Unlocking Soil Secrets (& Science) with Brandon Rust

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]I was taken away from my mother when I was about 3 and a half and I was put into foster care system by CPS and they put me in a home that basically their whole sole purpose was to torture children and used to have this reoccurring nightmare about being in an abandoned like amusement park like a post-apocalypt type scenario. Last medication that I was on made me feel like a zombie or like I was on autopilot like it would suppress all feeling and emotions. We had a band room set up and we'd go get 40 ounces for all of us and a dime bag of Mexican brick weed and we would get faded and that was like our thing and that's what put me on my like actual journey into cannabis cultivation really early. I've always loved science.

[00:00:44]I've been that kid that's always taking things apart to figure out how they function.

[00:01:05]Welcome back to the Bioactive Podcast.

[00:01:07]Today we have a amazing guest that I'm excited to learn from. We have Brandon Rust. And before we even get into this, do some people call you Russ Brandon and some people call you Brandon Russ? cuz I feel like I've seen it both ways. But maybe that's just um >> So people sometimes call me Russ Brandon just because that is my main Instagram profile because Brandon Rust was already taken when I signed up.

[00:01:32]>> Oh, okay. That makes a lot of sense. But we are going to talk about some soil science. We are going to talk about aonomy. We are going to talk about all of the nerdy ends of growing plants because Brandon is an expert in this.

[00:01:45]And you also have a really cool life story. Do you mind kind of just diving into what got you involved with the cannabis plant and also what got you interested in the science aspect of cannabis?

[00:01:57]>> So, um I have like, you know, an unbelievable story. It'll probably become a book eventually.

[00:02:06]>> I hope so. Um, but I was taken away from my mother when I was about three and a half and I was put into foster care system by CPS and they put me in a home that basically their whole sole purpose was to torture children. And so I was I went through an extreme amount of abuse in a short period of time. Like just terrible [ __ ] Um, >> I'm sorry about that. That's >> and you know the foster home got raided by the sheriff's department and then I I ended up back in Illinois with my mom's foster family and then they put me back into the system. Was out there for a little bit. They're like we can't keep them. Got put back into the system and then I was taken in by a lady that had two daughters and already had a son but her son passed away. So there's a bunch of trauma there. But like when I was like six, they like made me see a psychologist.

[00:03:03]And this was a terrible time to be a kid having to go to a psychologist because in the late '8s there was a bunch of new pharmaceutical medications for all types of stuff for all these new syndromes, right? Which are not real things. They're just madeup conditions so that the pharmaceutical companies can sell people products. And so like I I suffered from like really really strange things. One of the things was like I would have like a bruising.

[00:03:30]I'd have handprints on my body, right, that they couldn't explain. They kept saying that I was doing it all and I swore to them. I was like, "It's not me.

[00:03:38]I'm telling you guys." And they just wouldn't believe me when I would tell them stuff. And then I always had this like problem when I went to sleep because I would suffer from habitual night terrors, like just really really gnarly things. And and I used to have this reoccurring nightmare about being in an abandoned like amusement park, like a post-apocalypt type scenario. And >> I can picture it. Yeah.

[00:04:03]>> I was being chased by wolves through this park >> and it would always progress. And the dream was terrible. It would always start where it left off >> and the whole point of this was to get to the man with the gun, right? That was the whole point. Like I had to find the man with the gun because only the man with the gun in the logic of this dream.

[00:04:22]>> Yeah.

[00:04:23]>> Only the man with the gun was going to be able to protect me from the wolves.

[00:04:27]But I tried to explain like these things that were happening to me and they I don't know if they didn't understand it, but they put me on medication, right? So from really early age I was like on you you [ __ ] name it. I mean, I was on everything from Paxel, Rolin, Zoloft. I was on anti-depressants, anti- schizophrenics, and basically, you know, my whole life, these people were telling me, "You're messed up. You got this." I was being gaslit for years.

[00:04:57]>> And to your point, like that's such the early like young intervention of pharmaceuticals that you're kind of like the trial generation of like especially stacking pharmaceuticals like that because they're never researched like in combination with each other. They're only researched like individually on a person's mental and physical health.

[00:05:16]>> I think the goal is the way I see it and I don't know if it's intentional or if it is purposely designed that way. But if you can get somebody on something at an early age and create chemical dependency for life, that means that those companies are getting profit from that person, you know, they're making money off that person for their whole lives. And so they make up disorders like ADHD, right? Like I was diagnosed with ADHD, but maybe the problem is that you guys are giving me a bowl of sugar in the morning with juice that has a bunch of additives in it and then you're trying to tell me to sit still. Maybe that's that instead of taking accountability. Often times they would say that the child is at wrong. And it's because an adult doesn't want to be told they're wrong by a child and they'll never take accountability. They'll never look at their actions or at least in my experience. So regardless of how I felt or what I said, I was always in the wrong. And so it caused a lot of animosity towards the system that I was placed in, which I already had a lot of animosity for because the system is the thing that took me away and put me into these abusive situations and they caused all this trauma and chaos. But I became really rebellious and you know, I was like punk rock, dude. I was in it. And when I turned 14, it was the period between eth and ninth grade where you leave middle school and you go into high school. And that summer I started smoking pot.

[00:06:40]And what I quickly realized was there are levels to perception and awareness, right? And some people have elevated perceptions and awareness and they can navigate those ways.

[00:06:52]It basically made me see the box and the structures of everything essentially where like you're taking yourself outside of the space that you were and you're looking at it from a completely new perspective. And so it opened my awareness and I was like, "Oh, this makes sense." And so all the stuff that had accumulatively happened to me, I hadn't figured it out, but I saw it in a different way. And >> just a side note, because the Epstein files were recently like released, wasn't part of it how cannabis consumers were more difficult to manipulate? And I feel like what you're saying is kind of part of that because you get this like awakening when you use cannabis where you see through like the layers of perception and the systems that we're in and you just become like super super aware.

[00:07:37]>> Well, I wouldn't take anything in there for like face value at all. And the reason why is because the whole thing's a giant stop anyway. You have to realize if you have somebody who's working in black ops, if somebody who's working in a honeypot trap, which is those things have existed forever. You know, if you can put somebody in a compromising position, then you can control people.

[00:07:57]And that's nothing new. Now, the whole thing is if you are working with the CIA and you are working with the Mossad, which was the most likely scenario, you have to realize that the whole thing is a SCOP. And so it's like if the Department of Justice who is, you know, people who are in those positions have been compromised, then obviously they're not going to give accurate information because then it would incriminate themselves. It would tear the whole system down. One of the other things too is like it's not a smart idea to go on there and download stuff because the Department of Justice basically said that the majority of the files is just CP. So, if you're going in there and you're digging around and you download something unknowingly and then all of a sudden the FBI has a warrant for your arrest because they didn't like something you said, but you have this thing on the computer and they know that and they've been tracking it. Well, that's what I would do if I was involved in an organization that wanted to basically entrap people. And again, I think the whole thing has been planned and laid out really, really intelligently.

[00:08:59]>> I've not even thought of it like that.

[00:09:01]as you said, there's layers to this [ __ ] and you're a layer deeper than I am. So, thanks for that perspective. Also, sorry not to derail your story. I tend to do that while people are talking. So, um sorry, continue. It just changed my perception. And you know, the last medication that I was on was something called I think a fexer and it made me feel like a zombie or like I was on autopilot like it would suppress all feeling and emotions and I was just kind of like floating through everything and I didn't like that. And so I refused then and there. I'm not taking these anymore. And it caused a ton of issue with my foster mom. And not only that, I was like super rebellious and I was in a punk rock band and you know that's when I started drinking and doing LSD and eating mushrooms and we were doing the most really young. I mean, we would party so hard and it was and completely facilitated because at that particular time, you know, one of my best friends, his parents got a divorce and so his dad moved out of the house and then after his dad moved out of the house, his mom moved to a completely different city with her boyfriend and just left basically left him there.

[00:10:12]play.

[00:10:13]>> We had a band room set up and we were stuffing the change machines and the soda machines at the school with wet paper towels so nobody would get their change out and then at the end of the day we'd go unclog those things and we'd go get 40 ounces for all of us and a dime bag of Mexican brick weed and we would get faded and that was like our thing and it wasn't healthy at all. I mean looking back I had no direction, right? I was completely lost in life.

[00:10:39]And well, I felt like I had found the secret with weed and with psychedelics.

[00:10:43]It really wasn't until I was 36 that I actually got my [ __ ] together.

[00:10:48]>> Wow. Well, you got to live a lot of different lives during that time. I mean, drugs will teach you something whether it's good or bad. Um, and >> I mean, >> I did a bunch of uh jail time. I did a couple prison terms for cannabis. Um, >> damn. For cannabis. Do you mind asking?

[00:11:05]Was it for distributing or growing or?

[00:11:08]>> Yeah, cultivation sales and theft of electricity was my second like time I was charged with something, but that was the first time I caught like a prison sentence.

[00:11:16]>> Theft of electricity for the grow lights.

[00:11:19]>> Yeah.

[00:11:20]>> Yeah.

[00:11:21]>> Yeah. So, um, when I was 15, I started kind of disassociating myself from the system and stuff, but I knew that I could get in trouble if I didn't finish school. and I got expelled from my school district and I got put into like a rehab school or whatever, >> but I did 180 credits. So, I did basically my whole entire 11th and 12th grade year >> uh in in 3 months at this place. And so, like when I was in 10th grade, I basically finished high school, right?

[00:11:52]And then alls I did is I like was missing like one econ class and I did that at an adult ed school. So that way I knew I couldn't get in trouble. And I like started working like I started working when I was 12, you know? So I already had jobs, but I was like I had a regular full-time job. I had an apartment. I was like doing my thing, just regular working. And this was like, you know, before I was 18, but I lost all my [ __ ] I was homeless for a little while. And then finally when I turned 18, I got in contact with my biological parents, >> right? So I got a hold of my mom. She was messed up. You know, she's strung out on heroin and crystal methamphetamines and she is in a really bad position. But she came down the next day regardless >> to come see me.

[00:12:41]>> But what happened was she gave me my father's information and my father got a life sentence. He shot and killed somebody in 1996 and then went on like a crazy rampage where he hijacked a car and then was shooting at the cops and he ran through a police barricade.

[00:12:58]>> So he got into a big old shootout and stuff and it was like on live TV. I saw it >> when I was 12. I watched it on TV which is crazy. And then when I turned 18 I actually got a hold of him and I wrote to him and he wrote me back from prison.

[00:13:12]He's like, "You need to go meet up with, you know, some of my younger friends which were older than me."

[00:13:18]>> Yeah.

[00:13:18]>> Right. And so I did. And that's what put me on my like actual journey into cannabis cultivation really early. So right when I turned 18, I went down and I met some of my dad's friends. And these guys were the OGs that were essentially had already been doing indoor cultivation since the, you know, since the late 80s.

[00:13:39]>> Wow.

[00:13:40]And so these guys had rooms already dialed out. They had multiple places. I mean, they were doing the thing and they had a whole crew, right? And so basically what happened was I met these guys and then they put me to work doing all the [ __ ] work, you know, weed whacking their yards and washing their dogs.

[00:13:57]>> Not even cannabis related. Like they were doing like the chores.

[00:14:01]>> No, they made me put in work before anything. I was like a gopher. They basically made me prospect. When you think about it, I was almost like a prospect for a motorcycle club because the way that they treated me, right?

[00:14:12]Like I had to prove my worth to these people before they ever even opened a [ __ ] door. You know what I mean?

[00:14:18]Before they I mean I knew what they were doing. They knew that I knew what they were doing, but they wanted to test my merit >> and didn't want to like release their secrets to just some rando kid that didn't know what their relationship was going to be. Well, you know, the guy that taught me like he did some [ __ ] with my dad, too. Like my dad was a [ __ ] gangster, you know, and they >> did wheelings and dealings all the time.

[00:14:45]And apparently my mannerisms and I look exactly like my dad. So, they took me in, but again, it took a little while, but eventually I remember one day they're like, "We got a job for you, kid." They used to call me the kid and they're like, "We need you to go over to one of the spots and we need you to cut open a galvanized steel conduit with 120,000 volts of electricity so that way we can tap into the power." And I said, "Fuck it. Let's go."

[00:15:14]>> And so, you know how to do that?

[00:15:16]>> Dude, that was my in. I knew if I did it, that was it. I was [ __ ] in.

[00:15:21]>> And so they blindfolded me. They put me in the back of dirty hairy suburban.

[00:15:26]They drove me out to the [ __ ] spot, you know? They didn't take the blindfold off until I got inside the house, right? And then and I remember these specific details like it was yesterday.

[00:15:38]Like the living room was right on the right hand side and then if you just go straight forward, it leads into the kitchen, but there's a door right on the left. And they walked me to that door and they opened it up and it was a checkerboard HPS metal halli setup with you know was four thies in there. They had 36 plants and two gallon buckets and eb and flow draining bucket one of those old blue systems and the plants were taller than me and I was like yo this is incredible. I remember I said to myself when they took that blindfold off me in front of that door I was like I made it.

[00:16:16]I finally made it. This is it.

[00:16:18]>> That's crazy.

[00:16:20]>> And so, you know, I ended up, it was the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. I used a little Dremel with a little disc in there to cut open a little square so that, you know, his partner who was an electrician could gator clamp on and steal that power.

[00:16:36]>> Makes me feel a little better you had an electrician like with you because I'm just like listening.

[00:16:41]>> No, no, they left. It took me about It took me about 5 hours. Yeah, they left.

[00:16:46]They went to go work. They said, you know, [ __ ] get it done. You know, we'll come back in a couple hours. Check on your progress. And a couple of times I nicked the blade into the pipe and the blade broke. And it just my heart would jump. I thought I was going to [ __ ] die.

[00:17:00]>> Oh my god.

[00:17:01]>> Oh man.

[00:17:02]>> You did it. It was >> I just turned the music up, dude. Rocked out. I got it done and that was it. They paid me two grand for the job and then they brought me on board for, you know, they paid me basically $300 a week and they showed me how to run all of their systems. I went to all of the multiple different places and I did that for two years. But I also had an advantage because it opened up my network and because I was younger, I had better connections to get rid of product to people, you know? So like I had all types of clientele, people that wanted to buy packs, right? And now I had all this access. So what it did is it gave me like steady income by 300 bucks a week or whatever, which was [ __ ] money >> compared to all the [ __ ] packs that I was selling.

[00:17:47]>> Yeah. Compared to how much you were actually selling, it's not a lot. But and weed was probably going for a pretty penny back then. Like >> $300 an ounce all the way up. No break.

[00:17:59]>> Yeah. So >> $4,800 a pound.

[00:18:02]>> Yeah. And then if you broke it down after that, >> you were getting, you know, 120 bucks a quarter.

[00:18:09]>> Yeah. Wow.

[00:18:10]>> 200 bucks a half ounce, >> dude. So you've lived like a hundred different lives and you're literally like when I see your videos now, you're talking about like the science of the plant. You're talking about like really niche growing things that are like stuff I learned a lot from all of your videos.

[00:18:28]Where was the jump from the trap weed to where you are now is like I would consider a master grower, cultivator.

[00:18:36]>> Um, I've always loved science. I've been that kid that's always taking things apart to figure out how they function.

[00:18:44]>> Yeah.

[00:18:45]>> And so I've destroyed every single electronic thing that I ever owned as a kid.

[00:18:49]>> You were good at taking them apart but not putting them back together.

[00:18:52]>> I can put most things back together.

[00:18:54]Some of it, no. I remember I completely disassembled a remote control car like you know like a little cordless remote control car.

[00:19:02]>> I didn't together.

[00:19:04]>> Yeah.

[00:19:05]>> But I was also six so >> that's pretty young to be able to do that. So fair.

[00:19:10]>> I won a science fair first place when I was in fourth grade for a research project that I did. I've always loved science. And then when I was 12 I discovered the vastness of the library.

[00:19:21]>> Oh yeah. And I went to the library from the age of 12.

[00:19:26]So, and again this was back in the '9s, 1994 95 when I started going into these uh places. I discovered the occult section which actually changed everything because it gave me like a deep thirst for what you would call narcissism, you know, nosis for knowledge.

[00:19:48]and I learned about ancient cultures and I learned about religion and I learned about history and I learned about magic and I learned about all kinds of stuff.

[00:19:58]So I was always intrigued by that. I've always had this mind of discovery. Um but the thing that drove me into organic cultivation because for 11 years I did that same system with the eb and flow two gallon buckets you know same exact style >> what you were taught. What drove me to change my style was basically um I had a pump fail. My whole room died.

[00:20:23]>> I lost probably like, you know, 40 or $50,000 worth of weed and there was no salvaging it. So I was like, well, I'm going to switch to soil cuz this hydro is unforgiving if I have any type of mechanical failure.

[00:20:37]>> Yeah.

[00:20:38]>> And soil is a little more forgiving.

[00:20:40]>> Mhm.

[00:20:41]>> And so I switched to soil. I was still doing fertigation salts and then at one point in my cultivation I was using like 13 different products and I remember a particular product that I had and it was like a bud enhancer like a bloom enhancer something like that and I looked at it and it was potassium phosphate and Epsom salt was the ingredients. At this point, I had never really taken into consideration what things were made from. And so, I looked those up and I was like, "Dude, I can buy a 50 lb bag of Epsom salt for 25 bucks, >> right?" You're like, "I can do this for way."

[00:21:17]>> And I was like, "Wait, potassium phosphate." It's like, you can buy this for like, you know, 60 bucks for a 50 lb bag.

[00:21:26]>> Why am I paying $70 for water with about a half a teaspoon of each of these in it?

[00:21:33]>> Yeah. So, I started looking at all the labels and I was like, "Dude, most of this stuff is like I can just source."

[00:21:40]And so, I changed it up. I just started doing like top dress stuff like that.

[00:21:45]And then on a bet, you know, my mentor was like, "I'm switching everything over to organic." And I was already doing soil and already sourcing raw material.

[00:21:55]>> And so, I was like, "Fuck it. I'm going to do it, too." And so, I like just switched everything over on a bet. Turns out he was just bullshitting with me. He was >> He didn't even do it.

[00:22:05]>> Oh, he didn't do it at all.

[00:22:08]>> [ __ ] And I was like, I got everything all switched over, bro. And I was like all stoked. And he's like, dude, I'm not [ __ ] switching anything. I was just [ __ ] joking.

[00:22:15]>> He's like, calm down, dude.

[00:22:18]>> So, um, what happened was the quality was great on my first run, but the yields were terrible. And I was like, this can't be right. I had to have done something wrong. And so, I had to relearn. I had to learn everything about nutrient levels. I had to learn argomy.

[00:22:35]I had to learn a microbiology. I had to basically, you know, start studying the science behind the actual cultivation. I had to start looking at different examples because there was nothing in cannabis. So, a lot of the original stuff that I looked at was studies on aeridopsis.

[00:22:55]>> Oh, yeah. Kind of like a just classic system for studying plants. Exactly. So, anything that was like translatable, I kind of, hey, this works on this plant.

[00:23:06]So, let's see if this works on this and let's, you know, play around with it.

[00:23:09]And, you know, for a long time, I would pull up a science research paper. You know, at the beginning, I'd have to stop because it would have a word and I didn't know what it was. It was something like polysaccharide, right? I was like, "Okay, what are we talking about here?" So, now I'd have to go learn everything about polysaccharides before I could even finish this paper.

[00:23:27]And so like what would end up happening is I'd read one science paper and by the time I got to the finish I had branched off into all these subcategories in which like oh now I have to go down the rabbit on every single one of these subcategories and all those subcategories all branch out to other things. And so it's like this endless amount of information. And the thing is you have to be able to analyze and select from the information to see what's applicable because I always say that the science is great but it doesn't mean anything if it doesn't have practical application.

[00:24:00]>> Mhm.

[00:24:02]>> And so >> and I feel like that's really where you stick out just from the stuff I've seen from you. Especially talking about like micro macronutrients, the different ratios of like NPK, whatever it is. It's like you can take the science and you're like, and this is what this means. This is why this is useful to growers.

[00:24:17]Whereas I feel like a lot of people almost speak on the topics as if they're just theory. And it's like, no, now you take that and you make better weed and you make better crops with it. Like it's supposed to be applicable science. And you had brought up before we even started recording about a paper that you had read where they were trying to tell you about the different nutrient requirements for cannabis, but the picture that they're showing you in the publication is shitty weed is like poorly grown cannabis. So you're like, "This isn't applicable science. This isn't useful to me." So like, what's the value?

[00:24:50]>> Yeah. Exactly. And I've seen it on several accounts. You know, here's the thing. You have to be able to analyze the data and see what works in real world applications because something that may work in a lab may not work in the field. Something that may work in the field may not replicate in a lab, you know. And then there's also the problem too like one of the biggest things that I see when it comes to university when it comes to like nutrient values how much phosphorus NPK this this and the other is like the experience levels of the people that are doing the applications or that are experimenting aren't often like somebody who really really like who has the experience to say hey yet even though you've determined these values like this plant isn't good the quality isn't good it's You have to be able to know, not just look at data sets, but know like if something is doing well, if the quality is on point, if it's got good smokability, like those things are intrinsic to not just science, but to experience.

[00:25:56]>> Yeah. And that's why I feel like part of what's wrong with the academic system in general is like really the only route to becoming a professor is to be in academia your entire life. like being a professor is a result of like you know going to grad school doing a posttock working there and then eventually like becoming a full-time professor but that doesn't leave room to typically develop the expertise in the thing that you're teaching. So often times like the professors are not necessarily the experts on the subject they're just the ones that read the papers that are published on it. So there's kind of this huge gap in practical knowledge being taught at universities where I've always thought that like never made sense to me why being a professor doesn't allow for multiple things to happen.

[00:26:41]>> Yeah. And I think a good way to put it would be something like this. You could have a PhD student who understands soil science, understands biology, he's just coming out of college. If you're running a farm, would you rather hire that kid or would you hire the guy that's got 30 years hands on farming experience?

[00:26:58]Because in my world, I'm going with the guy that's got 30 years of experience.

[00:27:02]>> Yeah, 100%. Me, too.

[00:27:06]Yeah. Um, and can you define argomy for anybody who's listening and doesn't know what that means?

[00:27:13]>> Yeah. So, it's basically looking at soil data from a lab and then determining how much of what needs to be applied when and where to meet the proper nutritional requirements for said crop.

[00:27:29]>> So, each crop has a different like value system for what makes that perfect growing condition for all these different nutrients and stuff.

[00:27:37]>> Yeah. So if you're doing like let's say fullterm outdoor right your requirement might be you know in terms of saturated pace tests you're you're looking at nitrogen values on a saturated pace test of anywhere between like 75 ppm to 150 ppm. How you get to that target ppm is determined by what types of input you use, when you use it, and where you place it. Like, you know, corn, right? So, corn has a different nutritional requirement. Like, corn requires 200 to 220 pounds of nitrogen per acre.

[00:28:19]>> Wow.

[00:28:20]>> Right. And then cannabis would be a different value. Soybeans are going to have a different value. And so like you can determine you know how much of what needs to be added when. And what I do is I specialize in like regenerative agriculture. So I'm not just addressing things like I don't give recommendations for conventional fertilizers like chemical fertilizers. What I'm doing is I'm addressing the system holistically because >> in nature that system is built off of certain cycles like the phosphorus cycle, nitrogen cycling, carbon cycling, lithosphere cycling which is the cycling of the parent appetite material, the rock mineral in that soil and the conversion of that into plant available nutrient ions.

[00:29:06]And so all of those cycles are all fueled by carbon because carbon is the fuel source for biology. And so biology does all of the biochemical work in these systems by producing secondary metabolites like enzymes and acids and you know plant hormones and polysaccharides and VOCC's and just a huge wide range of different types of chemicals that actually react whether it's reacting with other organisms or directly interacting with the plant or if it's interacting with like a nutrient transport system like polysaccharides and surfactants. They can upgrade mass flow transportation because you're decreasing the surface tension of water with those compounds and you're also, you know, improving the ability for those things to move through those water films. And so there's all these different things that are happening because of the organic matter in the soil. And most aronomists aren't addressing it holistically. alls they're doing is saying we need to add this much chemical to get to this certain value and so it's inefficient.

[00:30:15]>> So aronomy usually starts with a soil test so you can see like where you're at what are levels of everything in the soil and then you're saying that kind of most other aronomists might just add in all these different fertilizers and say okay this is how we supplement this system. How do you take a more holistic approach at it if the environment only has certain things in it? Like how do you not just add in the inputs that it needs? What are the other ways that you go about doing this?

[00:30:45]>> It's by building up the soil's architecture, right? By improving soil, >> the microbiome of the of the soil.

[00:30:55]>> Yeah. So when you're looking at soil right ideally in a native soil you want about 45% lithosphere. So this is the component that makes up all the parent appetite material. This is all your rock minerals your sand silts and clays.

[00:31:08]Right?

[00:31:08]>> Okay.

[00:31:09]>> That becomes your you know plant available nutrient ions through both biological metabolic processes and then also through environmental weathering. Now you have about 5% of that is called your biosphere. And that consists of all of the organic carbon, all of the biology, the humic and fulvic acids, all of the things that work on things like soil exchange sites, you know, it's basically the energy. It's like the battery of that system.

[00:31:40]>> Gotcha.

[00:31:40]>> And then you have 25% atmosphere and 25% hydraulosphere. So your air and your water component of that that makes up four zones of soil. Now in most agonomic soils we're typically seeing less than 2% organic matter.

[00:32:00]>> And what happens is so things like cycles that naturally cycle phosphorus from rock minerals, right? And liberate plant available phosphate, it doesn't happen very efficiently.

[00:32:12]Typically, there's enough phosphorus in soils, but the problem is that it's not getting cycled and liberated, right? And the only way that's going to happen is through that chemical process and that interface with microorganisms, things like arbuscular microisal fungus or saprofitic free-living soil microorganisms, anything that can basically work on that mineral component.

[00:32:38]and it allows it to be kind of self- sustaining so that your soil over time can like you won't need to supplement it anymore because you're adding to the lithosphere all of the stuff that needs to be broken down by the microbes that you're also introducing to that system.

[00:32:54]So hopefully over time it has enough inputs and it's able to recycle that to continue to be used over time. Am I getting that right?

[00:33:02]>> So the biological component works on the lithosphere. So basically like you can almost kind of think of it like acid like all this biology is basically eating up all of this mineral matrix and breaking it down into plant available food.

[00:33:18]>> Gotcha. But then a lot of that organic stuff actually interfaces with those nutrients like humic and fulvic acids and hydroximate sodiahores which are these organic compounds, these organic molecules that interface and grab on to these nutrient ions to keep them from precipitating or reacting with other nutrients and to keep them in available form.

[00:33:41]>> I don't know why I've never thought of cedaraphors in soil as much. I studied cyanobacteria for a long time in grad school and that was always coming up but I never thought of it in the context of the soil ecosystem. So that's an awakening for me. Thank you.

[00:33:58]>> Well, because you have to think all of the soil microbiology is powered by carbon, right? And so there's all different types of carbon substrates and if you look at the complexity of the substrate, it'll usually house more complex organisms. So like the less complex the carbon sources like molasses for instance or fructose or sucrose a massive amount of different types of microorganisms are going to be able to to access that.

[00:34:28]>> It doesn't take any like specialized machinery to break it apart. They're just simple.

[00:34:33]>> They're really simple enzymes and things that they're using to access those. But then you have more complex things like you have lignid, right? and cellulose, right? And things that have lipid fatty acids in them, right? Which may take more complex machinery, more complex chemical metabolites that need to be liberated into that system to break those things down that are in the system. And so what's happening is like when you build up the soil carbon and you build up the different types of soil carbon, you're proliferating different species that can do different types of work that can go and break down whether it's animal remains or if it's woody remains from tree roots or if it's, you know, leaf matter or whatever it is, it's the lithosphere. That carbon is the source of energy and carbon. Because when we're talking about all life on Earth, there's five elements. And I'm sure you already know this. It's carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and phosphorus, >> right? You need those for protein transcription, RNA transcription, and to create, you know, genes.

[00:35:44]>> Yeah. And when you're talking about the diversity of like the organisms that we need for creating soil, I go back to thinking about fungi a lot, which is part of what you're talking about as one of these organisms. And you mentioned lignon versus cellulose. And it's really cool for people who do walk around uh the woods. Sometimes you see like a dead tree and it's almost like white looking and then sometimes you see a dead tree and it's like brown looking. That's like a really good visualization of this of a brown rot fungi versus a white rot fungi and what it leaves behind because lignen is colored whereas cellulose is not. So when you're seeing the cellulose like leftovers on the ground that means a micro came over ate all the lignen and left a pile of cellulose which also you need a different microorganism to come by and like eat up that. But it's like a really visual way of seeing like the specialization of different microbes in nature. At least for my brain, it's like super visual.

[00:36:42]>> You're correct. There's a lot of specialization things that happen, but then there's a huge umbrella of things that are really broad, you know, because like you know, all organisms need access to phosphorus. And so the majority of everything that I've seen in research, they produce things like phosphotase, >> you know, or some type of enzyme that is going to help them capture phosphorus of some sort. But again, it all comes back to addressing carbon as an input in that soil because that's what's fueling all these microbiological processes and that is what is basically enhancing the efficiency. Because when I think of like sustainability and regenerative agriculture, I'm thinking about logistics and the actual analytics that go behind everything. When we're talking about the nitrogen cycle, right? It doesn't work very efficiently because you have to have that carbon in there. You have to have the right types of microbes that are going to be producing nitrogenase, which is the enzyme that converts d nitrogen into ammonium. So that way it can be accessible to microorganisms and plants.

[00:37:52]>> But if you don't have carbon substrate and you don't have power for those microbes, they're not going to be producing that thing. And so that nitrogen process of converting atmospheric nitrogen into biological nitrogen, it slows down or ceases to exist. And so people are forced to use chemical nitrogen sources because they didn't address the carbon in their soil.

[00:38:12]So what we're talking about here is this also like the difference between living soil and just soil or are we mainly talking about outdoor grows like that are just utilizing the soil that's in the earth right now.

[00:38:25]>> So I do like that's a good question and I like to separate out modified growing mixes which are usually Pete or cocoa based mixes because they function much differently than agonomic outdoor soils.

[00:38:37]>> Okay.

[00:38:37]>> Um they function more like hydroponic systems. It's because the lithosphere and the biosphere is flipped. There's way more biological component.

[00:38:45]Everything in that is basically like Pete is carbon based. You know, your composts are carbon based. A lot of your organic meals are carbon based. And then a lot of the mineral component is a lot less. And so it turns over that mineral component much more rapidly than an agonomic soil does. Because that agonomic soil has way less biological component. It takes longer to mineralize and liberate nutrient ions into the soil profile.

[00:39:13]>> Okay.

[00:39:15]So, um not to skip ahead a little bit, but um you do have a brand product, Bokashi Earthworks. Um >> we actually we changed our names so we could get a trademark approval and it's now Full Crop Science, but we have the same logo and everything.

[00:39:31]>> Cool. Okay. Fullcrop science. and you sent me some and I've been using it on my plants as well, which is amazing. But this conversation has me thinking, should I have tested my soil before using that or is it a formulation that is helpful for like most plants that people are growing? Like how do you think of a product like that for people to use across many different soil types and like environments?

[00:39:56]>> Yeah. So, there's a couple different formulations. The high nitrogen formulation is, you know, going to use for plants that are putting on more biomass, leafy greens, things that are in vegetative stage. There's a complete, you know, complex formulation, which is an even distribution of the macronutrients, and it's usually for transition. I use that on my house plants because they don't need a ton of nitrogen, but they still need >> a little bit. And there's the potassium umate which is you know things like fruit trees, berries, heavy fruing flowering plants.

[00:40:31]And you know if you're doing like really controlled cultivation like I do, like I always test my soil beds before every run and I just look at those levels so I could determine what to add. But the products are great just for like home use and just for putting on your vegetables out in your backyard and you're going to have amazing results.

[00:40:51]far better results than probably anything else. Uh I'm in terrible soil out here where I'm at. What's your >> It's super sandy. It's >> I have sandy soil, too. That's something I deal with, too. And actually, I have huge pine trees nearby, so it's like acidic sandy soil.

[00:41:07]>> Yeah, me too. I have giant like I don't know. They must be a hundred years old.

[00:41:11]They're massive. The trunks are humongous.

[00:41:14]>> Yeah.

[00:41:15]>> Um and so it doesn't hold water very well. it doesn't have a very good uh cation exchange capacity. It doesn't have a high nutrient value. So, I've had to, you know, build the soil up. But that that's one of the good things about the humate fertilizer, right? By volume, it's about 45% fulvic acid, which is really good because that is I don't know if you know the difference between humic and fulvic, but fulvic acid is a smaller molecule. It actually chilates nutrient ions, keeps them bioavailable, and it decreases energy usage for uptake. It allows passive uptake and it decreases precipitation reactions. It does a bunch of stuff. It's an energy source for microbes.

[00:42:00]There's just so many benefits. But what's happening is when you're using those products, if you're in those type of agonomic settings where you do have low soil organic matter, you're going to be building up that soil organic profile by using that because you're not adding just a fertilizer. You're actually adding more organic carbon than you are nutrition.

[00:42:20]>> And what happens is it's about the nutrient use efficiency. So if we look at you know the way that conventional fertilizers are produced you have the harbor bosch process which takes a massive amount of energy to produce nitrogen from the atmosphere and then the countries that produce it are places like Qatar Oman Saudi Arabia and it's because that's where they have access to cheap energy >> because >> it's inefficient right to manufacture you have to do multiple passes takes so much energy. I think the last time I checked it was like 36 million BTUs per metric ton which it like >> wow >> if you think about like a room air conditioner is about 5,000 BTUs and we're talking about 36 million and so it's it takes a massive amount of energy to make it and then the logistics associated with transport and chemical dependency because it's coming from other places that increases price and then the actual use efficiency of the product. So even if they take something like uh ura from the harder botch process and they make ura, right, which is the best source of nitrogen because even though it's synthetically produced, it contains carbon, it still only usually has about a 20% use efficiency at best.

[00:43:43]>> Do you think it's smart to pee on your plants? Do you think that's a No. No. So it's not a good source of nitrogen?

[00:43:52]>> No. Absolutely not. My dog does it all the time. He kills my [ __ ] >> Somebody asked me that one time and I'm like, I have no idea. But >> no, but what essentially, you know, the chemical fertilizer production is really inefficient and it's because they're not addressing carbon dynamics, right? And because what happens is you put that into a field and it's converted into nitrate. It ends up in our waterways or it just gets converted back into nitrogenous gases. And so you lose so much of what you put in that like from a logistics standpoint, I can't even believe people still use it. Like it does not make any sense. If you understand and can analyze and break down the logistics, the energy use, the logistics of transport, and the deficiency, you're getting a fraction of the energy and resource and everything that goes into it. You're getting a tiny tiny fraction of it.

[00:44:48]Do you recommend people who are growing outdoors and like building up their soil over time to just keep planting their plants in the same spot because you are building up the soil to be more resilient?

[00:45:00]>> Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. If you're doing plots, like say let's pretend like you have a big farm and you're not just monocropping, but like this is your carrot plot. This is your potato plot. This is your corn plot.

[00:45:10]Every single one of those is going to extract x amount of nutrients from that soil. So when you're building your soil, you need to take into account things like slow release remmineralization products, basalt, volcanic minerals, right? You need to be addressing, you know, midterm release, you know, products like calcium phosphate, bone meals, pelletized gypsum. And then you can also address it to where you can address, you know, short-term immediate availability products like gypsum, calcium, you know, micronized gypsum, calcium silica. There's different categories for every fertilizer that might have different release rates depending on what they are. And that all has to do with carbon also because carbon interfaces into those release rates. That's why we have nitrogen carbon ratios where if your carbon is too high above the nitrogen ratio, it'll immobilize it. And so what's happening is that carbon is stimulating the microbiology. All those microbes are grabbing that nitrogen and they're bringing it into their cells. So, it's immobilizing it from the system because it's captured until those things turn over and die. Once those bacterial and fungal cells lice and die and they liberate their components back into the soil, then it can be available to the plant again. But if your carbon ratio is too high and all these microbes are and they've captured that, it could limit the availability. And then on the opposite end, if the nitrogen and carbon ratios are fluxed, then you'll get net mineralization. And what'll happen is there's not enough carbon and resources, those microbes will start to turn over and lice and die and start to liberate all that into the system.

[00:47:02]>> Wow. This made me just think of something that So, I am not obviously a soil scientist and I don't understand it nearly as well as you do. So question for you. So a lot of the science over the past few years has been talking about theols, sulfur containing compounds that the cannabis plant makes that give it that iconic skunky smell or gassy smell, right? Those are sulfur containing compounds.

[00:47:27]Is there a way from your understanding of soil science to increase the output of those sulfur containing compounds by making sulfur more available in the soil to like even I don't know if like amino acids are involved here but like even facilitating more methionine or cyine being produced like >> okay >> well amino acids are great and you mentioned sulfur and amino acids and they're correlated right because sulfur is needed for protein synthesis this and so they produce amino acids. But there's a little trick. If you're using something like soy protein hydraysate, which is an amino acid nitrogen, it's going to have a rapid turnover because the biology want to immediately access that in the system. But if you're spoon feeding it frequently through your fertigation, it's going to be in a soluble form and the plant can use that amino acids. And so it bypasses a metabolic process that requires up to 18% of the plant's metabolic energy to convert nitrogen into amino acids and then convert those amino acids into proteins.

[00:48:31]>> Right? So you can skip that beginning step where the plant has to use these, you know, sulfur and it has to use nitrogen and it has to use um malibdinum and it has to use iron and it basically uses this metabolic process to convert these things, these nitrogenous compounds into peptides and then into amino acids. But if they already are in an amino acid form, it's bypassed. There's a great research paper. It's called catabolism of amino acids in plants. And it talks about how when plants can receive amino acids like that, they can also store them internally. And if there's any problem with energy, they can actually break down those amino acids to release FAD, NADPH, and ATP.

[00:49:20]>> H that's fascinating. Have you any interest in like trying to essentially research that to see like if we can get more skunky smelling cannabis or is this something you've done before?

[00:49:30]>> You can. I mean I haven't done the science like done a white paper on it but um there's okay amino acids also correlate with higher calcium uptake as well and that's really important talking about sulfur. So the research shows and you can look at this like all across things like lavender for instance.

[00:49:48]Typically, an aronomist will add more sulfate into those types of systems because that's what's going to stimulate oil production for these plants and that's what's being extracted is these essential oils. And so, the same thing can be said about cannabis when we're looking at things like the saturated paste tests on soluble nutrients. What is metabolically available in the riso zone?

[00:50:11]When we have high sulfate, we do typically see higher oil production.

[00:50:17]tarpine threol production. Now I haven't tested this in the lab but I can see it through anecdotally through my experience.

[00:50:27]Um, but there are some drawbacks to that because what can happen is when you elevate your sulfate levels, it can cause osmotic stress by spiking EC, especially if cultivators are doing drybacks and that can damage fine root hairs and then that can lead to nutrient stress because you're damaging nutrient transport mechanisms.

[00:50:48]>> Interesting. I didn't think of it like that, but yeah, it does seem counterproductive if you're trying to like introduce nutrients and then you limit nutrient intake. Does being an organic cultivator, has that changed your opinion or do you have an opinion on like flushing versus not flushing plants? Because I feel like that's one of the like big topics that I hear all of the time and I don't know if that's something specific to like a cultivation technique or not or what are your feels on that?

[00:51:15]So the idea originated a long time ago and what we used to do when we ran these hydro systems with the you know 55gallon resi would go into a brain that brain would distribute it down the lines to these buckets that would feed from the bottom. Right now what would happen is in these systems because there was maybe about a quarter inch of water on the bottom that would never drain. What we would do is we would flush our systems in between nutrient changes. So we would eliminate all the water from our reservoir. We would add in fresh reverse osmosis water. We would run that through our system and it did a couple of things. One, it made it so that water that was compiling was really high EC, high ppm. We wanted it out of there so we had fresh. And it also rinse out any precipitants because what happens with conventional fertilizers, they're not compatible. A lot of them have limited compatibility or no compatibility. And that's why you see tank batch mixes in facilities. But what happens is if you're just doing things in a tank, what happens is precipitation reactions and that can stay in the media. And when you're doing drybacks or anything else, it can spike EC cause osmotic stress and again it can damage root hair zones. So what we would be doing is we would be rinsing out all of that that kind of excess nutrient water >> before we added our fresh batches. And then the way that we would do it is we would increase our ppm to the max point and then towards the end we would start decreasing. So there was no point in flushing because the plant was finessing and using up all of the rest of the nutrients that were stored in their material. And then our flush would maybe be like you know 3 or 4 days where we would just do regular water to let them finish off. Now, if you had to like completely flush your media and do it for longer periods of time, it's typically because you've overfertilized your plants and there's too much actually stored in their leaf tissue and they're not able to catabolize that efficiently for the stage of growth that they're in because often times when they get later into growth, they require less nutrients, less nutrition. So in an organic system, what you see is you usually add everything at the beginning and nothing more. So that way when you get to the end of flower, your nitrogen values aren't high, your magnesium values aren't too high. Magnesium and nitrogen, I know you did the smokability test, are going to be one of the two main contributing factors because they require higher temperatures to volatize that organic carbon molecules that are attached to those, which will make the ash darker. M.

[00:53:55]So that's your opinion on white verse dark ash and if ash color matters.

[00:54:00]>> Well, it doesn't so much because you could have really bad quality that's just really dry and it's got a large surface area so it burns hotter and so it's going to volatize that organic carbon faster.

[00:54:11]>> Yeah. Yeah. Which is why, you know, cigarettes burn white every time because they're just burning hot stuff.

[00:54:17]>> Yeah. It doesn't mean that it's high quality tobacco or anything like that.

[00:54:21]Um the only time more flushing typically in organic system is when you've overfertilized or if you haven't done proper water management. Number one thing across all cultivation. Water is your number one input. So understanding water quality is huge and people often just completely overlook that and they're just like I'm just going to use RORO. No, you still need to understand water quality because the quality of your water matters before you filter it because it's going to determine when you need to change your filters, how much of what is going to get through it matters so much. And then if you have pH fluctuations, people are always like, oh, my pH is high, you know, can I use this to decrease your pH? And I was like, that's not the problem. The problem is pH stands for potential of hydrogen. What's causing that excess hydrogen in that water? Is it sodium? Is it bicarbonate? Is it because there's a massive amount of calcium or magnesium in it? You need to address the fundamental issue instead of the symptom because pH is a symptom of what is in that water. And people don't look at it like that. And so they bypass that completely >> and then they're bringing in sodium into their system constantly and all of a sudden they have an issue and they're like >> what's happening? It's like there's so much sodium that it's antagonizing all of your other base nutrients like calcium, magnesium, potassium.

[00:55:37]I was going to ask about testing pH. Is that something that you like if you were being hired as an aggronomist, are you testing that like initially in your initial soil test and that's part of your diagnosis of what needs to happen?

[00:55:51]>> Yeah. So essentially when I'm looking at data, I'm looking at a standard soil test which is like the bank account.

[00:55:58]It's the reserve of everything. And then the saturated pace test which is like the cash that you have in hand. It's the the nutrition that you have available at the root zone. It tells you what ppm, what pH, the ppm of every single nutrient, the percentage of those nutrients in comparison to each other.

[00:56:17]>> Wow. Keep going.

[00:56:18]>> It's a massive data set, but I use all that to determine what needs to happen.

[00:56:23]>> I was actually just going to ask about your data. Like, it sounds like you have a ton of data, and growing can be difficult because you do need to take notes. It's like at least I find it so helpful taking notes while growing. Do you have like an Excel sheet where at this point you can like put in values and it uses your previous data to tell you like what you may need for certain microbes or certain substrate.

[00:56:48]>> So I built a nutrient calculator. So essentially what you do is you put in your values for your standard soil and your saturated pace test and then you can calculate you know your nitrogen source based off of what type of nitrogen input you want. So, if you want soybean meal or if you want blood meal or feather meal or you want biolive or you want fish meal or you want alphaalfpha meal or whatever it is that you're using, you can list that and then it'll toggle depending on how many weeks you're going to veg for, you know, and then it'll tell you you need x amount of cups of this per yard. And it also does that for every single nutrient. So, it gives you the target value. It also tells you if like your chloride levels are too high and you need to flush. Hey, your chloride exceeds the threshold.

[00:57:33]You need to get that chloride out of this media and then you need to address where that chloride is coming from.

[00:57:37]Typically, it's coming from water.

[00:57:40]>> Dude, that is so cool that you have that tool. Is that something that like you use as a professional or is that something that is available to like >> It's a service. It costs $30. It's the nutrient calculator on my website. And I'm actually doing a podcast tonight at 7:30 on my channel where I'm going to go walk through all the steps, what everything means, how to toggle everything.

[00:58:04]>> That is so cool. 30 bucks is a steal for that. That is so valuable that >> I'm going to make it free. But the thing is, my web developer, I lost my main Instagram profile, so all his contact info is on there. So, I have to go find him again on IG because we were talking the last time he was like, "Yeah, I can change it." And I just, you know, he went on vacation and then I never heard back from him. But I wanted to make it free. So, it's just a service that is going to drive people like, you know, just sign up for our newsletter and you can get access.

[00:58:35]>> Oh, that would be insane. I'll still pay 30 bucks for it though because I think it's a good deal.

[00:58:41]>> Yeah.

[00:58:42]>> I have a question. Another thing, another study in my head I'm like, "Oh man, we need this in cannabis." Is understanding better like the role of teroir and how teroir plays like changes the secondary metabolite or the smokability or just how that final product is. What do you think goes into the teroir? Is it these different spheres that you're talking about? The biosphere, the lithosphere, the hydrophere.

[00:59:08]>> It's the last one. That's like so all of those matter. Obviously soil matters, the farmer matters, the climate and the micro conditions of that climate matter.

[00:59:18]But the base of it really comes down to calcium dynamics actually in my opinion.

[00:59:23]And the reason why I say this is because different soil types will contain different types of calcium sources. And when you look at calcium sources, a lot of them have different solubility rates.

[00:59:33]They have different abilities whether they're raising pH or whether they don't have any lying properties. And usually calcium comes with something else, right? Calcium in nature usually is attached to like phosphorus or it's attached to other elements, right? Also, what is that calcium source linked to when it's liberated? What else is being liberated? But VPD, environmental VPD is huge. And I don't think people really take this into consideration when you're thinking about outdoor. But if you look at different microclimates, let's say in California, because that's where a lot of people are, you know, the people that are most vocal about tear wall, you have coastal climates, right, that get really that are really humid. And so they're going to have a really low VPD. And what that means is that water transpiration is a lot slower, right? Because the plant has so much moisture in the air, it's harder to push more into the atmosphere. It takes more energy. And so the plant doesn't, you know, when it's drier, it's easier for water to move through it. And because calcium moves via mass flow, the plants observe nutrients in three ways. Mass flow, diffusion, and root interception. It's about 90 probably 6% of calcium uptake is through mass flow. So any type of conditions that limit transpiration of water is going to limit calcium delivery. And calcium is the number one nutrient that plants are using in cannabis. It's more used than nitrogen.

[01:00:58]>> I never thought about that. I never thought about VPD playing such because we have pretty humid summers here, too.

[01:01:04]And obviously that plays a role into the dry and cure process, but I haven't thought about it in the growing process and how that would have such a crazy difference in nutrient uptake. Wow.

[01:01:16]>> Yeah. So if you look at VPD, so you have to correlate vapor pressure deficit to mass flow dynamics, right? Because mass flow and the movement of solutes. So all your electrolytes like magnesium, potassium, sodium, and calcium, and then also your nitrogen sources are moving usually via mass flow dynamics. And so if the plant isn't transporting water, it's not getting those stored into the tissue, right? So you might have slower growth or you might have a different reaction because you have a different combination. you're not getting the same nutrients into that plant. And we know that like, okay, if I increase my sulfate and I've got good calcium and I'm using these aminos, oh, I'm getting better turpp profiles, right? Oh, so that the the turpps are similar, but they're not as loud over here at this farm as they are over here. But this farm over here is higher up and they have a little drier climate and so they're getting, you know, as long as you're remmineralizing, right? Because there's also a condition that can happen when you're too dry, right? and you're moving water, but the soil isn't remmineralizing and replacing the calcium and other nutrients in that water. So, you basically you're delivering water with no nutrients, >> right? Interesting. And interesting you brought up California as far as teroir interest because I think that is where a lot of people talk about it. But so they have they have really high VPD typically because I'm just thinking of where at least the US is known for growing really good weed and how that plays into VPD and to teroir. Do you think high VPD might I know what you just said is kind of the opposite but may play a role into quality?

[01:02:53]>> Definitely. Well, look at this. If you go to like Anza Barago, I remember we used to have some crazy big traps out there in Anza Barago and super dry climate. It's super dry, right? So your VPD is going to be really high, right?

[01:03:06]Because you're usually really hot and you're usually really low humidity. So you're talking about up into the twos sometimes, you know? And so the plants are moving water constantly, right? And like if you were able to keep up with nutrient flux that was constant and balanced in those types of conditions, you're going to see greater growth. The issue is you have to be a good enough grower to know how to supplement when you're talking about VPD and you're looking at VPD from an environmental standpoint outside of a grow room.

[01:03:39]>> Yeah.

[01:03:40]>> So you have to know how these dynamics works, how to resupply nutrition to match.

[01:03:45]>> And if you can do that, then it would make sense. But if you can't do that, you're just going to grow some shitty weed. Um, >> I mean, not necessarily. I mean, you can still grow really decent weed. Look, I grow 15 16 footers here in Oklahoma and my climate sucks. My insect and pest pressure, my pathogen pressure is super high. And my plants always look beautiful and they come out fine. I don't usually smoke them. You know, I make like hash out of them or I'll do breeding projects and I just smoke my indoor because that's what I prefer.

[01:04:17]>> Okay.

[01:04:17]>> But, you know, you can grow good weed anywhere.

[01:04:21]>> That's funny. I kind of do the >> bad weed anywhere.

[01:04:24]>> Yeah, that's that's true. Um I tend to smoke more of my outdoor, I feel like, and my indoor is more of like a fun house plant that I like to just watch, but I smoke both, I guess, at the end of the day. Can you tell us about biological crop steering and what that means?

[01:04:39]Yeah, I coined the term. I'm so proud of myself for coming up with it. You know, after years of looking at the different types of data on biological microbial consortiums, >> I found out that they work not to just suppress pathogens, but they cycle nutrients. They directly affect root architecture through hormonal signaling.

[01:04:58]They do all kinds of absolutely insane things.

[01:05:03]And so what I found out by doing some experiments with doing data testing, sap analysis and leaf tissue analysis was I started using certain consortiums of microorganisms to see if I had higher solubility of certain nutrients in my soil and then also see if those nutrients were making a different on my leaf tissue analysis and sap analysis.

[01:05:26]And so what I saw was the first experiment I did with this was the triricoderma and basillus subtillus combination. And my idea was originally just to look at iron because the science shows that they produce those hydroximate sedaphores which are a high affinity for iron and they also produce redox shuttles which basically takes oxidized iron and converts it back into its feric form into its dvalent form and then they chilate it. Bam. So they convert it from a biologically unavailable form to a biologically available form and then they add in that sodiahore to keep it from reacting and converting back into unusable. And so it keeps it into a higher energy state essentially by doing so. And that's one of the reasons why it's such it's triricoderma is so good at growing is because it has this ability to do this to capture iron as a resource and alco compete other. But in doing so it creates higher solubility of iron in the actual soil sphere. And so what I started to do in this experiment was I tested uh untested versus tested.

[01:06:34]So I inoculated one one and then I had my control which was uninoculated and nothing else was different. you know, exact same everything else with only that was different. And then what I did is I did the experiment. I looked at the data, compared it, did leaf tissue, sap analysis, and then I redid that experiment a couple times, and then I looked at all the data, and all of the data with the inoculated was all consistent on all three trials versus the trials where they were uninoculated.

[01:07:06]So I was seeing the direct correlation as far as a higher percentage of solubility even though there wasn't an increase in input.

[01:07:15]>> Yeah.

[01:07:16]>> And so that's what I started thinking about aronomy from a different perspective. Instead of just using inputs, can we use microbials to influence the behavior of those nutrients and the transport dynamics that plants use to uptake those. And so what happens is I I started learning that a lot of these microbes the metabolites that they produce they biologically interface with nutrient dynamics right so either directly or indirectly.

[01:07:47]>> So in the case of something like diffusion you have to have a larger concentration on the outside of the root >> for it >> than on the inside and it moves because that's just how it moves. It's entropy.

[01:07:58]It's essentially things coming to rest.

[01:08:01]>> And so it moves into it through those physical dynamics.

[01:08:05]>> But if you don't have a large enough nutrient pool on the outside to diffuse anywhere, then nothing's going to happen. And so indirectly, what'll happen is these microbes are creating larger soluble pools of available nutrients, but also they're creating things like mono and polysaccharides, right? Which are basically bioslimes, right? Okay. And these boflimes actually interface with the root surfaces and the surfaces of water. And then when you add in something like a surfactant, what it does is it decreases the surface tension of those things. So that way nutrient >> it literally delims it.

[01:08:43]>> Yeah. No. So it's it basically creating a water. It's basically a interfacing with water and this bofilm so that they're creating greater surface areas around the roots for nutrients to move and it's decreasing the surface tension of the water along those surfaces so that nutrients can move more efficiently into those systems.

[01:09:03]>> Right. So that the diffusion process functions more efficiently.

[01:09:08]>> Yeah. It's easier to transport and get the water to where it needs to go. It's like slipperier. More slippery.

[01:09:14]>> Yeah. Exactly.

[01:09:16]>> It's like the water becomes more slippery. It decreases the surface tension.

[01:09:20]>> Wow.

[01:09:21]>> And so biology interfaces with nutrient transport dynamics. It directly and indirectly with the nutrient ions themselves through like the production of organic acids. A good example of this is acetate acetic acid. Right. So what you see in um >> vinegar.

[01:09:40]>> Yeah.

[01:09:40]>> Yeah. And you see people make water soluble calcium you know natural what we call calcium acetate and you can see that chemical reaction take place. Now acetic acid is actually a fulvic acid.

[01:09:54]It's in that class of fulvic acids. It's the second lowest weight uh uh fulvic acid molecule. And so that organic acid can chilate positively charged nutrient ions to make it so they can't precipitate and so they can be delivered. So you have things like organic acid production. We have citric acid does the same thing. Acetic acid.

[01:10:14]You have all these different organic acids that do that. We also have hydroximate sodiahores which we already talked about can do that. And so there's all of these different biological functions and all of these different chemical classes of different things whether it's phyto hormones whether it's oxins or whether it's you know like the polysaccharides or whether it's sugars or amino acids or there's just a huge variety of chemical compounds. And so when I'm looking at biological consortiums, what I'm looking at is the types of metabolites they produce.

[01:10:45]Right? When you're looking to smoke something, you want to know what the canabonoid interpret profiles, the secondary metabolites of that plant are because that is going to affect the biochemical network in your body. The same thing is happening on a different scale. So in nature, as above, so below, right? These systems mirror each other essentially. And what's happening is the metabolites that these microbes are essentially producing are doing the biochemical work, right? And they're interfacing with all of these other nutrient processes and you know plant processes and mass flow and nutrient trans. And so it all interfaces and you have to be able to look at that holistically and I have done it and I put together all types of science on my blog where I put charts together that show what type of metabolite does what, how it interfaces with what system and it's absolutely incredible. And that's the reason why organic always over synthetic because you don't address any of these. And so you you decrease it's all about logistics, right? The reason why these systems exist in nature is because nature will always take the path of least resistance. It's entropy. It's built into our system. Like everything in the universe has these fundamental codes that are written into it, right?

[01:12:01]And so like it has to follow a certain pattern. And so these systems are built to make everything function at its peak efficiency. And it's egotistic to think we can bypass these systems that nature put together. Oh, I love that. And it's a great way to think about synthetic verse organic methodology. So, it's almost like synthetics is like putting a band-aid on something, but you're not actually making it more resilient and more redundant and easier for the plant.

[01:12:29]You're just fixing a problem for that day or maybe that week even. But feature, >> it's a pharmaceutical recipe. You know, they're treating a symptom and not the core issue.

[01:12:39]>> Yeah.

[01:12:41]Pharmaceuticals, synthetic. Yeah. I like the comparison of like to the plant to us and how we're looking for cannabis.

[01:12:47]Uh makes us feel balanced and at homeostasis too. How do people access your blog? How do people access your products? How do people continue to learn from you?

[01:12:56]>> Yeah, so fullcrop science with one L like fulvic acid um.com.

[01:13:02]You can just go to the blog. There's all types of free guides whether it's the science of drying and curing and understanding the laws of thermodynamics and understanding vapor pressure deficit in the curing process and also understanding water activity level all that stuff whether it's lighting and understanding lighting how to fix nutrient deficiencies how carbon interfaces with mass flow transport dynamics there's those and usually for those free guides there's also a podcast that correlates to that same subject where I get indepth on just that specific subject Oh, even better.

[01:13:35]Everyone loves to listen and learn. Um, at least I do. And you can multitask, too, which is great for, you know, hyperactive brains to do multiple things at once. Um, >> Fullcrop Sciences with 1L across all platforms, YouTube, Instagram, Tik Tok, but I can't get more than 12 followers on Tik Tok.

[01:13:53]>> Tik Tok, it used to be a lot more cannabis like not friendly, but like tolerant, and nowadays it's really not.

[01:14:00]But I will add that to the show notes. A while ago, we were messaging that you may be working with NASA.

[01:14:08]>> It's NASA agricultural technology. So, back in like 2022, I met a doctor named Dr. George Caltez. He's a Greek man.

[01:14:17]Yeah. American citizen. He was in the NASA's space program. And he was the director of structural dynamics. So he was the guy that basically built all the structural components of the Apollo rockets.

[01:14:34]>> Man, that's a heavy responsibility. I hope >> heavy. Heavy. I mean, this guy, they used to call him the brain, but he's got four PhDs. He's got a astronomical engineering degree. He's got a chemical engineering degree and then a civil and then a mechanical engineering degree.

[01:14:48]>> Dang, >> man. Speaks like seven or eight different languages. cuz the guy is like he makes people like Elon Musk and people like that look like they're elementary school kids.

[01:14:59]>> Yeah, that's incredible.

[01:15:01]>> Um, so he's the person who built the largest sulfuric acid manufacturing facility in the whole country. It's still operational in Florida. They use it down there to make phosphoric fertilizers. You know, he worked with Monsanto for a really long time and he tried to explain to them that there was a better way to do this and nobody would listen to him. And so in the 80s he developed his own system to extract all of the mineral elements from organic ligignite which is basically oxidized surface coal. It's just decomposed mineralized animal and plant remains.

[01:15:33]>> Interesting.

[01:15:33]>> And you can extract all of the minerals and humulic acid out of it in a green manufacturing process that only involves very little energy.

[01:15:45]And so in comparison to you know conventional fertilizer practices and so I met him and I just you know I've already been doing what I've been doing for a long time. He took a liking to me.

[01:15:55]I've been working with them for years now. I have a project up in North Dakota. We're trying to get funded for $5 million to build a factory to take all of the coal waste from the mines up in North Dakota from energy production and build an on-site facility at the mines to repurpose their waste to turn it into high efficiency fertilizer. So, I got a $66,000 grant because I met the he wasn't the governor at the time. Uh, but I went to the energy ligignite council annual meeting and I met the director of the company. I met the president of BNI, which is the largest coal mining company and energy company up there. I met the now governor. I met the heads of the commerce and agricultural department. And then we did a feasibility study. So, we had a third party engineering company validate the technology and all the resource and everything. And so now I'm just looking for the investment now that we have the feasibility study to move forward to build out that facility so that way we can manufacture like 10,000 metric tons annually of high efficiency fertilizer for sustainable agriculture. Plus it qualifies for carbon credits because we can measure carbon capture and long-term carbon storage and soils.

[01:17:03]>> So is that something that you could get like a grant for too? Is that part of the funding you're looking for is potentially a big government grant?

[01:17:12]>> Yeah. So, it's definitely a possibility because there's some other grants that tie into clean manufacturing and American infrastructure.

[01:17:21]It's really hard because to get started with these types of projects, you need to have a lot of funds just to begin the processes. I'll give you an example. to capture our Q45 carbon credits. It's going to cost me $78,000 just to do the paperwork and actual report, right?

[01:17:37]>> Whoa.

[01:17:38]>> And I have to have that report to submit to the IRS and the Department of Energy, right? Cuz you're working with huge government agencies that are really wellunded and so every eye has to be dotted, every tea has to be crossed. And so you have to have professionals that know exactly what to do. So it costs a lot of money.

[01:17:55]>> Yeah. And so the first thing is like we're at a point now where people are looking at this type of green technology, looking at sustainability.

[01:18:02]It's not just a niche or keyword anymore because you have people like I I give credit where it's due to like people like RFK who's used this terminology and it's become mainstream. Now I'm not saying I agree with any of his policies or politics or anything like that. I don't have any say whatsoever. Um I'm just using it as an example.

[01:18:21]>> Yeah.

[01:18:23]So we're posed, we're in a good position for the future to, you know, big problem. Resource prices are going up.

[01:18:32]They're manufactured in the Middle East, they have to go through that same straight as all of 20% of global energy supply. So when energy prices go up, fertilizer prices increase, and then when the logistics are disrupted, it has a downstream effect on all energy in America because a lot of energy in America is cultivated through corn and soybeans.

[01:18:50]>> Yeah. And Yeah. you kind of implied this, but yeah, when like tariffs are implied and or applied and other things, it just drives that price up. Well, dang. I hope somebody listening has got a crisp 5 millie to give your way or help you out in some way. But either way, that's really cool to learn about and I hope that works out because I want to know more about like the inner workings of that. That sounds like such a cool facility to be able to visualize in my head. So, I'll manifest that for you. Anything else that you want to bring up on the pod before we end this episode?

[01:19:21]>> No, this was great. It was great chatting and stuff. I think probably people learn quite a lot in very short time. It's probably a mental overload.

[01:19:29]>> They can listen to it twice if it's an overload. So, it's all good. I definitely learned a lot and that's why I was super stoked to have you on the show. So, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I hope that listeners will check out your website, read your blog, listen to your podcast, buy your products, all of the above, because you're definitely like the number one person that I know when it comes to learning about soil and healthy soil.

[01:19:53]>> Awesome. Well, good talking and until next time.

[01:19:56]>> Yeah. Mad love everyone. See you in a couple weeks. Peace.