Mehdi Hasan EXPOSES Piers Morgan’s Trump Defense LIVE On Air!

追加: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]You can't ignore history. You can't just pretend Obama didn't ban Muslims from coming into the US. He did not say Islam hates us. Uh he did not say that to he did not tell Muslim members of Congress to go back to where they came from. I remember when you came on my show, Pierce, and I read out the quote to you where he told the four members of the squad to go back to the countries they came from. And you would not call it a racist state.

[00:00:21]>> You ever watch a debate and within the first few minutes realize one person came prepared and the other showed up hoping confidence alone would carry the argument? Well, that's exactly what happened here. Because what you're about to see is a clash that goes far beyond just another political disagreement.

[00:00:37]This conversation dives head first into one of the most heated issues in modern American politics. Immigration, power, political rhetoric, and the uncomfortable question many people are increasingly asking. What direction is the United States actually heading in?

[00:00:52]And at the center of this debate, a fiery back and forth between broadcaster Piers Morgan and journalist Mei Hassan.

[00:00:59]A man who, whether you agree with him or not, has built a reputation for coming armed with facts, receipts, and absolutely no hesitation when it comes to challenging powerful narratives. Now, let's be honest for a second.

[00:01:12]Conversations around Donald Trump are rarely calm, balanced, or straightforward. The moment his name enters the discussion, everything becomes politically explosive.

[00:01:21]Supporters see strength, critics see danger. And somewhere in the middle, the rest of the country is left trying to figure out what's exaggeration, what's reality, and what the long-term consequences might actually be. But this particular exchange, it hits differently. Because this isn't just about Donald Trump's immigration policies. It's about the language surrounding those policies. It's about the rise of increasingly extreme rhetoric in mainstream politics. And perhaps most importantly, it's about whether certain ideas that once stayed on the fringes are now becoming normalized in public discourse. And trust me, Meti Hassan does not hold back. Before we dive into the full story, comment where you're watching from and don't forget to like and subscribe so you don't miss the next one. All right, let's get into it because what starts as a debate over political labels very quickly turns into something much bigger. And honestly, some of the exchanges you're about to hear are difficult to ignore. I mean, there's a there's a difference between being far right and a fascist. Do you you accept that?

[00:02:21]>> I mean, unfortunately, right now, it's all very gray in the United States.

[00:02:25]>> But it but that I would say that's part of the problem is that because in the last few years, everyone has casually tossed around phrases like fascist, Nazi, etc., etc. It kind of diminishes the reality when you see it, when they clearly are. Like if you see an actual Nazi and you remember what the Nazis did or you remember what the fascist did um you know actual fascist doing actual fascist stuff on a a mass scale. My my you know the reason I've always quibbled with you using that word for Trump for example is that I just think it trivializes what actual fascism really is. When I saw these kids though, what I'm seeing is a complete breakdown in any historical knowledge. To brazenly admit, I am a fascist. Never mind the open racism you had to put up, which was obviously contemptable, but to just casually admit in a sort of cheery way, I'm a fascist. It just said to me they don't understand what that means.

[00:03:29]>> Maybe I mean, or that they do understand what it means and they like it. And this is the slight problem. All of the polling shows, peers, that the Republican base has become more authoritarian over the last 5 10 years, has become more open to strong man rule, do call Donald Trump daddy because they like the idea of a strong leader, have told pollsters time and again that they're happy for Trump to ignore court rulings and ignore Congress and take more power for himself, which he's done, by the way. He has defied court orders, has defied the Supreme Court. And I look, we can argue back and forth about the word fascist, just like you on Gazi, you and I have argued about the word genocide. What we can't argue about, and surely what you cannot deny is that America right now is going through an authoritarian moment. Most political scientists and scholars of democracy are saying American democracy is in decline, is going backwards, is regressing. Uh we are seeing a much more authoritarian approach to government. The Republican party is enabling Donald Trump's worst excesses. Again, call them whatever you want, authoritarian, illiberal, fascist, and these kids, quote unquote, they're all adults, but yes, young Americans sitting in that warehouse with me. I don't think they're just ignorant. I actually do think they're taking their cues from the top. Uh they are saying this stuff because Donald Trump has emboldened them. These views, peers, as you well know, you lived in the United States. These views have been around for decades, but they were said in private.

[00:04:48]They were said in people's homes. They were said on some weird internet message board. They've become emboldened to say this stuff out loud because the leader of the country says similar stuff out loud. When they say to me, "I'm not a real American. I should be deported, denaturalized." I mean, Donald Trump peers is openly saying that Zoran Mandani, the Muslim American citizen candidate for mayor of New York. Uh, is maybe he illegally maybe we have to investigate his citizenship based on nothing. They sat at the RNC and held up placards saying mass deportations. Now, they didn't just mean quote unquote illegal immigrants because that's become very clear.

[00:05:19]>> No, but you know what's interesting is that I interviewed I interviewed Joy Reid the other day, right, who was obviously at MSNBC for a long time, and she started ranting away about Trump and the deportation uh stuff that's going on. I just I just said to her, "Okay, how many how many people did Obama deport?"

[00:05:35]>> Okay, no, no, you know, it's one of my favorite questions. But what was striking was not just that she had no idea, which she admitted. She never bothered to find out even though people like me had been telling everyone the number for a long time to expose actually I'd think a liberal double standard on this. But secondly, she said I don't care. She didn't care how many people Obama had deported even though he's the by far pro rasa the biggest deorter of people in American presidential history. So you know my question for you about this would be okay um I I don't happen to think Trump has been that authoritarian. I think he pushes the courts as hard as he can. But then but then he reign well then he reigns back court the people the people that have been deported where there was a big blow up and contention about it.

[00:06:21]They've come back and they're facing due process. That's not what an authoritarian does. Um he's cleaned up.

[00:06:28]This is not true.

[00:06:29]>> Well on the southern border for example, I presume you would praise Trump for stemming the number of people coming illegally there or or would you not?

[00:06:38]No, I don't praise somebody who tortures people in detention centers, and I don't think you should either. And you said a lot of things that weren't true. Uh, with regard to Jo is a good friend of mine. I believe that what she meant, I'll tell you in a second. Let me just deal with Joy Reed. Uh, I believe that Joy was talking about not caring because it's not relevant. I mean, Joy can speak for herself, but that's my interpretation of what she said. It's not relevant. Obama, first of all, and you tried to scotch on me. I've written pieces in the Guardian attacking Obama's deportation uh record. It was a very bad record. And I've been critical of Joe Biden's immigration record. I was on MSNBC attacking Joe Biden's immigration record for being too Republicanesque.

[00:07:15]But that is not relevant to right now because when we're talking about deportation, we're not just talking about numbers at the southern border.

[00:07:19]We're talking about what ICE is doing in what's called the interior of America in LA on the streets of New York. Grabbing people off the streets, masked agents with no badges, no IDs, unmarked cars, grabbing American citizens doing racial profiling of Latino gardeners or customers at Home Depot, putting them in detention, disappearing them like fascist countries do. When American citizens, veterans, a disabled veteran in LA just disappeared off the street for three days. his family don't know where he is. That is pinish Chile style.

[00:07:49]Do you agree? Same. But I'm saying that is reminiscent. No, hold on. Be you had a long thing about I just need to do with your point and you come back in. He has defied court orders. The Washington Post just did a study the other day of 160 lawsuits brought against him.

[00:08:00]They've defied one in three of those lawsuits. He hasn't given due process to people in El Salvador. People were tortured peers in El Salvador. Kil Margo Garcia talks about being sat on his knees all night long, being beaten, being deprived of food. Well, actually like I did. You oppose George Bush.

[00:08:17]It's not nonsense. People have What are you talking about? Congress members have gone to alligator Alcatraz in Florida and talked about 35 people to a room drinking water out of the toilets that they have to do a number two in. You oppose the Iraq war. I assume you oppose Guantanamo and Abu Grae at the time. I don't quite remember. But this is torture. This is what Trump is doing. And he's doing it to American citizens. He's doing it to America.

[00:08:39]Well, he's not giving due process to American citizen. He's chucked out American children out of this country process just earlier this year.

[00:08:45]>> Let me get a question in. Do you agree that undocumented immigrants in America who then commit a crime should be deported?

[00:08:57]>> Yes.

[00:08:58]>> Good. So then we got a bit of agreement on that. Do you agree that reducing the number of people coming over the southern border illegally from the many millions depending what you want to report you want to believe 8 to 12 million is reported to have come over in the Biden administration four years do you agree that reducing >> 8 to 12 million that's a bull that's a nonsense number two to four million >> how many >> I think it's about 2 to four millions what the experts I talked to say 2 to 4 million >> okay so millions do you accept that reducing that to just a few thousand a month is a good thing.

[00:09:33]>> Not if it ends the right to asylum, which is America's right under American law. Apologies under international law and American law. Donald Trump, no, hold on, hold on, be you can't just elied that. Donald Trump has ended the right to asylum effectively in this country.

[00:09:45]That is outrageous. It is illegal.

[00:09:48]Do you support ending the right to asylum? He has actually. He's ended the right to asylum.

[00:09:52]>> You can still claim asylum.

[00:09:54]>> No, that's not true, Pier.

[00:09:55]>> You can.

[00:09:55]>> That's not true. That is not true. In fact, ICE agents are picking up peers.

[00:10:00]No. In fact, not only can you not claim asylum at the southern border, you're being rejected, but people in the middle of asylum hearings in courtrooms in America on camera are being grabbed in the middle of their asylum hearings by ICE officers. Judges are calling this out, Pers. And I assume again, you support a right to asylum as a British citizen. The UK, the US, every developed country supports a right to asylum.

[00:10:22]Donald Trump has ended that. And by the way, Steven Miller is openly opposed to that. There's no point defending people who don't want you anybody. They're openly opposed to this.

[00:10:29]>> I'm about to tell you that I think that the Well, I think the fact that we've >> Trump's record at the border, I think Trump's horrific record.

[00:10:37]>> I think if Trump had stuck to deporting people who committed crimes when they're undocumented in United States, that would have had widespread approval. I do not like >> Yeah. I do not like this chilling sense of fear that everyone undocumented in America currently has because of the extraordinary work they do for the US economy. Never mind anything else. Never mind the humanity.

[00:10:57]>> Not just undocumented peers. What about the legal? Hold on. Not just undocumented. What about legal immigrants? He's detained green card holders. He's going after American.

[00:11:05]They've set up a committee.

[00:11:06]>> I don't think he's right.

[00:11:07]>> So, okay. You don't think it's right? Do you do you think it's authoritarian? Do you think do you not worried about the direction of travel in the US where twothirds of Republicans basically identify as authoritarian where a majority of Republicans tell pollsters we think Trump shouldn't follow the courts or Congress. I think of course he should well of course he should follow courts but I think that in relation to the immigration issue that the vast majority of Americans I've seen interviewed right doesn't necessarily mean that is the majority of the country but most people think if you're in the country illegally that isn't something to be applauded I know that when I wanted to go to America and get a home there which I have and work in America I had to go through a laborious quite painstaking quite expensive process of getting a visa for example, right?

[00:11:55]That is the normal way people operate in other countries. So that is how a lot of people do it. They do it the legal way.

[00:12:02]We have the same issue in the United Kingdom with people coming over on boats from France in the tens of thousands, right? It it it is annoying to those who do things the right way. So I understand that, but I also understand you cannot just deport every undocumented person in America. It would create complete mayhem. It would wreck the economy. It's unworkable and it's also intrinsic intrinsically unfair. If a if someone's been there for a few years, has family born in the United States, is working and paying taxes and contributing to the economy, I think it's not right that those people should be picked up and thrown out right now. So, there are lots of complexities to this and I agree with a lot of it probably along with you. I just don't think that you can ignore as Joy Reed wanted to what Obama did for eight years as a Democrat president and AS A BLACK PIER, COME ON. PIER, I I GET I get that you need to do this both sides stick for your show, but Obama is not Obama DID NOT DEFY BOTH SIDES.

[00:13:00]>> WELL, OKAY, point to me.

[00:13:01]>> Well, Pier, point to me then. I'll give you as long I've got to go, soup, but I'll give you as long as you want before I go. When did Obama defy the Supreme Court on on immigration? He didn't. When did he defy lower court judges? He didn't. Joe Biden didn't either. So, we're talking about the courts here, right? Judges, Trump appointed judges, peers. A Trumpappointed judge said earlier this year that an American child was expelled, deported from this country, even though you can't legally deport an American citizen, but was kidnapped and taken out of this country without meaningful process. That is the words of a Trump appointed judge. You cannot find an equivalent for Barack Obama. And I hold no I carry no water for Obama on immigration. One thing I got to say on undocumented folks, some of these people, not just here a few years, they picked up an Iranian woman, a grandmother in her front yard gardening who'd been here since 1979.

[00:13:43]She came as a child. Her family claimed asylum after the Iranian revolution.

[00:13:46]They picked up and detained her. This is insane. And by the way, the polls show Pers that Americans do want deportations, but when they're asked in when they're asked more detailed questions, do you support people who've been here for many years? Do you support people who have committed no crimes? Do you support deporting people who want a pathway to citizenship? They don't support deporting those people. They support, like you and I do, deporting violent criminals, which Biden was doing, Trump did, Obama did. Everyone agrees on that. what he's doing right now and what Steven Miller is doing.

[00:14:13]Pier, just so your viewers know, Stephen Miller went to ICE and said, "You better round up 3,000 people a day." He's given them an arbitrary number. And ICE people are saying, "We can't do this. It's not possible." He said, "Just go to 7-Eleven, go to Home Depot, and just round people up. They're doing racial profiling peers. They're just grabbing brown people, Latino folks off the streets who are American citizens, and they're saying very clearly why they want to do this, right? They they they want to make when they say they want to make America great again, it's because they want to go back to a whiter America, a less browner America. That is that is Steven Miller's vision. That is you get Steven Miller said that and ask him.

[00:14:44]>> They've not said that.

[00:14:48]>> They've not said that, have they?

[00:14:49]>> Steven Miller is a white nationalist.

[00:14:51]Steven Miller is a white nationalist who spent a career enabling and promoting white nationalism. It's all on the record.

[00:14:56]>> But there is no evidence Donald Trump wants to keep people in because of their skin color or throw them out because of their skin color.

[00:15:02]>> Actually, actually, actually, there's a lot of reporting from the first term where he says, "Why can't we have more people from Sweden, less people from hole countries?" So I I pretty sure I know what he was talking about when he was talking about Swedish folks.

[00:15:12]>> Well, he talking about the seven countries which Obama banned people from coming in from because of their terror record. Was he >> he didn't ban he didn't ban entire peoples from coming in?

[00:15:23]>> Actually agree with that was the fast when Trump when Trump did it. The left all went nuts and it turned out exactly the same.

[00:15:30]>> He didn't ban everyone from coming in.

[00:15:32]>> By by the way by the way Donald Trump in December 2015 said we need to ban every Muslim coming into the United States. Do you support that? Islamophobic racist position.

[00:15:40]>> He said, if I remember accurately what he said, it was after an appalling terror attack where I think over 50 people got murdered. And he said, we're gonna have a short-term suspension on people coming in from the same countries that Obama had done this to.

[00:15:55]>> No, he didn't. Every Muslim figure will be not not true.

[00:16:01]>> People can Google it right now. You're wrong and I'm right as ever. He said all Muslims will be banned for coming into United States. He'd say about seven countries. That's what it became when he came into office. But he said he wanted to ban all Muslims from coming in.

[00:16:11]Surely you disagree with that.

[00:16:12]>> No, Medi, in the end, he he I always say with Trump, act on what he does, not what comes out of his mouth. Right. You don't like that >> and I've been telling you I've got to run, but I've been telling you for the last 20 minutes what he's been doing and you partly agreed with me. But now at the end because you got to do the both side stuff. You got to defend.

[00:16:29]>> How many countries you don't agree with picking up Latinos outside of Home Depot? Because you don't agree. You don't agree with picking people up outside Home Depot. How many Muslim countries in the end did Trump ban people coming in from?

[00:16:41]>> I think five if memory says we >> think it was seven. The same the same seven Obama had done. That's my point.

[00:16:46]You can't ignore history. You can't just pretend Obama didn't do exactly the same ban Muslims from coming into the US. He did not say Islam hates us. Uh he did not say that to he did not tell Muslim members of Congress to go back to where they came from. I remember when you came on my show, Pier, and I read out the quote to you where he told the four members of the squad to go back to the countries they came from. And you would not call it a racist statement, but it was a racist statement. You know it and I know it. And everyone watching knows it.

[00:17:11]>> And everything they said to me on Jubilee, by the way, is stuff that Trump has said or a version of.

[00:17:17]>> It's not. It's it's I I >> All right, I'm going to pause it there because honestly, I think the bigger point has already been made. And this is where for me personally, Piers Morgan completely loses the plot because notice what kept happening throughout this entire exchange. Every single time Miy Hassan brought up a direct criticism of Donald Trump, whether it was immigration policy, rhetoric, or concerns about authoritarian behavior, peers immediately pivoted back to Barack Obama. And look, criticism of Obama is completely fair. No politician should be above scrutiny. But at some point, you have to actually address the argument in front of you instead of constantly reaching for a political comparison to avoid the uncomfortable questions.

[00:17:59]That's what made this debate so interesting. Whether you agree with Medi Hassan or not, one thing he consistently does is come prepared. He brings facts, examples, and receipts. You may not like his style. You may find him aggressive, but nine times out of 10, he knows the details of the argument he's making, and that's showed here. Now, on the bigger question, Mahi raises, whether Trump's rhetoric has emboldened more extreme political views, that's obviously something people will debate. But it's also fair to acknowledge why the conversation exists in the first place.

[00:18:30]Political language matters. Leadership matters. And when political messaging becomes heavily centered around fear, division, and an us versus them mindset, people naturally begin asking what kind of political culture that creates.

[00:18:43]That's why debates like this matter because they're not just about personalities. They're about where politics is heading and what kind of society people actually want to build.

[00:18:53]Now, I want to hear from you guys. Who do you think made the stronger case in this debate? Was Mie Hassan exposing uncomfortable truths? Or do you think Piers Morgan raised fair push back that deserves more consideration? Let me know your thoughts down in the comments section below. And if you enjoyed the video, don't forget to hit that subscribe button, give this video a thumbs up, and I'll catch you guys in the next