Why Nigerians Don't Buy (Even When They Need It) | Ayo Akinola - PiggyVest Co-Founder

[00:00:00]Being able to create value. That's really the center of it. If you create value, you make money from it. I've always been an entrepreneur. [music] The reason why I got into photography was not really for the love.

[00:00:12]It was because I saw that I can make money from doing something. I remember the time when I got expelled and then I had to go home. When I got home, I was like, "My dad is going to kill me."

[00:00:24]He came back. He just hit me on my back.

[00:00:25]He said, "Boy, how far now? So, what you going to do?"

[00:00:28]>> Out of your experiences introduced kicking off almost 12 or over 10 businesses, which failed before you then launched PayVest.

[00:00:36]>> PayVest was not an idea that, you know, dropped out of heaven. I think our first year we we did about [music] 21 million in naira in in savings. Those numbers are in seconds now.

[00:00:48]>> Any one of those businesses, for instance, break you or make you reconsider like entrepreneurship?

[00:00:53]>> Almost all of them. As entrepreneurs, you you're building something that you believe is your baby. And it's [music] sad to see it not work. Just because somebody needs something does not mean that they will pay for it or they are able to pay for it. It's not the easiest thing to sell to Nigerian. They can drag you today. Tomorrow, they will love you.

[00:01:11]We have two heavens. One is selling hair for 300,000. Another one is selling hair for 1.2. But Nigerians are rushing that 1.2. Why?

[00:01:21]>> You've literally built several businesses with the same set of people over and over and over again. What about those people made them the right team for you?

[00:01:30]>> Maybe just choose partners based on vibes. You have to choose your partner based on skill and goal. The things that you don't have time to do or the things that you don't like doing should be outsourced.

[00:01:43]>> For any entrepreneur who's watching you right now, they want to see growth in 2026.

[00:01:48]What is one thing that they could change or like one thing that they could be could review about how they're doing their businesses that could guarantee them some change?

[00:01:54]>> One very big one is >> By the end of this episode, you go from guessing why your business isn't growing to understanding the exact behaviors, customer psychology shifts, and systems you can use to scale your business fast in 2026. Now, this conversation is with a co-founder who failed over 10 times before building what we now know as PiggyVest. Welcome, Ayo.

[00:02:20]>> Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:02:22]Thank you.

[00:02:22]>> Yes. And you know, prior to like the camera rolling, obviously we're talking about like different things about you outside of PiggyVest and your achievements with that, outside of your book. Paint me a typical day from your childhood. I want to be in the moment, hear what you're hear, see what you're seeing.

[00:02:36]>> So, my parents are not like entrepreneurial in the sense. So, I didn't I didn't get that side from from there.

[00:02:43]>> Mhm.

[00:02:43]>> I have two older sisters and and a younger brother. The way you have other families who maybe some of them are very book smart, right? Or some everyone is good at sports or something. My family's music.

[00:02:55]Right? It's a It's a very musical family. If If all my siblings and my cousins come together, it's it's like a concert.

[00:03:02]>> Oh, that's interesting.

[00:03:02]>> Yeah, you know, everyone plays so many different instruments.

[00:03:06]No one is shy. Everyone can speak to a crowd of 5,000.

[00:03:12]That being bold and confident side, we we we got that from you know, from my dad. And you know, my uncles, my aunties, my everyone. If I would look back at what made me confident enough to do the things that I I am doing now, I'll tell you it it all started from from that side of things or you know, >> Is there an instrument that you play or like is it that you sing for instance?

[00:03:34]>> There's no instrument that I've touched that I can't play.

[00:03:37]>> Oh, wow.

[00:03:37]>> Give me 5, 10, 15 minutes with it, I'll figure it out. And then it all depends on you know, if I want to improve on it or if I like it enough to >> to kind of continue with that.

[00:03:47]>> my primary instrument is the bass guitar.

[00:03:50]>> Yeah, and you you've talked about like you know, having boldness from like that experience, that musical experience, right? But another thing is that I've heard you say like you were born to sell.

[00:03:58]>> Uh-huh.

[00:03:59]>> Right?

[00:04:00]Is there a moment in like your childhood, for instance, that you recall selling something or that you recall that being like, "Oh, the moment where you knew like, okay, you know what? I actually can convince somebody to, you know, buy this thing."

[00:04:13]>> It wasn't really from my childhood cuz it was more from uni.

[00:04:20]>> Okay.

[00:04:20]>> I went to Covenant University and I've always been entrepreneurial. I've always looked for for gaps. I mean, as far back as I can remember, you know, from then.

[00:04:31]But I've done so many different things.

[00:04:33]The first thing I did in my my 100 level, I think I was a photographer.

[00:04:37]Yes. [snorts] And um in fact, the reason why I got into photography was not really for the love of photography.

[00:04:46]>> Mhm.

[00:04:46]>> It was because I saw that I can make money from doing something. The girls would come out on on a Sunday or, you know, on a Wednesday when we were supposed to go to chapel service and they'll be all dressed and, you know, looking nice. And then there's these photographers in front of their hostels and everyone's taking pictures, right?

[00:05:01]And they'll go sell, you know, these pictures to to to the girls. But this was about 20 2007.

[00:05:08]There was there were very few people that knew uh design.

[00:05:12]>> Yeah.

[00:05:13]>> I was one of those few people. Right?

[00:05:15]So, I had Photoshop. So, what I did was I begged my dad. I said, "Please, uh just give me printer and camera." My dad got that for me, right? And what I'll do is I'll go like a photographer, take pictures, go back to my hostel, uh edit those pictures. So, what you have as filters now that you can easily do with your phone, you had to go back to Photoshop that year to go and do it. So, that's what I'll do and I'll come back and I'll sell those pictures to the to the ladies at the same price.

[00:05:42]>> Mhm.

[00:05:42]>> So, everybody was rushing my work because it was airbrushed and it was, you know, yeah.

[00:05:46]>> I can I can I can almost like the effect that filters have now.

[00:05:49]>> Exactly. So, being able to sell that uh to people at that you know, I saw that opportunity and that that's basically what I wanted to do. I could I never went broke in in 100 level. I was always buying food for friends. So, um I've always seen gaps.

[00:06:06]Uh it changed in 200 level. I was I started a clothing line.

[00:06:10]>> Yeah.

[00:06:10]>> And it just it just kept changing until about uh maybe 400 level when I really got um into tech.

[00:06:17]>> Okay.

[00:06:17]>> But in all of this, my role was really just to sell something, right? And I just kept improving on that and I I don't know. I I enjoyed it. I enjoyed talking to people. I enjoyed telling them, "Oh, look at this thing and you know, this thing will work for you or you know, come and see this." I just really enjoyed it. Where people run away from sales and marketing, I run towards.

[00:06:37]>> And it's interesting that you're talking us through like your time in uni. There was a point where you were expelled. Why did you get expelled and how did you even come back to then like complete that education?

[00:06:46]>> Sometimes uh when life sets you back, it's just so that your marketing can be loud, right?

[00:06:51]>> [laughter] >> In school, I was always doing one business or the other.

[00:06:57]>> Okay.

[00:06:58]>> And one of the reasons I I mean, I went I went to Covenant University. You can't really go out of school. You can't. So, I I used to jump exactly a lot. I had phones in school. I had so many different things that I was selling. I got suspended first time, was suspended second time, then I got expelled.

[00:07:18]Actually, no. I got suspended first, I got expelled, then I got suspended again. I was really not the best I mean, I wasn't bad.

[00:07:28]>> Yeah.

[00:07:29]>> But I guess it was just wrong timing in in you know, doing some things, right? And then in school then, you couldn't have secular music, secular movies. You couldn't have all those things on your laptops, on your iPad.

[00:07:43]There was no iPad then, what am I saying? All stuff like that, right? So, if you get into trouble for anything, then they will check all these things.

[00:07:50]Ah, you even they're listening to Yeah, yeah, contraband. Right, so I got into trouble multiple times. But then I got called back. So, after you know, they reviewed the evidences and things like that. So, I got called back. So, I still went back to finish from community service. So, I do I I had a year setback.

[00:08:12]>> at any point concerned about like those suspensions? Or you were just like, you know what, I got to do what I got to do?

[00:08:17]>> think that you get into trouble until you get into the trouble, right? I'm very grateful for the kind of family that I come from.

[00:08:24]Although back then was very sad to disappoint your parents who have worked really hard to put you in, you know, a good spot like this. But I remember the time when I I I got expelled and then I had to go home. When I got home and I was scared, right? I was like, oh, my dad is going to kill me. And then he came back and I remember I was sitting at the dining table cuz the the entrance is right behind. I was sitting at the dining table. I couldn't face the door.

[00:08:54]He came back. He just hit me. I remember he said, "Oh, boy, how far now? So, what are we going to do?"

[00:08:58]And we just I remember, you know, crying that night because I didn't expect I thought, man, all hell is going to break Yeah, yeah. But, you know, my parents are very supportive. It's a very core memory for me because it made me understand the true meaning of of support and our family. Back then in school, I wasn't thinking, "Oh, I was going to get into trouble or anything." I mean, I was doing what I was doing. I wasn't supposed to be doing it based on school rules. But it's not also like I didn't care about school. I did. But I also saw an opportunity and I and I had other people were doing it.

[00:09:33]Like I said, I was just unlucky.

[00:09:35]>> [laughter] >> I was just in my own It was just wrong >> Yeah. You know when they say don't do something >> Something and then the one time or like the time that you do it is when >> somebody you >> Yes. Yes.

[00:09:45]>> That's it for me.

[00:09:46]>> For you it wasn't like you were passionate about photography, right? You saw an opportunity there to make money and you zoomed in on that, right? Also, a part of your experiences include you kicking off almost 12 or over 10 businesses, right? Which failed before you then launched Piggy Vest. Was it the same mindset that you use where it's just like you're seeing things where you could potentially make money from and then going into those things or what informed you kind of like trying out all these different things across different industries?

[00:10:13]>> Being able to create value. That's really the center of it. If you create value, you make money from it.

[00:10:18]>> Before we dive deeper, I want to take a quick moment to tell you about the partner that has made this conversation possible.

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[00:10:59]>> Seeing opportunities and gaps in you know, there's a need here or there's this type of business that you can start that people need something or you can create this product around this and then try to to sell it to people. At the end of the day, you are providing some sort of value to the end user. So, for me and my, you know, partners at the time, we enjoyed building. We enjoyed creating different products. I enjoyed selling them for sure.

[00:11:29]My other partners they had different skill sets and it was just it was beautiful to come together and then try different things. One that took off at some time, it had a very very nice, you know, take off. But somewhere, you know, along was it was it was called PushCV. Yeah. Right, on PushCV, we just really wanted to help people get jobs. And it came out of us trying to recruit. We couldn't find people for one other product. So, we said, you know what, let's create this small thing that will help other people.

[00:11:59]And then that kind of took off at the time. I think this was 2014 thereabouts. So, for us, it was just being able to deliver some sort of value. And if you do that well enough long enough, uh you make you make good money from it. You might not be passionate about the thing, >> Mhm.

[00:12:15]>> but the passion comes from building something.

[00:12:19]>> Did any one of those businesses, for instance, break you or make you reconsider like entrepreneurship, maybe it's time to go find a job?

[00:12:26]>> Almost all of them.

[00:12:28]>> [laughter] >> Because as entrepreneurs, you you're building something that you believe is your baby.

[00:12:33]>> Yeah.

[00:12:33]>> A lot of times, you know, we we hold on to something that we've poured all our sweat, all our energy, you know, that equity you've put it into something.

[00:12:41]>> Mhm.

[00:12:41]>> And it's sad to see it not work. And a lot of times, the entrepreneurs that get stuck in that mood. They get stuck in that this is my baby.

[00:12:51]>> Yeah.

[00:12:51]>> I don't I don't want to give it up.

[00:12:54]>> Mhm.

[00:12:54]>> But it's good to fail fast. All right, it's very good to fail fast, especially when you've tried and you've seen that okay, this is not going to work, and you're being less emotional and more data-driven.

[00:13:06]It's good to fail fast, if not, you you'll be stuck. There are a lot of them, a lot of those businesses, you're like, I don't know, you'll be like, say, maybe we go. But in that, you're thinking of the next thing.

[00:13:18]That's what we're always thinking of.

[00:13:19]You know, the next thing to do, the next business to start, or the next opportunity that we see. Not necessarily going back to maybe getting a job or something like that. Although that did happen to my sister.

[00:13:34]>> [laughter] >> Funny story, my dad for for a long time he was very upset, you know, with with me and the guys because he sent his princess to school, you know, to do her MBA in the UK, hustled all this money just so that his princess can can grow, you know, yeah yeah you know, she comes back, she gets a great job, you know, in the finance space, but my sister has also always been somewhat of a leader in everything that she does. And then she looks at these boys that are drinking garri in, you know, in daddy's house every day. You wake up in the morning, we dress up like I said we're going to work. It's a lie, we're going downstairs, that's our work anyways, that's our office in the parlor and they were there, you know, with computers and stuff and she's like she wants to join these people that are not bringing any money to the house. They're just consuming. My dad was like, "Ah, you know, how can you, you know, blah blah blah. You have this job, blah blah blah." And you know, but she's like, "No, she wants to build." She likes the fact that we're we're building something. Yes, a few of them have failed, but you know. So, I think my dad had more of those of that thing that you just talked about where he's like, "Please don't Yeah, just go go back to working or something." Because it wasn't rosy for a long time. So, my my my sister you know, faced that. But but for us, we just wanted to start the next thing.

[00:14:56]>> You said something about failing fast.

[00:14:58]That's somewhat contrary to what, you know, certain founders also preach where it's like, "Give it 10 years, you know, give it 5 years. Make sure you do everything that you can." How were you able to tell when it was time to give one thing up to move to the next thing?

[00:15:12]>> Sometimes you ask yourself, is it time to move on or should I just hold on long enough?

[00:15:18]>> Yes.

[00:15:18]>> And then, you know, we'll be able to That's why it's it's it's better to be less emotional about something.

[00:15:25]>> Mhm.

[00:15:26]>> All right. When you look at what the numbers are saying, you look at what the market is saying.

[00:15:30]Need does not equal market. Need does not equal, you know, money. Just because somebody needs something does not mean that they will pay for it or they are able to pay for it.

[00:15:41]>> Mhm.

[00:15:42]>> So, what business are you building? What product are you developing? What value do you want to give? Are Are there people that are willing to pay for that?

[00:15:50]>> Mhm.

[00:15:51]>> If you want to build something and do something, it could become a hobby. If you're not looking to make money from it, it can become a hobby and you can have a great time doing that.

[00:15:58]>> But, if you are truly an entrepreneur and a business person, you need to look, is this thing making money? Can it make money? Are people willing and able to pay for it? If your answer is no, then you can decide to to make it a hobby and be fine with it and be okay with that.

[00:16:16]>> There are small business owners like who are probably watching, right?

[00:16:19]>> Yes.

[00:16:19]>> So, they started this business.

[00:16:21]>> Yes.

[00:16:21]>> They've maybe been at it for 2 years, 3 years, right? It hasn't grown to the extent that they want it to grow to.

[00:16:26]>> Yeah.

[00:16:27]>> What are some of the pointers that they should look out for to now be able to decide like, okay, like if you tick yes across these four things, for instance, maybe that's not a business that would thrive.

[00:16:37]>> Mhm.

[00:16:37]>> Or if it ticks these other boxes, then maybe that's something that you you should continue to put your effort, time, and money into. What would those be?

[00:16:44]>> So, typically, are people willing to pay for it?

[00:16:47]>> Mhm.

[00:16:47]>> Are people able to pay for it? And how much can it scale?

[00:16:53]All right? So, if people are willing to pay for it, then that's fantastic. You have something going, right? Are they able to pay for it? If the answer is yes to that, then wow, you know, you should definitely jump in there. Um How much of it can it scale? Does it make enough business sense for you to invest all this time and energy in? And then there's growth in different scales, right? If you go from 100 to 1,000, you you you've grown. If that is, you know, good enough in that space where you are at, fantastic. You're doing something.

[00:17:21]If you can feed from that, if you can, you know, do all your other things from from making the money that your business makes, that's fine. There's so many people that, you know, have very small shops.

[00:17:32]>> Yeah.

[00:17:32]>> There are people that sell by the roadside.

[00:17:34]>> Yeah.

[00:17:34]>> They're living. They're They're They have homes, you know, they they are probably paying school fees at a certain, you know, social level.

[00:17:41]>> Mhm.

[00:17:42]>> And that is fine for them. And, you know, a lot of them are very happy.

[00:17:45]>> Yeah.

[00:17:45]>> There are people on the other hand that, you know, um they're doing big businesses and they're doing it on a bigger scale. So, it depends on the scale that you want to be in.

[00:17:53]>> Yeah.

[00:17:54]>> For me, if you can answer those three questions perfectly and fine, and it suits you, then if the answer is no, then it's a hobby.

[00:18:02]>> So, what if, for instance, like, okay, yes, people This is a need people have.

[00:18:06]People are willing to pay for it.

[00:18:07]>> And able.

[00:18:08]>> People People are willing and able to pay for it. There's possibilities for it to scale because I've seen similar businesses in the industry scaling.

[00:18:15]However, mine isn't, right? Do I continue to do it?

[00:18:19]>> You then need to look at what you're doing or what what you may be doing wrong.

[00:18:23]In tech, there's a joke.

[00:18:25]You know, sometimes you hear of untapped market.

[00:18:28]>> Mhm.

[00:18:28]>> When you enter it, you know why it's untapped.

[00:18:30]>> [laughter] >> So, like, >> That's so interesting.

[00:18:34]>> that you need You you You need to look at what may you be doing wrong.

[00:18:38]>> Yes.

[00:18:38]>> Right? And a lot of times is emotion.

[00:18:40]That's the truth. You need to be fluid enough to change direction. Uh you you might want to get to this point, right?

[00:18:47]You know, you don't have to go straight or you don't have to follow the same thing other people are following. Or if it's a business in another market, you need to look at that market, you know, is it suited for that business? If you're trying to do it in your market, what do you need to do differently? You need to answer all those questions without emotion. Don't Don't be emotional about it.

[00:19:04]>> Mhm.

[00:19:04]>> You know, don't be like, you know, it's my baby. I want to do it this way. This is This is a vision I had and this is how I want to do it. Yeah, your vision will, you know, come to fruition. But, there's so many pathways to it.

[00:19:16]>> And I know that's something that you've done, right? Even prior to like Piggybank and all the other things and the books that you've written Credit Alert is you also were a consultant to a lot of small businesses. Through that experience, what three mistakes do you think like a lot of Nigerian entrepreneurs make?

[00:19:30]>> One very big one is and it has to do with money.

[00:19:34]A lot of entrepreneurs mix business money and personal money.

[00:19:40]It's a thing. Right? You know, when they sell this product, before you know it, man, they're balling with the money.

[00:19:47]Don't do that.

[00:19:48]>> Mhm.

[00:19:49]>> You know, take your business is not you. Your business is a separate entity. Right?

[00:19:54]You have to be able to detach those two people. Your business can be making money, you are broke.

[00:20:00]You get or you can be rich or making money, but your business is is broke.

[00:20:06]Don't think it's the same thing.

[00:20:08]So, that's one uh >> You see it.

[00:20:11]>> mistake that's that entrepreneurs make.

[00:20:13]Another one is not having the right team.

[00:20:17]I know staffing is very hard, especially in Nigeria.

[00:20:20]Uh it's it's one thing that gives a lot of entrepreneurs headaches. Even your core team, if you don't have the right team, you you can't really go far. Some people don't don't put enough time uh and enough thought into the kind of people that they have around and how they do work. So, many people don't reinvest in their businesses. You know, they make all this money and the profit is >> Out.

[00:20:42]>> Exactly. And I think that also just comes from you know, how far you want to grow.

[00:20:48]There's some people out there that are okay with where they are. Don't don't disturb them.

[00:20:51]>> They're not really trying to scale.

[00:20:52]>> to stay Yeah, I'm staying good, you know, I'm chilling. And and some people want to take over the world. I like to sit around the people that want to take over the world because it gingers me as well.

[00:21:01]>> Some entrepreneurs, especially when they're young and just starting out, they think that it's commendable when they say things like, "Oh, yes, I don't have a salary because the business is just growing. What do you say to people like that?

[00:21:11]>> You should pay yourself first. Like they think it's a nice thing to do, you know, you come out and you say >> sacrifice >> Yes, sacrifice. But it's it's also because you're not thinking that you are different from the business. If you can separate yourself from the business then you should know you're a staff and you should be paid. Now, whether that pay >> [clears throat] [laughter] >> whether that pay is big enough or small enough, yeah, your numbers will tell, right? But even if you'll be paid 1,000 Naira >> Mhm.

[00:21:39]>> be paid something.

[00:21:40]>> Is there a formula for like oh, you know, it should be 10% of or >> There really is no formula. I don't have a formula for that. You look at your numbers and you see okay, what what is what I might be worth this today, but you know, with what is in our pocket we cannot yeah. So, but this is what we will do because you have to eat, no matter what you're going through. Just eat.

[00:21:59]>> [laughter] >> You have to eat, you know, you have to be able to think. If I hear any founder saying oh, you know, I've done I'll say please pay yourself. It's very important. It's good to try and raise money if you if you need to. If you can't pay yourself as little as you can.

[00:22:13]>> Now, how does a young entrepreneur think about setting up their team? How should they think about that initial crucial team building? Who are the people that they should be looking for to start with so that they don't also overspend in that regard as well?

[00:22:26]>> The things that you don't have time to do or the things that you don't like doing should be outsourced. You might like to be the one to take calls or you know, be a customer service, speak to people and stuff, but because of what you're doing you don't have time to do that. So, you need somebody that is really good and that likes to do that. If your strength is in writing code, but you don't know how to market or your strength is in the operations, >> Yeah.

[00:22:52]>> but you don't know how to write code or you don't know how to sell, >> Mhm.

[00:22:56]>> you need to get people who that is that is their strength. And that way you are a football team, you're are football team. You understand me? Not so many strikers can go and keep >> [laughter] >> True.

[00:23:07]>> It will be disastrous. A good team is when you look at the field and everybody's playing their roles perfectly. Initially, you might not be able to afford the best people for those roles.

[00:23:19]>> Yeah.

[00:23:20]>> On the co-founder side, you know, you're lucky. You guys can drink garri together until everybody can, you know, afford it. Exactly. But if you have to hire, you can hire on your level. You don't have to go and meet an Ebuka or an IK to come and host your your event. You can't afford them. But there's somebody on your level that is also good, as passionate about it, and is growing.

[00:23:41]You probably don't want him because maybe he's not as popular, but you you can start there.

[00:23:45]Right? Same thing with hiring on any different different different role.

[00:23:49]>> Let's throw it back to your own team.

[00:23:51]You've literally built several businesses with the same set of people over and over and over again. What about those people made them the right team for you?

[00:24:00]>> I always make a joke about the fact that we have shared trauma.

[00:24:06]And that's why we're still together. Not everyone is as lucky as we are.

[00:24:11]>> Mhm.

[00:24:11]>> We're lucky enough to be a group of people who complemented each other skill-wise. So we could go longer, you know, even when things were were were tough.

[00:24:23]>> Mhm.

[00:24:23]>> I don't have to look for or hire someone else to do something because my co-founder >> Someone younger.

[00:24:30]>> can do it. Funny thing about finance as well, I mean, we we've been in the in the finance None of us, except maybe my sister, was core finance.

[00:24:40]>> That's also interesting.

[00:24:41]>> Yeah. None of us, but we learned on the go.

[00:24:45]Right? Every Almost everybody now is like, "Yeah, you know, maybe we can write What do they call it? CFE or code and stuff like that." I'm not amongst them.

[00:24:54]>> [laughter] >> But we had to learn on the go. And not everybody needs to be able to do that same thing, right? There are a few people who, okay, very very they know the numbers, very good at that. There are a few people who um can market and sell the product. There are a few people who can build, who can be you can design. And everyone focused on the things that they really wanted to they love to do the way we started and they grew and improved themselves on it over and over. We just kept getting better and better and better. So, apart from shared trauma, >> Yeah.

[00:25:29]>> uh we had a common goal. You know, those things allowed us and we're like a small little family. You know, uh so those things allowed us to bond real real well. It's not like we don't fight. Uh we fight all the time. In fact, just yesterday, you know, on the group, we were still talking, you know.

[00:25:46]In every relationship, to be honest, if you have a common goal and you guys can build trust, you you you'll go far.

[00:25:53]>> When you look at your team and each person's strength, where it's just like we would not have been able to achieve everything that we've achieved if we didn't have this this What are those What is your group? What is it made out of?

[00:26:04]>> So many different things. One thing I would say is be around people who make you grow.

[00:26:09]>> Okay.

[00:26:09]>> Because you said something about the skill set that they bring to the table is what makes Yeah. Because if you're around people that make you grow, you you will not want to slack. If you're not growing, it's either you don't have the strength to push it yourself, you you don't you don't have a goal that you're trying to reach, or you don't have people around you who are growing.

[00:26:27]>> Pushing you.

[00:26:27]>> Yeah, because if you have people around you who are growing, where you see that ah um this guy knows this thing, he didn't know it last [clears throat] week. Let me go and check my own.

[00:26:35]Because whenever he sits down and have we have conversations and stuff, you don't want to be the one that is slacking.

[00:26:41]>> Yeah.

[00:26:41]>> My team My team is uh uh call us the mafia.

[00:26:47]The piggy mafia, yes. They do. I'm very grateful to God for making me bold enough to do the things I had to do that time to be in this team that I'm in now.

[00:27:02]I'm very grateful to every one of them because we've complemented each other so much. Somebody's good at the numbers, somebody's good at the operations, someone is good at marketing, someone is good at design, someone is good at people. Everyone is good at something and it makes us a whole team.

[00:27:19]>> What is one thing for instance that you would say get wrong when they're trying to choose their partners?

[00:27:23]>> I don't know. I think people maybe just choose partners based on vibes and >> [laughter] >> like oh my god, maybe this person will look good on this or maybe they want to partner with you have to choose your partner based on skill and goal. Is this person able to do the things that you can't and vice versa and do you have the same goal? Are you going to the same place?

[00:27:48]If [snorts] you're not going to the same place, you can't be together. Even in romantic relationships, it's the same thing. Is this a person able to complement me in areas where I am lacking? Do we share the same values and the same goals? If the answer is no, yeah, you guys are just you're just flexing. Maybe you're still too young. I don't know.

[00:28:06]>> [laughter] >> You all decided to build PiggyVest. From the point where it was like oh, let's do this to then actually having a product that people could use. What was that journey like?

[00:28:17]>> So, it was in different phases.

[00:28:19]>> Mhm.

[00:28:19]>> PiggyVest was not an idea that, you know, dropped out of heaven somewhere, right? Joshua has talked a lot about it.

[00:28:25]It was less than a month before we had like a first version.

[00:28:29]Someone had built a first version of it and then we had gone back to the person, you know, that, you know, was talking about it on Twitter. I said, "Look, see, we have this small thing or come on."

[00:28:38]And I think our first year we we did about 21 million in naira in in savings.

[00:28:45]Um those numbers are in seconds now.

[00:28:48]Basically >> Yes, yes, yes.

[00:28:50]>> So, um, it's been a very long journey and one thing that helped us to grow is we we listen to the users.

[00:28:58]Our users trust us so much. So, we're building a product that is very heavily relied on trust.

[00:29:04]>> Yes.

[00:29:05]>> People have to trust that, you know, they're going to do what you say they're going to do. My money is safe.

[00:29:11]>> Yes.

[00:29:11]>> And the community of Piggyvestors, right? Our users you need to meet them. You need to see them. We have this thing that we call we call open house where we go around different cities of Nigeria and then we meet with the users of Piggyvest. It's it's beautiful. You should see how they are. You see, it's really beautiful to just connect and talk with people. So, Piggyvest as a product has grown from, you know, uh, inception idea phase you know, when we saw an idea to to what it is now. It's just so many different the too many uh, points. I don't even know which one to talk about. There's too many points where things had to change or things had to grow. But, one thing is we listen to the users and that is how the product grew.

[00:29:57]>> One of the things that you said I find very vital is the business in itself is built on trust, right? And Nigerians are not people that really trust. If anything, we're we're skeptical first and we're like, "This is a scam first before thinking that this is something." And so, you were able to do that not just for them to just trust you, but also trust you to the point where they actually giving you their money, right?

[00:30:16]Hard earned money. How did you do that?

[00:30:19]>> Your product has to do what it says it's going to do. That's the first thing. It has to work. We are human beings. Even as Nigerians, we like to relate with We don't There's a brand, but I want to know who is behind that brand. Trust is built over time.

[00:30:34]Right? You trust uh, people that you can relate to. Our users know where to find us. They know where Odun, you know, comes to or likes to We're approachable.

[00:30:43]You know, this we see um um, a lot of our users maybe outside and you know, they come we have conversations. We're not mightier than thou, you know, I'm not unreachable. We're not going anywhere.

[00:30:55]We love Nigeria. A lot of these things um help with building trust. If you see a business owner that they love what they are doing, they love their users. What what I'm doing is is not is not for me because I have a need, you have a need, she has a need. This thing can help us, right? And let's grow it together.

[00:31:14]>> Mhm.

[00:31:15]>> All our users benefit from the fact that PiggyVest grows because you put your money there, you save your money there, you invest your money there, it comes out um more than what what you put there.

[00:31:27]So, building trust has been a very long-term game for us.

[00:31:31]>> What are some of the things that have formed the most learning for you when you think about like running PiggyVest, especially from a sales perspective?

[00:31:38]>> Joshua wrote something a couple of days ago, uh basically spilled some secrets.

[00:31:44]And it was about open house. Probably one of the best things that we've done.

[00:31:49]>> Yeah.

[00:31:50]>> A space where we can just sit down with our users like this and just gist about stuff and talk about stuff. That was the birth of so many different features, so many different paths that we took in building PiggyVest. Just being able to sit down with the people that are using it like you and I and just like, "Hey, what do you think about this? Or what are your core you know, challenges that you are facing? And how can we help?" In a fun environment, it's not, you know, >> Yeah.

[00:32:23]>> playing ball in one corner.

[00:32:25]You know, it's really really nice. I'd say maybe not starting that earlier if if I wanted to say anything because to be honest, it's probably one of the best things that we we've we've done.

[00:32:35]>> Moving away from PiggyVest, you've recently [clears throat] written this book, >> Yes. Credit Alert, which obviously goes into selling to Nigerian. Beyond being a Nigerian, how do you know so much about how to sell to Nigerians?

[00:32:48]>> I work cuz I've been I've been doing it for a long time. Nigerians are a unique set of people.

[00:32:56]>> Yeah.

[00:32:57]>> Again, I've been selling to Nigerians for a long time.

[00:33:00]Tell you a very interesting thing about Nigerians just to kind of give you an idea of how we think.

[00:33:05]>> Yeah.

[00:33:06]>> Nigerians are what what we, not Nigerians, we all of us, all right?

[00:33:10]We are a set of people that would go to a party >> Mhm.

[00:33:13]>> [clears throat] >> Yeah.

[00:33:14]>> Like I said, I've said this many times.

[00:33:16]We'll buy cash with money. Money with money.

[00:33:20]>> Uh-huh.

[00:33:20]>> All right, just yeah, at at a 20% markup just so that we can give out and spray that money. How do you explain that to a foreigner?

[00:33:27]>> They're never going to understand.

[00:33:28]>> They can't understand. I need mints. I need mints. Why?

[00:33:31]>> So, because there needs to be new notes.

[00:33:32]>> New notes. I'll pay you 35K for 20K so that I'll just go and throw that.

[00:33:38]We think very very differently and in order to thrive in a in a space like this, you need to understand the way Nigerians think. And in trying to understand, you know, the way Nigerians think, you have a great time. You have an amazing time. You will laugh. You'll be like, "Ah, wow." If you've ever had the opportunity to follow Mumsy to the market, >> the haggling.

[00:33:58]>> Right? You know, somebody will call, "Ah, madam, this thing is 7,000." Mumsy will say, "1, 2."

[00:34:04]>> I know.

[00:34:05]>> I know this. They like like 1, 2. Where do you even want to meet? This woman, "You're wicked, oh." But it's culture.

[00:34:12]>> Mhm.

[00:34:12]>> And and Nigerians have a way of doing the things that they do. And if you understand that, um if you're able to tap into the way that they think, what makes, you know, them bring out their money, >> Mhm.

[00:34:22]>> you'll do very well in in in this space.

[00:34:24]>> What so what do you think is the like a misconception people have about selling to Nigerians?

[00:34:29]>> A misconception that that is is easy. It's not the easiest thing to sell to a Nigerian. They can drag you today, right? Tomorrow, they will love you. And but you think you think that love will last?

[00:34:43]If you do something else, you know, they can drag you, you know, another day.

[00:34:47]Selling to Nigerians it takes a unique skill set. You need to understand it. So, some people come into this market thinking that, ah, you know, oh, maybe because I sell abroad >> Yeah.

[00:34:56]>> or, you know, what I do in those markets, you just come here and bring your product. They come in there in in it, you know, English and and you know, they want to sell to it's it's not the easiest thing to do. We will We'll tell you to calm down.

[00:35:07]>> In terms of just like selling, you've written the book and I believe like you have an entire ecosystem around like Credit Alerts. Do you want to talk to us a little bit about that?

[00:35:14]>> Credit Alerts is is a book. The easiest way is to to sell to Nigerians. It just basically helps you understand the way understand the way Nigerians think. It helps you know what, like I said before, makes you know, them bring out their money. Helps you know how to make them pick you, you know, over all these other different many products, you know, that are in the market. They keep choosing you every single time. It's an an easy-to-read book. If If you're looking for a Harvard-style book, it's not that one.

[00:35:44]Please drop my book. Please. It's not It's not that. It's like a novel. It's It's like a story. Has so many different stories from so many different amazing Nigerian entrepreneurs.

[00:35:55]>> Are these entrepreneurs you've worked with or >> Yeah, some of them that I've worked with. Some of them that I've studied.

[00:35:59]Some of them that I've looked at and I'm like, wow, okay, this person understands >> He's getting something right.

[00:36:04]>> This person understands the Nigerian market. And sometimes you you wonder how you you see this person, you think, okay, maybe this person is small because maybe they're very humble or they're very If you look at the numbers going through their books, you'll be like, until how far? So, the book tells you a lot about that. It's like gist. You know, there's a gist about um There's a gist about a pastor who's come to many people. One very popular pastor in this in this uh >> With offering and title?

[00:36:30]>> Huh.

[00:36:31]It's there. Go and read it.

[00:36:32]>> [laughter] >> Around it uh there's a website. There's a grant that has been on.

[00:36:38]>> Okay.

[00:36:39]>> It comes in audio version. Uh currently the current on audio version is voiced by myself and Bam Bam Atalu.

[00:36:47]>> Okay.

[00:36:48]>> And there's the ebook as well. So it's it's just an easy read. It's an amazing book.

[00:36:52]>> who is considering like, you know what?

[00:36:53]I want to know if I'm going to get this book or not. What What is the one thing that your book promises?

[00:36:58]>> You laugh.

[00:36:59]>> [laughter] >> It's such an interesting book. You would love it. You you laugh. But then you would learn how to sell to a Nigerian.

[00:37:07]If you have a business and you weren't making sales >> Yeah.

[00:37:10]>> I guarantee you to read this book right?

[00:37:13]And then do what it says for the next 30 to 60 days. If your business does not change, come and hold my neck. I'm serious. Like come hold my shirt. Drag me. Drag me anywhere.

[00:37:25]>> Yeah.

[00:37:25]>> There's some things that are just very simple. We we make the mistake of overcomplicating the problem. So we say, "Oh, this thing is so simple to do. It can It cannot be the issue. That cannot be the issue now.

[00:37:36]No, the issue is deeper than No, sometimes it's right in front of you.

[00:37:40]But because it's so close, you can't see it. This book exposes all of that to us.

[00:37:44]>> Also, for some people who don't even realize like they might be doing some things wrong. Say like two people in the same industry, they're selling the same thing. But one person is excelling. That business is on the verge of dying. What do you think that entrepreneur isn't getting right?

[00:37:57]>> There's so many things that they could not be getting right. I mean, in my book you have two hair vendors, right?

[00:38:02]They're selling One is selling hair for 300,000 uh 200,000. And then one is selling hair for 1.2. But Nigerians are rushing that 1.2. Why? As an entrepreneur and to be able to to be able to sell, you need to understand the market that you are in.

[00:38:19]You cannot carry uh something that you saw somewhere from from you know, Japan and come and sell the same way in Nigeria. You fail. You know, you need to be able to understand the way Nigerians think. So, it's very possible that that person, if the person is in a certain market, understands the market that they are in, while the other business does not.

[00:38:42]>> I think something that you've said is like know the people that you're trying to sell to, right? Which, you know, some people would interpret as like knowing your target market and things like that.

[00:38:50]For instance, think of that vendor. She starts to sell at 200. There's a counterpart who is selling at 1.2. Can that person go from that 200 to 1.2?

[00:38:58]>> To make money, uh there is kind of like a spectrum, right? Um is either you sell um something really cheap or affordable to a lot of people.

[00:39:09]Or you sell something that is very expensive to a select few. The richest man in Africa right now uh started off from selling salt, sugar, cement to a a lot of people. There are so many wealthy people as well that sell very, you know, small things to a select few. So, you have to know where you want to play.

[00:39:30]>> Well, either ways, I guess none of it will be easy anyways.

[00:39:32]>> None of it is easy, right? But, you need to know where you want to play and focus on that. I'm not going to spill too many secrets. It's in the book, you know, and it's very affordable.

[00:39:43]>> You say it's affordable. What is what is affordable?

[00:39:45]>> Uh it's 15,000 Naira.

[00:39:48]But, the value you get out of that is what over 10 million.

[00:39:51]They are getting 10 million Naira worth of of value for 15k.

[00:39:56]>> For any entrepreneur who's watching you right now, who is thinking about their business, it's not where they where they want it to be, they want to see growth in 2026. What is one thing that they could change or like one thing that they could review about how they're doing their businesses that could guarantee them some change or some level of success in 2026?

[00:40:13]>> The Nigerian in me would say pray. You have to pray.

[00:40:17]Very important. But the business side of me will say look at your numbers, right?

[00:40:21]Look at your numbers, look at your market.

[00:40:23]Uh answer those questions that we talked about um earlier. If you can sit down, answer those questions, you look at your numbers, you look at your market, then you decide am I in the right path or not? Do I need to, you know, go a little bit left or a little bit right, you know, still having my goal in mind? Or do I need to have another baby?

[00:40:44]>> Mhm.

[00:40:45]>> You need to sit down answer those questions. One when you uh sit with yourself for a while and you answer those questions, you will know the direction to take. So, every entrepreneur listening right now, sit down with yourself, answer those questions, and then decide okay, what am I going to do and how am I going to move? Another thing I would say which is very important is mentorship. I need to really stress that. A lot of people they don't think it is important.

[00:41:11]>> Mhm.

[00:41:11]>> You know, or they look at it. They hear that buzzword all the time, but they don't they don't actually do it. But as an entrepreneur, wherever you want to get to, there are people that have gotten there already. So, it's best for you to find people who are optimized for the level that you want to >> to be at. Mhm.

[00:41:25]>> And then go and learn from them. You know, you don't need to learn from your mistakes. You can learn from other people's mistakes. So, go and hold somebody's trouser that has done what you want to do. And and and just, you know, follow suit and you'll be fine.

[00:41:38]>> Yeah. And I guess also in holding your trouser, it's not to mean sometimes it might not even be physically because you might not have access to that person, right?

[00:41:44]>> Yeah, but if it's physically, please try.

[00:41:46]But you know, it doesn't have to be physical. You know, you can, you know, watch people online, people who want to um do what you're doing right now. They just need to It's not every time just going on your story and then be like, "Wow, so cute."

[00:42:00]No, look at what she's doing. Sometimes she's giving you tips. Right? You need to study what she's doing, you know, reach out, ask, "How can I be of of value to you with what you are doing?"

[00:42:11]And sometimes helping someone achieve their goal, you know, opens the door for you to achieve yours.

[00:42:17]>> So, we're about to get into your rapid fire questions.

[00:42:21]So, let's go.

[00:42:22]>> Okay.

[00:42:23]>> Coffee or tea?

[00:42:24]>> Coffee.

[00:42:25]>> Early bird or night owl?

[00:42:27]>> Night owl.

[00:42:28]>> First app you check in the morning?

[00:42:29]>> Pivest.

[00:42:31]>> [laughter] >> That was a seamless plug, guys. I'm I'm I'm sorry.

[00:42:34]>> Favorite Let me say again. Favorite Nigerian food?

[00:42:37]>> Amala.

[00:42:38]>> Savings or investment first?

[00:42:39]>> Savings.

[00:42:40]>> Favorite investment type?

[00:42:41]>> Wow.

[00:42:42]Um I wasn't ready for that.

[00:42:45]Um savings.

[00:42:46]>> Okay. Text or call?

[00:42:48]>> Call.

[00:42:48]>> Ayo, thank you so much. Now, sharing the truth about selling to Nigerians and the systems needed to scale has been priceless. You've gotten the system blueprint right here. Now, if you want to dive deeper into Ayo's strategy, I'd say grab his book Credit Alert. It's the essential manual for making those next steps happen. Now, on the next episode, we tackle the biggest business differentiator, loyalty. Because you know what? You can have the best system, right? But real growth comes from clients who trust you enough to come back again and again. So, don't miss the episode with Adetounke Adetufaly.

[00:43:22]She breaks down how she grew a Lagos hair service into a brand so trusted her clients literally fly out across continents. Now, if this is a conversation that you're interested in or that you have loved, please don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a comment. I'll see you on the next episode.

[00:43:39]>> Thank you for coming.

[00:43:41]>> Ah, thank you. Wow.

[00:43:43]>> to present this to you.

[00:43:44]>> Wow, wow. Thank you so much, Ayo. Thank you so much. Wow, this is amazing. Thank you.