The juvenile justice system in Ohio allows for mandatory transfer to adult court when there is probable cause, regardless of the offender's age or rehabilitation potential, which can result in harsher sentences than would be given to adult offenders for similar crimes.
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Mackenzie Shirilla— Natalie’s PR tour following Netflix documentaryAdded:
an incarcerated individual at Kyahoga County Correction Center. This call is not private.
>> What the [ __ ] This phone's st. And now I just like smell [ __ ] Like I just like smell something.
>> Somebody's probably farting.
>> I have no idea who the [ __ ] that is.
>> But I'm surprised she only gave me like 15. Like I thought she was going to give me like 85 years.
>> That's what I was expecting. I thought she was going to say life without parole like in some maximum security prison on Alcatraz on the moon. She gave me 15 years and I do get pearl.
>> Yeah, >> that's crazy as [ __ ] Glad we have a cat at meow. It's like I never like seen that in my life. That's why I asked these bees to Jesus tree. I teach him to eat.
>> I wish I was in here with 12 and 13 year olds. Hair so long. I could braid it if I wanted to.
>> You should braid it.
>> I'm not talking about my hair on my head.
>> Oh, >> talking about my leg and my coochie and my armpits actually. Mackenzie Sharilla has been in the spotlight since Netflix released their documentary, The Crash.
We've also seen the power of a pissed-off big sister that has come forward to debunk the lies and misinformation.
Natalie Sherilla recently joined the JFK podcast for an interview. Tonight, we are going to take a look at what she said and what we know. But first, thanks for being here. Don't forget to hit the like button and give us a follow. Now, here are your hosts, Amber and Velma.
>> Eight minutes late. Not bad. Lonnie, welcome.
>> Lonnie's new. Welcome, Lonnie.
>> You're new here. Welcome. We love new people.
>> Yes, we welcome everyone except Natalie Sharilla.
>> Hey, you know what? She's welcome, too.
>> No, she is. She's welcome. She's welcome. But we have some questions.
>> I told you I was fixing that, justifying. Hey, Arie.
>> Yeah, we would. We have some questions.
If um if she would like to talk, we can talk behind the scenes first, you know, if she wants to do that, but >> right, >> then we'll make it public.
I would love to talk to her. I don't think she would want to talk to me. And then it also feels disrespectful.
>> But I would I I mean I have questions, you know, and I would ask the hard questions. That's the problem.
>> I don't want to talk to the ones that are going to ask the hard questions, >> the difficult questions. So, um, >> she did this interview Saturday night. I didn't see it till yesterday.
Um, and so for a tiny second I felt bad for her as a what my mama heart, you know.
>> Yep.
>> But then there's also two other mamas and sisters and a dad.
>> Mom and Yeah.
>> And so that kind of left me, you know. Yep.
>> Um, >> and I know we're going to cover it, but like there was one part that just like it really ticked me off the way that she answered and I was like, "Wow."
Yeah.
And Angela, I can fix that for you. Um, so yeah. And and the phone calls that have come out today that have been coming out all day. Um, >> I haven't even caught up, but I've been >> Yeah, there's a ton of them. Feeling good, but >> I'm gonna put some more out tomorrow, but um, I have sped up the the interview and I have taken out about 15 minutes of of just like slow times.
>> Okay.
>> So that we can like move a little quicker. But as she says some things, we'll go over some stuff, you know what I mean?
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> That we have that we know. And so, um, and if that doesn't take us too long, then we can go over that one phone call that we talked about earlier that was like freaking crazy, >> right?
>> And, >> and if we don't get to that one, I mean, >> phone calls are going to be dropping like hot cakes for a little while cuz they had what, 97 calls, >> right? And I see >> blender dropping them and I see phone calls from prison and I saw you had one at least one.
>> Yeah, I have several that I I just I kind of got um sidetracked, you know.
>> No, no, you're you're a busy you're a busy woman and the kids are out of school and >> they are and we leaving to go out of town tomorrow. So, >> yeah.
>> Well, me and the oldest are going out of town, >> right?
Arie will probably be on for a little while.
>> So, you'll probably catch us if you come back.
>> All right. So, >> we say an hour, but we tend to make it too. So, >> yeah. I saw rambling.
>> Somebody complained about that the other day, so I'm like, sorry, I'm a rambler.
>> I think that's very much just Louisiana, but >> yeah, I go to a store and I'm making a friend while I'm there. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
>> Even my daughter does that. She's like, "Thank you. How are you today?"
>> Okay.
Somebody I don't know. Yep.
>> Yep. So, um we'll go ahead and start it and see um see where this goes.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Hello, Natalie.
>> Hey, how are you?
>> Hey, thank you for being here. Thank you for being here.
>> Thank you.
>> I've also sped it up, so I just wanted to say that, too.
Nice seeing you on this Saturday.
So now, first and foremost, um I want to say, you know, um sorry for your loss with Dom. I know you knew Dom and uh you knew Damian. Um so sorry for your loss and um what you're going through. I know it's tough and thank you for being here and taking your time first and foremost.
>> I'm probably going to cry a whole lot.
So sorry in advance. I'm going to try not to, though.
>> That's all right. That's all right. Like I said on this on this channel, we're not you see me I this the reason why this case I'm going to be real with you.
Um I didn't really know much about this case back in 2022. You know, I heard about it here and there on Court TV and on the internet on Tik Tok popped up through the feed. But obviously with the Netflix doc that just came out, it kind of put another fire underneath it. So here we are. But to me, it's just I just don't understand like the mindset of a juvenile where we're at, you know, with kids. These kids nowadays, you know, how old is Natalie? She's 21, correct?
>> Mackenzie. You mean Mackenzie? My bad.
>> Mackenzie, my glasses on. Is the glare bothering you? Because I cannot see you without my glasses on. Is the glare okay?
>> No. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Okay.
>> How old is Mackenzie? 21.
>> Mhm.
>> She's 21. Yeah. So, um, why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself?
Where did you grow up exactly? Um, I grew up in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio.
That >> like growing up?
>> It was great. I I love my family. I'm I'm one of We have a big family and a lot of kids and great parents and pets and a neighborhood community that we I'm old school, so we played out until midnight, you know, and stayed out of the house all day and then came home and and everything. So, yeah, I had a great childhood.
>> Oh, wow. That's awesome. And is that the same is that the same area where um McKenzie grew up? No, we she grew up in Strongsville and um she was kind of one of the last age groups to um be outside riding her bike without a phone, you know, so she was kind of one of those last kids to go climb trees and dig in a ditch and play in the creek and and all that stuff. So um I didn't I think I I I ended up getting her a phone when you know it's it's rough when kids this whole cell phone thing um was rough because we started getting rid of landlines. Did you guys ever go through that where people started getting rid of their landlines? Right.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, if you have a child who's out riding their bike all over the neighborhood um and they're at a friend's house, they can't call because they have there's no landline, right?
And especially if you have a little um well, not a little kid, but of age riding a bike around the neighborhood.
Um especially a little girl, it's a scary thing if somebody approaches them and they have no means to ask for help or call stuff. I mean, I gave her like like a whistle to blow and stuff, but >> um the thing is when you go to a friend's house >> and they want to call me um they can't.
So, they have to use the mom's cell phone, which is >> Yes. She said that that McKenzie is one of the last generations to grow up without a cell phone.
I think we're going to see that she says a lot of things that aren't like um I didn't have a cell phone >> because I have I have nephews older than her and they had phones like and that just doesn't I mean yeah we didn't have cell phones we rode around but we're in our >> we had beepers with >> for Oh, McKenzie wouldn't know what a pay phone was.
>> No, they don't have those anymore.
>> She's only 21 years old.
>> Mhm.
Yeah. She said they were getting rid of the the landlines, right? But um she was like one of the last >> people I babysat for in junior high got rid of their landlines. Come on.
>> Yeah. My kids always had a watch though, so that like I could call them on that little watch, you know? my little my my son, my daughter, you know, she's >> she's spoiled rotten.
>> She does have >> she has the um the Apple Watch.
>> Mine has an iPad. So, I mean, you know, I can get in touch with her if she But she's never without an adult either.
Like, >> yeah. Yeah. Mine either. I mean, she might go off with my neighbor who we know very very well, >> and I'm still like I I talk to the, you know, I talk to my friend Britney, you know, constantly like, >> so I I just always know where she's at.
>> Yep. Same.
>> So, >> yeah, that just shocks me that she said that like McKenzie is one of the last generations to grow up >> without a cell phone.
>> Mhm.
>> That generation.
>> Kind of weird, right?
>> Yeah. Kind of weird.
>> Yeah. had somebody use her cell phone to call me. So, we end up having to get her phone just like ride around the neighborhood and stuff. But, she was one of those last kids where you always knew where all the kids were cuz there was a bunch of bikes in the yard, you know, that kind of. So, yeah.
>> Was there a lot of crime? Was there a lot of crime in that area?
>> No.
>> None. Yeah. It still is.
>> What's the population over there? Do you know off the bat? Well, it well, it's getting a lot like um um there's a lot of new buildings and structures that are being built and shopping plazas and um the people at Strongsville are kind of trying to not pass those law or bills or whatever they're called because our infrastructure can't handle a whole lot and the traffic is insane. Um it's it's it's a lot. So, there's a lot more than there ever has before.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's still pretty safe.
There's just a lot of kids. There's a lot of families, but way more.
>> Now, um what what what um do you do for a living, if you don't mind me asking?
No, that's okay though.
>> Okay. Okay. You don't have to answer that if you don't want to. Um, but let me say this. Um, so you you grew up in what part of uh Ohio again? What was the name of it? That where you grew up?
>> It was like the like a west suburb like >> very suburb. So how far is um the city?
It's Cleveland is the city, right? From where um she grew. How far is that from where uh Mackenzie grew up?
>> Everything where we live everything is 20 30 minutes away.
>> Oh, okay. So she got So she got access to the city.
>> You mean the Cleveland? Like downtown?
>> Cleveland? Yeah. Like like Yeah. to the to the main part of Cleveland, right?
>> Yeah. Everything is 20 30 minutes away.
Yeah.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah. Does she hang out over that way? Does she go into Cleveland into the city at all?
>> I mean, she take pictures sometimes and things like that. She would go take um photos. She was had friends with like um like her modeling portfolio and stuff.
So, things like that. There's a lake, you know, right by Lake Erie, so we would see like Rocky River Lake and the Edgewater Beach and stuff. It's really pretty.
>> Nice. So, let's travel on a little bit.
So, how was she um in going to school?
Was she into sports like um when she was younger? Say like elementary school. Did you guys have her in sports or like what type of kid was she if you don't mind?
>> No, that's okay. So, we tried a couple things. We did. We tried volleyball volleyball. That wasn't her thing. Um we did um valet and tap and stuff and she kind of liked that but she wanted to do that more with like friends and stuff.
She really likes karate, right?
>> Oh, nice.
>> Yeah, she loved karate and that whole that whole thing. So, yes, that was her favorite thing.
>> And she had no problem with school. Did she get into fights or anything like that? How was she work and play with others? Good.
>> So, it's not she didn't she had she had challenges. Okay. There was a lot of fisticuffs with like um teachers and whatnot. And she I always used to tell her um like if if her friend told her that she can't have something or her friend can't have something, she would stand up for her friend or herself and not like back down from that. So there was a little fisticuffs with teachers that way.
Um, but she had, you know, she had a mouth, so she used to get in trouble for her for her mouth quite often, but not like twice >> now.
Uhoh. Is it my internet?
Hey, you're muted.
>> I feel like Kit just now, >> bro. It the video stopped and I was like, is it my internet? I was like, the chat's still going. The ticker at the top still going. And then when the screen changed and you pulled something up, I was like, oh, never mind.
So yeah, my StreamYard is not working like great. So um >> no, my neighbor kept freaking me out when I was backstage >> that she had. Let me go to the screen. I don't like Sharon screens usually. I like to um >> have everything.
>> I usually like to have everything in there, but that's just not how life doesn't work how you want. So um anyway, Strongsville police were called and this was on February 9th, 2018 because I think I wasn't paying attention because I don't know, I spaced out for a second.
Um, and they asked about had she ever been in any kind of trouble, things that had went on at school, >> right?
>> So, this is going to be from February 2018.
And basically what they're saying is a fight between two juvenile girls took place at um 132000 Pearl Road Center Middle School. So, she was in middle school at the time.
The fight took place between two eighth grade girls and happened as they were walking to the buses. Both girls exchanged words, shoved each other, and threw punches at each other. I spoke to the girls and their guardians at their homes. They were advised the school would handle the discipline for this and that it would be best if they did not have any communication with each other.
The report is for record only.
So, this is this February 9th, 2018. So, this is probably the same one. I'm not going to um the person and McKenzie had been friends on and off for several years.
They got into an argument during lunch, which carried on to after school on their way to the buses. They exchanged words, shoved each other, and threw a few punches at each other. I spoke to both parties at their residence. Neither had visible injuries and both were advised to stay away and not to post anything on social media about each other. McKenzie's father, Steven, was concerned because the other kid's older sister, who was one year older than McKenzie and the other kid, came to his house wanting to fight McKenzie after the initial incident. Steven was also extremely upset that the girl's grandfather, Ray Martinez, brought the girl to the house. I asked Ray why he brought the girl to the house, and he said he thought the girl was at the house actively fighting McKenzie. So, he went there to retrieve her.
>> What? Yeah.
>> She's in your car, but you went to retrieve her. Okay, my mama brought me to to a fight one time. I'm not going to lie. But >> Ray stated that he and blank received bad information about where the altercation took place. They thought it was on Walnut Creek and not at the school. Steven X that all the blank parties were advised to stay off his property. I relayed this information to Ry blank and blank. The parties were advised. This will be forwarded to the school for discipline. So >> maybe he just brought the older sister, >> maybe. So to go help the little sister out.
>> Yeah, maybe that's what it was. And they like maybe the older sister thought that they were at Mackenzie's house.
>> Another incident in 2018, but this is in October. So the other one was in um February. This was at Strongsville High School.
And they say that um Pentico responded to 19106 Westfield Lane for report of school bullying and menacing. The complaintant Maya I wanted to ex out her name but I didn't. Stated that her daughter was physically threatened while at Strongsville High by several students. She stated that she is fearful fear fearful for the safety of her daughter. Mrs. Muhammad stated that this incident was told to her by her daughter after school and that she wishes to a for a report to be made.
Wow.
Hey pretty fly for a wifi.
Um so this was October. The other one was February. And it says, "I spoke to blank who stated that while she was in third period class on this date, Mackenzie Sharilla called her a [ __ ] and threatened to beat her up. The child stated this was all over her not giving Sherilla a Dorito chip.
That is wild.
That's like >> will be here. um >> some like pretty elementary like you won't give me a chip, you're mean.
>> So, the child stated that Mackenzie posted on Instagram last year a picture of her showing her forehead. The caption stated that she had a big forehead. The child stated that Mackenzie tried to post the picture again today. This was brought to her attention. She stated by her friend and um the child stated she was friends with Mackenzie last year but ended the friendship because McKenzie kept getting into trouble at school and wanted to eat all her Doritos. I added that.
Um the child did report this to her guidance counselor at the end of the school.
At end of school at approximately 2:30 the child stated she was surrounded at her locker by McKenzie's friends.
threatening to beat her up and >> and taunting her to fight while Mackenzie stood behind them. She stated she was pushed into the locker, but stated that she refused to fight and pushed past them and left for the bus.
She stated as she was on the way to the bus, Mrs. Sherilla approached her and apologized for what was going on. It was apparent, she stated that the school called Mrs. Sharerilla about the incident. The child stated that Mrs. Sharilla just wanted to go home and got on told Mrs. Sharilla she just wanted to go home and get on the bus. Mrs. Muhammad was very upset about this situation and stated she will contact the school first thing Monday morning. I then went to Sherilla's residence and spoke with McKenzie and her mother.
McKenzie stated that while in third period, the little girl threatened to beat her up after she asked for a Dorito and that she did not call her a [ __ ] McKenzie stated that she did tell her friends that she was being threatened by the little girl and stated her friends told her that they have her back.
McKenzie also said that she named her three friends, did surround the little girl at the locker after school, and she stood by and looked to see what was going on.
>> Kenzie said she did not tell her friends to do this. She then stated it was the little girl that pushed and shoved into the locker and then pushed past her.
They also threw a a soda on her, but did not report this to me. As for the posting on Instagram, Mackenzie stated it was one of her friends that grabbed her phone, took the picture, and made the posting, not her. Mackenzie also stated that she was threatened by one of the little girl's friends during the school day. Both the little girl and Mackenzie were given statement forms to fill out over the weekend, and the school will deal with it.
Kenzie ain't nothing without her minions. Yeah. Mhm.
>> So, I may be naive because this is not how stuff was handled whenever I was in school. Do they always get the cops involved for things like this now?
>> They do now.
>> Okay.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. Um, so this is going to be May 14th, 2019.
Again, uh Oh, this is when she stole earrings from Kohl's. Mackenzie stole earrings from Kohl's. Earrings were not recovered. Kohl's couldn't prosecute due to the value of earrings being less than $20 >> from Kohl's.
>> Mhm.
>> Well, she was younger. Don was I mean they, you know, they didn't have the money yet. She was only like 14, 15, >> right? And this is a call that to EMS that Steve Sharilla made and we'll talk about it again later. Yeah. Over chips Doritos.
Um, Steve Sharilla called the EMS or EMTs on March 23rd, 2020 while Mackenzie was 15 years old saying that she was threatening suicide and required a psych vow.
She's anxiety.
Um, the fire department was required for the PD to respond. Female will not be transported to the hospital. Parents do not think her threats are real. They do not believe she will hurt herself. But they called so they had some sort >> right. So during the interview they ask her hey has she and we'll talk about this again. Has she ever had any um you know mental whatever and Natalie like no no Natalie's like no no can't can't think of any. This is pretty significant in my opinion.
>> I agree.
>> And then um they also ask her well we're covering now what kind of trouble did she get in school? And Natalie's like, "No, I mean, she just like talked a lot and she had like a mouth on her, >> right?" And as long as she applied herself, you know, she was good, >> ma'am. The police never came to my house when I was a kid.
>> Mine neither.
>> So, this is or when I was adult or when I was an adult. I want to make that clear.
>> So, Monday, April 4th, 2022. This is the same year that everything happened.
Menacing again. disorderly conduct.
April 4th, 2022 at 1307 hours, the victim advised that an unknown male was following her while she was driving. So, this is McKenzie that makes this report.
>> Okay.
>> What happens, and there's some video out there, um the subject exited his vehicle twice to confront the victim and at one point blocked her vehicle as was as it was parked in the driveway. The incident will be forwarded to the prosecutor for for review. So apparently McKenzie was following him and threw something at his car >> and she recorded herself, right?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. I thought he was just standing there not doing anything, but the prosecutors did charge him.
>> Uhuh.
>> Yeah, they did.
>> So it appears Daniel knocks on the window, stares, and smirks at her.
McKenzie stated she continued southbound Prospect Road and turned on to White Bark in an attempted and attempted to get away from Daniel.
Yeah, she was very scared and she pulled into the first driveway and Daniel used his vehicle to block her in. McKenzie was able to maneuver her vehicle out and continue driving. However, Daniel cut her off, parking in front of her, exited his vehicle again, and walked up to her driver's side window. In that particular video, Daniel is seen standing beside the driver window with his arms crossed, staring.
McKenzie was able to flip around and by this time contacted SWDC.
She was advised to drive to the police station.
Um, but during the video, if I am not mistaken, she was acting like out of control, being obnoxious.
>> I think so. Like road rage. Yeah.
>> Yes. Um, but this poor guy, I don't know what ever happened to it.
He was issued a misdemeanor citation.
And, you know, I never did look into it to see what had happened. Um, this was April 15th, 2022.
Parks, then right onto Whitney Road.
Somebody had a dog in their lap. The collar was a silver Camry. This is something different.
Um, this was, I believe, like a little a little hit and run like a thing. Yeah.
Yeah. But nothing ever came of it. Um, >> this girl had trouble, you know, for for what >> and for only having her driver's license for approximately 2 years.
>> Right. Right.
you think she would be still be careful like so for the you know they ask the question they're like so was she ever in any trouble Natalie's like no no not going to remember why why do you ask and then there it is so um >> the way it sounds like with this interview is like they didn't look into anything just somehow they would manage to get her on I don't know >> well I think they knew some things And I think they got her on and in a way I can see how they Yeah, Jay, this was a couple months before the accident, this last stuff.
>> Um, I think they were trying to they may not have agreed with everything she said or believed everything she said, >> but >> they weren't going to be ugly and fight with her cuz I mean then she would just go away, >> right? Then they just, you know, rage quit your interview. So, >> right. So, I think, you know, how they did it was pretty good. So, we'll go on and see what else she has to say. I'm going to try to pay attention this time.
>> Okay.
>> Was she um like her friends at school, were they the same? Does she did she keep the same group of friends from like elementary to junior high to high school? Were they the same group of friends like throughout?
>> Yeah, she stayed pretty friendly with all of them throughout.
>> And how are they feeling now about this whole situation? Is it divided or >> I don't know. I don't know. I'm giving everybody their space. I know everybody's allowed to feel how they feel. It's okay.
>> That's great. That's great. Definitely.
So, now when she was young, there was um no diagnosis with anything like that.
Did you ever take her for like an evaluation or anything like that? Did you see anything like that might have been offered her? You know, and I mean that with all due respect.
>> Well, no, that's okay. Um like, well, she's always had like anxiety. Like, who doesn't have anxiety in today's world though, right? So, that's not like super uncommon. But, um so we were trying to get her some anxiety meds. Um and then, um I was like, well, maybe maybe it's AD maybe ADD, ADHD, which is also not super common with kids today cuz there's so many distractions, right? and their device the devices are constantly going off with notifications and um we live in a on demand world right so you don't have to wait for anything everything's like right at your fingertips and it's constantly being distracted and pulled from everything so um I was trying to get her maybe see if it's that or something so um I I never got to finish with that part but um so just like anxiety you know >> anxiety did she see a do she see a doctor for that the anxiety >> so yeah she was with a she always talked to somebody with like tools on how to help cope with anxiety and everything and process and and stuff so she did okay with that >> what about the behavior like you said that she had this like sometimes she had these behavioral issues did she see like uh anybody for that the behavior >> no no She did like behavior was like what?
>> Like I'm just No. When she like got in trouble with the with the teachers or anything like that like you know talking back and things like that. Did was that part of the when she went to go see the doctor for the anxiety? Was that part of it? Was it all bunched in together?
>> So she went to go to a counselor for that who would try tools and stuff like that. But like it's not that she was um wrong and how she was feeling cuz remember everybody is allowed to feel how they feel. It was how she coped with it and dealt with the situation.
Remember she's like 15 16 right >> major at the time. So we were trying to hone in um your skills on how to deal with those kinds of situations you know.
>> Now was she in regular classes at school? cuz I know where I'm from like if you mess up they have like alternative schools you know and uh things like that where she stayed in the regular part of the school and she had good grades or decent grades and made it right through no problem >> you know when when she applied herself she'd be great right just like any you know well I shouldn't say just like any average teen herself she did really well but she got average grades >> nice yeah I mean hey you hit the bumpy roads for sure as a teenager so we're right in that pocket right now Kevin Kev you want to ask her anything >> yeah I mean uh no I mean I I see I mean I can understand a lot of it like you know I mean growing up and you know you know like you're saying the era of of of you know no landlines. I mean things were just changing for a lot of us you know and even for us adults to to adapt to it as well. I mean, >> right, >> you're taking something away from from, you know, that the the roots of how we grew up to to a change, you know, um, you know, and and the schooling, I can understand, you know, I mean, sometimes like, you know, what it sounds like is maybe she just kind of, you know, had that reputation as, you know, um, you know, a little tough, a little tough to manage. You know what I mean? she she she she was, you know, should voice her opinion if if >> you know what's funny about that is is not to interrupt you, but some of some of the teachers there um appreciated that strength in her and kind of try to cultivate that and help her grow and move through that and other teachers they don't they don't which is also okay. I can't imagine being a teacher in today's world either. So that's okay too. But um some teachers they understood where she was coming from and they knew who she was like in here and kind of you know loved her for it and stuff other teachers just really don't.
>> Yeah. I mean, and I and I can understand good point.
>> This, you know, you know, as a stubborn child, let's say, or or you know, um, is she an only child? Does she have any other siblings?
>> Oh, I don't want to talk about that because I need >> That's fine. That's fine. That's fine.
That's fine. Whatever. Whatever you don't want to talk about, it's fine.
>> Yeah. No pressure. We're just conversating. That's all I appreciate.
>> The biggest thing that that um >> that you know, I really that kind of kind of come up, you know, throughout me, you know, kind of, you know, starting to realize and learn a little bit about this case is the POTS the the Pots disease. I mean when when um when did you realize that you know she she might need to be tested or or was she tested for it?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Did she ever have any any other episodes or I mean is there any you know medical >> you know is it um documented at all or >> Sure. So there's only so much I can get into because we're in obviously as you know in the middle of talking what I can talk on but yeah she was diagnosed in 2017 >> um with pot >> and she has a couple episodes in some very scary scary situation um which can everyone hear the video or is it just Velma?
>> Well I'm not playing it right now. I'm going to play it and see.
led me to go get her tested and it turns out that she does in fact have that.
>> No, that must have that must have raised her anxiety. I mean, I can only imagine like if you're passing out and like you don't know what's wrong with you. Yeah.
Right.
>> That must be tough because I know somebody with POS. It's it's no joke.
>> It's no joke.
>> Velma, I think it's you. Get out and come back in. Streamyard is >> such a butthole lately.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's a tough thing for sure.
>> It can it can increase your anxiety because your blood pressure is up and down and it like Right.
>> like vertigo and all that. And then and not only that, you always anticipate in an episode, you know, >> everything's scary like all the time like because you have to manage what you're eating and what you're doing and stuff. So you just have to be really cognizant of your what you're doing.
>> Right. Right. Now she was and now that was in 2017. How old was she in 2017?
Was she 15 at that time?
>> 15.
>> Yeah. 15 years old. So she's going through that at 15 and having the anxiety trying to get through school.
And now she never got in trouble with the law back then. She's never been arrested or anything like that if you don't mind asking that.
>> No, no, no, no, >> never, never.
>> And she got her license in how in Cleveland? Well, in Ohio, she was 17.
She had her license.
She just said that she wasn't in in trouble with the law ever, ever. But we just went over all the times that a police officer would come to the house and talk to them about her behavior at school.
So, in my opinion, that's in trouble with the law. Maybe they didn't do anything to her. Maybe that's what she means. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. But she wasn't like this stellar person even at a young age.
>> You can get your license at 16 out there or is it even younger?
>> I think it's 15 and a half. You can get your temps.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> So, you got to go to driving school and things like that. Did she go to driving school and stuff like that?
>> Mhm.
>> Wow. Good for her. So, she was a go-getter.
>> Oh, yeah. She's a mover and a shaker.
>> A mover and shaker.
>> Yeah.
>> I like that. I like that. Now, uh, now, you know, within the with with with the, you know, the, um, the bench trial, it didn't seem like really the defense raised any any, you know, they didn't really raise the concerns of pots. I mean, was there any reason for that? I mean, is it just, I mean, how did you feel? I mean, how did you feel about the, you know, her defense?
>> So, my husband and I were not in the trial. Okay. Um, I didn't get to see what he I'm going to cry again. I'm sorry.
>> That's all right. Take your time. Take your time.
>> I didn't get to see what he what he presented, what he didn't present. Okay.
Until it was like too late, right? So after >> you guys you were witnesses is that the reason why there was >> and then um my husband was having health issues and like a giant mess over the whole thing. So he couldn't sit in there to like handle his health and he just >> listen closely as she's saying that Steve was having health issues and he just couldn't be in there because he's sitting next to her while this is going on.
>> Right. He was in there some some days.
Right. But um so at the at the end of the trial >> and he was there some days it was four days.
>> Take a time.
>> Oh okay. So hold on a second. Take your time. Take your time. Take your time. No pressure.
>> There on purpose. He didn't want me hearing what he was saying.
>> There was there was back and forth with with that one, okay? Because there was a little controversy with with my husband because at one point he told me that he might be a witness and on the other side he might not. Like he was kind of back and forth with Steve being a witness or not. Okay. So, and he also has anxiety and couldn't handle a lot of the stuff and we have severe PTSD. So, there was some weird stuff was going on with keeping him in or out of the courtroom.
It was weird. Okay.
>> Did Where was dad?
>> Um, dad had to stay home today. Why?
>> Because he's he can't he can't handle the stress or he just needs to stay home.
>> Is he okay?
>> He's okay. He's 100% okay. He just doesn't want to cause problems for you because of um his lack of maybe controlling saying something you shouldn't say.
>> And who was all there? Who was all here there today?
>> Um let's see. Oh, beside that too, you know, he does obviously daddy loves you.
He just wants to make sure you're in the best position. That's it. It was really hard to sit in the lobby with Tyler yesterday. It was really hard.
>> Who?
>> Tyler.
>> Who the [ __ ] is Tyler?
>> Tyler? Uh, >> he was there yesterday.
>> Wasn't he the one who testified about Dave on 360?
>> No, that was Tyler.
>> Okay.
>> The girl >> I didn't find out until after the trial that he didn't that Jim, her lawyer, didn't turn in her medical diagnosis. I I don't know why.
>> So, let me back up a little bit, right?
Let me just back up. Uh, because Kevy Kev took us right to the trial. I just want to go a step before that. So, she gets arrested. She hangs out with the family, right? Um, did she ever tell the family that this could have been a medical episode prior to her um getting arrested? Did she ever like mention that to them? Were they aware of that or was that >> I don't know what the conversations were with them. I don't know.
>> So, my next question would be, right, and that's fine. You don't have to answer that, right? But, well, you did answer it. I'm sorry, but you know what I mean. Um, I just want to I just want to say this. Um, how did it how did she get trained as an adult? How does that juvenile hearing happen? Is there a transfer hearing where they bring Because in Massachusetts, I just want to let me land the question, right? In Massachusetts, when you have a transfer hearing, they kind of bring in the doctors because under 25 years old, your brain's not developed, right? So, they bring in the doctors, they have evaluations, and they see if someone can be rehabilitated. Now, the reason why I asked you all the questions about school being arrested, it seems like she would be a client for rehabilitation, right?
She like she wasn't getting arrested, going to juvenile detention and doing all these crazy things, right? And that's what they that's what they look into in Massachusetts. Now, when I looked at the Ohio law, >> they said that it's this mandatory clause. They need all they need is probable cause and she gets tried as an adult. Now, if you could, can you take us through that hearing and how did that hearing happen? The juvenile hearing to get bound over to an adult.
>> So, that's interesting, too. So she had her bindover hearing and during the hearing the judge had determined that there wasn't enough evidence for the aggravated part like right which is obviously great right so the premeditation part was removed because they couldn't prove that part >> because there was none so that's good and then the interesting part was um the I want to touch base a little bit on the corner report change I don't know if you knew that part or not did you read anything did you see >> say that again say that again >> corner report change >> I heard that gohead >> go ahead if you don't mind sharing it ahead if you don't mind >> so during the bind over hearing >> after the bind over. It went from accidental to >> I know that's what I'm Yeah. Sorry.
>> That's all right. That's all right. It's fine. I get it. I get it.
>> He just can't shut up.
>> And she's so fed up with him. She's like, "This is my interview."
>> Meanwhile, Mr. Hot Wheels is sitting to the side ready to jump in.
>> Like, just put them both on the damn camera at this point. She's like, "I know. I know. I'm getting to that."
>> She's very patient, I have to say. And he cannot keep his mouth shut. That's why he doesn't get to talk to McKenzie much.
>> And he's a teacher.
>> That's why we don't have a lot of calls.
>> Yeah. But he's a teacher. So how does he deal with kids who are, you know, >> I don't know.
>> He was an art teacher. So maybe they let extra slide with the the art teacher. Who knows?
>> During the bind over hearing, um the corner the what's he called? what's he called? The corner report.
>> The medical examin medical examiner.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, he was on the on the stand and um he was talking about how he examined everything and they determined that it was an accident. Okay. So, that's how it was on the corner report change. And then the prosecution was asked him was like, "Well, you don't you didn't like look at anything, right? You're just using your medical expertise. You didn't see all the evidence or anything." And he was like, "No, that's not everything." And we determined it was an accident. Okay. So, then after it got bound over to the adult court, >> can I can I just stop you? Can I just stop you right there? But what like when you were going through that hearing, did you did anybody explain like did a lawyer like what lawyer did she have at in at juvenile court? What lawyer did she have? Wasn't a public uh defender?
>> No. So that's where that's where I was going. So his name is Jim and he wasn't a public defender. Um he had said that the when you're in the juvenile facility the um pro what was it called? The the burden of pro the burden of proof is so low. It's so low that um and then he was like do you understand what murder is?
Like that means that's not this. Like do you understand that means intent? Like the but but like forget that. So he was so on board with it not being that because there's no intent, right? And and the burden of proof is so low >> um that they bind over everybody.
>> Yeah. Because all they need is they just they could just try to you know make like the intent like that she drove like she sped up and whatever happened after that. If it's murder then that's what it was. If it's they got hurt that's what it was. You know it's pretty wild. Yeah.
>> Appeal. I didn't I didn't know that you could appeal that decision. Right. And that's why I was actually appealing. It was because do you understand like we could but the burden of proof is so low.
>> So you could you could appeal now you could appeal the juvenile decision.
>> I guess that's what he Yeah. But he was like he kind of talked us out of It talked you out of it. Now, but they didn't have no doctors on there that interviewed her that stepped up on her behalf and a juvenile because, you know, at the end of the day, you would think that they would bring some, you know, people in there therapist because she did hit a wall and and and RIP Domin Damian, but she was in the car. And if you don't know any better from the outside in, and I know this for a fact, you would think that she was suic.
And I know it's not the only time that he was going to say it, but that feels so disrespectful. And if you're talking, you're on mute.
>> I wasn't talking.
>> Okay.
>> I was talking.
Because what I said was it was the name, wasn't it?
>> Like I'm sorry. It's one thing like to say Christine or Christina, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But Davon Damian and that is not his Massachusetts accent at throwing that [ __ ] off.
But in his defense, I get Craig and Greg confused all the time.
>> Okay.
>> So, it can happen. But I usually don't talk about a deceased Craig and Greg. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. I'm going to know who I'm talking about.
>> I'd be very careful. But, um, yeah. So, I'm being nitpicky, y'all.
>> Title, right? So why wouldn't they bring the therapist in to kind of get down to why therapist? Right. So they don't do that. They don't do that. Did >> No, he had one.
>> Okay. And what happened?
>> He never called her.
>> Who the at the at the transfer hearing, the bind over hearing, he never called her.
>> Why? And why is that? Did he ever give you an answer to that?
>> I don't know.
>> And what was her what what was her um her take so to speak?
>> She had so much evidence, so much statistical research showing that this is not suicide and this is not what it looks like when people commit suicide, especially a girl her age. Like there's no way.
>> What was her What was her conclusion though? like her mindset cuz she did go into the wall. She's saying it was just an accident or she saying that maybe something else happened. Like what was her take? She talked to um McKenzie.
>> Oh yeah. Well, yeah.
>> And what was her what was her like analysis?
>> Not suicidal. It was not murder, not suicidal. It was it was an accident.
>> Well, the crime, but what did she say if if you could what did she say about Mackenzie? Like her mindset of how she was as a teenager? Like what did you know because everybody on the internet I don't believe what the internet says, but everybody says the most wildest things, right? And I me personally, I don't feel comfortable piling on a young girl. I just don't feel comfortable doing that. Um, but I'm trying to understand what the therapist they had.
She must have had a take, you know, analysis on her like what you know what type, you know, she just said what it wasn't, right?
>> But a therapist said that a therapist said what it wasn't like she wouldn't say what like so my point is was that her job to see if it was an accident or was it her job to kind of see the mindset of >> um talk about the statistics of of the suicide or like if somebody murders like she's a behavioral health specialist >> and she talked to and she talked to Mackenzie.
>> No, no, she talked to Mackenzie after.
Okay. Not during. So, she was just there solely to talk about what you a typical suicide murder accident like looks like kind of thing. But that's what she >> Yeah. See that? Yeah. And that's that's the issue, right? Because if she's just speaking on the the the case itself, what suicide looks like, then it's like in the hypothetical like that's not what it is. But my point is there was never a therapist that actually got on the stand and talked about what type of person Mackenzie was.
>> So yes, but let me go back to that one.
The other behavioral health specialist has also known Mackenzie her whole life, like her whole life. So she kind of had an insight on who she was to. There was also one who was there, her counselor, and said that she's never seen Mackenzie to be suicidal. Doesn't know her to be suicidal or anything like that. And she's talked to Mackenzie her whole high school life.
>> Okay, so we talked about this one already is when Steve had to call 911 because um she was threatening suicide and this is when she was at the age of 15. So, she was in fact >> um suicidal at one point or some type of mental um >> breakdown. And then um >> right here is when she was in the hospital. Steve says Mrs. Sharilla stated to the deputy that they had to keep her in the hospital because she already tried to kill herself and she killed those two boys and they can't allow her to leave the hospital because she is suicidal >> and that didn't get that wasn't admissible in court. I guess >> I'm not sure if it was or not. Um, but it's more to >> Oh, I understand. You're debunking what Natalie's >> the mother should know that. I mean, she was there for this.
>> That Well, you know what? Maybe not.
Maybe Steve said it in his own gibberish language that she can't understand, >> right?
>> So, >> cuz he probably has one too, >> right? You know, to keep her out of certain information, too. So regardless, this is two police in that house, you know.
>> I know.
>> Exactly. Two different >> two police reports from several years, you know.
>> So, there was an issue there.
>> One from before and then one right after the accident while she's still in the uh >> Right. Cuz she wanted to leave and they told her she could not >> because she was the harm to herself.
Mhm. Hey, little So what's the criteria? And I understand like the intent is so easy. The intent of probable cause, but what's the criteria if you know and did you get educated at that point? What's the criteria of the juvenile to be tried as a juvenile cuz under 25 years old, her brain ain't developed? You know, should she get some type of treatment?
>> You know, so they you don't know. And this and this lawyer didn't tell you none of this stuff.
>> No, he just kept telling us that the burden of proof was so low. That's all he kept saying.
>> So is it fair to say is your take today that they kind of fed you to the adult system? and they didn't put up a fight in that transfer hearing because you only got one shot at that transfer hearing.
>> I feel that I do feel that way because I feel like we should have appealed it. I feel like we and this is why I'm going to cry again because I feel like so many opportunities were missed to show that this was not intentional and and we just miss it. Like we miss it by listening to legal counsel, which that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to rely on your legal counsel for to do stuff, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So now she gets by So now before she went to So I want to get to the jails that she went to. So in 2022, she was being held in a DY, like a youth service, right? And when did she and so as soon as when did she get transferred to adult prison? Was it when she got sentenced or was it right when they binded her over?
>> It was when they bound Gosh, I haven't thought about that part in a long time.
So when she got bound over, it was relatively after a little after.
>> So she went to like the count she went to the county jail.
>> Yeah, she was there for a couple weeks.
>> So she went to the juvenile >> during the trial.
>> So was she in the was she in juvenile basically up until the trial?
>> That's right. So they kept her in juvenile and then they and then they so she went from a juvenile facility where now what was that like that juvenile facility like where would they treat her better? Would she be treated like a resident versus an inmate? Like was her mind was she a little bit more laid-back? Like what was the difference between if you could tell us the difference between the juvenile facility through your lens to where she's at now?
>> The juvenile facility is um where she's at now is is is way better in my opinion. I love the staff at the juvenile facility. They're so nice and they love those kids and I love them and I'm still staying in contact with them there.
>> So, so you're saying the juvenile facility was good verse the state prison.
>> Well, there's three there's facility county >> and the prison.
>> Okay.
>> So, which So, in the juvenile facility, what was her mind state like in that juvenile facility, >> Mackenzie?
>> That the truth will set her free.
>> Okay. And then so then she >> then she goes into the county, she goes to a adult jail. What was that like? Did she ever like express like the change up from going to being a bunch being around kids to adults? Like did she >> scary that was a very scary situation for her and and me because you know you're in there with um with scary people, right? And some some not, some are. And that was just a scary situation all the way around. A lot of unknown, you know, treing unknown waters. We have no idea what the staff is like. And you you hear all these horror stories and you see these movies about what people have to endure when they're in that situation. And she's like an 18-year-old tiny little girl who got into a car accident and we're just holding on for like dear life through that situation.
It was very, very scary.
>> And then she gets sentenced, right? And she ends up in a state prison. What, if you could describe what that prison's like over there right now and the treatment over there? Cuz some people are saying it's a cakewalk and some people saying it's tough. What's your through your lens, what's it like in there?
>> Um, I don't know. There are no I know that there's no good days for anybody in there. It's very hard, you know, and you always have to, you know, walk around with eyes in the back of your head and everything, but I don't know why they call it a >> We went over this like two days ago, I think, or a couple days ago.
>> I have seen other than Cat and the um ex-girlfriend that looks like Dave. I've seen another girl that I follow on Tik Tok, which is like she's really big into Swifty content, but she's gone to the same prison three times and she was like, "That place is so [ __ ] cush."
>> Yeah, we've seen it. It's like there's no good days. Oh, please. They have a once a year they have yard day where they rent a bunch of carnival like and like food things and food trucks and stands and like what >> and >> you know who will never have a good day in there >> a truly good day again in their lives?
>> Dom and Davon.
>> Yeah. or their mothers or their fathers or their siblings, >> right? Because anytime a big moment in their life happens that they should be happy and they will be to an extent.
>> Yeah.
>> But it's always painful because they're not there. Those boys are not there.
This lady >> Oh, it's a very boutiquey prison. It is very nice, very clean.
Better than our public schools down here in Louisiana.
>> Exactly.
>> A cup, what do they call it? A cupcake camp.
>> No, a cake. A cakewalk.
>> A cupcake camp.
>> A cupcake camp.
>> It's just a cupcake camp where she's at.
>> Girl Scout walk >> because they do have there are programs that you can do. And it does sound nice that you have access to all of those things, right? Um, so it could always be worse. I always tell her in everything that she's ever gone through, things can always be worse. no matter what you're going through, things could always be worse. So, um, >> has she, uh, has she been participating in in any programs in there for re, you know, rehabilitation?
>> When she can, you know, there's a lot of women in there, so it's hard. There's a weight list on a little of those things.
So, when she can, she does, which is good. Yeah.
>> I'm willing to bet she hasn't done anything.
>> That's what I was wondering. And I was wondering that information.
>> I've asked for it. I'm waiting.
>> Okay.
>> I should have this week. I don't know if they'll give me that because it's like education type stuff, >> but not not necessarily. Sometimes just their programs and certificates like we can get proof of that because I know they again it's a different state. They had gotten it on Gypsy Rose.
>> Lonnie, let me tell you something. I used to work at Arit, but um my husband graduated from there. But let me tell you this. Um, the prison she's in is pretty sweet compared to Eric.
>> No. And she's not This is like a a mid like minimum. It's not low minimum security. Um, but it's not the max security that they would send her to if like she were an actual like problem.
Um, because there is one like this is where she's at is where they send the majority of women to. And even the one woman that was on death row in Ohio is at this prison because she's not like they even lowered her sentence to life.
>> Oh wow.
>> Not even on death row anymore. Yeah. But like I guess you know the real actual problems would get moved to a maximum security. But she would just have to show them that she's an issue.
>> Mhm.
>> To get moved there. Yeah. Let me let me let me uh >> shake somebody probably.
>> Yeah, I don't think she'll ever do that.
No, I don't think so.
>> Bounce a little bit back again. So, you're getting a lot of push back from the internet, right? And we know that Mackenzie was active on the internet and she and from my lens, from my perspective, I think that she thought that she was going to come out with the story and people would see it her way and it would be kind of like a free Mackenzie type thing, right? Which I guess, you know, there is a lot of people who say free Mckenzie, too. Don't get it twisted. Yeah.
>> But but do you understand why people are mad? Because when she was in the hospital, you guys were talking in some type of language. Now, where did she learn that? Did she learn that from you?
Because that seems like something from our era, >> right?
>> It is. So, it's it's like embred in my family. We all we all speak it like all of us, all of our lives. And um yeah, so that came from it's called Carne Talk.
And um we just I don't know. It's just a part of who we are. Now, when she said something like blame it, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, because I'm sure you heard this question a thousand times, but when she says something like, "Blame it on the pots, blame it on my seizures," did she say that? Was that something that she said, or did they misdrew it?
>> No. So, the prosecutor, I guess, in one of those documentaries, he says that um what they're speaking right now is something like gibberish. And then what he says is she says something like, "Can you tell him I just had a seizure? Let's just tell him I had a seizure." That's not what she says.
>> Okay. That's not what she said.
>> Why was you guys Why were you guys talking like that to begin with, though?
Like is that something like why did you guys revert to that?
>> Because it's just a thing because she was probably scared and didn't know what you can and can't say, right? So she always tell don't talk, you know, don't talk to the police without a lawyer or whatever and she was probably scared and wanted to make sure it's okay for her to talk, which is that's okay. That's in my opinion that's responsible. You can ask me if you can talk that's okay, right?
>> Because you know, you always say like don't talk without a lawyer, right?
>> She said carney talk like like a right.
Is that what you mean? Like a carnival?
Yeah. Well, we have a carnival around our way in Boston. It's been around for years. It's called Fiesta Show. The bumper cause is still the bumper cause from 1975, but that's another story. I think we need to update the accountable.
But yes, the shows who's going to the I'm still going though. I don't care if it falls apart. I'll still I'll still be there.
>> Right. But um yeah. Uh so but you can understand why push back on. Yeah, I totally understand.
>> Say whatever you want.
>> But that's not what she says. Okay. What she said was and I'm going to tell you, okay, because the word seizure, okay, in carne talk is loaded with Z's. It's very hard to say in seizure, right? So >> can you can you say it to us right now?
>> See, seizure. CZ Z seizure. There's too many Z's in there.
>> So, if you don't mind saying blame it on the seizure. Go ahead and say it in that language.
>> I'm afraid to do that because what if they edit and snip a sound bite and plug it into other things? I don't trust that's fair. That's fair.
>> I just don't want them to do that to her and me.
>> No, I get to that sentence. There's no word. There's that word is not in that sentence.
>> Can I say something to her?
>> Yes.
Yeah. Like can I just like like take my whole license?
Yeah. Like can I just like like take my whole license?
>> So if it was an accident which what which she said sounds like the ceser what whatever >> zzer. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um, so if if it was an accident, you're in the hospital, this is a couple days after, and you know in your heart it's an accident. Um, nothing had really been put out that they were coming to get her. You know, why did she think I mean, they were coming actually they were coming to return her her phone and her things to her.
Why did she think, "Can I just give up my license for 10 years?" Like, what made her think that she would have to give anything up if it was a true accident?
>> Right? Why did she think there needed to be consequences for an accident?
>> Right?
>> Because growing up, don't we get told and don't we tell our children it's okay, accidents happen, >> right?
>> And they don't have a repercussion, >> right?
>> And that's why we have car insurance.
Like those are the things that I remember getting told, >> right? And and and you know, yeah, two people lost their lives, but if it was truly like a medical condition or it was >> a true accident, there would be no repercussions.
>> What made her think that they were coming to punish her, >> right?
>> You know, cuz she would already live with that for the rest of her life, you know, >> right? the the guilt would be enough, you know, even if it was a true accident, knowing that you it was at your hands >> no matter what, the guilt would be enough for me. Even if it was a true accident, I got in a car accident one time and the other vehicle that hit me flipped and the immediate words out of my mouth was, "Oh my god, is he dead?"
>> But that was >> because I I would have held that for the rest of my life, right? And he was the one who hit me. I just don't understand why she immediately thought my license punish her, right? Yep.
>> And did she really think, oh, taking your license for 10 years if it was not an accident is enough? Right.
>> Maybe maybe she being 17, freshly 18.
Um, felt like if she said that that it would have kept them from continuing the investigation and actually finding her guilty of murder.
We'll never know. McKenzie will never tell us.
>> No. No.
>> So, here she is now, right? You're getting all this push back. She's talking. Now, when you guys were talking about Kip Kadashi and all these different things. I mean, was this a way a mechanism? Because the way I took some I didn't hear all the phone calls. Let's be clear, ladies and gentlemen. I know there's a lot of phone calls. People are just nitpicking every single one. But the one that I heard about one from the UK or something like that, you were telling her basically you were telling her this is everywhere now. And I feel like, you know, you basically were trying to calm her down a little bit and it and then people took it like you guys were laughing. I didn't really see it that way. My my opinion, I didn't see it that way. I seen like, you know, you were saying that it's out there. The awareness is out there. She still stood on her square and said, "Hey, I'll tell the truth. You know, I don't care. I got nothing to hide." And they just took that all wrong. But like I said, that is my opinion. People take it the way they they they take it. But do you feel that she has remorse like and and like what was that like during that whole process?
I heard you speak about it in trial. um you know when that whole situation happened like what was that like her going through and then her handling like like she got broken like what was that like?
>> So I wanted to touch base first of all on the on the phone call. Okay.
>> I feel so bad that people think I'm laughing. I'm probably going to cry again so forgive me.
>> Okay. I got to tell you one more thing.
>> What?
>> It was published in England.
>> What?
>> Yes.
>> In world news.
I think the Daily Mail just publishes it in all the publications, but yeah, the UK.
>> It's on the Daily Mail.
>> In UK, >> maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out herself.
>> That's what I'm saying. I'm hoping. I'm hoping. We're getting there. I was going to do this anyway, so this is great.
>> And they could just reach out to us.
>> Mhm. Craziness, baby girl.
>> I'm gonna try not to, though. I wasn't laughing.
>> I wasn't laughing at the situation or the accident. Like she just covered up everywhere.
>> Mhm.
>> She like coughed laughed just now saying I wasn't laughing.
>> Yeah. I I was not laughing but she was laughing.
>> And I get it. She wasn't laughing at >> the death >> the victims. Right. No, she was laughing at the fact that it's gone nationwide and it's gained so much notoriety.
>> Mhm.
Which is so funny.
No, what's weird is that first she didn't want to tell McKenzie cuz Mackenzie was like, "Holy [ __ ] like this is going all over. Why is it going?" Like Mackenzie didn't seem to like that it was going all over. Right.
>> Mhm.
>> So then she's like, "Tell you one more thing."
>> I think she wanted it to.
>> I don't think at first she did and then as it became more infamous >> Mhm.
>> Yes. and she's loving it now, right?
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> Um, but I don't think she necessarily wanted, and this is just my opinion, you know, I don't think she necessarily wanted it to in the moment. Um, I think she wanted it to just be said and done and her go home, you know?
>> Oh, pumpkin.
O, every time she says a pumpkin drives me freaking nuts.
>> Yes, she liked it. until they called her a murderer.
>> Mhm.
>> Nothing at all.
>> And after the car accident, >> we had gone through so much and the other families too obviously, but we had gone through so many like, oh my god, like what is happening and so many scary scary dark moments in time, right? And all those times like there were so many conversations before those phone calls that nobody knows happened. Crying crying um looking at pictures of his phone, listening to his music, going through memories. so many phone calls of of all of that of us crying together and talking about that that nobody nobody gets to know. So all people hear are the phone calls where she's in the trial which is a terrifying >> okay situation her saying that they had private phone calls while she was in juvie.
>> She's saying something or she thinks that they're they won't ever be released but >> she said there was phone calls of us crying that no one gets to know. Mhm.
>> But I also wonder if like the lawyer has said yes, the ones when she was in county are able to be obtained. The one when she was in juvie aren't. So maybe that's why she's saying no one gets to know.
>> But Juvie released her records.
>> So it it's just odd to me that they wouldn't release the phone calls. And we see that you can't believe everything you hear. Oh, look how long it took to get Sarah's calls because they kept getting told no, no, no.
>> Sarah Boon drives me nuts.
>> I know. I haven't even listened to her calls. I'm going to be honest.
>> I can't.
>> Okay. So, when that phone call happened, >> I agree.
>> Right. So, we're literally in survival mode during that time and we can't believe that any of this is even happening and we're really just trying to survive second to second. Okay. But we had had so many conversations before those phone calls where we're like, we're um it's okay. We're going to be okay. We're going to get like wrongful conviction people, you know, innocence and things and and Mackenzie, you know, she's 17 years old, right? So the first person she thought of was Kim Kardashian because >> okay, she was not 17 years old and people keep saying this and she's the mother's even saying it.
>> She was she turned 18 two days after the accident. She turned 18 in the [ __ ] hospital. Quit telling me she was 17 while in custody. She wasn't.
>> She was two days from being 18. So don't say she was 17 so that people think, "Oh, she was in a new 17."
>> Yeah. No, she was 17.
>> That's how you get like all this, you know.
>> She was 17 when the car crash happened.
Right. Right.
>> It's hard not to say accident. Um, >> she was 17 when that happened, but she was 18 in the hospital recovering from the crash. She wasn't 17 when this [ __ ] was happening. But she's trying to paint it as that, as if she's a minor.
>> She wasn't anymore. And they tried that [ __ ] as an adult.
>> Angeliz, in my personal opinion, >> I think >> he was trying to leave her. Yes. And I think he didn't know how. I think it was a situation um that he may not have known how to deal with because even though he was, you know, three years older um maybe had more experience in life than her, whatever the case was, I don't think that he knew how to handle someone like her.
>> I think the situation was bigger than he even at 20 was prepared for, right? Mhm.
>> And leaving her, we we saw isn't easy.
>> And I mentioned this the other night.
How do you go to your mom or or your parents or whatever and say, "I need help with this, >> especially as a male."
>> Mhm.
>> To say, >> now that I can't speak for, but as a female, it was hard.
>> It's hard.
>> Mhm. So, as a male, I'm going to say it's even harder to have to go and say, "I got this crazy [ __ ] and I don't know what to do >> and I am scared of what she might do."
>> Right.
>> So, that's what I think. I think he was trying. I don't think >> And I think she sensed it. I don't think they were like in like >> I think she sensed it.
>> Yeah. You know, >> I don't think he did it right there in the car like I was there. But you could tell, you know, >> the standoffish the >> you know and I think she probably started realizing that or seeing it.
>> I mean, she talks about how she woke up at 4:00 and Dom wasn't there.
>> Yeah. On that epiphany phone call and I think I I think I know what happened >> cuz he wasn't there. Okay, maybe he got up and went to the bathroom or maybe he went and used the phone. Doesn't mean he wrecked your car while you were driving, >> right? It still made no sense.
>> No, but I >> was like grasping.
>> I think she just started sensing that the end was near >> for their relationship. That mean >> I think so too. I think so.
>> That's who gets that's who helps people.
That's who raises awareness, right? So, by the time that phone call um happened where somebody had told me that it reached I don't know I think it was um some publication in the overseas. I you have to celebrate the wins. You have to celebrate the wins otherwise you're going to get lost in the dark. So when we got that news, I was like, "Oh my god, it's overseas. Maybe it'll get to her first before so we don't have to because I don't even know how I wouldn't even know how to like reach anybody like that to help." So in that moment, I was a little bit thankful, shocked. I can't believe this is happening that it might get to her before we even figured out how. That's all. It didn't mean disrespect to the families or anything.
I would never be disrespectful to the families.
>> Since I want to say, let me ask you this. What was what was dawn? The reason why they mentioned Kim Kardashian is because Kim Kardashian does help people who she believes are wrongly convicted.
It wasn't just maybe Kim Kardashian will help me because my name's in the news.
Uh it's because Kim has I mean aren't they trying to help Scott Peterson right now? Like >> um Kim Kardashian had also spoke to Gypsy Rose, >> right? She did after Gypsy got out and now Kim don't even do want nothing to do with her. And it's my understanding that Kim put out a statement like, "No, I'm not helping Mackenzie."
>> Yeah, she has declined to help Mckenzie.
Um, she probably regrets helping Gypsy after Gypsy has come out and done the things she's done, like showed her, you know, showed her ass, if you will, >> right? But Kim told her post and ghost.
That's the last thing that Gypsy can do.
>> Mhm.
We all heard her disrespect the family, bitching about driving by their house.
Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. The mom.
>> Oh, it hurts your heart to drive by their house every day.
>> Um, you know what hurts their heart?
>> Not having their kids here.
>> Every freaking holiday. Every morning when they wake up and every night when they go to bed. It's just >> y, >> you know, some things were said and they remind you every time before you get on the phone. These calls are not private >> and you can't take those words back, [ __ ] cuz they're out there and so many people have >> and you know, I'm huge on the Aaron Hernandez calls.
>> I just love Aaron Hernandez. Um, he was always very smart.
He never said anything that would get him in trouble. Maybe with Shay or whatever, you know, when he was on the phone with the Pouncy Brothers, what But I'm talking about like legally >> and like what like against his victims or anything like that, >> right? No, it was never um >> never disrespectful like that.
>> No, he just played it cool and and you know, I just don't understand like I don't know.
I guess if you get if you let your child do whatever they want their whole lives.
If you don't raise them, the court system will. I saw that the other day and that like really that's sticking with me. If you don't raise your kid, the court system will, >> right? And a responsible parent wouldn't want that, right? Mm- >> Um, but I will say at McKenzie's ripe old age of 17, he's responsible, right? Because there's only so much that can be blamed on parenting and then the rest does fall on Mckenzia herself, right? Parents can only control so much. It's, and I look at it, I'm not comparing the two when I say this, but teen pregnancy, >> you can raise your kids to know that it's not easy and that they should wait until they're older to get pregnant. If they're going to do a grown-up activities, be safe about them.
But they're still going to make certain choices that don't fall back on the parent, right?
Mhm.
>> But they knew that she was an erratic driver. She was doing drugs >> and a car they paid for >> other things. Yeah. Right. There were things that they knew about >> and their name. I can't imagine what their insurance is like now.
>> My god.
And they only have Never mind. I'm not going to spill the beans. But >> yeah. So I um >> I'm not saying that they're not responsible, but they're not >> fully responsible, right? Like they shouldn't be imprisoned as well for this.
>> So my son turned 18 in October >> and he graduated last week or this week.
It's been a really long week. Um >> I know last week. I don't even freaking know what day it is, y'all. Yeah, last week.
>> Last week.
>> So even though he was 18, he still lived with us. We still paid for I mean he still lives with us. We still paid for everything. And you know I would get on his behind and my husband would say >> leave him alone. He's 18. And I'm like hello. This is our last few months to even though we've done it his whole life. This is like our last chance >> to instill that responsibility in him.
>> Yes. Because when he leaves there's nothing we can do.
>> Right. Right. So, I'm going to take these last months while he's still living in my house and I'm paying his bills and I'm going to get on his ass.
>> I get that. And and I'm not saying that her parents were perfect by any means.
There was so much they could have done.
She was in high school living with her boyfriend that's two almost three years older than her.
>> Mhm.
>> Hell to the no. I would not have gotten away with that.
>> Oh, >> no. M.
>> No.
Mm- No.
>> So, you know, I'm not saying that they were perfect. I'm not perfect, but I like to think I'm doing a better job than the Sharillas.
>> Lonnie, this freaking insurance in Louisiana between homeowners, flood insurance, and car insurance is freaking killing me.
>> Flood, too.
>> I don't have to, but >> you have to Louisiana.
>> No, I get it. And yeah, just my wind was ridiculous one year. like >> Mhm.
>> wind and hail or some extra [ __ ] tack on that. I had car. Yeah. Louisiana insurance is >> we've lived we built this house eight or eight and a half years ago and I pulled up all my old homeowners bills, my insurance.
>> Um it has more than doubled in eight years.
>> Oh, I believe that. Especially after those two hurricanes that we got back to back. Well, I got my area got hit more, I believe, back to back in 2020.
>> I had just bought a house.
Just bought a house. Had to get my roof replaced.
>> Yeah, it is not cheap to live in Louisiana.
>> It's killing us.
>> I live where all our houses are up on peers.
I live very north of where um I live in a nice not not in a nice area in a good area that should not get hit by storms and I am still paying >> Oh yeah. I mean, [ __ ] even on our electric bill, we're still paying for storm recovery from from storm before before we even had our own electric bill.
>> And I am not in a flood zone, but when I tell you my freaking flood insurance is so high, every year it goes up.
>> Mhm.
>> I'm north of I12, Angel. I I'll say that.
>> I am not. I am north of I12 now.
>> I am south the ITN.
>> Um and our insurance and our taxes. Oh my god. Just don't move to Louisiana. If you if you're thinking about it, don't do it.
>> Especially if you have kids, we're the lowest.
>> Yeah. Like our school. Like did you hear us the other night like clapping to see how many freaking syllables was in the word? Don't move me.
>> Oh, we still got it wrong. blame that show in Louisiana public schools.
>> Yeah, public schools. I mean, the prisons are better than our public schools. So, >> Oh, speaking of us clapping, she never actually tells us what she did say.
>> No, she doesn't. She She beats around the bush.
>> Is too too many Z's, but she never tells us what she actually said when she said she was going to. I'll be damned. She I just remembered that.
>> Yeah. So, I remember being a kid and my friends used to talk pig Latin.
>> See, we didn't.
>> And I'm like, that's stupid. Why would I waste my time trying to learn what y'all saying? Just say whatever y'all want. I don't care. My grandparents spoke French in front of me.
>> Mine, too. Mine spoke in French >> all the time. So, I >> only the bad words.
>> Yeah.
>> They did it when they didn't want us knowing what they were talking about us like >> Mhm.
or they were talking about, you know, somebody else in the family and they didn't want you to know because you would say, you know, what my grandma said.
>> Oh, yeah. For sure.
>> I missed that.
>> Me, too. Cuz nobody does.
>> Oh my god. You can't do this to me.
>> Uhuh.
>> I mean I mean I'm just, you know, I think I think it's only right, you know, that you know, you're talking about how, you know, you wasn't laughing. So, why don't you tell us about Dom and how you feel feel about Dom? This is your chance. If, you know, take your time if if you want. You know, >> I can't I can't talk about them.
>> Okay, that's fine.
>> I'm in so much pain. I feel so bad for them.
>> And that's understandable. That's unable.
>> Go ahead, Kev. Kev, take it away.
>> You know, I mean, you know, when you when you you know, when you lay down that that phone call and and and how how your reaction was, I can understand that. I mean, it was just, you know, you know, you know, it's like screaming from the rooftops and and somebody finally heard it, you know, and I get that. I mean, I I could see, you know, your your your emotion of of, you know, of, you know, the it's getting out there, McKenzie. PE other people are listening.
Other people are chiming in. Um, and I, you know, I wouldn't say that that would be, you know, I wouldn't say that that that would be a negative reaction. The other thing too that people don't understand is like grief and trauma and we have such bad PTSD. It's like this, right? So, there were moments when we were mad.
>> I'm I don't know if anybody else watched AG Tactical react to this. And I only heard bits and pieces of it, but he said, "What is this [ __ ] doing other than wiping skin cuz she ain't wiping no tears. She turned that [ __ ] right off and she has PTSD. How do you think the victim's families feel? You don't think that Dom and Davon's family has PTSD because of your daughter's actions, but you have PTSD. Please tell us tell us how you have PTSD.
>> You know, she wakes up every morning and she's like, "My daughter's in prison. I got to send her more money."
>> And she can call me.
>> Yeah. She's probably having somebody, you know, munch on her carpet.
>> Cash up. Cash app means $20 here and there like you know she's >> and it's going to get out in the public.
>> But >> but do you know what they wake up?
They're going to wake up for the rest of their lives cuz maybe Mackenzie will come home one day. I don't know. But they wake up every day for the rest of their lives and every freaking Christmas, every Thanksgiving, every every day they're going to wake up and they're like that's it, >> right? Unfortunately, there is the chance that Mackenzie can get out and family one day.
>> Yeah, she'll if she gets out on that first run, on that first try, she's young enough to still have a family. And I don't know how many years they wait.
They make them wait till they can go again for >> so because she was 17 when her crime happened. Even though they tried her as an adult, >> at 15 years she can appear before the parole board, >> right?
>> And then every five after that, the max that they can extend it is another five because of her age at the crime. That has nothing to do with her being tried as an adult, right? So then she'll, you know, it'll be 20.
>> Then she'll have been in for 25 years, but still she's what? She's got 11 left, right?
>> No, she's got less than 10 or right at 10.
>> Right at 10. Okay.
>> I don't know what year it is apparently.
Um, so if I add 10 years to my age, >> maybe maybe write at 11. You're right.
>> 10 11. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> If I had 10 11 years to my age, women are still having children then.
>> Yeah. Mhm.
>> And this idiot stupid enough though.
>> Gypsy did. She found two.
>> Yeah. True.
True. you know, and I bet I bet Ken sleeps with one eye open, so >> Oh, he better.
Um, and you know, we talked earlier and we were like, I'm not, you know, I'm saving this call. But then another one came out.
>> Mhm.
>> After that and she immediately starts talking about writing a book and Natalie's like, "Start writing your book. Start writing your book right now.
What's her book going to be about though? Because she can't include the crimes in it because she can't profit off of that in Ohio, >> right? So, um, and what >> like she could remember what happened like what are you going to talk about, >> right? It she could be she could come out and become an author and have a pen name but never write about her life and >> phone calls. But >> law. Yes.
>> Yes. Yes. That's for the social media aspect of it.
>> So much more to be added and needs to be added to different states. Look at Gypsy Rose.
>> Mhm.
>> It is wild what she >> No one would know that little [ __ ] if she hadn't killed her mom.
>> Mhm.
And kids like love her.
>> Yeah.
>> I saw she was at she went to one of the parades in me for Migra. And I mean like and she was in New Orleans on Bourbon Street. So two different parades and people could not leave her alone. They were so excited. And it was the younger >> target audience.
>> I mean I'd see her I'd want to punch her in her face.
>> Same.
>> Um but it's the younger kids who get so excited. They can they just love her and that's scary, you know.
>> But there I mean there is a lot of people who still don't believe that. um I mean that still believe that she was abused. So there's always going to be people that support one side or the other, right?
>> I mean there's still people that support Wade Wilson.
>> I mean there were people that supported um Charles Nancy.
>> Does Mackenzie want to be famous? Um Mrs. Bean has always wanted to be famous.
That was her plan to be a model and to >> that's what she was trying to do >> an influencer. And so if she were to get the chance to get out let's say in 10 years and like you know all the I'm sure influencing is going to be even different and bigger than >> right we can't even imagine. taking that chance >> going to be like >> and she's doing it >> without Dom's law that Dom's sister is trying it if they are going to work it out and hopefully have things signed and and have it passed and they are working kind of fast on it because she has filed an appeal again. It's >> that appeal's still out there. She still has the chance.
>> Let's be for real. The only reason we don't know if they would have denied her first appeal. It was late >> one day cuz of leap year >> cuz of leap year my ass.
>> How freaking amazing is that?
>> How do you throw leap year in unless it happened in February?
>> I don't know but I think it's great.
>> Stupidest excuse I ever had to appeal the appeal rejection because of that.
Yeah.
>> Right. All right. Let's see what else she's got to say >> about what was happening. And that's okay. Like like I I say to everybody, everybody's allowed to feel how they feel. We are too. We're just like everybody else, right? So we're some of us were mad like when after the car accident happened, we spent every day every day with the families. I tried to get into >> So let's let's stay there for a second right there. Let's let's I think that's something that I mean I haven't heard much of that from you anyway. So when the accident happens and nobody, you know, and and Natalie gets out the excuse me, McKenzie gets out the hospital and things like that is on the mend, everybody's hanging out and everybody's celebrating Dom and trying to get like not over this, but trying to cope with this. Everybody's together.
Everybody's together at that point.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we spent every day together. Like every day. The second we got home from the hospital, she wanted to go to the memorial and stuff. We were there every day leaving flowers.
I'm gonna pull this comment up right here because, you know, okay, like I said, I just want to I just want to I want to talk to the people.
>> My game my my um my take on this whole tragedy, right? RIP Dom and RIP Damian and uh in prayers to um >> that's not his name.
>> McKenzie doing time. My thing is the juvenile mindset. What's the criteria to open up dialogue about what's happening to the kids out there? Um social media, how they how things start interfering with these kids' minds. That's what we're talking about. We also talk about Eddie O'Brien in 1995, a kid that did 30 years that was tried as an adult and should should have he been tried as a juvenile. So everything is all together as one. But this right here is, you know, of course it's a jab as usual cuz that's what you get in live streams. It says sad JFK is allowing allowing her to lie on his platform. How do you feel when people say that you're lying like like and how and and what did the social media onslaught? What does that feel like >> if you could describe it? It's hard because um we're it's just hard because um we're being judged on um like if you knew me like they don't know me. They don't know us. We have not spent time together, right? So, how would you like it if they took and picked your worst moments and compiled into a little segment for you to be judged on? That's not who you are. That's not who you are.
>> But do you think that um McKenzie made a big mistake from trying to go to the internet, declare her name, and it kind of backfired on her?
>> Oh, you mean her Instagram post?
>> Like Well, >> which one? like well she was heavy into the internet or age like you know whatever it is you tell me about >> so much on the internet after the accident and not like >> letting it breathe letting it breathe so to speak like and then it kind of backfight on her >> which what what parts after the accident >> the time the time being after the accident after she got better or being in her hospital bed being on the internet going live you know talking about things just all that time after the accident >> and and then all of a sudden people hear a different version of the story saying that she drove and staked it out and this and that and there's no remorse and you know and now all of a sudden the internet starts turning right like uh was did you did you know she was on the internet like that and how did you feel and how do you feel about her internet use was that always was that an issue with you or did you just let her do whatever she wanted? Well, after the accident, I mean, there are people that care about her and wanted to see how she was doing, right? So, she had posted those videos of herself laying in the bed or whatever for her family and people that care about her. So, I didn't have a problem with that part. Um, >> what about those parts?
>> Yeah, I think is that what you're saying, Jabro? You want to elaborate?
>> No, just like how she just All right.
For instance, how I know when we talked, you told her to go have fun, which is understandable. You don't want to drown yourself in the sorrow and whatever.
>> I've been there. I get that.
>> Oh, that's you. I was talking to you.
Hi. Nice to meet you. So, um, like for instance, the lives when she was getting dressed for Halloween normal and then you know how she did her Tik Tok videos and was still like trying to be a celebrity out there and and I think that's why a lot of people >> they're listen what they were doing what those kids were doing was so sweet and it was turned around so I feel so bad for them okay because what they did was okay so Mackenzie's home from the hospital and she's laying in bed immobilized my remember because she broke everything right including her spine or she got her C1 I'm I can't even believe she can even walk. Right. So, she was laying in bed for >> three months.
>> She broke everything.
>> But she was laying in bed filming herself with one hand wiggling >> immobile for three months and then all of a sudden could walk and party for Halloween. That's crazy.
>> Yeah. Jay Dom's mom's worst moment was filmed and has been shared and shared and shared again.
>> Yep. She probably doesn't even remember >> that moment.
>> No, probably not. And I hope to God she she does not ever watch.
>> I hope she doesn't watch it, but everybody else has.
>> And that's I hope other people don't even have to feel that. Hey, Jen.
>> No, I would never wish that on anybody.
Um, I would I think I listened to the guys um say that this morning when I listened to theirs.
>> Also, I want to tell before I forget, I want to tell everybody to go divine.
>> DaVon's sister has uh um >> I messaged her earlier and I said I would not share her video unless she told me it was okay and I hadn't heard back from her by the time we had gotten online.
Um, she does have a Tik Tok.
She is the sweetest little girl. I say little girl, but she's of age and stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, the things she has sat in her car and cried.
>> Mhm. And she has said that that was the only person her brother was the only person she had steady in her life since she was born >> because they were in foster care and they were adopted.
>> He's been there since day one for her.
>> Jen, you know, I was thinking earlier, not only that, but they should she should have to freaking look at the autopsy photos.
Yeah, she should she should have to recap the whole crime >> once a week or so. I think that's what Carp was saying whenever I listen to them.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And move away from the parents cuz they don't want to see them. Just like they don't want to pass by Dom's house cuz it's heartbreaking or it pisses them off. Let me just say she also if she does get out she shouldn't be able to leave Ohio so that >> right Dom's law >> passes she's stuck with it >> right >> because you get what I'm >> not trying to say >> that's what I would worry about because you know this is going to be at the state level first it things like this never go federalally They leave it up to each state, >> right?
>> Like all the parents moving out of Tennessee now, you know, >> so they can monetize off of their kids on the internet.
>> Unable to walk, unable to do anything the whole time scrolling, looking at his pictures, his music, memories.
>> She says that, and I'm going back to this real quick, and then we can move on because I know we like we've already been live like an hour and a half. um that everything was broken and she laid in bed for months.
So the accident happened July 31st, right?
>> Correct.
>> I'm pretty sure that's the day.
>> Yep.
>> Um so July August, >> you know, >> it wasn't even two months later. It wasn't even two months later and she was at a concert in a wheelchair.
>> Yeah.
So, >> and 3 months is exactly Halloween.
Go figure.
>> Right. So, if you're that hurt and you everything was broken. Everything was broken.
>> Everything was broken.
How were you at a concert two months later >> and at Dom's birthday party?
>> I broke my foot once. I I've actually broken both feet at different times. And I've broken one several times. And um even in two months, I'm still not able to go places like a concert or like a nightclub and stuff.
Not that I do that anymore, but still, you know what I'm saying? Like it's not healed, >> right? just like a broken foot.
>> Okay, so that's what I'm trying to say.
So, how in the hell was everything broken?
>> And when did she get arrested?
>> Um, November something.
>> Okay.
>> It was in November.
>> I had to laugh to myself watching her walk because that leg was not fully healed.
She probably if if she's um well, you know, they used to go get her from the juvenile center and bring her um to therapy and stuff, which she's very lucky they did that because I would think most places don't do that. So, that in itself was >> pretty freaking good, >> right? That's like a little field trip.
>> Mhm.
But yeah, in her when they're putting her in the tank like she's got the weather changes, I still can't walk good on my feet >> because they it it just hurts.
>> Oh, and it's been crappy weather for the last week. You doing okay?
>> I hope Mackenzie feels the same pain.
>> Worse. Because you know what? It gets really cold up there and they don't have heaters in that prison.
>> That's right. Nor do they have that condition >> in this darkness. Right. So, by the time she was able to get up and like kind of start to move around, I would be like, "Honey, it's okay to be sad. It's always okay to be sad. We just can't live there, right? We just can't live there."
So, I um I wanted her to go. Her friend um Rosie was in college and um wanted her to come for the weekend, right? So, I was like, "You need to get up, change of scenery, get off your phone, go be with your friends, and go get out of your head, right? Go get out of your head." So, her friends took a moment for them to go do something. And actually the whole thing what they did was in honor of Dom and DaVon, right? Which was super sweet. So they turned that moment of hanging out together and they brought Dave and D um D and Davon with them too, which was very sweet. So they were all kind of together that weekend >> in a way, which was very sweet.
>> Let me ask you this. I got another comment pulled up here, right? It says she laughed after victim impact statements. Now I don't know who the person is talking about. Is she talking about me?
>> Uh I don't know if she's talking about you or she's talking about McKenzie.
>> Do you do you know anything about that?
Does anybody know anything about that?
Who who is this comment talking about?
>> No. No. So that's not a thing.
>> No. Well, that's on video. You could even see it.
>> Okay. Yeah. So now she's um she's she's in this facility right now >> and uh the what happened with this appeal being denied. Can you speak to that in one day? What what was that all about and how did that happen?
>> Well, they missed it by one day.
>> Right. Right. So we're in the process of that, too. And I have a huge problem with that. And actually, if if um at some point, um I'm going to try to figure out. I don't know anything about the legal world or law world. Like, none of us have ever been in trouble with any kind of law. So, I don't understand how this side of the world works. But I don't understand how a defendant could be penalized for a lawyer, a lawyer's mistake, especially missing a deadline.
Like, how was that the defendant's fault? Like, this whole postconviction, all of her truth, which would prove that it wasn't intentional, is lives and dies in this document that's now they're saying is a day late. I don't think that that's right. But so >> do you think that do you think that McKenzie right now that you see her going through all this right do you think McKenzie has any type of mental issue at all like that now that you see like your personal I know you're her mom's and you got to stick up for her do you think that she should be evaluated you think you think there's a misdiagnosis somewhere >> I think she's maybe well ADHD ADD but nothing more anxiety like all that there's nothing >> she's been she's been in therapy that's what I mean like she's been in therapy like yeah >> right So, >> she looks so confused. Like, no. What are you What are you talking about?
>> I forget how they say it. Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made, or the other way around.
>> I don't know. I'm have to look it up.
>> Now, what about the weed? She was smoking a hell of a lot of weed, man.
And the weed nowadays, man.
>> Wait, I want to go back to that behavioral thing one more time, too. Go >> ahead. In the juvenile facility, um, she was also talking to a therapist in there as well who has all those letters at the back of her name. And if there was something there, she would have been >> Well, that's I So, okay, cool. So, when she was in the juvenile facility, doctors came in and she was open to them and talked to them.
>> Yeah. The mental health.
>> Do you Yeah. So, do you have that if you have that paperwork where a doctor explains her mindset? I mean, this is the type of stuff that should be released in that space of time, especially at >> Yeah. I'm sorry. She did speak at the trial. Um, there was a letter they read at the trial. She spoke on her behalf.
>> No, what the tri the the the the main the big one that not the juvenile transfer hearing the the one that she got 15. Right. So, what did she what was that letter like? What what did she say?
>> Well, I I can't remember word for word, but um she was her behavior was great.
She was like I I'm probably going to get ripped on for saying this, but she was like a star student. I don't know how else to say it. So, she did all the programming. She was the top of her class in this culinary class that she was in >> in DS.
>> Yeah.
>> So, she was thriving in DY and juvenile detention. You say >> that's right. So, so that's that's why I'm here because I'm trying to understand what is the criteria of juvenile being tried as a juvenile because if she's doing if she's doing good and under 25 her brain's not developing they could put her in these type of put her in these type of uh settings and she can drive maybe she can work away out of reset her brain a little bit and figure navigate her self away from this but once you throw it in the in the jail I mean I can only assume you're going to adjust you know you got to adjust it's not home you got to adjust it's a whole different especially state prisons it seems and I mean this with all due respect Natalie it seems like you don't know anything about the law out there in Like you're just learning now on the fly, which is which is was their advantage for sure.
>> I know. That's why like I don't I don't know. I'm the most boring person you can think of. Like I crochet and watch Marvel movies. Like I don't know this world. I don't. And I don't want to. I'm glad I don't. And I hate I also hate that I don't know because they are taking advantage. Well, not taking advantage. Like I feel like I that's why I wanted to I need to rely on on legal counsel because I don't know. I don't know. Like what can I do? What are all the things I can do? What should I be doing? What should what's next? Like what should I be looking for? What should I watch out for? Right? Because I don't know. I don't know.
>> So, what um why didn't they again to to Kevin K's point, why didn't they let the Did they have the doctor testify about the pots? They didn't let that in.
>> You mean at the trial or the bind over?
>> At the at the trial? At the trial? Yeah, at the bind over. They >> No, remember right after the trial was over, he didn't even give the judge her diagnosis for some reason. So, >> and whose idea was whose idea was it to go to a bench trial? And when they said go to the bench trial, how was that how was that message delivered to you? Like, what did the lawyer say? like we're better off going to a bench trial. Like what was this?
>> How did that how did that conversation go?
>> That's a good question. So the first day of the trial, we we were all there and it was I think like 8:00 in the morning and we're we're all looking at each other like what is it? Is it a bench trial? Is it a jury trial? Like what is it? Like do we know? We still didn't know. And then we found out that it was going to be a bench trial and we're like like oh my gosh. So that was surprising cuz I feel like we maybe should have known um before that. But um sorry my bell is ringing. And then I found out months after she was at Mary'sville that um she wanted a jury trial.
And >> who wanted the jury trial?
>> McKenzie.
>> No. So that's where that's >> Oh [ __ ] >> Okay. His name is Jim and he was a public defender. Um he had said that when you're in the juvenile facility the >> She signed off on what's it called? The >> Uhhuh.
>> That's what I had. But I um >> And my thing is is Yes. Her parents are having to pay for this lawyer, right? But the lawyer isn't working for the Sherillas.
>> The lawyer is working for McKenzie.
>> McKenzie wanted that bench trial because she thought she would have a better chance at con convincing that law that judge that she didn't do this. Mhm. So, basically what that was going to pop up and say is that um she signed for that bench trial. She knew she was having a bench trial.
>> Yes. She didn't tell her parents, but again, she's 18 years old. She didn't have to.
>> Right. I mean, they may have been paying for that attorney, >> but that attorney worked for McKenzie, >> right?
and she didn't know what she didn't care as long in the calls that have come out.
She is just worried about like, you know, I don't even know where I was.
I I lost the thing cuz I I touched the wrong thing. Um I think this is when she gets all me.
>> Is that true or not true?
Did you ever tell McKenzie in a jail phone call that she >> I was torn. I'm torn on the whole bench trial thing personally because a judge should know the law, right? A judge should know the charges and the law and what these things mean and what the beyond a reasonable doubt and all this other, you know, they should know and stuff. But on the other hand, >> and you don't I'll tell you this after this interview and I don't mean to cut you off, right? But I just, you know, after hearing this interview, it's plain to see if you guys don't see it. You're here from the horse's mouth. It doesn't look like now, and I mean this with all due respect, knows much about the law.
So if you're from the outside looking in, you would think just put it to a judge. The judge can see through the [ __ ] >> I know.
>> So to speak. So to speak.
>> I mean I that's fair. That's fair.
>> We put we put we you know you know as as people of a community we put our >> in because like right now the guy Eddie that we know he's a lifer. He's got 30 years in in the last couple years. He finally got transferred to a medium and got >> so they go on and on. Um, and what happened is, and I want to skate girl 2017, um, you know, Sharilla the Killer, all of them, they hooked me up with incident reports. It is 50 something, almost 60some pages, >> okay?
>> And instead of going over them, um, because I want to get to those phone calls, too.
McKenzie was not good while she was in juvie. Like, she was a she was a little jerk.
And um there's almost between January 2023 through September 2023, there are approximately 20 incident reports.
>> Shut up.
>> That's not even 12 months.
>> No.
>> Um and you know, she was refusing to eat the meat because she said it was 25 cent meat. And she would constantly just going to go through them real quick. um that she was constantly threatening everyone that she was going to write grievances and have them lose their job.
>> Um >> that's why when she couldn't get her tablet, Natalie kept saying, "Don't write a grievance about this. Don't write a grievance about this."
>> Well, she really liked doing that in Juvie.
Um yeah, pregame for the Mean Girls. Um she got she just her attitude. She showed her ass in there.
>> I was thinking this yesterday. What today?
You might have a chance to to still be tried as a a minor, right?
They fighting to try you as an adult, wouldn't you go in there, sit down, and shut up?
>> Uh yeah.
>> And just hope for the best? Or do you or B do you go in and act like a complete [ __ ] >> and prove that you think you're an adult?
>> Yeah. And that you just can't follow the rules.
Well, she did be.
So, do I feel No, I mean like she, you know, um something in the gym like they couldn't even hang out in the gym because somebody's being a butthole. And I know I use the word butthole all the time. Um I saw this. She always follow.
She always has a pencil. They keep telling her, "You cannot have a pencil.
You cannot carry a pencil." What does McKenzie do?
>> She always got a pencil with her.
>> Um, >> she thinks the rules don't didn't apply to her.
>> Now, some people did stand up to her and was like, somebody slapped her on the back of the neck.
High five to whoever did that. Um when they did the they looked through her sale and she's got number two cubic box um a a red and white Santa hat, two pencils, a wooden Christmas tree, two plastic rings, 36 all pastels in a box, four pairs of socks, um 28 books, >> what?
>> 28 books. I didn't even think she could really read that well.
It's probably all that girl did whenever.
>> Yeah, Jen, she she did some ugly things.
But, you know, you go to to the juvenile detention center. They're trying to charge you as an adult. So, >> I would go in like a [ __ ] kid.
>> I would have been like, I'm going to sit here. I'm going to do everything I'm supposed to do. I'm not going to talk back to anybody. I'm gonna eat the 25 second the 25 cent meat, you know, >> and I'll talk in gibberish on the phone to my mom and [ __ ] to her about it. But >> well, somebody did threaten to beat her ass over that. They said if they heard her talking like that again, they were going to beat her ass. I can't remember if it was in the juvenile or um >> then they get in a fight one day.
>> Yeah. Somebody's cards got flipped and um resident Sharilla said, "You acting like I won't slap the [ __ ] out of you, >> girl."
Yeah, you better sit down.
And then um the manager was advised, expectations were given to the residents and Sharilla was also threatened to hit so and so with a broom.
>> Also, the resident is a weird way to like I guess they're not inmate.
>> Yeah, they call them residents and juvenile I guess. Um there was always verbal stuff and and we can because you know sometimes the the handwriting is so bad that would add you know um time to go through it. Usually I try to write them out before and I did not have time.
>> I can help I can help you one day because I can read doctor handwriting really well too because I worked for a doctor that used to handwrite in his shorts. So, >> oh, and and Mackenzie was talking [ __ ] about somebody saying that they didn't deserve to go home.
>> Oh my god, >> that girl was going to beat her ass. I knew >> Mackenzie got what she >> Ma'am. Ma'am, >> don't spit too high.
>> You know how she gets aggravated with the crazy lady?
>> Yes. The one next to her. Ma'am.
>> Ma'am.
Um, >> oh, that girl >> she carries around phone books with her even though she's told she can't travel with her phone books.
>> What?
>> Yeah. Like she had chewed gum stuck to her wall cuz she was chewing gum and sticking it on the wall.
Oh, she is the prison version of Regina George. If I ever um Oh, somebody said she's speaking in codes on the phone.
>> Oh, they told on her.
>> I would think that you couldn't do that, but I mean, I don't know.
>> No, you're not supposed to. They try and figure out what you're talking about.
So they have >> trying to figure out code and messages like >> Jen it's that movie um >> Mean Girls.
>> Mean Girls. I was going to say you know with the Mean Girls.
>> That was um Rachel McAdams. Rachel McAdams played Regina George.
She tried to manipulate the residents into turning the She is um I mean and it wasn't even a full 12 months. It was >> nine months and she showed her ass.
>> Sit down and like mind your P's and Q's.
God damn.
And she said that they had to sit down all the time in juvie anyways. They couldn't move around.
>> Yeah. So, I've I've seen there's also several that say um Mackenzie would get threatened by other residents.
>> And this one is in July and it says resident Mackenzie Sharilla was told she will be she will get beat up next.
>> And then she called her mom all scared.
Mhm. And on July 12th, resident whatever threatened resident Mackenzie Sharilla and stated she was going to smack the [ __ ] out of her on Friday before she leaves to go home.
>> That girl said, "I know when I'm leaving. Hold on.
>> You wait till Friday, bitch."
>> They ain't adding no extra time to my sentence.
Um, she said, "I'mma throw a pen at you and I'mma beat your ass."
So, yeah, it was always um >> Oh my god, that I'm I'm sorry. That would be hilarious to read.
>> Yeah. So, it it's she did not go and behave herself.
>> No. Just like her like her mom said she didn't get in trouble in school and then here we are.
>> Mhm.
Yeah. um the concert.
She's like, "Oh, you know, Dom was supposed to go with them and you know, blah blah blah."
The concert was September 17th. And they ask her, "Damn it. I know that I probably passed it up or I did something that screwed it up, but and I had it in here." And basically what they they ask her is like, "So this concert was in October, right?" And she's like, "Mhm.
Mhm.
The concert was September 17th.
>> The one where they >> The concert was in September. The Halloween party was in October, >> right? But she says that the concert's in October.
>> So, she didn't even know that. That wasn't even truthful. Does Does she know? I don't know. But it was September 17th and um >> we probably know more than she does about her daughter.
Yeah, probably. So, um, oh, and then she also, just to give y'all a rundown on what what what else they talk about in the interview, that they were at a point in their life where she was trying to help them and she was enjoying moving them to the next level of their relationship because they were going to, you know, live together like she helped them plant a garden >> and she was enjoying all that.
>> She was here and there.
>> Ma'am, ma'am, your daughter was 17.
She wasn't used >> to not be worrying about the next stage in her relationship.
>> Yeah. Why were you worrying about moving?
>> And also stay out of your kids' relationship like that if you think that they're grown up enough.
>> Exactly. That was strange to me.
>> Like, oh, now she wants to parent, >> right? She was enjoying moving them to the next level because they were, you know, >> no, she was meddling.
>> She was only 17.
Um, I personally want my kids to live at home as long as they want to. They definitely not moving out at 17.
>> Not to live with no boy.
>> No.
No.
>> I don't care how good of a kid he is.
Not No. Not on my watch.
Not while the state says that you are my responsibility.
>> Exactly.
Um so this was just another example of how her parents I believe allegedly failed her.
>> Oh absolutely.
and she is where she is.
If I don't I don't think she'll get out in the 15 year at the 15 year mark.
>> I don't think so either.
>> I mean not with the amount of DRS that she's already getting >> and we've seen some some really gross DRS that she has from the person.
>> And I mean also you have to sit in front of the parole board and admit your guilt. Am I am I wrong? I don't know.
I've never been been.
>> They want you to They want you They want to know what happened. Do you feel remorse or >> And I don't >> I think she would have shown that in the interview with Netflix, but I we didn't I didn't even get that.
>> She said, "Is that good?
>> I didn't want to I didn't want to do too much."
>> Yeah. I don't want to sound crazy.
Ma'am, you act crazy, ma'am. You think she would have turned on some waterfall tears and like cuz parole is going to bring that up. I'm sorry. So, this is a question I have. No, I don't think she'll get first. Parole. Do you think, and everybody in the chat, too, I want to know what y'all think.
had she and Natalie and the dead just sat quietly and not been look at me even before she was arrested and now that she's in prison and still like cuz she is like all over these men that are contacting her. If you're listening to the calls that were released today.
>> No, I haven't listened to those.
>> She's super excited about some men contacting.
>> Give that some a listen. Let's say that she would have just sat down and shut up.
>> I don't know that they would have even looked into it because remember the families felt it was an accident at first.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't know that much of an investigation would have gone on.
I think even if they did an investigation, even if she was in prison, had she just still sat down and shut up, >> I think she would have gotten vehicular.
>> Uh-huh.
>> Yep.
>> Or she would get out on first, you know, 15 years, you killed two people.
>> Accident or not?
>> That's not a lot of time. I'm sorry.
>> No, >> for two lives taken, you know, >> right? But every phone call, every DR, everything's gonna come up.
>> Yeah. I think she would have just sat down >> and looking Natalie in the face when they ask her. So, what is she doing? If is she taking classes? Is she taking courses? And she's like, "When she can when she can, ma'am, that doesn't that's ma'am, that's not real.
You know, >> ma'am, she didn't behave enough to stay in the house with the beer."
>> It's not believable.
>> She got out. They got they kicked her out of that housing because she wasn't behaving.
>> I think she's gonna >> because she stole from the bead room.
>> I think McKenzie is going to fall into living in the prison lifestyle.
>> Oh, she's going to be institutionalized by those 15 and it'll be too much.
>> Yeah. I think this is this is her life.
Like she's not leaving um because she's never going to be able to behave enough.
That's just what I think.
>> Yeah, I agree. And Jen, I've I think I think that house was full of four teenage girls, but that dad likes to talk and run his mouth and gossip and >> and and so Natalie also says that her whole family speaks the um the corny language. I think she means like her side of the family.
>> Yeah, her like her parents and stuff.
They all did.
>> So, what is she?
>> Romanian. Gypsy. It's not Romanian. What is it?
>> They like work at the carnival. I thought I don't know.
>> I don't know.
>> What are the gypsies justified? Don't know. I'm sure Ro. It's not Romanian, but it's something the word similar to that.
Maybe. Um I don't know. Her maiden name is Ford.
That's not >> That's why Mackenzie's middle name is Ford.
>> Yes.
>> Weird. I wondered that.
>> It's Natalie Shannon Ford.
>> And it's Mackenzie Ford Sherilla. I wondered why Ford was her middle name.
Ford.
>> And I'll tell you how strange this is.
About a year ago, um McKenzie's little sister, she's of age now, changed her middle name from Marie to Mary Lou.
>> Mary Lou.
>> Mhm. I don't I don't know.
>> That's weird.
>> Um Well, she's already gone gay for this stay. She's already had confrontations with the the broads in there. She'll definitely catch more charges in 15 years. Abs. I don't Yeah, I don't see her leaving.
Roman gypsies would slice her up if they spoke that in front of real gypsies.
It's just so weird. I wouldn't want to um I don't know. I wouldn't want to teach my daughter how to secretly talk in front of people.
>> No. No. I mean, I don't think >> if we spoke a different language like Cajun French still because that's something that my family spoke in Unfortunately, the kids, myself included, we didn't want to learn it.
>> No, we didn't.
>> And they didn't teach it in schools.
They taught a different French.
>> They taught regular. They taught French as if we were going to [ __ ] France.
>> Mhm. And that is not what, you know, our family knew or spoke. Um, and maybe our parents or our grandparents didn't want to want us to know because they wanted to keep talking about everybody. I mean, I don't know about you, but my parents barely knew it enough to have a conversation. I only heard my grandparents.
>> My grandparents were huge with it. Um, >> and that's when they were talking about somebody.
>> Mhm.
>> Or us >> or Yeah. about how bad >> that died.
>> Yeah. That's >> some people that still do.
>> I do know a few people my age and, you know, 30s, 40s that still speak it because their parents spoke it like really heavily. Um, but my parents, I think I understood more than they did as they got older and weren't weren't living with their parents. It was like because I stayed with my grandparents.
>> We were there during the day.
>> Mhm. The summers. Yep.
>> Yep. Same.
But I only picked up on the bad words most of the time.
>> One time my grandma called me something and I said, >> I don't know what she Oh, she called me Jaloo. And I said, "What that means?"
And she said, "Pretty girl."
It means jealous.
>> Jealous. They called me jealous.
>> We tried to teach our kids like words every now and then, me and my husband, but they don't have no interest. Just like we didn't. No, I mean my nose like >> y >> uh I use pv bet a lot but just I mean I find I don't even use the the same words as I as much as I did whenever I was younger because other people don't understand it either you know.
>> Yeah. It's kind of like what are you talking about? You say things in front of people. And the thing is is like our grandparents, they would get in trouble for speaking it. So of course it died off, you know. They got in trouble as kids for speaking it.
>> Yeah.
>> So >> I miss those days.
>> Me too. To go back to the early 90s.
Damn.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, back when we didn't have cell phones on our bicycles.
>> Yeah. Mackenzie cuz she had to have one because she couldn't ask the parent to use their phone to call >> Natalie.
So, we're going to go over all the juvenile incident reports and I'm just Well, I told y'all what they were. She's a butthole. Like, she was just being, you know, a little jerk the whole time she was there. Um, and we will go over them one night. That was our plan tonight. But the interview is like we talk a lot and the interview was like 2 hours long >> and you remember I had cut out like >> 15 20 minutes of it and I sped it up.
>> Um, but I wanted to touch on some of the things that Natalie said that weren't necessarily true.
>> Right. You did a really good job at putting that together >> and I think we kind of did that, you know, for the most part. Um, there's probably some other things in there that I didn't catch. Sure.
If I listen to it again, I'm sure I'd catch something different.
>> So, um, you know, we had two hours. I think we can wrap it up.
>> Could you imagine raising a kid like McKenzie? It's bothersome to me that they were absolutely okay with her behavior. You know, I'm telling you, my sometimes my mom will say the people who were the hardest on me, you know, my mom and my dad were like, "You're so hard on your kids." And I'm like, "Y'all got freaking nerve."
But I know I see their potential.
>> They see their grandchildren through a different lens, too.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I I I hold them up to that standard.
And I think you know >> I'm going to keep doing it cuz I'm not raising little Mackenzie's to run around.
>> Oh no.
>> Nothing in my power.
>> You don't raise them, the court system will.
>> Look, we were laying down to go to bed the other night and she saw a picture of McKenzie as I was scrolling YouTube or something. She was like, "Who is that?"
I was like, "Oh, let me tell you. Let me tell you about her. I'mma scare it right into you right now.
>> And remember, we all need to talk to our kids. If we have kids, even if they're like in their early 20s, hey, if you have some kind of crazy [ __ ] um don't be afraid to to come to us and say, >> "Right, I don't know how to feel like don't feel like you can't come to us."
>> Yeah. I need help getting rid of this or I need help not like getting rid of a body. But then again, Paul, >> I mean, you know, right? We'll figure it out. But >> yeah, >> but not um don't be afraid to say, "I don't know how to get out of this."
>> Mhm.
>> Because it can turn bad. And that that's like I think a huge takeaway from all of this.
>> And that's the thing, people.
>> And I'm not saying that Dom didn't have anybody to go to. Maybe he did or whatever, but he could have also >> he didn't feel, you know, he didn't feel comfortable. Yeah. We don't know.
We don't know if that's why DaVon was in the car. He thought that it would like keep the situation. We don't know. I don't Nobody will ever know.
>> That's really sad.
But um I think we'll be back with like, you know, the incident reports. We'll review some calls because some of them >> I want to do some of these calls with you.
>> Yeah. She's um they getting wild them calls and she's gross.
Wait, is she phone boning?
>> No, no, no, no. Remember, I ain't showered. I ain't >> It been like a week.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And >> Oh, yeah. That one was gross. But I thought you meant like we were getting like some almost phone bone and I was like, damn. Okay.
>> You never know.
>> No, we don't we don't know what's going to come out cuz I mean we got that with Wade. So >> yeah, Jen, he he did. Um but they said that wasn't >> they do that regularly.
>> Yeah, >> that wasn't out of the norm for them.
>> But maybe he had a feeling. I don't I don't know.
>> We don't know.
>> That's just it's the whole thing's terrible. You know, I think about I have a younger brother. Like I'm the big sister and I like I can be as mean as I want to him. I can call him what I want.
I can say what I want, but don't mess with my brother. Don't mess with my little brother >> cuz I will come after you.
>> Same. I was the same way.
And I'm like, and I was going to my neph like my oldest nephew and I are only 11 years apart.
>> Jen, I think some friends had said that, but I listened to an interview of his mom earlier and the sister and she was like, um, no, that was pretty normal.
Like you just never know when you might get one from one of us if we doing whatever, >> right? could woke up in the middle of the night and was like, "Oh, while I'm up, you know, >> let me let everybody, you know, they'll wake up to this in the morning, like >> kind of thing."
>> Um, but like like I was saying, even my oldest nephew, I'm only 11 years older than him. Like we grew up like siblings, right?
>> I can say and do whatever, but don't mess with him.
>> Yeah, I have a little cousin like that.
Well, I say little, he's three, two and a half years younger than me. Like I can be so mean and we would fight. Oh my god.
>> Oh, me and my nephew, too. Don't want to see you my first baby, too. Like, >> yeah, that. But let me find out some other little Somebody at high school is giving you a hard time.
>> Mhm. I'm coming.
>> Like, don't >> just call me.
Call me. Even though you stand a whole foot taller than me. Call me.
>> I know, right?
>> I mean, I'm only five foot, so it's not hard.
>> Me either. I was the first like height achievement in my family. They' be like, "Oh, I'm taller than her." Yay.
Thanks.
>> So, I think we're going to cover some more. I think definitely we should cover some more, Mackenzie, and not let it die off. And um cuz her appeal's still out there, right?
And the more people who know and the more people who hear about everything, the better for the family, both families.
>> And I adore >> all the sisters on both sides. like they just, you know, >> they're so sweet. Everything that I've seen.
>> And there's a petition. Um I didn't grab the link, but there's a petition for Law.
>> Yeah. So, y'all definitely look into that. I think Plug has it. Um >> I'll find it and post it, too.
>> Mud Rock. Yes. I love that. That's the website I was telling you about the other night. Um to go on to find stuff.
>> Oh, you read that wrong. She's saying the Murdoch case.
>> Oh, Murdoch. Okay.
>> But I know what you Yes, the Murdoch case is going to be wild, too. I think it's crazy that they won that. Um I mean, I still think he's going to be found guilty. And even if he's not, he has those federal charges. He's not getting out.
>> He's got to spend like what 40 years in there >> on just the federal charges. Yeah. He's not getting out like >> And he said he he did tell his attorney.
His attorney spoke last week and said, "Look, he knows he's not getting out. He knows he's not coming home. He just doesn't want to go, you know, be be known to say that, you know, um there's already a Dom's law about an ebike. Oh, good to know.
>> Okay. So, I'll make sure that I find the right I'll check with Plug and make sure that I get the right link.
>> He didn't want to be known for murdering his child and his >> and his wife. He's fine with going to prison for another 40 years, >> right? And they had already gotten off on the um the housekeeper one. Like too much happened around that family. I'm sorry.
>> Yeah, it was crazy. But I'll watch.
>> Was looking Exactly. That's >> I also watch that Amanda one.
>> Whatever happens again.
>> We need to do if that one I think we should recap that one.
>> She deleted. We need to post that shirt.
Okay. I'mma post it when I get off of here. Okay. All right, y'all. Thank y'all so much for being here. We love y'all and we'll be back. We'll let y'all know when we going to come back. Um, I'll be out of town for the next two days >> and I have work coming up, but I'm sure we can fit in a shorter live. I say short, but >> we just talk a lot. So, >> we do. And I'm sorry to the people who don't like it. Put us on two.
>> I'll see you later.
>> Bye.
>> I'll see all of y'all later. Bye. Thank y'all for being here.
>> Thank y'all.
>> See y'all later.
Is there any last word that you'd like to say?
>> Did I touch on that the right? Okay. So, everything is like you think I don't want to force anything and just say too much or sound crazy.
That's it.
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