Johannesburg faces deepening financial crisis as warning signals intensify

追加: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]702 [music] The big interview with Bongani Bingwa.

[00:00:04]>> Don't do it. In a scathing letter, the Finance Minister, Enoch Godongwana, has warned the Joburg Mayor, Dada Morero, to halt a 10.3 billion rand wage agreement with municipal workers because the city simply doesn't have the money. Treasury pointed to a series of violations of legislative and procurement requirements, including things like poor governance and financial management. Our next guest seeks to be the mayor of Johannesburg and has put it more bluntly, the city is bankrupt, she says.

[00:00:34]Helen Zille is the DA Joburg Mayoral candidate and joins us now. Always a pleasure to have you on the show, Helen.

[00:00:39]How bad is the mess?

[00:00:41]>> It's extraordinary. I mean, I knew it was bad, but until I saw the Minister of Finance's letter, I didn't know quite how bad. I mean, the city can no longer sustainably provide services. It cannot meet its obligations. It cannot maintain infrastructure or restore financial stability from its own revenue base at all. And it owes creditors 21 billion rand more than it's got.

[00:01:05]Now, in any context, that has to be bankruptcy. The only reason why Joburg is not liquidated is that there has to be a municipal authority and normally it would be applied for a bailout like Eskom and all of those other entities that have done that forever. But in this instance, the minister is saying, "You will not even get your equitable share if you continue with this recklessness and bad financial management." We now sit with the with the news, as you might have expected, uh SAMWU, the South African Municipal Workers Union, uh rejecting that move to stop the 10.3 billion rand wage deal. It's one you have flagged, arguing it diverts money away from infrastructure investment.

[00:01:49]It absolutely does. And when you think about it, the 10.3 billion rand is more than the entire annual capital budget of the city of Joburg.

[00:01:59]And the city hasn't got the money. It owes 21 billion more than it has. So, if they're going to pay out another 10.3 billion rand at this stage, where is that money going to come from unless the infrastructure maintenance budget is slashed even more? And I don't even think they're going to find the 10.3 billion rand in the money for maintenance because it isn't there. This is the result of cumulative looting, theft, corruption, mismanagement that we've been seeing through the years. So, this isn't just incompetence, it's something worse.

[00:02:32]Oh, much worse. I mean, over a long time, the methodologies for corruption and looting leave me dumbstruck, literally dumbstruck when I find out about them everywhere. It's systemic, it is syndicated, and it is absolutely entrenched. And the And the voters are going to have to take note of this. They really are going to have to take note of this. Helen Zille themselves what they're going to do. When last we spoke, I said to you, no matter how well-intentioned your return to Johannesburg may be, you would only be but one person. You now say this is all systemic and entrenched over a long period of time. What's your plan to fix it?

[00:03:11]Well, my plan to fix it is number one, to get a good team around me. I'm doing a lot of research at the moment, and I want to thank the very brave people who letting me know just how bad the corruption is and how and where it manifests. Having that information is a very very good start because we can walk in with strategies.

[00:03:30]We'll focus particularly on the entities because I won't scrap the entities. It's much easier to reform the entities than it is to reform the core administration.

[00:03:40]I will focus very much on getting expertise into the entities, ensuring that corruption is broken wide open. I'll get forensic auditors in. I'll speak to the auditor general as a first port of call who can guide me on these issues. And we will also speak very closely to the National Treasury that's been studying the mess in Joburg. And they, I have no doubt, will assist me in getting my hand exactly on the rot and turning it around. But obviously, as you rightly say, I'm only one person. I'm going to have a fantastic team of people who've been doing their work and doing their research. And we will make sure that we expose what is happening and over time fix it. I mean, if this is stalled or even stopped, I can't imagine SAMWU taking it lying down. We've seen similar action in the city of Tshwane, for example, when Sheila Nkosi was mayor.

[00:04:32]Can the same thing happen in Joburg? And is Joburg I mean, can Joburg be rescued?

[00:04:39]Look, the same thing can happen in Joburg. But the But the SAMWU must realize, you know, I'm not against SAMWU. I believe work workers have the right to unionize and to organize. But if there's no money, there's no money.

[00:04:51]If the city was a company, it would be in liquidation.

[00:04:55]They would be paying the creditors 1 cent in the rand or something else ridiculous. It would be in total liquidation and none of the workers would have any jobs whatsoever. People must understand this.

[00:05:07]There is no money.

[00:05:09]And if people want to destroy every job, then that's the way to go about it.

[00:05:15]The other thing is that when government collapses like Johannesburg is collapsing, the people who suffer most are the poor.

[00:05:22]The rich can sink boreholes. They can put solar panels on their roof. They can even remove their own rubbish. They can get their own security. All of that is cushioned for them.

[00:05:33]But the poor have nothing. They depend on a capable state for water, for electricity, for every single basic services that give them a decent dignified life. All right, Helen.

[00:05:46]>> And when We'll have to leave it there for now.

[00:05:48]>> collapses, that's the end. We'll have to leave it there. DA Joburg mayoral candidate Helen Zille.