Feisty Journalist Shuts Down ANC Integrity Chair on Live TV!

Added: 2026-05-25

[00:00:00]So, a no-nonsense journalist bribed the chairperson of the ANC's integrity commission over Palapala. In this video, I'm going to show you what happened there, and if you stay with me all the way till my biblical reaction, you'll get to see one of the voices that is central to the downfall of the ANC. As you know, South Africa will prosper.

[00:00:26]It's going to get brutal. You ready?

[00:00:29]Okay. Press like and let's go. Let's start 3 years ago, just before the ANC's national conference, when everyone was waiting for the integrity commission of the ANC to deliver its report on Palapala to the NEC. The party's national executive committee will tomorrow receive a final report from its integrity commission, which was looking into whether the Palapala scandal has brought the party into disrepute. The IC is mandated to look into possible acts of corruption or unethical behavior of ANC members, which tarnishes the organization's brand. President Cyril Ramaphosa has appeared twice before the ANC's integrity committee, which couldn't previously conclude its work due to a lack of insight and information into what happened during the theft at Palapala. But, in a leaked draft document in early November, the committee had found that the president has brought the organization into disrepute, a finding which the body has disputed. But, with the release of the Section 89 report, this could change.

[00:01:41]So, now, a week before the conference, the integrity commission says, "We are handing in the report." The ANC's integrity commission will release its report on the Palapala farm saga to the party's national executive committee.

[00:01:57]The committee has met with President Ramaphosa twice after the Section 89 panel found that he may have a case to answer over the theft at his game farm in 2020. What what is your sense, I mean, that this NEC meeting, will it manage to reach a decision today, make a resolution today after the Integrity Commission has presented its report about Palapala?

[00:02:19]It's tense inside there, you know, understandably so. People are fighting for their political careers. Others have been saying, "Well, don't hold your breath because nothing much will come out of this NEC meeting." Reports of the Integrity Commission will be presented.

[00:02:35]Already those who are in the political circles of President Cyril Ramaphosa are talking about him taking this report on appeal if it's negative against him.

[00:02:46]Then you get a sense that the political fight is far from over. And there are those who are reminding NEC members inside that, well, the reports of the Integrity Commission are not really binding and in the past they have been openly defied, or should I say undermined or just plainly rejected. So, you get a sense when you are inside there that they are going to fight over these reports and they are going to take them on appeal. Whoever is being given a negative outcome by the Integrity Commission of the ANC is said to be taking this report on appeal. The expectation from President Cyril Ramaphosa's supporters is that it must buy them time up until the elective congress of the ANC. So, there are even talks that they are trying to delay the presentation and tabling of that report.

[00:03:35]Even if it is tabled today, there are those who are calling for it to be deferred to the next and last NEC meeting of the ANC that will be finalizing the logistics for the conference, which is seven or eight days away from today. And they are hoping that when they get to that NEC meeting, they are going to say, "Well, we don't have time to be discussing reports.

[00:03:56]Let's deal with the logistics of the conference. That's the immediate priority." So, that's the sense you are getting inside there. People are prepared to fight to defend the candidates that they believe in. As to whether that will happen or not, we'll have to wait up until Paul Mashatile briefs us as to what is the final outcome of the NEC meeting.

[00:04:17]>> Well, exactly as Pule Mabe predicted, they did push it forward to the meeting just before the conference. At that meeting, Integrity Commission was supposed to present it, and they said, "No, there's no time. Let's present it at the conference." At the conference, where Fikile Mbalula, Cyril Ramaphosa, and everyone we know right now to be in the top seven was elected, at that conference, the Integrity Commission's Palapala report was reported in one sentence, and they said, "We need a new NEC so that we can present it to them."

[00:04:52]And then the new NEC was then put together, and then Mbalula said, "There's not going to be no Palapala discussion here." And then time went.

[00:05:03]This is now a year later. Integrity Commission report has gone nowhere, and you have Fikile Mbalula standing on stage and saying this, "Only in the ANC."

[00:05:20]They are here. They are hiding. They're already thinking about 2027.

[00:05:26]Some of them are even thinking that if Palapala were to go the wrong way, uh we will be in quick and fast.

[00:05:35]Now, let me tell you this. The ANC is not a in a crisis.

[00:05:39]And then we decided on Palapala because we said, "Can you allow everything else to be done? After that we will then talk about what needs to happen.

[00:05:52]And that agenda can't be set by Malema or the DA.

[00:05:57]And then the ANC will make its own determination about what must happen.

[00:06:01]And two, we will not just sacrifice our president at an altar.

[00:06:07]Neither are we psychopaths of Ramaphosa.

[00:06:11]We are not.

[00:06:13]If anything were to arise and it require us to take a decision about the president, we've got rules in the ANC and the checks and balances, we will decide.

[00:06:26]If the president has to step aside at some point because he's got things to answer from a point of accountability, he will step aside.

[00:06:35]Who trust Parliament state?

[00:06:37]There's no problem about that.

[00:06:38]The president will step aside, there's no crisis.

[00:06:41]There is no crisis of leadership in the ANC and don't start to ferment that. There's no crisis of leadership in the ANC. This is now 2 years later, meaning the Integrity Commission has had 3 years to give their report to the NEC so the NEC can do something about it and the chairperson of the Integrity Commission, Reverend Frank Chikane, had an interview just yesterday about this.

[00:07:13]You got to hear it. You were DG [music] in the presidency.

[00:07:18]You were also commissioner of the IEC.

[00:07:22]And now we're [music] speaking to you in your capacity as the chairperson of the Integrity Commissioner in the ANC. Yeah.

[00:07:32]Did you ever think at this point in your life that you would be required to teach grown men and women about morals and ethics. Well, you would never have predicted we'd be here. I mean, it's impossible to. We worked during the time when people sacrificed their lives. I mean, from the beginning to the end, many of our people died. Many were tortured. You know, people who died in detention around and the years.

[00:08:10]And I can show you when I was in detention, how many people died during that detention, that to the next one, and the next one. People paid a huge price. And and I did not believe. There is a stage where I said, "You can't buy comrades. You know, we're not on sale during the struggle. The money was there. They wanted to buy us out." But we stuck with it, fought the system until it collapsed. Younger generation that has come in thinking that this is the way of doing it. It's now endemic.

[00:08:50]>> Yeah, it's now endemic. So, it went to the NEC of the ANC.

[00:08:57]And that's how they developed all these laws, anti-corruption laws.

[00:09:03]And they thought that if you have those laws, you would stop the corruption. But I think it's more It's more than that.

[00:09:12]You need to change people's way of thinking, not just laws. Laws don't change people.

[00:09:18]And so, they went ahead with the laws.

[00:09:21]In fact, our black empowerment laws, which were good for the poor and excluded, were used to enrich individuals at expense of the people.

[00:09:35]And so, you give me a tender to do a road, but I don't have skills to do that. I don't even know how much it will cost.

[00:09:44]And so when you ask me to bribe you to give me that deal, I give you a million out of the 40 million or whatever, then transport department another million.

[00:09:57]You can't finish that project because you've given away the money. The capitalist capitalist are clever. They just, you know, increase the amount and provide for corruption.

[00:10:12]You know, and so it's not like they are not corrupt. They provide for it. And and we didn't really get to changing people, preparing them for this war.

[00:10:26]We We prepared people to take over government, but we didn't prepare people to govern. You know, there's a document that says ready to govern of the ANC, and I always say after I've been in government, I realized we're not that ready.

[00:10:43]We should have prepared the candidates, told them when somebody offers you a house, you must ask what the the implications are about that. What does it go with? So he claims a policy that has at least seven points that incentivize corruption is a good policy, but we were not prepared to govern because even though we push a policy that is littered with points that incentivize corruption, we didn't tell them not to be corrupt. They were certainly not ready to govern. Okay, let's go on.

[00:11:25]>> You need to change the minds of people.

[00:11:27]During the struggle, we understood that.

[00:11:30]You must root the people in in what we want to achieve, understand that sacrifice your life for it. And we needed to get them ready to do that in the new South Africa.

[00:11:43]People still continued.

[00:11:45]>> Still continued.

[00:11:46]>> Yeah. Because there were no consequences.

[00:11:49]I mean, the Chinese state Yeah. is corrupt. It is known to be corrupt.

[00:11:56]But when that corruption surfaces, they deal with it decisively.

[00:12:01]>> Yeah.

[00:12:03]They even shoot you. They even shoot you.

[00:12:05]>> you. For bribery and corruption. So, when it surfaces, when it is known, they cut its head off. Yeah. That's not what they're doing.

[00:12:17]No. We We didn't go that route because I think people Not death sentence, but dealing with corruption decisively.

[00:12:26]At the moment as we speak now, Jacob Zuma's corruption case is still ongoing, more than 20 years later.

[00:12:34]Yeah, but that's a that's a the democracy we have discussed that created them and the constitution we have. It is it you have to follow the laws.

[00:12:47]>> but it is also a denial to for accountability. It's somebody who refuses to be held accountable in the long run. Yeah.

[00:12:55]>> Because if you are you are presumed innocent until proven guilty in South Africa.

[00:13:01]>> Yeah. That's our democracy. Yes.

[00:13:03]>> You are a former president. You should be confident that even if you are found guilty erroneously or unfairly, then the systems are in place in this country Yeah.

[00:13:16]>> for for you to prove your innocence, right? But to drag a case on Yeah.

[00:13:22]>> for 20 years, it's a refusal to be held accountable. And I think that's what we see with many leaders. Yeah. They refuse to be held accountable. Our current president is refusing to be held accountable. He's also going to drag the entire country down this route of going to court and up and down Yeah. And and and I think one of the main reasons why the Chinese deal with corruption decisively is that it distracts them Mhm. from the issue at hand, which is to improve the lives of ordinary people.

[00:13:56]Yeah. But but you know what?

[00:13:59]If you you went the route where you are not you're not following the law. I'm not saying you shouldn't follow the law.

[00:14:07]I'm just saying deal with it decisively.

[00:14:09]>> if you follow the law here is President Zuma. I don't agree with him. I mean, he's been dragging this I don't know who's even bankrolling it. Dragging this for many years. It should have been stopped. I thought the legal system will say, "No, you can't continue the way you are doing it." And I think the latest judgment is actually saying continue with the case irrespective.

[00:14:35]So, I think we are caught that that you must differentiate two things. Caught in a place where people are said their rights. For instance, if you talk about the current president, I don't want to get into that because I'm in the integrity commission and I dealt with this matter, so I don't comment about specific cases. But you can't say you have no right to review this report.

[00:15:05]Yes.

[00:15:06]Yes. So, you you have to give him the right to do what that and Parliament must do what it's supposed to do.

[00:15:14]Uh but there are people who take advantage of our laws. That's why I'm saying even you've got a good black empowerment uh regime, they take advantage of that and make sure they exploit the system, corruption, etc. There are cases where we should be decisive, and I believe I I I agree with you.

[00:15:41]There are cases where we take too long, you know. There are cases which should be dealt with instantly.

[00:15:48]I always say to comrades, you know, in the church, I mean, they set up an inquiry, they get you out of the way quickly. It doesn't take long. I mean, it's like um having a relationship with a um and and a minor.

[00:16:03]You know, we don't debate whether it was a minor or not. It's that you are married, what were you doing there? You know what I'm talking about.

[00:16:12]>> It's integrity. It's about integrity, yes.

[00:16:15]And in terms of the law, you there are political actions that should have been taken. I agree with you, there are people who should never have lasted a day.

[00:16:27]Um if I'm a leader, I would sit with you and say, I just heard the story, and based on that story, I would say, "No, this thing is going to bring bring the organization into disrepute. I'm going to We need to release you." And you release them. I mean, that's what we should do. Yes, because one of your clauses regarding the integrity commission, Yeah. it says, which I found quite interesting, "The officials and the NEC may refer to the integrity commission any unethical Yeah.

[00:17:00]or immoral conduct by a member which brings or could bring or has the potential to bring or as a consequence thereof thereof brings the ANC into disrepute."

[00:17:14]>> Yeah. I mean, it opens the gate wide open. It's wide open.

[00:17:20]>> And it's got nothing to do with the law.

[00:17:22]It's not a legal concept.

[00:17:25]It's a It's a concept of morality and integrity. So, the president definitely has the right to drag this case for as long as possible legally.

[00:17:36]But, where does integrity lie? Integrity >> It lies where the country cannot afford to be distracted by dollars in a couch.

[00:17:47]We cannot. We have big problems to sort out. A quarter of the people in this country don't know where their next meal is going to be coming from. We have graduates who have no jobs. But, now we have to be seized with this matter of the president and his dollars in his couch.

[00:18:05]>> I would like to say to you you say you forget that you are interviewing a judge.

[00:18:13]No judge goes to the media and talk about the case that's before the judge. So, I think it's a wrong approach. I can't talk about specific cases. And so, I shouldn't make a mistake of answering you about a particular person.

[00:18:33]I think we should talk about corruption in general and it affects everybody and we need to end corruption. Now, you're going into the case and evidence and etc. I can't go there. Unfortunately.

[00:18:48]>> I'm trying to focus on integrity and not necessarily the legal merits or demerits of the president's case. But, I understand that >> a judge to come and talk to you about a case that's in court. It's a It's a It would be so wrong. So, I'm saying compromised leaders should not be in leadership.

[00:19:12]Uh and there there if you talk about the organization, it it has its own standards. You just read that paragraph there.

[00:19:22]No one, even those who may, you know what I'm talking about, you must block it and make sure it doesn't happen. And the only way to do that is to have an effective system. But you know what?

[00:19:36]They then go and corrupt the police themselves. I mean, this much as younger commission. So so far the reverend has blamed the police, he's blamed the apartheid government, he's blamed business, capitalist as he calls them, blamed everybody for why the integrity commission doesn't stand for integrity.

[00:19:57]But the journalist is not going to let him off the hook that easy. She comes back.

[00:20:04]The fish, they say, rots from the head.

[00:20:06]>> Of course, yeah, that's what happened.

[00:20:09]And that's why we are where we are. Uh we had a compromised president before.

[00:20:14]Yeah. The Guptas captured the president and therefore the job was done. That's all they had to do. Yeah.

[00:20:20]>> We have a compromised president today.

[00:20:23]And my suggestion is if we are decisive with the leadership that is compromised, the rest will be easy. Well, ma'am, >> The rest will be easy.

[00:20:40]>> this matter because I can see you keep on coming back to it. Give the president a chance to prove himself.

[00:20:49]And he argues he is innocent.

[00:20:53]And let him prove himself. We can't stop him and say give him just walk away because it means you are actually walking away with a cloud behind you. So let the president follow the process to prove himself, to show that what you are saying is not true. And it's up to him.

[00:21:15]And so, I wouldn't want us to pass judgment on the basis of what the media says.

[00:21:23]We must pass judgment on the basis of evidence before us. And and that review will actually test that. And the impeachment will deal with that later.

[00:21:37]My view is we should renew the system, transform it, uh reach a stage where you can say at least even if somebody is corrupt, it's not a permissible thing.

[00:21:52]Because people reached that stage where they thought getting a tender when you don't qualify and you buy a civil servant, now it's more civil servants than political leaders. It has gone that far.

[00:22:06]And and black young business people I say it is more difficult to do business as a young black business person because they make you pay everywhere. That's what they are telling me, young business people. So, we need to end this.

[00:22:25]But we shouldn't we shouldn't end up being caught in controversy about one person and then spend more time there and the criminals are assisting to get rid of that person so that they can put their person and then continue with the corruption. I think there's no party, by the way. I've told other parties there's no party that will escape this.

[00:22:53]Unless we as the people of South Africa say, "No." Yes. And that's where I'm going to. It's mobilization of people, make sure they understand corruption pays for now.

[00:23:09]Because you've got a corrupted police force. Blame everybody except the chair of the integrity commission who's supposed to hold the ANC to a high moral standard even if they've not been found legally guilty. There were 97 names that were implicated in state capture. Yeah.

[00:23:30]>> That were supposed to appear um at the integrity commission. Have they How many of them have appeared? We we dealt with a few of them. And those who didn't come, we referred them to the NEC to deal with them.

[00:23:45]And at that point, you need to ask them what they did with them. The NEC? Yeah.

[00:23:51]So, if you have a compromised NEC, do you think they will be enthusiastic about taking any action?

[00:23:59]>> They're likely people there who are doing their best. I think that change is happening.

[00:24:06]It takes long. Unfortunately, you got to to destroy a system, it's easy, but to rebuild it, it's not easy.

[00:24:15]It takes long, but I think we are getting there. So, I'm one of those who believe that we are actually getting there. Those who are corrupt are under siege.

[00:24:27]And those who are still in the systems are feeling uncomfortable.

[00:24:33]And that's what we need to do. But, you're not going to deal with it overnight. It's a huge damage that has been done. Uh so, the ANC's leader of society, it became leader of society, but it was it was taken down for a number of years. It's coming up again.

[00:24:55]And we need to make sure that it remains leader of society. That's why this This is too huge a machinery.

[00:25:03]When you walk away, it doesn't stop.

[00:25:06]And those of us who decided we must stop this because you can't stop it from outside.

[00:25:14]Those who are outside are just observing like yourself observing what's happening. You can't do anything. But those who are inside have a duty to make sure that this huge machine is cleaned up and that it serves the people. And in the last few years, you can see change.

[00:25:35]I mean, for now we deal with service delivery. Why if there is water running in the street, why is it there? Why is it not dealt with? I can show you I can show you the emails that deal with that on a daily basis. Maybe from your vantage point, you can see change. But >> Yeah. from an outside and ordinary citizen's point of view, Yeah.

[00:25:56]>> we just see more and more allegations piling up and our quality of life not improving. Yeah. And the the weakness or the weakness of the ANC now is that it is not telling [clears throat] the story about the change. But it's not also the weakness of the ANC. It's the media.

[00:26:20]The media is not interested in the story about change.

[00:26:24]They are more interested in the story about crisis. Hi, [clears throat] Reverend. No, Reverend. Please, Reverend. Yeah.

[00:26:32]>> But of the people that have come before you, I don't want you to talk about specific cases, but just your analysis.

[00:26:39]I know I've heard the counterrevolutionary argument that you've made. But what is your assessment of why people go down this road of immorality, besides counterrevolutionary forces that you've mentioned earlier.

[00:26:53]>> Let's talk about human beings, but human beings always take the route that's with less resistance.

[00:27:02]And if I'm poor and somebody comes to help me, the likelihood is that people go in that direction. But the people that have come before you are, with due respect, not poor.

[00:27:14]All of them.

[00:27:15]By the way, rich people still Sorry. Not like poor poor in the moment.

[00:27:21]It's not like, yeah, it's not like um they they want more money. I'm amazed.

[00:27:27]I'm in my dear wife always says, you know, "I have a whore." I have a >> They never get filled.

[00:27:35]They keep on stealing. Even if they've stolen billions, they keep on stealing.

[00:27:41]So, you can't stop it by observing and complaining. You need to deal with it.

[00:27:46]How? Yeah, but that's what we are doing now. That's why I am saying to you, so even if you clean the system, you will still have uh a baggage that come along and you need to clean that.

[00:27:59]And this is where we are at the present moment. I've said to the Youth League, if you you must be the Lembede Youth League, you know, the 1940 Youth League that changed the ANC. The ANC of the '50s, '60s is the one that was saved by the Youth League. I said you either choose to be a Lembede Youth League or you join the rot and destroy the ANC completely.

[00:28:29]And so, the message is going there. It's only that it's not headlines. Oh, this is wonderful. I was getting so stressed in this interview, but Reverend Frank Chikane has told the young thugs to stop stealing and be lambasted. Please, text someone, email someone, call a friend, tell them Reverend Frank Chikane has spoken to the Youth League. He lambasted them. And guys, as we speak now, they heard him. They are canceling every corrupt tender they involved in. They calling people telling them, "Don't pay that invoice anymore. Please ignore that contract. I have been lambasted by Reverend Frank Chikane. Guys, SOUTH AFRICA IS SORTED. TELL SOMEBODY THAT Reverend Frank Chikane has spoken to the young thugs. We are now sorted. Finally.

[00:29:32]I thought it would never end.

[00:29:34]>> [laughter] >> So, Reverend Frank Chikane I've known since childhood because he was in the struggle and my late father, right above me there, was arrested and tortured by the apartheid government, as I talk about in this video. And so, please be advised, what I'm about to say is not personal, but I just want to bring your eyes to a certain voice that part of how God judges wickedness. And so, my biblical reaction. Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about 400 men, and said to them, "Shall I go against Ramoth-Gilead to fight or shall I refrain?" So, they said, "Go up, for the Lord will deliver it into the hand of the king." The ANC will get cleaned up. And Jehoshaphat said, "Is there not still a prophet of the Lord here that we may inquire of him? Is there a truthful voice that we could listen to?" So, the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "There's still one man, Micaiah, the son of Imlah, by whom we may inquire of the Lord, but I hate him because he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil."

[00:30:57]One of the voices that's responsible for the downfall of the ANC, and it's also a shame when it is the prophets who claim the ANC is good, ANC is doing right, BEE is good. The corruption is all a mistake. If only the police, if only this, only that, if only the counter-revolutionaries could always saying good. And then you have voices that come and say the ANC is rotten by philosophy, is unsaveable, is a corrupt organization by ideology, by thinking, by culture. It is corrupt in its bloodstream. So, all of its tissues, every part of the ANC is corrupt. It is African National Corruption. Even if it has a reverend in it claiming to stand for integrity, telling people to think of lambada And here's what will happen when you hear a voice that will say what I just said, what you'll hear is, "I hate him because he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil." And this dynamic always leads to a downfall. The ANC is rotten, cannot save itself, will never be clean, can never be competent. It's a mess from the ground up. I'm sorry to say. Many people struggle with this because of what they've already poured into the ANC, [clears throat] and so they become victims of the sunken cost fallacy. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be mean. It's just I have to tell the truth. And sometimes the truth is that something is evil. And so, you have a choice. You can listen to the false prophets that say this is all wonderful.

[00:32:55]It's just mistakes here and there.

[00:32:58]Or you can listen to true prophets who say this thing is evil. And you can hate them, but you can't change the truth.

[00:33:07]THAT'S WHY I ALWAYS SAY NO MAN CAN serve two masters. For either love the one or hate the other or you'll despise the one and honor the other. You cannot serve God and Karl Marx. Woo! Let's make history together.

[00:33:20]Cheers.