TITLE: SOUNDING THE ALARM! The Fight for Black America’s Future

Ajouté : 2026-05-15

[00:00:02]Hey, called one of the most influential women in the world. And she has sat at the intersection of law, politics, journalism, and civic leadership for decades. She's a good friend of mine, so I got to give her her props. and she has never been afraid to tell America the truth about itself, even when it's uncomfortable. She's an award-winning author, so many books, journalist, legal analyst, and global voice on leadership, diversity, and civic responsibility.

[00:00:41]Now, she has a brand new book out called Redefining Freedom: Thoughts on Bridging Divides and Renewing the American Promise uh at 250. Uh, it dropped on April 28th and it is part history, part civic guide, and part a love letter to America. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Sophia Nelson back to Read This Read That. She is a cousin. She's a dear friend of mine. I've known her forever.

[00:01:06]Actually, we met on the Tom Joiner Cruise.

[00:01:10]>> And by the way, I'm sorry to before I let you say hello, Sophia. I'm Jackie forgot to mention that you can get the book yourself and should in the store.

[00:01:19]Oh my goodness. Jackie Reed, let's make sure we sell some of these books and don't just talk about it. You can go to there it is. Thank you, Camille.

[00:01:26]Shopread this read that.com. If you jump into the shop once we finish talking about this book and you're so excited about it, don't just think about it.

[00:01:33]Don't just dream about it. Go ahead and buy the book. Go on, Sophia. How you doing?

[00:01:37]>> Hi girl. So, first of all, I love you ladies and I really love seeing Jay Anthony Brandon was bitter that I couldn't be on that segment with you. It was like the Tom Joiner Morning Show reunion with Joy jumping in >> and u the AKA thing was not funny however because that man caused us a lot of problems with their little sarity thing and we had to sue them. That was like a real thing, Jackie.

[00:01:59]>> Yeah, it was.

[00:02:00]>> So, they were serious. They had They look prettier than some of the AKs. Can I say that as an AK?

[00:02:05]>> No, you cannot.

[00:02:06]>> Excuse me. Uh, so I'm sorry. Um, now c can we can we can y'all explain to me why y'all had trick daddy?

[00:02:12]>> Oh my god.

[00:02:13]>> Wait, let her finish her thought. Joanne thought about let her let her enter the room. You bringing that up, daddy. I just >> let her enter the room. Joy ass. She had Sophia. So, you know, I cannot make a comment on that. Right. However, to the point I was making about just it was great to see you guys and just having some laughter. This is the first national platform I've been on where I get to talk to black women. So, I'm super excited.

[00:02:44]>> You know, our mainstream media now, and I don't need to tell you this, Joy and Jackie, we're not very represented. I mean, you've got a couple sisters we can think of, but I've been on all the major shows with more coming, and I haven't talked to a black woman yet. So, I'm really excited to be here and thank you for that.

[00:03:00]>> Wow. That's so crazy. Yeah, the landscape has changed tremendously. They have laid off um and gotten rid rid of so many black and brown people in legacy media newsrooms across the country really. It is not looking good. It It's unfortunate. And then and those many of those I'm not going to say all but many who are who remain uh whether they're of color or not they're compromised in so many instances because what they're saying is being muzzled. They can't tell the the whole truth. They can't tell the whole story because of business relationships. people being afraid of of of the administration coming down on them, suing, you know, Trump wants to sue everybody, especially when they tell the truth um about him or someone, you know, in his family or whatever. So, it it really is, you know, you're a journalist, too, Sophia. It's an uncomfortable time to be a journalist, particularly if you're working for mainstream media, >> you know. Um, a couple thoughts. one, I think that Joy, Don Lemon, who I was on with last week, and Jim Acasta uh were three of, in my opinion, and I think of millions of Americans, three of the most important voices we had on the major networks, >> voices that challenged the status quo, that told the truth even when it was uncomfortable. And it's amazing, you were talking about George Floyd and the distasteful jokes about someone who was murdered, right? Whether or not that's funny or not, we can debate that. But if we look at the climate of George Floyd, where we were and where we are now, they are night and day. And to the book just briefly, because Jackie, I remember when we would get on Tom Dream, you'd be like, you'd have me on for every book and you'd be like, "Girl, sell those books. Talk about the book. I got you."

[00:04:46]So, it's not about that as much. And I've been very blessed. The book is doing well. It's made a couple bestsellers, so it's doing great. But the point is is that when I wrote this book, I was thinking about the 250th, the semiquincentennial, right? And what I didn't want to have happen was another book celebrating the greatness of America and the be that's good. We can do that. That's not my book. My book is the book that says we have a very bad situation right now, but what is the path forward? How do we get beyond this? And that begins with a real honest discussion about freedom. Now, I couldn't have planned for the events of the past three weeks to happen the way they've happened when this book was releasing. The Voting Rights Act assault by the Supreme Court, the southern states being the Confederacy has risen again. I live in Virginia and you saw what our state supreme court did. I still have my jaw on the ground. that one justice on our state supreme court who was appointed by one of the conservatives uh governors back in the day who voted this way was able to actually overturn an election Joy and Jackie while by the way Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc. are undoing maps and getting rid of black seats in real time and being sanctioned by the United States Supreme Court.

[00:06:13]Alabama just happened yesterday. Black folks, I need to talk to you for a moment. You know, I'm always the scholarly smart type. I don't want to be that person right now. The person I want to be right now is you better wake the hell up and realize that we're going back to postreonstruction after the Civil War and after slavery. And everything we've gained is now in jeopardy. Everything we've gained in the last 60 years. And the three of us here were babies then or not born yet or about to be born at you know the you're talking late 60s going into the 70s and you know it's in our lifetime or in definitely in our parents' lifetime and so I am deeply concerned sisters with the state of where we are and our lack of response to it is what has me concerned.

[00:06:57]>> Yeah.

[00:06:57]>> Yeah.

[00:06:58]>> Oh go ahead. Go ahead Joanne. No, no. I was just going to say that, you know, I it I it to me it would be very difficult to sit down and write about America given all that you've said that's happening now. But even if you just think about all the things that have happened in our lifetimes, um there's been obvious progress, but the recalcitrance of the right, the recalcitrance of the refusnix, if you put it in sort of Russian terms, are the people who just will never be able to get over the idea that we got out of chains. They just can't get over it.

[00:07:27]They can't get past it. it really does taint the whole American uh brand. And so when you sat down to sit and write a book about America, how did you get past that?

[00:07:39]>> Well, I opened the book on Howard's campus on election night because I was there covering for Atlanta Journal Constitution and for Forbes and I got a call from our county executive here in Lowden County who's a black woman, Phyllis, a Democrat. She said, "We're in trouble." And I said, "What do you mean we're in trouble?" She said, "Haris is struggling to win in Virginia." And I'm like, wait a minute, Virginia's blue and Biden just carried it by 10. I think Harris carried Virginia by four or five.

[00:08:04]Her point was Kane was running 200,000 votes ahead. And this was the case we saw in every one of the battleground states, the states where she should have done well. She was running behind the rest of the ticket that was below her.

[00:08:17]What does that tell you? It tells you that there was a splitting of votes in this country. is I open up the book and I'm saying, "How can it be that America twice, not once, but twice, elected a man who literally on the campaign trail was talking about sharks?" Hannibal Lectar, how to be electrocuted on a boat and get away from sharks. I'm not making this up, folks. And his platform didn't exist if there were what theories he had, theories of a plan or something like that he had. And Harris had a plan before her. Hillary had a plan. They were smart, intelligent, credentialed, and the country said, "Nah, I'm going to elect this man who can't even make complete sentences work together, who has now been convicted of 34 felonies, slept with a porn star, but I could go on and on and on." And the country chose that. And and that's where I kind of open because that's where you got to park. You have to ask yourself a hard question. What is going on with America in 2026 now where Italy has a woman prime minister, Germany has had one, Britain has had three females. I can go on and on and on. And in the great United States of America, the beacon of hope and light to everybody, women and people of color are losing rights faster than we can count to 10. We're going backwards. And so for me, the book is about freedom. And the book is about who has it and who does not and how do we expand it to include all of us because 250 years later it still doesn't include the three of us in the way that it should and include immigrants and other people of color and white women even who vote against their own interest all the time which I don't understand. And my question to the next generation with whom I dedicated the book to is what are you going to do to make this country the country it should be as it was on paper as Dr. King said that promisory note right that hasn't yet been paid you need to pay it. That promisory note that said all men are created equal not some not a few not just white. And that's where we have to begin this discussion because we haven't gotten there yet. And nobody wants to have that conversation, ladies, while the country is steadily and quickly undoing diversity, undoing equity, undoing inclusion. What is it?

[00:10:43]600,000 black women lost jobs in the last 15 months between corporate and public sectors. Like 300,000 to 600,000 black women in this country were targeted. We have a serious crisis and I don't think we're paying attention enough and I'm deeply concerned about.

[00:11:00]So that's what I'm writing about that urgency.

[00:11:02]>> Let me talk to you about this because uh you know people may know if if they don't you're a former Republican. You've left the Republican party.

[00:11:11]>> So I know you can really speak to this and you're great at reading political tea leaves like watching the movement what's going out there. You really study it well. We hear constantly or consistently I should say about people that are you know our MAGA who are disappointed with Trump. We see people like, you know, Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly and but not just them. We're hearing from actual citizens. You know, there's a whole movement on social media of former Trumpers and this and that.

[00:11:42]Should we feel hopeful at all that those people are going to leave the party as well or tip the scale back in in the Democrats favor in some kind of way? Is there enough of a movement of this anti-Trumpism from MAGA that'll make a difference come midterms?

[00:12:04]>> No, that's a distraction. Don't buy into it.

[00:12:07]>> What we need to be focused on, particularly as African-Americans, our traditional civil rights organizations need to really wake up fast and and wake up with a fire under our tail. Is that project 2025? They told you what they were going to do and I guess we didn't take it seriously. I don't know. I'd love to hear from both of you, particularly Joy, your thoughts. Um, as someone who was on a major media platform, as a mainstream journalist, um, I don't think we took it seriously enough. And if you actually read just the executive summary, they have implemented probably 50% in just the first year or so.

[00:12:45]>> Wow. You have to understand, Jackie, and I cannot say this clearly enough. So, everybody hear me, they cannot allow the 2026 midterms to go in the direction of the Democrats because if they do, they know that there will be a check on that executive power. Trump will likely get impeached again, which doesn't matter if he doesn't get removed. But the climate as it is right now, talking about tea leaves, the the Democrats have had with Virginia on the table, the Democrats were pretty locked into the majority in the House. Now, I don't know because what the Supreme Court has opened the door to is doing immediate gerrymandering that they're not putting in front of the voters like we did in Virginia and they're just taking away.

[00:13:26]You see what Landry did in Louisiana? He just stopped the election and called it >> out the votes.

[00:13:32]>> I mean, just threw them out. You can't do that. elections. I don't want to get into my professor hat. The bottom line is this is that the project 2025 lays out a road map. This time they were organized. And so what I want you to not do, Jackie, is don't get distracted by MAGA, the people at the bottom who are driven by grievance. And they're the Confederacy shall rise again. If you look at the demographics of the Republican party, it is extremely white.

[00:14:03]It is extremely workingass.

[00:14:06]It is in different subsets of the country where the electoral college plays well in those red places, right?

[00:14:14]Because we don't do popular vote in this country as we should. And so if you get distracted by what they're doing, you're missing the bigger plan of people like the guy who is in charge of Palunteer and the the the big tech guys and the defense contractors and the infrastructure that they've set up to take power and consolidate it with the wealthiest few, with those who are very white, very male. Take a look at Trump's cabinet, his adviserss, who's running the country and running it poorly, and they talk about DEI. That's the dumbest set of people I've ever seen in my life. WEI, white entitled, right? And so, in my opinion, that project 2025 is what we really need to be focused on and how do we combat it and shut it down. And if the Democrats don't take control come January 2027, I don't know what happens.

[00:15:14]And I'm being very honest now, not being over dramatic here. I don't know if the Republic can withstand another four years, two years of this. Things are not good. And that's not being alarmist. Just look at the data. Look at the gas. Look at inflation. Look at groceries. Look at housing. Look at the number of people defaulting on credit cards and student loans and car payments. Things are not good and they're going to get worse.

[00:15:42]>> Yeah. I mean, and first of all, I'm stealing WEI, uh, white, entitled, and incompetent. I think we need to establish that. I'm I'm a Frank Lintz girl. I think that you got to establish language, which is why I have tried to get people to stop calling it Jim Crow and call it Jon Crow because it is John Roberts who's doing it. But yes, I think what you're saying, Sophia, is true because, and the answer, I think, in part to your question is that Republicans are not, they don't believe in democracy, right?

[00:16:09]>> They just don't. So, I mean, if you think about you live in Virginia, Virginia voted, three million people said, "Let's change the maps."

[00:16:16]>> Four people on the Supreme Court said no. And then six people on the US Supreme Court said that a that legislators without asking the people can change the maps in Alabama, Louisiana, and really any state they want. And in Texas, so they've said you don't have to take it to a vote of the people. You in the legislature, they really do believe in you're talking about the 250th anniversary. This is the America that's what that that began where legislators don't have to ask people. There is no direct democracy, right? Even senators used to be appointed. So they want to go back to the original pre uh civil war America and they're doing that. And I think the challenge and you can speak to this just as somebody who used to be in the other party. When Republicans look at Democrats, they see people who are rules people. Democrats are trying to fight a fascist takeover with rules. They're trying to play within the rules. They're trying to do traditional politics. That the reason that I'm not confident about November, just like you're not, is Democrats are doing a rules-based response to something that isn't being done through politics, elections, or rules. It's just a fascist takeover.

[00:17:25]They have tanks in the streets, metaphorically, and Democrats have uh a pen and a pen and pad in their in their in their lapel.

[00:17:35]>> Did the police state in Minnesota? Look at what they did, >> right? That's what they're doing.

[00:17:38]They're doing police state. They're doing boot on face. They're not doing procedures. The Supreme Court's not even looking at the Constitution. They're saying, "What's the outcome that gives Republicans a majority? We're doing that." And they don't even care what's in the Constitution because soji Brown Jackson is writing these dissents saying, "Hey, you know what? That's not in the Constitution." And they're like, "F you. We're doing it.

[00:17:59]>> They don't care." So, what's the Dem I mean, Democrats, if they were to get outside the rules, what could they do?

[00:18:05]Well, I think Virginia was the Democrats kind of stand, right, where Louise Lucas and others said, "We will match you and we will draw a 10 to one map and we will do this where the Democrats in my state screwed up."

[00:18:20]>> They played by the rules to your point.

[00:18:22]They had a great idea of let's match this energy, but then they took it to the voters. They shouldn't have done that. They should have said, "We're doing this. We have a super majority.

[00:18:32]sue us because the Supreme Court said we can do this.

[00:18:35]>> Correct.

[00:18:36]>> Now, what Virginia has done is they let the voters speak. The Supreme Court has done something here in Virginia that is absolutely unconstitutional when you get to a separation of powers and enumerated powers. Again, I don't want to be a professor nerd, but at the end of the day, they they they've gone to the Supreme Court. I'm going to be really intrigued to see how they vote on this because Texas did the same thing, right?

[00:19:00]It's gonna be interesting to see if the Supreme Court >> No, they didn't do the same thing. Sav, I'm sorry to cut you, but no, Virginia and California did the same thing. They took it to a referendum because they were trying to be rules based. Texas and the rest of them said, "F the people. We just doing this."

[00:19:13]>> Right. You're exactly right. So, my point is Joy is that you are right on.

[00:19:18]And let me say this to our listeners because it's important. You have to get involved in your government. It does matter. You are affected by it. And democracy does not sustain itself. Creta Scott King said this and this inspired me to write the book. She said in essence, freedom is renewed and won again in every generation. It is not static. It is not promised. And so I think we as black people in particular got real comfortable with the gains made in the 60s and the civil rights movement, Reverend Jackson and the Rainbow Coalition which expanded and you know bound us together with other groups and we deluded our strength as African-Americans because we were busy supporting other groups and other movements that by the way you don't see them talking right now to help us and voting rights. I say all that to say that we lost our way here. We got complacent. We got comfortable. We thought we had arrived maybe and we thought we were moving towards a more ealitarian equal society. Well, surprise.

[00:20:24]Racism has reared its ugly head once again. And my argument, Joy and Jackie, is is that the way something begins is usually how it ends. This country started half slave and half free. Look at the census. that was done in 1760 go back to 1780 and on and on in the south the enslaved persons were more than what 30 40% which brings you to the three-fifth compromise three-fifths of a person that's how we were all defined our ancestors so what I'm saying to you is how think a country that's founded on that value system that says liberty for me and not for thee freedom for me and not for you and then we finally get that we get the 13th, 14th, 15th amendments.

[00:21:11]They want to do away with due process.

[00:21:13]They want to do away with the 14th amendment. I actually now think the Supreme Court will do it. I didn't before. Now I'm suspect.

[00:21:20]>> They will.

[00:21:20]>> I really think they're going to do it now.

[00:21:22]>> And then what they're going to say is they're going to narrow it to the the former enslaved people and then somehow tell those of us that are black, well, you don't fit into that because you weren't enslaved. You see what I mean?

[00:21:33]It's a circular dangerous game that this Supreme Court is playing. But I think the last point I want to make is folks, the way our government was set up, I open the book with Ben Franklin's quote, "A republic if you can keep it." What he meant by that was this, that in a democratic republic, you have checks and balances. You have three equal branches of government. The founders never envisioned ever, if you read the documents, that we would ever come to a day like 2026 when the Congress and the judiciary would watch a rogue executive violate the emolments clause every day, violate things like the tariff act and executive powers, the war powers act. Trump is running wild and there is no check on him. They never saw that because the way they built our government is it really operates on a honor system, right, of we do our job, you do yours, they do theirs. For the first time ever, we've had the system aligned in a way where a rogue executive is been given more power by the Supreme Court than ever. We've seen the decisions and you're seeing the fallout. So, if the Democrats don't take control of the House of Representatives, at least the Senate was in play. I don't know how that works out at the end. But ladies, if they don't win control of one of the branches of government next time around, we probably get a Republican president again in 28. I don't know if it's going to be Trump. I think he plans on running again, as ridiculous as he is, even though he can't by law do so.

[00:23:17]We know he doesn't pay attention to the law. They don't care as Joyce said. So folks need to wake up and you ladies have been saying that on your show for a minute. Um I saw the show that you did with, you know, Trump calling Rachel the B- word and the way he disrespects black women and journalists. Um things are really not great right now. They're just not.

[00:23:40]>> I got dogs barking in the background, so I'm gonna try to get my question in quick. Um you know, I I'm I'm hearing that, you know, from experts who say that the only hope that we have now, Democrats, of beating Trump, let's put it that way, now with this Supreme Court decision and the state's response to that is really showing up in the polls at the polls in really big numbers. But if Democrats, to Joe's point, continue to play by the book, I don't know how they're going to be able to motivate the numbers. uh I don't think they have the strategy to even shake things up enough to get people to the polls. Like what advice would you give the Democratic party at this this place? Because I just feel that a lot of people are hopeless that now with the Supreme Court decision that anything is going to work to defeat Trump or you know at least limit his power. So Jackie, that's an excellent question and that's exactly what we need to focus on which is one of the problems that got us to where we are is 50% and I said 50% of this country doesn't vote in any election. It just doesn't vote. The vote is the most powerful weapon the people have against the rogue government. It's why Dr. King and a Phip Randolph and Thood Marshall and others fought the way they did under pain of death. All of us met and knew John Lewis. You could see the scars in his head from the Pettis Bridge beat down at Selma. They literally put their blood on the line for us to have that right because the vote is power. So the path forward is kind of simple. One, the no kings movement has really been a good movement that needs to translate into votes and holding Congress accountable by us either blowing up their phone lines, their email, their texts, whatever we need to do consistently where we say you keep doing this, you won't have a job come next November. We all know that they like being reelected more than anything in the world. They don't care about anything other than being reelected. So, I think we have to focus on voter registration. grassroots.

[00:25:49]But to Joyy's point, if the Democratic leadership continues to put out these statements like Hakee and Chuck Schumer love statements, nobody gives a damn about your statement. What is your plan?

[00:26:03]Like Virginia Governor Abigail Spamberger, get yourself together, recall the legislature now. call a special session and tell them to gerrymander that map the way you want it done and push it through and go now. Now we're just like all these other states and dare the Supreme Court which can do nothing unless it's sued up to them in this case separation of powers 10th amendment. But that's what Joyy's talking about folks. The Democrats in my state have an option to fix this. They can call the legislature back right now and just gerrymander like everybody else is doing and say, "Well, Louisiana did it and Texas did it and Alabama did it.

[00:26:44]Why can't Virginia, a southern state, do it?" So, I think that's the path forward. You know, you cannot bring a knife to a gunfight and that's what the Democrats keep doing and they're going to have to wake up.

[00:26:58]And also, I think another point is the treatment of the black community, which has been the backbone of the Democratic Party's electoral victories, black women in particular. We're going to have to think long and hard about what we do.

[00:27:12]And I'd love to get your thoughts on this, both of you, on what we do to how do we leverage that given that the Republicans are not an option ever at this point and the Democratic party doesn't seem Look at how they treated Kla Harris. She got the nomination late, but look at how people have talked about her afterwards and maybe running again.

[00:27:34]It's not very kind. I would love to know what you guys think, but the way Ford is voting, Jackie, and organizing and 50% of the electorate cannot keep sitting out elections because you see the outcome.

[00:27:49]>> Sorry, I got so many dogs barking here in stereo, so I'm muting. But no, I I agree with you. I think a lot of a lot of I think the Democrats need to throw the book away. They need to burn it and they really need to be radical as radical as they can. You know what you're talking about in Virginia, but everywhere they're always asking for permission and trying to do things but just do you know they're breaking rules over there. We need to break rules, too.

[00:28:15]>> Absolutely.

[00:28:16]>> And to me, that's what needs to happen.

[00:28:17]I talk on the show all the time about how frustrated I am with Democratic leadership and the lack of courage that they have and these, you know, uh, emails that they send or statements that they make, you know, that are harshly worded. Um, you know, I remember when some of the Dems, I don't I don't know if it was Schumer or somebody who was saying the F-word on air like, you know, and I'm like, what are you doing? you know once I think it didn't >> I I also think that you know there there's a whole debate in the chat going on about whether the dems are too weak or they're going to do it is Abigail Abigail is Abigail going to do anything?

[00:28:53]No. And I mean you know if if if I you know if I were in charge of the universe they I would do what you said Sophia that the the state legislature and the governor would just call a special session draw new maps zero out the Republicans in Virginia. You know, Wes Moore would order that fool of a state senate president and tell him, "You will not be reelected if you stand in my way.

[00:29:15]We're zeroing out the Republicans in Maryland. I would get rid of every single Republican in Massachusetts.

[00:29:20]Every single Republican in New York." I would literally, if you don't, if you y'all want to play, I would play, too.

[00:29:25]But they don't have enough love. They're they're not they don't have enough affection for black uh for the CBC, for black uh voters. They they just think black voters just owe them their votes.

[00:29:35]So, I think the challenge is counting on the Democratic party whose goal is to keep blue state Democrats in power in their seats forever. They're not the ones we should be turning to to fight.

[00:29:45]And you can't show up to people who can't pay their rent and can't afford I just filled my gas tank up was like 580 a gallon or something today. And people can't afford to fill their car up. They have $10 and gas is $5 a gallon. They can't get home. They they can't afford a bus route. They can't afford anything.

[00:30:01]People who are struggling, when you tell them register and vote, that goes in one ear now. other. I think what we need to do as a community is this message of vote blue no matter who that ain't working for us and it's not working for a lot of our people that don't vote the half of people who don't vote it was 33 31% voted for Trump 30% voted for Kla Harris and 33% didn't vote at all that 33% is hard to get at because they're they're mainly economically struggling and so what we should be doing is going in these communities not tomorrow not right before the election but now with relief I think if you come to people and say what do you need let me let me hook you up. You need you need rent help.

[00:30:36]Let's do that. The old Tamony system, people hated the machines. But you know what? The machines fed you.

[00:30:40]>> You're right, Joy. Yes.

[00:30:41]>> Right. The machines fed you. The machines got you a job. The machines made sure that you were okay. And then when they asked you for your vote, they'd already given you something.

[00:30:48]Democrats, what have they given you? And what do you what do you owe them?

[00:30:51]Nothing. And so I think what we need to start stop I don't even think about them no more. If it has to be the Working Families Party that says, you know what, we're not even asking you to register right now. We're at we're coming to you and saying, "Do you need help with your utility bills? Can we can we let's get some money behind just helping people survive?" And then when we get down to election time and time to register, it'll be more legitimate if somebody who's already been helping you comes to you and says, "Now, this is what I need you to do for me. I just need your vote.

[00:31:20]Let's and this is what I'm going to get you in return." It's all transactional.

[00:31:23]Voting is a transaction. It's not a it's not a political uh lifestyle, right?

[00:31:28]It's not a it's not an identity. the people have made it their identity. It's not an identity. It's just a it's just a transaction. And so what I want is in exchange for my votes for a Democrat is I want some things. I'm going to need y'all to stop giving Israel my money cuz I need my money in my community because my people can't eat. I'm going to need you to take that money from them and give it to uh Detroit and give it to um you know, Flint and give it to uh you know, Selma and Memphis. That's what I'm going to need you to do. So, I'm going to need that. Uh I'm going to need a few things. And I'm going to need y'all to put a black candidate up in places where you want to put a self-funding billionaire white person. Well, I don't want you to do that. I need a black woman here. We need to start asking for something in exchange or we need to bounce cuz I'm like the the Working Families Party is right there and if they came to me tomorrow with a good offer, I'm going to listen to it. I'm being honest. And so, I think we need to be a little more flexible in terms of this identity politics we're doing on our side. Go ahead.

[00:32:16]>> What Joy is saying is oldfashioned grassroots retail politics. Uh where people used to have the walking around money. I mean, I grew up in South Jersey where you got Camden and Philly right across from each other. talk about mob used to run elections, all kind of shenanigans going on and they were organized and they would take people food. They would have walking around stuff and what I'm saying is and what Joy is saying is in order to be engaged in your democracy, it filters all the way down to the lowest level of do people have food to eat? Do they have a place to stay? Do they believe that there is a stake in the government that they pay taxes to even when they don't have money? What is it that I am getting? Everything in this life and joy, you know, we're Gen Xers, but if you go to this millennial and down, they look at life very differently. The the kids that are the Gen Y and Z now, they are deeply transactional and they have a very short attention span because of the devices. We didn't have that. We knew how to engage, how to talk, how to connect. That is not the world we live in. And I think to your point, Jackie, when Hakee is putting out these three page statements, literally a tough statement or you have another press conference where you just rant and you're trying to rap while you're trying to rant at the president >> or or Cy Booker is going on a book tour.

[00:33:44]>> And saying Trump bad don't work anymore either. Everybody knows he's bad. They know they know he's a a fat, evil, >> stupid geriatric man. Brain gone. We We already know he's We know everything about him. We know he's corrupt. We know he's stealing.

[00:33:58]>> We know.

[00:33:59]>> Thoughts, Joy? I'd love to get your thoughts because we're talking and I think people want to know this, too.

[00:34:05]>> Why do you think it is that Trump can do everything he does when Bush couldn't have done this, Obama couldn't have done it, Clinton could? What has happened?

[00:34:14]I'm I'm curious. I know what I think, but what do you think?

[00:34:17]>> I I I'll jump first and because I know Joy will have a more expansive answer, I'll just say it's racism. I think that there are people who the most important I think there too many people in this country where the most important thing to them is moving like the majority.

[00:34:35]Even if they're outnumbered, it's a power that they don't want to lose. And so, I think they're willing to look the other way to do things. And so I I think a lot of Republicans that are, you know, in Congress, I think they don't like Trump. I don't think they I don't think that they can stand him, but I think that there are things that they want to get through. I think they wanted to overturn Roie Wade. I think they wanted to pull back or or really diminish the Voting Rights Act in the way that they did. They have a plan and they know that there are enough idiots in this country that will blindly follow this man as far as voters and then that there are enough people who want the power right that comes with having this man as president and then you know there are the people who I mean I just feel like it's racism but it's all these other things but it is turning back the clock of time on black people. That is a goal of so many people. I think there are a lot of liberals out there who voted for Obama and they love Beyonce and, you know, they'll probably, you know, let you have their parking spot and be nice to black people out in the world, but what they don't want is for their kid to be part of a minority at a school. What they they don't want that. And so when they go and pull that lever, you know, they're going to do what they got to do to make sure that they still can operate as the majority, right? They can be as li and I think that that's what what happened what keeps happening when it comes to Trump. That's >> Yeah, I think for his voters, Jackie is a thousand% right. It's racism and envy Trump. But the what makes a person unfortunately um the majority of you know six six and 10 if the 10 white people standing in front of you throw a rock at them six of them are Republicans. They're just culturally Republican. Why are they Republican?

[00:36:26]Because they're for whatever party is the most conservative. What is conservatism preserving white rule? And they will literally bankrupt themselves.

[00:36:34]They will destroy themselves. They will let their daughters lose their b lose their bodily autonomy. They'll lose their farms, lose their shirt, lose their homes, lose their business if they can just stay with white power running their white power is such a drug. It's like crack cocaine and they can't get off it. They just they will they will literally vote themselves into poverty in order to maintain white power. But that's the voters. But why I think your other question, Sophia, is why do the other politicians go along with it?

[00:37:04]Because a lot of them are racist. That's sure. You know, they're they're the they're the ones who I think are racist.

[00:37:07]Like the Tom Cotton, I think Lindsey Graham races. Like, it's just my opinion. I don't know these people, but they come across racist to me. But I don't know their heart. So, I don't know. I do know that why they do it and why the Supreme Court, my theory on why the politicians, including the Supreme Court, who are just a bunch of politicians, the Republican ones, the why they do it is corruption. The mob, the way the mob works is that if you join the mob, you got to kill somebody, too. You can't just join a group of killers and you don't kill nobody. If you're not corrupt, you can't be in the gang because you're not dirty. You got to get a little taste. Everybody got to get a little dirty. It's like being in a street gang. If that gang is killing people, you got to kill somebody, too.

[00:37:46]If that gang is robbing, you got to rob, too. They're all in the corruption. And they may hate Trump personally. They may think he's garish and gross and disgusting and weird. They laugh at him behind his back. I'm sure they all laugh. I'm sure JD Vance laughs at him behind his back. They all hate him, but they know that he is a celebrity who is racist and who keeps the racist base bedazzled and beguiled while all of them are stealing. They are all corrupt. And that corruption can only work if everybody is in on it and everybody's stealing. They're making money betting on companies they regulate. They regulate company X. They know when the when when things are going to change for that company. They throw down some money and they're getting rich. They're all grifting, but they have to grift as a group. And so the there and I and I include those six members of the Supreme Court. I assume they're all on the take.

[00:38:38]Everyone's grifting and you got to grift together.

[00:38:41]>> Story the Atlantic did and it was followed up by a lot of other outlets.

[00:38:45]Justice Roberts is a fascinating figure.

[00:38:48]One, his mentor was Ringquist. He came into fruition as a young guy at DOJ when Reagan first took office. So he's always been against the Voting Rights Act. In fact, it was one of his first assignments at DOJ. That's number one.

[00:39:01]Number two, his wife is one of the most influential K Street lobbyists, as quiet as it's kept >> who financial reporting showed they kept something like 10 to 10 million million dollars.

[00:39:15]>> Correct.

[00:39:16]>> And reported the way they should and those cases were coming before the court. He didn't recuse himself.

[00:39:22]>> So, you're going I want I bring that up.

[00:39:23]Say Joyy's not just calling people corrupt. She's not just shooting from the hip.

[00:39:27]>> What we're telling you is there is from the day this country began, there was a systemic process to keep black people oppressed financially, physically in bondage, emotionally, every way you could think about until we were freed. Then there was this Jim Crow that happened which was another hundred years of a different type of bondage.

[00:39:50]And now in the 21st century, you've got the regression of rights bondage as I call it, which is affirmative action destroyed, DEI destroyed, anything voting rights now destroyed. Civil rights has got to be next. And like I said, they're going to come for loving versus Virginia and same-sex marriage.

[00:40:09]They're gonna they got they got to ch >> not loving though because that's gonna mess with with Clarence money.

[00:40:14]>> Yeah. But what I'm saying is loving is the basis by which they passed the the the the Supreme Court case on samesex and I don't remember I think that's Hajes, right? Or something like that.

[00:40:23]But the bottom line is is that what I'm saying is they've got to chip it away to your point Joy because the truth is black people still haven't achieved parody. If you look at the pay gap right now for black women, forget everybody else. Black women would take us 232 years. I said 232 years to achieve pay parody with white males for the same education, same job. That wage gap and the wealth gap is expansive. The average white family in this country has about 200 plus thousand dollars worth of what you call wealth or assets. Black families, it's about 40ome thousand, right? So, and it's even lower for Hispanics and others. So my point is is that I don't get what my fellow white citizens are angry about. And I mean this sincerely, corporate America is still run by 90% white males in the Fortune 500. Every room you go into, whether it's academia, industry, corporate foundations, the military is overwhelmingly run by white men.

[00:41:28]>> But you know why they're mad though, Sophia? that we they're mad is they don't they they want that. They want to have all the money, all the opportunity, all the CEO gigs, all the jobs they want. And number one, they don't want to have to earn it. They want to get it because they show up. And number two, they don't want to have to feel bad about it. They don't want to be told that history shows that they have what they have because of theft. They don't want to hear that. They want to feel good about having everything. They don't want to have to think about history, think about us, think about civil rights, think about Jim Crow. They don't want to think about history because when they look at history, if if they were honest with themselves, they would know that most of what they have is theft by their ancestors that was passed down to them. And they don't want to think about that. They want to believe that they have that that it's a meritocracy because that's the only way they can have self-esteem. If you are Pete Heg said, you need to believe that what you're doing is a meritocracy, not a mediocre. You cannot accept that you are a mediocre white dude who who is completely unqualified for your job. You need to believe that the black four-star general only got his job because he was black, but not you. These people are in the that's why I said it's racism and envy. There's an envy when a person that didn't bother to elevate themselves because they didn't have to because society said you didn't have to work hard in school. You're a white man. You get it anyway. But then when you see that excellent black woman who clawed her way to the top, became a CEO or became the president of Harvard and you watch her shine, what you feel deep in your heart is envy. And you feel that how dare she surpass me, you know, how dare she get into Harvard? How dare she run that company? How dare she have a $60 million Netflix deal? How dare she have what I want? And and because they've been taught that they don't have to do much, that they get it just by existing, they can't stand, they can't accept that we don't get it just by existing. They're projecting onto black women mainly and black men that we must have gotten what we got what we have just by being black because they've gotten what they have just by being white. And the reality is how we get where we are is we have to literally we have to work 10 times harder. Our parents all told us that they don't.

[00:43:42]They don't have to work 10 times hard.

[00:43:43]They just have to have an uncle who so and so get them a hookup. They just have to have a friend that so and so is the they're getting hookups and thinking that they are geniuses. You know what I mean? You at third you you're at third base and thought you hit a triple. But we have to claw our way to third base then you mad that we on third base.

[00:43:57]She's like, "YOU TOOK MY BASE." LIKE, "NO, I CLAWED MY WAY TO THAT DAMN BASE."

[00:44:01]>> And again, Joyy's not talking out of school here. You're talking about a woman who's brilliant, went to Harvard, and is just an amazingly smart, brilliant woman who >> And I had to have I'm sorry, but I had to have a co a a junior college dropout tell me that I stole my spot at Harvard from a white man, Charlie Kirk, the late Charlie Kirk. and that not only did I steal my spot at Harvard from a white man, they could he couldn't accept or believe that I could have deserved to go to Harvard or that absolutely >> or that um Mrs. Obama deserved to go to Harvard. Couldn't believe that Jackson Lee or Katanji Brown freaking Jackson.

[00:44:36]They can't. It just it blows their mind to think that Katanji Brown Jackson could actually just be a brilliant genius that made it onto the court by her mayor. In their mind, everybody black that has something got it just because they're black. They can't accept IT BECAUSE THEY GOT WHAT THEY HAVE JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE WHITE. JACKIE, I THINK AN IMPORTANT thing though, I think we've all talked about what's broken, what's wrong, and we we could go on and on and on as three black women of our generation, and we've been blessed in many ways, but the reality is if you take the three of us, and you take three of our white female age cohorts, everything being equal, and you look at where some of them are and you look at where similarly situated black women are, and what we've had to do to again, Joy being her brilliant self on MS every day and telling the truth like others on that network do that are still there. But somehow Joy had to go. Joy was saying too much or doing too much or irritating. I don't know what it was.

[00:45:37]But but my point is I want to speak to this next generation. Say you're listening to three black women talk because we've lived life now and we got more to go for sure, but we got to pass this baton to all of you. And the way forward has to be a couple things. One, educate yourself and know your history.

[00:45:59]You are not I've heard a lot of young people in their 20s and 30s say there's no more racism. I'm talking about black ones, not just the white ones absolutely believe that because they grew up with black kids. They go to school with them.

[00:46:12]They're friends with them. They date them. They don't see racism. I had a young white woman tell me who's a medical student, "Why would you need a voting rights act? Look at you. You're brilliant. You're a lawyer. They they do this all the time. In their mind, one Joy Anne Reed means all the black people's problems are solved in the world. That's their mindset.

[00:46:32]>> Well, Barack Obama once pal or whoever we go on and on. But young people of this generation, I need you to understand, you're in the fight of your life right now because the rights that all of us here were born with because we're all born after the Civil Rights Act, after the Voting Rights Act, we're all born after those things. We kind of inherited that and we're kind of what I call the Cosby generation, right? We're the first ones to be able to go to med school, law school, the IVs, all that kind of stuff, and get these degrees and make big six figure salaries, etc. But all of that is being rolled back in real time. And I think it's so important that we say to this next generation who I dedicated the book to, you have got to wage this fight. You have got to take this country back for your generation and you have to redefine freedom to mean something bigger than we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal. That is a great notion, Thomas Jefferson, as you wrote it while you owned hundreds of other enslaved people and then you had a concubine that you had six kids with who was black. So there's this contradiction, right, of our beginning. And at 250, I didn't just want us to sit here and sing kumbaya and say how great we are. I wanted us to actually take a hard look and say, where are we actually at 250? And what does it look like for the people who were disenfranchised at the beginning of this story? Have they made progress? Sure.

[00:48:02]Are things different? Somewhat.

[00:48:05]But every day, I think it's fair to say we're seeing those gains rolled back.

[00:48:16]Hey, hey, hey.