NETANYAHU’S WAR IS TURNING INTO A STRATEGIC NIGHTMARE | Larry Wilkerson

Added: 2026-05-22

[00:00:00]I think we're looking at, as I've said many times before, um this shift of power in the world being being more and more recognized and more and more recognized not just in Asia and the what 60% of the GDP and people that live there or work there or both um but also by a wider array of people in the west. So that's the first thing I think we have to think about.

[00:00:30]When we talk about someone like Marco Rubio who probably doesn't understand that at all and so is flying in the face of not only world opinion, global opinion as it is developing but also western opinion and opinion even in America. I like to think that people like you and I are having some impact on that. And Marco Rubio too is running for president. So you have to really parse his words now in that regard because he's running for president as a MAGA guy. Um maybe even as a more intensely MAGA guy than Donald Trump himself who often is uh his vicissitudes are such that you wonder what he means when he talks about MAGA issues.

[00:01:21]So Rubio is kind of out of the equation right now as an identifier of diplomacy as he should be or of even where America might go in the future if he were to be the air parent and become the heir. Um I don't think that's going to happen, but he does. So everything he says now has to be interpreted in light of the fact that he's running for president of the United States. The the second thing I would comment on in in what you uh outlined there is what I've been saying also pretty persistently and that is that if China has an attitude that is best reflected for example in the brick summit that's coming up in September in India and in its title which is all about sustainability development innovation cooperation I underlined that in the title. I even made sure that the translation was correct. Um, and we're about all the opposites of those key terms. And that's what we are. Let's just envision something for a moment. If you could put it up in cleague lights across the globe, hang it out in space, you know, uh, and say, okay, this is what the Empire stands for. the American Empire.

[00:02:43]It stands for sanctions on 2.2 billion people and more if we can get it and war as exemplified by the last 25 years surely but certainly now maniacally by Iran.

[00:02:59]What does the rest of the world stand for led by China and to a certain extent the Shanghai Corporation Organization and bricks? What does it stand for?

[00:03:08]innovation, development, technology, cooperation, resilience, all these terms in their title.

[00:03:18]That is a stark contrast I think not only to the world, the global community, certainly the global south who suddenly have some hope maybe, but certainly to the cognaci and most of that rest of the world including the west. It looks like we've lost our way completely. It looks like we are walking into hell with full awareness that the flames are all around us and there's nothing we can do. We can't even turn around and walk back.

[00:03:51]We're just going to go right on in and burn up. Um, that's a hard place to be if you're a citizen and you're trying to figure out how to return to the republic, get out of this empire, or at least diminish its impact. um and at the same time deal with a very different world. Um and I think a lot of people are having trouble with that across the gamut, whether it be academics, uh it be business people or whatever. The ones who seem to not have any trouble with that, Trump took with him. And that's a very alarming development. I think he took those people with him who build, let's face it, dangerous airplanes.

[00:04:37]Thank you very much, Boeing. who um would rape the world for a few pennies in terms of agriculture, who are interested in a technocracy that puts them in charge. I wouldn't be I wouldn't put it past some of these people to essentially work their Chinese contacts in who might be empathetic and sympathetic with them uh to help them do this and ultimately establish a technocracy that not only is in the United States of America and triumphant but also is spreading its feelers all around the world to include the dominant power in the world China. So, what are we talking about doing with this council of business people rather than true diplomats?

[00:05:26]I think it's pretty apparent what we're doing. We're trying to build what Elon Musk wants to build. We're trying to build it as fast as possible. We'll take the Chinese technology and rare earth metals and everything else that we need to do this along with us. And if you want to accompany us certain members of your regime and be a part of this eventually global technocracy, uh, feel free to do so and we'll build it so we can watch it from outer space and Elon will provide the rockets. I know this sounds like uh nonsense, but I'm increasingly of a mind that it isn't nonsense. And that we have a a a a group of people in the world led by the United States who are so interested in this technocratic approach to the future. And for some reason, there's no question about it, AI, at least of all, which they all are heavily invested in directly or indirectly. Um, but there is an insidious aspect to it that troubles me greatly. It tr it would trouble George Orwell greatly, too. I'm sure where he's still around. Um, so that that's a long rambling answer, but I think we're in trouble.

[00:06:36]>> Yeah. No, I get that impression. Those of us who those of us who still believe in poetry, those of us who still believe in Shakespeare, those of us who still believe in the cultural things in the world that make life worth living, those of us who believe in families intact families and children and healthy environments to raise those children and education and help for the poor and all those things, we're in trouble.

[00:07:03]>> Yeah. No. of all uh I think the the emergence of this uh I guess the nationalized elite combined with the technological changes the changing distribution of power it's it's very difficult to to manage all of these changes >> I'm going to write that I'm going to write that down and dationalized elite that's a great phrase >> a different word than globalists I guess >> yeah a more direct a more direct insidious term >> well uh Samuel Huntington He he he wrote this article in 2004 called Dead Souls.

[00:07:38]Um when he he argued essentially well that we're heading where we're going now that is into an elite which isn't anymore that connected with the nation. And I think you can argue that this happened uh well he he he made a point in in the economy but also culturally but you can say technologically as well there's less than less less that links the leads to where they are. Um but um no it's a it's a it's a fueling um many levels of of problems but uh uh I I was also wanting to ask you about the the straight of her moose because initially this is one of the things that really surprised me that is uh uh that the Chinese were arguing that they also wanted uh that they didn't want to at all and they wanted straight over moose open but then you know when I looked into it more the statement ments it they they weren't actually condemning Iran or anything.

[00:08:36]They they were more or less just stating we want an open straight open waterways.

[00:08:41]>> And that's kind of a shared sentiment by the Iranians as well. I think >> the way to get that is to let the Iranians control it, [laughter] you know, with Chinese backup maybe, but that's the way to get it. That was the implication I took from it, too.

[00:08:59]>> Yeah. So I think this kind of vague statements people read [laughter] what they want into it. So again I might be wrong but uh um but so you don't think the the the the Chinese are willing to put any pressure on Iran at behest of the United States?

[00:09:16]>> Well they might be willing to talk about the 10 or now 13 or 14 who whoseever list you read points. I I think I saw yesterday and I asked one of my Iranian colleagues to confirm it if he would. I said is lifting of the siege, the permanent sessation of war, compensation for damages, removal of all illegal sanctions, that to them is all sanctions, primary, secondary, and so forth. And ultimately, respect for Iran's sovereignty and its rights as a nation in the world. would that be a a condensation you would accept? And he said absolutely.

[00:09:59]So that's boiling the 10 down into five or six. But they're still most of them not acceptable to BB Netanyahu. Uh the only thing acceptable to BB Netanyahu I think is a bantto stand like Iran. It's, you know, a lot of lot of people running around the zeris, Kurds, Persians, and everything else and no stability and no soundness and civil war, whatever, all over the place. That's the only thing Netanyahu will take other than a completely eradicated Iran with blowing deserts. Um, so I don't know how you get there. I really don't. But Trump should be focused on key points in that. Notice that there was nothing there he said about the nuclear program. Nuclear program for for him at least. And he said he's reflecting the deputy foreign minister I think. Um uh yeah I don't know exactly how to say this. I had not run into him before.

[00:11:02]Kazern Garabati deputy foreign minister to Aarachi. Um I don't know how you get there. Trump's major issue is the nuclear program and they don't even want to put it down as a point to discuss unless maybe by back channel they've arrived at some kind of solution that both find temporarily at least suitable to the nuclear problem and now they're just working on these other issues. I don't know. Um I still hold my view that I don't think diplomacy is anything but a subtrifuge. ceasefires are nothing but a subtrafuge and in a few days we're going back to allout war. And when Brad Cooper, that admiral in charge of central command, I always said, I told Powell, Powell agreed with me, don't ever put a navy or an air force guy in charge of a unified command.

[00:11:53]He wasn't so worried about the Navy as he was the Air Force. But Hooer's lying to the Congress through his teeth. He's flying to the Congress when he says we have not killed any civilians except those you and the only reason he said this was because it was on video. Those you saw in the school at the opening of the conflict though we k Are you kidding me? Read the New York Times and the Washington Post. They even report that you've killed more civilians than that.

[00:12:19]What does he consider an innocent civilian? I mean he and and this is the fourstar leading the effort in Central Command. So, I don't know where we are, but I think we're going back to war.

[00:12:31]Bottom line.

[00:12:33]>> Yeah. No, it appears so. Uh, I don't see any Well, I don't see path to military victory, but I don't see any diplomatic settlement either moving forward. uh but the the Iran issue though it had a very key I think it's quite important also for the US uh Chinese relations because uh it seemed that when Trump you know um agreed to this initial meeting before postponing it with Xiinping the that he wanted to defeat Iranians before they met so he had that to show off uh but instead we're in this situation where the US is in very deep deep trouble And uh I thought it was fascinating as you probably read the article now by Robert Kagan the checkmate in in Iran. This for me this is quite extraordinary to have one of the top neocons recognizing defeat. I mean forever wars are there.

[00:13:30]>> Yeah.

[00:13:30]>> One of one of the top. He's the king.

[00:13:32]He's the prince. [laughter] Take your term.

[00:13:36]>> So what do you read into this? Because this is quite significant. I mean in you know the the the the mood in Europe the limit of free speech that is would be you know if you if you recognize that we're losing that means you're taking the side of the opponent so we always have to make you know play play pretend that is you know the you know the Russians unprovoked war the Ukrainians are winning everyone has to repeat these things which you know isn't true but the same goes with Iran that is you know the the attack was to you know save liberate the country from the mulas And you know, the Americans are overwhelming, the Iranians are defeated. So, one kind of has to repeat this nonsense to to prove your loyalty. But but but again, for me, it's quite absurd because all you're doing is ignoring reality and thus making everything much much worse. But but still, for a guy like Kagan to come out, as you said, the king of the neocons, and say, "Okay, we're lost.

[00:14:31]This is it." I mean this is essentially the end of the uh you know arguing that this will be the graveyard of the American empire. This is but he didn't use those words but still for someone who co-founded the project for a new American century this is quite extraordinary. So yeah wondering what you read into all of this. I think he's angry and I think he's trying to stoke people into action by telling them drier things, drastic things about their current failings as he sees them. Um, and and I can't interpret it any other way than that really because I've followed him for too long. Um, you get some of these people into a corner where they think the things they've devoted their lives to and they associate that with the life of the republic too, such as it is, you get them into a corner and they will put all manner of information out telling you what the results are going to be. and they're usually truly dire results if you don't back up and reconsider and do what they told you to do in the first place. I think that's the real motivation for him doing this.

[00:15:46]Uh and I can't imagine that his wife wasn't in the closet saying keep writing, keep writing, Victoria Nuland. Um, it's a sign of I think the ultimate and I had a kind of an argument or discussion with a friend about this the other day who feels basically the way I do about the neocons but knows their history really well. I mean, he's made a study of their history. Uh I I would go to him if I had a question uh about this or that esoteric aspect of Neoc language or whatever whether it was Bill Crystal or Cayan or whomever and he knew where they came from, how they got generated in the Democrats originally, how they adopted to Richard Pearl in the Reagan administration and other things like that. And Jim says to me, um, they're losing and they really do not like losing after so many years of painstaking work to drive America into the hell that they wanted to drive it into. Now, they didn't think it was hell. They thought it was joyous and triumphant and we would be empire forever. Um, but they realize they're losing and they're striking back in the only way that they know how.

[00:17:04]And they're not losing necessarily because we didn't carry out their strategy. We're losing because we carried out their strategy, but we did it imperfectly with say Kagan.

[00:17:18]>> Yeah. No, I've seen many arguing that, you know, the empire is being thrown away and all of this, but uh I think it was always unsustainable. I I often refer to the a lot of the academic literature in the ' 90s. I was quite critical of this concept of the unipolar moment which always made the point that at some to in order to maintain a global empire it's going to be very expensive.

[00:17:41]So one's going to waste a lot of lives, waste a lot of money, but also waste the the standing in the world, the reputation. And while the an empire will always overextend itself, it will be dependent on keeping rising powers down, which would then incentivize the rest of the international system to come together a bit like bricks and uh and balance than the aspiring hedgeimon. So I think it's um yeah know I think that this was always doomed doomed to fail at some point but uh the idea that the whole that global primacy could be permanent uh I think was very wrong indeed the one who coined this term unipolar moment um I always forget his name uh yeah um yeah anyway so my my point is even his article he wrote that you know this is the current phenomenon it's going to change in in the future, but this is what we have today. But um no uh I I I did want to have my my last question though about Trump. How >> I'm You really got me thinking there. I was trying to figure Bjinski wrote something like that. Um but it wasn't quite that.

[00:18:53]>> No, he was something with K. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> I I can't put my finger on it either. I I I would say another thing though, just to demonstrate how badly the warp and woof of I think even the Bill Crystals, the Richard Pearls and others has gone astray. This came out of the New York Times yesterday. From two September 25 to the present time, roughly nine months, the United States of America has conducted 55 legal lethal lethal military strikes on boats in the Caribbean and the Pacific. No warning shot, no boarding, no arrest, no trial, just death.

[00:19:39]194 people by our account.

[00:19:42]No accounting to Congress or the people.

[00:19:44]The US government is not publicly IDed identified any of them at all. The Department of Justice document that they say contains the legal justification for what they're doing is classified secret.

[00:20:01]Does that take me back to my administration? And then the last thing, the drugs keep coming.

[00:20:10]What a comment. I mean, what a comment on the present state of the empire.

[00:20:18]>> Oh, by the way, Charles Crowutamemer, he's the one with the unipol that he came to me now. Yeah. Anyways, I >> used to bug the hell out of me all the time.

[00:20:28]>> [laughter] >> you didn't want to say too much because Charles knew he was in a certain physical position where he had sympathy and empathy maybe. Um but at times I wanted to pick up my phone on my desk at the State Department and hurl it at him.

[00:20:47]Well, I made the point before though what when I read his article, I thought that the main flaw was because he described as well there's a unipolar distribution of power. Now we should take advantage to have a hegemonic period and in the future uh this distribution of power will change and then we'll shift we'll go to multipolarity. But I think the main flaw in that thinking was the human nature part of it because that's that's not how human beings work. You have now you know 30 plus years a whole generation of politicians growing up under the idea that we have a under liberal hedgeimon that our dominance is a requirement to spread the liberal democratic values and have peace. So the idea that we would simply see, oh, I guess the Chinese and Russians have risen now. Let's just shift to multipolarity. That's not how human beings work, right?

[00:21:34]>> And I I think it should have been predicted that once this happened, we would still fight it tooth and nail. But that kind of takes Yeah. me to my last question. Sorry.

[00:21:43]>> All those all those missionaries you put into the world like Victoria Nuland and so forth really screwed it up.

[00:21:49][laughter] >> Yeah. But they're not going anywhere.

[00:21:52]they they as you said they they genuinely believe in this uh higher mission. Uh but is is this uh this selfdeception that that's what I want to ask about this if this is a Trump meltdown or selfdeception because when I heard him talk about China he made all these comments that the the Chinese agreed the Iranians wouldn't enrich any uranium the you know the Chinese want the straight of hormones open it's does he believe everything he's saying you think or is this just I again trying to manage the narrative.

[00:22:30]>> I was looking for a comment because you were keying me to it. Dr. Dr. John Gartner from John's Hopkins who is a psychotherapist and taught for 30 years or so at Johns Hopkins. He's the one that is on every now and then podcast here, podcast there, talking about the deranged nature of Donald Trump and how intense it is getting and how it fits every profile that you would want to draw up if you were someone like him, an expert in this. And he predicted that uh not only is he worse, he's going to get even worse. Um, that's scary when you think about it because as I said to another person yesterday, basically our founders left us no methodology for removing such a person from the Oval Office. Period. Oh, the 25th Amendment.

[00:23:26]I said, "That's a joke. That's a joke."

[00:23:28]And I sent him the video on the 25th Amendment, which is very persuasive that it will never work and that it was intended by its crafters to never work.

[00:23:37]Um, so how do you get rid of a megalomaniac?

[00:23:42]That's what this doctor was saying actually. Um, it's going to get worse.

[00:23:48]He said it's not going to get better.

[00:23:50]It's going to get worse.

[00:23:52]Where do we find a point in the next two years that we prevent perhaps a civil war for which Pete Hexth is building a military component that will be supportive? Brad Cooper may be a perfect example of that, the commander of central command. Um, and others too.

[00:24:11]And I, you know, I don't know what to say about it other than, yeah, you're right. We don't have any way to get rid of this guy. We do not.

[00:24:20]Impeachment is a joke. We've proven it a joke over two centuries.

[00:24:26]Well, I can to some well, he's obviously a huge narcissist, but I can kind of understand how he how his mental state could have gotten a lot worse here because if you look at uh you know how he thought things were going for him and how it actually went. It's it's quite um a shock that is you know he sees the US relative decline in the world as being caused by these weak leaders and he's very convinced and it seems that he's the solution because he's the strong leader he's a smart leader so he's essentially America's revival uh rest on his shoulders and then you know the first his first administration you saw that the intelligence services attempted to take him down with this Russia gate hoax And you know he he overcame it and then but nonetheless he was he he he lost the presidential election which he says was stolen and then but he was able to come back against all odds and regain the presidency and again it becomes this underdog story which he becomes his own hero and and then the people tell him listen how about you take out Venezuela you know kidnap take take the leader uh and then he does it in in one day like a you know great uh like a great warrior.

[00:25:42]and he's able to essentially restore the dominance of the US in his own backyard.

[00:25:47]And then they say, "Hey, how about you can also take Cuba? How about Iran? No other American leaders have ever been able to do this, but that's because they were weak. Their weakness is why we're in decline. You know, you're the strong one." And and suddenly he goes from, you know, just going higher and higher, more and more success in his own mind, and then suddenly everything falls apart, especially now in Iran. It must be for a narcissist this must be very devastating though. I can imagine you know if I was him retreating into my own reality but uh I'm not again I'm not a psychologist but it just seems >> I think you're right and I think part of the reason for it is that things are seeping through now. It's it's impossible for them not to seep through with all the delouch that's now started including some of the mainstream media.

[00:26:34]This has really really alarmed him I think and uh to send cash Patel to do what he's been sent to do is a perfect illustration of how much it's alarmed him.

[00:26:47]This is Julian Assange and and uh the Pentagon papers and kinds of things uh writ large. But with the president uh you could say that against Dan Ellburg maybe the same kind of opposition existed. But at least you had Katherryn Graham at the Washington Post and others like her who were willing to stand up for what they believed and what they thought was true journalism and and triumphed. I don't think you're going to triumph today. I think he's going to wreck a lot of what vestage of uh the republic has left, including the free press before he leaves. And what does that leave us with?

[00:27:28]I mean, if it leaves us with a JD Vance or a Marco Rubio or indeed a civil war somewhere in there roughly around the midterms or afterwards, God only knows what it leaves us, but it's certainly not going to leave us better off.

[00:27:47]>> So, you think this is a real possibility, the civil war in the United States? I keep going back to that period in the in the empire or the republic I should say that uh most impressed our founding fathers if they had such an impression and quite a few of them including Jefferson probably Madison probably uh Washington maybe Franklin was more skeptical but there's a reason they talked about things like the Roman Empire the Western Roman Empire and adopted terms like Senate and so forth.

[00:28:26]Um, and I there is a rough analogy here with Caesar coming into the Senate.

[00:28:33]The republic is still in existence. He defies all the port tents and apparently there were one or two right on the steps of the Senate and goes in and he's assassinated and then the civil wars break out and it wouldn't have taken a military genius to oversee that after about oh 6 weeks or so and say who was going to triumph probably and Octavius did and Octavius of course became Augustus and established the pacts Augustus and years and years of peace in an empire which would thereafter always be an empire and always have a single ruler uh passed on.

[00:29:19]There is so much similarity even with 2,000 years of history having intervened that it it it hurts to think about it. Is that where we're headed?

[00:29:31]um but without in many respects at this point at least an identified Octavius.

[00:29:39]Would he come from the military?

[00:29:43]Would he come from government? Would he come from places we don't know now? I doubt it because you have to be in position to do what you're going to do.

[00:29:52]and Octavius was and Octavius had a very u very good relationship with the power structure. And so you would have stood there probably a week or two into that regardless of Shakespeare and Mark Anony's comments. Cry havoc, let's slip the dogs of war. Well, the dogs of war slipped and it was inevitable really looking at it who was going to triumph, who had the loyalty, the forces and so forth and who had the genius. No question about it. Um, who is that person today were I to be proven correct in this rough analogy.

[00:30:31]But it isn't impossible is what I'm trying to tell people.

[00:30:38]It's uh well it's uh it seems that this fits in with the wider politics of the day when you have this huge shifts in the power international distribution of power that is governments well states among each other they see begin to see everything now in all or nothing terms as there's two big changes within the US as well >> think about some of the surrounding reasons that the Russian revolution took place [laughter] and took place in the that it did and was usurped by Stalin. I mean, these things happen.

[00:31:15]We like to think, oh, not here.

[00:31:19]Stand by.

[00:31:22]>> Well, on that pessimistic note, uh, thank you [laughter] as always for coming on.

[00:31:26]>> And our beans have to get together and save us from our own wrath.