iOS 27 introduces a redesigned Siri interface that integrates with the Dynamic Island, providing system-level AI access that differs from third-party AI apps by offering seamless integration across applications like Photos and Notes. The redesign addresses user frustration with previous AI features by making Siri more accessible through a dedicated tap gesture while maintaining the Dynamic Island's functionality for other app intents. This approach reflects Apple's design philosophy of prioritizing user experience and practical utility over feature density, as demonstrated by the streamlined AirPods settings redesign that consolidates multiple features into a more organized interface.
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Coming up, actual real life leaked renders of iOS 27, a big fix coming for AirPods users, Johnny Ives bizarre Ferrari luche design, and that's about it.
Good evening and welcome to the Cult of Mac podcast. I'm your host today, D.
Griffin Jones. Uh, last week, Lander was out because one of his many children was graduating some level of school. We still haven't figured out what. I don't know why he's not here today. He didn't tell me. But uh don't worry, we've still got Lewis Wallace. Hello, Lewis.
>> Hey, it's great to be here even if Lander can't be.
>> Mhm. It's great to be here because Lander.
>> Oh, I didn't say that. I did not say that.
>> Also joining us returning, we have Christina Warren. Welcome.
>> Hey, thanks so much for having me back.
>> I think you're first uh repeat guest.
>> Yes. I love that. That makes me feel great. I love that. I love that. Uh my mom listens to the show now and uh she she she really liked you last time.
She'll be she'll be glad to hear that you're back.
>> Oh, awesome. Well, well, hi. Hi, Griffin's mom. Great. Great. Uh thanks for liking me.
>> Every a few times I I go over there, she's like, "Hey, when are you going to have that chick on again?"
>> She really?
>> Wow.
>> Come on. It's that chick. Her name is Film Girl.
>> Exactly. Exactly. It's is that film girl. No. Exactly. No.
So, this week's episode of the podcast is brought to you.
>> Oh, no.
>> By the number five.
>> You need to zoom out. There we go. Okay.
>> Five.
>> Uh, I don't know why. I I ordered some uh furniture a while ago, like one of those long, skinny, tall tables that like goes behind a sofa. And uh you know, I went out on the front porch, saw the package there, I was like, "Okay, that's got to be it." Uh, and then there was another envelope, like a a bubble sort of envelope, really skinny, from the same like return address. Uh, and I wasn't really sure what that was. Maybe they shipped it into like two separate packages. I opened up the second one and it is a uh gold foil balloon of the number five.
I'm not entirely sure why. Uh, so this week's episode is brought to you by the number five. Uh, >> that is bizarre.
>> That's bizarre.
>> Mhm. Somebody's >> It's not your fifth birthday, right?
>> This is what I was going to say. I was going to say my my nephew just turned five actually. Yeah. And a few weeks ago and I was like maybe maybe there's a mixup, right? Maybe something was supposed to go to like a fifth birthday house and like you got the balloon instead. But you know what? It's a good balloon. And uh >> it is. Yeah. It'll be really good next year which will be my my fifth anniversary at Cult. But uh Oh, nice.
>> Today it's just fine. It's well beyond the fifth episode of the podcast uh as well. But here we are. Did it have your name on the package? For sure. I mean, >> it was addressed and and spelled to like the same address that, you know, the the the table arrived at. Same return address spelled exactly the same way.
Maybe this outfit sells both uh furniture and uh gold foil balloons.
>> I wouldn't pop it, man. Might be anthrax.
>> Oh, yeah. I'll keep it inside. Lewis, why don't you tell us about iOS 27?
>> What a thing to wake up to this morning.
Holy moly. Uh Bloomberg's out with this big post about, you know, the redesign of iOS 27 and it's got I I I don't ever remember seeing anything this uh you know, extensive from Bloomberg. They've got all of these um renders showing basically what Apple's going to show off in a week, a week and change. Uh big changes coming to Siri. A lot of this is based on reporting that we've already, you know, read and talked about at infant item or however in the world you pronounce that. Uh but this shows how it's going to look. It, you know, Siri popping out of the dynamic island and which is apparently going to be the hidey-hole where Siri lives in iOS 27.
uh the implementation of the Siri uh visual intelligence stuff inside the camera app. All these really and they're actually I mean honestly they're they're gorgeous looking renderings.
>> They did a very good job. Yeah, >> it's very impressive. But it's it's a ton of it. You know the it shows what that uh dynamic island is going to look like. It kind of expands out. Although it's got that weird liquid glass warping, which I know I'm already tired of that. Uh, you know, the the search or ask box, which has been reported before, shows how that works. Uh, it's just it's really it's kind of shocking how how in-depth these things are and how it really brings to life all these rumors we've heard. It it's a pretty big change, you know. Uh, and as we've been discussing for weeks, months, etc., Um AI is just like the main thing in iOS 27. You know, this redesigned Siri that's, you know, going to work, absolutely going to work work beautifully. Um there's like all these different ways that they're implemented. You know, the like a Siri app that works like a chatbot. A lot of really rich looking um images and stuff. Like I saw there's one like a search for a basketball player shows a a picture of him which is you know this looks nice. Um tons of AI powered information that you can get you know doing searches in Siri and uh I don't know. Have you guys had a chance to look at it yet?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean like it's always hard to tell with these things when it's a render. Um even though and in this case I'm I'm assuming and we we talked about this a little bit pre-show. Looks like the renders were done by by Bloomberg's in-house team and and I don't know, you know, um which means that, you know, they were able to do it to whatever specifications um Mark and I guess the other editors wanted, but it's always hard to kind of predict based on on a render if you know, okay, what is this actually going to look like? Is this really going to be what we're going to see or is this, you know, um the the um outside artists interpretation based on on the facts that that they've heard? Um, but just what what we're seeing, I mean, you know, it makes logical sense. It looks really good. And I I I like the more I think about it, and I know this was reported before, I do like the idea of using uh the dynamic island as kind of the the place to access Siri, assuming Siri's actually going to be useful this time. I actually do like that as uh kind of an always on kind of place, right?
Like I think that that is a good way of not having to take up a button, which is kind of what's happened in the past. You know, people have had, you know, oh, we'll make the action button Siri. No, but people want that for other types of things. Um, and and I think that especially if you're going to be able to, you know, have some of the visual intelligence and other aspects built into it. I like that. I I think that could be kind of a good UI paradigm to be like, okay, if I don't have another thing that's using my dynamic island at this time, I can just tap on this space and and pull up Siri and then interact with it and either ask a question that might be unrelated to what's on my screen or maybe it is related to what I'm doing and what what I'm in the flow with. I like that a lot. So, I I like kind of that perspective and and I think that um yeah, I mean, these renders are are very are very good. good. I mean, it looks at least from what the renders are showing like a much more refined kind of, you know, iOS 26 style, which is obviously what we've been hearing for the last few months. That's what they're going to be doing with the overhaul with iOS 27 is is it's not going to be a complete rethinking of anything, but just more refinements of what we've had before. But I think it looks good and and I I'm I'm excited to see how they will integrate these features. Again, the big caveat is will it actually be good this time into the other applications and into the other, you know, parts of the OS because that's the thing that if this can actually be useful, I think that a lot of people would really enjoy this because that that gives you the sort of integration that you don't have with existing AI apps right now. um no matter what, you know, access they can have, it's not going to be the same as being kind of a system level integration where I can pull it up anywhere anytime and I can have it built into the photos app and I can have it built into to notes and I can have it built into to other aspects.
Um and and I I think that they if they're able to pull this off, this approach strikes me as being better than just having the the Apple intelligence kind of button right now that gets in your way that you accidentally invoke more often than not and you're like, "Please, please go away. I don't actually want you to summarize anything for me because you'll take five minutes and then be terrible. Um, so you know, >> I almost wonder if they actually mocked it up as like a little Swifty demo, a demo app because I mean the people have always done like concept renders of, you know, this is what I dream iOS 16 will be like. And they always don't look very good. They even the best ones like they get a bunch of like little appley design details wrong because they're just trying to build it from scratch in like you know Adobe After Effects and and that only gets harder with like with glass because it's no longer just like a plane of translucent glass. It's got to have like the lensing effects and all that. But I really wonder if they like mocked these up in Swift UI because there it goes beyond like the the few images that we can uh show in the article. Like if you click if you have access to Bloomberg and you can look at the full story like they've got the a mocked up like Siri app interface that shows what that's like and it's got like you know it looks like liquid glass. I mean the other part of this is that now now that we've heard this rumor for a while, we can really sink into the fact that like having it in the dynamic island and also merging it with spotlight does two things. I mean, it it gives the iPhone universal access to Spotlight, which it has never had before. You always have to, you know, swipe up, swipe up, swipe up like sometimes three times to get to your home screen and then swipe down to get Spotlight. But having it everywhere on the iPhone would actually be excellent.
It's with with iPhone mirroring on the Mac.
>> You can access Spotlight. I think it has like the command three shortcut for it.
>> It's like, why can't you get that on my iPhone? As soon as I played around with that, I was like, this would be really great to just have on my iPhone. Yeah.
No, I fully agree because that is one of the and because it's annoying. You know, you kind of have kind of the spotlight like feature in iOS, but it doesn't work the same way as it does on a Mac and it's inconsistent and sometimes it will actually find things otherwise. So, yeah, I'm with you. I think I would love to have, you know, that kind of functionality that you get the on the iPhone mirroring.
>> And on the iPad, you have Spotlight, but only if you have an external keyboard.
It doesn't have a gesture on on its own.
So, it sounds like, you know, the gesture is going to I mean, the top of the screen is going to be a very busy space now, at least on a non-folding iPhone. On a portrait iPhone, like you can swipe down from the left for notification center, the middle for spotlight/ Siri, and now the right for control center. That's a that's a busy space.
>> Yeah, that that's a good point. That is a busy space. And I do wonder I mean I think this will be the interesting thing is is how they will deal with I guess like conflicting dynamic island things because already right now um if you have something like now playing but if you have another thing like there are two things you can kind of see it once and you can kind of swap between them but usually once you've dismissed one of the app intents or whatever it's called from the dynamic island it's gone right like you've got to kind of like pull it back up again. So, I'm thinking like if you have I run into this when I travel sometimes where I'll have two competing apps. Um like my my my uh like the Delta app and FlightD will both be trying to tell me when I'm landing and um and you know and you can kind of get around that a little bit. I am curious if you're going to be kind of reserving some of this space for Siri. Maybe it is just the fact that it's a tap gesture. Maybe that's all it is is just if you tap in a certain area, it pulls up Siri and it'll handle the dynamic island otherwise the same way that it has. Um, but I that'll be the only interesting thing. But you you bring up a good point. It's it'll be it's you now have like three different touch points at the top of the screen.
You know, one for, you know, kind of notification center, one for, you know, uh, Siri or for uh, you know, um, uh, Spotlight, and then another for um, control center.
>> I mean, that's a good point as well. You can have up to two things in the dynamic island at once. Yeah.
>> So then it becomes five different tap areas in a very narrow space. I mean >> I we were also talking about this like in our in our Slack. Like how is this going to work on the iPad? Like maybe you just have to drag down from an invisible area at the top. I mean on the iPad there's also like the multi-windowing mode where dragging from the top of the screen moves windows around. So that conflicts as well like >> but you know they also have to have it because I mean when you have a folding iPhone and you have it unfolded to the center and there's no cutout in the top middle of the screen. I mean the gesture has to work the same there.
>> Yeah.
>> At least it'll be really easy to find the center of the screen because it'll have like a big crease going down a little bit. But >> uh German's post today uh actually says there's two starting points for Siri.
One is, you know, classic speaking the the word. And the second method is entirely new. Quote, "Apple plans to let users swipe down from the top center of the iPhone anywhere in the system to launch a new search or ask interface."
>> And then you swipe down even further and then it opens the Siri app, which is a a clever way to do it. I mean, >> yeah.
>> I mean, is it going to be an app on your home screen, do we think? Is it going to have an icon?
>> That's what I assumed before I read this.
>> Sounds like it.
>> I think so. I mean, I I think that they kind of h I mean, I don't know. I guess they could go one of two ways. I would like them to do that just because I think that it would be nice to have a dedicated app where you can have all of your, you know, conversation history and other stuff and just go into it. But I would also like it to be able to be invoked, whether it's through voice or through a gesture anywhere you are, right? I I I would I would like both.
And and I I you know um I wouldn't necessarily want like and I think this would take you out of it to be honest if I'm in another application. I don't want to be ported from my browser or what I'm writing or my email or anything else into the Siri app just because I've invoked that. Right? Like I think that's a bad experience. I think instead I might just want to bring it up and say okay I'm going to ask a question about this and it can do it in the background and maybe alert me when it has um something that's done right. Um, or you know, if I'm using a foldable phone, maybe I have a separate window open, right? Like that that would be that that that sure would be would be great.
>> I mean, there are there are like a lot of hidden apps. Like visual intelligence is an app, but it doesn't have an icon.
>> Well, I was going to say I was going to say like, yeah, >> the magnifier was like that for a while.
>> Um, I can see a situation where Apple thinks, well, you can always open it just by swiping down and then swiping down further. And I can also foresee putting an icon on the home screen might send the wrong message. were like, "We don't want people to think that you have to tap this icon on the home screen, open it if we want to train you to swipe down."
>> If we want you to Yeah, that's a really good point. And I don't know how you handle that because on the one hand, you're right. You don't want people to think this is the only way you interact with it. On the other hand, you have people who have four years of builtup muscle memory of opening up the Chat GPT app or the Claw app or the Gemini app or Perplexity or anything else. And so there's >> Yeah, but Apple doesn't want to be like those people.
>> Oh, I know. Apple.
>> Well, they want to be Apple. But but but what I'm saying is you have like users who it's like this is not the first time they've used you know ver an AI assistant like that that's that's the thing. I mean, if if Apple wants to come at this pretending that this is all brand new, net new information for its user base, I think they're going to not do well, right? Like two years ago, they could pretend like everything they were announcing was brand new and and magical and no one else had done before. And then it turned out, well, a >> you didn't you didn't land it. And and B, what >> that was another two years ago.
>> That was another two years ago. And two years ago, that wasn't even an accurate statement, right? two years ago. It it to me like my my my big critique of WWC of 2024 is I was like I I work in AI. I know what's happening in the space.
What's being talked about and announced does not align with my reality of what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing and what's happening here. Um putting any of the, you know, claims they made that now they're going to have to, you know, they settled class action over aside like it just the the messaging didn't align.
Now, I feel like again to your point, like it's two years later, you're even I'm not going to say further behind because I think that they weirdly timed this in a in a really good way um for for themselves. But I mean, people have different I guess built-in um expectations and use cases and muscle memory for how they've already been using with these apps. And so, yeah, I I have a feeling you're probably right that they won't make it an app on a home screen. I feel like they will be like, "Oh, no, we don't need this." But there's part of me that hopes that it is there. Just kind of like, you know, passwords was was not an app for a long time. It was hidden in the settings screen and like you had to create um you know, a shortcut or at least I did to go directly to that section before they released the passwords app. And and I don't I I don't know. I just feel like if there's going to be if there's going to be like a level where I can handle, you know, like my, you know, my conversations and stuff like that, I guess that's fine. if I either open up the full app going all the way down or if I go into settings to to to drop into it. But I wouldn't mind if there was an application. Maybe Apple doesn't put it on the home screen. Maybe they put it in one of the folders, you know, hidden away like like like the measuring app or something.
>> It's not that Apple was behind. It's that two years ago they were two years ahead.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
>> Hire me, Greg Jwak.
Okay. Lewis, tell us about the camera app.
>> Yeah. So, we've heard tons about this customizable camera app that's coming in iOS 27. Now, we get to see what it's probably going to look like. By the way, I I just went and checked. I mean, Bloomberg said this is based on information that they have seen and information from people familiar with the work, which, you know, oddly enough, those people didn't want their names in the story. And uh also, oddly enough, Apple refused to comment on the whole situation. But uh yeah, this looks pretty slick, too. you know, like showing you actually how you'll be able to uh manipulate the the camera app so you can put the the settings that you want that you use, make them easy to find on the screen.
>> It looks very similar to I don't know like what is a thing called uh >> putting widgets on the screen >> control center stuff. Yeah, it's a similar interface and you know if you got an iPhone that's running iOS 26, you're gonna say, "Oh, this makes perfect sense." And it does make sense.
I mean, there's so many. The camera app is so I mean, it's not as, you know, amazing as some of the third party ones, but it's got a lot of settings and stuff that are important. And if you actually care about taking pictures and you want to do things a certain way, it's pretty great that you can surface the the toggles and switches and settings that you particularly like to use. Last year they they they cleared out all of the buttons and now there's just a lot of blank white space and now they're letting you put whatever you want back in there. So >> it's I mean I actually I like the the way it is now. I I prefer that over the way it was before.
>> It's >> Yeah, I'll probably I mean you still have all the functionality. It's just hidden. You have to like tap the photo button or the video button to get to the settings. And honestly, I might I might keep it in that state. You know, as much as I fiddle with those every every time I open the camera app, I kind of like the clean look as well. As we mentioned before, baking in Apple intelligence. So like now when you swipe through the the standard things, I think right now it's just video and photo is is the stock thing, right? But now if you slide over one more, maybe it'll be in the center, whatever. I don't think it actually says here, but there's going to be a little Siri looking icon that uh launches Apple Intelligence. So that I mean, the goal there is to make that actually visible to people so they don't have to remember, oh, I have to press the camera control and I have to hold it a certain amount of time.
I I I it because that is a pretty useful feature. It and it's it's actually I don't know I find it kind of tricky to invoke it. I mean a lot of times I accidentally end up opening the camera instead of doing it. So the whole camera control has just been a a fussy thing.
It's like I guess shoehorning visual intelligence into the screenshot functionality. But I think all that has done is annoyed people.
>> Yes. Because you because again you hit it like when you're not trying to I'm taking a screenshot. I'm trying to crop it and instead now I've invoked visual intelligence and it's now trying to edit my screenshot for me and I'm like >> and if you accidentally tap on the screenshot then it'll bring it up again.
>> Exactly.
>> You don't know how to go away.
>> I'm glad I'm not the only one that's annoyed by that.
>> Do you ever use visual intelligence?
>> No. Absolutely not. No. No. Not not unless like like Lewis because I also take screenshots like 50 times a day and I invoke it accidentally and then I'm and then I'm annoyed, right? Like this is this is kind of my whole beef, I guess. like I'm I'm sorry to be like a hater, the last like two years of like Apple intelligence is that I only use it when it is an accident and then I get annoyed with it which then makes me not want to use it again. So, I'm I'm genuinely trying to go into the new Siri area with like a very open mind and like I I have like you know um from you know the reports that are coming out like I and I know people who work at Apple I know they're working really hard to deliver a good experience but I have to be honest like the last couple of years I've just been like no this is you know when this gets in my face it's it's not it's not what I want at all. So no I don't use the visual intelligence.
>> Do you feel like having it right in the camera app would make you use it more? I would actually and that's the thing because because to lose this point I remember when I tried to use it before it was finicky and I was like okay well this is a pain and then you just accidentally invoke it and you're like well now I'm annoyed but if it was something where especially if it works and again like I keep saying as as the caveat but it's important if it's actually useful and this time I think they're actually using a frontier model that will be good so I I I have hopes for that then I do feel like that could be interesting where because there are these scenarios um this was a couple of years ago now but there was like a a weird um I guess a a pan or or or or or like some sort of container um that someone gave my my mom and I was like what is this for? and I took a picture of it and I gave it to Chad Gabbt and then they gave me a result and I don't know if it was exactly right but it was kind of close enough and then I found something on Reddit and it turned out it was you know either like it was it was just some sort of weird kind of platter thing and I would love to have like because you have the scenarios you're like what type of plant is this or or what is this object or you know um what what um kind of does this signify it would be much easier for me to pull up the camera app which you already use for QR codes and for other things to do that than having to think about, okay, well, now I've got to pull up like a different application and I have to open up the camera there and then I have to go through this whole process. Like I I think that yeah, if it was built in directly to the camera, I I do feel like that would be something that I would use a lot more, especially if it works.
>> Especially if it works is uh carrying a lot of weight in that sentence, but we'll see.
>> I mean, right now, visual intelligence is not bad. Uh I use it all the time to identify plants. seems to be perfectly fine for that. I don't know that I've ever used it to like add a concert to, you know, ticket to my calendar or anything like that. All the things they say.
>> I've only been to California once, but it are there just like concert posters on every like street corner. How often is that the case instead of just house?
So, how would I know?
>> Okay. Well, in in in Seattle, we're kind of famous like people literally plaster um I guess like some of like the telephone poles and other things with, you know, posters for concerts and stuff like it's it's kind of like a known thing and sometimes they're old, sometimes they're not. So, I guess that's maybe a thing, but yeah, I mean I I I don't know how how common it would be. I mean, you see it around college campuses and things like that where people put, you know, signs up of posters of of events and I guess that could be useful um if if you're going to use it that way. I don't know how many people I'd be curious to know how many people just in general like I think that's one of those use cases that the AI companies have kind of invented to be like oh this is how people will use the fact that the the models have vision support that they'll that they'll do this but I think it's much more likely you know things like Lewis like I want to identify this plant or I want to identify you know something about like this this weird object in my house or maybe you know this type of bird or something else like that that seems like a much more likely thing just because you've been able to do for years, even pre this wave of Apple intelligence, you know, there have been things built in like, okay, if I take a a photo of something, you know, um the OCR features would let me search, you know, um in in my photos and and pull up things that might have been in that text. Um, and so I can see that being useful. Maybe like again like it just feels like such a planned demo be like, "Oh, I'm gonna take this photo and then say add this to my calendar."
>> When I I think that the more likely thing would be to somebody to see, oh, this thing is on, you know, uh, June 8th. And instead, I would just like to speak to my assistant and say, "On June 8th, add, you know, this this to my calendar."
I think even if I did like run into a poster and decide I want to go to this event, I would at least like go to the website first anyway to make sure it's >> exactly >> see what it's about. I guess I'm never going to decide solely on the poster alone. But >> Right. Right. Exactly. And and in that case, it's like if I'm at the website, what I would really like would be for the website to have support where okay, once I've, you know, signed up or whatever, like it's going to send a thing to my calendar, right? or or or my calendar is going to automatically see, you know, the email, which already is a feature that that that exists now, and say, "Okay, we see that you you know, you have this. Can I add this, you know, to to your calendar for you?" Yeah, I'm with you. Like, that would be I'd much rather have the website have an easy way to like add it to my wallet, you know, or than than like, oh, I I see this great poster. I'm I'm definitely going to take this photo and and that's going to be my method of adding it to my calendar.
>> The problem with visual intelligence is that it's ephemeral. Like, yeah, I could, even if I wanted to do that, I could snap a snapshot of the poster with visual intelligence. But then if my friends are still walking down the sidewalk and I leave and then I don't know, something weird happens and it goes away, then I have to run back and take a picture. Like, I'm just going to take a picture in the room.
>> I'm just going to take the picture anyway, right? Because the picture is going to let me do the same thing. Um, and and yeah, I I think I think that's true. So, I think that where where it would make more sense would be if you have some sort of wearable device that has a camera on it that is always able to kind of capture things for that for that ephemererality that's maybe not your phone, right? So, I'm I'm walking by and I'm I'm wearing a pen or maybe I have something built into my headphones or whatever and I'm able to just kind of invoke from there. Okay, you know, capture this or or add this, you know, to my to-do list or something that I could see maybe being useful.
>> Or maybe if you know, visual intelligence is inside the camera, like taking it with visual intelligence also takes a picture at the same time.
>> Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that that'd be a thing, too, right? Like if it's also going to save it to your camera roll, maybe a different part of the camera roll, right? Maybe you don't want it to take up everything else, but maybe it's organized the the same way like screenshots are or whatever. Like you'd be like, "Okay, maybe there's a separate section that just says, you know, visual intelligence." I don't know.
>> All right. So, we have we have one more detail. Lewis, >> the uh the grammar stuff. Yeah. Uh so, that actually looks okay. I mean, they have a a interface here where has has the original thing that you wrote long hyphen time and then the suggested thing that they want you to change long time no hyphen. And it thankfully it spells out there that you you know this removes the hyphenation >> just in case you happen to figure that out on your own. But, uh, you know, okay, accept all suggestions. I guess I guess it starts to make sense if you have like a list of five things it wants to change in your, you know, email or whatever it is that it's checking. Uh, but the way it is right now, there's like, you know, radio buttons that you have to tap and say, so I guess if there's five and you say, "Okay, I want three." And you ex, you know, accept the one, you know, that selection of of things that you have. So, that could be fine. Although I got to say that particular screen looks a lot clunkier and less uh >> Mhm.
>> I just I don't know. It just looks very basic. Um >> the the current writing tool is how it already works which already kind of does this but it's only like a panel on like the lower half of the screen.
>> This fills the entire screen. So then you lose the context of what >> exactly you're writing, >> right? Which which which even in their suggestion like long dash time or long time that's completely context dependent on what that's going to be, right? like one of those like I mean there are stylistic choices there too, but they mean different things. And so I would I would prefer if you're going to show it at least the way that this render does if I had the full sentence and then you bolded or highlighted the word that you're wanting to change. But I would at least like to see like the, you know, the the full sentence so I can see the context because for grammar especially like that matters.
>> Yeah, that's that's a good point. I mean it is it's it feels strangely disconnected from the process of you know writing and editing. Uh so I don't know that that's the one thing that I look at these and it stands out as like h I don't know how much I like that but uh uh and I guess we should at some point say you know obviously this is you know based on reporting by German and leaks and whatever and he even says in this post obviously this could change. So, who knows? Maybe this is just uh the the first shot at this and maybe it'll actually look better. I do like the way that the camera editing tools look. You know, the smart editing stuff which you the AI editing stuff, >> clean up, which already exists, but then they're going to have extendrame.
>> You know, those might be awesome. You know, extend the picture. You know, like you got a picture of a uh I don't know, a house or something, but you didn't get the the bottom of it. you say, "Okay, extend it to get the bottom of the picture or reframe it so it gets a different uh, you know, part of the the frame." I I of all these things that to me like I could see this being working horribly cuz I've never been that excited by the cleanup. If you remember the very early days or people using it and you know, these horrible things happening and I don't use it hardly at all. I and I mean I guess or actually may like maybe never do I use it anymore and maybe it's gotten a lot better than it it was at the very beginning but uh you know I have other tools for editing images. I don't do it on my iPhone.
>> The example that they that they show here in this in this image is a photo of like a plant sitting on a table and a bunch of other plants and you know those are framed in front of like a wall with a bunch of shadows falling on it and they're shadows of plants so they're very complex shapes. This would not be easy to extend or reframe.
>> No, it wouldn't. But which is why like I I'm I'm I think it's it's notable that that is the example that they use. I bet that came my guess is that that came from reporting, you know, showing that that would be the exact sort of thing you'd want to show off in a demo scenario to be like this is how good it is is that you notice that these shadows exist in these places and that's a difficult thing to computationally recreate and reframe. Um I I to to Louis's point you know the the stuff that is ex existed before which was based you know on the the ondevice model I would agree like is not good. um Gemini which you know they're obviously you know doing their own controls and things on top of uh but you know that's if that's going to be powering this level of Siri and I don't know if it will or won't is a really really good large language model when it comes to to image like it's exceptional with image not just with creating images but with other stuff I mean and Google has frankly been ahead of the game on Apple with this sort of thing for a decade or more right and and I I I certainly don't expect that that suddenly like Siri's going to get all the capabilities of Google Photos like overnight because I I don't think that that's how that will work. But it does give me hope that maybe they would be able to not have it be terrible, right? Because there are those scenarios I think for a lot of people if it works well where yeah, okay, I just got the slightly off center and I want this to be refframed or I need to, you know, expand this a little bit because I I missed, you know, uh part of the the the side of this or that. And and these are, you know, tools like like, you know, Adobe has had like um you know, contentaware fill for for 15 16 years. It's not like this is new technology per se. It's just that the the way that LLM's work mean that you can be even more efficient and you can do even more of it uh more quickly. Um and potentially, you know, even account for for shadow stuff, which would be wild if if true. Um, but but I can see that that being the sort of feature that for like regular people who are just wanting to get the best photo of their family or, you know, their dog or whatever, be like, "Oh, yeah, you know, this was such a great shot, but now I've had to, you know, go into my tools and try to, you know, edit it and and and frame it in such a way, but now it's cropped in a in a different gulp position. Oh man, if only I'd had, you know, that that extra, you know, little bit of space um above or below or or to the side." To be able to do that, I think, would be really cool.
I mean, especially when you when you want a picture to be your lock screen.
Like the the the iPhone lock screen is a very weird shape. Yeah. Especially because like the upper, you know, 40 of it is taken up by the clock. Like unless you intentionally back up really far away as you're taking like a picture of somebody to leave like a lot of headroom above the photo, which would not make for a good composition, but that's how you have to make a good lock screen, >> you know? It's it's so true. And it's the same thing like when you look at like contact posters for people in contacts, right? And like it'll show you kind of like the post like it'll show you the photos that will look good um when when you're setting that like for yourself or something else and it's difficult to do that because it's just as you said it's just a weird ratio and so even for things like that I think it would be great. There there was a mention I think in the report of AI created wallpaper which whatever I mean that it just seems like such loweffort stuff but the only >> who loves image playground that much that they want to see it every time they get a notification or look at their phone. No, absolutely right. But but but but where I kind of go with that is okay, if you took kind of maybe that approach and you're saying, okay, maybe there's a way where we can to your point like take photos or think things you want and use Apple intelligence to um make it iPhone wallpaper ready, right? Like that would be I'm not going to lie, like if if you could do that in a way that was good enough, which it's your it's your iPhone's wallpaper. It doesn't have to be perfect. I think a lot of people would be really like, "Oh, okay. This this this foot of my of my baby now looks slightly better, you know, than than the weird crop job that I that I did before.
>> Yeah. Now it has three arms.
>> Yeah.
>> We've also got some details on AirPods.
No, no pictures for these. You'll just have to use your imaginations. But, uh, Apple continuously stuffs more and more features into the same menu that debuted with AirPods back in 2016. hearing aid mode, head gestures, spatial audio, conversation awareness. Each feature comes with its own toggle or submen, everybody's favorite part of a new feature, new settings. The result is a messy toggle filled screen that can be overwhelming. Uh, well, Mark German said in his newsletter that iOS 27 will introduce a more functional, better organized, and more streamlined experience, making it easier for iPhone users to toggle AirPods features on and off. The redesign should make its way to iPad OS and Mac OS 27 as well. You know, they have all these extra settings for these features, but then they also have like the control center settings where you can change the listening mode or you can turn conversation awareness on or off, but they only have like a few of the settings there. For the other ones, you have to go into the settings app and that's not easy to do, you know, at the in in the blink of an eye of, you know, you want to suddenly change something.
So, it sounds like they'll be they'll be redesigning that whole interface. I mean, the pairing interface as well. I like it was cool 10 years ago, but I don't need to see a giant thing slide up, take over the bottom half of my screen that says AirPods every time I put them in.
>> Right. No, exactly. I mean, it like like it was 10 years ago. It was it was frankly magical when you would open them up for the first time and and you would see, you know, kind of like that that thing come up and and now like, okay, it's not bad, but I'm like, okay, I've seen it once. I don't necessarily especially if you if you pair and unpair a lot which I I I don't know how common that is. Um I think most people probably have their you know devices uh connected most of the time but if you are ever in those situations where something is paired or unpaired a lot you're like okay that this animation is now not not the same thing that it used to be. Um, the other benefit, frankly, of changing how this looks is that it will take longer. I don't know how long it will take, but it will take longer for the the counterfeits to to copy this potentially, right? because that that's that's kind of the problem that's that's happened so far and this has been a thing I guess for the last 5 years or so is that you know people can get really screwed buying AirPods Max especially um because those are expensive and and they can make really good-looking you know fake boxes and then you you'll look at the headphones and they'll they'll seem good enough and you know you have them in a parking lot behind a store that you've met somebody from Craigslist or or eBay off of and and that little you know pair um animation comes up and you're Great. This is legit. It is not legit. You know, this is this is like a a very bad knockoff that you've now paid too much money for. And so, I don't know. I I don't I doubt that this that that had any, you know, play on them redesigning things. But maybe >> you're even more screwed if you buy authentic AirPods Max because then you spent $550 for that experience.
>> Don't even get me started cuz I've done that twice. So, don't even don't even get me like mistakes were made not doing it a third time. Um, and uh, but the uh, but yeah, but I mean, you know, I'm sure that that wasn't part of why they went into this, but that might be for a brief window. I have no doubt that someone will reverse engineer the setting screen and whatnot, but but for for a window of time, I think that'll make it harder for the the the non Airpods to to, you know, maybe appears themselves.
>> I'm honestly afraid to pair my AirPods with anything else because I don't want it I don't want it to be ruined. like they work they work great for me right now and I Bluetooth has burned me so bad that I I don't want to try connecting it to a switch or anything. In fact, what I want to do when I want to listen like both to a podcast and you know play video games is I put in the AirPods and then I have a separate pair of headphones that I put over top of them.
>> Oh my god. I've done the same thing.
Honestly, I've done the same thing and which is so dumb and and um and I do have uh but what I also do and this is also dumb but like I have number of pairs of AirPods. I have AirPods Max and then I have my Sonos headphones and I have some Sony's and other things and then it's just almost like I have like you know device determinant headphones.
Um and like when I travel especially I don't think AirPods Max are good travel headphones at all um for many many reasons. Um and you know that is when like but they are still remembered.
They're not not actively paired with my phone but like my phone remembers them.
Sometimes I have to go through the whole song and dance again. But it's usually one of those things where I'm like, "Okay, I can use this. I have the Airfly, you know, set up if I need to use it, you know, um, and on on the plane and and we're good." But yeah, I mean, it is it is kind of silly. Uh Apple really has nailed the their workarounds for Bluetooth so well that we're willing to either have them in our ears and then put other headphones on top of it to multitask or >> buy completely separate headphones that we're not pairing with our our you know just with our iPhone products just to avoid >> the Bluetooth pain.
>> It never got better than that.
>> Yeah, it's true. It's true.
>> You know, there's a lot of stuff in there. There's a lot of stuff that's like to it's fun, you know, a lot of features and fun and useful to to go in and change things. And lately, I've been uh experimenting with the hearing aid mode, which I put off doing for ever and ever. But I finally took the what it say like four minutes or something to do the little hearing test, which always makes my the hair on the back of my neck >> uh rise because I hate those hearing tests.
Start to notice the tinidis from years of rock and roll. Anyway, uh I so I' I've started using that a little bit and it is. By the way, if you haven't tried it, I mean, it's >> great.
>> It's freaking weird. It's It's like you're Spider-Man or something. You can hear things that you never heard. I I was in Ohio, like I said, uh and I was listening to a podcast or something and I forgotten to turn off that hearing aid mode and I I was lying in bed and and I with the AirPods with the hearing I was I heard this noise. I'm like, "What is that noise?" just little like, "Oh my god, that's rain." And I took that thing out and I couldn't hear at all.
>> Wow.
>> And uh, wow. I guess I do have some moderate hearing loss. Anyway, uh, but it's it's also I think it actually makes you hear things that like maybe normal people can't hear. I mean, it's it it feels like >> I was telling Griffin this, I feel like I'm on a like a in one of those videos where they're doing, you know, Foley jobs for a movie, you know, like every step is like a a creek that's not actually a shoe on a floor. It's like, you know, whatever it is to make it sound like a really impressive sounding shoe on a floor. Everything is it's like this hyper awareness. Um, so I I I just want to mention that if people have those things and they have any sort of, you know, hearing deficiency, hearing loss, it's a pretty great feature. It's pretty amazing. And I tried to uh on this last trip just, you know, like at uh, you know, going up to like rental car counters or something, right? Cuz I mean, I don't know if it's just me and it might just be my hearing loss, but I mean so many people these days are like, "Hi, to help you."
Worse yet, if they have like a a face mask on and they're doing, you know, it's just impossible to tell what people and and I find myself like angry old man like, "I'm sorry, what?
What? I can't hear you." So, uh, that helped. It's it's uh, you know, I slightly less angry.
>> Yeah. My my mom uses that that feature a lot and um because she's you know she gets her hearing tested every year and they say you know you don't need hearing aids um or whatever but she has you know some hearing loss but she knows that her hearing is not as good as it used to be and she already wears AirPods all the time anyway because she's always listening to podcasts like my mom literally has like three pairs of AirPods I'm not joking that she cycles through every day and then she sleeps in them too and then we'll get up in the middle of the night and we'll like change out like the AirPods and and it's it's a whole thing and smoking >> genuinely. Genuinely, she's she's with them all the time and but she uses the hearing aid mode more and more frequently and and um you know it's great for watching TV and for other stuff and yeah I mean even if you don't like I I can't take advantage of it because unfortunately like the hearing test is like oh no your hearing is is great. I'm like, that's awesome. But sometimes, you know, you would like to maybe, like you said, like you're you're at a rental car, you know, counter and um even if you have great hearing, that can be a scenario where there's a lot of noise happening coming from a lot of places. People might not be speaking super loud. Um and and you've got, you know, things coming in from other places. That's nice. But the the downside of all this, and I think this is kind of what like German had pointed out, is that they've added all these features to AirPods over the years, and it's just really difficult to find it, right? Like I I wonder how many more people would even be aware of like I think Apple's done a pretty good job um socializing the the hearing test feature, but like how many more people would be aware that yeah, this can actually now be used as a hearing aid um if it were a little bit easier to to manage the the settings. Um, and I think though the reporting also said, and this I think this goes to maybe your theory, uh, Griffin, about them not having a um, Apple or a separate Siri app is that, um, you know, apparently like they they've heard calls that people want a separate AirPods app, but a companion app and they're like, "No, we're going to keep it in in settings for now."
Which, I mean, fair enough. That's fine.
Um, as long as it's it's laid out better. I I think that's that's the biggest thing. you know, they have like an API where, you know, you can add a an AirPlay button to the bottom of your, you know, podcast or music app to to control your audio destination, um, an AirPlay if you want.
>> Maybe maybe they'll have like a um >> an a similar API for that to like evoke, you know, bring up AirPod settings because right now, I mean, you might not even know that you can do this like you have to bring up control center on the volume level thing and then you see the AirPod settings. But I mean, if that were like built, if they're redesigning this while they're at it, >> they build in like a system API where you can add in AirPod settings directly from Overcast. I mean, that would be excellent.
>> I have to I have to check. Can you do the hearing aid thing on off from the control center?
>> I don't think so.
>> I don't think you can for that.
Although, I wish that you could, but um but I'd have to check. But I wouldn't be surprised if they added that though, right? Like if you could turn that on or off that would be awesome because I frequently use that setting you you mentioned that. Yeah, I don't think a lot of people know it's in control center. If you you know tap and you press down and hold you can adjust the settings and you can say okay I want it you know to be um you know dynamic or do I want it to be you know noise cancelling or or whatever. And you can also you know change your volume and and other stuff. That would be I think fantastic if you could do the the hearing aid mode that way too. You know how it when you're setting up a custom control center, there's like the two special ones you can do that fill up a whole screen. Like you can make the connectivity widget full screen or the um >> what's the other one? Or the like the you know the smart home stuff I think is the other one.
>> Um maybe maybe that's how it'll work.
Like it'll be a control center screen that's like all AirPod settings.
>> See, I think that would be great. I would love that because already I have, you know, I'm I'm dealing with, you know, going into that setting area a lot. I would love that. And then if if and then at that point, I think if it was in control center, then it it should be shortcutable. And so then if you could like create an automation, right, where you could then maybe say turn on, you know, um hearing aid motor, turn on this or that, like that, that could be really cool.
>> And then it'll be Apple intelligenceable as well.
>> Yeah. There you go.
Christina, why don't you tell us about um not not the Apple car, but uh next best thing.
>> I was gonna say there's no Apple car, but Johnny IV did in fact design a car u or or at least worked on a car. So, um Ferrari officially pulled off uh the wraps off of a luch, I guess that's how you say it, which is it's its first ever all-electric vehicle. It's also their first five-seater and their first sedan.
And this uh um was uh designed or I guess worked on from um Love from which is the collective that Johnny IV does along with um Mark Newsen and and they work together on the Apple Watch and and I think uh you know the the trash can Mac Pro and Mark News has done a lot of other projects too. work together very closely. And so this came out and you know the the kind of the joke is like other than the color and the fact that it has like the the Ferrari badge like this does not look like a Ferrari which is kind of what and this was the article that you guys wrote on on cult of Mac kind of said that like the memes race to folk fun at Johnny Ives's new Ferrari Luché design because when you look at it and I'm not even a car person but you have an idea in your mind of like what is a Ferrari and then you look at this and you're like this is not a Ferrari.
Sorry. What is this?
>> The the memes are pretty hilarious. And oh my god, it's like the California or the Los Angeles mayor's race. There's so many AI like long AI videos like basically dragging Ferrari through the coals for this, you know, like h this horrible thing. You know, I can't even say what they say because they're pretty there's a lot of swearing, but uh you know, pretty hilarious stuff.
People did people did not react well.
There's I think Ferrari stock tanked like seven points that or 7% that day. I don't know if it's back up, but uh yeah.
Oh my god.
>> I got to say though, >> sorry. Go on.
>> I really like it.
>> I think it's a good car. Yeah. Like there's the jokes that um Oh, you know it it looks so much like the Nissan Leaf and like Yeah, sure. And like the grandmother accidentally buys you like a Fun Tendo Whiz instead of a Nintendo Wii kind of way. Like you don't have to be, you know, Doug Demiro car level expert to be able to tell a sports car apart from a midsized SUV. Like, yeah, they're the same color and I guess car- shaped, but I I think it looks good. It looks very distinctive. Like, it's got I didn't realize this until like I I really looked at the design for a little bit, but and you know, some some electric cars since they don't have like the engine under the hood, they have like the the frunk, you know, the empty sort of area. What they've done instead is they don't have a hood. It It's not like a solid piece in the front that's like a crumple zone. It's like imagine like a magic mouse how it's sort of like surfboard shaped. Uh it's like that all the way from the tip of the front bumper and then it's like a continuous glass piece that goes all the way to the tail and then they just have like an overhang that's hoodshapedish. It's like an illusion. I think it looks really cool.
>> It looks like a good place to for leaves to accumulate. Well, they would just they would just blow right through because there's nothing there's nothing there. I mean, >> yeah, there's nothing for really shape.
>> Yeah, it is. It because it kind of looks odd, right? Like you've got like this this whole kind of like top piece of glass which is which is essentially, you know, kind of kind of your your your roof and your hood thing that kind of then, you know, cascades into I guess like the the front of the car.
>> I mean, it's close. I mean, how do you make an electric car that's not just like I mean, the peak aerodynamic shape is just like a curve, like an egg, and nobody wants to drive an egg. Uh, you know, one of my favorite cars is the Honda IonX 6, but I like it because it looks so bizarre and weird. Uh, it has like that weird sloping sloping back.
Um, but you know what what they've done here is they they they have an illusion because like they have a thing in front that adds like an extra level, but it's like still equally aerodynamic.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I think they they claim that like it's the lowest drag coefficient in Ferrari history achieved through a styling, conversions, active air shutters, and ride height logic that lowers the front by 10 mm even while cruising. I mean, okay, you're spending $650,000 on the car. Let's also point that out. Um I I I I hope I hope you really en enjoy it. Um but no, it's it's an interesting it's an interesting design. It just it's it doesn't look like a Ferrari. At the same time, I'll defend them a little bit. Like this this is not a sports car. This is their first sedan. This is a five-seater. This is not the typical thing that you would have a Ferrari for. Does Ferrari need to have something that's not you know the typical sports car? That I'm not sure about. Um but you know that that that's that's an interesting challenge. I do think the interior at least the interior shots like it looks it looks great. I think the interior looks looks really fantastic. Oh yeah, it looks gorgeous.
You know, even the rear looks really good, too. It has sort of like those um uh Chevy Cobalt rear tail lights on where it's like the black panel with like the circle donut shaped lights in the middle. But I I think they're they're trying to evoke like the Ferrari F40 or the other ones that have like the circular tail lights. But >> I I've seen more Chevy Cobalts than I have Ferrari F40s. So that's what I think it looks like. But you know what?
I thought that was an attractive rear tail light design. uh you know where those cars are all like 20 years old now they're sort of disappearing from the roads but you know we we've got a Ferrari doing it now like it I think it's good look and the interior yeah it's it's gorgeous like they they've developed like a bunch of custom OLED displays that wrap like around and inside the physical controls that you still have like they wax poetic about how how precisely they've they've engineered these parts and focused on like the button feel and the switch feel of all of these things. Like one of the first cars I drove was like a 1991 Honda Accord. And like every single button switch was had like micro switches in it that had like a really good thunk and click feeling. Like I would just, you know, press a bunch of the AC buttons and like switch them all on and switch them all off like one at a time just so I could like press all of those buttons all in a row.
>> And you know what? Yeah, the buttons broke. Uh I have a new car, a newer car now that has more reliable buttons that haven't broken, but they don't feel as good. They're mushy. It's like pressing a calculator. Who wants to do that? I I I'd love to touch the buttons in that interior. They they look really nice.
>> No, I just say, did you see the video where Johnny IV was talking about touchscreens in cars and basically saying it's it's a horrible interface for a car. Fantastic for an iPhone, terrible for a car. He's absolutely right. I mean, anytime I've tried to use like CarPlay, like I I constantly like, well, I just want to, you know, >> fast forward the podcast for 60 seconds and am I going to die as I do it?
Because, you know, you're you got to look at the screen. And and frankly, I mean, that would be less troublesome if their touch targets were uh larger, >> but uh I thought it was interesting. He he went on and on about, you know, the the beautiful way that those those things you're talking about, the switches and all that and and yeah, I I think, you know, I think this car looks fine. If it was a $60,000 electric car, I'd be like, "Yeah, it's awesome."
$640,000,000.
But it's a Ferrari. I mean like we we look none I I don't think that there are many people who are kind of in our kind of audience who are the actual market for this car. I think it's like do you live in Dubai?
>> Um and and and and that that's kind of like your you know your plot thing. If the answer to that is no, then it's like you are not like the target for for for this car more than likely. But what happens with these sorts of things um is that you will see kind of the and this happens historically is that and you see this in racing too is that you see like the the things that start out kind of the high-end that the supercar market will trickle down into into other car designs too. And and I don't know if that's going to be a scenario that will happen here because it's not as if Ferrari is somehow breaking new ground by having an electric sedan. Like it's come on guys that that that's kind of been a known quantity for a long time now. Um but it is interesting I think to kind of see their approach at that and and yeah I I agree like I think that Johnny I was completely correct in talking about the importance of having physical controls in cars. That said, I also think that the way they are using screens in this interior is really smart, right? I think it's kind of the combination of the two things where you're expected at this point to have more screens that are probably going to be LED powered and not, you know, like like like physical, you know, like uh you know, mechanical um dials or whatnot. Um but if you can pair that with physical buttons, I think that maybe is is kind of the the best of both where you get things that can kind of be dynamically updated as as they need to.
Um, but also I'm not having to take my eyes off the road. I can, you know, scroll through something with a button or a knob. Um, and and also feel more confident in what I'm doing rather than, um, okay, now I'm playing the iPad, you know, as I'm driving. You're like, "Okay, well, no wonder you're you're getting in a car accident." because like it it is sort of weird that it is illegal in most states um in the United States anyway to like be on your phone or have your phone in your hand um while you're driving, but it's completely fine to be interacting with the giant iPad that is in in in the front of of of your Tesla or you know any other modern car at this point. Like that's completely fine, but oh no, if you got if if you got the phone in your hand, you're going to get a ticket and points on your license. The worst part about a screen is that you can't like rest your finger on a button and wait to press it, right?
Like as soon as your your finger touches it, it it immediately activates. So like you have to be extremely precise. You can't even if you know where all the buttons are, like you're I mean you're driving down the road if it's a bumpy road, like your finger's like bouncing around. Like it's not a precision instrument.
>> Yeah. You got to like rest another finger on like a dead spot of the screen and like to like make sure you can align it up right. Like in in this Ferrari there are all of the there are the screens but then under each like thing that you might adjust like air speed or temperature it's got it has a physical switch underneath it and you can use either.
>> Um I mean in terms of the price like yeah $640,000 that's an insane amount of money but >> you know that's not like the cheapest Ferrari like there are cheaper Ferraris that are in like the $200,000 range but maybe this will eventually get there.
>> Maybe. I mean usually I think Ferraris to start in kind of the 300,000 range and you have to be on a waiting list.
So, even if the the list price is a certain thing, I looked into this a long time ago, so if I'm wrong, listeners, I apologize. Um, but I think typically how it works is like you've got to be on a waiting list >> and and many times those lists are years long and so people will spend more money or dealers will spend more money to to get people off of lists faster. But yeah, I mean, this is obviously you could get a Ferrari for less money, you know, spend only $300,000 on a supercar.
Um, I mean, and I feel like this is part of part part of the reason for this price is this is the first sedan, right?
This is the first like one that they're kind of doing. But yeah, there's there's nothing to be said that you might not see these kind of, you know, design features or motifs be um, adopted or or, you know, inspired by, you know, future, you know, car makers who are maybe, you know, selling $100,000 cars instead.
>> It's the same thing that that works with Apple. like this is the first time they had to develop an electric drivetrain from scratch. You know, the first time Apple like redesigns a MacBook Pro, that one's that one's going to be more expensive. They raise the price for that and then it the prices go down over time and the features trickle down to the cheaper models.
>> So, how how do the specs uh check out?
You're a car freak, Griffin. Did you see this?
>> 122 kilowatt hour battery. That's that's like standard for a big battery that the Tesla Model S has had like 100 kilowatt hour batteries I think going on like 10 years now. You're you're really limited by like volume and space. Like cars are only so big. That's about as big as you can fit a battery underneath a car unless you make it like extremely long like a limousine. Um that's pretty standard. Four electric motors, like one motor per wheel. That's something that you only really see on like highest performance ridiculous supercars. You know, it's usually one motor in the rear or if you if you want to go ridiculous, you have one in the front and in the back for performance models. Four motors is like that supercar territory. 0 to 62 miles per hour in 2 and a half seconds.
I know I think some Teslas are down to like 1.9 seconds, but those don't have a Ferrari badge on the front. Yeah. And and those don't have any physical controls. So, >> yeah, I I bet you that those physical controls are something else. I mean, I would like to just sit in one of these if somebody would ever let me into one just to, you know, see what it feels like to shift the gear or turn the, you know, volume on the on the radio.
>> I mean, here in San Francisco, you can pretend to be rich and just go to a dealership.
>> Yeah. Go to a dealership.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. 192 m per hour top speed. Uh, that's that's pretty high. Not a lot of Teslas go that fast. 320 mi 9 mile range. I bet you don't go that far if you're going 192 miles per hour.
>> No, but you know what? Like you don't get that sort of range like in a regular Ferrari, like a gas powered Ferrari.
Like they they have like >> also true >> awful terrible gas mileage. So I feel like I mean this is slightly different because again like it's it's a sedan. So it's not necessarily like a a a supercar type of experience even though it was priced like one. But, you know, that I think is the interesting balance that they have to strike here is like, okay, how do we have a a big enough battery that will, you know, power this for what we want, but how fast do we go even though it maybe isn't as fast as our topline um cars, you know?
>> Battery drain 1% every second, >> right? That's the thing, right? like that that that I mean because because that would literally I mean that's been one of the things um I think correct me if I'm wrong on this that has kind of really held back uh kind of the the higher end kind of manufacturers from going into electric is the fact that the power that would be required to you know from from from electric to you know do a lot of the things they do just you're you're you know you're you're there's just not a battery big enough and the space constraints maybe if we had a different type of of material maybe if we weren't using lithium ion we were using you know nuclear or maybe that would be different, right? But but but putting a different energy, you know, thing thing aside, there are just like some like hard limits there. So >> I feel like from an engineering perspective, it's impressive that they're able to kind of fit all of this in this type of, you know, size car with these types of features.
>> Unlike a gas car, it can control each of those motors incredibly fast. It says that it updates the actuation 200 times per second. So, you know, this is the car you want to be in. if you're you're driving over icy roads, you know, I mean, the traction control is insane on electric cars. Um, each wheel has independent torque vectoring, active suspension control, independent steering on the rear axle. Uh, they said for the noise, you know, some of the some some of the traditional car companies moving into electric cars for the first time, like Dodge, they'll give you like a fake V8 sound. Uh but in a very Johnny Iive way they say a precision accelerometer mounted at the center of the rear axle captures the actual vibration of the rotating electric components. That signal is filtered, equalized and amplified, working like an electric guitars amplifier. The result is a sound rooted in the real physics of the machinery, not synthesized. Ferrari spent 5 years and 40,000 km of dedicated testing developing it. That's I mean you can see you can just imagine Johnny IV reading that aloud hear his voice.
>> I was going to say I I can hear it too.
No, it's it's uh it's incredible.
>> Christina, last time you were on I think you were you you're on medical leave.
>> I was on medical leave. Yeah, I I had had surgery um only a couple of weeks I think uh prior to that and so I'm now back from medical leave. So, yay.
>> Had you already started on at GitHub before that?
>> I had I had um Yeah, I'd I'd already started back at GitHub. So, long story short, my background is that I used to be a journalist, then I went into um engineering, and um I was at Microsoft, then I was at GitHub, then I was at Google Deep Mind, and now I'm back at GitHub.
>> So, now now you're back there again full-time. How how long have you been back?
>> Um I guess I've been back from medical leave since for about a month and for about six weeks now, I guess.
>> Okay. Uh lot of get that that's been a busy busy month and a half, has it?
>> It's been a real busy month, month and a half. I don't know. We've been in the news a little bit. I don't know if you've seen it, but yeah. I know a lot of people are using GitHub and which is great but can also uh can also lead to some problems as uh as as you know any anytime you have your your you know traffic volume you know ramp up 15 times um you know unexpectedly uh that that can that can lead to some lead to some uh performance and and rel reliability issues which the team is like very much dedicated and and trying to you know improve and and and get under control.
I'm I'm sure this is very low on your list of priorities, but my my personal website is hosted on GitHub pages.
>> Yeah.
>> As a matter of fact, uh is that at risk if >> I don't think so. No, look, we we we use GitHub pages all the time too, right?
Like obviously if if there are performance like issues where you know something goes down like GitHub pages can also be one of the services that can go down. But no, I mean like get get it's it's uh we're actively working on trying to improve the reliability of the site all the time and um >> here first the the the three readers of my blog extraordinary will be we'll be happy with that.
>> Well no but continue to use GitHub pages because it's it's a great resource. I mean and honestly it is and it's one of those things that um I mean but but we've seen tremendous amount of of usage of GitHub page we've seen tremendous amount of usage of everything basically since um end of November. Basically the the longest story short of it is that the capabilities of the frontier models changed in a very important way um where like the the claude and the the open AI models got really really good in ways that they weren't before and so you started seeing agenta capabilities that you know had kind of been talked about as types of things that executives like brag about oh this will change this and that to actually being like oh no this is actually good enough um now um for um a lot use cases. And what happens with that is that when things are really good, people use them a lot. And where do people tend to store their source code? GitHub. Where do people tend to deploy their code? GitHub. And so if you have like this kind of ramp up in model capabilities, ramp up and more and more people using the models because they've become so good, more and more people, you know, exploring coding for the first time because now they can get really good results from um, you know, their own steering. Even people who had been professional developers who might not have been buying into the AI uh uh hype around like the productivity gains you could you could get are now going, "Oh, okay. Now the cap the capabilities are actually good enough that I would use this and and and would um you know, let let this do work for me." More and more people are going to be building things more than ever before. And I'm sure that you've seen that just in the the number I mean Apple's even seen this like the the app store review times have gone through the roof. And that's not just because of Vibe coding, but that's definitely part of it is that more and more people now have easier ways to build apps that are are performant and are good and and there is I think some for some people a little bit of kind of a derogatory uh kind of a you know association with hearing the term vibe coding but at this point I don't know any professional developer. I know there are people who are out there, but I I personally don't know anyone who is not using AI um you know assistance in in their tooling of some sort um or or agents in some way and and it's it's just part of how things are built. And and what that does though is that obviously the the AI can go much faster than you know a human would. And so you have like a we have a you know slew of new Mac and iOS apps that are available from people who might have great ideas and and would say okay well this was something I wanted to build but it would take me you know six months to a year and as a side project and now they're like okay I can do this in an afternoon and then continue to iterate and refine it um and and and ship it. So right now a lot of that cost is amortized because all of these AI company every single AI company is losing money I think sometimes by a ratio of like 20 to1. Uh >> if the how do you see that going forward because obviously it's an untenable situation. OpenAI can't keep burning money forever. Uh if if they were fairly priced, how do you see the economics of that changing? Like would these products still be good enough that people would spend 20 times more on it just for the same thing? Well, and I think that's actually kind of what we're seeing right now. I mean, this was an instance that we we've had at at GitHub. We have a product called GitHub Copilot, which was one of the very first AI, you know, coding assistant products, and it also, you know, works similarly to the way that Cloud Code um or or OpenAI Codox does. Um, but you can choose your AI models. So, like it's not like you can use either either model actually or you can even use models from other providers too um with it. And we'd had kind of a a flat pricing where you get a certain number of requests for a certain amount of money a month. Um, and we've had to uh to to change that. And we had to change that just because the a it was difficult for us because again as the model capabilities increased. Our own costs went through the roof in terms of like what we would pay for requests from the model providers went way up.
>> People can ask for more complex questions.
>> Right. Exactly. because it used to be one of those things where you'd be like, "Oh, okay. Well, a request will cost about this many tokens and tokens are how the um the you know um AI kind of economy is is kind of mediated." That changed when suddenly your cost could be okay. Well, it could be this many tokens or it could be this many and and some of the newer models also use a lot more tokens and and can um also store more context and more information about your codebase, which means it's going to potentially cost more. And so we've moved from you know like kind of a flat like um you know fee to usage based billing which is where the rest of the industry has moved unless you're in the consumer space like uh I think Cloud Code uh for Cloud Code Max and and uh Codeex like they still subsidize for their individual users if you pay $100 a month or $200 a month you might get more than $200 a month in in you know actual usage. But if you're a business Yeah. uh what you've seen happen from from all the major providers and and that includes GitHub is that we're moving to these usage based models. Now, what will that mean for how people will use these tools? That's what we're figuring out.
And I think that there will be some circumstances where you'll go, okay, you know what, the results are still good enough and I'm still so much more productive that it's worth me paying whatever this costs because this is so good. But I think in some scenarios it becomes okay well maybe I don't need to use the latest greatest most high-end cutting edge frontier model that costs a bajillion dollars. Maybe I can use something else or maybe I can even use local models for for certain types of tasks right which is I think really great and this is where you know um Apple silicon is is really ahead of the pack and in some regards because of its unified memory and because of the fact that so many people so many developers use Macs. there's good tooling built in.
Um, which I never thought I would say for AI. Um, that AI has always kind of been the home of like like Windows and to a lesser degree Linux. That's where the development has always happened historically. Um, it's always been NVIDIA chips and NVIDIA's programming interface and um, and now that's, you know, uh, changing um, with with with Apple Silicon and with the tooling that's happened in the last few years.
you can do a lot with local models using you know things like LM Studio or Olama and other applications on your Mac and you can even integrate that into you know your your um coding applications and so I think what we'll see is a mix because you're right I don't think that these labs can continue to subsidize these things forever but the question will become okay so this is giving me great results and this is doing so much for me is it so much better that I'm that I can afford to spend what this is costing or am I just going to maybe go back to you know using humans for some things maybe using um less expensive models right I mean that that is kind of the irony is I think people are looking at the cost and going okay I can just pay a person to do this >> the problem is at least is what I personally run into is in the last you know six months like you become addicted to the speed you become addicted to how much more you can accomplish and I sometimes have to kind of set myself out of it and go no I don't have to use AI for this. I can actually do this, you know, myself, too. Maybe it takes longer, but I can get a result and it's it's going to be just as good or maybe in some cases better. Um, I think it just comes down to expectations. But yeah, I think that that's going to be the challenge that a lot of businesses really face over the next year is okay, we know that our developers finally are liking and using these tools. How do we manage the costs and maybe how do we find like the right balance of like what models we use for certain purposes? And I really do feel like like local um um models um have a great opportunity here.
The one caveat is that as all the money, you know, that's being spent on data centers happens, all the RAM, all the, you know, uh SSDs, everything is going into that. And so, you know, it's more expensive than ever before to buy a really beefy, you know, laptop or or or Mac mini. We can't even get, you know, Mac minis anymore. Um, and and like that would be a great, you know, maybe machine like the the Mac studios that have the highest brand capacities were the first ones that they cut. They were like, "No, no, no. We're not going to sell those anymore."
Um and and so you know like it it's kind of like this this I guess at least until something either more capacity breaks or there's some other sort of change there's just kind of this tension where it's like okay everybody wants more compute and we're still constrained by those things and as a result the prices are what the prices are.
>> Everybody everybody benefits from more efficient models. I mean the the data center has become less expensive now that the game is disappearing from the world like those won't need as much and it'll power like I mean I think pretty powerful things like if you can run all these things on device then you know I mean suddenly it's a software issue where Apple the main limiting factor is Apple just doesn't let you build apps directly on an iPhone and iPad >> right no absolutely absolutely and I will say this too you know the prices of the models right now are really high and that is ah historic usually the prices go down these have gone But I will say like if you look and granted we only have about five years of data, but if you look at kind of what the progression has been, you know, they tend to the capabilities of the higherend models do tend to kind of trickle down. And so I'm hoping that we'll see that. There are also some models like DeepSeek, you know, um which uh their pricing is very very competitive. their capabilities are not going to be as good as what you would get from the highest end, you know, models from OpenAI or um uh anthropic, but it the the pricing is is is very efficient. Now, there are I know people have their own kind of concerns geopolitically about that, but those models can be run on um you know uh you don't have to get them directly from deepseek. They can be hosted on other you know like American or or European um you know cloud hosts too. And I think that that's that's also interesting to see that there's like almost the these kind of two kind of waring like factions where you have the major frontier labs that are getting, you know, more and more powerful but more and more expensive and then you do have like the Chinese labs that are doing some really interesting things with efficiency and and with price.
>> I could pick your brain on this for another hour but I know you've got to get going. You've got a you've got a real job on >> Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. So, uh, uh, it's not WWDC, but Microsoft Build is, uh, is next week. And there will obviously be a lot of AI stuff, and there might even be some, you know, um, there's going to be definitely some GitHub stuff, too. So, that's that's why I have to unfortunately, uh, depart because I have to have to go to a meeting for that. But, >> imagine you've got things you've got a busy schedule. So, I guess if if you'd like more Christina Warren, uh, you can find her on Mastadon and Blue Sky at Filmgirl and on the Mac Break Weekly podcast uh, and at GitHub. Yeah, >> people can find you. I don't know. Just walk over to the GitHub headquarters, knock on your door.
>> You could. Yeah. Or I'm film girl on GitHub. I'm on film girl. One word on on on on um Blue Sky and GitHub. Film_girl on Twitter and uh Mastadon. I know it's confusing. This is my bad. Um I again like I didn't know when I created my handle in high school that this would be my professional identity. Mistakes were maybe made. I don't know. But yeah. I know. But if but but I think if you Google film girl, you'll you'll find most of those most of my things. I think even like a christina.dev is a ancillary website that I have set up. Um and I need to add more things to it. And yeah, I'm uh I'm on Mac break weekly every Tuesday.
>> Okay, you heard that, Mom. Text us on iMessage at [email protected] to send in questions, comments, and feedback for the show. You can send an audio message or a short video for us to play, too. Thank you all for listening, for watching. We will see you all next time. Have a great weekend. See you.
>> Bye.
>> Computers.
>> They were a mistake.
>> There's It's a bicycle for the mind.
>> Exactly.
>> There's the curb.
>> Then what's the what's the tandem bicycle for the mind?
>> Oh god. That's the Vision Pro, isn't it?
Because you've got to be connected to the battery pack and everything.
>> I think you're right. Yeah. I don't know why they why they call it a spatial computer and not a tandem bicycle for the wow. Is this the first time German has ever done mock-ups like this based on his >> I was trying to think that. I I don't think it's common. I think he's done it like once before, but not He didn't make like a big feature out of it.
>> Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. It just, as people say, it just hits different.
>> It really does. I mean, I wonder if Apple's going to go after him.
>> Well, it doesn't look like Well, they're also Yeah. As Bloomberg, they're not going to go after Bloomberg, but they're crediting illustration 731. So, I wonder if they used like a if another, you know, party illustrated that for them because that's who the credits are to.
>> Well, uh, AI told me that that is Bloomberg's in-house design.
>> Oh, amazing. Okay, great. Even better.
All right, that Okay. Yeah.
>> Uh, because they're located at 731 Lexington.
>> Oh, that's right. They are. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've I've been I've been to the Bloomberg offices a number of times. They uh they have a really great cereal bar.
>> Oh yeah.
>> No, genuinely. Genuinely. Yeah.
Genuinely like like um in in like uh one of the the main kind of prominent things because I I used to go on Bloomberg quite a lot and I would love like when I would leave doing especially an early morning hit, they'd have like this massive cereal bar that was just kind of you know take what you want of like every type of cereal you could imagine, every type of milk you could imagine.
You're just like okay cool.
>> Rat milk just like on the Simpsons.
>> Mulch. Mulch. Milk. Milk is what they have now. Now, now now with like vitamin in or whatever it was on the Simpsons, but yeah, Rat Milk. Exactly.
>> I like the Do they Do they have like the Moltome Meal like knockoff uh cereals as well if you prefer the knockoff instead of the original?
>> You know, I don't know. I I because I I have a feeling they were probably all the the brand names, but they weren't they were it was kind of like in college where like they're in like kind of the dispensers. So I >> it's not the same, but it doesn't come out of a bag, >> right? Well, yeah, but but but it's much easier, you know, to to pour it into a bowl or or a cup, right? Because that was the thing, too, is like you could have it to go, right? And so many times I would like have like, you know, um like, okay, I've got to get back, you know, um lower um uh Manhattan, so I'm just going to stop on the floor, grab myself a little um cup full of uh you know, Cheerios or something and some milk.
>> Frosted mini spooners.
>> Correct. And then just be like and and now I'm going to get on the subway and and go a few stops. But yeah, I mean >> we could not I mean look I think between that and like the Bloomberg terminal access I was like oh I this would be an okay place to to to work. Um clearly my standards are very low, but yeah.
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