapping and smiling. And when some I enjoy something, it's laughing, clapping, and smiling.

[00:30:12]There there is a scene there's a scene in a movie where where people are just clapping when I don't know you want to clap at that in real life but in a movie maybe.

[00:30:21]>> Exactly. Right. Because there's also these horrific things that you are also know are just underneath the surface there that how can you allow yourself to feel that way about this situation? But ultimately that's why we're exercising it on screen.

[00:30:40]We're allowing people to feel through media so that maybe when they have the opportunity to uh have empathy towards somebody else or go a different direction rather than maybe something they've seen on screen. I think it's uh Annie is such a uh terrifically odd concoction of elements and that King was able to crystallize that so much in the book and yet William Goldman who at this point was a screenplay Hollywood legend with like Butch Cassidy and bride marathon man all the president's men and of course magic one of the few successful killer ventiloquist dummy movies of all time.

[00:31:24]>> I'm always pleasantly surprised when I remember, oh, that movie is actually good and and with a book first.

[00:31:31]>> I hear they're doing a remake of that as well.

[00:31:33]>> They uh Remy has been saying he's going to remake that for like eight, nine years. And I'm just like, come on, man.

[00:31:40]Just like make this happen. I need to see this. I need to see someone else take on Killer Ventriloquist dummy movie. Um, especially because the the ventrilquist dummy is named Fats. I just want someone to refer to him as Fats throughout the movie cuz I found it [ __ ] hilarious when I watched it the first time and it's not going to get any better the second. Um, also, Magic has one of the scariest television commercials of all time. Look up Magic TV commercial after we're done here, Cooper.

[00:32:14]>> Okay. and you'll see something that frightened children of a certain age to the point where they needed to talk about it. Our friend Rodney Asher, who uh has been on the show before, did Room 237, has an entire little short movie about people's reactions to that TV uh commercial, and it's incredible.

[00:32:38]>> I got to see this thing.

[00:32:41]>> It is amazing. We we did a we did a commercial. It's not as scary, but it's really gripping for the one wish willow an obsession. I don't know if you've seen it. It's >> I did see it. Yes.

[00:32:51]>> It's Yeah, I'm sure it's like that. That sounds awesome.

[00:32:55]>> One thing that that that he brings to this that Goldman does bring to this is the sort of like we need to keep this grounded. It can't be super fantastical.

[00:33:06]It has to be simple. It all takes place here. And then there's this side story over off to the side that we kind of go to so that we add an outside pressure to an inside pressure. But how he's able to sort of crystallize King's book down to the bare essentials, I think it's part of what gives this power because I think here's the deal. I love a big movie. You love a big movie. Everyone loves a big movie. But at its core, the best movies have a kind of simplicity to them that it gives you something to hold on to.

[00:33:43]>> Yeah.

[00:33:43]>> And what I think Misery and Obsession and movies of their ilk do best is really decide what that simple story they they want to tell is and tell it to the best of their ability.

[00:33:57]>> Yes. And take it in completely insane directions. And and that's what makes it memorable. and fun. Both of those movies, >> part of what is so enduring about the film is you're you get to see two people who are very good at their jobs just be able to [ __ ] act against one another.

[00:34:18]No holds barred. They're given very clear directions to head in. There's a very clear story to tell. And because Annie is so unhinged throughout this, you're just unmed.

[00:34:33]What will she react to next? And if you don't understand what she's going to react to next, how can Paul avoid the pitfalls of what she's going to freak out about whenever she does and what will she do next? The one thing I I suppose the movie cuts out that I wish it had a little bit more of is establishing sort of some of the stakes of when she leaves for two days, she's gone for two days. He's no food, no water, >> right? Yeah.

[00:35:02]>> No way to get out of that bed, he's trapped. Trapped. And we get glimpses of it, but we don't necessarily get the full breath of it because how do you necessarily convey that in a movie?

[00:35:15]Well, it's interesting that you point out that, you know, she's so unhinged and at the same time she's able to remain in control of her faculties when she needs to.

[00:35:24]>> Yeah.

[00:35:24]>> And so there's a certain sort of, you know, how much, you know, like like for instance, like when she figures out how he's getting out of the room, >> I mean, that's just like, oh, that's she she doesn't miss anything. She she's not that crazy. like you know you yeah she's definitely you know unstable but you know she's not like hearing voices and and hallucinating crazy like she's still she's wy too it's almost like faulty wiring like it there's still current running through there but you don't necessarily know what's going to make it shortcircuit and when it does she it makes it quite clear she is capable of some terrifying behaviors before we even meet her. She is a serial killer. And now that she has the object of her intellectual and eventually emotional affection, she's willing to do just about anything to make sure he stays exactly where he's supposed to be.

[00:36:27]What What do you think would happen if if Annie had a One Wish Willow from Obsession? Listener, one wish Willow, you make a wish, it comes true. What do you do you think? I I'd love to see a spin-off now of where she she gets one of those just just to and and see what would happen. I I I Do you think she'd like it?

[00:36:46]>> In in a way, she kind of does. And this is something we've talked about occasionally and it was really introduced by Jordan Peele, weirdly enough. And nope, that the idea of the bad miracle.

[00:36:58]>> Yeah.

[00:36:58]>> Right. The the One Wish Willow is a bad miracle. It causes incredible things to happen.

[00:37:07]that are also terrifying and have horrific repercussions to it. Annie's one wish is to have her favorite author just be in her house dependent on her, the professional nurse, and for him to spend his days writing her the novels she wants to read. So in many respects she gets the the bad miracle and it ends up killing her and to a certain degree Paul Sheldon has a bad miracle that happens to him. He loses control of his car in a snowstorm and goes off the side of the road and in any other circumstance would be dead because he would be trapped with two shattered legs unable to exercise himself from a snowedin car. But he happens to have his biggest fan trailing him in a car. She doesn't happen to find him. She is following him. So yes, he lives. That's the miracle. The bad part is he lives in a in a jail cell of her making that he is unable to get himself out of uh up until the very end. So in many respects like it kind of they they kind of work.

[00:38:32]But on the other half of that, what I feel like she might want to do is snap that and say, "I'm not Annie Wilks. I am Misery Chastain."

[00:38:43]>> Do you think she actually wants to be the character or just kind of live in her world?

[00:38:47]>> I think live in her world.

[00:38:49]>> Because she her concept of what that would be would be I want to be Misery Chastain. I think she would wants to be Misery Chastain but without the you know because Annie strikes me as a very like she doesn't want Paul there because you know she I mean she does tell she does gradually fall in love with him. Yeah.

[00:39:07]>> But I think for her it's a very you know chasteed old-fashioned kind of love. I don't think she has any any you know real intent on you know conservating if you want to call that anything. Yes. But like so it just you know it's just part of her bizarre sort of you know delusional fantasy very child almost childlike viewpoint on things where you know there's ugly things and there's beautiful things and and you know nothing ever you you know nothing ever falls between or either one or the other. It is a very literary romance idea that she has. Like she is so wrapped up in the idea of like who will misery end up with. But if she had two people to choose from, she would like what? Like who to kill first? I'm not really sure. What are you asking me to do here? I don't think there's a real life romantic bone in her body necessarily.

[00:40:01]>> I think this is just the, you know, this is the most reading these books is, you know, the most exciting thing that happens to her. And it's because, oddly enough, for someone who definitely wants to be in charge, she is not in charge of what happens in those novels. She's being told a story. It's what she likes.

[00:40:21]And what she doesn't like is when the story goes in a direction she does not care for. She feels hurt. She feels wronged in that direction. And so when he, you know, presents a book like, "Hey, this is, you know, this partially based on my real life," she's like, "Well, this is [ __ ] terrible. How dare you write these words down? This is this goes against everything I've ever wanted from you. How dare you try to express yourself in a way I don't care for?"

[00:40:54]>> And and again, I bring you back to you see that on social media all the time now. It's it's not considered crazy or unusual. This is just how fans feel entitled to react now where you know any deviation. I mean look at like you know George RR Martin like like the man does not get you know has not known peace in 20 years and we'll never know peace you know you know if he dies without finishing with the winds of winter is one that everybody's waiting on like people are going to go to his cause say you know why didn't you finish the winds of winter before you died you know they're just you I keep going back to the word entitlement you know Annie feels entitled to Paul just turnurning out misery book after misery book after misery book cuz that's what you do for your fans.

[00:41:45]>> Yeah.

[00:41:46]>> Anything else is is is ingratitude for your success.

[00:41:49]>> Well, it's a weird thing to get trapped in. And I say trapped and I put that in dick fingers.

[00:41:56]We we've done we started this podcast because we wanted to talk about Friday the 13th characters and I didn't think anything would come of it. I just my wife said talk about this with somebody else. And so I found Gina and I talked about it with her for two and a half years and then we just kind of kept doing it because it's fun to talk to one another. The fact that we have fans and we've, you know, been doing this for so long and that the that fandom can be anywhere from I started listening last week to I listen from episode one is insane.

[00:42:30]And that's all you would ever want is to do things that people want to engage with that cause them to smile or get scared or that made me think. And the very idea that they would then use that against you like how dare you, you cause this emotional reaction inside of me.

[00:42:51]Maybe I want you dead is so wild. And yet we see these very small versions of it. so often in internet interactions um that uh it's kind of wild that all of us aren't crazy. I mean, do you feel that in some way, shape, or form, Cooper? I don't want to put words into >> Yeah. Yeah. feel a little crazy sometimes.

[00:43:17]>> Yeah. It's And uh to what to what you were saying about um making something that people want to engage with, same goes for the online stuff.

[00:43:26]Do you get a little reticent in this day and age? You know, we all want to make something that people want to get at, but there's also this other side of the coin where eventually someone's going to take something a little too far. Even if that's a even if that's a threat, even that's like a I say words to you online and I I feel when that has happened to me was violently against my weird Friday the 13th opinion or whatever. I'm like I certainly didn't want to cause you distress. That's not what I came on here to do, but also why are we taking this so [ __ ] serious? We'll have to have a check-in and and maybe in a year you ask me that question again, maybe a different answer, you know. You never know. There there but but there has there has been some everybody's really nice. I don't know.

[00:44:23]Online everything. Yeah, we we'll I don't know. We'll see what happens. But um I I try not to worry about those things. I try to I leave it out of my mind. And >> I think that's a good attitude. I think you think positively and don't don't don't overthink it. You know, you you won't end up like Paul.

[00:44:43]>> The good news is there is the horror community on the whole is this incredibly warm and embracing place that just wants a good scary movie to watch, right?

[00:44:55]>> And so people try to do that.

[00:44:59]And then there's some pockets out there like all fandoms that tend towards the fanatical and you kind like I don't like you begin to wonder what curdled what what what are you if you don't like it anymore.

[00:45:18]My guess is just stop trying to consume it as much probably. I felt this way a little bit with Star Wars when the prequels came out. I'm like, "These movies aren't for me."

[00:45:29]>> You know what? Maybe I should like not care about like they're fine for people who like them and I don't. So, it's not really why would I make it a problem and I'm just going to walk away from this and then something else caught my fancy.

[00:45:44]And I think there's a power to not liking something as much as there's a power to loving something. Uh, and it it drives people crazy on the internet because they have a voice. Not that I want to take it away from them, but considering what they do sometimes, I think about it.

[00:46:05]>> Yeah.

[00:46:06]>> Um, we would be remiss talking about this movie without aside the fact that it is a two-hander. There's a side movie that happens here that I very much enjoy uh with Richard Farnsworth and Francis Sternhagen and they're playing uh what we first believe to be bickering officemates of a town small town sheriff and his his sirly uh secretary and then learn no this is a married couple who are have a very active and fruitful sex life. Uh but uh it adds a dimension uh to this movie.

[00:46:48]They are so delightful in so many ways.

[00:46:51]And Farnsworth is just like he's like butter on toast. He just it's perfect.

[00:46:57]And then Francis Sternhagen.

[00:47:00]I love this woman. No one has been as delightfully sirly on camera as much as Francis Sternhagen. She in particular is really good in Outland. Have either of you seen Outland?

[00:47:14]>> I have not. Oh, wait, wait, wait. The one with Shan Connory?

[00:47:17]>> Yes.

[00:47:17]>> Okay. Yeah, I I have seen that. Yeah.

[00:47:19]>> So, it's basically High Noon in outer space and she plays the town doctor in outer space who like learns that the company is is is feeding their space miners drugs and Sean Connory is trying to stop it. And basically the whole time she's like, "Don't [ __ ] with these people. This is bad news. You should stop doing this. She's like the voice of reason, but very sarcastic reason. And it's every time she does it to Shan Connory, you see this look on his face like I've never let a woman talk to me that way. And it rules. It has such a wonderful dimension to this that she gets away with insulting him right to his face. I love it. Um, but she brings a lot of that Outland energy into this.

[00:48:11]Of course, Outland most famous to me as being my favorite Mad Magazine parody of all time and it just complaining about it being gross because people explode in outer space. That being said, Farnsworth and Sternhagen uh fantastic in this movie. these little side comedy characters that bring needed sort of relief from the tension of what's happening between Annie and Paul.

[00:48:39]Um, it's just a really necessary light touch that I think Rob Reiner had such an ability to make these side characters come to life. can name all the things in that golden period of his where he would have these great little characters who would pop because he just he hired the right people and he made sure they had the right words and he gave them the runway to take off >> and they weren't in the book were they not in the book?

[00:49:09]>> He they not those character names but there is a sheriff.

[00:49:13]>> Um >> he brought he brought his own his own magic to those those two.

[00:49:18]>> Yes. I think he humanizes them in a way >> that then >> made him pull back from what their endings are in the book because in the ending that police figure is run over by a riding riding lawnmower. I I was going to say, do you think the movie lacked from from not including that scene? I >> I I do remember that character being in the book being much younger though, not not like not like an elderly sheriff.

[00:49:48]>> He's much more spry, so that's not an issue. And I think there is some credence given to him because um weirdly enough, there's another guy who shows up in this um oh, my mind is leaving me. JT Walsh. JT Walsh is in this as basically that state trooper character who's saying we think Paul Sheldon's dead and Farnsworth is like I don't think that's happened because there's no way this would have where would he have gone we would have found the body blah blah blah but the sheriff's name is his nickname is Buster and JT Walsh in Needful Things plays a character named Buster there.

[00:50:36]Stephen King universe, baby. In the book, what I like about what happens in the movie is it's so sudden where you think redemption is here and it's so final and sudden. I don't think you would have that with him being hobbled on the lawn and being run over by a by a lawnmower. as delightful as that would have been.

[00:51:00]Um, yeah, you got to save something for the lawn mower, man. I guess.

[00:51:04]>> Yeah, >> sure. Why not? The only thing we don't get is then a weird homoculi sitting on the lawn eating grass, which is what happens in the lawnmower, man.

[00:51:16]We're not going to talk about that movie, Gina. We're not going to talk about that movie.

[00:51:20]>> No, don't stop asking.

[00:51:22]>> Okay, I will.

[00:51:23]>> Not you.

[00:51:24]the the listeners, >> they want to see us go insane like they did with Jason X. Um, so any other element here of misery that we didn't get a chance to talk about that you just got to bring up, Cooper?

[00:51:38]>> Not really. Um, no. Yeah, this has been great. Have you guys I I will say if you haven't Castle Rock, have you seen that show on Hulu?

[00:51:50]>> Oh, yes.

[00:51:51]>> It's fantastic. in season two follows Annie Wils, her her backstory. And I think for anybody who hasn't seen that show and want a little bit more misery in Annie Wilks, go watch that show.

[00:52:03]>> It is a very good show.

[00:52:04]>> Pulls off an incredible magic trick.

[00:52:06]Like the fact that they're able to make that character both someone you can root for and understand over the course of 10 episodes is incredible.

[00:52:17]And you get this mix of that and and Salem's Lot and the Jerusalem's Lot short story.

[00:52:24]>> Stephen King universe, baby.

[00:52:26]>> Stephen King universe.

[00:52:28]>> We love a Sund Dog reference here on the show.

[00:52:32]>> Uh Gina, anything that you need to get off your chest about Misery?

[00:52:36]>> I mean, if you if you haven't seen it yet, what in the world are you waiting for? Truly, >> it's just such a like I said, in addition to the the eerie precience of it, just just a a Kathy Bates is amazing. I I absolutely remember just being so excited when she won best actress. It was the very first time uh a an actress had won for a horror movie and it was 1991, >> right?

[00:53:03]>> Wow.

[00:53:04]>> Yeah. It's kind of crazy.

[00:53:07]Um, so it is now time. Uh, what is also crazy is choosing your own death venture. And that's where we decide. Of the deaths betrayed in misery. If you're forced to die in one of those ways, which one would it be and why? Up forbid. It's a very short list, but very important. You can get shot in the back out through the front with the shotgun or you can get clocked in the head with a uh a typewriter. a violent struggle gets out um and uh you get shot along the way and then you're knocked out headirst into that same typewriter and bleed out on the floor and uh or is there anything else she gets pounded with? Gina, >> I mean that's a pretty chaotic scene, but I think I think ultimately the the the you falling and hitting her head on the typewriter is what does it?

[00:53:54]>> It's hard to come back from that. And so if you were forced to choose that that which Death Venture you'd want, Cooper, which one would he choose? I I feel like I'd go go shotgun just not see it coming. I think it just quicker, a little cleaner for me.

[00:54:09]>> Yeah. I mean, you're you're your last thought is, huh? And then you're pretty much done with it.

[00:54:15]>> Uh Gina, what say you?

[00:54:17]>> Um you know, while it would be on brand for me to fall and and die from hitting my head on a typewriter, I I too would prefer not to see it coming. So, I'm also going to take a shotgun blast to the back. Yeah, there's no way I'm getting repeatedly pummeled with a typewriter. That's especially if it's missing an N. Uh I I need that N to be part of it.

[00:54:38]>> You know that you know that thing you know that thing weighed like 65 lbs too.

[00:54:42]>> True.

[00:54:42]>> It's like a doors stop.

[00:54:45]>> Uh yes. And I definitely would rather I hobbling or getting your foot chopped off via axe and then uh blowtorrched, which is the way it happens in the book.

[00:54:55]They're neither are good choices. and your thumb gets cut off.

[00:54:58]>> And your thumb gets taken off because she doesn't like a chapter >> and then threatens him with castration later.

[00:55:05]>> She's really taken him piece by piece.

[00:55:07]Yeah, that's wild. Uh Cooper, you've got a movie. It's out in theaters as of this dropping in people's podcast feeds. Why don't you tell people about it? Yeah, you know, the movie is it's a a magical film about a guy who makes a wish that his best friend would fall in love with him, and he suffers the consequences of of what happens, you know, when you're not careful for what you wish for. I I play Ian, his best friend, in that film, and uh it's out now. It's it's directed by my written and directed by my friend Curry Barker and starring Indian Avaretti, Michael Johnson, Megan Lawless, myself, and it's fantastic.

[00:55:50]It's it's a lot of fun and uh go check it out.

[00:55:53]>> Excellent. Uh I highly recommend it.

[00:55:56]It's a fantastic uh film that uh delivers on exactly what it promises to be, which I always enjoy watching and some fantastic performances, some standout sequences that will leave people squirming. It's good stuff. Gina, where can people find you on these here internets?

[00:56:12]>> To everyone's undoubted relief, I am not appearing in a movie anytime soon. Uh, I uh have a newsletter in which I talk about movies and pop culture in general.

[00:56:23]Uh, it is Gina Gina watches things at ghost.io and I am mostly on Instagram under Gina Does Things.

[00:56:32]>> Do it today people. Check it out. Find us at screamshare.behive.com.

[00:56:36]That's b e h iv.com. I'm bringing you three streaming recommendations every single weekend so you can let loose of that decision paralysis demon that helps you decide what horror movies to watch.

[00:56:49]And uh find us on our socials everywhere but Twitter. [ __ ] that place. And uh yeah uh join us on Patreon uh where we have three bonus episodes for you every single month. Uh that just about does it. Uh, don't worry folks, the body count will continue for myself, Gina, and Cooper. Bye-bye everybody.

[00:57:09]>> Bye.

[00:57:10]>> See you later.

[00:57:11]>> They're all gonna laugh at you.

[00:57:18]>> If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe.

[00:57:23]It really does help the show to grow.

[00:57:25]Thank you for listening.