Who Were the Real Heroes of Pakistan's Nuclear Program? | A Leaf in a History

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[00:00:00]Now I am become death district India conducted three underground nuclear tests in the pond Pakistan today successfully conducted five nuclear tests Neither will bells ring in temples nor will grass grow nor will birds fly You have done the blast, we are going to do the blast. The economic pressures were not relevant at that time. We had to manage with someone or the other because nuclear capability is the most important priority for us, so General Jahangir Karamat was sitting on one side of the table and I was sitting on this side, so Nawaz Sharif asked him, General Sahib, what do you want to do, he said the same thing which he always used to say that it is your decision, we are ready. The complete brigade was deployed and ground action could not have taken place. It did not make any difference to them as they continued doing surveillance.

[00:00:51]When India carried out five blasts in a very large number. There was too much public pressure on Pakistan.

[00:00:58]By 1984, we had all these things ready.

[00:01:03]From 84 to 98 we just kept waiting.

[00:01:09]Work had started in some barracks in Chakala, like research libraries in nuclear engineering.

[00:01:11]This is one element of Pakistan policy that is never ever for compromise.

[00:01:18]So Bhutto had duly said as Prime Minister. There will be no audit of this.

[00:01:21]No one will ask about this.

[00:01:23]We didn't want to test. It would have been better if we had left it to people's guessing. When the mountain started to erupt, they ran away from there.

[00:01:33]They ran away from there so that the radiation does not reach anywhere. So the system to move them was already present there.

[00:01:41][Music] I remember there were balloons from the Army and a whole umbrella made of surface-to-air missiles, and even our offices did n't have windows like that. There used to be a stone wall outside our window because at that time Israel was very afraid of India. At that time we had heard that Israel etc. were trying to destroy Kahuta. There have been a couple of attempts as well. We have also seen ships coming and going in front of us.

[00:02:16]India was planning to attack in 1984, then they decided to do the exercise in 1986, they are all well recorded, yes, so India actually got the idea after the Israeli attack on the plant, in that thought you know they can emulate and do the same to go, so they decided to have a special project in that combat school, that was actually the project incharge was Jan Sundar ji himself, left General Three Stop, we had found a small sensor, it was installed on the road of Kuta, from which every truck used to come and go, they used to get signals on satellite, how much enriched uranium was there, when General Jalal was the President, the Americans, the CIA [sound of clearing throat] tried to find out to what percentage these people had reached. Then President Zia called the American Ambassador and told him everything about the activities you people were doing. And the French also had a role in this. were mixed with the Americans. We have neutral capacity.

[00:03:23]Thank God that we never compromised and not only that the government also did not compromise. The entire community was ready for this. That if six people are working in the same building. The six of them did not know what each other was doing. He kept a big secret. Therefore, there was not much regularity that A did not know what B was doing, B did not know what C was doing, how far success had reached.

[00:03:46]Who did it when they arrived?

[00:03:48]Earlier also there was a lot of pressure on us from foreign governments, especially from Europe and America. So these people were very afraid that something might happen, something might happen. He used to keep everything secret. So he did the cold test secretly also.

[00:04:02]Some of them worked at NASA, some worked somewhere, some worked. And some people who were working in big factories in America, England and France, they brought people from there for their work, so those scientists and engineers who had come from outside were naturally under their supervision, one reason for the computer would be that it was close to the capital and I have heard that initially they had selected Chakwal as its site but then he got away from the decision making. So when we used to go from here, it used to take us about 40 minutes to reach there. That area was such that if you built a road and took it inside, the distance between one hill and another was approximately 50 feet. It was 50 to 55 feet.

[00:05:01]And after that this hill started rising like a cup.

[00:05:06]He had tried the aeroplane and observed that when it dived in that area, after diving, it would rise and hit the mountain. The Kahuda project was started by the Atomic Energy people during Bhutto's time. And the team that was there earlier all came from Atomic Energy. Call him a scientist, call him an engineer. Later, when this site was selected, Kahuta, which we call Kahuta, then this entire setup was installed 100% under the supervision of Dr. Yakeen Khan, which I call 36 factories.

[00:05:37]Kahuta was selected as a laboratory for uranium energy enrichment. Rest of the places, as I told you, were there and here and there and that was defence because of the hills there, that site was selected for defence.

[00:05:53]And they demand from Nawaz Sharif, the government of Pakistan that they are Hindus, the slogan Takbir Allahu Akbar, the discussion that was going on in the public and in the newspapers as to whether it is happening or not, all these were emotions and Nawaz Sharif sahib knew that I have to do it, let the people say whatever they want to say, I and one or two other members were saying that America is offering us economic aid. Is it offering security guarantee or not? If there is no security guarantee and India is taking advantage of this and our conventional imbalance is there, then what is the benefit to us? Then that cannot happen. There were economic pressures. They were not relevant at that time. We had to survive somehow. Because nuclear capability was the most important priority for us. So he came under pressure and said that we could not compromise.

[00:06:52]So I said, now that I have got the chance, I will have to do it.

[00:06:54]I insisted a lot and I still remember that I was again told that look, you will have to pay a lot economically. I said, there is no price for freedom and your existence. It was the army that had made all the arrangements for the nuclear explosion. He was the one running the entire program. So for this reason, it is important to be confident that they are not carrying out nuclear explosions.

[00:07:24]He had spread a false rumour of the people, just like politicians always do. However, at that time, all three service chiefs, especially General Jahangir, had said that we are ready. Whatever you decide, we are ready. But just think about what is going to happen in future and the consequences of this decision of yours.

[00:07:45]I rather advised the Prime Minister to do this before we take any decision. We should take China into confidence and just tell them that we are going to do this and if we face any pressure after our tests, China will have to support us.

[00:08:05]He also appealed to us in the same way as our Service Chief was appealing to the Prime Minister.

[00:08:10]China also said the same thing that you should consider that there will be a lot of pressure on you.

[00:08:16]You will have to pay a heavy price.

[00:08:19]But you have to decide for yourself. That means he did not want to say that you should do as per our instructions but you should take the decision. If you decide to do so, we will do whatever we can to help you. India's tests were held on 11 and 13 May.

[00:08:36]No one remembered the Salamati Council. But on the day we conducted the tests on May 28 and May 30, an emergency meeting of the Salamati Council was called on June 6 to condemn the tests. That means the world got upset with our tests.

[00:08:51]He felt as if he had got some sweetness from the tastes of India.

[00:09:07]17 You can say starting from 6 PM on May 11 onwards till 20th of May and 30th May, this was totally a military program, a total program executed as a complete military operation program including the scientific community and the military.

[00:09:25]What I was informed about and I had also reported on this was that consultations were definitely going on from the government's side but an alert was also issued in the lab or where it was obviously an installation, this is not something that can be lifted and carried like this, they were informed there, but our delivery system was tested in April because the nuclear bomb would not have to be delivered by just carrying it, it would have been delivered [sound of clearing throat] on a missile, so our missile test was successful in April 98, we did a big job with the Air Force, how to place this inside an airplane, it is very difficult to place such a dangerous thing inside an airplane, now the airplane was not made like that, our F16, that was inside the F16 There was no space to keep it, then our Air Force did the neutralization program, taking the bomb to the basement, preparing it, testing it, it would take days and days and to tell you the truth, we did not have the assurance that we could test it in such a hurry in 15 days, we were under time pressure.

[00:10:32]Then we also had the pressure of when someone like Osira would attack. No one should attack us. No one should attack our side and kill us.

[00:10:39]I had a few sources, a few of them, who told me that this thing was going to happen somewhere in Buchistan. Regarding when it will happen, what will happen, what will be the time, that was very secret. And only two people knew about it and one is the Prime Minister, it is said that he was aware of it, the Army Chief and the Doctor Sahib were aware of it. I was in Kota, one of my brigades, from there I sent it under the orders of GHQ and the entire area around the testing sites was covered so that no one could go to that area, there would be no interference, no ground action could be taken to sabotage this testing, at that time it is said that President Clinton of USA also called him and his satellites were moving above to see how our movement was. So our scientists had calculated that their satellite which is to come to our Kota side or Chagi side, has to come at this time. So, they used to do this at that time, they did not move our trucks etc., of the military or of our scientists, but when he was away from the camera, then our movement was a challenge for us only that they should not intercept this program and no one should attack us. wa security was done air force navy everybody was on full alert this was almost infull aapka aap kahle ke ek undeclared sea emergency thi military wite security me kaam every unit pura kota puri alert air force was alert c word you were alert aapke i and puro khul hue the is Pakistan going to test its new clear device we don't want to blindly follow the path of the Indians and they have tested a bomb again after 24 years and Pakistan has never done so we never wanted to do so but the present test of India has really shaken the balance of power in this region and we now have legitimate security concerns. At 12:00 on the night of the 27th, I received a call from the GHQ, it was the DG Military Operations. He told me that Sir, we have just received intelligence reports that Indian and Israeli squadrons are standing at such and such airport in India and they are preparing to attack Pakistan's nuclear installation which is in Buchistan.

[00:13:22]So I called the Indian High Commissioner right then and there at 1:00 in the night.

[00:13:28]His name was Satish Chandra. I called him and told him that I have received this news. So I want you to check with your government that if there is any such misadventure then convey this message from my side to our side that we are also fully deployed. So after that, after the Indian High Commissioner, I called another ambassador, the Chinese Ambassador, at 1:00 in the night. So I told him that we had received this news and I knew that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu was in Beijing at that time. [Music] I said I would like you to tell your government that even if Netan Yau has to be woken up if he is sleeping, he should be checked to see how genuine this is. And then I summoned the American Ambassador.

[00:14:14]I told him that if this is the case then you should check it. Then I called Cofianan. The Chief of Staff in his office was Pakistani Iqbal Raza. I spoke to him myself and told him to bring this to the notice of Kofnan. Then I called our ambassador in New York Ahmed Kamal. I told him to go live on CNN and say on CNN that Pakistan has received information that India and Israel are going to attack Pakistan.

[00:14:44]My ambassador spoke there live on CNN and it had a good impact. There was an impact because if India and Israel had made any such plan, then by morning that plan was over. The only way to restore the balance of state in the region of South Asia was through deterrence and a decision which would be visible and which would send a clear message to India not to embarrass any actions which would be reclusive of the type they were promising to take in Kashmir and against Pakistan itself.

[00:15:24][Music] Their first setup was 25 km away.

[00:15:35]From there, they had to drop the bomb. So, they saw a mountain right there. When they dropped the first device, it caught fire or turned red or turned into a blazing fire. So, they ran away from there, fearing that the mountain might explode and radiation would come out, and they would die. All the scientists, army personnel, and a large number of scientists, all the scientists of atomic energy, all the scientists of KL, all the scientists were present there, all the scientists, went there and from a distance, they saw it together. I was in quite a while at that time, but my brigade was there, I was getting news that What is happening, how is it happening, the brown type mountains were absolutely happy, there was no greenery there for miles around, when it got blasted again, its colour became a little sulphur type yellow colour like mustard colour.

[00:16:29]This kind of yellowish type had happened.

[00:16:32]But that was a very big mountain. There were no small mountains.

[00:16:34]That was Hajj, it shook the entire mountain.

[00:16:36]That blast was so powerful. So we got time to watch it from a distance.

[00:16:41]Nearly they didn't let us go because unless they wore a big secure dress. There he said that the dangers of exploitation were there even at that time. The mountains here are not so solid. Therefore the mountains of Balochistan were chosen. He's a bit rock solid. If there were mountains here, the mountains would have been blown away. So the mountains there did not fly away. But you noticed that a yellow in it changed its color. After that smoke came out of it. There are two types of tests. This is not an open air test. Radiation then spreads in it.

[00:17:12]So such mountains are taken underground so that the nuclear radiation does not come out. So, that remote area was also from the public, so from that safety point of view, this Chaagi had been selected in 80 and the trench had been built.

[00:17:34]Today we have settled the score for the nuclear experiments that India conducted in the past.

[00:17:39]And five successful nuclear experiments have been conducted.

[00:17:44]What does Pakistan mean? La ilaha illallah slogan Takbir Allahu Akbar our people were very happy, we strengthened our position with the conventional war of India, we neither have the economy nor the conditions, we cannot have a conventional war, we have not kept this for firecrackers and whatever sacrifice has to be made for this, we are ready to give all kinds of funds. Even if we die of hunger.

[00:18:18]Pakistan did a great job by carrying out the Adami blast and once again every child of India went to sleep. When we conducted the tests, not only did a new wave of happiness spread among the people but our community also got the assurance that now we are not facing any threat from India. Now that we have responded positively to the Indian arms race that when they got nuclear we also developed nuclear capability even our program is for peaceful purpose but we don't lose sight of the fact that we have the nuclear capability that if the country so decides if there is a political desire and a decision then we can go nuclear in a very short span of time by failing to exercise and responding to the Indian test Pakistan lost truly priceless opportunity to blast in 88 was not an easy task.

[00:19:19]I am saying easy task because for the first time in the world you, obviously Russia, America and others, had nuclear capability. For the first time you were going to tell them about your strength that this is not a dream for us.

[00:19:36]He has a proper existence.

[00:19:39]Because if we had not done the test, then obviously such a situation would have arisen in India that it would have become difficult for us and when we got the package of 5 billion dollars, there would have been such a condition in it that we should do road back and what else should we do and we should continue working on road back even later. If any country shows you a great technology, like India conducted nuclear tests and told you that we are a nuclear power, then if you had not done it after two-three weeks, then the whole world would have come to know that you are not equal to them. You are not capable of matching them or defending yourself. In the second year, Mr. Bhutto made a deal to purchase a nuclear repair plant from France. The Atomic Energy Commission of Pakistan was formed in 1956 and in 1961 Dr. IS Usmani Sahib was a PhD in Atomic Physics but he was also a bureaucrat, he was in the Indian Service and he was a very good administrator of Pakistan. He again became the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission in 1976. It was a true triangle of Pakistan Atomic Energy Chairman Asmani Misterani and Doctor Abdul Salam and at the time before he became the Foreign Minister, the Minister of Science and Science and Technology Industries Zulfikar Ali, the first meeting which even surprised the Americans, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, all the credit for this goes to him, when he became the Prime Minister, there was a wedding in Multan in June 73, he deliberately attended that wedding function and invited all the scientists of the Atomic Energy Commission there. The Americans did not know at first, but when they saw that a meeting was being held in a long three-piece suit in the June heat in Multan.

[00:21:27]His eyes opened at that. What is this happening?

[00:21:30]I was present in that meeting of scientists, nuclear scientists and universities from all over Pakistan, there in Multan. In that he indicated that we will move towards nuclear science.

[00:21:41]When India conducted the blast for the first time in 1974, at that time the then government, Zulfkar Ali Bhutto, who was the Prime Minister, had decided that a bomb had to be made. In the beginning itself, its control and command system was made very strong and was given to such an organization so that that organization could work in its own way.

[00:22:09]Considering it a huge project of national security, all the governments kept funding it. So to turn the new program into a weapon program, the first idea publicly known as idea was planted, was denied, he was the one who was actually asking a question publicly, what would you do if India builds a bomb because it was China's nuclear test in 1964 by changing the Indian program, that changed the Pakistan program into two camps. So the moment he took power, within one month he gave the direction to the Pakistan Commission, we were program direction, something always wanted you to have. created that be you have the but you don't have the soul get the india pakistani