New Strictly Hosts / Supermarket Price Caps / Jail For Benefit Frauds | Jeremy Vine 200526

追加: 2026-05-22

[00:02:00]today. Do we need a price cap on essential food? Should all benefits cheats be jailed and our council's right to reuse graves? With me, Jeremy Vine.

[00:02:19]Morning. Welcome to the show. It is the 20th of May and I'm joined by businesswoman Sylvia Tidy Harris and lawyer Paula Ron Adrian and we have the applause button. Brilliant. Here's what's on the show. First, do we need a price cap on essential food? Rachel Reeves is pressuring supermarkets to freeze the prices of basics like milk, eggs, and bread. 3 million households are skipping meals due to the cost of living. Do we need to cap food costs?

[00:02:47]Supermarkets say they're already doing all they can to keep prices low. And then should all benefits cheats be jailed? It is a serious crime. A woman who said she was housebound has been caught out after she was photographed running a 10K. Helen, this is unreal.

[00:03:01]Helen Green claimed 25 grand in benefits. She's just been jailed for 7 months. This isn't the first case like this. Do we need to crack down on benefit cheats? And our council's right to reuse graves. The town in Harper is running out of burial space, so it's having to reuse more than 900 plots. The council says they'll be handled with the utmost respect, but there are fears it'll upset relatives. In London, graves have been reused for years. So what?

[00:03:27]Then it's the papers and everything else, including Arsenal winning the Premier League for the first time in 22 years. And don't forget the rest of our brilliant daytime lineup, Storm, Alexis, Matt, Vanessa, taking your calls right through the day here online. I'll show you how to get in touch with today's film poster question. And here we go into Ellis cinema we go. Do you know which movie that is? Oh, great film.

[00:03:49]Answer later on. So 0207862 is the number to get in touch. 16 people a minute from a landline. Mobiles may be dearer but never sure how much dear worryingly. We have YouTube as well.

[00:04:02]This is exciting. We found this website called YouTube. The show's on at 4.

[00:04:06]Storm and Alexis are on at 6:00. Matt is on at 7. And Vanessa is on at 8.

[00:04:10]staggered on YouTube. Please do if you can like and subscribe if you go and join us on YouTube. Thank you. All right, Ella, show us this poster again.

[00:04:19]We will show you the answer later. Which film is that?

[00:04:24]It's a great movie. So, Sylvia's first time on the show and how lovely to see you.

[00:04:29]>> Thank you, Jeremy. I'm delighted to be here.

[00:04:31]>> Is it fair to say you've done a bit of everything? You were cabin crew, tour manager, worked with your dad, the famous cartoonist Bill Tidy. Now you're a talent Asian. Have we got a cabin crew picture? I feel we should see.

[00:04:43]>> Oh lordy. Were you a >> And you were 18 or something. Were you which >> that was at the end of my career. That was when I was about 24. But yeah, I was 18 when I started. And I was brownhaired and slim and uh Yeah, >> I'm trying to work out the airline from >> Monarch Airlines. One of the greatest >> um holiday airlines that ever was >> and closed recently.

[00:05:07]>> Yeah. just uh well actually it's nearly 10 years ago >> is it? Is it I saw Yeah, I watched that whole thing play out. So your tour manager I should mention your dad who was one of the great cartoonists and it's Bill Tidy.

[00:05:18]>> God bless him.

[00:05:19]>> But also very very famous sort of famous face. Was he on TV shows and stuff?

[00:05:24]>> Yes, he used to do Quick on the Draw and Blankety Blank and all of those sort of things. Um yeah, he he was a great dad.

[00:05:32]We had great Chucky eggs to eat in the morning because they always had faces on. Great birthday cards, Christmas cards.

[00:05:37]>> I think cartoons always funny >> when you I Let's just see. We got a one of uh some film I think of him actually drawing. So, let's just have a look. It does. This is only going to be time lapse. It does really amaze me how they do it and like it is just practice.

[00:05:52]>> Well, when you think he was 80 85 when he was drawing this and he was drawing this at the you know, it's not been speeded up. He was quick on the draw. He was very fast at at drawing and he drew um we've worked with autistic children um who who draw and they draw like my father does um as in it doesn't start with a head you know it might start with an arm or a leg or a pocket on a jacket and uh this is one of his most famous >> Oh this is the this is the famous one.

[00:06:24]So tell us what that cartoon is. So that's all the um relatives of all the people who sadly were lost on the Titanic and um somebody walks in with a polar bear and says, "Is there any news of the iceberg?"

[00:06:37]>> Yeah. And that became and and of course it's a bit precient that because it's the nobody ever thinks you've destroyed an iceberg with that ship and actually the polar bear. That's all >> humor because dad was a great believer.

[00:06:48]There was humor in the trenches. There was humor in the in the death camps.

[00:06:53]Humor is what keeps people alive and without that we're doomed.

[00:06:58]>> Did you when you were a little girl were you just drawing like him?

[00:07:02]>> No, I can't draw for toffee. My brothers could, but I couldn't. But and my art teacher was so horrible to me at school.

[00:07:09]Oh, you'll never draw like your dad.

[00:07:11]What she didn't know is that dad would do my homework for me and I'd just shade it in. So, she was actually criticizing it as well. Do >> you draw? Do you like to draw cartoons this time? I am useless. And you know the thing that they say about when children realize that their parents are human during lockdown, we we obviously spent a lot of time with the kids and uh one occasion they asked me to draw a horse and I looked at them and I was like and they're like, "Yeah, yeah, mommy, draw a horse. Draw a horse." And I drew something and they just looked at me and then just went back to their work and I was like, "That was it." You know, that was the >> horses are hard to draw. Thanks, Jeremy.

[00:07:50]>> No, they really are, Paula. But one of my kids just from being a little girl, if she wanted to get off some energy, she would just sit at the kitchen table and draw and draw and draw >> and and now she can really create stuff, you know.

[00:08:03]>> Yeah. People kids just loved it cuz they'd just sit there in awe and it used to keep all my friends children quiet when they were little so she and I could have a drink.

[00:08:14]>> Brilliant. Brilliant. So, we should talk about Strictly Come Dancing. The show's new hosts have been revealed.

[00:08:19]>> Oh, that's nice. Let's get that. Oh, that's the one. That is exquisite.

[00:08:25]>> What are you doing over there?

[00:08:28]>> Sure.

[00:08:28]>> Yes.

[00:08:29]>> Go on.

[00:08:29]>> We can't do without you.

[00:08:31]>> All right.

[00:08:34]>> That's the magic number.

[00:08:37]So, it's Emma Willis, Josh Whitikham, and Johannes Ratbeet, who will host the 24th series in the autumn, replacing, of course, the great test and Claudia, who announced they were leaving last year.

[00:08:47]We don't yet know which role each presenter will take on, but they'll have equal billing. And I guess also it goes back to when Bruce was alive and he had Tess and Claudia beside him. So, it's >> I don't know, it's a it's a bit of a respray for the show, isn't it? I think it is genius. Absolute genius. Because what we have here is we have the straight man as in comedic wise. You know, he's going to be the straight face but actually tell loads of fantastic welltimed jokes. That's in Josh. We're going to have Emma who brings the glamour and the professionalism. And then we're going to have Johannes who is the dancer that we love. And what we missed from Bruce, right, we miss having somebody who could actually join in and engage with the dancers on their level.

[00:09:34]>> Oh, okay. That's a good point cuz cuz Tess and Claudia were not themselves dancers.

[00:09:38]>> That's right. Yeah.

[00:09:39]>> Let's have a chat to the former Strictly Professional dancer Ian Wait. Hi, Ian.

[00:09:44]>> Good morning, Jeremy.

[00:09:45]>> So, we we sort of saw this coming a bit, didn't we? Because there were lots of leaks in the papers, but it still does look very different.

[00:09:52]>> Yes. the worstkept secret on earth, I think. Um, but uh, still a massive surprise. The most surprised for me was uh, Josh Whitikum. I really didn't expect it him to get the job. Although, um, I mean, there had to be that element of comedy because Claudia was so brilliant at that. I think Josh is genius. I think he is so funny. And for me, I think he'll be a fantastic addition to the show. And having three, not two, that takes us back to the years Bruce was alive, I suppose. Does it?

[00:10:27]>> Yeah, absolutely. That surprised me also. But I I'm so excited that we've got a Strictly legend in there, Joe Hannis. Um, he's doing it for the pros.

[00:10:37]He's so talented and it's about time.

[00:10:39]you know, those pros are, you know, we've been put in a box for so long and uh there's so many talented pros there that can present and sing and so many different things. Uh and to be recognized for that and bring a Strictly legend kind of back in that I I mean I know he was he was announced as a pro, but if they hadn't announced him as a pro, I think everybody would have been saying, "Hold on a sec. What is he doing then? Is he going to be on the show?" Uh and I think that would have gave the the game away. But I'm so pleased he's on there.

[00:11:10]>> And as for Emma, >> yeah, >> sorry.

[00:11:13]>> No, I was going to ask you about whether Strictly can now start to find its way beyond all the sort of the scandals and the ups and downs it's had.

[00:11:23]>> I I personally think that the format is so brilliant for Strictly. Uh it engages everybody. I don't think it matters who presents it, who's judging, um who's dancing. I think the format will always win through.

[00:11:38]Yeah, it's very interesting thinking, you know, they had these auditions and they they obviously tried out a lot of people in secret. I think Zoe B was probably one of them because she publicly said she'd been told she hadn't got it and and looking for chemistry would be it would be really brilliant to be a fly on the wall there, wouldn't it?

[00:11:55]>> Oh, yeah. I mean, she did tell me that she had a few chemistry tests with people and um I was desperate to know who, but she wouldn't tell me obviously.

[00:12:03]It was a massively well-kept secret. And um but she is totally gutted. Um I actually spoke to her this morning and and she said, "I'm still gutted. I didn't get the job." And you know, apparently they were they were going through the process for six months. So So it's a long time to be um to be waiting to be told whether you're going to be on the show or not, isn't it?

[00:12:26]>> Thanks so much, Ian. Wait, lovely to talk to you, Ian. And uh yeah, what do you think of the comedian Josh? Well, I'm I'm I'm not a fan of Strictly, which will probably make me very unpopular.

[00:12:37]Um, I used to watch it in the early days and then uh when they changed and the judges changed, etc., although I do really like Shirley Ballas. Um, I kind of lost interest in it. Uh, unless it was there was somebody on it that I knew. However, I think that I like Emma.

[00:12:54]I think she'll bring the the sort of professional presenter. Um, Johannes, I believe, is is such a spectacular human being and and so talented. I think they're keeping him for to be a judge one day. Um, I don't know that there needs to be a comedian, but maybe that's going to draw back the people that they may have lost in the early days who are going to come back. Will some of the people who've been fans up to now step back? Who knows? But I agree with Ian.

[00:13:23]It it does seem to be um a program that's never going to go away. And also is a serious relaunch because of course they've lost a number of of the pros.

[00:13:32]>> Well, they've asked >> not least my great friend Karen Hower, you know, so they are going to have a a whole new look. Okay, another subject.

[00:13:40]After the break, we're asking if supermarkets should cap food prices.

[00:13:43]We'll tell you how much essentials have gone up and I'm going to give my panel a little test on that. Give us a call with your thoughts. 0207862 is the number you need.

[00:13:57]Let me ask which of these is making a comeback. Is it pentaloons pulin or roofs? It is the first. It's pentaloons.

[00:14:11]>> Really?

[00:14:13]>> Obviously.

[00:14:13]>> I don't think I don't think I'd rock a pair of those.

[00:14:16]>> This is This is what the kids are wearing now apparently. So >> Oh, yeah. But they are a bit different to the picture. They're not >> Oh, they're not exactly flat. They are they're pleated around the calf area.

[00:14:31]>> Welcome back. We're live with Sylvia and Paula. Later, we're asking if all benefits cheats should be jailed. Every single one. A woman who claimed she was housebound was photographed taking part in a 10K.

[00:14:45]First, we need a price cap on essential food. Give us a call on this. Rachel Reeves is pressuring supermarkets to freeze the prices of basic items such as milk, eggs, bread, etc. cheese. In exchange, the government would lift regulations on packaging and healthy food. Ministers are worried about the impact of the Iran war. Oil prices have just hit their highest. Since the Strait of Hormuz was closed, $111 a barrel.

[00:15:11]Some items like chocolate and meat have actually just come down in price, but for the majority of items, especially raw goods, that's not the case. The Bank of England has said food costs could increase by as much as 7% by the end of the year. The Scottish National Party has said that they are going to have compulsory price caps on 50 food items.

[00:15:30]What about it, Paula?

[00:15:31]>> I think this is such a distressing story, Jeremy. Like can I just remind everybody that we are in 2026 not in the Victorian era and we are having to discuss the fact that millions of people are missing meals because they cannot afford to buy food. Jeremy, what the S&P are considering is right and just and what Rachel Reeves is suggesting as a voluntary option, she's not even saying it's suggesting it's compulsory, is right and just thanks to Trump's war in Iran. We know that thanks to that war, politics is hitting our dinner table directly. And so for me, this isn't a radical proposal. It is a necessary proposal. Um, we've got the British Retail Consortium hitting back and saying that this is outrageous that she should be Rachel Reese should be sessions and that it's going to take us back to the 1970s when Edward Heath had brought it in as a compulsory um decision. Um, BRC, how do you sleep at night? I mean, how do you sleep at night?

[00:16:39]>> Well, I don't know. What do you think, sir? You take a different view on this.

[00:16:42]>> Yeah, I do actually. Um, I take a different view in as much as that. um a price cap on essentials. Every nearly every supermarket has their own uh essential range. Um the the the littles and aldies and similar budgets supermarkets have special deals on. I think that we all we need to be able to teach people to cook again because I watch people um going through the supermarket and I watch what they put in their trolley. I'm really interested.

[00:17:16]That's a different thing, is it? We're talking here about whether we should force supermarkets to sell staples at a fixed price.

[00:17:22]>> But if you if if you do that, which is fair enough in one way, who's going to take the hit? Is it the farmers for the milk and the butter? Is it the people who produce? You know, there's a lot of small and medium businesses that produce goods that go into supermarkets. Are they going to be badly affected? And it's it worries me terribly. I'm not saying, you know, I agree there's a lot of people in food poverty. I am not saying that. But it distresses me to think that I can cook a meal for next to nothing on on, you know, on a primise stove if I have to. Why can't other people do that? And it's because they don't know how to cook because parents aren't teaching kids. And this goes back generations, not just the current But I mean if if we if we kept the staples low the thought there Paula is that they the supermarkets would turn the screw on the farmers >> which they've already done to the point where farmers have committed suicide and so on.

[00:18:21]>> So Rachel Re has attempted to address this and whilst I'm slightly uncomfortable about it I care more about starving children than I do about some of the regulation and the policies that are coming in. So what Rachel Reed is saying look this is a quid proquo. I will give you something if you give society something. She's saying, for example, there are regulations coming in in relation to packaging. Um, regulations coming in in relation to obesity and advertising, etc. She would hold off on those regulations coming into play so that the poor supermarkets could still make a profit out of our misery. And so my that is my concern.

[00:18:59]How many little Tims do we need to see on our streets in 2026? The obesity is really really important. And the point is that those shopping trolley of the people who I've watched actually with their phone calculator out adding it up.

[00:19:14]It's pizzas, sausage rolls, huge loaves of bread. They're not buying anything that's healthy. And if you go into most supermarkets, they do a cheap range of fruit and veg and you could use whatever.

[00:19:26]>> So you see it as the full in a way shopping habits need to change.

[00:19:30]Absolutely. Because but people are buying cheap stuff that's bad for them.

[00:19:33]Yes.

[00:19:34]>> Yeah. But that they don't want to buy more expensive stuff that's good for them because they can't afford it.

[00:19:38]>> No, that's fair enough. But you're not going to curb the price of the They're not talking about capping the price of um the more expensive items. They're talking about the basics. And that you can buy a cheap loaf of bread. You don't have to buy a sourdough loaf that's been handmade and what have you. And rice is really reasonable as well. So, I'm actually I'm trying to work out, you know, if you cook rice it again, you could freeze what you've got left over and use it again another day.

[00:20:06]>> Rice is bad for you as well. Rice is a refined carbohydrate.

[00:20:09]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:10]>> Yeah. I mean, I don't >> it it I think again it's all politics.

[00:20:14]They just want to get some tick boxes uh because they're suffering a bit. So, >> I don't know about that. We we discuss it as a as as a real thing that might happen. Let's look at some of the price differences between 2016 and now. So, we have our our shopping list here ready to unfurl.

[00:20:30]Oh, both sides. This should take I don't know what this is. I'm quite excited FOR THIS ACTUALLY. OH, all right. There we jolly well go. So, look. Here are the prices now. And I'm going to ask you a question, right, of what you think the price was 10 years ago. So, four pints of milk now, Sylvia, 165. What was it 10 years ago, do you think?

[00:20:51]>> 120.

[00:20:52]>> Okay, we will come back to that in a moment. 120 says Sylvia. Let's use the other end of this. I will put your initials there. S T H. Okay. Eggs. Six eggs 180. Now, what was it 10 years ago?

[00:21:08]Paula and Adrian.

[00:21:09]>> Oh, I'd say maybe about 75p.

[00:21:11]>> 75p. She says, "This is fascinating. I have no idea." That's from Paula. Okay.

[00:21:18]Bread 155 white loaf.

[00:21:21]>> Basic one. It's probably about 90p.

[00:21:25]>> 90p. This is so interesting. Who's going to win?

[00:21:30]>> It won't be me, Silia. I never win these competitions.

[00:21:33]>> This has got the makings of a TV format.

[00:21:38]>> Now, Penny pasta 1 kg. That's a lot of pasta. 135. Now, what is it? What was it, Paula? 10 years ago. Oh, I'm going to I'm I'm going to say 70 p.

[00:21:52]>> 70. Everything was 70 p. 70p. I'm getting the hang of this now.

[00:21:57]>> It's my go-to.

[00:21:58]>> Okay. Cheddar 400 g. Oh, fancy that.

[00:22:02]>> 275.

[00:22:03]>> I could get through one of those, you know, on a on a picnic. I would just go for the block.

[00:22:09]>> Okay, here we go, Sylvia. And the last one. Oh, no. Two more. This could go on forever.

[00:22:16]Rice 1 kg. What do you think of that, Paula?

[00:22:19]>> I can't say 70p again, can I? Let's go for 65.

[00:22:23]>> 65p.

[00:22:25]>> Yeah, 65.

[00:22:26]>> I think somebody's been shopping in Waitros here because >> Well, do you know what the thought had gone through my mind?

[00:22:32]>> Come on. Like, all right. Tin tomatoes.

[00:22:34]>> Okay. Right. Last one, Silia.

[00:22:36]>> Tin tomatoes. Probably about 23p. Yeah.

[00:22:40]>> Well, well, bear in mind it's times four. It's four tins.

[00:22:44]>> Four tins. candles. Okay. So, um about sort of uh >> don't say 70p. We've had that.

[00:22:52]>> 69p.

[00:22:53]>> 69.

[00:22:54]>> Yeah.

[00:22:55]>> I see how this game is working.

[00:22:58]>> 175 for a buying top.

[00:23:02]>> All right. We're going to do the answers. Isn't this brilliant?

[00:23:04]>> So, milk four pints was 165. Sylvia says 120. Actually, 96.

[00:23:14]Oh, that was >> seriously 96. So, eggs six 180. Now Paula says 75. Actually 80. So far you're winning.

[00:23:28]>> You're winning.

[00:23:30]>> Red. I don't want this to end.

[00:23:33]>> 155.

[00:23:35]>> Sylvia said 90p.

[00:23:37]>> It's expensive.

[00:23:38]>> It's actually one pound twop. So Paul is still in the lead with the most accurate answer of the day. 1 pound and two. Some mean putting a 2p on it. Penny pasta 1 kilo. 135. Now Paula said 70p.

[00:23:51]>> You're winning this girl.

[00:23:52]>> I mean you're winning.

[00:23:53]>> Correct answer. 80p.

[00:23:55]>> 80p.

[00:23:57]>> You got stuck on 75.

[00:24:00]>> So many of these items. Cheddar 400. Was 325. Sylvia says 275. You're quite some way out. It was two pound dead. Oh wow.

[00:24:10]Okay, >> Silia, >> I can hear my husband shouting.

[00:24:12]>> Two more to go at the moment.

[00:24:13]>> We don't want it to end, do we?

[00:24:15]>> Rice, 1 kilo, 125. Paula said 65. Actual answer 45p.

[00:24:23]>> Oh, you should have gone lower.

[00:24:27]>> I should have gone lower. I should have been missing that.

[00:24:30]>> And tin tomatoes 188 for four tins. Now, this is interesting. There's a lot writing on this. Sylvia said 69. Correct answer was one pound 20.

[00:24:40]>> Oh, that's just bad. I don't know. I win. I win. I win. It could have been the ones they specially they crushed them specially.

[00:24:46]>> I don't even pay that now.

[00:24:48]>> I don't. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:49]>> No. Well, that might be a premium brand.

[00:24:51]So, the winner of that >> is Have we agreed it's Paula because you were only 5p out >> right >> on the eggs.

[00:25:00]>> Thank you.

[00:25:01]>> Right. And for the rest of the program, we're going to be playing that with other items.

[00:25:08]Oh, it was dramatic. Sally and Devon, hi.

[00:25:11]>> Hello.

[00:25:12]>> Would you have got any of those answers?

[00:25:15]>> No. Um, I would point out that probably 10 years ago there was um milk protest uh because the price of milk was actually below the price of um production. So that might be an unfair um point because actually I went on milk protest.

[00:25:33]>> Oh, you're a dairy farmer.

[00:25:35]uh most of my family are.

[00:25:37]>> Yeah. Well, that this is the issue.

[00:25:39]>> Point out that um the price of milk that is um now that if anyone has a uh supermarket uh uh contract to produce milk, um the supermarkets know how they have to produce costings and they're allowed a very very small margin um now to produce milk. uh the price of milk goes down in the summer because um the price of production is lower in the summer. Yeah. And that the supermarkets do actually take a very tell this cuz Paula Hang on >> margin margin on um on um >> on things like bread, milk and cheese and >> and every time I speak to you get a bit louder. much an hour he gets paid for being a lawyer because I'm sure it's an awful lot more than any of my cousins do.

[00:26:34]>> Right. Can I put that to to Paula cuz what you're suggesting accidentally Paula will destroy British farming.

[00:26:40]>> Okay. So there's two things here.

[00:26:42]Firstly, I hope you don't begrudge me earning a wage, whatever that that that wage is. So to compare my earnings to somebody else's earning who does a completely different job, Sally, I don't think is fair. Now, I actually sympathize with you and what I was saying to Jeremy is this isn't about our farmers who keep us alive and who we need to look after and who frankly are suffering because of the Iran war because they're not getting the fertilizer that they need. Who needs to deal with this is the British Retail Consortium. And that's why I put the question to them. How are they sleeping at night? Because they squeeze your necks. Uh Sally, I totally accept that.

[00:27:22]And they are also watching whilst our children are going hungry.

[00:27:25]>> Sally, thanks so much. After the break, we'll take more calls on whether we should put a price cap on essential food items. We did it in the 70s. Should we do it again? What if shops end up raising prices of non-essentials?

[00:27:34]0207862.

[00:27:36]See you shortly.

[00:27:41]Before the break, we asked the Swedish term girkott means to wake up early for what? Swim, birds, coffee. And it is actually bird song.

[00:27:59]So Sylvia and Paula are with us this morning. Later we'll be asking if councils are right to reuse graves.

[00:28:03]We're running out of burial space. So what else can you do? Now your calls on whether we need a price cap on essential food. So we had a look over here at our shopping list at the prices now and the prices 10 years ago. Some of them were dramatic. I mean, the cheddar not so dramatic, but rice 125 now 45p 10 years ago, unbelievable. And Lauren, our brilliant editor, put those together through looking at other lots of supermarkets and averaging them using a calculator. Deed in Manchester. Hello.

[00:28:36]>> Hi.

[00:28:37]>> Hi, Deed.

[00:28:39]>> And your panel's very good, too.

[00:28:41]>> It's good today, isn't it? Yeah, >> it is. Yes.

[00:28:44]>> What would you like to say, Dee? I would like to say I disagree with putting a price cap on food. Oh, >> let's remember I've been in the job import export fruit and vegetables dealt with farmers for 50 years >> and there was a lot of food not 50 years ago. Say 30 years ago is wasn't as cheap as it is today. Vegetables especially.

[00:29:09]But the thing I'm saying is Rachel Reeves has decimated the economy. Pestilence she's put up that impacts everything.

[00:29:20]>> Well, that's partly the war though, isn't it? Deed and to be fair.

[00:29:24]>> No, the war is an excuse. She always use excuses. No, the war is an excuse.

[00:29:32]>> All right, D. Thank you, Wayne in Cheshire. Hi.

[00:29:35]>> Hello.

[00:29:36]>> Should they put price caps? Hello Wayne.

[00:29:38]Price caps yes or no?

[00:29:40]>> Um first of all we need to give the public the full information of what's going on. A research yesterday this morning many news outlets. Now the facts are the government have asked the retailers to put a price cap. The retailers have said we don't really want to do it but if you push it and use propaganda against us we will do it but we're going to put prices up on other goods to balance it out. Yeah. That's the problem.

[00:30:05]>> Yeah. Well, that there stands to reason because they they don't like being rolled over, do they? But is the government right to force them into it?

[00:30:14]>> Yes. Well, the government need to get stronger in so many things. They've made insane profits. They need to give the farmers more, take less profits, and they need to put bring certain goods down.

[00:30:26]>> Okay, so hang on. Just think about that.

[00:30:27]So if you if you cut the price of milk, you'd cut the supermarkets profits, but you also want the supermarkets to buy the milk for more than they're presently paying.

[00:30:39]>> So they're just going to go ballistic, aren't they?

[00:30:42]>> They will.

[00:30:43]>> So the problem is we've got we've got we've got out of control capitalism. Why do companies making loads of money, but what but this is what's wrong with the whole will full stop. The companies are taking so much profit, milking everything off, and nothing else is working properly.

[00:31:01]>> But it's a good point because supermarkets are monopolies, Sylvia, aren't they? And maybe they should be nationalized.

[00:31:07]>> I don't I don't think nationalizing supermarkets is the >> all of them. Just do it with all of them.

[00:31:12]>> No, no, I don't think that's the case.

[00:31:14]But I do agree with Wayne that you need to have um the farmers need to be looked after. Without farmers, we don't get our food. Everything will be imported. We don't want that. we need to produce more. So for me, it's the the the less profit. They'll still make a shedload of money and the shareholders will still be happy, but farmers and small medium producers need to be paid.

[00:31:39]>> Okay. Thanks, Wayne. John in London. Hi.

[00:31:41]>> Hi, Jeremy.

[00:31:43]>> All right, John.

[00:31:45]>> I want to know this about these starving children they keep talking about.

[00:31:49]>> Well, Paul mentioned it. Yeah, they get for free breakfast, free school dinner.

[00:31:56]Parents have got to find one meal a day for them and they can't do it. Why? It's impossible. I mean, supermarkets, as they are now, send out good deals anyway. They've got their own way of doing it. And also, when you get the they have the out of date food, half price. I mean, you could buy minced meat that's normally £4 for a big packet for two quid. Pop it in the freezer.

[00:32:23]>> Well, Paul, that's a good a good point.

[00:32:25]There's lots of ways of saving money already.

[00:32:27]>> I mean, there is. But John, should I shall I tell you what the breakfast meal consists of at school? It's either a slice of toast, and this is no disrespect to the schools. It's either a slice of toast or it's one bowl of cereal. That's what the breakfast looks like. And then that's it.

[00:32:41]>> And then they get just bear with bear with me, John. And then they they for lunch if they're on free school meals. I don't know if you've seen what a free school meal looks like but but you know it's the bare minimum you're not impressed.

[00:32:53]>> It's the bare minimum. John John we are we have the >> we have a second here John.

[00:32:59]>> Yeah I have had school meals during the war >> and I know what they were like. At least they >> we got to leave it there but thank you.

[00:33:07]We you've brilliantly made your point as always. Thank you so much. Later we'll be asking if councils are right to reuse graves a town in Harfordshire is going to be do reusing graves after the break.

[00:33:18]Should all benefits cheats be jailed.

[00:33:19]One woman who said she was housebound was later caught by the DWP running a 10K.

[00:33:27]So there she is. 0207862 is the number you need. It's ridiculous.

[00:33:32]We'll see you after the break. Should all benefits cheats be jailed? Tell us what you think. A woman has been caught scamming the system. Helen Green claimed she suffered from severe rheumatoid arthritis in every joint and a slip disc. She said she couldn't walk for more than five minutes, rarely left the house, and even struggled to feed herself. Green was able to claim £25,000 in personal independence payments, but was exposed when someone said, "Wait a minute, she's been running a 10K." She was also photographed at body combat and spin classes. Green has been jailed for seven months.

[00:34:08]>> Paula, this is the way to go, isn't it?

[00:34:10]This this can't happen. Of >> of course, it isn't the way to go, Jeremy. You know, look, let's just state a fact that I know that you're very uh aware audience know about, but we've got benefit fraud, which is I think the total benefits bill about 3.2%. What's the biggest part of the benefits bill?

[00:34:28]We know it's about state pensions. It's a triple lock. Dealing with the issue about whether we should jail benefit cheats or not. Of course, we shouldn't jail benefit cheats because we know that the average cost of um keeping somebody in prison is about £50,000 per year. So, what you're asking me to do is to burn the house down because I've managed to light a match. It's it's just an absolute waste of time. We keep jail for those dangerous individuals who physically harm us. When we talk about benefit cheats, um what we need to focus on is how they repay society. That's the first thing we want to address.

[00:35:02]Secondly, what we also know is in terms of recidivism, so those who repeat crimes, have a repeat crime criminal behavior, it happens to those who have the lowest sentences. So if we're going to send somebody to prison for 6 months, 7 months, 8 months, whatever it is, we know that they are the highest appear in the highest category of repeat offending. We don't want that as a society.

[00:35:22]>> They don't repeat if you don't jail them at all.

[00:35:24]>> Well, the figures are lower.

[00:35:26]>> Okay.

[00:35:26]>> Figures are lower.

[00:35:27]>> What do you think, Sylvia? You don't not impressed. Uh I what I don't understand is that if we're spending 10.6 of our GDP on benefit frauds, there's something in >> 6% of our GDP on benefit fraud.

[00:35:46]>> That's that's the stats that I got from the paper.

[00:35:48]>> Paul just gave us a completely different stat. So >> yeah, so it said 32 10 billion. Sorry, 10 billion billion 3.2% is what is made up of benefit >> and it's 10 billion. Yeah. Okay, got it.

[00:35:59]Sorry.

[00:35:59]>> But equally, that's 11-year high. And the point is that if you can get away with it, you'll keep doing it. And I can't name names, but I know I'm aware of people doing it all around. And it it infuriates me >> really. What you get people who start hobbling around and they're not then going anywhere.

[00:36:19]>> Not necessarily. But there's also there's a big thing. Most of the benefit fraud goes on on health issues and also on living together when you're not supposed to live together but you do and things like that.

[00:36:30]>> This is I just I just missed a couple while you're saying that. There's a few others to mention. Katherine Wland claimed more than £23,000 in benefits.

[00:36:40]She said she was housebound with anxiety. Look at her.

[00:36:44]>> She's ziplining in Mexico.

[00:36:46]>> Yeah.

[00:36:46]>> She was given a 28 prison sentence suspended for 18 months. One more.

[00:36:50]Sorry. Sarah Morris claimed more than £20,000.

[00:36:54]She has multiple sclerosis, but said it was so bad she was unable to stand. She was caught posting about her running group jail for 8 months.

[00:37:04]>> Yeah, but Jeremy, you know what? As I said earlier, your viewers are far too astute to fall for this. We're being asked to fall for what is in a cost of living crisis. Let's point the finger of blame at benefit cheats. We're all benefit cheats. we're all benefit sheets or we're all we're all lying about how we've got ADHD because everybody has a little bit of ADHD in them. You know, we are just fingerpointing instead of asking questions. And the questions we need to be asking is how do we support people who need to claim benefits because of of course people do. We know what to do with benefit cheats. You've just told us they're caught and they're sentenced. Do we jail them? No. It's a waste of money.

[00:37:44]>> It what is it? Can I do one more?

[00:37:46]>> Let's go back to America. Can >> Can I just do one more? Child abuser >> tried to avoid jail by faking a disability. This is a crazy one.

[00:37:55]>> John Siddle sexually assaulted three boys.

[00:37:58]>> When he was first interviewed by police, his brother claimed he could not walk or talk.

[00:38:04]>> It became clear later that was not true.

[00:38:06]No, >> he was going to. We suspect that you have pretended not to be able to walk and not to be able to talk to avoid having to go through a criminal trial. On the 14th of June 2024, you attended the Northern Social Club in Washington and was seen to be moving around unaided and speaking with friends and family.

[00:38:36]John, how do you account for these facts?

[00:38:44]>> Can't remember.

[00:38:46]>> I mean, it's ridiculous. The first still we showed, by the way, wasn't him. The So, yeah, there we are. Sorry, interrupt you.

[00:38:52]>> No, I was just saying that was in Leicester, which is only 10 milesi from where I live. So, I'm aware of that story. I think we should go back to the the a modern version of chain gangs. So if you break the rule, if you break the law and you defraud 25,000, there are people out there, my brother works god knows how many hours, and if he makes that a year, he has to do something like 48 hours a week. You know, it's a nonsense they should have. Why benefit fraudster, um, you know, jail fraud, whatever it is, shoplifter or whatever we're going to rename.

[00:39:27]>> We're on benefit fraudster, but you think they should be chained up and and made to >> Exactly. chained up.

[00:39:32]>> Well, that's what a chain gang is. Yeah.

[00:39:33]Well, they don't chain them anymore in the States, but it's a modern version of it. They're wearing prisoner stripe outfits. It's got prisoner.

[00:39:40]>> Can we compromise on that?

[00:39:42]>> No, we do not compromise on that. I mean, um, what I'm saying is, and I'm not defending people who have been found guilty of this. Of course, I'm not. You know, our system is built on the fact that there are going to be liars and cheats. My issue is how do you deal with the lies and cheats? And in this instance where we're talking about somebody who's been sent to jail for 8 months, that that is more. It's going to cost us more to house that woman than it would have been if we had sent her out to work. She should be doing a community penalty. She could be under community house arrest. There are things that we can do. They could remortgage and pay the 25,000 back >> bare minimum. Peter in Wolverampton, hello.

[00:40:24]>> Hi Jeremy.

[00:40:25]>> What about that? You you start by saying, "Can you pay us the money back?"

[00:40:28]And if the answer is no, then you escalate it.

[00:40:32]>> Well, I think in cases of obvious fraud, it's no different from any other form of criminality in any field. My point is that a lot of people who are legitimate can be accused of cheating because the benefits criteria are deranged.

[00:40:46]>> Yeah. You've we've talked before. You have been on benefits for a long time for bipolar.

[00:40:52]>> Yeah. 25 years, >> right? And it says it it says in my assessment criteria cannot socialize and that's why I get the money. But the only way my doctor says I can recover from depression is to socialize. So I'm I'm already open to the >> do I mean out of interest if they knew you rang this program would they start to look at you?

[00:41:10]>> Oh absolutely. Yeah.

[00:41:11]>> Would they what? Because this would be count as socializing.

[00:41:14]>> Well it well socializing or communicating which I've said I can't do successfully on a bad day. So I reckon about 60% of of people could be accused of fraud because of the derangement of the crime.

[00:41:25]>> This is really interesting. So So you they they're under the impression that you're non-verbal, are they?

[00:41:30]>> Well, you have to say things like you cannot communicate under any circumstances. Yeah. To get the money.

[00:41:35]Yeah.

[00:41:36]>> Well, Peter, mate, I mean, that's fraud.

[00:41:40]You can communicate because you've rung us at least 20 times in the last year.

[00:41:44]>> Yeah, but it's not my fault that it's fraud, is it? The criteria are absurd.

[00:41:47]Of course, I can communicate occasionally for 10 minutes.

[00:41:51]>> Yeah, but don't you feel a bit kind of bad about it? You're taking money from other people who want to be on benefits.

[00:41:57]>> No, the criteria are completely unrealistic. If it said, "Are you debilitated by depression to such a great degree that you can't work?" I'd say, "Yes, but that's not what the criteria are like. They're absurd."

[00:42:07]>> So, yeah. So, you So, you're Are you down as non-verbal or unable to speak to strangers?

[00:42:12]>> Yes.

[00:42:14]>> I've heard everything now.

[00:42:16]>> Yeah.

[00:42:16]>> Well, listen. All right, I'll let you wrangle with that in your own conscience. That he's called us literally 20 times. I didn't realize if someone is going to >> It's my first time on this show and I'm lost for words already.

[00:42:28]>> Yeah, that's Don't worry. It's like this. Sorry.

[00:42:30]>> It's like this every day. Yeah, >> it's it's it's beyond belief that that we have a system that does that.

[00:42:39]>> But his point is he has to say he can't speak at all because the >> I I >> I mean, look, Peter does raise a good point. uh we a part of that part of that 3.2% 2% that I was referencing is made up of uh people who claim who claim innocently who feel that they are complying with the rules um but it's later discovered that they filled out the form incorrectly etc etc. There's got to be some leniency built into a system. No system is perfect.

[00:43:08]>> We're losing 9.9 billion in lost revenue. I mean that's an enormous amount of money.

[00:43:14]>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean Peter's a classic example cuz he has entrenched depression if you like or or bipolar. I used to call it manic depression and and I can see that could be disabling >> but for some reason what he's got doesn't fit into their categorization.

[00:43:29]So he has to go for the old um I'm nonverbal and then at some point his case officers going to be tuned into this show and say wait was that you?

[00:43:38]>> You might be called to give evidence Jeremy. Well, I mean, I'd have to say he was very verbal for several years. Neil in South Yorkshire. Hi.

[00:43:46]>> Good morning, Jimmy.

[00:43:48]>> I've heard it all now. How you doing?

[00:43:51]>> I'm doing fine. How are you?

[00:43:53]>> Yeah, fine, thank you. So, what do you think about jailing all benefits cheats?

[00:43:58]>> Um, I mean, put the handle on benefits cheats. Let's face it, these benefits cheats are not cheats. They are actually acting illegally because it's fraud.

[00:44:11]>> Yes, >> it's their fraud representation.

[00:44:15]>> Yeah, for sure. But how would you pun because Paula's point is that as always a sage one which is that if you put them all in jail, they'll just, you know, like sending them to France and telling them not to speak French, they'll come out as even worse offenders.

[00:44:31]>> Yeah, you about the system. Okay. Cut their benefits. put their benefits if it's found they're found guilty not necessarily jail but they should have their benefits cut because they are actually doing >> Could you say here's a creative one you say if you're caught doing benefits frauds you lose your state pension >> how about that >> no no state pension because why does everyone on these on your show actually pick on state pension I'm a pension myself I'm still working I'm still paying my taxes You're not committing fraud, are you? You're not, Neil. You're not committing fraud. But I pay my taxes on my business. I don't deal in cash at all. I pay all my taxes. Yet that these people can get away with fraud, theft.

[00:45:19]They're thieves. They're taking money.

[00:45:22]>> Exactly.

[00:45:24]>> Yeah. But the reason I mentioned state pension is that's the only place you can hit them, Neil, is by saying when you get to 67, there's going to be nothing for you.

[00:45:32]>> Yeah. You're going to have 25. paid it to you early.

[00:45:35]>> Yeah.

[00:45:37]>> Okay, Neil, thank you. See you in Bedfordshire. What do you think of that?

[00:45:41]>> Well, I think the whole system is absolutely chaotic. I mean, if Beavenon came back now and saw our benefit system, he would be absolutely horrified. It was for the needy and these people should be sent to prison because it would be an example to other people. You know, there's no incentive anymore to go to work. If you don't want to work, they pay their rent. They pay everything. And for people who are hardworking, it's really, really upsetting for people who do a hard day's work and watch these people in every street in all over the country claiming numerous benefits.

[00:46:22]>> It does all the time. Fall.

[00:46:23]>> I mean, it does. But but Sue and Sue, I really do understand your frustration and your pain, but when you said they need to be sent to prison so that they shown an example, they can be seen as an example.

[00:46:35]>> They break a law. Paula, you do not know what you're talking about. You're talking about a lot of rubbish. I've seen >> Well, let's just let's just talk about sending people to prison. Sue, you say that if you send somebody to prison, it's going to be setting an example.

[00:46:50]>> How much are our prisons overflowing at the moment? That's nothing to do with two roads don't make it. Therefore, it doesn't mean that sending someone to prison sets an example. That's my point.

[00:47:01]And so, we have to start thinking more logically, don't we, about how to treat people who do not, >> right? So, how would you how would you treat them?

[00:47:10]>> So, I would pay pay their rent, pay everything.

[00:47:13]>> Hang on, Sue. Let let Paula answer. It's a good question.

[00:47:15]>> So, I would ensure that they had a community penalty. they could be in uh they could have a tag on them so that they could only go out to work and come back. We know that the benefits agency are going to be given the right to uh speak to banks directly so that they don't have to deal with the uh fraudster anymore so that if they wanted to reclaim any money they could go straight to the bank and do that. So any earnings that the person had any money that they put into the account they could get it automatically. So these are direct things that can happen now.

[00:47:44]>> Go Paula go on Sue >> Paula you're in cloud cuckoo lands.

[00:47:48]These people do not work. Most of them do not work. They're just laughing at all of us who are doing a full day's work for a honest day's pay.

[00:47:58]>> And what what what about community service, Sue? Would you like to see somebody who'd committed an act of fraud against the state working for the state?

[00:48:07]>> If they'd commit I'd like to see all people work for the state. And these people, they have no intention of working. and the whole system is chaotic.

[00:48:18]>> Okay, Sue, thank you very much. Later, it's the papers and everything else.

[00:48:20]Find out why there are calls to stop using the term shoplifting cuz it trivializes it. But what would you use instead? After the break, we're asking if it's okay to reuse graves. Would you mind if your loved ones grave was opened up and someone else buried on top of them? 0207. I think I can guess the answer to that. 0207862.

[00:48:40]See you shortly.

[00:48:43]Before the debate, we asked in bowling, what term means three consecutive strikes? Is it turkey, eagle, or birdie?

[00:48:50]It is a turkey.

[00:48:59]Welcome back, Sylvia and Paula. With us later, it's the papers and everything else, and we'll show you Robert Genrich being heckled in the commons. Now, we want your calls on this. Our council's right to reuse graves. Give us your thoughts. 0207862.

[00:49:14]The remains of hundreds of people are going to be disturbed in a Harfordshire town. It's Bishop Stford, which is sort of quite a cute town, but they're running out of burial space. So, the council is being forced to reuse plots.

[00:49:27]For now, the grave of anyone who died after 1949 won't be disturbed. But shortages of space are becoming a growing issue. And the Tel Council says the reuse scheme means current residents will still be able to bury their loved ones nearby and easily visit. But essentially they're going to I think dig up where let's say a child who died by fire in the 1900s is buried and they dig up the top of the grave and they drop someone in on top.

[00:49:59]>> It's a bit more sensitive than that, Jeremy. So they actually lower they actually although I do fear that Sue is going to hate me even more once I've finished on this topic.

[00:50:08]>> Sue's gone.

[00:50:09]>> Um so what they do actually is they they do reopen the grave of course. Um it's normally a hundred years and they lower the grave and then they lay more um soil on top digging up. But you're still digging up the original >> digging up the original bone >> to drop it lower.

[00:50:27]>> Yeah.

[00:50:27]>> And what a harrowing job. I mean, I know everybody there's lots of people who do lots of horrible things, but it's not the greatest.

[00:50:34]>> Well, but surely by that stage, the coffin has gone and you are just with a a skeleton.

[00:50:39]>> Yeah, that's right. In in Italy, for instance, you're put in the ground, particularly in the south, you're put in the ground for a year to 18 months, and then you are exumed and put into a family tomb or if you can't afford it, you're chucked into a a general or one for all grave. And um and apparently I can remember somebody saying, "Oh, one of our relatives in Italy, you know, his skeleton was all in one piece." I'm thinking, "I'm going to pass out here."

[00:51:06]>> But that's their way of reusing a grave >> sensibly. I don't think people should be forced to have to use them. I think there should be more uh perhaps councilled um natural habitat where you plant a tree and and the the ashes or the you know we need more crerematoriums and people are going to say but that raises more CO2 emissions but if you plant a tree and have the ashes buried underneath the tree the tree is actually dead.

[00:51:33]>> What's wrong with wanting a gravestone?

[00:51:34]It's the last wish.

[00:51:35]>> No, that's fine. But don't force people to have a grave that's already been used if you feel bad about it. I I saw a gravestone in Southwell, Nottinghamshire, and the inscription was WTF1610.

[00:51:47]>> Absolutely one of the best gravestones I've ever seen.

[00:51:50]>> And and do you not find that thing of going around a cemetery looking? I find it fascinating.

[00:51:53]>> So now we're going to have this. Let's say it's I know why I think it's an infant, but let's say it's an infant who's buried 200 years ago. And the infant has a gravestone. It's been undisturbed for 200 years. And now they're going to stick a body on top of this child >> and another gravestone which looks like it was bought at Tesco.

[00:52:10]>> Yeah. But the family the family the the biggest issue here is that the family is actually that they're supposed to maintain the graves. Well, of course, as the generations go by, 12 10 generations or even four generations, maybe two don't give a damn where you don't want the newer gravestones are don't look as as lovely as older ones. That's all I'm saying.

[00:52:33]>> I mean, it's something that's going to it they age, don't they? That's what happens to them. But I think, you know, I've got to agree with Sylvia here. We have to remind ourselves that the earth is not a storage cupboard. Like it's limited space and we're going to have to have this conversation and it's a difficult conversation, but we're going to have to have it.

[00:52:49]>> Well, I remember Labour under the Blair government suddenly announced that people would have to be buried vertically >> and there was a huge like what and they had to withdraw the policy within hours.

[00:53:00]Bill in Somerset, you how do you feel about this?

[00:53:03]>> I I think Hi, Jeremy. Okay.

[00:53:05]>> All right. Thanks, Phil. Thanks.

[00:53:07]>> Okay. I think it's absolutely appalling.

[00:53:11]Um when when you buy a plot and and my family live live in a a local cemetery, you actually buy the plot and it belongs to you. It doesn't belong to the council. um you you get a plot uh plot number and and and if um if councils um if if that's this is all they've got to um uh to uh to raise money by then then then perhaps counselors are are in uh in the wrong place. They shouldn't >> it's not so much raising money. It's a genuine thing of people still want to get buried with the gravestone. And where do you put them now? You could just have new cemeteries. You could have fields or allow people to be buried in their own gardens. That's another possibility.

[00:53:52]>> In in all fairness, people can be buried in their garden as long as there's not a water course near it. And and um and but what you've got to do is you've got to notify um a an incoming incoming purchaser that that you've got a bur a body buried in your garden.

[00:54:09]>> That that's been an issue. I know there was one house purchase which fell through a while back because someone suddenly said, "Oh, by the way, my wife's in the garden." You know, um so it's a good point. It's not going to help you sell the house. I think >> no but the thing is you see what what is you you know we were um we were brought up as a not devout Christians but we were brought up in a Christian society and um and that piece of ground is is um is uh is was uh was was best blessed or the piece of ground that I got that that my wife and I bought um it it was sacred sacred to um to to uh um uh to ourselves.

[00:54:50]>> Yes, of course, Phil. Thank you so much for calling. It's that's the thing when Phil said my wife and I am thinking, are we getting a voice from beyond there?

[00:54:59]Um, bless you, Phil. Thank you. Maybe made us think. I mean, we did it. It's it's a reminder that people do this can be very special to people. I we did a an item the other day about um you know, some sort of parish party or bring them by with drinks by whatever. It's a summer's day >> and the guests spilled across the cemetery area >> and it caused >> was told never to stand on a grave and but I mean actually people maybe under 30 you don't think it's a problem >> and a lot of a lot of old graveyards with these beautiful stones that you're talking about the the graves have collapsed or whatever and they or the stones have fallen and they put them all on the edge >> put them all on the edge of the churchyard >> now is that the Harfordshire cemetery or is it just a cemetery somewhere.

[00:55:46]>> What are they going to do? Take the stones away that are in >> this is what worries me.

[00:55:50]>> Yeah, people.

[00:55:51]>> But this one is in bad state of repair though. Haven't you said that? David is in North Yorkshire. Is it okay to bury people who died recently on top of infants who died in the 1850s?

[00:56:03]>> Good morning, Jeremy. No, I don't think so. I mean, here uh in in Sa in in North Yorkshire, we've got a beautiful and large churchyard. Special place. Many families visit the graves of loved ones, but in nine or 10 years, we might be full. Now, some of our graves are over a hundred years old, and very few of them are visited. And so, I think if we're going to keep the churchyard continuing to serve the needs of the community so that people are still coming in, they're still enjoying it, it's still a beautiful, quiet place, then we need to consider reuse. that yes, we have to um be aware of the need for dignity and respect and we have to look at special graves. I'm thinking particularly of um war graves.

[00:56:50]>> No, no, they're being protected >> and and um there's a war memorial here, but I mean we have some graves. I was looking at one this morning where in addition to recording the name of the husband and wife who were buried there, they also took the opportunity to record the name of their son who fell in action in in August 1918.

[00:57:10]>> Yeah, but leave aside war graves because they there'll be a riot if they touch them. You seem to be suggesting you can consider reusing graves, David. I I think it's worth considering if you're going to be continuing to serve the needs of the community. If if a grave is is still visited, >> then by all means and and you know, you you need you need to approach this with a sense of how important the church is for the people who still use it.

[00:57:41]>> Okay. Thank you so much. I I just we're talking about the if you're not involved and you're looking around a churchyard, you've got the old stones and the newer stones >> and now you've got this jumble of new stones and old stones on the same plot just might look really untidy.

[00:57:55]>> You might have to do a new stone >> with the first people at the top and then the the new people at the bottom and then the the people be going, I want to be at the top. I mean, it's just >> No, it it maybe we should all be buried at sea or something.

[00:58:08]>> No, dad wanted to be launched off an aircraft.

[00:58:11]>> Well, there's a lot to be said for that.

[00:58:13]attached to his ankles.

[00:58:15]>> Did he What happened in the end? Did he >> I had to apologize at the eulogy and say, "Sorry, Dad. I couldn't do that."

[00:58:20]Decorated his coffin with cartoons, so that was all right.

[00:58:23]>> But he he went for a classic barrel oil.

[00:58:24]Did he? Or >> no. Cremation.

[00:58:26]>> Cremation.

[00:58:27]>> Linda in Leicester. Hi.

[00:58:29]>> Hi.

[00:58:30]>> Hi.

[00:58:33]>> My grandfather died in 1953.

[00:58:36]Um, grandma died in 1973.

[00:58:39]So um and we had a plot and a headstone.

[00:58:44]And then when my mother died in 2003, we uh had to get permission to bury her ashes in the grave.

[00:58:51]>> Okay.

[00:58:52]>> So then I contacted Leicester Council and we got the permission and you send the certificate off and it gets um readded to the certificate. When I got the certificate back, there was actually three people in the grave. M >> so um I thought well this is a bit strange anyway rang the council and what they said was that the grave was over a 100red years old and if anybody wanted to have a have a plot and um couldn't afford it what they did was offered a a secondhand plot basically uh because you know after 100 years there was nobody they couldn't contact any >> so they put other people in your plot No. So there was this person at the bottom of the plot.

[00:59:40]>> So when granddad was buried in 1953, he was just buried on top of this person, but grandma didn't he just bought it as a secondhand plot.

[00:59:49]>> I see. Oh, Linda, thank you very much.

[00:59:51]That's that. So in a funny sort of way, it's happening already. Thank you for your calls on that subject. After the break, it's the papers and everything else. We'll discuss whether all British homes should be fitted with air conditioning as it gets warmer. We'll see you very shortly.

[01:00:04]Before the break, we asked the glabella is the name for what part of the face? Is it the tip of the nose, the skin between the eyebrows, or the chin dimple? It is actually the skin between the eyebrows.

[01:00:26]>> You're I know you're enjoying our questions today, S. I can tell this is I some people don't have >> Botox. It's where Botox goes, isn't it?

[01:00:33]>> Is it? I don't know.

[01:00:34]>> I don't know. I've never had it. So, >> but it's when people don't have any skin. They have just a monor brow.

[01:00:40]>> Watch out.

[01:00:41]>> All I'm saying. So, yesterday I was I'm just dropping a name here. I was in the back garden of Buckingham Palace >> for um a do which is they put on sandwiches and tea for people who um support a charity called Not Forgotten.

[01:00:59]very important charity because they look after our veterans and it's also a way of veterans getting together. So you find these people who've been through all kinds of things, some of them injured, um some in difficulty, a lot just actually, you know, there to enjoy the day and um enjoy being part of this charity. So my friend Charlotte Hawkins was here. Have a look at this. This is >> this is the best. Okay, >> one taking.

[01:01:24]>> Oh, look at This is I just thought I was for some reason part of the photographing party here because Charlotte in the middle who presents on another channel and beef eaters. That's a good lineup, isn't it?

[01:01:37]>> With Bucky and Palace in the background.

[01:01:39]Thank you not forgotten for lining all that up. And then so I didn't just took a little film of of the basically dear old princess an can't falter. She's just amazing. She turned up. I mean, turned up. She obviously wasn't by chance.

[01:01:56]I'm sure there's a better phrase. And then they had the the band, the marching band playing her out as she left. Have a look.

[01:02:12]So, it's one of these these funny days where it was a little bit overcast and even a bit drizzly, but I thought to myself, this is the best weather for it.

[01:02:20]It's not too hot. It's not wet and windy. There's Buckingham Palace. And I just reflected on the whole thing. It's >> been a really great great afternoon here.

[01:02:30]Um supporting the notforgotten charity, the garden of Bucka Palace.

[01:02:41]>> What about that?

[01:02:43]>> What were you actually there for?

[01:02:45]>> How long?

[01:02:45]>> Yeah, >> I went after my show on radio 2. So I arrived about 2:30. Um I think people arrive from 2. So not is that 2 till 5?

[01:02:53]>> 2.

[01:02:53]>> But you got straight in. You didn't have to queue like at a garden party where you have to queue for miles and take take for Oh, yeah. Take flat shoes whilst you're waiting to go in.

[01:03:02]>> Oh, really?

[01:03:03]>> Did you walk down the steps as you went into the go through the >> I didn't go down? No.

[01:03:08]>> Quite often people fall down those >> I went around the side. It's the only thing I've been I've ever been to which is at that location. I've been three or four years running. It's a lovely crowd.

[01:03:18]Anne Whitikin was there and I spent my whole time because I never see Anne outside the studio. So I thought I'm going to catch up, introduce her to my wife. Couldn't find her and I spent the whole day saying where's Anne Whitik?

[01:03:31]Okay, time for the papers and everything else.

[01:03:47]So, we go to the mail for the first story. And this is, you can see on the right there, reform throws the kitchen sink and a plumber at Burnham's hopes of number 10. Plumbers are in vogue now cuz a plumber won the bi-election for the Greens in Gorton and Denton. And it'll be a plumber who stands for reform in Makerfield.

[01:04:05]>> Yeah.

[01:04:06]>> Yeah. What do you think of that? Well, you know, George Orwell talks about the feticization of the working class and here we have a prime example of5 million pound Farrage doing exactly that because of course he has no intention of living the plumber's life. But what he's quite happy to do is to use the plumber of course to gain her a foot up in politics.

[01:04:28]>> What do you think Sylvia?

[01:04:29]>> Yeah. Well, I'm I'm a great believer in if you've got somebody standing and I'm not a supporter of reform. I'll make that very clear. Why not have somebody who's local, who at least understands the people rather than bringing somebody in who's probably hardly ever set foot in the place. I just um think I agree with Paula that clarinking Farage is not going to be a man of the people there, but maybe this plumber could be.

[01:04:57]>> They're going to both be against reform.

[01:04:59]I'm going to have to step in and try and defend them. That's going to be fun. Um, the local plumber, Robert Kenan, who we mentioned, has launched his campaign with a video for a battle that's been labeled David versus Goliath. I was born in Makerfield. If I was elected, I'd be the first person born in the constituency to become the MP. I don't think any MP that's ever studied in Makerfield was actually born in the area. I'm a plumber, gas engineer. I've done that for a long time. I did me apprenticeship when I was 18. I love being a plumber. I do enjoy it. It's hard, but I do enjoy it cuz I do take pride in my work. I don't know. It gets me a bit emotional sometimes thinking that there's a chance that I could be representing people in parliament because it's a massive honor and people be thinking a minute he serviced my boiler last week. I can't work out the conseries I don't think they put their candidate forward yet. I if if you were the conservatives wouldn't you try to pull out of it so that all your votes go to reform?

[01:05:55]Wouldn't you get your candidate to throw a siki?

[01:05:58]Yes, but Kemmy can't do that.

[01:06:00]>> No, because she's already attacked that guy and said he's mysteriously his social media has been deleted or something. So, it started.

[01:06:08]>> Yeah, it's already started. I mean, look, she can't do that. Um, what Kemy's major issue is one one of relevance. Um, and so if she was to pull out of this or if she if the conservatives were to pull out of this, they are already going to be seen as throwing in the towel >> and and they can't afford to. They had to contest it, which will split the vote on the right. Yeah. So, the reform Treasury spokesperson, Robert Genrich, was in the Commons speaking during debate on the King speech. You know what I'm going to MP Max Wilkinson poked a bit of fun at him with quite a welltimed heckle. Have a look.

[01:06:42]>> They said they would do things differently. They would be better. They would end the chaos. They would put country before party. And where are we?

[01:06:51]Where are we less than 2 years later?

[01:06:54]>> You're in a different party.

[01:06:55]>> We're here.

[01:06:58]We >> We're here.

[01:07:02]>> Where are we? We're here.

[01:07:03]>> You used to be there.

[01:07:04]>> We're here.

[01:07:07]>> You used to be there.

[01:07:08]>> He walked straight into that one.

[01:07:10]>> There's been some good banter in the comments. You remember that guy who stood before behind the reform MPs and he was a Birmingham MP and he said, "Rubbish is piling up in front of me."

[01:07:19]And he and they were and they were going ask you. So there are other candidates in the Makerfield bi-election. There is Alan Howland, Lord Hope of the Official Monster Raving Looney Party. Always love it when people have to read that in a really serious way. And of Restore Britain, Rebecca Shepherd, and we'll gradually see them as they come together, these other candidates. Paula has a story in the Guardian, and this is about Mandlesson saying we haven't seen all the documents.

[01:07:44]>> Yes. Yes. This is this is an interesting um article in the Guardian. It reminds us of of course why Mandles was sacked.

[01:07:52]Uh we know it's because information we are told became available about his closer links to the uh convicted pedophile Jeffrey E Jeffrey Epstein. Um and uh what we're told in this article is essentially that Starmmer had said to us, hadn't he? I'm going to release all the documents that were involved that were created in relation to uh Mandlesson's employment. Now what's happened is is that we have seen one tranch of the documents. We were due to receive a second trance of the documents but it's this second tranch that has been suspended. Suspended until when you ask me Jeremy. Well we now have this bi-election coming up in Makerfield.

[01:08:36]It's set for we believe the 18th of June. And when are the documents due to be released? After the 18th of June. But the the government is saying Sylvia that oh we can't release everything because it would it would stop people being frank at future vetting. So the things that they might release would be bank accounts and you know who he had a personal very personal relationship with years ago. I don't know what you know how much do we need to know here? We know he was a friend of Epstein anyway.

[01:09:04]I I just find it beggars belief that in this day and age we can't just get things sorted and the fact that this has ended up as it is is bad enough and now they're withholding documents. I think they have to put it all out because otherwise we're not going to know the full story. The man they he should never have been in the in the position in the first place how they let that happen.

[01:09:27]Surely they have advisers and PR that would say this is a bad idea. We all knew the papers didn't kick off when he was appointed and and the thought was if you want to infiltrate the mafia, you've got to look Italian and the best person to send over to Washington is Mandles >> because they've all been friends with Epstein over there as well.

[01:09:46]>> Yeah. But I I I just find that holding it back is not the right thing to do.

[01:09:52]And to time it just shows you what a bunch of um you know unacceptable people are.

[01:10:00]>> Unacceptable people.

[01:10:01]>> Unacceptable people they are light.

[01:10:04]>> Well you know it's I've got to be careful but it is it it is just ridiculous. Fancy timing it. It's like the Eurovvision song contest when one country votes for the other as a political thing. They're going to release this on you know at the maker field. Hang on. Just think about this for a second. The star is desperate, let's assume, >> for Labour to lose that bi-election.

[01:10:28]>> Well, >> how interesting. That's an interesting approach.

[01:10:31]>> Yeah. So, let's think about how the poor stuff. If you're sitting there thinking, how do I save my job? It's like Spurs trying not to get relegated. It's it's like the best way to save his job is to get Burnham to lose the seat. And therefore, the best thing to do is to release the Mandlesson stuff before the bi-election. The trouble is that reflects badly on star and might increase Labour's vote. Exactly. I don't know how.

[01:10:55]>> It's it's it's and this is the problem when >> I won't say who or couldn't possibly say who, but this is the problem ultimately when lies are told >> and when coverups occur, isn't it?

[01:11:08]>> Yeah.

[01:11:09]>> All this confusion, you know, we've got a cyclone of confusion here. Why?

[01:11:14]Because there just isn't transparency.

[01:11:17]and and who is fearful of that transparency. And I would suggest if you followed if you took the time, Jeremy, to follow the path of who is fearful of transparency, you may well come up with an answer.

[01:11:30]>> Okay. But you know, to me, when Mandles was appointed, we already knew because the FT had reported this that he had stayed in Epstein's house while Epstein was in jail. You don't get any closer to a person than that. So all the rest is just noise, isn't it? You know, we we we knew they all knew. Everyone knew. I totally agree. And as I said to you before many many times, I've said to you before, this to me is an absolute nonsense. It's an absolute waste of time because as far as I'm concerned, >> Sakir Stalmer, he knew who Peter Madison was. There were people surrounding him who knew who Peter Madison was, and he chose Peter Madison over Survivors. End of conversation.

[01:12:09]>> And the the papers didn't kick off cuz we all sort of understood the Italian point. Yeah, >> but now suddenly it's the whole thing's on fire and that's because people's perceptions change and there was a moment where everyone suddenly thought wait anyone who's had anything to do with Epstein must not be in public life that's and that just became the new thinking and that's partly because of the release of Virginia Dre's book and stuff like that.

[01:12:33]>> Yeah. And the further chances of the epste >> indeed. Indeed. Yeah. Okay. Sylvia in the Guardian UK must get used to being a hot country. I suppose I should say, well, that sounds like fun. I mean, but it's not fun.

[01:12:45]>> Well, it isn't fun, but let's just, you know, I I've been I've been looking at this today and it says that air conditioning should be installed, for instance, in all care homes. Well, of course it should, but seeing as care homes have broken, you know, your your government run uh or the ones where you can get government grants to put your elderly into homes are falling apart and so forth. That's a ridiculous idea. We look at I'm half Italian. We have my I don't know anybody in our family in Naples and it's 40 plus for many months of the of of the summer, you know, the summer months. Um they you know, oh mia, it's too hot. It's too hot. Yeah, it's too hot. But they don't have air conditioning units and and so forth.

[01:13:31]They're talking about us all having heat pumps. We just looked into a heat pump.

[01:13:35]Even with a government grant, it's excruciatingly expensive and a huge upheaval, floors dug up and what have you. I just don't think that this story is is is right. You know, they're going to add more problems to business owners because they want businesses to stop at a certain time. I think we just have to get used to this and we >> It's going to be hot. We wear less clothes. I mean, just wear wear >> Yeah, that's right. I mean obviously if you're working if you're working in nursing >> you looking in my direction there Jeremy >> but the point is Jeremy that that if it's too hot and we have to adapt it for the next in they're saying in 25 years it's going to be 40 plus then we are going to have to adapt our work style.

[01:14:20]So you may work early in the morning and later in the afternoon and nurseries are going to have to accommodate parents and so forth. We have to adapt more than tell everybody they've got to have air conditioning.

[01:14:30]>> Also, once you say everyone's got to have air conditioning, we've given up on climate change because that that will fuel more of the change. Cuz look at America, 15% of the world's emissions for 5% of the world's population because every single person's got an air conditioning unit. If everyone in China gets a fridge, we're done for.

[01:14:49]>> We don't, you know, we were talking earlier about having um you know, sort of hay fever and stuff like that. Well, for most Brits, spending a couple of nights in a room with air conditioning, we're all walking around like we like we've got a bad cold because we can't cope with it. But we're going to have to find We're going to have to use fan, you know, manual fans or something like the Japanese did. Um, in back in the 19th century.

[01:15:12]>> Yeah. Or one of those little ones that menopausal ladies have.

[01:15:15]>> I don't know about that.

[01:15:16]>> In the independent Katy Price, missing husband latest. This is not a publicity.

[01:15:21]So, the I've been following this story.

[01:15:23]I got to admit it. I've I've be kind of interested and this guy appears the son has done a a whole investigation with their reporter Clemmy about him scamming money off her apparently he's now died or he basically was due to appear on Good Morning Britain didn't show up so people assumed he was dead and it's the only explanation you know so I shouldn't laugh and this is Katy Price talking >> everyone um so I'm here to do an update about Lee. This is a really difficult time for me at the moment. Um, it's been 5 days now since I've heard anything from Lee. I want to make it clear again, everyone. This is not a publicity stunt. This is real. And anyone who thinks that I'm part of this is disgusting.

[01:16:21]I I hadn't suspected her at all. I think she's probably a victim of something as well here. But we I the chances of this guy actually being dead are less than 1% I would think at this stage. We'll find him at some point.

[01:16:32]>> I I do hope so. It's interesting that she's saying that, you know, whoever thinks that this is a publicity stunt or I'm part of a publicity stunt. Uh >> his mother thinks that she's using this as a publicity stunt. Uh interestingly.

[01:16:45]Um, and but on you know on on a more but the mothers are advertising her clairvoyant business on Facebook at the same time.

[01:16:54]>> I just I just think Katie doesn't look well. She does.

[01:16:56]>> She looks terrible. I've met her a few times and she looks so poorly. And >> yeah, I mean I'm always careful about commenting on uh women's physical appearance particularly those who are paid in the in the glamour industry etc etc. My my my biggest concern is are we dealing with somebody who is an individual who has gone missing? Uh and if so, are the newspapers reporting that with the respect that it should have?

[01:17:25]And I think the the issue is is that this gentleman does seem to have um a dubious history. Um and that seems to be taken over the fact that there are actually family members who are worried about his. All right, more after the break, including Arsenal's first Premier League win after 22 years and why the Department of Education has called on Tawi star J Collins to sort things out and walk into the department. Amazing film they put out. See you very soon.

[01:17:53]Before the break, we asked which TV star misread a job ad and accidentally became a weather presenter, Gabby Logan, Julia Bradbury, or Andrea Mlan? It's Andrea.

[01:18:09]and Andrea will be joining Vanessa later at 2 p.m. So, welcome back to the show with Sylvia and Paula. Before we get back into the papers, I I'll mention a video here. So, so there was this was it called Unite the Kingdom March, which was Tommy Robinson and Farright and so on. And they had a stage and they had people singing You'll Never Walk Alone.

[01:18:28]And this is what it sounded like.

[01:18:42]This is Ricky Dulan singing. It has been faked and they've made it sound very, very bad. So have a listen. walk with you never lift up. Come on.

[01:19:07]Walk on.

[01:19:10]Oh god.

[01:19:17]>> So Ricky Dulan is the singer and he's taking legal action now, >> right?

[01:19:25]>> Because people the second one was the one that someone had autotuned or made it sound. The first one wasn't completely on, but I think it's caused by Pierce Morgan on his uncensored YouTube channel was played out the the fake one or the one that had been d-tuned, >> right?

[01:19:46]>> And then and said it was the worst performance in the history of English music.

[01:19:50]>> And so Ricky Dooland is now >> it's always like >> would you're a lawyer. Would he win that case for defamation?

[01:19:58]Well, can I start off by saying I'm not a defamation lawyer, just like to protect myself here. Um, I mean, what harm has he suffered? He's singing at a Unite Britain, uh, a protest march.

[01:20:12]Um, I'm sure just standing on that stage is enough to cause harm to his professional con like >> at some point while he was singing, Tommy Robinson went like that and like that. And that was when you put that together with the D-tuned version, it looks like Tommy Robinson has said, "I can't handle this anymore."

[01:20:32]>> So if even he could have it, but I Yeah.

[01:20:35]>> Anybody in the public eye these days leaves themselves open to to this awful change of AI as well, don't they? But you know, he didn't sound great in the first one. To be quite honest, I couldn't tell the difference.

[01:20:48]>> Well, he's put out now both of them in in showing the real one and the fake one. And so anyway, there we are. He's taking legal action. I shouldn't laugh.

[01:20:55]Okay. Football news. The story is all over the back pages today. We can look at the Sun. Um, let's just We'll show the sun. Can we or should I hold it up?

[01:21:04]Go on. Let's There you go. They've done it. Reference to the Gunners. Arsenal who are called that because they started off in as a gunnery team and they were crowned Premier League champions last night. They weren't even playing. This happened because Man City had to win at Bournemouth to keep the title race going. But a goal in the first half from Junior Krooppy set them back in a race with Nunez and gets there first. IT'S KROOPPY.

[01:21:34]IT'S GLORIOUS.

[01:21:41]It's one thing HAVING THE TIME, IT'S ANOTHER ONE TO FIND THAT SPOT AS HE DOES. DONOVAN DOESN'T EVEN BOTHER to move. What a finish this is.

[01:21:52]Nice. But then City managed the last minute equalizer through Erling Harland who was right deep into stoppage time.

[01:22:02]OVER THE HEAD KICK CLEAR AND it's hit THE POST AND HARLAND DRIVES IT IN BUT IS IT TOO LATE? THAT'S A fantastic finish to breathe a bit of life into this City team. Boy, do they need it.

[01:22:19]It is not over yet.

[01:22:22]>> Well, you can see the time 95 minutes.

[01:22:23]It wasn't enough. The draw from Man City meant Arsenal couldn't be caught. And we can see the moment the Arsenal squad watched the final whistle blow.

[01:22:49]Hundreds of Arsenal fans took to the streets to celebrate. We could speak to a friend of the show and Arsenal fan Marvin Harrison. Well, congrats, Marvin.

[01:23:00]>> Uh, good morning, Jeremy. I'm I'm I'm too excited, too late, and I only woke up uh 45 minutes ago after staying at the Emirates until about 2:30 a.m.

[01:23:10]celebrating with all the amazing Arsenal fans. So I have had a great time.

[01:23:14]>> So So I was It's a strange one, isn't it? Where you become champions while not being on the pitch. So I'm just thinking that the immediate thought is let's get down to your stadium. Is that right?

[01:23:26]>> Yeah, absolutely. Look, we I was out with friends um and we were doing something completely different and then the game came on behind us and I was like, "Oh, of course, yes." So we started watching and look, I I thought Bulma are a great team. That's me singing out my car. Bulma are a fantastic team and we always knew they could show up. Um they needed a point to also confirm their place in Europe. So there was a lot of jeopardy happening in that one game. Uh and very quickly we came to realize that Bournemouth were probably going to uh to nick it. They actually could have gone 3-0 up at one point. Um and they missed two big chances, but it was really really tense at the end as Harland scored that that amazing goal in the angle in the way that he did it. And we just thought, is there enough time for them to turn the wheels and be lucky like they have over years and years and years and steal it from the the grips of Arsenal? And and they weren't. And honestly, it took about an hour for it to reach my body that it actually had happened cuz we've been denied the last five. Um but absolutely elated.

[01:24:26]The scenes at the stadium were incredible and everybody I I have never hugged so many people. I have no idea who they are. Um yeah, it was a great great time. Okay, Marvin, thank you so much. Congratulations. Speaking as a Chelsea fan. Happy to congratulate you.

[01:24:42]We are out of I don't even know where we are in the table actually. It's so embarrassing. And we give a shout out to another friend of the show, Gavin Ramjorn. He was fully kitted out with his son this morning >> cuz they've been celebrating. Well done both.

[01:24:56]>> So, over to some big news from the Championship. This is the the the obviously the division below the Premier League. Southampton have been kicked out of the Championship playoffs for spying on opponents three times and filming their training sessions. Southampton was set to face Hull on Saturday for a chance promotion to the Premier League.

[01:25:15]That's known as the biggest money game in sport because you're going up into the league and all the additional money that comes in. So Middlesborough will take their place. Southampton can and will appeal. Leaked images show William Salt, a first team performance analysis intern next to a tree while recording Middlesborough training. What's wrong?

[01:25:37]This is exactly what you should be doing.

[01:25:39]>> You couldn't make this up.

[01:25:42]>> If this was women, everybody would be up in arms and it's it's they're spying on each other. I mean, it's just it just beggars belief.

[01:25:51]>> So why why ARE THEY BEING PUNISHED? that leads to this a few seasons ago with the very eccentric manager called Be Elsa and everyone said, "Look, just don't do it again. It's a bit, you know, they were getting drones and stuff. I don't know what's wrong with this, >> Jeremy. You don't know what's wrong with somebody's spine on you. There's nothing that makes you feel remotely uncomfortable about that out and go, I'm photographing you. I'm filming you. Hello, I'm >> I'm going to cheat. I'm going to steal all your tactics and use them myself.

[01:26:22]>> I'm not even so bothered about that bit.

[01:26:24]I just think this surreptitious stuff of heightened subusion is what makes it an absolute joke.

[01:26:31]>> Well, it it is ridiculous. I mean, the amount of money potentially it's cost.

[01:26:35]It's a disaster.

[01:26:38]>> Yeah.

[01:26:38]>> Well, I don't Yeah. Did they use Southampton use drones?

[01:26:41]>> No. No, I don't. See, I just got a guy the intern with binoculars.

[01:26:46]>> The poor intern. You know, it had to be the port intern.

[01:26:48]>> You didn't even get the glint of the, you know, in the sunlight, you get the glint of course. I mean, on a on a serious note, they are going to be facing charges now. The FA are considering bringing charges against them. Jeremy, I mean, this is serious stuff. And what are we talking about here? We're talking about cheating.

[01:27:03]We're talking about what has happened to the spirit of sport, which is all about fairness and justice, you know, fair play. Uh, this is this is ridiculous. I mean, I thought Bloodgate was crazy in rugby. That was a bad one.

[01:27:16]>> You know, I thought that was crazy and now we've got Spygate.

[01:27:19]>> Yeah. Okay. Well, then maybe I'm I should take it more seriously. I just can't. In the Mirror, the Metropolitan Police will submit their files to the Crown Prosecution Service this summer on suspects linked to Grenful Tower. The fire killed 72 people, but it already feels like a long time ago, 2017.

[01:27:37]>> So, we're nearly 10 years ago.

[01:27:39]Detectives investigating will hand over the names, we gather, of 57 individuals and 20 organizations as part of what they call operation Northley, which was set up after a two-part public inquiry.

[01:27:51]The delay is the public inquiry, isn't it? That's they had to wait for that.

[01:27:54]>> That's right.

[01:27:55]>> And because of that, the public inquiry was a bit stilted because people were worried about being investigated for what they'd said in it.

[01:28:02]>> Absolutely. And and you're right to to recognize and identify that we're coming up to the decade on the 14th of June.

[01:28:08]and it's coming very close. And I I I don't know whether to address this article with a heavy heart or with with hope. And the reason why I say that and you know, forgive my breaking voice, but this still talks about this article still quite properly talks about could face criminal charges. This article still talks about possible charges. We do not have a definitive charging decision yet, Jeremy. And so what I worry for all the families who are involved uh in this tragedy is that they are still waiting for an answer after all of this time.

[01:28:51]>> Well, let's go through this. So the CPS could take a year or two years.

[01:28:56]>> So then we're at 10 years.

[01:28:58]>> Then they bring forward prosecutions, but they're staggered.

[01:29:01]>> The courts have delays. So we're three to four years on.

[01:29:04]>> Yeah. It's probably going to be 15 years after that we see the first conviction.

[01:29:09]>> And then when you're looking at the length of a trial as well.

[01:29:12]>> True. Yeah.

[01:29:12]>> Um you know, we're talking about an incredibly long time for people who have lost loved ones, for people who have suffered trauma, for people who are suffering PTSD.

[01:29:22]>> Is it fair to say also for people who are suspects who just don't get to clear their names if they think they're innocent?

[01:29:28]>> Absolutely.

[01:29:28]>> Yeah.

[01:29:29]>> Absolutely. and the families that are involved uh in that you know they are all living in this tortological nightmare where we have a system you were saying you know you know why can't we just get things to work it it's it's very interesting my um stepg granddaughter uh was uh damaged at birth and u she's had a case against the hospital which is finally coming to fruition she's 19 years old >> and and their family have struggled. I cannot imagine, you know, but it I'm just comparing the fact that everything takes so long and >> well, look at the the Scottish motor home case, which is still the SMP related one.

[01:30:13]>> What's what's that mean there?

[01:30:15]>> I mean, there's there seems to be a case on coming. It's been years.

[01:30:18]>> Yeah. So I don't we just got used to think >> a lot of these people are going to die before you know the the older people are going to die before they ever know.

[01:30:27]>> Seen it post office inquiry. We've seen it. Absolutely. Have we have we ever >> the actual record maybe a couple of guys I met yesterday at the charity event I mentioned not forgotten were veterans of Christmas Island where we're pretty certain that troops were placed with only sunglasses and shorts 12 miles from an atomic explosion and it's pretty clear they wanted to find out how it affected them >> and two of them was sitting next to me yesterday.

[01:30:56]>> Yeah. I met a family who were going to that last weekend. Yeah. They were the and they're still waiting the the the the elderly 90year-old wife and her daughter and daughter and you know so forth >> and they they they know they're going to get some compensation but they're in their 80s now >> in the times net migration expected to fall to postcoid levels >> in other words the Sylvia the the period just after CO what does this mean is this just a transient thing or >> I' I've found this article rather interesting because the stats are pretty ridiculous it says that of of 693,000 departures, we were only Brits were only a third um of of people uh leaving here first of all and others were mainly foreign students going back. So, so it's it's you know the stats are weird, but I think um you know if you compare the people coming in um as well of Brits, you've got people who uh can't live in Spain anymore because of the new rules.

[01:32:00]You've got um you've got people in Portugal whose 10-year tax relief on pensions, you know, that were they were encouraged to go out there are coming back. It's it it it's an interesting thing. I think it's more it's harder to leave this country now. It's harder to get into some countries. You know, they don't want us in in a lot of cases unless you've got um a lot of money um and you can get very special visas etc. >> So So if fewer people are leaving then migration net migration should be going up >> but it's going down.

[01:32:35]>> Yeah. I I but the actual article when you read it, it's going on about the fact that there are so many people coming back to the UK, but there's also of all the people that left, a lot of them were students. So if they're foreign students, you can't really they're only allowed here at 18 months anyway. So I'm not quite getting the >> I think the big issue is and where and where we see this figure in reality is in regards to our social care, in regards to our hospitality industry, people who would come in and work in those industries, people in our building industry. Exactly. Um and so those are the industries that we are really seeing struggling now because of this immigration policy that was taken by Labour, which they're now saying in this article, oh hang on a minute, I think we might have to scrap this. And you know, if anyone is in any doubt about how much we need people to come in and work, then just go on the.gov website where it talks about jobs. Uh, and it's all there.

[01:33:30]>> All right, let's just move on. Paula in the mail. Kylie reveals she had secret second battle with battle with cancer just 5 years ago. So, breast cancer twice.

[01:33:39]>> Yeah.

[01:33:40]>> And she she's putting out a a documentary. So, we, you know, we'll learn a bit more about it, I guess. M I mean it's just it it it affects us all, doesn't it, Jeremy? It doesn't matter who we are.

[01:33:53]And I appreciate this sounds really quite uh insensitive, but it really doesn't matter who you are, what you look like, how much money you have. Um you can be attacked by this hideous disease. Um >> some things make it more likely. Smoking makes it more likely. Being obese makes it more likely. more likely. But then how many times I mean within my own family I have family members who have been struck down uh who didn't smoke who are obese of course >> um and uh I I think you know when you when you look at Kylie and when you you think about this person that you see on TV and on stage living their best lives and being amazing but then understanding now that they were going through this battle um it it just brings life into perspective. The thing is though that you cannot delay treatment. So many people and and and particularly women because they want to have children and so forth. And I know that that is so important. But why delay treatment ever >> to accommodate something else?

[01:34:55]>> Is that what people do? They really put it off until after the wedding. because they want to have they want to have a baby or they um or they it's awful because sometimes you find out you've got it when you're pregnant and obviously you don't want to kill your baby. You want your baby.

[01:35:12]>> And it's a a terrible predicament, but it happens to men as well. You know, in sport and so forth, you've got something I've got to keep doing this. I've got to achieve that.

[01:35:21]>> I mean, what she says here ultimately is that she just wants to remind people to do their checks.

[01:35:25]>> Yeah.

[01:35:26]>> And be that male or female. uh do your change. So >> yeah. Yeah.

[01:35:30]>> Good luck to her. Okay. In the Star, Gemma Collins drafted into power in shock new role. So this is Sorry, >> I I don't get this. This is a I've been watching it and it's a video that the government has decided to put together using Gemma Collins going into the Department for Education.

[01:35:54]Right. What are we doing to help the children?

[01:36:03]>> Come in. Let's have a chat.

[01:36:06]>> That's not Oh, I don't know. I don't want to say that's not good, but I can see what they're driving at, which is somebody who's entertaining for younger people.

[01:36:13]>> Yes. This isn't for us.

[01:36:14]>> Bridget Phillips, there was this education secretary.

[01:36:17]>> Yes.

[01:36:17]>> Come in. Let's have a chat.

[01:36:19]>> Yeah. This isn't for us. Like that that advert is not for us. Okay. It's for um people who get their information online, but specifically people who get their information online in 30 second one minute bite-sized chunks. Um I'm thinking about my teenager. I'm thinking about perhaps slightly older who know recognize Gemma Collins for who and what she is and how amazing she is.

[01:36:45]>> Yeah. All right. Well, let's see. Maybe it'll catch on more after the break, including why the term shoplifting might be undergoing a rebrand. We'll see you very soon.

[01:36:58]Before the break, we asked on the Italian island of Capri, what type of shoes are band? Too noisy? Is it stilettos, flip-flops, or wooden clogs?

[01:37:06]It is wooden clogs.

[01:37:16]>> I know the Italians would they'd look at clogs and go, >> I know they're not stylish. They are basically before Crocs we had clogs and both of them in the bin. Tonight a new drama looks back at the disappearance of Meline McCann by the way >> and specifically when her own mother came under suspicion. So I thought we should see a trailer of this.

[01:37:38]>> There has been a shift in the investigation.

[01:37:41]>> I have told you everything I know.

[01:37:45]>> We don't believe you.

[01:37:46]>> Why not?

[01:37:47]>> They have a lot of evidence against you both. Are you saying that I had something to do with Muddler's disappearance?

[01:37:54]>> Did you?

[01:37:55]>> Look out for Under Suspicion Kate McCann tonight, 9:00 p.m. here on 5. In the Times, US to shrink troops available to NATO for wars and crises. Well, we kind of knew it was coming, Sylvia, didn't we?

[01:38:08]>> We most certainly did. It's >> the Trump thing.

[01:38:10]>> Yeah. I mean, he's just hellbent on disrupting everything he can. and withdrawing troops is not only going to be bad for NATO, but it's also going to be very bad for the economies of the countries he pulls them out of.

[01:38:24]>> Well, it's funny. He's I could see he he doesn't want Americans to be involved in Europe because who cares? But he did want us to get involved in Iran. So that that was the thing that confused the MAGA crowd.

[01:38:36]>> Yeah.

[01:38:37]>> Because he said, "We're not doing any foreign wars and George Bush Jr. should be in jail."

[01:38:41]>> Yeah.

[01:38:42]>> For going into Iraq and Afghanistan and then he bombs Iran. So >> yeah, >> we're all left a bit confused.

[01:38:47]>> Totally. But then who's surprised at that? You know, we're dealing with a man who is confused. By his very essence, everything he does is confusing. What's interesting about this story though um is that there is an attempt at the Senate in the US to pass a law uh forcing Trump to withdraw from Iran. Um, now there's hardly any chance of this law being made, but interestingly, Jeremy, we've got four Republicans now who have voted in favor of this law. And so, what we are seeing, I suspect, is this drip drip slowly slowly Republicans becoming more brave to stand up to Trump. Um, and I that's what I see actually is the interesting story out of this because obviously Trump says a lot.

[01:39:33]Um, much of which comes to no fruition.

[01:39:35]Uh, but in terms of what is going on inside his own party, I think that's where the story is going to really lie.

[01:39:41]>> In the Telegraph, Barcelona putting pigeons on the pill and we could do the same, Paula.

[01:39:46]>> Well, we could. Now, isn't this a great environmental story? Because what we're not doing is killing these beautiful creatures. What we're trying to do is to help um control them in an environmentally friendly way.

[01:39:59]>> They're not they're not beautiful.

[01:40:02]They're wonderful creatures. They're vermin just like rats. They They are vermin. They're >> And just like rats, they are a wonderful member of the chain. That that that wonderful just walking in Hide Park last night. It was two rats. Yeah. In the day, you know, >> looking healthy. Looking very fit and healthy. I bet >> it's not nice. It was not nice.

[01:40:22]>> But at what point do we say that, you know, what someone says whales are vermin? For example, you can't just Well, you just said, you know, rats are vermin.

[01:40:31]Why do we call things vermin?

[01:40:33]>> Do we look at that cruise ship and see the >> Daxons of vermin? I don't I don't know what >> technically when we look at the definition of vermin we might apply that to ourselves in terms of how much we spread.

[01:40:44]>> Certainly some of us. Yeah.

[01:40:46]>> No, I don't.

[01:40:48]>> Can I just tell you?

[01:40:48]>> He's looking at me again when he says that.

[01:40:50]>> Stop that. Many years ago, I was a tour manager and I had a a couple of people who actually said, "We have erected a sign on our balcony because the pigeons keep landing there and it says pigeons do not land here and they're ignoring it."

[01:41:04]>> I love that they Yeah, there's some obviously some issues there in the Telegraph call to rename shoplifting because it trivializes serious crime.

[01:41:12]Good point. Shoplifting sounds like it's just >> a little bit of a caper.

[01:41:17]>> Sounds like >> what would we call it? Just basically serious theft. It's devastating. It's devastating to businesses. I mean, you see these videos online where people are actually running in in groups and grabbing stuff. Do they not >> The idea they're running into steel nappies the effect and and it's just Yeah. I'm sorry.

[01:41:35]>> So, what would you call it?

[01:41:37]>> What would you call it? If you didn't call it shoplifting, which sounds like it's just your >> nicking theft. Yeah. Why do we need to complicate this? That's theft. Like burglars are people who break into your house. You're a thief. a thief. You're thieving. And >> what about shop robbery?

[01:41:53]>> Could you go for that? Because there is often a threat. You're a bit of a >> Yeah. There's not always violence involved.

[01:41:59]>> Robbers makes you sound like a bandit, you know? It's it's it's more than a bunch of bandidos. It's people ruining everything for everybody. Prices go up, businesses fail just because these people think it's their right to go in and take.

[01:42:14]>> Yeah. Well, it seems to be a real feature of our society now, doesn't it?

[01:42:19]>> I mean, it it's always existed obviously and and can I just say the criminal organization element of it has always existed. Um what is more prevalent now of course is the cost of living crisis which is adding um uh to the issue. And so I know Jeremy that you you're saying, "Oh, they're not running in there and stealing baby formula." I accept that.

[01:42:41]But when we look at the top 10 items that are being stolen, baby formula does appear very much so.

[01:42:46]>> Not the these gangs who go in so-called steaming.

[01:42:49]>> Yes, >> it's champagne, not baby formula.

[01:42:52]>> I accept that. But what I don't want to do is for us to make this a topic across, you know, national reporting that it is about gang steaming in. It is still about the baby formula.

[01:43:03]>> I had a guy come up to me in my local sainsburries the other day who said, uh, I know you. I watch your show. that lovely. He was quite a tall young man.

[01:43:13]Uh as soon I said, "Oh, thank you. It's nice to meet you, my friend." Literally, I turn away. He's done for shoplifting.

[01:43:20]>> Oh.

[01:43:21]>> Uh and they said, "You're banned. You've been shoplifting all day. You've been in three times."

[01:43:27]>> I've now used the word shoplifting.

[01:43:29]>> What do you do though if you see somebody?

[01:43:30]>> Well, if it's one of my viewers, >> Yeah.

[01:43:32]>> as well.

[01:43:33]>> I know.

[01:43:33]>> That's awkward.

[01:43:34]>> What do you do if you see somebody? Do you You know, my husband's always saying, "Don't say anything.

[01:43:39]I'm going in next time. I'm sick of >> people standing by.

[01:43:43]>> Well, he's frightened of the violence that you result of it.

[01:43:47]>> You get to a certain age. You got less to lose.

[01:43:48]>> Yeah, exactly. Thank you.

[01:43:50]>> So much I just want you.

[01:43:52]>> I'm the same. I'm I turned 61. I think I want to a funeral. He died a hero. You can make the speech.

[01:43:58]>> Oh, bless you.

[01:43:59]>> He died a hero.

[01:44:00]>> I'd be too busy crying. I would be I would be just bereft. I'd be sobbing.

[01:44:05]>> Oh, stop it. Right. Okay. Thank you both for joining me for this brilliant show.

[01:44:09]That's all we got time for. There is more to come. Let's just go over to our wall here. We've got the five on five coming. I think it's the OG as well today. So, thank you so much for being with us for the last two hours. We do appreciate it very very much as we've pedled around the park. And Storm is on her way along with Alexis and then Matt Allright who's on at 12:50 and of course the great Vanessa. I saw Vanessa at the charity thing I mentioned yesterday. We had a fantastic chat. 2:00 Vanessa. So, what's coming? Well, Storm Alexis asking, "Is it okay to treat hospital patients online?" Get your calls in for that now. 0207862.

[01:44:43]Treat hospital patients online. How does that work? You're inspecting someone's knee. Facebook, Tik Tok, the Insta, and YouTube as well. They're all there.

[01:44:54]Vanessa, Matt, Alexis, Storm, give us a wave and we can say see you tomorrow.

[01:45:02]What is the best