The Man Is the Head.. But at What Cost? | African Marriage, Gender Roles & Tradition | UNSPOKEN Ep.1

[00:00:07][music] >> Across Africa, many of us are born into roles long before we were born into ourselves. Rules about who leads, who provides, who submits, and who sacrifices. These roles are passed down as wisdom, but rarely interrogated as systems. Today, we're asking a question that lives quietly in many homes. Spoken softly and enforced loudly, but often never challenged. The man is the head, but at what cost?

[00:00:40]This conversation isn't about attacking culture. It's about examining it honestly. About understanding what tradition gives us and what it asks us to carry.

[00:00:51]This is unspoken.

[00:00:54]>> [music] >> On today's episode, we are unpacking gender roles, power, submission, and partnership in African homes. Today with me, I have a group of various voices, incredible voices from all across business sectors. Um, and we're going to discuss that topic today on Unspoken.

[00:01:17]So, I want to get started by getting your, um, introductions. Give us your name, where you're from, what you do, um, and just a little bit about yourself.

[00:01:25]>> My name is Aya Diké Michael Olaniyi, widely known as M Tish.

[00:01:30]Um, a social impact entrepreneur, um, a mental health activist, and um, a psychotherapist.

[00:01:39]>> Nice. That's it. Thank you for joining us.

[00:01:41]>> Hi, everyone. I am Chichi Arinze. I'm the CEO and co-founder of Movement by AutoGirl. We are a car sharing mobility tech company.

[00:01:51]Yeah.

[00:01:52]>> Um, my name is Tochukwu Okonkwo, known as Dr. Foy.

[00:01:55]I I work in music.

[00:01:58]Meaning um cultural entertainment.

[00:02:01]I I drive in a lot of things in Alpha Gospel Elevate Africa, just on social media.

[00:02:08]And I'm I'm glad to be here.

[00:02:10]>> Okay, so let's dive right in. Um when we talk about our viewpoints on love and family, on friendship, what kind of approach do you guys take? Are you more of a traditional mindset or a more modern mindset? Ladies first.

[00:02:21]>> I think my first question would be what exactly is the traditional mindset when it comes to love and what's the modern mindset? Cuz for me, I don't think there's any rule that is set in stone, right? Um I just think you and your partner should have an understanding.

[00:02:35]>> Okay, so traditional is more so the man is the the the leader of the home. The woman is more of the caretaker.

[00:02:41]>> Mhm.

[00:02:42]>> Um and there are um not strict, but certain gender roles that we adhere to. So you know, the woman might cook and clean and take care of the kids. She may have her own um business on the side. Um the husband will go out and provide and lead, make decisions, um and things of that nature.

[00:02:59]But modern is more so you could think of it as a shared responsibility.

[00:03:03]Um the woman might go out and work more and be excited about that and um also but while taking care of the kids, the man may cook a little bit more at home.

[00:03:12]So it's just sharing those responsibilities.

[00:03:14]>> I think for me is both of them because there are sides of it. So first of all, I think that every kind of relationship or organization needs a leader.

[00:03:25]I personally, I don't want to lead. I lead in my business, so I don't want to lead in my family. So my husband should very well be the head of the home. But I don't like I I I don't subscribe to having like certain gender roles. Like I don't subscribe to oh, I have to be the one to cook. Like [clears throat] who We both can figure out who has the most energy.

[00:03:44]We are both working, right? Who can who can solve this right now? But personally for me, that's not an issue cuz thank God, I can afford a chef. But there are other things that of course might they might think is get towards the women which I don't think should be like who has We are both bringing 100% each into this marriage. So, who has that 100% right now to drop and who has the 100% to drop the next day? So, that that that's what it is for me.

[00:04:06]>> Yeah.

[00:04:07]>> I have a different approach.

[00:04:08]>> Okay.

[00:04:08]>> Totally.

[00:04:09]>> Mhm.

[00:04:10]>> And And the reason why is that I have a lot of context.

[00:04:13]So, I'll give you like three verticals.

[00:04:16]So, the first vertical is um from as much as I'm I'm playing from a nerd.

[00:04:22]>> Mhm.

[00:04:22]>> And there were two guys who drove psychology globally. There was Carl Jung and there was Sigmund Freud.

[00:04:30]And And Carl Jung s- made a point. He kept saying that there's something called the collective unconsciousness.

[00:04:38]And he says that in quotes, in the Gen Z era in the Gen Z era >> Yes.

[00:04:45]>> it is not about age. It's about psychology.

[00:04:49]So, for example, in this time because of the era we're in collectively what we call traditional has changed.

[00:04:58]>> Fair.

[00:04:58]>> Because on Tik Tok, on Instagram, on Spotify, on on all the podcasts, women are saying, "Hey, don't don't do that to me."

[00:05:08]Do you get the point? Collectively, I I I work for Elevate Africa. We do a lot of work with numbers. There's a lot of um The world has funded more women training, women So, collectively I think that it's a different era. So, what Who am I? I think for a long time I struggled to find a definition of of a role. I'll explain to you. In the era of the age the the stone age, men had to become defenders because there was snow, there was bear, there was So, that age schooled what a man's role was.

[00:05:45]Yeah. By biology, a man is stronger.

[00:05:48]Biology No, I'm not trying to be confrontational. Drag me.

[00:05:51]>> Biology.

[00:05:52]>> Testosterone.

[00:05:54]>> Yeah.

[00:05:54]>> Yeah. Biology, man is stronger.

[00:05:57]The biology. So, there was that age.

[00:05:59]Then there was the religious age. When when the Catholic Church came and that age used the Bible to define man.

[00:06:08]Don't fight me. I'm just saying >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:11]>> But in these ages, it be different because in this age, women now have money.

[00:06:17]We don't need to kill bears.

[00:06:20]Mhm. Yeah.

[00:06:22]We don't need to kill bears.

[00:06:23]We don't need to fight snow.

[00:06:25]There's no industrial There's no AI driving industrialization.

[00:06:30]So, I have So, men have to find a different interpretation of a role.

[00:06:34]>> Mhm.

[00:06:35]>> And I I lean towards partnership.

[00:06:37]>> Okay.

[00:06:38]>> I lean towards partnership.

[00:06:40]I lean towards culture. So, I will say tradition. I'll say culture.

[00:06:45]Because culture keeps us safe. So, for example, I'm Igbo.

[00:06:49]And the Igbos have a culture. So, I remember my dad I'm not as talkative as before because he calls me "Dọọchụkụ."

[00:06:57]He said, "Dọọchụkụ, don't marry any Igbo girl." And I And I was like, "Why would I marry?" He was like, "Because culture only you are close."

[00:07:05]And we would value >> Yeah. That's the same kind of saying that >> That he didn't force me. He was like, "You will value it. You will An Igbo woman likes It looks like no Like no one else will >> [laughter] >> Do you get the point? But but that So, So, for me, I would say it's cultural and and progressive in this earth.

[00:07:24]That's That's how I define this.

[00:07:26]>> Mhm. Okay. So, so, so, for both of what you said, I mean, very on point. Very on point. And And that's why I keep saying that we need to understand the basis.

[00:07:35]See?

[00:07:36]You know, we need to know where we're coming from. How did we get here?

[00:07:40]You know, it was what it was before it what it is now.

[00:07:43]So, now that we are here, progressing, beautiful, but instead of totally overhauling where we're coming from, because what what kept our fathers, you know, we need to study, you know, I mean, the father of psychology, Sigmund Freud, he talked about you know, and you know, these days psychology is growing. Yes. There were a lot of researches that we've outmoded.

[00:08:08]>> Mhm.

[00:08:08]>> Yes, they're no longer They're no longer valid. They're not working for the age that we have. That's why we move from millennial to, you know, Gen Z, and now we're even looking towards Gen Alpha, right? So, instead of totally overhauling those things, for me, even as a psychologist, I tell them in my school, can we just improve on those things? If they've worked before, instead of totally saying, "Okay, this one is no longer valid." Is there a way we can improve on them?

[00:08:35]Instead of saying, "Okay, men used to be the head. Now they are no longer the head." Because no organization can move without structure.

[00:08:42]>> Yes, exactly.

[00:08:43]>> So, question, what is head?

[00:08:45]I I and Okay.

[00:08:48]Can I ask?

[00:08:49]>> Mhm.

[00:08:49]>> Okay, good. Um Are you saying that I'm a head? So, is it cash?

[00:08:56]>> It's a scary question.

[00:08:58]>> So, let's let's let's let's define what a head is.

[00:09:01]>> Is the head >> the provider of the house, cash, money?

[00:09:05]>> No. No, no, no, no.

[00:09:06]>> Cuz so, what's the head?

[00:09:07]>> The head for me is the person that that's calls the shots. And it doesn't mean the woman cannot call the shots.

[00:09:14]Now, for me, it puts a man in the place of authority.

[00:09:18]The place of authority. Just like I'm a believer, just like Christ is the head of the church, you know? And so, we have a place we can look up to. We have a baseline. We're not just working out of, you know, we we are not structured.

[00:09:33]Everyone is free free to do what they want to do. Mom can come, do whatever she wants to do. There's no There's no policy. There's no guideline. There's nothing guiding the house. And that's the That's the position of the man for me. You know, where the man is there to say lead and people follow. Now, as a leader, I mean, there are so many things that comprise of the comprises of a leader.

[00:09:54]The leader has to be flexible. The leader has to also, you know, carry people along, be a good listener, be empathetic, and all of that. So, that leader can now, okay, the wife is saying something, we co-opt, we are inclusive in the family, but somebody has to just take the lead. That's That's how I feel about it.

[00:10:11]>> Um as I am for the men here.

[00:10:12]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:10:14]>> You want to hear you.

[00:10:15]>> [laughter] >> But But I hear you.

[00:10:17]>> Okay.

[00:10:18]>> What I'll just say is that by observations of 8 years married, 8 years to have two daughters, and that you're that.

[00:10:26]>> Okay.

[00:10:27]>> And by by it's observed from my daughters observing my dads, I have two dads, and I think that men and women lead differently.

[00:10:38]I think so. I've observed it. They lead, and that's what has hurt the world. The world is messed up because we need to respect how a >> A man leads.

[00:10:50]>> My wife, for example, pays attention to my daughters.

[00:10:55]I've tried it. 1 hour.

[00:10:57]No.

[00:10:58]>> [laughter] >> That's the only way she's leading.

[00:11:02]>> No, she's leading something.

[00:11:04]>> That's good.

[00:11:04]>> She's leading something.

[00:11:06]>> She's For example, she's covering me and in an area she's leading.

[00:11:11]>> So, is leadership only when you are good at something? Because like, for example, I'm the leader of my organization, but I do not handle marketing, I do not handle customer care, and I have leaders that I mean, managers that handle this. So, am I saying that, "Oh, they are my leader, I'm the leader, they are the manager, and then there is people down them." So, >> My point is >> I let me truly guide them.

[00:11:34]>> Yes, that's my point.

[00:11:35]>> That's That's what I said about flexibility.

[00:11:38]>> My point is that they can be There has [laughter] to be two leaders because I'll give an example.

[00:11:43]I'm honest with you. My dad was a greedy man.

[00:11:46]I read medicine because I had to read medicine. Do you see me? He's still a doctor.

[00:11:51]But he was a great man because he He was He was in the Biafra season. So, he was trained I don't cry. He was I was trained to be at 10 you tell me if I die at 10 father now >> Wow.

[00:12:04]>> instant.

[00:12:05]Now, I don't want that energy on my daughter. She She's soft. She wants to be five a girl and I don't have the context of of leading a lady.

[00:12:15]>> Mhm.

[00:12:15]>> I don't. Like I can pretend to.

[00:12:19]I can fake it.

[00:12:20]But I had no context of For example, like I remember last last last two months ago my wife said my wife Do you know what she Do you see me? She sent me some videos. Some videos. So, I busy me. And And I remember I remember that I was checking my phone doing business. Like how to No, no, no.

[00:12:37]My mom was And my daughter was in front of me most of the time. Daddy, see me.

[00:12:41]And that's I don't For me, I'm like so I had to learn how to So, she's leading me in being >> She's teaching how to be like a lady.

[00:12:50]Yeah. So, so me personally, right? I do not think they can be two leaders in the organization because in my organization if there are two there's no clear street. Oh my god.

[00:13:00]Everybody will be chaotic. But do I Can I learn from the customer care rep on how to attend to customers? Of course. I can't attend to customers better than my customer care team lead. Can I learn from my marketing team lead on how to run ads?

[00:13:14]>> I don't think I disagree that. I'm a liar. Of I say and I'll give you many many Okay, I'll give you many context.

[00:13:20]>> Okay.

[00:13:21]>> Number one, I'm not looking for KPI. I'm training the soul.

[00:13:25]You You're looking for KPIs. I'm training the soul.

[00:13:27]>> Okay.

[00:13:28]>> A soul needs more than KPIs and marketing. A soul needs time that I never learned.

[00:13:33]>> Mhm.

[00:13:33]>> Now, I hear everybody's avoiding co-leadership. Because it seems like but the Bible says can two >> Marketing ever >> So, if they agree to lead together, >> Mhm.

[00:13:46]>> it's different. And I'll tell you why. A lot of men are dying because they have they're given buttons that they don't know about.

[00:13:55]>> Mhm.

[00:13:55]>> They don't know about. I don't know Listen, I don't know Man, I was trained to be like a beast. I don't know how to No, you say lead.

[00:14:03]Okay, I'll lead.

[00:14:04]I'll lead quietly. I'll lead dying. I I'm I would lead suffering. Oh, yeah, I'll lead. I would lead. Oh, yeah, I'll If it's money you want, I'll give you money.

[00:14:12]I think >> Mhm.

[00:14:13]>> it is how I love my wife that she submit to me.

[00:14:18]>> No.

[00:14:19]It's actually even submit to one another. Why does it call that part?

[00:14:22]>> Ephesians 5.

[00:14:23]>> Yeah.

[00:14:24]>> Yeah.

[00:14:25]Yeah.

[00:14:25]>> But I do think if you're going to go biblical, in the Bible there is a hierarchy.

[00:14:28]>> Yes. Yes, that's the man. Yes.

[00:14:30]>> Woman, but it also says Ephesians 5 submit to one another. So, there's equity. It values. So, exactly what you're saying and >> But But can I flip it?

[00:14:39]>> Yeah.

[00:14:39]>> Do women Can a woman take a man's brokenness? It's really a different era for men. And a lot of men don't know how to respond. I'll I'll be honest with you.

[00:14:50]>> Let me Let me say this. Let me say that I hear you because this is the second time that I'm hearing that the pressure kissing men to an early grave. So, I I definitely like hear you. So, what do you think that men need? Because if people are labeling you the head and you're like, "Okay, I'll lead, but at what cost?" then what is it that you guys need in order for you to feel a level of comfortability that doesn't push you bound to an early grave?

[00:15:13]>> I think the first thing is that you need therapy.

[00:15:20]We need therapy.

[00:15:21]We need therapy.

[00:15:23]Now, I wouldn't even say there's the therapy, there's the there's the stigma of therapy. That's not That's >> [laughter] >> That's not the real issue. Because by collectively, we are now blessing more people talk about it.

[00:15:37]Yes, it's not the stigma. I think the real issue with therapy is that most men don't trust.

[00:15:46]If a man opens up to you, are you you you name somehow you It's bad, but it's called ego. I mean, it's a bad thing. I'm not saying it's a right thing.

[00:15:55]But you were trained with with with with Yes, go and tell your husband that.

[00:16:01]You understand?

[00:16:03]Most men don't trust. That's number one.

[00:16:06]So, we have to learn how to trust.

[00:16:09]If you're married and your husband opens up to you once, please don't use it against him. Don't try it. Most men Most men do it. So, that's that's the first thing, trust. Because most men don't trust. Most men are That's number one.

[00:16:23]Number two, most men And this is most men fear.

[00:16:31]Let's say Most men fear when I'm But they are afraid. You know why?

[00:16:37]For example, I remember I remember Fear of judgment.

[00:16:42]>> [laughter] >> Most men Most men fear. afraid I I I I And I remember about anxiety. My wife My wife's father trained her in a way They give him What I feel What I feel And it's real, guys.

[00:16:59]Most men fear. I I think finally on this this part, I think the world I think the world made fought us too much.

[00:17:08]against us too much.

[00:17:10]Men don't cry. Men don't Men don't Men >> The society fought you all The society is still fighting.

[00:17:15]>> Fighting Oh, yeah. Men don't cry. Men this thing men men men men.

[00:17:18]>> How is society fighting men?

[00:17:19]>> Thank you.

[00:17:20]Society is fighting men because society is not allowing men to be men.

[00:17:24]Society is not allowing men to be expressive, to be human. Society is not allowing men to be vulnerable.

[00:17:30]Society is um conditioning men you know conforming men to the um social expectations.

[00:17:38]So that this was that was that that was a social expectation. And there is still a social expectation. And in this world where we're becoming aware now, we say men should cry.

[00:17:47]>> I always now saying that on the other side of the gender we are not like we're not facing similar things.

[00:17:53]>> No, we are facing of course I'm a woman. I'm a woman and I know that we we face a lot of things. But I can tell you that we face these things and we are expressive.

[00:18:03]We have women advocates everywhere. I didn't want to be a woman advocate. I wanted to be a men advocate. But they didn't help me.

[00:18:09]There's opportunity for everybody. The world is now very inclusive in the sense that you are advocating for that. People advocating for women. There people advocating for men.

[00:18:18]>> Mhm really?

[00:18:18]>> There's an dude there that is just being a incel talking about and he has a point.

[00:18:23]>> What's the ratio of women advocates to men and advocates? I don't I don't know the numbers. I'd like to use numbers cuz I don't want us to say oh I think. Cuz that's what people usually do. So if we're going to talk about advocates versus advocates let's give exact numbers. Because I know that the reason why focus is being is on women right now is because the gap was very criminal.

[00:18:45]And that is why in the past couple of years let's say in the past five years everyone is like wait let's pay attention to these people. They've not been paid attention to. But well.

[00:18:53]>> I think the world also has to cut one slack.

[00:18:57]Is that every era of transition so in the tech world they say when an era ends they all go to ground zero.

[00:19:07]>> Yep it resets.

[00:19:08]>> It resets.

[00:19:09]In this reset era men just didn't get it right.

[00:19:15]Men didn't get it right. Why? I'll explain.

[00:19:19]With social media tech, with the with the with with a localization localization of the world, so when I in a small village a lady is seeing what's happening in Brazil and France and Senegal. The world now sees culture and this and that. So we're seeing The reason why you you're this powerful is that you've seen somewhere in London a woman is powerful.

[00:19:41]We we we saw possibility, women have seen potential, women have seen leadership. Oh, wow, we can okay. And yeah.

[00:19:50]So that's two.

[00:19:53]The world has seen that where women lead Mhm.

[00:19:57]they try.

[00:19:59]And we'll see that cuz they lead with empathy.

[00:20:02]They lead with community. They want to They nurture.

[00:20:07]Men are KPI driven.

[00:20:10]They nurture.

[00:20:12]But in this whole era we now have to define what a man is.

[00:20:17]We went from Who am I now?

[00:20:20]What am I now? If my wife is If my wife is richer than me, if my wife my wife is has goes to gym, she's fit, so what's my identity?

[00:20:30]>> Let me ask you something. Okay. Dr. Ford, so who are you?

[00:20:36]>> Honestly, I'm finding myself.

[00:20:38]>> Oh, thank you.

[00:20:40]>> I'm journeying to find myself.

[00:20:42]I'm journeying to understand that I Let Let me give you an example. An Igbo man or Igbo culture the Igbo culture regards I say this with with respect. They regard male children.

[00:21:00]The Igbo culture regards >> He talked about this earlier.

[00:21:04]>> It's It's It's It's bad or good, it's just culture. So, we shouldn't try and have two daughters.

[00:21:09]>> Mhm.

[00:21:10]>> I had to see these girls and they are phenomenal.

[00:21:16]They healed every part of me. This Do you understand?

[00:21:19]>> Yeah.

[00:21:20]>> So, I'm saying that I'm joining into the new world of of manhood.

[00:21:26]>> Wow.

[00:21:27]>> And the new rule of manhood will be when men can watch Arsenal together, but also share vulnerability. Let me say this.

[00:21:39]If men can find community with men, they heal faster.

[00:21:44]>> True.

[00:21:45]>> Men don't only look at football and business. Look at soul and emotion.

[00:21:51]When a man But where I come like a man have a guy said said, "No worry." When a man encourage another man, it's a different vibe.

[00:22:00]>> Mhm.

[00:22:00]>> No bad encouragement to only your wife.

[00:22:03]Good one. That's the good one. Number two is also men now have to She said it in a very hard way, kill your ego.

[00:22:11]>> Mhm.

[00:22:11]>> It's tough because ego is also attached to biology. I'm serious.

[00:22:14]>> Yes.

[00:22:15]>> There's a hormone. There's a >> It's a um social condition.

[00:22:18]>> Yeah. It's also it's It's not as easy as you think it is.

[00:22:21]>> Yeah, it's not.

[00:22:22]>> But we have to have these conversations because it's finishing us. It's destroying us.

[00:22:27]>> So, so research has it that the high level of testosterone in men um kills their ability to express. And also affects them in crying.

[00:22:39]But the prolactin, the high prolactin in women, you know, makes them tear up easily.

[00:22:46]And that's why it's harder for men to cry.

[00:22:47]>> Guys are now learning to be more emotionally aware. They're not scared of their feelings and they're like, "Oh my god." What we have been through, but like that is the real strength. And the older men are like are seeing it subconsciously and they know that, "Oh my god, this is strength, too."

[00:23:01]>> So, is this communication?

[00:23:02]>> It's communication. It's being open about your feelings. It's not feeling like, "Oh, you can be You need to build a wall because you're a man and nobody needs to know what's Nobody needs to see you coming." Well, so you know what? You know what? Let Let me flip this. Cuz you're you're a big girl.

[00:23:18]>> Mhm.

[00:23:18]>> Like you're an entrepreneur.

[00:23:19]>> Mhm.

[00:23:19]>> If you earn times three of your husband, sorry, times 10, will you respect him?

[00:23:27]>> Hm.

[00:23:28]Will I respect him? I think respect should be tied to money. I know that it's hard. I know that still there's something about money in every gender, not just men and women. Even money is any time I marry a man that is any time 10 of me. The chances of him respecting me is next to zero to as well. So, as a human being tied to money, when you are 10 times higher than any person, it's harder. But I will still want to respect him. Because honestly, if I'm earning that much, I we can I can I can Our lifestyle will still be soft. It does not change the fact that when we're going to have sex, he's the one that has to I mean, everything like It does not change the fact that he's a man. It does not change the fact that he can He's a man. It does not change the fact that he's a man. So, I think I I would want to respect him. But I know that I am conscious of the fact that it's going to be hard. Because I'm a human being and any human being that has 10 x more money than another human being, the chances of you not being respectful to that person and being humble is hard. It's not natural. You have to coin it. And I think me I have I have I have a I have to grow my humility. Boom.

[00:24:30]Cheers, then. So, I would like to respect him and I think I will try my best. But I know that it's not going to be easy. You, too, if you have 10 x more money than your wife, you will not respect her. It's going to It's not going to be easy. Yes.

[00:24:41]>> No.

[00:24:41]>> I don't think that's true for me.

[00:24:42]>> That's not true.

[00:24:43]>> I'm still men that They They enjoy it.

[00:24:45]>> That's not true.

[00:24:46]>> No, no, that's not true.

[00:24:46]>> They They enjoy it. 10 x >> That's not true.

[00:24:49]>> 10 x How many men do you know that married a woman 10 x? It's not like, "Oh, >> There's so many stay-at-home moms.

[00:24:54]>> There are stay-at-home moms, but it's not 10 x. Either that they might they might be rich but then maybe their family is also rich.

[00:25:00]>> Mhm.

[00:25:01]>> A MAN IS NOT GOING to get my 10x.

[00:25:03]>> I know one.

[00:25:03]>> Mhm. Okay.

[00:25:04]>> I So, this is my The reason she's you you have >> 10x or not so >> She's right >> [clears throat] >> in her >> 10x.

[00:25:11]>> But but I will say that I'll say that one one thing I hear from me my wife's family is richer than me.

[00:25:17]>> Mhm.

[00:25:18]>> My wife's father is 10x the wife.

[00:25:22]>> Yes.

[00:25:23]>> But men also find definitions different.

[00:25:30]Men A A woman that can take care of a man's child >> Mhm.

[00:25:33]>> he respects the woman.

[00:25:36]When my healing started coming as a man was when one day cuz I'm also Christian >> Mhm.

[00:25:42]>> God told me that the first technology he could trust was a man's mind.

[00:25:47]>> Wow.

[00:25:49]>> And it wasn't about money.

[00:25:50]>> What?

[00:25:52]>> It was that Adam could name any animals and So, you're right.

[00:25:57]I've seen girls that are 10x me. 10 women are 10x me. But because I can lead them tell them go this way, go that way, it's different.

[00:26:08]>> Mhm.

[00:26:09]>> I agree the world has prioritized money.

[00:26:12]Bring out the what is life.

[00:26:14]>> And humility is not natural.

[00:26:15]>> natural.

[00:26:16]>> Mhm.

[00:26:16]>> But I think that men watching this should understand that I mean it. I I know rich girls that I don't marry. Big big girls big girls that are rich like and they did they're not looking for a man that's richer than them. No. They're looking for a man that can >> lead.

[00:26:35]>> lead their emotion.

[00:26:36]>> My husband doesn't mind me leading. He said, "Babe, go make us some money."

[00:26:41]He's fine. He's a homemaker. He takes care of the children. I have four of them.

[00:26:45]Mhm.

[00:26:47]I mean and I've been married for September I'm going to be 13 years. You know, my husband doesn't mind. He said, "Babe, go make us some money. And please, before you even get home, let me get the alerts."

[00:26:58]>> Mhm.

[00:26:58]>> You know, and you won't even spend a dime without our agreement. You know, so for me, when you're talking about co-leadership, it's cool. And as I said, a leader has to be flexible to allow another person's opinion, the wife's opinion. So, you're not leading as an autocratic person, like it's what I say that is final. You know that this is my own expertise. I can lead this way. But I My husband also cannot lead without our girls.

[00:27:24]He said, "I would I would just enjoy there." Because I'm saying this I'm saying it I'm saying it and they don't even hear me. What is this?

[00:27:30]>> Uh-huh.

[00:27:30]>> You know, so he said, "Go and meet your mom." And when they come to me, we understand and they go back to him and say, "Daddy, now we understand." He said, "Ah, thank God."

[00:27:37]You know, so he understands his area of expertise. He's doing it well. And where he knows that I can lead better, also with funds management, he knows I lead better with that. My husband is a fair Christmas. You know.

[00:27:49]>> Mhm.

[00:27:49]>> So, he said, "Oh, okay, then. Madam, you're in charge of the account." And that's leadership for me. That's leadership. You can learn it.

[00:27:55]Teachability.

[00:27:56]>> Exactly.

[00:27:56]>> You can learn from another person and then your wife. You can learn from your children. You can delegate, you know.

[00:28:02]But for this, you know, this new breed of men that are coming up that has now taken empathy to the extreme.

[00:28:09]So, when we come on tables like this, for me and as if for my professional perspective, we don't generalize. I first ask for your story because the why is always important than the what.

[00:28:20]Why you do what you do is more important than what you do. So, if Dr. Ford is talking like this because of his experience, there's another man that was trained in a more flexible, you know, um background that would come and and that's what I'm saying for your husband.

[00:28:33]>> Mhm.

[00:28:34]>> His masculinity is not missing and he's also imparting at the same time. It's because of his background. Ask him.

[00:28:40]>> Yes. He has a very extreme masculine dad.

[00:28:43]>> You know, so there's a blend that has helped him to be where he is today.

[00:28:48]>> Let me shake some tables.

[00:28:49]>> Yes, please.

[00:28:50]>> Let's just shake it a bit.

[00:28:51]But it's real. I think that I remember I remember I I recently read an article that was very very scary.

[00:28:58]>> Okay.

[00:28:59]>> And the article was from a country, I think it was Ghana.

[00:29:02]>> Okay.

[00:29:03]>> They did a a data set and they said that most women trust their pastors over their husband.

[00:29:10]>> Oh my god.

[00:29:11]>> Are they who >> This one.

[00:29:12]>> They are not there.

[00:29:14]>> This one.

[00:29:15]>> And I and I say this because >> I'm not there.

[00:29:17]>> Religion religion misappropriated Africa and religion is five and six. I mean all kind of religion, Islam. We are religious people.

[00:29:27]And I've seen people escape with religion, not appropriate religion.

[00:29:33]I've seen wives use Jesus as their husband.

[00:29:38]>> Hm.

[00:29:39]>> And don't marry, it's a cheating.

[00:29:40]>> Get married and and and it looks it looks very um regard holy. But the man is dying.

[00:29:48]My your husband is dying.

[00:29:50]You're not giving him sex, you're fasting.

[00:29:52]>> Ah, no no no no. Those people don't live their life.

[00:29:56]>> Is it reality? But it's a reality of of >> Some people, yes.

[00:30:00]>> of of the culture.

[00:30:01]>> Yeah.

[00:30:02]>> So men to use religion >> Mhm.

[00:30:05]>> to >> escape.

[00:30:07]>> There's a guy who There's a guy I know, popular guy.

[00:30:12]Um I won't say his name, but his wife his mom is like dead. His mom his mom told him that I know that when the guy was around, you didn't have lunch with him on Sunday.

[00:30:23]But I can't depend your life on that cuz he was in church.

[00:30:27]It might sound funny, but it breaks you, man.

[00:30:31]From listening to you guys, it is good that fathers train their sons. That's all that's what I'm hearing. It's not bad if your father can't train his son, not your pastor.

[00:30:41]Not your pastor.

[00:30:42]>> At the master >> of the school.

[00:30:44]Not your your Imam or I don't know what religions, but a father.

[00:30:48]>> I'm an available.

[00:30:50]That's another question.

[00:30:51]>> So, we have to >> That's a new that's a new discussion.

[00:30:56]>> So, we have to have this conversations.

[00:30:58]Number one number two if men needs must be available, how will men help us with finances, too?

[00:31:03]>> Let me ask this.

[00:31:07]>> [laughter] [screaming] [laughter] >> Um to all of you guys, if leadership exists without shared responsibility then who then absorbs that weight?

[00:31:29]Because he's asking, "Okay, if you want me to be available can you bring in some other money or some level of support?" Who then between the partners absorbs the weight?

[00:31:41]>> To be honest I don't see struggles.

[00:31:44]It's not yeah. It's not cheap.

[00:31:46]In a fairy tale life the man needs provide 100% and the woman be baby girl.

[00:31:53]fairy tale life. reality.

[00:31:57]As she said that I think that's why a lot of women I think [snorts] that's why a lot of women are not married today is that they are stuck in the fairy tale.

[00:32:06]>> That's true.

[00:32:07]>> Oh my god, I want my man to have this duplex and provide for us 100% and I'm ready to provide See, the honest truth is that the way the world is right now first of all we're on the highest inflation ever.

[00:32:18]>> Not realistic.

[00:32:20]>> When we are being realistic, right? No one person, right? Can carry the financial burden of a family.

[00:32:27]But will I love for my husband to carry 100%?

[00:32:30]Taking day.

[00:32:31]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:32:32]>> What the truth of the matter is that the truth of the matter is that no one person can take the financial burden right now with the way the world is today. What if you are not even in Nigeria? Nigeria is is even easier to do it in Nigeria. Imagine you are abroad.

[00:32:45]So who So between you and you cannot afford to pay a chef abroad. In Nigeria I can afford to pay a chef at home.

[00:32:51]>> You know what you should do all those things? You know what you should do for me? Can you tell men what we can do that even if you can't take the you can't lead financially, what else should we learn to lead on that will help them all?

[00:33:06]>> Hmm.

[00:33:07]Me personally, I think I have like different things I believe in my family and I but I think this relates specifically to your strengths and the kind of relationship. For her she mentioned that in her family she is the more financially like she's the person that can manage finances better.

[00:33:21]So what? There are different things that family needs. One, financial management.

[00:33:25]If a family needs it, if the man can lead in that, that's great. If not, he should not be scared to move it to the person that can do it. For example, if me I am a banker in a in a in a marriage and my husband is maybe an artist and I know that financially I am the one that is like move it to her. There is financial management, there is spiritual management.

[00:33:47]How can you make sure that the family is spiritually backed?

[00:33:52]There is also the in the area of family time. How do we ensure that there is bonding and there is love in the family?

[00:33:59]You can be the one to say okay, once a month we have to do this for family bonding.

[00:34:04]There is also in the side of making sure that your wife feels needed every time.

[00:34:12]Not every time, once a week. You can If you can even play once a week and okay, how do I make sure this man is feeling feels needed? Okay, do I do like and tell someone to cook and then spend time with her and do some like those things will make me know that my man then I'm like yeah, that financial management is very important because financial management is not just oh how to spend money. It is how do we meet our goal? In the next 3 years we want to buy a house.

[00:34:35]Oh yeah, babe, sit down. This is your income. This is my income. We want to buy a house, we need to save. You you need to save 30% of your income. Me I need to save 20% of my income. Let's put it inside this high yield mutual funds or whatever whatever. So it's not just spending money. It is like we have a goal that this family there's a purpose for every marriage, right? Our purpose me I don't know the purpose for my own own marriage. The purpose for every marriage is not just to make money, it's not just to have children. There are things there is something that brought two of you together. When you find the purpose you as leader should be the one that will say okay, this is our general objective and vision. How do we meet it?

[00:35:10]Both of you will sit down, but you you are the one leading us getting to that goal. It doesn't have to be just money.

[00:35:14]>> Mhm. I guess so for me.

[00:35:17]For me I I mean she just mentioned a whole lot of what I would have said.

[00:35:21]Men should be humble enough to listen.

[00:35:26]A lot of men here, mhm, but they don't listen.

[00:35:30]It took us 8 years to teach my husband the art of listening.

[00:35:36]>> Almost sugar right? You mean it took 8 years to learn?

[00:35:38]>> [laughter] >> How do you know?

[00:35:42]>> So 8 years is over. 8 YEARS IS OVER.

[00:35:53]>> 8 YEARS IS OVER.

[00:35:54]OH MY GOODNESS, IT'S 8 YEARS cuz I'm talking and he's like, yeah, okay, okay.

[00:36:00]And the next time what did you say?

[00:36:02]>> Mhm.

[00:36:03]>> Hello, you know so men hear, but they don't listen. Thank God these days I can really say that I married a very secured man. But it took us a journey.

[00:36:13]>> Mhm.

[00:36:13]>> It took us a journey where I would be the one to travel and you know, he's doing it with joy, but you know sometimes when I I say something he's like, oh, is it because is it because and I say no, it's not because. It's because I also talk.

[00:36:27]It's because I have to talk. It's because I have to be expressive. But thankfully, we are where we had the where those things don't even matter. If I want to talk now, I say, "You better talk because I know that your opinion counts." And the therapist and the woman that will tell us what to do. You know, so when men get to that point where they listen, they're submitting because it's also scriptural that we submit to one another. There's a place where it's the woman that would be able to tell you what to do. If all of those things are in place, I think men are amazing homemakers as well.

[00:36:55]>> Mhm.

[00:36:56]>> Yes, cuz men like to impress their children. So, they So, children even love it better when they're with daddies because daddy will do extra for them just to make them not to miss mommy. We know what you guys are doing.

[00:37:09]>> So >> So, it's it's not a big deal for them to do all of those things. But if they understand that that place of listening and being submissive, they will know that they are not in competition in any way.

[00:37:19]>> Yeah.

[00:37:20]>> It's the woman.

[00:37:21]>> Yeah.

[00:37:22]>> I'll say that what honestly I've met met kind of men.

[00:37:26]>> Mhm.

[00:37:27]>> I agree.

[00:37:28]>> Most most men >> That's where I agree.

[00:37:30]>> And most wives become unkind in marriage because there's pressure and men are sometimes unkindness. And that's why >> Men make kind of >> And I just just be kind to your husband.

[00:37:43]Because I understand that he's not meeting the goals. He's not seeing But if you're kind to him >> Ah, it will go around.

[00:37:53]>> True. It's just care.

[00:37:54]Kindness Kindness helps men.

[00:37:57]>> Mhm.

[00:37:58]>> Yes.

[00:37:58]>> So, but I think you men are powerful.

[00:38:01]>> Have you cried before?

[00:38:02]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:38:03]>> Okay.

[00:38:03]>> I cried yesterday.

[00:38:04]>> Oh.

[00:38:06]>> But what I will say is I Oladokun is not >> Mhm.

[00:38:09]>> is not the ideal man.

[00:38:11]>> Mhm.

[00:38:11]>> He's a kind of man, >> Mhm.

[00:38:13]>> but he must be balanced.

[00:38:14]>> Yeah.

[00:38:15]>> Because you what what I what I fear the most and I've seen it with my guys that they marry an odogu but emotionally attached to somebody else.

[00:38:28]>> Mhm.

[00:38:29]>> Mhm.

[00:38:30]>> That's >> Okay, that's another one. I've gotten to another realm of something.

[00:38:33]>> They are married to an odogu that is provided >> a provider >> that but they are emotionally attached to somebody.

[00:38:42]>> So you need balance.

[00:38:44]>> No, that's not even balance. That's That's what >> They might because they like the person. They might because >> That wasn't the point.

[00:38:51]>> want to know I I I also think that in marriage you marry many people.

[00:38:59]I've changed a lot for the better.

[00:39:01]>> Fair.

[00:39:02]>> You You change. You can marry as friends and then you also become odogu.

[00:39:07]And so there's a lot of belly bridge walk in marriage like belly bridge I I mean it.

[00:39:13]>> Intentional.

[00:39:14]>> Intentional. There's one of my ex-moms he splits and he was telling me that at some point he was begging his wife to to come with his new friends and his new meetings but she was like nah.

[00:39:26]And it was in that circle he broke because he was with them in London going to France and San Francisco blah blah blah and he broke. So people change in marriage. Not change for better or good, just change.

[00:39:39]>> change change change.

[00:39:41]>> More wealth parenting changes you Yeah, that's that. And it's something we need to understand that sometimes your hormones just do you guys somehow You are hormonal people.

[00:39:52]>> Yeah.

[00:39:53]>> And and and with that yeah, you are hormonal. And if you are hormonal, you have to also trust that.

[00:40:00]Your emotions can be >> Mhm.

[00:40:02]>> hormonal.

[00:40:03]>> What about the grace?

[00:40:05]Because there are some things that are not You can't control. For example, I can just start crying while some days to my period or be cranky and then I figure out oh my god, my period is tomorrow. It happens. It's real. Why can't you give me grace and say this babe is more cranky than usual? Oh, baby, your period is coming. Get out.

[00:40:23]>> It is.

[00:40:25]At the 80 yard line.

[00:40:26]>> [laughter] >> But I hear you.

[00:40:30]But I hear you. But I hear you. So, I I I hear you. So, these are things that we have to learn.

[00:40:34]We have to learn.

[00:40:37]>> So, I will say as we close up here, what advice will you give to someone watching? You know, maybe the younger generation or someone that wants to experience relationship and figure out, okay, how do we want to lead our family, whether it's traditional or modern and things like that. What What advice would you give them to to to have something successful in their own way?

[00:41:00]>> I'll I'll say I'll say this. Don't Don't Don't focus on on the time traditional modern Don't Don't on the time on the time um time ecosystem. Focus on the present.

[00:41:15]Focus on who the person is in front of you and what you can build together.

[00:41:20]Because I think that more than ever Now, we We For those who are Christians, Muslims, you can use a lot of things to to train your But I think more than ever you must you must write your own rules.

[00:41:36]>> Yeah.

[00:41:37]>> Now, but in writing your rules, a friend of mine >> [clears throat] >> told me, he said, "Knowledge is an ocean.

[00:41:43]Wisdom is the bucket on how you used to appropriate it."

[00:41:49]I love rules in my house.

[00:41:53]And my my mom can never know about us.

[00:41:56]And my dad.

[00:41:57]>> My advice will be specifically to women.

[00:42:00]I know we all want something to go.

[00:42:02]But the truth of matter is especially if you're marrying into generational wealth. If you you're not yourself and not in generational wealth, forget about that. But if you are marrying into a such a marriage in traditional world, just know that in my days up to date can be done tomorrow. So, if you focus on traditional rules as per "Oh my god, the man must provide 100%." And then he's providing 100% for maybe the first 5 years and another time he cannot provide, you need to know that that's is why you are there. That's why I say partnership. So, two of you have to come together to make it work. So, don't get stuck on "Oh, this is what I believe marriage should be like. My family, my dad provided all the time." Which you don't know because you were not in behind the rooms with them. I don't know where your dad was having and your mom had to. So, just figure out what works for you and know that life is in stages and anytime there's need for you to step in financially, don't feel ashamed about it. That is your role as a partner and as a helpmate.

[00:43:04]>> Okay, so three things. Number one is if you were to be um the other sex, that to be the other gender, can you marry you?

[00:43:14]And um I I get to see it with a lot of about-to-marry and it breaks my heart because I see marriages that are already meant for doom.

[00:43:25]>> Before learning as rubbish.

[00:43:29]I see a lot of ones, you know, at that point is always very hard to change anything.

[00:43:36]So, we just help them to manage themselves.

[00:43:39]But, I would have preferred that people work on themselves to be all before trying to even get into a relationship. Because when an old man comes together with an old woman, there's awesomeness in the all.

[00:43:53]No one is No man is being threatened by the other woman's wealth or by status.

[00:43:58]And the woman is not also threatened by whatever the man is doing because she knows her identity, she knows her worth, and she knows who she is.

[00:44:10]>> [music] >> You see, across Africa, men are taught to carry everything. Women are taught to sacrifice everything, and both are told, "This is love." But, equity doesn't erase culture. It asks whether our traditions still serve the people living inside them. When women are empowered, families don't collapse, they expand.

[00:44:35]When men are supported, leadership doesn't weaken, it deepens. And when partnership replaces power, homes become places of safety, not hierarchy.

[00:44:45]The man may be called the head, but a home survives through balance, through trust, and shared humanity. This is unspoken.

[00:44:56]>> [music]