Drawn to Combat: The Art of Bill Mauldin Opening Reception

[00:00:00]Good evening. Uh, I'm Pete Crane, vice president of education and access here at the National World War II Museum, and it's truly an honor to welcome you all here tonight for the opening of our latest exhibition, Drawn to Combat: Bill Malden and the Art of War.

[00:00:19]Bill Malden and the Art of War. There we go.

[00:00:27]As we begin uh the program about the life and work of a World War II veteran, Bill Malden, a man who brought to life characters celebrating those who fought and died in the war. Let's start by recognizing World War II veterans. So, if we have any World War II veterans, homeront workers, or Holocaust survivors with us here tonight, either stand or wave to be recognized. I'm not sure if we have any with us tonight, but I know we have some with us online. So, let's show them our appreciation.

[00:01:08]Now, I'd also like to recognize other veterans, active duty military personnel or military family members with us tonight. Uh their dedication to service to our nation and the legacy of those who came before them uh really uh stands out and we'd like to recognize that. So if you ever wore the uniform of our country or support directly supported a family member who did, please stand and be recognized.

[00:01:45]Here at the National World War II Museum, we're incredibly fortunate to have a dedicated community of supporters who help bring our mission to life. This evening, we're pleased to welcome members of our Patriot Circle uh and our charter members. Your generosity fuels our educational programs and exhibits, ensuring that stories like those of Bill Malden are preserved and shared for generations to come. So, thank you to our Patriot Circle and our um and our charter members for being here tonight and for your unwavering support. So, thank you.

[00:02:25]So tonight we officially open Drawn to Combat, Bill Molton and the Art of War.

[00:02:30]And we'd like to extend our sincere thanks to the Pritsker Military Museum and Library where this exhibition originated. We'd like to thank them for their partnership and collaboration in bringing this remarkable exhibit to the National World War II Museum. We'd also like to recognize Dustin Dew, director of museum collections at the Pritsker Military Museum and Library, whose expertise, generosity, and dedication helped share these important stories and perspectives with our community. We're especially grateful for his presence with us today and for the continued partnership of the Pritsker team. So, thank you.

[00:03:14]And finally, we gratefully acknowledge the generous support of the ex the exhibition sponsors, the Lois and Lloyd Hawkins Jr. Foundation, Mr. and Mrs. Scotty Scott Petty Jr., and Joseph and Deborah Ruchcci.

[00:03:29]Their commitment has helped make this exhibition possible. So, thank you to our sponsors.

[00:03:41]So, I have to admit this is a special night uh and opening for me personally.

[00:03:47]I've been a big fan of Bill Malden's most famous characters, Willie and Joe, for decades.

[00:03:55]As a soldier myself, I empathized with their endurance and miserable conditions.

[00:04:01]Shared what's often called GI humor. If you need an explanation of that later, ask a GI.

[00:04:08]And as a commissioned officer myself, uncomfortably I've resembled the target of much of their jokes.

[00:04:15]My my team didn't know that tonight is a showand tell moment. And yes, I'm going off script, Maggie. Uh, this is an original copy of Bill Malden's book, This Damn Tree Leaks, that was printed by the Stars and Stripes in Italy in 1945.

[00:04:34]It's been on my shelf for more than 25 years, and as a battalion commander, I used to use some of the cartoons in this book uh in welcome briefings to my new soldiers. It just goes to show the enduring legacy that Bill Malden's work and how his humor still resonates with soldiers today, many years after World War II ended. This exhibit highlights Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist Malden's active role documenting and satarizing both foreign and domestic military and political uh affairs throughout his entire career. As a nationally syndicated political cartoonist for more than 50 years, Malden covered a wide range of subjects from the civil rights movement to sports, but he's best known for his military themed work, beginning with his beloved World War II characters, my friends Willie and Joe. From his early years as an aspiring artist through his service during the war, Bill Malden developed firsthand understanding of soldiers experiences, the realities of military life under the most trying of circumstances, and the often ry and dark humor that carried those soldiers through. In just a few moments, we're going to hear from panelists who will discuss the exhibit as well as the life of Bill Malden. Uh the National World War II Museum curator Chase Tomlin, Nat Malden, son of Bill Malden, and Todd Depastino, a Malden historian.

[00:06:10]Uh but before I introduce them, I would also like to mark another transition for us and uh recognize someone special here who is getting ready to leave our team tonight. We have uh we wish Erin Clancy the AVP of collections and exhibits here at the National World War II Museum and thank her for her nine years of service to this museum. So thanks to Aaron.

[00:06:44]So let's introduce the folks you came here to you came here to hear. Chase Tomlin earned both his bachelor's and master's degree in history from Southeastern Louisiana University before pursuing a doc doctoral studies at Louisiana State University. He's worked at the center of southeast Louisiana studies, the Louisiana State Archives, and LSU both as a teaching assistant and an instructor. Today, Chase serves as curator at the National World War II Museum, where he led the coordination of the museum's presentation of this exhibition.

[00:07:20]Nat Malden is the son of legendary cartoonist Bill Malden and a writer's guild of America awardwinning comedy writer. His feature film credits include Dr. Doolittle, The Preachers's Wife, The In-Laws, Downtown, and Open Season.

[00:07:38]In television, he's worked as a story editor and producer on series including Nightcourt, Barney Miller, New Hart, It Takes Two, Capital Critters, and Have Faith, which he also created. He lives in California, his wife, three dogs, and one feral cat.

[00:08:00]Todd Deep Pastino is the founder and executive director of the Veterans Breakfast Club, a nonprofit organization that brings veterans together to share their stories with one another and the public. He holds a PhD in American history from Yale University and is the award-winning author of Bill Malden, a life upfront, the definitive biography of Bill Malden, as well as several other books in military history, American history. So, please joining me in welcoming Chase, Nat, and Todd.

[00:08:33][applause] [applause] >> Mic check. One, two. Everyone can hear me. Okay, great.

[00:09:00]Thank you, Pete, for that wonderful introduction. It is I'm I'm really thrilled to see such a marvelous turnout for this exhibit opening. So, welcome all of you to the National World War II Museum, and thank you for being here for this special exhibit opening of Drawn to Combat, Bill Malden, in the Art of War.

[00:09:17]Before we hop into our program, I do just want to take a quick second and also express my thanks to our sponsors that make the exhibit possible and programs like tonight's possible as well as to the Pritsker Museum and uh military museum and library uh for all of their hard work. Their effort to promote and preserve the legacy of Bill Malden makes it possible for museums like ours to bring these stories to new audiences.

[00:09:45]And finally to the staff at the World War II Museum. It takes a lot of people to make special exhibits like this successful and that includes everyone from the top down that facilities marcoms our media center education and access um everyone across the museum does a lot of hard work to make these things great. And I do want to give a special thanks to our collections and exhibits team here at the museum. Our team embraced an opportunity to take what was already an outstanding exhibit and build upon it to have some creative design elements, some immersive environmental features that allow visitors to step into Malden's work and experience it in new and unexpected ways. And I am especially grateful to our director of exhibits, Tom Schirtz, who is standing right over there in that stellar suit.

[00:10:37]His Don't shake your head. No. His vision and leadership really guided this project from start to finish. He did insist that I tell you all though that he gets by with a little help from his friends. And Tom has many friends. Um, just on his exhibits team, Corey, David, D, Corey, David, Davis, Dennis, and Mo.

[00:10:59]Say that five times fast. Um, thank you for all of your hard work. To the people on our collections team, Tony, Aaron, Rehea, and Laura. Thank you for facilitating this exhibit, for your keen eyes and care and installing the artifacts, for all of the scans that helped with our murals. Thank you. And to our curatorial team, Kimberly Guys, Corey Graph, Terry Arman, thank you for all of your help with the content. And I also want to give my thanks to Aaron Clancy for all of your support and encouragement. So, thank you. Now, on a more personal note, like Pete, this exhibit means a great deal to me. I don't have anything for show and tell for show and tell. But when I started here five years ago, my mentor and longtime friend Charles Elliott gifted me a first edition Bill Malden Upfront.

[00:11:47]To this day, it's probably the most meaningful book on my bookshelf. And not not just because of what it means to me professionally and personally, but because it's just a good book. Bill Malden was truly exceptional. He wasn't just an incredible artist. He was an excellent writer. He was articulate. He was observant and he was witty. So, it makes for an excellent read. U I just read it again just the other day. Now, I would like to turn the attention to who you all probably here to see, our invited guest, uh Nat Malden and Todd Deastino. We're honored to have you both here. I'm excited to hear your your two very different perspectives. one from knowing the man behind the cartoons for a lifetime. The other for dedicating so much time to studying, researching, and writing about the man. I got to tour the exhibit with these two guys earlier, and I guarantee you're all in for a treat.

[00:12:40]So, I think the hour of our interrogation has begun. You guys ready?

[00:12:45]>> I'm ready.

[00:12:46]>> Todd, I I I think we'll start with you.

[00:12:48]I I find biographers to be incredibly fascinating people. I thought about being myself one day. Um, I'm curious what first got you interested in Maldin?

[00:13:01]What motivated you to dedicate as much time and effort as you did to learning about him and writing about him?

[00:13:07]>> Uh, my wife's uncle, World War II veteran, uh, uh, Ay, he told me he was in the in an armored unit in World War II. And um I was working on a book about homelessness and I mentioned about how hobos disappeared in World War II. And he said, "Hobos didn't disappear. They got drafted.

[00:13:31]They served in the army." And he said, "I served with them." And and he said, "Have you ever seen Bill Malden's Willie and Joe? They're like two hobos who are, you know, in the army." And that's kind of what prompted me to pick up that book upfront. You have a first edition copy.

[00:13:50]You have a first edition copy. It's I highly encourage if you've never read it before, sit down with it. It's an easy read. 32,000 words, 162 cartoons. It goes fast, but it's filled with a lot of wisdom and a lot of knowledge about the life up front, the life in the infantry in World War II.

[00:14:13]It's one of those books where you kind of read it and then you finish it and you realize there's a lot more to it than you first appreciate it in the first read. I read it in one sitting and immediately began to read it again. And I think I read it again because I didn't really understand it the first reading and I think a lot of readers go through that experience. There's a lot there to it.

[00:14:34]>> I thought I was pretty well verssed in Malden. When you know how many cartoons are in the entire book and the word count, that is pretty impressive. I'm telling you, this guy knows everything there is to know about Bill Malden.

[00:14:44]>> Far more than us. Far more >> far more than his kids. I mean, that's >> all the Maldans put together is like Todd is like this. Hello. Oh, okay.

[00:14:54]>> Was there anything that shocked you when you were doing all of your research?

[00:14:57]>> Um, what shocked me was how bad of a father he was. Uh, and I want to throw this to Nat a little bit. And I and I'm I'm kind of mean that. You know, when you're a biographer, biographers are def they're definitely weird because you step into the personality and the character of somebody for years as you work as you try to get to know them, try to c crack the code of their personality. You dream about them. You think about them. You know, my two young daughters knew Bill Malden better than they knew members of my family. And um and so when you finally decide that you're going to write this biography, you contact the family. And there could not have been a better family to support a biography than the Malden family. I mean, I I didn't contact you at first. I contacted your brother, uh David, >> right?

[00:15:45]>> And I I asked I sent him a letter, told him what I was working on, then followed up with a phone call. And David said, "Oh gosh, yeah. We'd love to have somebody who recognized dad's genius as an artist and and um uh understood that his work, especially during World War II, is, you know, this this masterpiece in popular 20th century art. And then he paused and said, "But I hope you show kind of what a bastard he was also."

[00:16:13]And I think, you know, that is really the perfect kind of expression of support that you want from a family. In other words, what he was saying was, "We would like you to write an honest biography, a warts and all biography."

[00:16:27]And from beginning to end, the family has been supportive of the work. Uh, never flinched in kind of, uh, getting news about what, you know, some of the history that maybe they didn't know about. And then they shared history that, uh, that I certainly didn't know about. It's just been a a wonderful and continues to be a wonderful collaboration with you and your family, Nat. Um uh we're the as a teenager especially I had a really difficult time with that and I remember vividly talking so many people about it especially my wife reading your book reading especially the part where he transitions from coming back from the war and all the stuff that he went through in the late 40s and the early it so it really helped me understand so much more about uh how he related to us.

[00:17:20]And I mean it was it was it was really really therapeutic for I think not just for me but for all the brothers. So it meant a lot. It really did. Um uh yeah it was it was not normal. He was not a normal. We did not it was not father knows best. We did not live in that kind of house. There's no doubt about that.

[00:17:40]But but we had uh we had a good time. We had a great with with when you were his you were in a very special club when you were I have a story the perfect story to explain all the stuff that made up for the fact that he you know half the time he wasn't there he was always traveling he was very diff you know he didn't show up at you know soccer games all the rest of that but you were in a really special when when we were little kids we used to spend Christmases in Santa Fe and my grandmother my mother's mother drove him crazy. He just But but we would go over on Christmas morning and my grandmother had this ranch and she had all of these Florentine statues around and from the time I was like seven or eight years old, I remembered this so vividly. He would when when Gany was not in the room, he would go to my mother's purse and take out lipstick and he would paint nipples on all the statues.

[00:18:38]And and you have to you have to know you have to know as an 8-year-old, you're watching this and you're going like this and and it went on for years and she never found out who did this and and and and it was always dad doing this painting nipples on statues and looking at you and you looking back and that thing that you shared with him. It was being in that club. That's just one of the moments. So yeah, I I he was he was a terrible father and a great father at the same time. At the same time, >> I would not trade those moments for anything in the world.

[00:19:15]>> And he had an impish sense of humor. He really did. And and an earthy sense of humor. He had uh he had three wives and three sets of kids with, you know, a set of kids with each one.

[00:19:25]>> I'm boy for litter 2, by the way.

[00:19:27]>> That's what I was getting at.

[00:19:28]>> That's that's my >> boy four litter 2. That's how he referred to his kids.

[00:19:32]>> Yes.

[00:19:35]as like these guys can read my mind. I was going to ask you if there was anything that you have learned through others such as Todd about your dad that you didn't know.

[00:19:45]>> Yeah. Yeah. Every other page in this book there was something I didn't know.

[00:19:49]I'm serious. Yeah. No, we this was really a thing for us. And I think I'm just, you know, just not not to interrupt Matt, but ju, you know, Bill downplayed his the trauma that he experienced during the war. He downplayed it as so many veterans do because any veteran who has been in a war zone who comes back knows somebody who didn't come back.

[00:20:15]>> Yep.

[00:20:15]>> Or who had it worse. And so there's a a kind of a shame involved in talking about well you know I I mean Bill was a rear echelon inkslinger. That's what he called himself a rear echelon inkslinger. But what it meant was how he worked was he would go to the front and he would spend days or even a week and a half at the front on the front lines, you know, in the foxholes and uh kind of just taking in life there and then he would return to the rear and work for two weeks for a set of cartoons based on what he had just seen. And then he would go back and it was extremely dangerous and extremely traumatic. And it wasn't just the danger, I think, that traumatized Bill. It was also the fact that he would go to visit his old company, his old regiment, his 180th Infantry Regiment, and he'd go and he'd see guys that he knew for a long time, and they didn't recognize him because they were near close to a psychotic break. You know, they had been on the front lines for six weeks, and there was no relief for them. and Bill then would visit again and they'd be gone either killed or wounded and replaced with a whole new set. Uh, one of his comrades on the one of Bill's friends on the Stars and Stripes told me that going to the front lines was like going to the death row. These guys could never leave and they would never leave unless they were being carried out. But Bill got to leave. He got to leave and he carried that guilt >> absolutely the rest of his life. and never was able to kind of overcome it or let go of it.

[00:21:56]>> That's what I that's what I mean when I told you about transitioning from the war stuff into just working at the Post Dispatch and the Sun Times as an editorial cartoonist. I think the stuff that he built there I think he was eager to put all of this stuff behind him. It was very very tough >> and it and it was um >> he never ever talked about the war with me ever.

[00:22:16]>> Never talked about the war.

[00:22:17]>> Never talked about the war >> ever. There goes like two or three questions that I was thinking later.

[00:22:22]Yeah. He never he never there was a moment that I the the I think I told in Tucson in like 96 or 97 and he knew there was a project that I was working on um uh with Stephen Spielberg and it never amounted to anything but we had spent a few you know some meetings and some stuff and and he and and he had read about it and he and he said he said so you know this Spielberg guy and I said that you know I mean I I I and and and he the I believe that Saving Private Ryan at this point was like four or five years old and and he said I said yeah you know I mean I a few times I'd met with him and he said well I want you to tell him something and then he paused and and you could tell and this is very that you he was fighting his emotions and that was like you know he said you tell him that he got it >> got Right.

[00:23:22]>> And because there's a segment for the >> probably a lot of you have there's a 20 minute segment with no dialogue with just camera work in the beginning of the invasion, the D-Day invasion, which is some of the most riveting film I've ever seen in my life, the editing, everything. And that moment was, you know, the every every war film that ever, you know, The Longest Day, all this stuff, dad always said was just he, [snorts] you know, but he just said, "You you tell him he got it."

[00:23:52]>> And that, you know, that was a real moment for me that I'll never forget. So >> that is actually that's a remarkable point because I'm I'm thinking now that we're talking about it, it correct me if I'm wrong, Todd. I think Malden only drew one cartoon where American guns were actively firing at the enemy. And and as well, I don't think he ever drew any dead soldiers.

[00:24:15]>> No, no, no, no, no. He, you know, Malden, he pushed the very limit of what was acceptable to portray about the war in the American media. uh he went right up to the unwritten guidelines that the War Department had for, you know, media coverage of the war. He went right to the line and it's impossible for me to know and I wanted to know how did this 23-year-old kid know where that line was when the line did move during the war. In other words, uh at the beginning of the war, the War Department had a very restrictive policy of what you could portray or say about the war. I mean, essentially, you could you could report on the war if you said we were winning every battle and if the enemy was cutting and running and if morale was really high. Uh, but you couldn't show suffering. You couldn't show, you know, stalemate. Um, uh, you couldn't show blood and guts. And by 1943, when Malden landed in the Italian campaign in Italy, uh, the War Department liberalized its publicity policy. It [clears throat] allowed more grimmer images because they wanted to sober up the American people to get them used to the idea of a longer war and longer casualty lists.

[00:25:40]So you are allowed to show more and Malden kind of appears on the scene just when this publicity campaign is liberalized and that allowed him to do the work that he did. He was kind of the first person, you know, along with Ernie Pile kind of delivering some of the grimness of the life up front back home uh to to folks back home. And uh that's what made him so unforgettable, I think, to a whole generation of infantry veterans of World War II.

[00:26:10]>> Nat, you mentioned that he never talked to you about World War II. I'm I'm curious whether and we might have to to backtrack a little bit and talk about Willie and Joe a little bit. Did he ever talk about Willie and Joe?

[00:26:22]Not even about them.

[00:26:23]>> No, I I I the there was a Bill Molden's army was a you know 10 11 years old. I remember going through and I knew that he drew those things but I didn't it not ever something that he discussed and I didn't really talk to him about Willie.

[00:26:38]I worked on a with him in like n in the in the mid 80s, the late 80s on a on a we wanted to try to do a pilot and um there was an actor on a show called Hill Street Blues named Bruce Whites who did a I mean terrific character actor who wanted to play Willie and we we this this was the first time that I ever talked to him in great detail about these characters and I didn't know anything about Uh uh the 45th division was in Oklahoma and and it was comprised not a majority but it was had a huge indigenous population. Chakaws, Cherokees, and he wanted he he felt like Willie was there. He felt like Willie was at least part Native American made the more irassable of the two. he felt Joe was more tacitturn and he we started talking in great depth about and he I don't know how much he elaborated about these guys to anybody but we it was really really fun to work with him in this in and I'm sorry that the show never got made but that's how you know pilots are they're really really it's hard to get a TV show sold and on the air and everything but we gave it our best shot I think it would have been fun but um >> I I realize now we're talking about Willie and Joe and and for the uninitiated I I wonder Todd can you kind of give us a some background when when did they come about? How did they come about?

[00:28:05]>> Uh they came about Joe was born before Pearl Harbor. Joe was born in 1940 when Bill joined the Arizona National Guard at age 18. He joined in September 1940 because he needed three meals a day and new suit of clothes.

[00:28:21]>> Clothes. Yeah.

[00:28:22]>> Yeah. And he got he got a tip that hey, you could join the National Guard.

[00:28:25]They're taking anybody. and he was a high school dropout who was, you know, during the depression, he couldn't get work. So, he joins the Arizona National Guard. He doesn't get a physical and they said, "They counted my eyes and they asked about hemorrhoids and told me I'm going to be riding in trucks for a long time. Can you handle that?"

[00:28:43]Uh, and so he got in and then the, you know, and and he immediately signs on to the 45th Infant Infantry Division News, which is an experiment in morale building, a weekly newspaper that came out for the division. He gets one afternoon off of training, a week to do the cartoon. And in one of his first cartoons, there's a character named Joe.

[00:29:04]And Joe is an inarticulate chalkaw Native American who's in the quartermaster corps who could barely speak English. He speaks a pigeon. He's kind of dim-witted and he stumbles through life in the army. This is Bill during his time with Company D in the 120th quartermaster unit uh of the 45th division. He said the quartermaster unit was corrupt.

[00:29:30]They were skimming off supplies. They were running a prostitution racket. They were bootlegging. They were doing gambling.

[00:29:39]He said the whole experience was very dispiriting for Bill because Bill, he still had a youthful ideal of what maybe what military service could be. So he voluntarily transferred into the infantry.

[00:29:50]First man ever in the history of the army, right, to transfer into the infantry. He transfers into company K of the 180th Infantry Regiment. And he said it was absolutely night and day. That life in the 180th Infantry Regiment was really tough, but morale was high. these Chickasaw Chalkaw warriors, these Mexican-American warriors that he served with in his company. He was one of the few, you know, white soldiers in his company. They were poor, they were hardcrabble, they were very tough, and they were very proud of their soldiering. And he said it just was an uplifting experience. And you could go in that ex exhibit and you could walk through and you could see the transition from Joe, the inarticulate Indian in the early cartoons to Joe, who's a proud infantryman who is making the sardonic comments that uh Joe would later make and Willie would later make uh in in Europe. Uh it happened pretty quickly and it was all before Pearl Harbor. And then when he gets to overseas, you know, he has to have he has to give Joe a buddy. So he created a character named Willie. Willie was older, a bit wiser.

[00:31:08]Joe was younger and uh a bit quieter.

[00:31:13]>> For the record, you can tell which is which by their nose. So if you look at the screen, Willie is on the left, Joe is on the right. Willie has the the sharper nose. I actually heard uh from a colleague of mine who who has done some research on Malden as well. Is it is there any truth to the fact that they switched at some point or they did?

[00:31:32]>> They did. Yeah. Yeah. Joe was originally looked like Willie and Bill changed his name. Bill said this. A psychoanalyst told him years later.

[00:31:42]That Joe was Bill and Willie was his father. Pop.

[00:31:49]>> That's great. [laughter] >> Not sure I believe that.

[00:31:53]>> But these characters were very real to him. They were he they were his creations. He he said at one point, "Did I create them or did they create me?" You know, uh they were very real to him. They were a big part of who he was. Uh they expressed something very deep, I think, in him. I I kind of want to expound on that a little bit or or ask you to to go a little bit more into detail about why Willie and Joe resonated so much with the American soldier when so many other military cartoons were out there, but most of them have faded from public >> because they were they knew that that he was like three foxholes over there.

[00:32:33]Every no one else did what he no one else was there. No one else like that's the that was you can't change that or hide that. He was there with them all the time and they all knew that and that's the reason that you know and on top of it he was really funny. It was that the funny part really helped the fact that he had drew so many funny cartoons made a big I mean they really looked forward to these things. They really did. It was a you know >> Yeah.

[00:32:58]>> important.

[00:32:59]>> The art is beautiful and exquisite. The captions are wonderful. Malden had pit like pitch perfect ear for just getting the diction right, the phrasing right, you know, the the the expression just right in a line or two at most. It's really a rare talent. He was a superb writer as you and I were talking about earlier.

[00:33:24]>> Would you agree that he that he thought that that was the most difficult part?

[00:33:28]>> Yeah, I think he he spent more time probably on the captions than on the on the drawings. And you could you could tell you could say that he fiddled with the captions way more than with drawings. He was always kind of inserting last minute changes, crossouts, because you have to get it just right for the for the joke to land or for the the insight to land.

[00:33:51]>> Yeah. I think that is reflective of his extreme writing talent is is conveying a very complicated point in as few words as possible. And I think he he made art that was readily accessible and people really understood.

[00:34:03]>> Do you know something that he told me once which I and this this has nothing to do with war cartooning because I think that was caption reliant but in terms of political cartooning he always said in his eyes the best political cartoons were the ones that had no captions.

[00:34:19]>> Exactly. You bet. and and and and and it was really funny that that I asked him for an example and he didn't bring up one that I mean he did so many without captions that were incredible but um the this is a perfect political cartoon. The day after the Chapitic incident with with uh with Kennedy, uh Paul Conrad of the LA Times said he drew a picture of a tow truck on the bridge in Chapaquitic pulling a dripping presidential limousine out of the water.

[00:34:52]>> Right.

[00:34:53]>> Everything you need to say in a picture.

[00:34:55]Right.

[00:34:56]>> Well, and when you go into that exhibit there, you're going to see an arresting part of the exhibit. I think it's it's the the it's the centerpiece of it. Uh and it's Tom's genius that I think brought it to life. It's Bill's favorite cartoon that he ever did, which he did in World War II. It's of the you most of you will know it. It's of the the old cavalry sergeant with stripes up his sleeve uh putting uh out of its misery a jeep whose axle has broken.

[00:35:27]>> What a drawing.

[00:35:28]>> And that was, you know, no caption. It just a drawing.

[00:35:31]>> Yeah. just a a wonderful wonderful and and and I think Bill would be so happy that um that this museum has decided to kind of showcase that piece in a in three dimensions in there.

[00:35:44]>> Yeah, that's that's kind of what we were hoping to accomplish. I just sometimes it's just kismmet and things work out in in ways that you don't quite understand at the time. So, we're kind of we're working through this process about how do we expand the footprint of this exhibit. We're thinking about the fact that Malden's always relying on on macros, right? These trucks and the tools of war equipment that the GIS are having to use. And we thought, well, we'll we'll put some macros in there.

[00:36:12]I'm sure that we can kind of replicate a little bit of that Malden feeling. Well, then we continue talking. And the decision was to kind of move into this reality blended with Malden's cartoon style. And that ended up being the perfect piece. Here's what I love about this. A volunteer donated a broken Jeep axle to our museum [laughter] that just happened to be lying around.

[00:36:35]So now we have a Jeep and we have a broken axle. Put the two together and you have the perfect centerpiece for for for that cartoon.

[00:36:43]>> Amazing.

[00:36:43]>> If if you haven't seen it yet, I think you'll you'll all enjoy it greatly. I think it's in if you read up front um Malden does talk about this caption thing and and it's the hardest thing to create a cartoon without one. That was his favorite piece as Todd mentioned and he said you know I sent it off to Yank for the first time they printed it so small a slight sneeze would have blown it off the type setter. That that's how small it was. But he said I don't care.

[00:37:10]I'll keep drawing it and sending it until someone appreciates it. So now it's an homage to to Maldin here at the National World War II Museum.

[00:37:17]>> And you know that gets to something about Maldin's cartoons, what makes his cartoons uh still live and be relevant, which I do believe that they are um all these many years later. Part of it is nobody was quite doing the cartooning that he was doing. There are other wonderful cartoonists. There's uh Private Breger, I think a very fine cartoon from World War II. Sad sack, very famously, you know, wonderful cartoon. But the cartoons that were really popular with the American people at the beginning of the war especially, were the ones that that kind of lampuned, you know, the fumbling citizen being drawn in through the draft. And twothirds of all those who served in the military were drafted in World War II. And then another big chunk were inspired to volunteer because of the draft. So less than 100% maybe gung-ho about serving in the military.

[00:38:08]So you get these, you know, somewhat unwilling and and uh drafties with not much military experience at all and how they just are fumbling through basic training and saluting and all that stuff. And there's a lot of humor in that. That was not Bill's humor.

[00:38:25]No, because he had joined before Pearl Harbor. By the time Pearl Harbor came around and by the time we started shipping uh GIS overseas, he had been in the army of two, three years. you know, he was he felt himself a kind of a veteran infantryman and he served with a bunch of veteran infantry men. So when he hits the ground in Sicily and then southern Italy, he's already, you know, they're already looking like that. You know what I mean? They're already hard bitten infantry soldiers. And this was a perspective that Americans back home had not been used to at all in seeing in cartoons. So this was fresh and different and a kind of a deeper experience of the war than um than Sadzac.

[00:39:10]Yeah. Mentioning their looks. I'm thinking now about you know Molden covered everything that souvenir collecting and and drinking and one of his most important points that he repeatedly makes over and over again is kind of the absurdity of military bureaucracy to men on the front lines.

[00:39:30]So I want to ask this is kind of for both of you. Uh Todd, what about leadership? What did they think about Malden?

[00:39:38]And I know that there is a Patton story and and you were telling us a little bit earlier and whether it happened that way or not. I'd love to hear more about Maldin's interactions with with Patton.

[00:39:49]Um so take it away.

[00:39:51]>> I I you know more about I swear you know more about this than I do. I just it's a very romantic um uh my wife her uh grandfather was a three-star general who worked on Eisenhower's staff. He was he was stationed in Luxembourg right after the war but in in the in like 45 he was working it's you pronounce it she chief right speech okay he was working right shift he was working as Eisenhower's chief of staff in London and this was at the same time that that dad had this famous meeting with Patton where I mean he is standing in front of this desk that's like six yards wide and with the pearl handle refi and the guy's in front Uh, and I'm imagine my dad is terrified and but he says in front of him, I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing. And Patton just went nuts and flipped out and get the hell out, you know, and he would made a call to have him arrested.

[00:40:54]He was going to send him to jail. And this all happened within a matter of 10 minutes and the word got to to Eisenhower who said, "No, no, no. This is this is good for morale. this is this is not you you you leave him alone. You you tell George to back off and leave him alone. And I'm thinking who would make that call? It wouldn't be Eisenhower. He was he wouldn't it would be his chief of staff. And I would like to think that before either of us were even born that that Marie's grandfather kept my father's ass out of jail. And I just think that's I think that's the greatest romantic story I've ever heard.

[00:41:34]>> Yeah. So >> I love it.

[00:41:36]>> Yeah, >> it's possible. Very possible. And generally infantry uh generals absolutely loved Malden. Thought he was good for morale. Thought he was telling it like it was. I mean, you have to remember or we have to remember that infantry was very much the neglected stepchild of the US military, US armed forces during World War II. That it was not anticipated that we were going to need a lot of foot sloggers during this war. we were going to win through uh high technology, you know, long-range artillery, aerial bombardment. Uh when we when we wanted to take ground, we would get kind of small groups of highly specialized, highly trained rangers, you know, or gung-ho marines, paratroopers.

[00:42:20]The infantry was where everybody else went. The infantry was where, you know, you went if you had never worn shoes before, if you uh couldn't read or write, you know, if you didn't have a special skill that might warrant another branch of service. So, when Bill ships overseas with the infantry, they're very much aware, the infantry men are very much aware that they've been neglected. They receive the worst of the uh, you know, the worst of the the the equipment. uh they have the lowest expectations o of them. And it's only in the Italian campaign that the War Department realizes, oh my gosh, we're running out of infantrymen and we're going to need a lot more of them than we ever anticipated. And all of a sudden, just like that, there's this great need to publicize kind of the role of the infantry. And that it does what helps bring Malden to prominence.

[00:43:18]and and that's also why infantry leaders you know generals uh tended to support what Malden did. Now there were others you know the John Lee was a general who was a in charge of the supply situation in in Western Europe. There was a general named Arthur Wilson who was in charge of the peninsular base section which was the rear echelon around Naples and Italy. They hated Malden because all Malden did was complain they weren't the infantry guys in the in the mountains weren't getting enough food. They weren't getting enough ammunition. They were being poorly led. They weren't getting warm clothing. You know, they weren't getting time off from they were spending weeks and weeks in the front lines when they should have been getting these, you know, four-day breaks every once in a while. They were never getting them. And so they were always underman and undersupplied and Malden was kind of making this public and so their infantry officers were very much supporting what Malden did. The big exception among the infantry leaders was Patton. He was he was the one who could no matter he hated Molden from the first second he ever saw the cartoons in Sicily when Maldin was still cartooning for the 45th Division News. He didn't like he didn't understand the humor, I don't think, but he didn't like the scruffiness of the characters. you got to wear that tie, that top button buttoned. You got to, you know, you got to shave every day, even if you're on the front lines. And uh and so he ordered that Molden's cartoons be pulled from the 45th Division News. And credit to uh Troy Middleton, who was the commander of the 45th Infantry Division at the time. He said, "I'm going to need that in writing, George, because my men love this guy."

[00:45:02]And that's when George got pulled from theater for slapping a couple soldiers.

[00:45:06]He accused him of mingering. And that ended that that initial confrontation and that the fact that Patton was pulled from the theater allowed Molden to go and flourish. And it was only later that they then had their face tof face meeting.

[00:45:19]He hated hated hated the the second lieutenants who just came out of you know uh officer trainings whatever who had no experience at all and were were dressing to these 23 year old guys who taking a guy in his 30s who's just been in the front line dressing them down standups all the rest of that dad hated those people more than any other people in the world >> he was doing that all the way back before he ever joined the military Eddie II second Louis. I'm pretty sure he >> he talks about this young fresh out of the the military academy. Uh >> and it it goes it runs through Maldin's life and career. He hated stuffed shirts.

[00:46:02]>> Yeah.

[00:46:02]>> He really disliked people who kind of slid by on their status or on their rank but not on the substance of their character.

[00:46:10]>> Yeah. you you had a question and one of the the things that you mentioned to me before about what would you what would you want people to take away or you know dad's message to people or anything I think his message would be it's not very military but I think his message or one of his main messages would be always make authority account for itself that was that's a big thing and he did not like people who did not earn any who didn't if if if you have this you have to earn it if you if this is given to you if his title is given to you, you have to earn it. You have to back it up.

[00:46:43]Always always make authority account for itself. That would be his thing.

[00:46:47]>> There's a there's a piece in the exhibit that that comes to mind when you talk about that. Um Malden was just not like some anti-officer, I hate all officers kind of guy. It was a matter of of proving yourself. So, there's this great piece. Uh an enlisted men is running with a second lieutenant on his back and the second lieutenant is injured.

[00:47:07]obviously had he had been wounded in battle alongside his men. And so he says, "Don't worry, Lieutenant. I'll get you out of here. They might replace you with one of them salutin devils, right?"

[00:47:16]Like, yes, it's it's a difference in leadership style. I think that he's hitting on >> Ask dad about Lucian Truscuit. Ask him about um uh Omar Bradley even, right?

[00:47:28]But especially Lucian and who >> Lucian Truscuit, >> who was the guy who made the turn to the soldiers, the great Lucian Truscuit. Oh my god. That's still that's the it's in his book. I mean, it's basically there was some sort of ceremony that takes place where um uh a lot of senators a lot I mean this this is postwar or just at the end.

[00:47:49]>> Yeah. This is Memorial Day and I >> This is like this this this just and so well written in your book. Um >> it's a beautiful moment. Um, here all of you people are the gathered elites from Washington. And and here is the general and the general turns and faces the graves of the people who had just the the soldiers who had just died and apologized to them for for being there and gave the rest of his speech to them with his back to the gathering. And I I just I mean I reading that it just takes your breath away. It really does. So yeah, make authority count. I mean, make make uh make it account for itself.

[00:48:33]>> Yeah. So your your father did have great admiration for generals like Lucian Truscuit, >> like Omar Bradley, like Dwight Eisenhower. He also, I have to say, he thought George Patton was a brilliant genius. Absolutely did not discount his genius as a general. He said like, "I don't know why he just picks on me in my cartoons. That's all.

[00:48:54]>> [laughter] >> my own I have with the guy u but he he was a great admirer of of leaders that he thought were really inspiring and and competent.

[00:49:05]>> I am finding it very difficult to believe that we're you know 10 minutes out of of 7 o'clock. So I I want to make sure that we do have some time for audience questions.

[00:49:14]>> Uh before then I'll ask you each one more question I guess. Um uh that puts a lot of pressure on me because I'm not quite sure what to ask really. Yeah, profound and illuminating. I don't know.

[00:49:26]Um I I don't know. Nat, what uh Bill was a really funny guy. I I love everything that he's written. Super witty. What made him laugh?

[00:49:36]>> Oh my god.

[00:49:38]Um >> drawing nibbles on statues. I think >> you want you want to know what made him laugh? Okay. I I don't have like oh he loved null cowards, you know, sophisticated. He I just have anecd moments. I we Marie and I did my wife and I just talked about this. Do you guys know a movie called Cat Blue >> with Lee Marvin? Do you remember the scene? I'm watching this movie. We didn't go to the movies a lot. I'm like 10, 11, 12, whatever. I was there's a shot in this film where Lee Marvin is asleep on the wall and he's and his horse is do you know this? The horse's legs, the horse is leaning on the wall.

[00:50:17]My father saw that and did not stop laughing for 10 minutes. did not stop in the movie theater. He just could not stop laughing. And then all the way home in our Buick station wagon going down Lakeshore Drive, he stops and goes.

[00:50:31][laughter] He didn't stop for a half hour. So that made him laugh. Um uh things things that you know I mean he he he loved a good he loved a good sight gag. He loved he he I showed him I I I worked for an animator uh when I was a young guy named Chuck Jones and I showed dad some of his best work. Um, he did a lot of Looney Tunes and the the the the there was a bulldog character and a cat character always against each other and the cat had one and the bulldog was outside on the in in in the dog house and the cat is in the other side of the window just going laughing and the bulldog stomps on the board and the cat shoots up on the ceiling and then goes down. Dad did not stop laughing for so it's it's I loved when he laughed. I loved hearing him laugh. I did. It was great. But it wasn't any particular, you know, he he would laugh at some of the cheapest, you know, >> but when he laughed, it was a great sound.

[00:51:34]>> I love that.

[00:51:35]>> Yeah.

[00:51:35]>> Did you know how famous he was when you were growing up?

[00:51:37]>> Good question.

[00:51:39]>> I'm curious if you knew just how famous he was when you were growing up.

[00:51:43]>> Good question.

[00:51:44]>> Uh, people in Chicago would, you know, everyone, oh, your dad is I mean I It it's funny when when you grow up with um I don't know when you grow up in the in the you know everywhere we there were sketchbooks all over the house there was artwork everywhere there were on the wall and everything so you know I would go to other people's houses when I was a little kid for playdates or whatever and I'd look around going well where are your cartoons [laughter] because it wasn't you know it it was just normal to to me. So, I didn't I didn't but but it it um when when I was like 14 or 15, we're on our way to a uh party on the north side and my mom wasn't feeling well and it was just dad and I and it we weren't this was a tough I 14 15 it's a tough age with your dad. So, we didn't really and and and we didn't we hadn't talked about the war very much. I knew what he did for a living, but it was sort of, you know, like I said, it was just But but that night we're at the party and the word comes in that that Martin Luther King has been shot. And the part is like went through this like a wave of people. Um um and then 20 minutes later, the word came that he he had died. And so so everybody in this party is crying. this is like this awful awful moment in our history and we did not go home. We went to the paper and and I sat in a corner of his office. I had a you know lots of books and I was just sort of sitting there and he was at the drawing board and he drew a cartoon and the cartoon was u there was a rifle that read Dallas 1963 and another rifle that read Memphis 1968. Same rifle with the scope and everything. No caption. That was what and I watched him draw it and I looked at it and went, "Oh my god, it's like all the stuff everybody's feeling distilled into a drawing."

[00:53:56]>> Yeah.

[00:53:57]>> And that's that was a moment where I said, "Oh, this is what this guy does."

[00:54:02]>> Yeah.

[00:54:02]>> And and I'll never forget that. So >> I think that speaks very much to how how seriously he took his work and how committed he was. And I know after the Kennedy assassination, he was he was at the drawing board with >> 90 minutes it took.

[00:54:16]>> Yeah, within within an hour.

[00:54:17]>> Yeah, very quickly he did that the grieving Lincoln cartoon very quickly.

[00:54:22]>> Um, sadly, for the sake of time, I think we're going to have to to skip the last question. Whatever I would have asked him would have been an okay question.

[00:54:30]Whatever he would have said would have been very intellectual and profound. I I guarantee it.

[00:54:35]>> Um, so at Thank Thank you both so much really for for your insight. Thank you for this >> for the thoughtful conversation.

[00:54:44]It really it really is special to get to see those two perspectives come together. So, we appreciate you being here. It means a lot to us. Um, I'm going to turn the floor over now to the audience for any questions out there. If you have a question, feel free to raise your hand and we'll have a staff member bring you a microphone.

[00:55:03]>> Uh, thank thank you all for a very interesting uh presentation. I'm kind of curious for u both of you. You mentioned that he wasn't necessarily the best father and I'm wondering to what extent that might have been his generation. The uh I think he was adopted. Am I correct?

[00:55:20]No, >> he was he his dad was his father was adopted. Yeah.

[00:55:23]>> And then that that might have carried over.

[00:55:25]>> A lot of it had to do with that. I think >> and or his generation or the trauma that he went through during the war.

[00:55:31]>> I think it was a combination of the two.

[00:55:33]That's what I would that would be I mean I just think it and it was he was he was a he grew up in the in in the >> in the pit of the depression >> and they were they grew up in a in the how much in Arizona they were four years they were in Arizona.

[00:55:49]>> Yeah. I mean this was a parapotetic family that moved around a very unstable alcoholic father. He had >> his mother also unstable mentally ill.

[00:56:00]The mother leaves the family when Bill is 14 years old. And so Bill and his older brother Sid and there's Sid's picture was he and Sid. There are great pictures of him circulating here. Um they left they moved and started life on their own. They drove to Phoenix, Arizona and lived in a boarding house and went to high school. So this is a kid who kind of raised himself. He didn't have any role models for how to be a parent. Yeah, >> it's amazing that he actually he did as good a job as a father that he did.

[00:56:30]>> Absolutely.

[00:56:33]>> Yeah. So, I guess following that segue, I'm here with my dad who brought me to this and we spent the day together, played golf, all the things. And uh with that um you know, we're talking about politics throughout the day and life did either from a father or from a biography standpoint. I saw especially like the shoe in the Jeep was recycled through you multiple stages. at least two or three cartoons we had the luxury of walking through prior to the event. Did he have any perspective or you know history repeats itself. Did he have any expectation that like half of his exhibits transfer to what everything is today still? It's >> incredible isn't it?

[00:57:11]>> Did he have that self-awareness that he his animations may transcend time? I guess >> I I don't think so.

[00:57:22]>> I don't think he did. I think it's just in the moment.

[00:57:24]>> I don't think he had any I mean I think as he grew older he understood the historical significance of some of his work, but I don't think he ever had an inkling that a particular piece that he'd be working on would be relevant decades later. I mean, you go in that exhibit, you see a cartoon from 1991 from Operation Desert Storm, George HW Bush opening a can in celebration of winning the Gulf War. Yeah.

[00:57:52]>> And the can is a can of worms.

[00:57:54]>> Yeah.

[00:57:55]>> And you realize like, oh man, that really that really, you know, that we're still there. We're still there.

[00:58:02]>> He drew a cartoon in 1966 or ' 67 of a workingass guy with patches on his clothes and he's eagerly carrying this sack of money for the rich guy down to the limousine. That was 60 years ago.

[00:58:17]Whatever. Same. just come circling right back around again. So, >> um I read I picked up his book, The Brash Ring, off of a grocery store turnstyle library loan thing in Chicago in 1971 and didn't give it back. He's got it now. [clears throat] >> Um it's been read about 15 20 times. And one of the things that amazed me was when the American troops landed in Sicily, the first thing your father talked about was how hard it was to get the zinc to make the plates so his cartoons could be put in the paper. I haven't heard anybody mention this. it.

[00:59:03]He would have there are stories in the book of him buying caskets and then the mortuary guy would help him tear the casket apart to get all the zinc so he could make the plates >> right >> to get his cartoon in the paper, >> right?

[00:59:20]>> And that's all I mean that that shows a kind of dedication to me. I just can't absolut I can't imagine right >> in the middle of a war zone. The first thing you do is go find the guys at the funeral home and you start tearing them apart caskets to get your word out.

[00:59:36]>> You know who was on that staff? You know Andy Rooney was on that staff too. The 60 Minutes guy. They were He was worked right with him.

[00:59:43]>> Wow.

[00:59:43]>> They wanted to get the paper out.

[00:59:46]>> They wanted to get the paper out. Yeah.

[00:59:47]And they wanted to get the paper out because Bill saw what war was like. Bill had been a rifleman in then Company K.

[00:59:54]He had been transferred full-time to the 45th Infantry Division News, which had a staff of three. He landed in Sicily as a as a newsman with the 45th Infantry Division. And he saw the attrition in the infantry and he realized they're going to need trigger pullers and they're going to pull me off the paper into the front lines. He was desperate to make sure that the paper continued to publish uh from the day they landed in Sicily uh to make sure that he would stay on the paper and not go into the foxholes.

[01:00:32]>> Unfortunately, I think that's going to be our last question for the night. Um if you want to continue asking questions, I'm perfectly willing to stay around and answer a few. I don't know if I can speak for these two. Maybe they will as well. Um, I want to thank all of you for coming out tonight and for being here for this special exhibit opening.

[01:00:50]>> Um, if you haven't yet, definitely be sure to go see the exhibit. If you're watching online, um, the exhibit is going to be on view in our Senator John Olio Jr. special exhibit hall at the National World War II Museum until April 18th, 2027. And also be sure to stay tuned to our um our website for about programming regarding the exhibit, including a sketching workshop that's coming up in September. So, thank you all so much and we'll see you next time at the National World War II Museum.

[01:01:23][applause]