Effective political strategy requires understanding and working within existing power dynamics rather than attempting to change them through ideological purity; successful movements must balance principled goals with pragmatic coalition-building, recognizing that political success often depends on navigating complex power structures and accepting that some compromises are necessary to achieve meaningful change.
Install our extension to search inside any video instantly.
Our LAST Hope Against Washington's Corruption - With Jeremy KauffmanAdded:
I just can't wait to see how they spin this. War wasn't always the American way. I don't blame people for being skeptical of any FBI narrative.
>> We have a mass noticing going on. This presidential administration hasn't enacted the agenda it campaigned on.
>> If wars can be started by lies, peace can be started by truth.
>> No more war, no more debt, no more inflation, and no more empire.
What is going on, World of Liberty Vault? Great to be back with you. I'm broadcasting from Nashville as usual.
The world is still in turmoil. What do you know? The super villains have the reigns of power. How do we take it away from them? Well, I'll ask my guest about that today and his preferred method, which I do tend to agree with. Just a spoiler alert here. We'll also talk about Thomas Massiey's defeat at the hands of the Israel lobby. The donor class, whatever you want to call it, that tries to prop up Ed Galain into Massie seat seems to be working to the detriment of libertarians and lots of dissident that happen to agree with Massie. I'll talk to my guest about that as well. I'll also talk to him about recent fissures within the Republican, not the Republican party, actually the Libertarian Party, which recently disaffiliated his affiliate, of which I believe he is currently the sitting chair of, much to the chagrin of those of us that believe that this is an illegal purge. This is something that will cause a protracted financial, you know, cost in terms of legal fees. And we'll talk to him about that. So, Jeremy Kaufman, you're my guest here. You've been on the board of the Free State Project. You're in New Hampshire. Very humble about that. You don't take partiality to your state or anything like that. And you're currently the chair of uh New Hampshire. Uh welcome to the show, Jeremy.
>> It's great to be here with you. That intro contains some great lines from you. I'd never I'd never heard before.
So yeah, that that was cool. And I'm excited to talk to you about so many different things. Um and where do you want to get started? You want to talk about uh this whole massy libertarian thing?
>> Yeah, let's talk that. Man, I mean Jeremy, it it's it's interesting because there's sometimes where I watch you on Twitter and I couldn't disagree with you on some of the policies more, but we share so many affinities in terms of strategy that, you know, I I think it's worth hashing those things out whether we agree or disagree, but Massie is really at the focal point here. You know, lots of us dissidents and libertarians looked on at this differently than, let's just say, like the corporate narrative and how many of the the proTrump mega forces are are handling this and acting like this is like a litmus test on Trump's popularity. Not really what it seems to be to me where it was really the Israel lobby throwing millions of dollars in an unprecedented race to unseat this guy that and the demographics broke down this vote in a way that had all the old people. supporting Ed Galra. No one supporting Massie um in comparison, but younger people did. Uh what do you make of this? Do you think there's any silver linings and what does this tell us about the political system going forward? I guess.
>> Yeah, there's so much I I I think this is a big deal from a lot of different axes and I think there's a lot to talk about and I actually may disagree with you on some of this. It could be an should be an interesting conversation.
>> Sure.
>> And I want to be clear, I wanted Massie to win. I thought Matthew was basically the best guy in Congress. He's the best guy in Congress. I find a couple of things I quibble with them on, but I, you know, he is one of the few people who actually, I think, sincerely wants to make the government smaller. He sincerely wants to make the government smaller. That's a rare thing. Uh, and that means I like you. Okay. Uh uh so I think though you know when you something I always try to do and this is one of the things that actually bothers me about some not some libertarians you know not not you and your audience of course but like the they they want things to be other people's fault you know and you have to always like you know people come up to me I lost a big court case against the federal government a lot of people thought I you know it was very unfair how I was treated and so on but like >> the Odyssey case >> yeah it was a lie case but yeah but it was related to Odyssey and but my attitude was says, "Well, what could I have done differently? How did I screw up?" You know, because the fact that other people were doing these other things, like I don't control them, but I do control what I do. And, you know, so when I look at Massiey's case, you know, that way, not this is and this is in no way like because clearly all the money coming in, the lopsided spending, you know, that's not in his favor. You know, that does that that hurts him. Um, but why did this happen? Could he have done it, you know, another way? There's a guy here in New Hampshire I respect a lot.
His name's Jason Osborne. He's the House Majority Leader. Uh we're going to be featuring him. Uh I've been doing this Free State Party thing which has a YouTube channel at Free State Party. So all of your audience should go and listen that. It's not like a podcast. We just put out a video, you know, once every couple of weeks. They're like serious. We have a live audience. Uh they're an interesting it's an interesting format. But we're going to be doing with Jason Osborne because I think he gets political power in a way that a lot of libertarians don't. This is a guy who's been slowly building his political power over time. And I I actually talked to him about the Massie situation and he said a couple of things that I almost like not even really hearing said on the internet. So it was interesting to hear this from this guy who is I think savier about political power than you know almost anyone in the libertarian sphere I can think of. He said one he thought Massie actually doomed himself over the big beautiful bill not anything else. that that was what really drew Trump's eye and uh what led you know Trump to attack him. Yes, the Israel stuff matters, but uh a lot of this was about breaking with Trump and both Big Beautiful Bill and then of course all the stuff around Epstein, you know, with you know, and and Massie I think thought that he could play to MAGA base as if like MAGA beliefs are sincere, but MAGA beliefs are mostly Trump. Okay? So if Trump says FC matters, FC matters. If Trump says FC doesn't matter, FC doesn't matter. And like and this is just the political reality. This is just how MAGA works.
And and so I think libertarians can get things out of MAGA and I think we should try to get things out of MAGA. We also have to understand the reality of MAGA.
You u again my friend Jason said like uh you know you gota what Massie should have been doing is going going and talking to Trump and saying how can I vote no on the big beautiful bill and we can still work together on the other side of this. And this is this is just the political reality. So I'm not saying we should like this. None of this is like an endorsement of the fact that the world works this way. But if the world works this way we have to meet the world as it is. we have to act in ways that are within our control. You know, this is how we get anywhere. I all, you know, I find almost every successful person thinks this way. And and so that's sort of this this real politic analysis that that I think at times you people like to blame Israel. Yes, that mattered. Yes, it was a lot of money. Yes, this whole situation sucks. That whole side of it sucks. But to act like, oh, that's the whole piece. I think that ignores looking at what you could do, what was within your control. And that's why I like that other piece getting off there.
>> Sure. Hey, thanks for your honest and cand candid feedback there. I do have two major disagreements with that. So, I want to check you on this to see what you'd say about them. Maybe you've you've tackled these arguments before in a way I haven't seen. So, I'm open-minded about that, Jeremy. And by the way, props to the New Hampshire legislators that are on board with generally what we think. People like Tom Manion. More people in this country need to know who that is and Jason Osborne and some others, right? So, here's the two things that I would rebut with. So number one, Jeremy would be like if it was about the big beautiful bill alone, well Marjorie Taylor Green did vote for the big beautiful bill, but she came under at least the same kind of eye from Trump as Massie did. And then the second thing I would say is people that cross Trump on many other issues up to and including calling him America's Hitler basically being his perception of a bloodthirsty neocon Sheldon Adlesen's puppet as he called Marco Rubio differences on trade and H1B visas and regulations and spending. The Republican caucus represents a mass cross-section of people with divergent views on those things and they didn't get ousted. some people that stood with the Democratic establishment on Russia gate did not get pushed out in the way that Massie did.
So, what how would you answer that? I'm sorry for going long-winded.
>> No, it's all good. I was just I did uh throw the I've been meaning to tweet the live stream, so I just got that done real quick, but I was I I got the question. No problem. The the um the um it's that matters and you have to dig into like why each of these situations. So, yes, there's these other people who have broken with Trump. one is this a little bit of political kabi like do did they talk to Trump you know like Trump I think will a lot of it with Trump is are you uh you know respecting him you know are you uh recognizing that you know he's you know he's the king and he's the boss you know this is an attitude that he he really demands he demands a lot of loyalty he demands you know these kinds of things and so what was happening behind the scenes with some of these people you know you don't know um the big beautiful bill of course was like this was like all Trump's agenda like so you know they like you Massie likes the stats. Uh, and I agree that he does vote the right way. Again, arguably the best way. I wish, you know, I wish the big be I'm not like I'm not here like being like the big beautiful bill really was the >> Stop trying to push this bill, Jeremy.
>> Yeah, all Trump's agenda was in that bill and so he got really mad that people did it. Now, how how people get away with saying mean things about Trump, you know, I don't know that. I don't I you know, because I think that is the kind of thing he tends to take personally. Um uh but yeah, you know, Massiey's like he's he's up there with Roana and and look, I hope Massie has a strategy here. I hope it works out for him. I'm not here trying to throw Massie under the bus. I would like to see Look, I have a video from a couple of years ago that's like encouraging Thomas Massie to become the king of America.
>> I I was actually just gonna bring that up, dude, after you finish whatever you got to say.
>> So, yeah, look, if Massie wants to, you know, start raising a militia, like let's what's the plan here, dude? Like, you know, >> we're riding at Dawn, Jeremy. Didn't you get the the memo, dude? So yeah, so this is none of this is like anti-massy stuff. I'm just like what's this? Where where are we going? Where are we going from here? Because like look like look people are saying Massie should run the Libertarian party. I'm like oh my god dude he we're not trying to turn this guy into another Justin Amash. Like I and again Maj I mean Maj doesn't have anywhere near the balls to ever become king of America. But but you know he's not a bad guy despite I think he's a little bit like blue pill or stupid about some of these.
>> I hated his speech this weekend but I love the guy. I hated his speech.
>> Exactly. Well, because he now all what does he have left? He can't He ran as a Republican. He lost. All he has left is the this wing of the Libertarian party that loves him. This is the only bas has left. So, of course, he comes into Alpino. He's a good he is like not a terrible politician. He's obviously uh did screw up and like he recognizes this is who he has support from. He's going to go in and throw them. That's the equivalent of like red meat to the blue pill libertarian crowd, right? Like that's what that speech was. And uh and and they ate it up. They loved it. Okay.
Um, so but running libertarian, you know, look, I get it. Massie is great. He's not gonna he's not if there's a real again, if there's a real strategy, if like Massiey's maybe this is going to get Massie something else or there's a real strategy, I'm very open-minded. Uh, but the Libertarian party, it's not going to do it. It's not you're not getting to 50%. It doesn't matter. Like there's too many people locked in on red or blue.
It's just not you're not even the even the dream candidate, you know? I I just don't think they're getting there. And I think it would tank Massiey's political career. Uh and I'm not saying I would attack him for it. I'd probably like line up be like, "Yeah, go Massie."
Like, you know, like I Yeah. But I don't think it's good. I don't think it's good for his political career. I think he's got to I think if he wants to run in the Republican primary, you know, have another like, you know, Ron Paul lost, but he obviously created a lot of awareness and spread the message. And if Massie can spread a libertarian message and also like to see him spread a libertarian message like that is the other thing is you know um like I'm not again people think I like him end up endorsing the Epstein stuff or whatever and I don't but it's likeing the Epstein files is not this where does this get you know I don't think this gets us that far you know how do we actually shrink the government is is as always what I'm like the most interested in and uh you know and I don't even know that Massie can run on that message right like Massie has to run on like a different kind of message. You could hope he wins on it and then like gets in there and cuts it, but I don't see Massie winning with like a, you know, like a Malay style chainsaw to the government. I don't think the appetite for that is there in America. I wish it was, of course.
>> Uh, so yeah.
>> Yeah. I think, dude, I think just about everything you said there is super fair.
And don't get me wrong, I'd love to actually spend this next 50 minutes just arguing with you on Epstein because I made that such a major focus of my brand and my channel. But that's all right.
Like, you know, we'll we'll just stick to the topics here. But what I thought you said there was was so important, and you kind of imply what I think I think, and that's that the Libertarian Party is a tool in the toolbox. It's not an end in and of itself. You know, we're not like these tribalist fiends that just cling to this as if it has some like sacramental allore to us, right? So, if he runs as a Republican, I'll support him. If he runs as a Democrat, I'll support him. But I think I'm with you that he has a better shot to win as a Republican in the primaries. I don't think the masses are awakened to him.
But what he would present in a new age of independent media, that's so different, man, than it was in 2012 and 2008. Like that would be a stunning opportunity for libertarians. And I want to ask you about this cuz Dave Smith has made this point on several podcasts as he said that he thinks that this would be as significant a Massie presidential run as say like a Bernie Sanders phenomenon when he ran compared to say like the Ron Paul revolution and Pat Buchanan where you had some dissident and he was speaking the truth and waking some people up. But Bernie Sanders was seriously presenting a challenge to the establishment. Which of the two do you think it would be closest to?
>> Uh yeah.
Yeah, I think mass probably like a Bernie like a look a Bernie Sanders type outcome I think would be like near the ceiling but isn't impossible. I would hope again my hope is the problem is is like are you running it as like do do you get to get in some of the message that's that's pulling the country towards you know liberty like a lot of what ma again and again this isn't me saying don't but like a lot of what's attracted to Massie is it's like Israel stuff and it's Epstein stuff and I think that these are both I would like America to not be involved with Israel I think I suppose I probably would still support releasing files, you know, but it's just like I don't think any of these things Israel helps. It's but it's how much money is this? How much how is it how is it reducing like you know regulations and balancing the budget and getting rid of the welfare state and all of these sustained >> you know problems you know and so >> it's great that again it's great that he's built a base and you would again the hope you would hope like you would hope that he could leverage that and and get somewhere with it and maybe he can incorporate when he's running for president some of this stuff like you know he got away from his following isn't there for the debt pin you know like I love the debt pen right I eat that up >> do you have No, I don't have one, but I should buy one. They should buy one. Uh, you know, but I just don't think that's, you know, where where his a where a lot of the the current enthusiasm for him is coming from. And I get that as libertarians, we we that hey, our guy's getting more popular and we should I, you know, I support that. I'd like him to be more popular. I'd like him to be successful.
But if if the people that are you're going to be are your audience are now not going to care when you go back to the Liberty message or they're going to turn on you, you know, then that's also a you that's also a problem. So yeah.
Yeah, that is problem. And again, I I don't think I disagree with much you said there. I would say like a lot of the corporate narrative is that he's so against Israel, but really he maintains the same standard about foreign policy and applies it everywhere, including Ukraine and Venezuela and all sorts of other places. It just becomes more because Israel is more controversial, right? Don't you wouldn't you concede that? Maybe.
>> Yeah. Yes. It's very annoying how much time how much this is a a thing. I mean, not that it's not a real thing, but just all of it. It's it's I don't I don't like the right fracturing over it is is what bothers me.
>> Yeah, I gather that about you. That that makes sense. And I would, dude, I would organize single issue coalitions with neocons if I thought they were really good on like act.
>> Let's just nuke it. We'll just nuke all of them. We'll just nuke all We'll just nuke like we're done with this. Okay.
This is the cheapest way out. We're just going to be done with both sides forever. Okay. Uh and then it'll be unharmsteaded land. The New Hampshire libertarians will engage in a diaspora to conquer the glass. No. All right.
This is ridiculous. Uh I don't I just I want to be done with it. I want to be done with it. Then can we get back to crushing the left? I voted Trump because I wanted to crush the left. Okay. I want to fix >> But don't you see this as a diversion from that that so much emphasis is placed on it? But is it the fault of the people complaining about it or the fault of the policy makers driving it though?
>> Look, this this is what it is a it is a diversion and I don't like it and of course it's bad. But there's not a path like Trump gets what he wants. It's just the way it's just the way it works. It's just the way things work. Trump gets what he wants and Okay, I don't like it.
Okay, well, what does not liking it get me? What What does it do? How does like I again I like I like these people. I like Scott Horton. I was at the Rage Against the War, you know, rally when I was just in Michigan. I like I like the people organizing it. These are people I get along with. I like them. I like And I like the idea of not being at war, >> right?
>> But it we What is this?
>> It makes us feel good. We're all frustrated. Okay, that it that's something it accomplishes. It lets us be together. We're frustrated. We don't like this situation.
>> Yeah.
>> Where do we go? How does this get us anywhere? Like I you know, I'm very entrepreneurial about things. I'm very concerned about getting somewhere in the real, you know, world. What what you know, okay, like and it does accomplish people getting together. It's like, okay, what's the next step? Where are we going from here? We want how do we actually get somewhere?
>> You know, and these are the questions I'm always asking. And I just don't >> you know, I don't see it. And I do see if I just like hold my nose on some of this other crap that there are other things that maybe like could have happened and that libertarians could have gotten and now it feels like everyone's fighting and we're not and we're just going to get less and >> Yeah. Yeah, dude. That's a totally fair viewpoint. I would just say that like an equal number to people like you saying that there's no way out of this. We're just going to have the Israel attachment. We're going to have the wars. Trump will get what he wants. I'm trying to kind of paraphrase some of the things you just said. They would say that about like the welfare state and balanced budgets. That's just the way Washington is. You're not going to change it. So, let's try to change the warfare state. Right. Wouldn't there be that counterbalance on the other side of prioritizing issues than you are? Well, >> and I am frankly.
>> It just it's as long as you're if you're being against it while you're also proving some other strategy like you know like obviously like I think if there you know it you of course living in New Hampshire it's like if you want to be super purist and be like Trump sucks. Well, we have we have >> what state are you from? I forgot what state you're from.
>> Okay. So, let me spell it for you just to make sure everyone in your audience uh it's ne uh the what I the okay it's just these people who are just like against stuff and I get that you're against it. I'm not asking you to be for it and and maybe this is just how it works. Maybe just enough people have to be angry and then you know something happens. Uh, so I don't know, man. I But it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't feel like it's going anywhere. And where, you know, 2028, of course, all right, we want Massie to win. All right, what if he loses the primary? You know, what are we dealing with now? You know, and how do we because the left like this, they're they're still there. They're ready to go. They're way worse. This is the problem of being having beliefs that only 5 to 10% of the country holds.
You're just not going to get what you want very often.
>> Yeah. Yeah, you said it, man. You said it. I'm with you 100%. It's just it's it's the libertarian thing. We're such individualists and everyone has different strategies. And so far, we've mostly been talking about federal politics, but knowing you and from our personal conversations, I know like concentration on federal politics and asking for a savior to march into Washington and change things is not where we put our our energy and focus as far as fanatics of decentralization.
You're one of those. You're involved in the pre Free State Project. You're in New Hampshire. I've made several cracks about it. But New Hampshire is known for a special rebellious type of libertarian, many of which have moved for the Free State Project that much my audience is unaware of. So, can you explain the Free State Project, how it's like conducive to your preferred strategy for pushing liberty forward, etc.?
>> Yeah. So, there's a movement to concentrate libertarians in New Hampshire. It's rooted in the recognition that uh the belief, you know, that these beliefs are somewhat rare. Having been in um libertarian camps for a while, I would now say it's leans to a decent degree more right-wing libertarian, you know, uh it's a lot of people like we entirely get elected as Republicans. Uh and it's a it's a lot of boring stuff, honestly. Like this is what politics in the real world looks like.
Like there was a long thread put out by the committee to elect House Republicans earlier today and it was like this very detailed thread about how uh they're like fixing um you know there's supposed to be you know nonprecion from municipalities on gun rights but because there wasn't a penalty like all this stuff needs to be fixed and it's like detailed legal stuff where you have to like learn all these things that you resent having to exist in your brain because you're like why you know and uh but this is this is what it takes in the real world like this is what people are doing and like figuring out how you how you do these like little little things, you know, the amount like, you know, clever political maneuvers or or you know, we have like a sort of a liberty a ratchet, you know, ratchet effect where like it's just like gets a little bit better, gets a little bit better, attract a little more people and it's a very, you know, kind of realist, grueling, uh, boring. It's the opposite of a rally, you know, like reality, you go to a rally, you feel real good. I say, "Yeah, we're cheering." So, every had a great time. So, what happened at that? Well, nothing. you know, there's no difference. And then it's like, oh my god, we we knocked doors for 2,000 hours to like make the state like 0.05% smaller, you know, but the second thing is like often the thing that actually works. Uh, you know, and and um but if you get enough of those people together and you do it time after time, like I do feel like things are getting better here all the time. I do feel like the culture here is different than anywhere else.
So, uh it's it's pretty cool. I encourage everyone to go for uh a visit here sometime and and uh uh check it out. Um I have a group my the the free state party group will also do um uh we we're a little bit more selective uh but we uh do sort of custom uh planning and trips for people uh who sort of meet our our quality >> unless they're from Massachusetts. You you draw some lines here, right? The southern border needs to be locked up.
the the the you know I've actually since learned you know I do I Massachusetts of course deserves our hey we like to call it Mordor uh is a common name for it here in New Hampshire but uh the uh I've learned that the data says because I you know I want to know it's true and the data guys told me they showed me some convincing data that the average Republican who's or the average Massachusetts person who moves to New Hampshire is a Republican who's like frustrated by gun laws and they're certainly not a hardcore libertarian but they're better than the average you know New Hampshire resident essentially so they're helping uh uh uh you know they're helping move the needle a little bit and a lot you know they because they'll they'll line up and they vote R and our our R our Rs about half of them you know tend to be quite a bit more radical like we really do have like you nanning Tom Manion like you know Tom Manion is a Thomas Massie type >> I love Tom he's the best man shout out I hope he watches Tom you're the man dude he said some great moments like on audio in your legislature when he's like no I implore you taxation is theft when they're saying like it's against the rules you can't be saying that right now. I mean, that's a libertarian screed, right? But it's pretty funny, too.
>> There there's a clip of like a dozen different state reps going to the mic uh and saying taxation is theft uh you know, from here in New Hampshire. And one of the cool things is like we have a rep for like whatever your issues like.
So like Tom's a veteran, you know, big on defend the guard is like the one he's and so like people pick up different beats, you know, like Lisa Majour is like very big on like the transgender, you know, stuff and like the stopping the gender ideology. You know, of course, like Travis Corkran's this like big brain autist, you know, uh gets into all the policy weeds.
>> I think he follows me, too. That name sounds familiar, too.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, there's there's all these really cool state reps here who are worth following or checking out or having on your show sometimes. I'm always happy to uh you know, connect people.
>> I'll I'll definitely probably take you up on that, Jeremy. Um so, a few things.
So, first of all, you talked about that people should make the trip to New Hampshire, see what it's like. you guys.
What struck me about you from meeting you, Jeremy, and I think I only met you in 2020 at that convention in Orlando.
Actually, we kind of become friends since then, but the first time I met you was at this Libertarian Party of New Hampshire pizza party, right? And we gathered around the convention hall and it was you evangelizing, giving your best like preacher stump speech for moving to New Hampshire. But you're like, "But don't take it so hardcore.
Just move there. See what it's like."
And it's just apparent already from this conversation that like how easy it is for libertarians to meet representatives there and actually, you know, learn from them, learn with them, help form coalitions with them on a level that you don't see from other states. And what this has the advantage of, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the top pitches of this is it, you know, it doesn't really matter so much what the composition of the legislature is necessarily. If you coalition along the single issue line rather than along the lines of tribal political identities, Democratic or Republican, you actually can make things happen on a local level with political allies you never would have thought of before. And you don't have to have a single libertarian in office to do that, right? What would you say about that?
>> Uh well, I I think a lot of these people are small libertarians. We definitely do see some singleisssue coalitioning. Um where uh the there was some um you know there I think there were some zoning reforms that were Republican and Democrats. It was kind of half and half from each party uh where was the Libertarian half of the Republican wing uh that that did some of these. Although even there there was internal division.
I think this can work. It's similar to the Massie kind of thing with like you you still have to play ball if like and I and I and I think that they do. I think that again with who are our political leaders here, if they're talking this stuff out, right, if the governor and the other half of your party feels that you're being a traitor too often, they're going to work on primary you, you know, they're going to work on on they're not going to pass your bills now in exchange. And so, it's a lot of negotiating. It's a lot of um figuring this stuff out, you know, behind the scenes and trying to reach understandings where I think I think our political leaders here in New Hampshire are doing a good job where like they we are at times at times we're giving social conservatives legislation that I would be rather ambivalent on as a libertarian say, but they're now passing the bills that I want as a libertarian.
And to me, this kind of horse trading is perfectly, you know, acceptable because it advance on net. It advances it advances the ball and and so uh I think Yeah. So I think it's like it's it's it's delicate. It it can happen. It definitely can happen where rep it's half Democrats and half Republicans, uh you know, doing something, but a lot of times it's like just through the Republican party. Like a lot of the a lot of the good liberty bills end up being near our near unanimous are because I your audience might not know this like New England is regarded as blue. Our entire state government is red and has been for some time. Uh it has been for like six years in a row or something like this. So it's Republican majority in both h uh branches of the of of our house or whatever both branches of the legislature and we have a Republican governor. um as well as this we have this thing called executive counsel and that's also all Republicans and so it is often it's mostly through the Republican party with occasional breaks.
>> Yeah. I wanted to make clear too I wasn't trying to assert that there's no libertarians in in terms of like the like the small L libertarian in north or in New Hampshire but there's not any elected libertarians on the libertarian party. That's kind of my point, right?
Is like there's this idea in the Libertarian party, a world set free in our lifetime and it exists solely to put libertarians in office when we push our ideas regardless of bad political outcomes. That should be the mantra of every libertarian and New Hampshire is making it happen. I do before you respond to that though, Jeremy, I do want to give some shout outs. I see some members of Libertarian Party of Tennessee in the chat too, including our chair, Josiah Baker. Um Samantha is here, the vice chair, and just give them a shout out because I love my affiliate, too. I'm still involved real close locally, though not as exactly at the national level, but go ahead and respond too.
>> Well, now I have to say nothing but nice things about the Libertarian Party because Tennessee is in the chat. I there we I sat behind them at convention. Well, all of our all of the New Hampshire people did. It was awesome. Best possible people to uh sit next to. Uh you know, a lot of people a lot of people are calling uh Tennessee the New Hampshire of the South. I have you.
>> I I saw you post that on Twitter and it kind of makes us like second fiddle though. So, I don't know what what to think about that man.
>> Uh you know, I thought I thought you guys I thought that was a nice little troll for you guys. Uh Tennessee really is a great state. I think anyone move from bad states to good states, right?
This is something that um maybe it won't be New Hampshire. Maybe it'll be somewhere else, you know? But like if if people at least start thinking that way, I think that is, you know, good. If you're in a bad state, leave it and go somewhere where you'll be around more people who share your values. You'll, you know, you'll feel psychologically healthier, you'll feel better, you know.
Um, so, uh, I think in terms of the libertarian, uh, uh, uh, there's something else I was going to respond to about, uh, about libertarian party stuff, but I forget what it was.
>> Oh, we'll talk about the disaffiliation in next segment, but let's let's stay to the strategy right now. So one of the things that I I know that you are a big fan of is this idea of radical political decentralization. However it manifests whether it's like nullification or secession. We can't exactly get Hans her hopian covenant communities right now.
But the you know maybe the closest thing that's achievable is on a state level.
That's what north or I keep saying north New Hampshire is doing. And what I think so interesting about New Hampshire compared to maybe any other state is how close-knit the libertarians are and how close geographically proximal they are. And that has huge ramifications for organization that we just don't have here. And my friend Scott Sheller, who I know you know, great guy. He's always talking about the parties he throws and you know, libertarians across the state go to the the Shell House or whatever he's calling it, right? So >> yeah. Yeah. We have this whole network of club houses which is definitely a cool part of being here. There's these liver chain club houses. They put on events. They're like community centers.
Uh and uh they're spaces that um you know, you're probably never farther than probably if you're north, you might be more than an hour from one, but anywhere in the southern part of the state, there's one within 30 minutes of you basically. And that's just uh it's it's another great part of of being here. Um you know, I the it's just the only way that I see it working. It's I would actually say so I certainly like decentralization. Um I think what it really is is it's competition. It's the right com to me it's competition is the thing that makes uh that sort of stops um you know abuses the government has um you know has a monopoly on violence. It has a monopoly uh you know on on taxation all these things and and not only does it do that it exerts its authority uh you know basically worldwide. And so a lot of it a lot of it comes from the fact that you know nothing new can be done. You know this might sound strange for a libertarian. I generally am like skeptical of the ideas of monopolies. But when a private corporation has disproportionate market power you clearly get treated worse right? Like I don't need to this not I'm not betraying libertarianism when we you know when we acknowledge this. This is true. You know when corporations you when you know restaurants are which are very competitive right there's lots of restaurants I can go to. I tend to get treated pretty well in a restaurant right? um I'm not I'm not participating democratically on what that restaurant is going to serve me. You know that that entrep but because the entrepreneur is in competition he you know he or she or they try to uh um uh do the best that they can for me. And so government has gotten really bad I think part partially for this reason uh you know is that we're kind of in this like igopoly of of nations working together or the United States and a couple of small number of nations like exerting their force worldwide. And so it's a tough path to getting to something new, but something new, you know, the idea of like the United States being reformed within via democracy. I'm just so skeptical of this. Uh, you know, I suppose if someone wanted to plot something more radical, again, I've seeded my nasty for King idea, so we don't need to rehash that one, you know, but absent, uh, you know, absent this, I think it's something new.
I think it's something new starting somewhere. Whether it's one of these startup cities, whether it's enough density in New Hampshire, you know, uh maybe it's on the mar on Mars or the moon, you know, I don't know. Uh and I I don't I'm not putting too many um uh too many dollars on that one, but it's something it's something new. That's the key. Uh is it's got to be something new.
Uh that's that's how we got here in the first place, right? This was something new.
>> Yeah. The Free State Project started in what, like 2007, something like that.
When did Saurin write the white paper?
Do you remember?
>> Yeah, it was it was around then. It's um it was maybe even a little earlier than that, but it's preceded. It's I mean it feels like it's really accelerating in the last five years or so uh that I've been here. But but I mean I mean America itself, right? Like America itself has once something new, you know, the that all of these ideas were new. Every everything great was new once, you know, and so that we clearly have not solved governance. It's the great unsolved problem. And uh this is this is you know the experiment that it's there's not that much for the public at this point but that's what I'm doing with the free state party. It's this uh private club that I've actually raised quite a bit of money for. Uh that's sort of sort of like a free state network state if you come off across this idea of network states. Um but it's this it's a governance experiment. It's we're we're literally performing experiments in sort of you know alternative structures to get groups of human beings to cooperate towards a shared you know towards a shared end towards a tilos towards a set of values. You know we we're all we're all trapped in America you know trying to trying to steer this unsteerable uh you know ship and we're not getting anywhere. Um you know and now we're just saying hey let's make a charge you know let's make let's make another run at this again. I was like, "Well, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what makes you think it's going to work this time, you know."
>> Yeah. I mean, Jeremy, that was like the original like mantra of American exceptionalism in its original form, not the boomer form that purports, hey, America is exceptional, so we have to police the world. But the idea that we were a federal republic, right? That there were supposed to be differences between the states. Both Articles of Confederation and the Constitution acknowledged that. And much more deference to the federal government came years later. and we're living in that world. But still there are the these cultural barriers to some extent, these boundaries that we should be living in maybe Tennessee or New Hampshire differently than people say live in California. And that was the intention.
That wasn't a defect. That's actually the feature. And I want to ask you this because I think I think you know Jeff D as well, right?
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Yeah. Jeff Dist is a good friend of mine and one of his interesting ideas is this idea that we're in this like post-political era in which people have dropped all their pretenses and it's just like it's impossible to convince people to latch on to the ideas we might prefer and at some point you start you stop losing interest and trying to persuade others and you just say you know no let's sec secede from each other let's go our separate ways let's concentrate as people are doing in in North Carolina but I would say the devil's advocate to that and I want to hear your response to this is like it seems to me a lot easier to like convince people of wanting to abolish say like the CIA or IRS than to support like radical concentration or secession.
Do you agree or what would you say about that?
>> Uh it maybe is. It's not, you know, it's not clear that you can. One of the things that's nice about this sort of concentration strategy is it has when I when I start a business, I always want my next customer to be cheaper than my last customer. Like my customer acquisition costs, I want it to fall, right? So so each marginal customer is cheaper, right? This a great this is a great spot to be in when with the business. And this is where I feel like this concentration strategy like very much is like it was really hard to be one of these first people to move to New Hampshire. And it's still not uh easy to, you know, uproot your life, change your life. This is something that all of our ancestors did, you know, that uh that everyone has done that the humans have done throughout history. Humans are actually really good at moving somewhere else. you know, this is something we have a lot of experience with and and it's gotten easier to do that than it, you know, it ever has been because because of that density and and then when that person moves, it gets that much easier for the next person. And so this is something where even if it's a like, you know, drip drip drip, like it does eventually like get there with each generation, the de the overall demographic makeup percentage libertarian is is getting a little bit better. And that to me, well, you know, I don't know when it's going to happen, but it has the properties of something that's going to succeed eventually, you know, whereas how the the the democratic one or the nationwide one, it's like, well, the country being united on something doesn't make the executive branch do it. You know, you basically got your once every four year shot to get an executive that wants it and, you know, to get half of Congress. And if you don't do that on Bitcoin, whatever your one idea is, you know, it doesn't never happen. We do. So, I'm not trying to like be black belt about it. Like, we do occasionally see popular campaigns on an issue and and then Congress and the president pass a bill. Like, this does happen. So, I'm all for I'm all for people trying. And if it doesn't work, of course, you know what you should do.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I talked about this subject with Tom Woods last night, too. Neither of us really thinks that there's like a silver bullet uh panacea, let's say, to solve all of our issues. I'm kind of a all the tools in the toolbox guy because I believe in the division of labor even but in our own movement, right? I mean, Misesus was right to talk so much about division of labor because every movement needs messengers. They they if they're a political party, they needs cam campaigners. They need issue organizers and activists and managers and all the all the different spokes in the wheel, so to speak. Concentration is one of those I can get behind because I just have such an affinity for localism and federalism and lo acting out on a local level. Not only because of, you know, the issues that you can push and drive, but how historically precedented it is that you can affect the culture in that direction and eventually the politics.
Some examples I cite is like the Stamp Act rebellion that didn't rely on a single party within the parliamentary legislatores. It's the people acting out in resistance against the moral or egregious laws. You had the fugitive slave crisis in the 1850s. You had prohibition. None of this was ever changed on the basis of like a particular legislative composition, let's say. It's a it's a downstream effect of what Breitbart was talking about when he said politics is downstream from culture. Don't you think? Or do you would you disagree with this?
>> Yeah. Uh well, I do agree that uh I I mean I think they're intertwined. Uh, so I do think like I don't I don't think that I think they're very intertwined and and I know this is what you just said, but it called back to talking about being post um I don't know if you said the phrase post ideology specifically, but you're basically saying something along these lines where you we very much are. We had a um I'm in addition to seeing Jesse that we had uh Kevin Dolan out here in New Hampshire recently who I'm a fan of.
>> Oh yeah, I met Kevin. He's a great guy.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. And he uh you he's basically saying the same kind of thing and we see this in the libertarian sphere. Like what are our differences here over ideology? Like how large are how large in terms of all the libertarian party fighting? How much of this is sincerely over ideology? Very little.
>> I can't wait to talk to you about that.
Actually, go on. Make your point.
>> So, so very little. And so this is this is um you know, this is true. Uh you know, this is where we at where we're at. and and this um these ways in which we're splitting, they're getting more and more serious and they're eating their ways into more and more areas, you know, and it it it there it's not clear to me that it's it's it's slowed down.
Um you know, like I know maybe I know Trump like probably accelerated it and like what slows it down? What's the sign of any of this slowing down? Uh it doesn't, you know, I'm not really seeing it.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. The the the push back to like the differences in libertarian ideology I would make is that like in terms of a policy level, I think I would agree with you. But I I just got to say, Jeremy, when you know, half of let's just say Libertarianism, Inc., you know, views democracy as a good thing or January 6 as an insurrection or that you know the lock stay at home, right? Ma mask up and stay at home. Like those are pretty substantial differences. They might not pan out in terms of policy, but they're certainly different in terms of ideology, right?
>> They are, but it's like this is like, you know, what kind of American are you?
Like this those issues, they're not they all cleave the same way. Like they all cleave the same way. Uh all the disagreements in the Libertarian Party cleave the same way, you know.
>> Yeah. Well, let's talk about some of those differences. The one we wanted to make an agenda item here is that recently, right after taking office, the newly elected LNC, for those that don't know, the Libertarian Party throws an annual convention every two years. We just had ours just this last weekend. I wasn't there. Jeremy was there. I would have loved to be there to to chat with people. Didn't make it this year. But again, LPTN, who is in this channel, some of the board was there. They did talk to you, which is awesome. So, they're going to be smeared as as hateful anti-semmites for making friends with a Jewish guy. Um, but anyways, but I what I would say is that what happened there that has become so controversial and Jeremy kind of plays something of a role in is he's the current chair of the North Carolina affiliate. And what this newly elected board did the moment they got elected literally at the convention, their first LNC meeting was they decided to disaffiliate the Libertarian Party.
and the grounds in which they did it is support for Trump. Now, this is ironic and Jeremy will make the counterargument in a second, but was anyone on your current board or any broadcasted message from the current Libertarian Party of New Hampshire endorsing Trump.
>> Yeah.
>> Even if even if they were in >> So, yeah. So, we were Well, the disfiliation is not real yet, right?
Like, we're still Libertarian Party. Uh there's a a whole complicated process and then I expect there will be unfortunately a whole drawn out legal battle which these people don't care if they win or not. They don't care about what's true or what's real. Like they um they have to uh stop you know any any uh you know any yes any bigot any racist anyone who's anti-Semitic anyone who's basically at any time exists outside of the leftist worldview the leftist hive mind you know must be stopped. That's that's part of this weird part about these uh left-wing people. You they can't they can't have a conversation with you and their brains like can't even entertain your existence, right?
Like none of these people on the I one of the funniest interactions I had I'm not I will I'm not trying to avoid the question. I will come back to it. But one of the funniest interactions I had at convention was this guy came up to me. He's like do you know that uh a lot of people don't like you? I was like and he said and why? And I said, "Yeah, like but do you know why a lot of people like me?" And he couldn't answer the question. Like he can't because the things that I say like there's a lot of true things that I say and it's like, you know, they just want to say that it's like racist or bigoted. And it's like, well, there's arguments here.
There's facts here. You know, I have a degree in physics. I've, you know, I have a lot of business success. I'm a fact-oriented guy. I'll have a calm, careful. I'll we can do this written form. I'll cite studies. I'll site, you know, we can they don't want to have this kind of uh conversation, you know.
Uh so the disaffiliation was ostensibly about a Trump endorsement which did happen. The Libertarian Party of New Hampshire did endorse Trump two years ago. Uh that was two executive committees ago. I didn't vote for it and neither did any member of our current executive committee vote for it. So, they're punishing a member organization of several hundred people and I guess trying to make them all start over because of something that four people It's only four people who voted for it.
Um, or I think it was Sorry, it was a three to1 vote. I think it's three.
>> No, it was 15 to two. It was 15 to two to one.
>> No, no, that was at at Sorry. No, I'm talking about when Trump was endorsed by LP.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Jeremy. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Yeah, totally. No, the LNC. So, it was a 3 to1 vote of our executive committee because I was an interim member and I wasn't allowed to vote, which is what our bylaws say. So, it was a 3 to1 vote and uh you know, it passed and it happened. Um I you know, we could talk about the pros and cons of that, but it wasn't the people who are in charge currently. People don't seem to be able to tell the difference between various LPN iterations, but it has changed over the years. There's different people who have come in and out, different people who have posted and we tend to be let a lot of different people post and so some people have left of their own choices and the account is going to end up sounding a little bit different because even though we have some similarities, you know, it changes and so you know a lot of people though um lump it all together. It's really though, but again, it's really just that we'll violate leftist, you know, um, whatever you want to call it, uh, inviable things, sacraments, sacred things that you, you know, you can't violate if you want to be on the left. And these aren't fact-based, right? Like look at look at the way that transgender and not that this is the specific issue, although we have been talking about trans stuff and I'm sure it doesn't help. Like the the person who denies the science of of of gender, of sex, you can't have a factual conversation with this kind of person.
It's an ideology. You're a bigot. you're a trans phobe, there's no factual conversation to be had. And so it's the same kind of thing, the same kind of like hide mind. And that's why they can't cite anything, you know? That's why like they're like and other libertarian statements.
>> I was just going to bring that up. The rest of their statement was so nebulous.
It actually didn't point to specifics.
And they used a total of like 10 minutes of debate on this, Jeremy. It was like they had this pre-ordained, pre-planned, ready to do it. And and I just got to say, Go ahead.
>> Yeah. They couldn't they don't get an up and down vote. They couldn't literally well they could have suspended the rules and not convention, but they don't get an up or down vote. They don't ask they didn't run on it, right? None of them mentioned it in their speeches. Uh but of course they're um yeah, they're they're playing it behind the whole scenes uh the whole time. Um I don't care that much. Uh both because they're so stupid and they did it in such a stupid way that um it's not going to end up working. And then also the more that they tried to quash me like when I got on the first time I started talking by the way on on on the live stream that was the that was the moment comments were turned off uh in the live stream. So they had comments on the live stream until I was on stage.
>> That checks that checks.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like this is this this is just who they are. You know Stephen Aalia like he lied to my face you know multiple times. Like we tried to work this out you know we'd offered concessions and we would do what he said. he wouldn't do what he said, you know. Um I think he is a uh quite a liar and quite a dishonest person. Um you know, he was one of the few that was talking and then he uh you know, he just betrayed uh all the commitments that, you know, they made to us. And if the Libertarian Party wanted to grow, they'd be working with us. We're the most successful state affiliate by a number of metrics, you know, and >> yeah, >> you know, we we have, you know, the most Libertarian Party members, uh you know, per capita. Uh, you know, we have a huge social following. We're generating all this earned media. I know that our it means they're not elected as a libertarian, but literally every year running for the past four years, a member of our executive committee has stepped down, run for office as a Republican, and gotten elected. Okay.
And it's probably going to happen again this year. Uh, and so it's like >> Rob Hall, our friend Robbley Hall's one of those people, too, right?
>> Roley Hall.
>> I love Rob.
>> Yeah. Like, so Roley Hall used to be on the LNC. he got involved with LPNH and now he's an elected Republican uh yeah in the in the state house. It's like yeah that's a much better use of his time like he's actually getting stuff done here and these kid these people it's like they're not they're it's just theater like this is the only place they can be like and and and they get to have their titles and they get to have and it and it's the only way they're going to get anything. And I mean I get it. I was kind of like the mean kid who who's like went to take the ball from the group of retards.
>> I don't see it. I I don't know, man.
That's not you. I >> Well, I was I was mean. I said mean things to their face. And I think it's a harsh truth. You know, it's things that I think they need to hear, but um you know, I don't know that there's any way I could have said it. Uh and uh that that you know, they want to hear it. I don't I don't think they're capable of hearing it. But a lot of people are talking about New Hampshire, which I always like. Uh, more people are learning that we've got a sort of different cut of libertarian up here than the national LP. Like I don't want like how many people in the national LP would you want to move to Tennessee at this point? Like like what's the >> I think I think three. I I think >> I want to say a few things though because there's so many ironies here.
I'm on good terms with Stephen. I don't always see intraarty strategy with him.
He's my friend. We often disagree on intra party stuff. I just want to lay that out there. What I will say, and I guess I add some insight on this, I am a former member of the LNC. I was a regional representative for um my region, which was region two, I believe, at the time. So, what I' I'd say is that the bylaws do give the party the ability to disaffiliate affiliates. We actually did it once, but only after that party knew New Mexico made it clear that they wanted to disaffiliate. And our measure was to make it legally sound such that we could start up a new affiliate, you know, and they could be the new affiliate because that other affiliate, I think, joined like the the Liberal Party, right? The godforsaken Liberal Party. But what I would say here, Jeremy, is what would you say to a devil's advocate that says, "Well, Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, even if it does have some successes in the metrics that you have, it's damaging to the branding of the National Party because you've had tweets. And I don't know if this was you or not. I don't care. I don't police tweets. I don't give a crap. That said stuff like send the blacks back to Africa and stuff like that and they don't want that associated with their brand. How would you respond to someone that says, "Hey, there's good faith reasoning that this happened."
>> Yeah. So, I'm not sure we've ever said something quite like that. We have talked about, for example, reparations.
It would be uh you you could offer blacks reparations. They want reparations. You could give them, you know, trips or travel where they have to move out of the United States and go back to Africa. That's just good sound fiscal policy, Dave. I mean, that would clearly save money. Okay. And then we're libertarians. Do we like good fiscal policy or or not? You know, I just don't, you know, >> would you do that to Thomas Soul? I mean, come on, man. Like, as a universal, >> Hold on. But we also have tweets where we say Thomas Saul would clearly be a better namer than people whites. Okay.
So, we we're clear. We're clear. Look, all right. I if you ask me I'm I you know I'm someone asked me the other day I'm quite blunt about these things like how you know there's some black uh men who would be great here how many out of like all of them in America we're talking about you know one out of a couple hundred maybe I wouldn't take most white men either by the way but it's a much higher ratio than that you know it's it's probably something like you know maybe two out of 10 or something like this would are pretty compatible you know if you're uh uh something, you know, maybe one out of 10, two out of 10. Like this is what the data says. I'm not making this stuff up.
Like you there's pulling on this. Like I'm not just I'm not just pulling this out of my butt on my own experiences, although it does match my own experiences. I was just at the Libertarian Party National Convention.
Okay? It's clearly not uh racially representative. And that's not because of LPNH tweets. It's been that way its entire existence. Okay? these the you know countries yeah there might be paths that matter but a lot of it's the makeup of the the the people that live in them and these outcomes aren't random okay they're not and it it's not I'm not for you know racially screening or you know or anything like this I don't think it race is deterministic about anyone and I've been clear about this but it's not it's not irrelevant either it's not uh and and if you're selecting for libertarians it's going to look a certain way just because that's who the libertarians are.
And and so even if I say this, you know, I don't I don't think that was uh too racist, but they wouldn't they can't even hear this idea, the people who have a problem with it. And so a lot of it is >> you'd think it could be such lowhanging fruit if they're so against it that they could actually defeat it in discourse or argumentation, right? Like >> Yeah. Well, but they can't. And a lot of this is about resolving their own cognitive dissonance. Like they have this hippie this like they talk about setting the whole world free. They have this hippie these hippie-ish naive beliefs about the world that are simply not correct. And libertarians who can face that and update can get to a different place.
Libertarians who can are going to you know plug their ears and uh you know push out the guy who is making them think these things that make them uncomfortable rather than face them you know and it's not it's really not more complicated than that. And to elaborate on again, I thought Stephen was gonna be better. The thing that he misre was like I was like we talked multiple times about you can lean into this like people like if you're trying to because you they're literally talking at convention about how do we get the youth? It's like dude we do you know how many people are named like New Hampshire nationalist Zoomer you know like who have ex accounts on on in New Hampshire now like you know we have a youth following. We have youth here who like what we're, you know, who like what we're doing and, you know, they don't want to learn from it.
You could be doing, you could lean into the controversies, you know, you could be having debates on these issues. You could lean into federalism, this idea that these ideas that we believe in, right? Like, let's suppose that literally everyone in New Hampshire is a bigoted uh racist, anti-semitic, whatever they want to believe that we are. Okay? Wouldn't it be better that everyone in the United States who thinks those awful thoughts goes and lives in one place away from you? Like, you know, it it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Like, so we're the any any libertarian nation, any libertarian America, people are going to sort themselves out based off of their cultural beliefs, you know, based off of their religious beliefs, based off of these various things. This is inevitable result. And so, why wouldn't the Libertarian Party want to lean into this? Like we don't generally go around uh you know complaining that you know Louisiana wants to you know celebrate transgender.
>> I was gonna bring them up too man. I was gonna bring them up.
>> Yeah, >> Jeremy. There's this massive untapped reservoir of furry libertines that are just aching to embrace libertarian ideas. Right.
>> Yeah. Well, >> that's what the Louisiana party posts about a lot. I'll just say, >> you know, they're not they're not wrong that there is this cohort of people that is libertine and res is really doesn't want to be judged there. That's what attracted them to libertarianism. Like these people exist that and clearly a lot of them are in the libertarian party. Um so it's it you know it it's not a path to anything. Uh it's you know but you can get the like one out of uh you know 1000 thousand or you know whatever Americans maybe it's one out of two or three thousand that are like you know very permissive and libertine people and that permissiveness and libertiness both you know encourages hard drug use and fedom and uh no taxes and guns um you know you know like that and that they all that all this we met these people like I know they're real okay um if they want to you know they could have their lane and I could have my lane and we could cooperate like that'd be fine. Uh they don't want that.
None of these people who have had a problem have ever allowed that to happen. It's uh New Hampshire has to get in line, you know, and that's the only offer. Well, it's like no. Uh the Libertarian Party is designed to be decentralized. You know, it's designed to let state affiliates pursue strategies for themselves.
And ours is working. It's working really well. So screw you. Uh and now like all they're gonna do is make us bigger. we get more money, we're going to get more following. We're not going to lose the name. Okay, this is gonna be they're we're not gonna lose the name. It's not going to happen. Not unless they're prepared to spend a lot of time and waste a lot of money. And I think >> I mean, I just think that there's no win if you're trying to salvage the party at the time when it's already under financial distress to basically force through a violation of members rights a new lawsuit because of that deprivation of rights. So, here's what I would answer in terms of the branding question. And here's how I'd say it, Jeremy. We talked about other affiliates that did stuff, you know, completely different. And there's never like a rally and cry to disaffiliate them when I think it's at least equally harmful to the branding to see some of the stuff they posted. But I'd say, you know what's harmful to the branding? It's to kind of celebrate and entertain a naked guy dancing on stage, to post Church of Satanism memes on Easter, and to call Ron Paul a Russian asset. All of which are things that happen under the leadership of the Libertarian Party. I'd say that it just seems to me that there's this this brand of egalitarian centric libertarian Jeremy that that almost describes like religious significance to egalitarianism. But what's the extension of that? The extension of that is, as Rothbart said, it's a revolt against human nature. It means that all of us have to have equal not only rights, but opportunities. And I'm sorry, but I would love to have the opportunity to inherit like a1 billion dollar fortune or dunk like LeBron James, but I can't exactly do that. So the extension of that is that government through coercion takes wealth from one class and redistributes it to another class, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. It's it's it's they don't they don't have a coherent worldview. It doesn't work.
Like it's it's it's it's insanity. And again, and that's also I mean I'm repeating myself at this point, but that's why they don't engage. That's why they like, you know, they don't want to hear those Rothbartian arguments made to their face. They don't want to they've never read this stuff. these people read go and read spend time reading Robert's rules of order. They've never read, you know, libertarian, you know, theory. Uh so, ah, you know, it's a it's a little bit of an annoyance. It's also to a decent degree uh like not too bad for us. Yeah.
Sorry. Wait, wait.
>> See, well, Dave, if you had been there, you know, maybe the good guys would have won. All we needed is one of those guys.
No, I know I'm sure plenty of people on both sides have read it. I'm actually I'm begrudgingly getting increasingly familiar. Um um but I I I also think I'm not going to spell them all out, but there's also one particular outcome uh that I think would be very funny. Uh and um uh possibly Yeah, I don't know. We'll we'll see.
We'll see where it all goes. You know, New Hampshire's not uh you know, New Hampshire's not backing down. I think they're creating a situation where uh it's just going to be a big mess probably all the way through the presidential uh election, you know, next year.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. We'll see what happens from that. So, two things. One thing is that I think it's particularly ironic that you actually ran as to be chair on a platform of dissolving the party. And it looks like, you know, there's some stirrings within the party that could cause so much financial dedication to resources that this could seriously threaten the party if it goes through.
And I, you know, people might be questioning your motives. Is this part of some 40 master plan? You know, can you answer to that? You're you're not in on this the whole time, right?
>> I mean, all see their cues. They're not listening to you, Jeremy.
>> I'll tell you the amount of times that I've like. not like always the strategy, but you know, sometimes you just like charge in like a bull and stuff just works out in your favor. And that's something that I've had happen to me uh you know, before in my life, and it might have just happened to me again this weekend, you know, uh because look, there was again there was no discussion to be had like this idea that there was any uh like that there there's any open-mindedness that there's anything to be you talking about. They were clearly plotting all of this, you know, the whole time. So, um I think that they in their you people and again some people get so frustrated by me. I I swear they lose like 15 IQ points and they just make stupid mistakes. They just make all these unforced errors. Uh and I don't think they really thought through what they were doing here. And I think it is going to end up being a little bit of an unforced error. Uh I did not I didn't want them to do this. Like that wasn't my plan was not >> I believe you. I don't think like any of the libertarian you guys could have disaffiliated. You guys have your own independent streak. You guys could have severed the cord yourselves if you would have won it.
>> So, >> yeah. Right. Well, we're interested in being the libertarian party because we're libertarians, right? Like the Libertarian Party is the reason that other people won't call themselves small libertarians, you know, and so I'm interested uh I'm interested in solving that problem, you know. I am interested in having a brand of libertarianism that uh you know uh you know, people want to uh associate with. But I think we have one here that a lot of people do. You know, it's just a little bit louder. Um and it is a little bit more um you know, right-wing. Uh but it's it's what works, you know, it's what works for us here.
>> So um yeah, I don't know. Uh we we have the save website. So savelph.com. Uh we are raising money uh for uh legal defense.
Uh and then also I think we're probably going to do a billboard. you know, just have some fun with it. Uh make sure uh make sure we continue to establish that the Libertarian Party uh you know is our name. Uh because we are libertarians and that's what we're going to call ourselves, you know. And so, uh, I think, um, hopefully more neutrals will, uh, see, or maybe we'll get some of the other states together, uh, to see, you know, I know that, uh, there's there's some rumblings about other states, you know, pledging to, uh, you know, disaffiliate, uh, or, uh, you know, or do other things, you know, striking out.
>> Oh, yeah. I saw that there was like an anonymous letter that articulated some grievances or something, right, that was posted.
>> Yeah. Well, my understanding is that some >> Yeah, basically some um ballot access in some states is tied to the local like that local state party and so if that local state party were to leave national, national would not have ballot access.
>> This is true. We litigated this on my term on the LNC. This is absolutely true. Um let's get to some super chats.
Jeremy, I I what I'll say before we do that though is two things. First of all, I'm not that involved in the National Libertarian Party anymore. I am involved in my local affiliate. LPTNN is TN is awesome. We're doing great things. We're actually moving legislative, you know, agendas. We've introduced Defend the Guard. We've gotten a Monsanto bill killed once or twice. Josiah could correct me on that, but I say we ride it dawn for LPN TN or LPNH, man. I mean, I think that this is just treating you guys terribly. We ride it don for LPNH.
Um, and then the last thing I want to give some more credit to Josiah Baker because one of the things we say it's just out of humor. It's not to, you know, destroy people or whatever to make like the egalitarian libertarian headspin or maybe let's say the blue pill or left-wing libertarian is we like to say Trump is [ __ ] Why? Because they don't want to do anything that would object to demeaning Trump, but they also don't want to attach their name to calling something [ __ ] So, they can't exactly respond to that very cleanly. But, I digress. I get a kick out of that stuff. I don't know why, but any response before we go to super chats?
>> Uh, no. Well, I I will say one more time, I love meeting uh the chair of of Tennessee, and I think Sam was the vice uh and uh there I I don't remember his name, but there's a gentleman who's sitting uh right in front of me uh from my seat, and we ended up chatting a bunch, and he was a really cool dude, too. We had a big party in like Tennessee, and all these people came out. So there there's plenty of support for us inside the you know national party and we want to support the states that are you know supporting you know are are are supporting us and so I will also say the states that are supporting New Hampshire you know I don't know exactly what we can do for them from this position but we you know we like those guys too and anything we you know we can do to help help keep the libertarian name from getting like taken over by these like freaks. So yeah.
>> Yeah. Right on brother. That's cool.
Thank you for having me on.
>> Oh no problem. Let's do these super chats really quick and then we'll get you out of here. So, two from Claudia Johnston. So, Claudia Johnston's one of my best members. Um, thank you so much for your commitment. 10 Liberty Vault memberships. That's serious. Plus a $50 super chat. Jeremy, you just must smell extra great tonight. Holy crap, man.
Holy crap. You smell good. It's your must.
>> Thank you.
>> Um, we have one from from Sam Baker.
Samantha Baker. She is our vice chair.
She says, "Bill Red Path is the Kirk Cousins of ballot access." Any any response to that, Jeremy?
>> See, this is where I've learned I There's all the stuff I'm learn like I I'm not uh paying attention to all of like Nashville. I just We're doing a thing in New Hampshire. I've learned Yeah. that this guy, Bill Red Path, I guess, like funneled money to himself or something. I don't know the whole story here, though, so I actually don't want to I don't want to misstate.
>> I can I can clarify. Yeah, >> I can clarify. Man, I'm on good terms with Bill. Actually, I consider him a friend. We agree on nothing intri partywise, but he's always been kind to me, cordial, and complimentary to me. In fact, after I've done speeches at affiliates. So, he is kind of a ballot access expert, and he's been deployed by the national party at times, sometimes while a member of the LNC to collect signatures at a specific rate per signature. He's really good at it. But this is something that was raised when you people were saying stuff like, "Hey, Angela invited her love interest to be a staffer and this breaks tradition." And in it doesn't really in terms of that respect. So that that's the thing. I don't know. I don't think that there's any foundation for necessarily corruption, but he was being paid while on the LNC. Does that make sense?
>> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Then I wanna I take back anything I said about him. I I think there was I I saw something and so Amanda's mapping the name of something else about um some sort of like you know failed lawsuit or something related to this.
>> I I could be not privy to that aspect too. So I don't want to say like I'm the definitive word >> that I have no opinion about Bill. I mean I guess if he's out there helping the Libertarian party I mean good good for Bill. Bill we need you in New Hampshire I guess. I don't know. Maybe you know. So >> right on. Well, just Jeremy, just to round this out, I'll say like I'll give my pitch for New Hampshire right now in addition to everything we've already said. Great people. And Walter White went there to escape the DEA. So, that's good enough for me. If you need to get your your hands clean from all that dirty work, head up to New Hampshire.
Live free or die, right Jeremy? Is that what you guys say?
>> Live live or die. And we got to bring it to the next generation, right? You know, this is the other thing that has been keeping me up at night, you know, is like our culture is so weird and it's drifted to all these crazy places, you know, and like normal things like having a family, you know, uh and uh is is happening less and less and all this stuff. And it's just like I get worried, you know, like I want I I I like these um you know, I like these ideas. I like the idea of liberty. I like the idea of, you know, self-sufficiency and humans, you know, um, taking care of themselves and coming together and innovating and and and building things, you know, and I don't like the idea of us like drifting into, you know, lazy sachs who like watch Tik Tok all day and like get all of our food door dashed and like, you know, this this direction that that that some of the broader culture, you know, >> I find myself fitting into both categories. This sucks.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not. No, dude. You know, do you think I've never used Door Dash? Like, I'm not I'm not I'm not uh I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to throw a stone from a glass house here or, you know, say I'm free from sin. Uh but like but this is why, you know, but this is why I I you know, I care like there there's I care about like the future of our uh you know, culture uh beyond this generation because liberty is it's not just political and this is again this is part of the difference. It's not just political. Nothing's ever just political. Like the world you live in matters. the culture that you live in matters. I care about these things. This doesn't mean I want to use the government to enforce my culture, you know, but but I want I want I care about my culture. I want it to be a certain type of culture. And >> Amen, man.
>> I'm with you 100% on that, dude. Um, plug whatever you want to plug your Twitter, save LPNH, what, whatever you want to say to my audience that might want to look at that. We have over a thousand streamers right now. So, >> if you're listening this at long, then obviously you like LPNH. If you could toss us a couple of bucks, savelphnh.com would be really um you know, really appreciated. Uh any you know, any amount that you can give us is really appreciated. Uh you can follow me at X at my full name, Jeremy Kaufman. And if you want to uh since I imagine a lot, well, I guess a lot of the viewers are on X. So yeah, follow me on X, Jeremy Coffman. Follow free state party on X if you want to see some of the stuff that I'm working on. Uh it's more serious um you know, kinds of stuff right now. So it's not a bunch of [ __ ] posting. You're not going to get that, but you'll get um some serious content. uh and and some um some really interesting events that we're putting on and that's on YouTube as well if you want to see some of the videos that we've put out so far.
>> All right, thanks brother. I really appreciate your time. We'll have you on in the future if you want to come on.
It's just an honor to have you. Your account's blown up on Twitter. A lot of it was because of the best FBI confrontation video that's ever existed.
That's a teaser. Go check out Jeremy's page. I don't know if he has that pin, but that's the moment I think that opened the floodgates for you. That went viral and it got you on like freaking Dr. Drew and such. So, um, yeah, we really appreciate you, man. Um, take care and good luck in your battle in New Hampshire, bringing liberty to the masses, hopefully, but not the entire world. Maybe your corner of the universe first, right?
>> Cheers, Dave. Have a good night. Good night, everyone.
>> Cheers, guys. Take care.
>> Thanks for watching Liberty Vault with Dave Benner. Be sure to like and subscribe to help fight the mockingb bird algorithm. Click the notification bell so you never miss an episode. And until next time, no more war, no more debt, no more inflation, and no more empire.
Related Videos
US-Iran War LIVE: US Launches New Strikes On Iranian Military Site Near Bandar Abbas | WION Live
WION
6K views•2026-05-28
Guess Which Country Trump Is Threatening To Bomb Next! w/ Chris Hedges
thejimmydoreshow
5K views•2026-05-30
TRUMP LIVE | POTUS makes massive announcement on Iran nuke deal in high-stakes cabinet meeting
TheEconomicTimes
536 views•2026-05-28
The Silence Around Alex Coughlan | #80
RealEddieHobbs
2K views•2026-05-28
Did China Get to Marco Rubio?
ChinaUnscripted
1K views•2026-05-28
Sonko Is Now Speaker. But Who Are the Two Men Who Made His Return Possible?
djbwakali
11K views•2026-05-28
Why Was There No Mention of Israel or Gaza in The DNC's Autopsy Report
wearefindout
227 views•2026-05-29
Trump Just Got HUMILIATED... And It's Going VIRAL
harryjsisson
46K views•2026-05-29
