The women leaving the 'New Right' | It's Been A Minute

Added: 2026-05-19

[00:00:00]I mean, let's just be real. Like, women operating in the manosphere, right? I mean, like, that has always been a a risky proposition, but it is also not new. Like, the manosphere as part of our democracy has literally been here since the origins of democracy, right? I think, >> okay, you going to have to break that down.

[00:00:19]>> Here you go.

[00:00:21]>> Hello. Hello. I'm Britney Loose and you're listening to It's been a minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Last week in my interview with the I've had it in IHIP news co-hosts Jennifer Welch and Angie Pump Sullivan, I wanted to know their thoughts on the wave of young women leaving the new right. They were skeptical of whether or not these women, likely white women, would distance themselves enough from the movement to make a large political swing. And to me, that spoke to a larger question about what these women were even looking for in the new right. And now that some may be defecting, where do they see their place in this volatile political spectrum now? To help unpack this, I called up editor at large of the 19th and NABJ President Aaron Haynes.

[00:01:08]Aaron and I got to the root of what some of these women may have been searching for and how the desire for a particular kind of comfort and community can lead people down troubling paths. Erin, welcome to It's Been a Minute. It has been a Minute. Thanks for having me back. Good to be with you.

[00:01:26]>> It's so good to have you back. It's so good to have you back. Um, okay. We got we got something to get into today. We have something to get into today. Um, this conversation was conceived after reading an article by Sam Adler Bell um in New York magazine or for the intelligence for New York magazine called uh the young women leaving the new right. So before we really dig into it, um I guess my first question is this. What's the difference between the old right and the new right in your view? I mean, let's just be real. Like women kind of operating in the manosphere, right? I mean, like that has always been a a risky proposition, but it is also not new. Like the manosphere as part of our democracy has literally been here since the origins of democracy, right? I think, >> okay, you're going to have to break that down. You're going to have to break that down a little bit, >> right? But I mean, literally, women have been trying to kind of um find their role in the democracy that was created for and by white men 250 years ago.

[00:02:29]Since the beginning, Abigail Adams, you know, March of 1776 is pleading with her husband, remember the ladies. Hello.

[00:02:36]Like, why? Because the manosphere was was, you know, alive and well in 1776, even as we were crafting our founding ideals. So I mean that's kind of what I'm talking about when I say that it has been present since our democracy's origin. So I think that really um you know it's never not been part of our democracy and the only question is kind of how women are functioning in it and I think that was the this this new right women leaving the new right article uh which by the way a lot look it was definitely in the slack channels okay at work like I think a lot of us were circulating that article because I I think it does say something kind of about who and where we are as a democracy and especially around kind of the gender and and politics and power of it all that we think about so much at the 19th.

[00:03:19]Hm. Okay. So, you're talking about, it's interesting, you basically kind of collapsed the distinction between an old right and a new right, but there is something I think to this very internetfueled manosphere that even feels distinct to me um as what I saw on the internet 10 years ago or even five or six years ago. I mean things I feel like have kind of coalesed um in this way that does feel like there is something kind of distinct I guess about the current sort of political right.

[00:03:49]Yeah.

[00:03:50]>> I got you. And and I do think that that kind of what you're getting at is um this evolution from you know the manosphere to maybe this kind of you know fascinating interesting curiosity of of internet subculture to something that really is a lot more mainstream and that is really shaping how people are thinking about gender and power and authority in this country. Absolutely.

[00:04:11]Absolutely. So I think you know the thing that was so interesting about this article is you see kind of young women leaving parts of the new right that that feels like not just a reaction to politics but like reacting to this kind of broader culture that has permeated a lot of things in our society that's really becoming a lot more explicit right about who it values and who it doesn't value. I think when a lot of people think about the right, they're thinking about um not just, you know, some of these uh kind of like alt-right or like neoconservative or uh manosphere figures um that we have seen kind of u infiltrate mainstream conservative politics. I think people are also thinking about um you know conservatives of old like I'm thinking about somebody like um maybe Phyis Slafley. Um, yeah. I want So, thinking about that in mind, I wonder where did women kind of where have women traditionally fit into the right in the past versus what their place may be in the right now.

[00:05:13]>> Yeah. I mean, um, you, so you bring up Phyllis Schlafley, you know, conservative woman icon really, uh, you know, for that movement who, you know, basically was somebody who was a homemaker, proud of it, and and, you know, was feeling like, uh, so much of politics, particularly, you know, uh, politics on the left was ignoring homemakers as, as people who were valuable. I mean, you know, she's coming, she's rising to power kind of in the midst of, um, you know, the feminism and and and that movement, right? and and so women leaving the home, moving into the workforce, pushing for gender equality, and on and on, right? And so there she's she's stepping into this void where she's seeing a constituency that is feeling unseen and unheard in our democracy. And that's always a ripe opportunity, right, for somebody um to to really um create a movement that can catch on. And so that was a movement that caught on with a lot of wi-i of women who identified with with Shaffley and and felt um felt unseen and unheard themselves and she was giving them kind of a voice in those politics. I think fast forward to now and um you know you've got these young women like the woman uh you know who's speaking in this uh intelligence article who drawn to kind of um these uh voices that are pushing back against woke politics that are kind of touching on some subjects that were supposed to be taboo or that they couldn't talk about. And so it's like, oh well, this feels less kind of stuffy or stodgy than than some of what I'm seeing on the left, especially, you know, on the left with um as it pertains to white folks on the left, right? Like the things that that they're they're not allowed to say or they're not allowed to talk about. Well, they're talking about it over here. I'm open to that. I want to talk about that, which was fine until the misogyny jumped out. Aha. Aha. Um yeah, I I actually want to I want to touch on that a little I mean, in an interview with Michelle Martin and PR Michelle Martin, yes, Sam Adler Bell said, "The moment that sort of inspired this piece was Tucker Carlson's interview with Nick Fuentes, um, who is a far, some might say far far right influencer. Um, the interview sparked a lot of internal conversations on the right. U, you know, there were some concerns about racism, there were concerns about u anti-semitism. Um, but according to the women in those spaces, there wasn't really that much being said about sexism or misogyny, right?

[00:07:40]>> Um, and that moment sort of encapsulated, I think, for a lot of women, um, that sexism is foundational to this new right. Um, according to Sam Adlerbell's piece, um, part of the reason why some of these some of these women joined this movement is, you know, because they believed in a sort of like, I guess, old school conservatism kind of as we've been talking about a little bit. um you know the idea of like the wife, the mother at home, the sort of trad ideals, you know, never mind that a lot of the people that are selling this tradife fantasy as it were are very often profiting off of it or gain power from it. I'm thinking about >> trading online as a full-time job. Turns out >> I'm think whether it's Hannah Neilman, uh Ballerina Farm, Nara Smith, the influencer Nara Smith, who's always making like toothpaste and chewing gum from scratch. um or even whether it's someone like Phyis Schlaffley herself, there is kind of this tradition of, you know, the idea of someone being this traditional wife while also being really shrewd at business and making mint off of this stuff. Um, but there was I think in this idea of old school old school conservatism, it seems like there was this idea of sort of reciprocity. Like if you were going to like like take care of the home as a woman, then the man or this greater political structure of conservatism was going to take care of you. Um, but new conservatism doesn't really honor that at all. And in fact, you know, at least according to the way that like a lot of the opinions and views that these people share, um it kind of entirely dumps the domestic labor um on to women and also while also dismissing um you know what a lot of these women described as like their feelings, their ideas, their thoughts.

[00:09:28]>> Um I don't know what do you sort of make of this like mask off moment that these women are experiencing?

[00:09:34]>> That's that's a good way to put it. um mask off because yeah, I mean we I think um the break is coming because you have a lot of these women kind of seeing, oh wait, they just want my output. they don't care about my input, which I don't know that they always felt that way about kind of how this dynamic worked and and and and that they thought, you know, that they they saw themselves as also having value and bringing value, right, to um to this particular type of of politics particularly in terms of um the gender dynamic and their contributions in the home uh you know, which which um you know, they see as very important. You know, you talk about, you know, the sexism being really foundational. I mean, what this this piece um that Sam Adler Bell wrote. What I what I really thought was interesting in that too was just um you know, kind of this idea that that when sex sexism kind of enters the chat, enters, you know, the conversation, there's nobody to stand up, man or woman, that is speaking up, that is pushing back against that. And so you know what this this article is saying was that for some of them at least sexism was kind of a small price to pay for the price of entry into this world which you know as you know the existence of sexism right um until they are kind of forced to confront that personally in some way or you know they are now finding themselves in spaces where you know sexism is present and then looking around and there are you know you you are not in community. in fact uh when when those moments are happening. And so then where does that leave you in this movement? I I think that that's that's really where, you know, a lot of a lot of these women are now finding themselves. I I I would also say, you know, I don't know if you saw um you know, there's kind of been some conversation about um Maha really being in at odds right now with with um the admin this administration and supporting this administration. RFK brought so many of them in, but now >> RFK Jr. Yes. RK Jr., correct? I mean, yes, >> obviously. Yes. But I mean, you know, them feeling them them also feeling like, >> hey, hang on. This is not necessarily what I signed up for. And so, you know, this is not really abstract for these women anymore. I think it's showing up in very real ways, like how safe they feel, how they're kind of navigating relationships, how they're thinking about their future, and obviously like how um like you've got this political ecosystem that is literally reshaping how people are thinking about gender and power that is having direct implications for their own personal experiences with democracy.

[00:12:11]>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean there is so much about this political moment that is really highlighting and laying bare um some of the like I mean it feels like a simultaneous examination of the macro and the microlevel sexism and misogyny that all women are having to deal with.

[00:12:28]Um like I said that's something that's happening across the political spectrum.

[00:12:32]It's happening in the personal and it's happening in the public sphere. It's happening in politics. It's all kind of coming up for a lot of women right now.

[00:12:40]So, it feels like, as you mentioned, if for some of these women, uh, sexism was a small price to pay to kind of be a part of the club. Um, I imagine that'll hit pretty hard right now.

[00:12:50]>> I I would imagine it's hitting pretty hard, too. But, I mean, listen, the reality is that gender has always been political >> and uh, politics is always personal. So, you combine all of that and here you are, right? Like like so much of politics for all of us is informed by our lived experience, our lived identities and and what that what that means for how we are able to participate and the extent to which we are able to to participate fully in this democracy.

[00:13:23]You know, I I want to kind of point out some irony here and I think you've already kind of touched on this. Um, the women that Adler Bell spoke to, they they were also people in this space, in this conservative space that had espoused kind of regressive um or even sexist views around women themselves, even though they were women.

[00:13:48]And I I also want to make clear that one of the women Adler Bell spoke to, Anna, requested anonymity for fear of retaliation from their base. But Adler Bell did name some women who left publicly like former Tatwife influencer Alice Lonnie and Ashley Stlair, former Turning Point USA brand ambassador who had a child with Elon Musk and is now fighting Musk for custody. According to Adler Bell, St. Clair is now an advocate for women facing online abuse. um their engagement with some of these more fringe spaces was inspired by their own feelings of isolation like you mentioned kind of surrounding like the woke left um and and like woke scolding quote unquote what a lot of people describe as cancel culture um or you know like language policing um a lot of people were sick of that on the left for whatever that is worth. Um, and so, you know, as you also tal we also talked about like they found this desire for, you know, this more traditional uh view of how people should live, like more traditional and conservative values that they felt were important to them. Um, but I don't know, they also kind of described feeling that progressive values were taking away from our culture. Um, I mean, and and to be clear, I'll say that like they're turn away from the right. I I can't even say this has turned them into centrists. I'm not saying that these women are packing up their bags and crossing the aisle and going all the way to the left. Um, but I will say like it has it seems like I don't know. It seems like their treatment in the space as like partners, as mothers, um, as helpmates, whatever.

[00:15:25]Um, or even public figures, right? Even even people who have been kind of pretty prominent voices on the on the right.

[00:15:31]Um, it's kind of isolated them from something that they thought would protect them. like they they really felt like this structure um was kind of built to protect them, which I find kind of to be an interesting assumption when you consider a lot of conservative values that that have been shared for decades in this country um have included views that many many women have found to be um sexist or um or at least um restrictive or regressive in terms of how they treat women. A lot of women have taken an issue with this for a long time. I find it interesting that even some of these younger women that ostensibly have had the benefit of um kind of learning from the past or considering the past um there's still this kind of attitude of them being kind of caught off guard I guess.

[00:16:20]>> Yeah. I mean I don't know. So, I feel like I feel like that is maybe uh an awareness and awakening that comes with each new generation of of of um uh certainly a lot of white women in America. Uh that is what I would say. I mean, look, we are named for an amendment to the constitution that was about guaranteeing the right to vote for some but not all women.

[00:16:45]>> I was going to say not for my kind specifically white women, right? who threw indigenous women who were not even recognized as citizens in 1920 at the passage of the 19th amendment, Latinas, Asian women who were, you know, blocked from from access to the ballot because of, you know, language barriers and all kinds of other things. So, what does it mean to consistently choose your race over your gender repeatedly in this democracy? like this is the latest iteration of that that we are now maybe seeing somewhat of a departure from right now. Right? But this is not new.

[00:17:22]This is not a new phenomenon in American politics. It's certainly not a new phenomenon for uh a lot of white women in this country. That the thought that aligning themselves with uh you know uh white male patriarchy in this country was somehow going to benefit them. they were doing that because they thought that they were aligning themselves with power, with safety, with access to certain things. Um, and and and that in fact is is not proving to be and even maybe, you know, values that they agree with or wanted to to to align themselves with that has that that doesn't necessarily pay off for them.

[00:18:02]>> You know, I'm glad you bring this up because um this reminds me of a recent conversation I had. I just spoke with um Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan of the I've had a podcast and IHIP News. I'm sure you're familiar with them.

[00:18:14]>> Yes.

[00:18:14]>> Um and I asked them about this recent shift away from the right. Um and and and you know about of these conservative presumably white women who are shifting from the white from the right away from conservative politics. Um, and even though Angie had undergone a a journey of her own, turning away from conservative politics, um, they both seemed really skeptical. I don't trust it. I know these women. These women are wildly indoctrinated into a culture where they think the world should be curated for them. It's not popular to like Trump right now. And so, they're jumping off. They both seemed really skeptical that uh that you know that this many um again they were speaking from the perspective of white women that this many white women or that any you know I guess um notable number of white women shifting away from the right may have been like a permanent change. U one of the things that they had posited was that well Trump is unpopular now or you know like the ICE raids are unpopular now. um you know a lot of the foreign policy that we're seeing like military campaigns that that you know the United States is carrying out in the Middle East those are unpopular now >> and that might be informing some of their decisions but um yeah they both seemed really skeptical. I'll also say that that skepticism is shared I've seen it shared across the internet as this piece was making the rounds across social media. I I saw a lot of skepticism um as to what this political about faith might mean. And so I wonder where do you think that skepticism comes from?

[00:20:03]You know, I think where it comes from is what does it, you know, what does this mean for how you will now act politically, right? like it it it it it this is not just about um you know kind of stepping away from this movement. Uh it is it is not uh just about like like how does that disillusionment translate into your political action, right? Like um no longer espousing these views but then you know maybe doing the same thing that you have been doing at the ballot box. like what does what does that say about where you really are with with with all of this, right? Um because yeah, I mean I think even even in that disappointment, I don't know what that means for Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's that's the skepticism that you're seeing coming up is that people don't know what that means >> for how how much the um the number shift in terms of of the actual political support that that you see you know are you you know maybe you don't like you know this particular strain or or this particular piece but then you maybe still be voting for candidates that are still very much a part of that world or very much you know still aligned with uh some of what we are seeing happening in in the manosphere. And so does that mean that you really are not okay with this?

[00:21:26]Are you willing to actually show um your departure from this group right in in those politics? I I think that is really the skepticism that we are seeing because like the manosphere um the alt-right, the new right has always kind of centered male grievance, has always reacted to women's autonomy, has always kind of framed feminism as a threat. So like that's not new, but all of a sudden it's not okay. Like what is what does that like like the shift like you said earlier like the mask is off, right?

[00:22:01]That the ideas that used to be kind of codec coded dog whistle or much more explicit now. I mean literal anti anti-suffrage rhetoric being thrown about as was mentioned in the article.

[00:22:12]Open hostility to women, you know, being independent. Um and and it's not just kind of a family values conversation uh that is happening. it it's more um it's much more about male dominance and male control, right? And so that I I think is the the part of the reason for the shift. Um and women are kind of coming to this understanding that that maybe they were useful symbolically, but but they were not valued as part of the infrastructure of this movement, if that makes sense.

[00:22:45]Um, and thinking about the infrastructure of of a movement, um, that makes me think about something else that came up in the conversation that I had, uh, with Jennifer and Angie from IHIP News. And, you know, Jennifer brought up the idea that in order for the country to move forward politically, um, especially, you know, the Democratic base, that we've got to listen to black women and take their concerns seriously.

[00:23:08]Um, and she has some she has some good thoughts about that. She has some very good thoughts about that. This is an idea that's been posited for years across politics more broadly. Um the idea that black women are a political bellweather um when it comes to the issues that affect all women. Um many black women have agreed with this. Many black women have agreed with this. And then other black women I think maybe also have agreed with this, but like um but maybe have also bristled at the idea um of you know black women perhaps having to be uh h what they feel like is kind of pulling you know the rest of their along. Um I wonder where does that dynamic fit into this shift away from the right?

[00:23:54]>> Yeah. And again this is where we have not learned the lessons of the suffrage movement. right? Uh when black women were back, okay, take it back. Take it back.

[00:24:01]>> Standing shoulderto-shoulder with white women, pushing for suffrage, pushing for women's equal access to the ballot box.

[00:24:08]And what happens when it looks like white women can finally get across that finish line in 1920? Oh, but you can't bring black women with you. Oh, well, we're going to throw you over the side and do what we have to do. like that that like even today, you know, the listen to black women uh believe black women uh mantra is back and and but have have have those lessons been learned from um you know a hundred years ago in our politics. I would say that they probably have not. But I mean, you're exactly right, Britney, like black women have been naming this dynamic for a long time, right? the idea that movements will invite women in but not actually share power with them. We had to learn that the hard way. Um and and and I think what's different now is that more women are experiencing this directly.

[00:24:57]And so that I I would hope that that um that they can also understand the long tradition, the continuum that we have been on um that maybe will lead them to make different choices about how to move going forward.

[00:25:17]>> That's a that's a different that's a different paradigm right there.

[00:25:20]>> Yeah. I mean, if women are leaving, it's not because the movement changed. It's because it finally told the truth about itself. So, you know, where does that where does that leave you?

[00:25:30]>> Yeah. All of this makes me think about um like a particular brand of online content that I've started to see post 2024.

[00:25:40]>> Okay. Um and you know whether it was it's in response to you know ICE enforcement or um SNAP benefits being taken away um or or what we're talking about now this sort of like rapidly es escalating disdain for women that's coming through these sort of new conservative politics um or or even a disdain for anything feminine whatsoever. Um, you know, I don't know.

[00:26:07]I'm I'm starting to see actually kind of constantly seeing these sort of like um you know, I regret my vote or why I left MAGA posts. And you know, as you can imagine, these videos get a lot of views, a lot of likes, a lot of shares.

[00:26:20]Um, it it makes for sticky online content. Um, and you know, whether that is good, you know, whe whether that these are positive reactions or negative reactions, whether that attention is good or whether it's bad. Um, and as we get further into this midterm year, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more moments where we kind of have to contend with some of the people who were part of getting us to this moment, getting the country to this moment, um, politically where it is right now. Um, and this is I mean, you know, regardless of how you feel politically, this is a volatile moment. There are a lot of things that the government is doing that a lot of American people have uh don't feel confident in or um or just certain things that aren't very popular even on both sides of the aisle. Right. This is a moment where it seems like a lot of people are unhappy and a lot of things are inevitable.

[00:27:19]>> Absolutely. Um, I wonder how do we consider the idea of making space for what it means to make space for people who may be expressing guilt or regret um, discomfort, buyers remorse, um, or or simply didn't think that things would get quote unquote this bad, whatever they think this bad means. Um, how do we consider uh or how should we be considering or making space for or should we be considering or making space for people who um who may who who perhaps contributed to a moment that many people are unhappy to be in um but now are feeling a type of regret. How how should we think about that? You know, at the end of the day, a thing to remember is that for so many of these people, the thing that brought them to, you know, kind of a new right movement, a manosphere, what have you, is them seeking a sense of belonging, a sense of community, right? And now that they are realizing that they are no longer a part of that community, maybe they are you and they have left that they they have left that community, they no no longer have that community, where are they going to find community?

[00:28:31]I mean, look, the the the adage that there are strength in numbers has always been true. And as more and more of these women are turning away from this movement, what will it look like? Because I think we can also expect this given history when this movement turns on them.

[00:28:48]Right. We've already seen I mean look at what happens after Minneapolis for example um with as you have more progressive white women who are increasingly getting off the sidelines maybe showing up at protest that kind of thing all of a sudden we have a new acronym awful right >> the >> wait please please yeah >> oh the affluent white female urban liberal right it's like hey you are a white woman that is not on our team whatever you interpret that to mean, right? You ha you need to you need to stick with us and not be aligned with this, you know, these woke folks that are causing problems all across the country. Like you can already see >> that gender is something that well I mean continues to be weaponized against women in our in our politics. And so what does that mean for these women that are stepping back from this and saying, "Whoa, um maybe I'm not okay with all of this or I'm realizing maybe that this this these politics are problematic, not just for me personally, but maybe more broadly. Um but now I need new community somewhere else." Like it's going to be really interesting to see if they are able to find community, if they if they are able to create community uh of their own somewhere else.

[00:30:10]What is what does that mean? Because because now that they they are they are um I mean they were never you know really protected by this movement but what does it mean to really be kind of out in the wilderness uh so to speak um for for a lot of them? I mean you're talking about not just stepping away from a movement. Maybe even you have family members. Maybe your closest friends are a part of this and now you're not a part of it anymore. So what is it that you are going to be a part of and what are you able to be a part of?

[00:30:41]>> That's such an interesting that's such an interesting reframe of that that really what a lot of people are looking for is community and I think that's how we got them. I mean look we're talking about the loneliness epidemic with w with with these men uh in America. What does it mean for women to be seeking community?

[00:31:02]We I mean women women also experience we've discussed on this show women experience rates of loneliness that are very similar to the rates of loneliness that we see among men. Women are experiencing loneliness too.

[00:31:15]>> Yeah. And so I'm I'm not uh I I I am saying that that may also be part of this for them. And so where where do they where do they find community after this?

[00:31:28]>> Because this was clearly a space where they did find community. Erin, uh, you have just blown my mind today. I am so glad we had this conversation. I I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[00:31:43]>> Listen, thank you so much. It's always good to be with you.

[00:31:47]>> Thank you. That was editor at large of the 19th and NABJ President Aaron Haynes. And to all of you watching, thank you so much for hanging out with us. Be sure to come back to this feed every Tuesday for a fresh video episode.

[00:32:01]You can watch these episodes exclusively on Spotify, YouTube, and the NPR app.