How Kenya Will Benefit From Hosting Africa Forward Summit As First Anglophone Country-Obilo Ng'ong'o

Added: 2026-05-18

[00:00:00]In studio this particular hour we want to talk about how Kenya will benefit from the Africa forward summit. Uh and with us in the studio is the head of Pedagogi at Alon Fr in Nairobi that is Oilo.

[00:00:24]Yeah.

[00:00:25]I cannot say anything [laughter] because [laughter] um forefront of my conversation.

[00:00:43][laughter] Um maybe just explain to us um cuz I I've been to Alons so many times. At one point when I was in primary, I even studied French for a few weeks. I can't even remember how long it was, but I it wasn't long. It was one of those during the holidays In a nutshell, uh, Alon Fon says is a space where people of different cultures come and meet and talk uh about uh everything. It's a space where we encourage people from different walks of life to just be in a space where you're relaxed, a space that is free and uh where you can meet new people, learn new cultures, learn new things. and uh having that space uh we use it in a way that >> we can like I'm saying in a relaxed manner then we can offer activities where people can meet and exchange so first of all alonses is a cultural center so we have a lot of cultural activities whether it's concerts uh exhibitions art exhibitions theater plays and so on and so forth I think it's the the most known cultural center in Nairobi it's you [clears throat] and then there's go institute the one for the Germans. And you're right cuz I've been there. I've watched several plays there. I have personally staged a play there. I've also we pre the the first first days the first seasons of the XYZ show. I don't know if you're aware.

[00:02:19]>> We used to do the premieres at Alons.

[00:02:22]>> At Alons F I have experienced Alons in very many ways >> and a lot of great artists and great acts have been born at Alons Fes. Uh the very first shoot of church life was done at Alon Swanson. Alons is the birthplace of groups like Saisi Soul and Elani.

[00:02:41]Those are kids who used to sit in the corridors actually in the parking lot and they had a group on Facebook called Alons Frances parking lot musicians.

[00:02:48]>> So you would sit there and play your guitar and somebody else starts singing and all of a sudden you formed a group and people coming out of there with groups. There are so many groups and apart from just being a space where people are meeting Alons Fes actually sponsors those artists. So there are many groups if you remember UNASI for example BBC next big thing life happened everybody in their own directions some took music some are doing amazing things you know Erico for example is running um a center in Kioangi where he brings the kids from [clears throat] you know Karioangi together during weekends just teach them skills Davisa is now in France he's a producer uh we have uh Dennis um Inyani who's in Europe also singing. So every everybody went their own route. But als is that one space where you knew for those of us you grew up in the '9s or 2000s, you know that if I'm an artist, I have to be at Alon Fes.

[00:03:45]>> Um Alon Fron says also when I was again still growing up as a teenager.

[00:03:50]>> I used to go there on on on when I'm I'm in town and I have nowhere else to go. I used to come and chill there wait for chicks [laughter] and I would say [laughter] that's the other good thing is is blessed with beautiful people.

[00:04:05][laughter] It's it's it's one of those places where it's ritualistic. You you need to go through alons after high school for example you need as you come from high school I tell kids you're coming from high school don't stress yourself right now you just need to acquire skills that will help you in the future. So do driving, do computer, do a foreign language, do French. But also it offers them a space where they can come and chill and meet people from elsewhere. So like I was saying, Alons Frances first of all is a cultural center where people come to experience culture, not culture just from outside, but also culture from Kenya. And actually being a not for-p profofit local organization, all the money that Alian makes at the end of the year is used to sponsor local artistic activities and not only in Nairobi, it has been done all over the country. So if you go to Donga Donga Hill Resort in Kisumu, >> yes, Donga Hill Resort is the most vibrant cultural center in Kisumu right now. And all the music system has been sponsored by a project with Alon spons.

[00:05:03]The players theater in Nakuru, the same thing. If you go to Mama Grace Onyango Cultural Center in Kisumu, the building was renovated by um FD but also houses Alon Fes. Okay. And uh lately we have contributed a studio a recording studio uh to the center. So you got Mombasa, Swahili port. So it's it's various spaces and Alon is not just what we are seeing in Nairobi.

[00:05:28]>> Yes.

[00:05:29]>> Alons is a whole network about 830 of them in the world and their vocation is the same is to be spaces uh where people can come and have social and cultural dialogues in a free manner. They are all a political and um secular.

[00:05:45]discussion, we don't discuss politics.

[00:05:47]It's a space where you can come and express your ideas without being >> also there to facilitate language.

[00:06:01]>> And uh the one language that we facilitate the most, the one we are known for is a French language. But what people don't know is that also for foreigners coming into the country, we do offer English and kiswahili classes.

[00:06:12]>> And >> I didn't know that. Yeah, we do on request of course. All right. Um and then we also allowed to offer any other local language. So if you go to Sumu today and you say you want to learn the luo, they will look for a teacher and offer you the luon in they will teach you kalenin and whatever the language you want from that area. If you go to Mombasa, they're big on kisili classes.

[00:06:34]>> Okay.

[00:06:35]>> So whatever if you go to kala is the same thing. Then they're teaching their local languages. Luganda.

[00:06:41]>> Yes. Yes. So whichever whichever country you go to you meet in Alian Fes they will be offering French of course >> and a local language >> and local languages >> not just one.

[00:06:49]>> Okay.

[00:06:49]>> You know what is interesting this is peculiar interesting not interesting peculiar haha.

[00:06:57]>> The in the previous century one of the things that Perry was known for it was the bastion where people who sought artistic expression freedom came to. If you were a black person in America >> and you had difficulties, >> you went to Perry.

[00:07:15]>> If you are from Latin America and you had problems, you came to Perry. If you're in the Asian subcontinent, everybody came to Pere because that was the place where there was, if I may use the term maximum expression of freedom that was allowed and it was a bastion and there are very many people known worldwide who actually grew their trade and became known. Whether you're a writer, you are a singer, >> that is where people came. The thing I find even more fascinating, the people who actually started Alons, you're talking about 143 years ago.

[00:07:48]>> Yes.

[00:07:49]>> What?

[00:07:49]>> 4033.

[00:07:50]>> Okay.

[00:07:51]>> You read a guy called Louie Ptor.

[00:07:53]>> Yes, I have.

[00:07:54]>> Uhhuh. Have you heard of a guy called Jules V?

[00:07:57]>> No.

[00:07:57]>> I'm not trying to imitate a writer brother who saw me, >> but I haven't. Okay. You know what I have?

[00:08:04]>> That's what I want you to say.

[00:08:05][laughter] a guy called Ferdinand Deles.

[00:08:09]>> When you talk about the SW canal, no sorry the the in Egypt >> canal canal.

[00:08:18]>> Yes.

[00:08:19]>> You know, my mind went to the Americas.

[00:08:20]>> It's okay.

[00:08:21]>> Canal.

[00:08:22]>> Yeah.

[00:08:23]>> His name comes up.

[00:08:24]>> Okay. When you talk about Ran Armand, [clears throat] >> these are French men who are very well known.

[00:08:30]>> Yes.

[00:08:31]>> And each in a separate field. So you I often wonder what got these guys together to want to form this cultural phenomenon.

[00:08:39]>> M >> which is in 131 countries.

[00:08:42]>> Yes.

[00:08:43]>> And is going.

[00:08:45]>> It's a good question and I like it because for a very long time and up until now I always thought Alons is uh an extension of the French embassy and I thought the Kenyan one is the only one.

[00:08:58]>> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Yes. But now you tell me that you're in all these countries and um it is not necessarily an extension of the French embassy but now I get even to learn of its history and the folks who came up uh and gave us alon forces as we know it >> as this this expression you must know it is French or contrh it has it has links French embassies around the world because of the link we have with France um as it is explaining very nicely It was born of scientists, writers, philosophers who were traveling the world ambassadors I mean >> and everywhere they went people were interested to know about Pari and you can imagine what Perry represented back then it was it was um just the mention of Perry and France it was very romantic in people's heads city of life >> people needed to go to Par you you had to go to at some point >> people still want to go to Pari >> actually the tour is the most visited monument in the entire world >> yeah people once in a lifetime you to have gone to FL.

[00:10:00]>> It's very a very imposing structure. The first time I went there, I was very confused. I like this is what people travel to come. [laughter] >> It's very romantic in your head. When you get there, of course, looks a bit different.

[00:10:10]>> Yeah. But I like it's very imposing and it's very big, but it's a very uh beautiful place to be at. Um and being in France, France is even today a country that celebrates culture. Uh you could go and uh visit France. you don't have accommodation and uh you go to an app called Couch Surfing and you go to somebody's house. They accept you to go >> and uh all you need to give them in return is stories from your country. A piece leave them with a piece of your culture.

[00:10:36]>> These are random people you just walk into.

[00:10:39]>> Of course, you have to be in the app first of all. Yeah. Just to make sure it's security wise. But someone is willing to get paid with stories from your country. They give you a place to sleep, share a piece of your culture.

[00:10:49]And when we travel and and that is now the beauty of the relationship that comes out of alian Frances being in several countries is that apart from the fact that we're receiving pieces of culture from France, we also exporting a lot of our culture.

[00:11:03]>> I've talked about Dennis from Unasi who's now in France. People like Akinaria Sego now moved to France completely. These are people who are carrying pieces of our culture. There are also people who benefited from having some contact with the French culture before now they wanted to go and wherever they're going they're exporting pieces of our culture.

[00:11:23]>> Yeah.

[00:11:23]>> You know what is interesting Paul is if you look at the history of France >> and you focus your attention to >> I even know of a place called the Shams >> I've never been to France but I know >> and it's important to it's mentioned in the same places the TUFL.

[00:11:39]>> Okay. Now when I say melting pot, I am talking about people from right across the globe.

[00:11:48]>> Mhm.

[00:11:49]>> Wanting to go to this place and ending up there. There are those who say that the pool was it was seen as the place where modernday democracy was actually born. It is seen that way.

[00:12:02]>> Okay.

[00:12:03]>> Mhm. But of even greater significance in my mind if I think of it is I look at the French understanding of colonialism and what it is that was presented to the African countries at independence.

[00:12:17]>> Do you [clears throat] want independence on your own or do you want independence as part of France?

[00:12:23]>> There is no colonial power that offered the countries that colonized to be part of their country. Now >> this is a discussion that I'm having because I've removed politics from it.

[00:12:34]When you bring politics into it, it becomes a completely different matter.

[00:12:38]>> The thinking behind it, the very few countries who have had a president who stayed, left and was called back, that guy I mentioned before, >> with whom we share name.

[00:12:48]>> Yes, that one. [laughter] >> Shall the good.

[00:12:51]>> Yes. Exactly. Okay. If you look at the things he did and the thinking he had that was that man was way ahead of his time way way way way ahead of his time from the time of second world war how he he formed the republic akata mawidan algeria kudisha what am I saying you need to go into the details of understanding the mentality and the mindset that was the leadership of France then and then you need to compare it with today because it's a different reality that >> is now being looked at >> and what it is that was purpose and what they thought might work and what eventually came about as a result of whatever it is that they did. Now that the French cultural center exists again poses now a third question in my mind.

[00:13:38]How did the French get this idea of alons so right >> because it is powerful >> and it sells France in the best light possible. [clears throat] >> But even as I as the question what comes to my mind there's no politics involved.

[00:13:56]>> Yeah.

[00:13:56]>> If there's politics involved we'd be talking about a completely different thing.

[00:13:59]>> Yes. Because think of any country that you have in the world.

[00:14:04]>> Yes, >> the British were with us for a long time and they had the British council >> but they have never been able to achieve what the French did. The Germans that go to institute have never achieved what they've done. The Italians have never done that. The other colonizing nations like the Netherlands, I don't even think they tried. M >> the uh Spaniards, Portuguese >> is is >> Yes. It's best I say what I want to say with my hand. [laughter] But but as as you mentioned them >> um I I I'm happy that Alian says um has had the success it's had in Kenya and especially because of the values you're talking about and uh without going to politics because the the work I mean I cannot be in politics. uh but there's that spirit of as you're saying h become part of us >> and uh that is one thing that the French have a lot >> is that anything you're participating in you're part of us >> it's not that like you're a visitor so if you're coming to Alons Fes the Kenyans are very much part of it and just to come back to what you're saying yes >> and Alon Fes is a local initiative it's not done by the French >> so for example in Kisumu right now they just got their charter different recently um in Kisumu that was an effort by the governor Peter Yangyongo who's a huge supporter of culture and when he was an MP he used to spend a lot of his time at Alon Fes watching each and every play that would be stage there and when he heard that the teachers of French and the and the artists in Kisumu were crying because Alon was closed a long time ago he said what do you want what do you need and called ambassador who's an interesting fellow I hope you heard him yesterday speaking fully in Kisahi >> yes I have I've actually met him um oneon Yeah, >> he's a great guy.

[00:15:54]>> Yeah. And his teacher is a funny person.

[00:15:56]He's teaching him sh also. So sometimes he ch sentences. Anyway, [laughter] >> so um so they met in Kisumu and they like what do we do for the community that is here? And under the stewardship of Mr. Peter Weno who is the principal Maseno school and some lecturers from Maseno Maseno University and some artists in Kisumu they decided to come together and form a trust to be able to bring forward alian sponsors >> and it's a volunteer basis. So one gentleman Jagpal I'm talking about the owner of Donga Hill Resort he also got into it and he was like you know we need culture in Kisumu so what do we do? So they came together and uh the governor decided to give them a place and support for them to start their frontont doesn't depend on the French embassy [clears throat] whether it's open it's closed it is their own initiative and that is the same thing the one in um in Mombasa has been there for 70 years the one in eldor has been there since 2002 and it was also a personal initiative actually a one a oneman at the time so right now there are other people coming up for example there's a lot of interest coming from it with the the athletes.

[00:17:02]>> There's a very nice program that was done there by the French embassy with the help of Alons Fes also to train coaches >> uh to give professional training to coaches of athletism because a lot of times we have retired athletes becoming coaches not necessarily because they were technically trained to coach but because of the experience that they have but right now there's a program by the French uh the French embassy and the French government uh to take these coaches to France for professional training. Okay.

[00:17:31]>> And this was born out of the friendship.

[00:17:33]I'm talking about the exchange in culture because the time we had Olympics in France, there's a city that hosted Kenyans and the relationship they had with Kenyan athletes was so beautiful.

[00:17:42]They got stuck on the Kenyans. They hosted many people but they got stuck on the Kenyans and this city is called Miamas.

[00:17:48]>> Okay. And at the end of it like why don't we develop this friendship further and they agreed and last year we had the mayor of Miramas and the mayors of the towns around Mamas coming to E10 >> and the governor of Elgo Marakquet hosted us there and uh they now discussed what do we do together as friends and that is where this idea of training the coaches came in the idea of opening a sports hospital facility came in and also a sports stadium which are being done In gut as we speak and the coaches went to France last year they now speak good French they really yeah >> how long does it take to to speak good French like you're calling it >> you did about 600 hours of training uh so for them they had the benefit they did about 120 hours then travel to France immediately after so they had a lot of practice while they were there and these coaches we're talking about primary school teachers secondary school teachers and also professional coaches so it's it's having quite an influence [clears throat] >> generally around the 10 area Okay.

[00:18:47]>> Or county.

[00:18:49]>> That is very good. Perhaps [laughter] when we get the time I can go to you called that place. What?

[00:18:56]>> Miramas. [laughter] >> That is a place I want to go.

[00:18:59]>> Miramas and Yeah. And like I'm saying it's that that that that friendship and that exchange of culture is very important. Learning a language does not come without learning someone's culture.

[00:19:08][snorts] Uh in 2024 we were called suddenly and told you know we have 600 police officers going to Heidi.

[00:19:15]>> Yes. Yes, >> they don't speak French. What can you do about it? And it took us I think only 3 weeks to come up with a full program which doesn't exist a curriculum on training police officers to go for a peacekeeping or peace support mission.

[00:19:28]>> And the next problem we were facing is that people speak French there but they also speak another form what you call the pigeon of French which is Kayol >> and Kayle is different from every island you go to the different islands starting from right here in the Indian Ocean. We have uh we have uh reunion islands, we have uh kamoros, we have seell, you have some form of creole that is spoken in all those islands. So we had to ship in trainers of creole of hishian creole, not just any creole. So it was not easy finding teachers of that language. Some of them came from sagal, Cameroon and um they were able to share a lot about their culture. Not necessarily just the language is the bit of the culture you're learning. You're learning Creole.

[00:20:09]You will not speak it fluently, but once you've learned the culture, you know why they say things this way or that way.

[00:20:15]And our officers did a wonderful job.

[00:20:17]>> They learn they learned that language.

[00:20:18]>> They learned the language. They learned French and they learned Crayola at the same time.

[00:20:22]>> Where?

[00:20:22]>> Yeah. It wasn't easy. We were in Ambakasi for 6 weeks. It was intense.

[00:20:27]And they went there. They from the experience they had, they they were loved despite the politics that is coming out. There must be something negative after after peace.

[00:20:36]>> It's it's a Yeah.

[00:20:37]>> Yeah. But when they as they were coming out, we could see photos of people trying to block them not to leave the city of Porance uh because they had actually stabilized the country.

[00:20:48]>> Uh sorry, port is called what in French?

[00:20:50]>> Porance or PR, [laughter] >> you need you need like $1,200 for this language. No, >> what I was asking, of course, this is in humor.

[00:21:01]>> Yeah. while you're training these wonderful uh security personnel, >> did they ask for you to translate for them some of the language they use when they're speaking to Kenyans like where >> but actually when I'm talking when I'm talking about it's interesting cuz when I'm talking about tailor made it means that's exactly what you're going to teach them >> because what is the police going to do initi they're [laughter] not going to they're not going to restaurants they're going to tell people come here stop lie down >> so [laughter] that Exactly. That's why we had to come up with a different curriculum >> and including the guys in the guys in the guys in E10, we were not going to teach them how to bake. We were going to teach them that very um delicious bread. [laughter] I can't help it. This is the only time I can do [laughter] this. I can't speak French to anyone.

[00:22:01]Another French accent. Our students, our students really laugh cuz when I go to class, I tell them the first thing you need to do is to stop being serious.

[00:22:07]Just smile >> and learn French in a very relaxed atmosphere. So, as much fun as you want to have, have with it because language is learned a lot through h if you want to learn a language, the best place to start [clears throat] >> is uh funny words and bad words.

[00:22:24]>> Because when [laughter] you learn bad words, you have purpose.

[00:22:27]>> Yeah.

[00:22:28]>> To use the bad words.

[00:22:30]was asking, "Did you teach them how to these cops now, the police, and did you teach them how to say um some of the things that they tell us in Kenya?

[00:22:37][laughter] [laughter] >> [laughter] [laughter] >> But yeah, I mean uh and and it's interesting. So you you did this thing that you did for them. How long did it take you to train them the police?

[00:23:04]>> Um we were doing them in 6 weeks. They were coming in three different batches.

[00:23:09]We did it in in in 6 weeks. Uh it wasn't easy. first of all coming up with that curriculum as you're saying >> specifically words that they're going to use in our peace support operation [snorts and clears throat] and uh we appreciate first of all that we haven't had any police peacekeeping missions so we didn't even have >> material or uh you know any experience to go by so we engaged a very nice French lady she's called Gwen Gwen is married in Kenya so she's she's muen >> [laughter] >> So we engaged Gwen and Gwen helped us to come up with a curriculum that really took into account what exactly they were going to do. And uh it was so beautiful that this curriculum was now adopted for all the countries that were contributing forces. There were nine countries contributing forces to uh this peacekeeping mission. And it's the same curriculum they're using today even after the expiry of that mandate of those forces. We have a new force going in an anti-gang force spearheaded by Chad the government of police from Chad and even them they're using the same curriculum that he came up with here and that [snorts] we kept improving from the experience that we having with the policemen and like I was saying I'm pulling parallels with what we did in E10. In E10 we had to come up with a curriculum for sports. Yes.

[00:24:25]>> Because you're talking about people are just going to do to do mainly sports. Of course you have the shopping bit but mostly it's about what do we call a study what you call an athlete. what do we call how do you give instructions and we have to adapt right now we are training uh young doctors who want to go into franophhone countries for example not giving them medical training >> yeah I mean language training >> I know I know >> language training but again we have to custom make it so that it is language that they can use in hospitals >> and there's this interesting club at University of Nairobi it's existed for a long time it's called there's a domed which is the franophhone association of medicine students or medical students >> and uh it's been there since I think late '90s and those are students who love French and the benefits they've had is there's a time I remember some of them got internships in West Africa I forget which country and we were laughing saying hey you guys you've made it while you're going to treat a bowler on the other side [laughter] >> guys are here treating malaria >> so imagine that in terms of international experience foreign experience would have gotten if you're just uh you know uh locally here and maybe restrained a bit by your lack of knowledge of international language.

[00:25:48]Okay.

[00:25:48]>> Okay. That body at the university what's it called again in French a [laughter] Somebody said you could be insulted in French and you'll be happy.

[00:26:06]>> One of yours. [laughter] >> Let me let me give you a fun fact.

[00:26:10]>> H you you've been to a room night and and and guys are there dancing and closing their eyes, >> you know. But if you ask them what that song is saying, they don't know.

[00:26:20]>> You could be closing your eyes to a song singing about agriculture. [laughter] >> It's true. And pesticides.

[00:26:25]>> It's true. But the moment they say >> [laughter] >> I I'll give you one. I used to love this song as a kid.

[00:26:34]>> Yeah.

[00:26:41]>> Right.

[00:26:44]Yeah.

[00:26:46]I love it. Where you come from? Yes.

[00:26:48]>> Yes. [laughter] Now >> once I knew French and I started thinking what what is this song about?

[00:26:54]Let me listen properly.

[00:26:55]>> So first of all the abacost when I learned what the abacost was. It's that suit that ends here.

[00:27:01]>> Counter suit.

[00:27:01]>> That is the abacost. Yes. Some sort of counter suit. So that is the abacost. So it's not counter. It's like a suit like this one at which ends here. The counter one has pockets like a tour guide. Yeah.

[00:27:13]Now this one, sorry. [laughter] >> This one is just a suit which ends around here.

[00:27:18]>> Yes.

[00:27:19]>> And then I listen to the entire song.

[00:27:20]The entire song is a dedication to a shop where you buy clothes. It's actually a big advert for a song called Fabris. Fabris magaz guys are closing their eyes and holding on to people of opposite gender and falling in love to the advert of a shop.

[00:27:44]So you you you need to at least [laughter] you need to at least be exposed to some of these languages to know what you're singing, what you're dancing to. And it's beautiful when now you know the language. you enjoy the song much more.

[00:27:58]>> That's true.

[00:27:59]>> Those songs seems to have been topical, especially the own.

[00:28:04]They're topical. He's he sung about HIV.

[00:28:08][clears throat] >> He sang about the Volkswagen.

[00:28:10]>> He he sang about things which >> he was passionate about. Yes.

[00:28:14]>> Well, yes. And then he also sang about he sang songs about President Moubu and Yeah. Other song about him and didn't say very nice things about Moubu. M >> some of the songs were banned but yes they s topical issues but lyrics >> the music itself you actually believed you sing and even if you didn't understand it didn't matter >> it sound nice let me say it today it still doesn't matter I have no idea what they're saying >> but that was my point is that the language itself is beautiful you you there's there's a meme we're looking at somebody robbing a band give me all your money and everyone like call the police like Please, [laughter] you see, and they're like, "Wow, France, so nice to take all our money, [laughter] sh um France is in Kenya for this weekend.

[00:29:07]>> We have this cooperation going on, of course, we uh understand a lot of conversations will take place. Kenya [snorts] and France have signed this 150 billion uh deal to ensure that um some of these things will be achieved going forward." And one thing I I was asking myself is, you know, sometimes there are things that happen and you're not even sure whether you're dreaming because it sounds very good.

[00:29:32]>> It's almost too good to be true.

[00:29:34]>> What do you think about this particular cooperation between uh France and Kenya for Africa?

[00:29:40]>> Um without going into politics. Yes. Um [laughter] >> we we'll bring a politician for that.

[00:29:47]the political will come forward >> and we we'll bring uh the political person in the embassy to come yes to come and discuss that now um I'm seeing I'm seeing very many benefits first of all for us uh the first benefit is a benefit for the entire continent I would say uh because I think we are moving from a position where this conversation would be about aid and what can you do for us and we are moving towards a position of what can we do together how can we benefit benefit from each other's uh you know positions. We have uh geopolitics is changing today. What the relationships we had with the west are not the same as uh as what we having right now. We are having moments where Europe needs Africa in a different way and I think that is where our conversation is going as a country. It's how can we benefit from each other being in the cultural space that is exactly what we stand for is what can we exchange. So I think with this particular um summit coming up, Kenya has benefited first of all as being the first angophone country to have this conversation happening in its own country.

[00:30:55]>> And uh secondly, by bringing in all these heads of state, we stand to benefit not just from France but also from other agreements that we make with the other countries. I know for example, we had yesterday that we'll now open an embassy in K Divoir. Wow. And for those who travel to West Africa, you know, it can be tricky sometimes getting into those countries in terms of the structures that are there and agreements that are there with Kenya. So if we can form friendships uh with these other countries that are coming also, it's a benefit. So first of all, you have the benefit of this conference happening in Kenya. It's big and I think it's the biggest event we've had since uh our president came to power that we are having about I think between to 30 heads of state coming in uh for this for these two days. Uh secondly, we are engaging a partner who has not traditionally been the biggest uh partner I would say for Kenya. We've had UK, we've had US, we had Germany, we've had China, even Italy.

[00:31:58]>> But France, France, they here. You know, you you you don't see them, but you see them. How would you how would you say that in French?

[00:32:13]Because you can see them in in Mo's government. All all government vehicles were >> Yes, they were. [laughter] They were 504s.

[00:32:22]is a C flying squad.

[00:32:25]>> Yes.

[00:32:26]>> I owned 40 504 and 505 myself.

[00:32:30]>> And the vehicles that used to go to your village were pi.

[00:32:33]>> Well, it started with RVP river pujo then Lombasa Pujo services then Pes came later.

[00:32:39]>> Okay.

[00:32:40]>> But uh those were beautiful durable cars. When it rained the doors were tricky.

[00:32:47]>> The doors somewhat didn't open easily when it rained. I don't know what it is.

[00:32:49]But the car itself >> Yeah. Man, I've never come across something more durable than that. You have confused. You've confused city.

[00:32:57]You've gone to cars. [laughter] Those cars I have to speak about something I don't know.

[00:33:05]>> Yes. I you know cars which you drive and you hand over.

[00:33:09]>> Yes.

[00:33:10]>> You don't even want to sell, you hand over because you realize you're not going to get the price that >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> And you still see those vehicles on the road. Chief, even today the 504 is still very much on the road. So I was talking about >> the French that we were seeing and not seeing at the same time because in the '90s we had a lot of poo around. In the '90s you were using one cement.

[00:33:31]>> There was only one cement. There was Bamboui >> and Bambburi cement is a subsidiary of Lafage.

[00:33:38]>> So yeah for a long time that was >> I actually even see the tracks around here.

[00:33:42]>> Yes that was the cement we were using in the entire country and that was France investing in Kenya. Uh back then um we had a total >> may I interject m >> when you talk about faj >> it wasn't you need to talk about the extent of the involvement in that industry on the continent >> because I I know that because people I knew cuz I grew up in Mombasa worked in that company here somebody is going to Uganda >> then they going to West Africa >> and [clears throat] first I was wondering So Bombi that was before I knew that Bambour was subsidiary.

[00:34:20]>> Yes.

[00:34:21]>> So that involvement and the builtup industry that we knew of then that contribution was profound because there was no competition then.

[00:34:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And we had we had this French influence which we did not see directly because we didn't talk about it. Now as the world is changing uh in terms of economic scales also we are changing in terms of how we are doing business we are changing and right now we have I think the biggest foray of French companies coming into Kenya >> before even this conference on this summit coming to Kenya we already have about 140 French companies correct that are in the country uh you've been using um beauty products from L'Oreal for example Yes, >> we've been shopping right now at [laughter] 4. [laughter] I know people who also call it car 4, but you know how to call it. I mean what to call it. We just the company just came and we just saw it's K 4 and we said K 4. I I think it's not important what we call it. It's important what it has offered to us because it it has come to a space. I think there's a space that we we were missing something.

[00:35:46]>> You were missing some international feel. I a bit biased. I'll talk about the way you used to feel when you go into some big nakumat feel >> you know and you are yearning for that that feeling. And today I'm happy that even as you come from here you can now go to Kafur and ask for baguette you know baguette I know the baguette the bread that is also a weapon.

[00:36:08]>> Yeah yeah that one. [laughter] >> So you can go and ask for you can go and ask for baguette and they have this crossover for me it's very cultural is the one place I can find pate and pate you have the French pat the past made of meat you know that you can apply on bread.

[00:36:24]and and you have a lot of products coming from France, but they're also exporting a lot of products coming from Kenya. You'll find that Kafur in their supermarkets have packaged Kenyan coffee, Kenyan tea, and this is also going to the other side. So there's a lot of fun. But let let me come back to the relationship we're currently having with France in terms of the investment that is coming in and uh France right now is ranked the fourth in terms of direct investments, direct foreign investments that are coming into the country and more is going to come of course after this summit. So we're going to see a lot more um of French companies coming in. There's so much investment from French companies that the French companies here had to form a chamber of commerce.

[00:37:06]>> Yes.

[00:37:06]>> For themselves. So we do have a French chamber of commerce and industry in Kenya.

[00:37:13]>> Yeah. Just is be able just to be able to bring these people around one table so they can they can also network and network with Kenyan companies.

[00:37:22]>> You'll introduce us to this uh French chamber of commerce.

[00:37:24]>> I need to introduce you to Tommy Til.

[00:37:26]They have quite an array. They are the ones who bring together all these companies uh that we are seeing. we want to dissect and and and understand um the relationship that we have with France and just like you've said you know it's been intermittent you know [laughter] I actually long before we even had a county government >> yes >> I know because I worked in the western part of the country the French had sponsored a combination of projects is like an it was like an urban renewable project that dealt with water, the Lake Basin Water Authority. It dealt with roads which probably wasn't focused on roads that were probably in the [clears throat] the the suburbs. This was >> Kisumu.

[00:38:18]>> They came up with projects to actually manage waste and it was a longterm project and a partnership.

[00:38:27]>> In those days, Kisuma had a mayor. The mayor of Kum at that time was somebody called Samoko.

[00:38:31]>> Samo, a very good friend of ours. And I remember the seage, he was a very good mobilizer and he seriously mobilized the French government. I remember the seage system being redone in 2010 thanks to Samo and the relationship there.

[00:38:45]>> Yes, the whole sanitation process was put in motion by the by the French. So if you're talking about the relationship that once is I can speak of one that I saw and understood in terms of what it is that they were trying to do >> and what they did.

[00:39:00]>> You see the one of the things about the coexistence of partnerships with these countries there are countries who are very loud about the things they do. So even if it's a little it sounds big because it is loud. Then there are countries that don't talk much about them. Like you don't hear the French talking much about what they did. M >> very many water projects in the country >> can [clears throat] be attributed to the French in the region can be attributed to the French I compare them with the Japanese you don't hear them talking about what they do if you know what they've done then you'll know if you don't know then you don't know >> the Japanese are very modest people the French also don't remember in 2018 President Mron the first French president to actually visit Kenya came here >> they signed a 30-year deal with huru this Ma summit ru road you're hearing of no the plan they had was >> Mombasa >> Ma summit and beyond but even now when you look at the so-called railway extending from uh Dukamoa inasha >> onward the French are involved in that again you don't hear them talk about it but they are >> okay yes >> yeah and it goes beyond even just uh economic projects we have other projects that have cultural value educative value. Uh the investment that France has had in education in Kenya is immense. Um I had the benefit of working with the linguistic cooperation department which deals with promotion of French in schools. But it's not just promotion also development of the teaching of French among other subjects. Uh today um France is carrying on with the same mentality that he had before not brain drain but developing and coming back to build. So for a long time and and you know Kenyans it's something we we like we we would love to understand but we don't like it is that uh they will give me scholarships to go there a lot and the education is very affordable then I will go there and they expect me after finishing my PhD to come back to my country and that is one thing people are disgruntled about why are they asking us to go back see we came to study here so we stay so there are many Kenyans who stayed yes but the philosophy of the French has been come get the best education and go back in France Today uh those who are doing their degrees in France they're paying about 30,000 Kenya shillings a whole year. The university yeah it was hiked a bit but universities have refused to hike in in terms of shillings.

[00:41:26]>> I 30,000 shillings for an entire academic year.

[00:41:30]>> Yeah I actually did one one year degree um in 2021 I paid 32,000 shillings.

[00:41:37]>> It was online. Yes. And I had teachers directly every week we had class. It's the same as just being there, but it was 30,000. That's exactly what people are paying when they there. And there's no discrimination between international student and a foreign student. And this is open to a lot of people. So, we've benefited a lot in terms of training.

[00:41:54]Um, we have the biggest network of teachers of language anywhere in Africa.

[00:41:59]We have about 800 teachers of French.

[00:42:02]They're just having the elections of their chairman on during the weekend who is now Dr. Nuru Chalo of Maseno University. And these teachers of French are regularly taken to France and other countries for training. That is the one subject that benefits from constant training like the entire year all year round.

[00:42:22]>> And the learners also have a lot of benefits. We were talking the other day about uh uh language assistant program where [snorts] France allows young people to go and have their first international experience before they finish university. So between 70 to 100 Kenyan students are taken to France every year at the cost of the French government to go to go and assist the teacher of English.

[00:42:45]>> You didn't know this one. [laughter] Okay. When you finish this one, I'll ask the question I want to ask. So uh between 70 and 100 and that is since 2019, >> they're benefiting from something called language assistant program where they go to France uh at the cost of the French government. Uh so they paid something modest uh about €800 which comes to about 100 something thousand shillings per month uh to live there and all they need to do is to assist a teacher of English to teach English.

[00:43:16]>> That's it.

[00:43:16]>> That's it. They work about 12 hours a week.

[00:43:19]>> So 12 hours of teaching. Of course they have hours of preparation. The rest of the time these kids are getting international experience. I I'm I'm all over their IG accounts and they're in Germany. they you know once you're in Europe in Europe you can move across to another country they're in Portugal they're in Spain and they're getting a lot of experience there both in terms of their their growth uh their growth as professionals as students but also a lot of cultural exposure which they now bring back to the country and it doesn't have to be students who are learning to become teachers or teachers of language I know one former student of mine who did law be bi gadua and who is currently in France with her law degree I know one who did medicine and she decided to take a gap year cuz she felt like I need a break and this is her break now. She's going to be in France for one year and then come back. I know one who I met last week. He did maritime engineering and he took a a a gap and went to France and he's been there for 2 years. Okay.

[00:44:19]Now he's come back. So he's like I love teaching so much now I want to become a teacher. I don't want I don't want to go to to to the sea.

[00:44:33]So apart from we I've come from the language aspect of it and the teaching of French and the benefits we getting for students who want to go and live in France but there's also a lot of investment in TVET today >> because the world is increasingly in need of technicians and people who can work using their hands and people who can do work that involves your body as opposed to our university degrees where we're mostly taught to think.

[00:44:59]and France.

[00:45:06]I must say also the Germans are taking the same route also. So there's a lot of investment that has come in in terms of funding TVET institutions to offer technical training especially in electrical and mechanical engineering.

[00:45:19]So like PC Kinyanji college is having funding by the French government in terms of I think it's nanotechnology and some some of these yeah some of these complicated terms and uh we also have investment in the KMTC's um where they're now introducing foreign languages especially French uh because of the investment they're having from from France. So France is building here in case ever there is labor that is needed on the other side of course we'll be able to go but also that labor is spread across the world not just not just for here you know you sabu see once you empower people even if they're not your own people >> then number one you you reduce their reliance on you so that saves you a lot but also like you said >> the day you will need them you [clears throat] can ask for that help and they'll be inclined to help because they you're the who built that capacity.

[00:46:13]So they say you know what it's a good thing. Um and the question I wanted to ask earlier on you've actually answered because I was asking they they are you know taking all these students and taking them to France what is the benefit to them but when you said that as long as king then it kind of makes um sense it's a mutual but it's reciprocal because also city was saying about the agreements that were signed between the former president Uhuru and M during his first visit and yes and as you know these things they will documents up there. Then those documents will now give birth to smaller MOUS. And one of the smaller MOUS that was signed was to have a reciprocal um exchange for uh the international students. So we also have French students who are coming to Kenya as language assistants for the same >> to teach French >> to teach French to help teach French either in universities or in some schools. They're not as present in every [snorts] culture and having these guys around uh bringing their culture, sharing with our students, our teachers, it's really enriching the experience.

[00:47:30]Michael, my former company. Is it [laughter] my former company that one Africa logistics is French and then saying I know Portuguese [laughter] and then locked in from Ababa.

[00:48:03]M right so I didn't know I didn't know even petrol stations you know so it's okay [laughter] when you you know when you think of the input of u what now this a French government not alons when it comes to the assistance in the education sector where they're talking about Tibet where they've sponsored research projects or whether you are talking about the University of Nairobi technical university of Mombasa technical university of Nairobi >> of Kenya >> University of Kenya >> but it's here in Nairobi Mombasa >> yes okay >> what you will find is that there are things you take for granted when you are studying a language and there are things you take for granted when you're studying certain subjects like engineering because again they don't shout and say yes you see >> but where the water gets muddier is with the politics but as we said we'll bring the politicians [laughter] I I like when you're talking about things we don't see um I remember students asking me now when when when I've learned French what do I become a translator and interpreter I told me, you're thinking like the ' 70s and you're a child of the 2000s. In the 2000s, you must think about the barriers to your professional growth and those barriers are barriers you can see and those you can't see. One of those ones you're not seeing is the barrier of the language because h I speak Kika English and Kiswahi. What are your barriers so far?

[00:49:56]>> You can only cross to Tanzania.

[00:49:59]and close [laughter] to Uganda. Now, this East African community today uh has French as an official language.

[00:50:06]>> Yes.

[00:50:06]>> Which means for you to get a job at AU, if you have French, it means that your chances are doubling.

[00:50:12]>> At the United Nations, uh French is a working language, >> not just an official language.

[00:50:19]>> You can decide to work in French from Monday to Friday. Okay?

[00:50:21]>> In some in some organizations of the UN, right? So, somebody who has French and you've sent in the same exact CV. In fact, you're in the same class at the university and that person had a first class and you you had another class, >> but then you have French fluent level and you both apply to the UN. Who do you think the UN will favor?

[00:50:39]>> Chances are the French speaking person will be favored >> and and I'm here of course I have to speak about French, but that is the same case with other foreign languages.

[00:50:47]Whether you're speaking German, you're speaking Chinese, Arabic, Portuguese, you you have an added advantage and that language plays a very important role. So much that I think they still have it.

[00:50:58]The UN has an allowance at the end of the year for a foreign language that you speak fluently. You know, you're right because some of some of when I'm checking jobs online, >> I see some of the requirements include a foreign language.

[00:51:13]>> Then additional advantage it is called.

[00:51:19]requirement because they need to go and work in a French speaking when you get a scholarship to go to a country like Germany, you spend the first year learning the language. [clears throat] >> Okay.

[00:51:28]>> Yeah.

[00:51:29]>> Learning the language >> the languages and I like you put it well below >> that is a barrier breaker.

[00:51:37]>> It is.

[00:51:38]>> You have that language and suddenly the world just seems to open up to you.

[00:51:42]>> Yeah. So instead of thinking like let me let me now say how French has played for Kenyans in a in a space that is a bit sad. I will say sad because uh the the NGO world has took a huge heat.