Xenophobia and tribalism in Africa stem from systemic issues including corruption, unemployment, and inequality, which cause frustrated South Africans to scapegoat other Africans rather than addressing the root causes; healing requires genuine dialogue, understanding each other's histories, and working together as Africans rather than competing against each other.
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The Truth About South Africa That Most Africans Never Discuss | Radical Truth
Added:going straight right in, [music] you know.
Yeah, we're live. We're live. [music] [music] [music] >> [music] >> Hey everybody. I see a lot of people joining us here. I see a lot of people on Instagram are joining us there.
Welcome everybody. I see people here on Tik Tok. Uh we are live on Tik Tok, Mika Chavala. We're live on uh Instagram, Mika Chavala. We're live on uh YouTube, Swahili Nation. And we're live on Facebook page, Swahili Nation. It's good to have everybody.
It's good to It's good to have everybody here. Welcome. I'm here with my brother Phineas, my twin brother. How are you, man?
>> My brother, I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm good. I don't I don't feel like going back to South Africa now. I feel I feel more African. [laughter] >> You better You better tell them. You You better tell them which side of Africa you are in right now. You better tell >> listen listen I'm in the land of Rolex you know so if you enjoy eating Rolex you should know where I'm at >> you know I'm in the palm of Africa now Uganda [clears throat] >> um you know I called Wakanda forever >> now >> you know so I'm with my people [laughter] >> I'm with my people >> you get a time to meet with gorilla there >> h not yet bro um I don't think I want I don't think I want to mess with those brothers You know, I I I I respect nature, man. [laughter] >> Yeah, you you you have to you have to, man, because I think Ronda, not Ronda, Uganda, they're really famous at that.
I've been there. I I think one of my favorite place I love the most about Uganda is Antebe. Antebe is my favorite.
I've been to Kala, but Antebe, it is the best for me, >> you know. And and it's super I I love how green it is, you know? It's like wow.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And is like that. It's um >> And I love that it's not it's not too crowded, right? Like um you know, you can you can actually get a fresh air and I love the the the Lake Victoria view.
It's there greenish everywhere. It's um it's amazing. It's perfect to visit there.
No, to be honest with you, I haven't seen a lot of Uganda, you know. I think I think I'm excited to explore as long as I'm here, as long as my here >> uh I'm going to I'm going to I'm I'm going to explore this country, >> you know. Before I explore Europe and other places, I need to explore my own my own place.
>> But let me let me let me warn you, my twin, let me warn you.
>> If you're going to come to Tanzania, let me just warn you. I think you'll be going back to Uganda to park and move here. So, [laughter] please don't do that. Don't come here if you're not serious about it. All right? You might be coming here for a vacation and then end up being a citizen of this country.
>> Listen, if if your if your food is good and your music is good, >> you know, you know, please, you know, you know, I'm I'm all in. I'm all in, you know, but >> you Yes.
>> Yeah. But it's also very funny, right?
because >> you you know what we are the Bandu people.
>> Um it's very funny how similar my culture is with with a lot of people in Uganda, >> you know.
>> Yeah.
>> From from [clears throat] the mannerism, you know, from some of the words that they say and I'll be like, >> "What?" [clears throat] you know, so so I'm I'm slowly, you know, getting getting into, >> you know, um >> almost feels like I've I've I'm finding who I am, >> you know, but but not the fruit so much, but the root of, >> you know, who I am as part of the Bondu people. So, so it's been very fascinating, you know, to >> realize and feel that. So, so I feel at home, man.
>> But also because the people here >> have have have have made me feel at home, you know, very hospitable.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> Um, it's been it's been been a blessing [laughter] >> uh to be here as a South African with everything that is happening down there.
>> Well, let me ask you this. Nobody's torturing you there. So like you keep >> pushing our people. Nobody like you didn't have that.
>> You you know when the Bible says do not touch my anointed ones.
[laughter] >> No no no.
>> I'm I'm I'm I'm a citizen of heaven before a citizen of Africa. [laughter] and and your anoint and your your anointing is double, you know, double double double. [laughter] So even >> I don't I don't I don't I don't think it's even that. I think I think you know um being a missionary you know knowing how to be with people >> you know not as a colonizer but as a as a as somebody that sees himself in other people not as a savior >> but as somebody that sees himself in people um and having a level of compassion and understanding >> uh it kind of helps you become one with the people >> um and also my wife has been here before me for 9 Yeah. So, they love her. Um, and I feel like, you know, she's she's she's John the Baptist who prepared a way for me to be here. Um, and and [laughter] they love her >> away for and they love her and they have told me some of them, do not take our Victoria away from us. And I'm like, >> wow. You know, >> wow.
>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, we I think both of us are just blessed to be here. But but I think also we are here because we are called here.
>> We're not here because >> we we are here. We are here because the Lord has called us into this nation to >> to to do great things with his people.
So so so so yeah, don't worry. I'm I'm I'm I'm safe. I'm I'm I'm safe.
[laughter] >> That's that's good. That's good, man.
That's that's really nice. I remember last time we had a conversation here.
Uh, by the way, our conversation, it was very productive. Um, yeah, I've been sharing with you comments here and there and I think you've been going through the comments to see the response from the people. I think I think I didn't find a single negative comment about you and all the comments were talking about you. I I even felt a little bit offended that, you know, nobody's [laughter] talking about me. You know, did you see the guys I was I brought this up. I brought [laughter] here but you guys are not saying anything about me you know but but but then at the end of the day I was like this this is Martin man if they talk about him they talk about me as well right jokes aside but um there's a huge positive response to what you are standing for what you were saying and I think the comments I see is that this guy is genius this guy is brilliant I've never met a South African like this so I was surprised that perhaps people like you you're not really going front line and you know advocating about your country, advocating about your ideas.
perhaps things uh or news or people that are getting air time are those who um you know opposite to you know to you and and and I think in the world of social media today we're giving so much attention to negativity >> and and you know it's what we're giving power but our conversation was like >> a breath uh a fresh air right and um and and people they actually they were surprised that wow and and I saw some comments from other you know some other you know negative side like no no no no this guy is not South African just because of how you you know you narrate your thoughts and how you were radical uh to talk about both sides and everything what did you think about you know I I think we can start talking about the comments we've seen and maybe we can you know as you're sharing I can go through some few comments and we can take on from there >> brother I think I think what I can say is that you know I represent a a lot of people in South Africa who are against afrophobia or xenophobia or tribalism or nationalism. Um I'm just one of many, >> you know. So South Africa has more than 62 million people, >> you know. Um >> yeah, >> unfortunately [clears throat] the media sometimes focuses in a on a very small group of people.
>> Um who are rightfully frustrated with our government >> and unfortunately that ends up being amplified by the media because bad news sells, right? If you want more clicks, >> you got to follow bad news, >> you know. But there are there are some amazing people in South Africa who are standing with um their brothers and sisters, you know, either through providing transport or providing food or providing shelter, you know, to make the pain a little bit easier to carry, >> you know. So, please know that what you see on social media does not represent every South African that looks like me.
There are a lot of people hating this, >> but also people need to understand that there are a lot of frustrated South Africans because of >> the corruption and the inequality and the unemployment in our country, >> you know, and in situations like that, you always find a scapegoat >> and the scapegoat is usually the weakest person in the community >> who cannot fight for themselves, >> you know. And like I said before, I'm a Christian, you know. Um, I'm not saying what I say for applause >> or for people to like me.
>> I stand for the truth if I have to stand on my own.
>> You know what I'm saying?
>> You know, and like I said, I'm I'm I'm I leave from heaven to earth. You know, I I I'm somebody that believes >> who believes in Jesus and and and I believe that every single person deserves to be treated with >> dignity. Um, and by dehumanizing other human beings, I'm dehumanizing myself because I'm connected to those individuals, no matter where they come from.
>> You know what I'm saying? So, I think for me it has a lot to do with my belief system >> and how I was raised >> and my faith which forms every part of my life, whether it's politics, >> whether it's whatever, I am moved by my beliefs >> um and my relationship with God in terms of how I see people. So >> I'm not saying what I say because I want people to like me. The truth is the truth. You cannot it but also at the same time people need people need to understand that >> there are realities of unemployment in South Africa. There are realities of corruption in South Africa. There are frustrations in South in South Africa that South Africans are frustrated with >> um and unfortunately um illegal foreigners as they call them are a people who are catching the bullet >> you know because they don't have the protection >> that some of the South Africans do have.
Um, so I've seen the comments, you know, some some South Africans don't like me.
[snorts] Um, because I think we have >> I thought that I thought that was the reason why you run away from South Africa. Now you're in Uganda.
>> Nah, nah, no, no. I'm I'm I'm I'm proud I'm proudly South African. I'm proudly South African who believes in the spirit of Ubuntu, >> of humanity. And there's a lot of >> Yeah. There's a lot of us in South Africa who wants to carry on the legacy of Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu, you know, and fight for the dignity of of every single person in the world.
Because remember, like I said the last time >> when we were going through oppression and marginalization and all this bad things in the world, >> Tanzania was there for us. You know, Nigeria was there for us, Ghana was there for us, Mozambi was there for us, Zimbabwe was there for us. So who am I to turn around and say you guys must leave you know um because >> of whatever you know like right now I work in refugee in Uganda >> you know and I'm working with people from Sudan and Congo >> you know and I get to understand why people actually leave their countries it's not because >> you know I want to be in South Africa people are facing war you know >> um um but also >> as you know you We have a very big leadership problem in Africa that I believe need to be sorted out because >> if you're my neighbor >> and I'm doing well >> and you're not doing well eventually you're going to cross over, >> you know. Yeah. And it's very important as African African countries to make sure that if I'm doing well as a country, I need to make sure that my neighboring country is doing well because if I'm fed and you are hungry, eventually you're going to cross over because you want to be fed. So I think I think I think we need to get to a point where African leaders work together. And that's why I appreciate this relationship with you because I get to learn about your country. You get to learn [clears throat] about my country and we get to build a continent that is more united than it is divided.
>> Um and understanding that there are internal forces and external forces who are trying to >> Yeah. Yeah. You know 100%. I think we'll be able to solve a lot of issues in Africa in our countries. you know in our family I think you know this better than I do. uh if we just sit down and have a conversation genuine conversation you know our our first conversation he started because you you know you reached out you know you saw my video on Tik Tok and then you reached out you say brother I think there's something you're getting wrong about this you know and you know and then I reached out and then we had conversation and then found out that we are twins you know I did not ask my my my dad anything about you but um because I know that we as Africa because I know we as Africa You know we are one people and we have so much in common. Yes. You know you might go you might move from South Africa to Uganda and then you can have culture shock.
It's possible to have culture shock cuz these are you know totally like this is south this is east you know two separate parts you know different parts you know from the continent. Uh but at the same time we have a lot of things in common.
So if we can just sit down and have a genuine and honesty conversation about you know the issues that are happening in our continent and in our families I believe we'll be able to solve a lot of issues and that's why exactly me and you are doing here.
>> Yeah. And and and I want to I want to emphasize on that because the minute people stop talking injustice starts.
>> Yeah. You know a lot of the issues that we face in Africa all over all over the world require dialogue >> you know but when people don't feel heard they'll go to the street and bend ties >> you know so we need to master dialogue and uncomfortable dialogue >> that is not about you know pleasing each other but saying hey this thing is wrong and together this is how we can solve it >> you know what I'm saying so it is not about >> being right or being wrong. But it's about, you know, we see things differently, >> but how can we get to the position where we lay down our weapons, >> you know, and and and we see each other as human beings >> and speak about the root of the problem, not the fruit, >> you know, >> not the branches. [clears throat] >> What is the root of the problem?
>> You know what I'm saying? Because a lot of times I feel like we are so focused on symptoms that we're not willing to have uncomfortable conversations about what is creating all of these things, you know, and like I said before, everything falls and rises on leadership.
>> If our leadership is not good, if the soil is not good, every seed that gets planted is going to bear a bad fruit.
>> And that's where we need to start. We need to start with the soil. We need to start with the roots >> and those are beliefs, those are values, those are leadership, those are things that have happened during colonization that we haven't dealt with and healed from, you know, intergenerational trauma, historical trauma, you [clears throat] know, >> we are healing, we are still a healing continent. That's why when me and you poke each other, we we react very quickly. But the problem is not the person that poked you. [clears throat] The problem is that you are still wounded and you haven't found the opportunity to heal. And what me and you need to do is create a safe environment of dialogue >> where me and you can heal together where I learn your history and you learn my history >> and not the history of chains, right?
Not the history of chains.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> But the history of crowns >> even before that. The history of crowns, you know, like >> who were we? You know, >> come on. Repeat that, brother. Repeat that. [laughter] >> Repeat that.
>> You know, not the history of chains, but the history of crowns.
[laughter] >> Yeah.
>> You know, because we wear >> history chains. The history of crowns.
All right.
>> Yeah. Because we were people, you know, we were people before somebody told us that we were savages.
>> Yeah. you know and and now we have dehumanized or we have been dehumanized so much that we dehumanizing each other you know >> that's why people like Julius they call it self hate you know >> um it is selfhate because we were taught to hate ourselves >> and I was taught that you are better than me and I'm better than you >> when we actually just bleed in the same >> you know what I'm saying so >> it goes back to learning history as well which which is what I'm learning right now and that's Why >> the more I'm in Uganda, the more I'm affirmed of who I am as an African, >> you know, not as a South African, as an African, >> you know, uh that my roots run deeper than >> South Africa, >> you know, South Africa is not where my >> roots are. Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know, my roots run deeper than South Africa. You know, >> and and and because they run deeper than South Africa, >> if you are hurt, >> I cannot be okay. M >> because my roots are connected to >> you know >> you know we always say that if you know if your neighbor is not at peace you cannot be at peace >> you know what I'm saying if your neighbor is at peace you can be at peace you like you know this this concept this mindset of I mean we have even this in leadership if you if we shift a little bit that uh people they love accumulating wealth for themselves right like you know they're proud to be like a single billionaire in the country in the nation but you know that that is not actually who we are it's not who we are as Africans you know if if if I am a billionaire if you are a billionaire if another person is a billionaire if another person is a billion you know you understand how it is but if I'm the only one then you know how how it is in our community like you see people begging us all the time because because this is how we were raised this is this is how our cultures are right colonialism of course can mess things up a little bit and that's why you say it's really important to learn about history a history before the chains you know before we became slaves we were queens and kings right and and that is what we have to go back and to learn about that I mean I' I've been really surprised a lot of times you know my trip to South Africa like when I came to South Africa first time all the time when I visit African countries what I do is this the first thing when I get there >> I go to the museum I go to the museum to learn the history of those countries and I try to learn not about colonialism but before that how these people live in here. Where did these people come from?
One of the country that I was really fascinated with was when I went to Zambia. First of all, of course, I was stopped at the borders, right? So, I had to sleep at the borders for 24 hours >> and then we don't need visa to enter to Zambia.
>> I remember that story.
Yeah. [laughter] >> But when I went there and I went to the museum, I found out that, you know, I found out that these people like I I couldn't find the native Zambians.
>> And then I was told that >> people that are here, they're actually not native.
People that are here are from Cameroon, are from Congo, are from Tanzania, are from like all these different count.
Literally Zambia, it is the combination of so many African countries together, African people together.
>> Yeah, >> it's there.
>> Yeah. I mean, I was like, man, >> there's there's even Zulus there. Some people were surprised, you know, that there were people who are wearing like Zulus and somebody was like, why are you stealing our culture? No, they're not stealing your culture. You're just not aware that there are people who look like you in this country, [snorts] you know. So, so, so, so, so and and I think what what you're saying about cuz I remember I come from the north of the country. I come from Alimpopo.
Um, and then I came I went down to Cape Town. And when I went to Cape Town or before I went to Captown, you know, people would would say, you know, when you get to Cape Town, there's there's there's there's there's colored people um as as some people call them in South Africa, which is a group of people that we have. And one of the things that they were saying is that do not date or or be part of these people because they are labeled or classified as criminals.
Um and being a journalist or somebody that has studied journalism, what has helped me a lot is to have a level of curiosity. Um I don't leave from people experiences. I create my own experiences and I don't make judgments about people who I never met. So what I did when I got to Cape Town is that I went to a um a place called um district 6 where colored people uh different groups of people used to live together.
And when I went there, I got to understand a little bit of apartate, you know, and force removals. how people were moved from um um you know district 6 to cape flat and how that itself created a lot of insecurities and a lot of fear which gave birth to gangsterism you know and then drugs were involved, guns were involved and all these things I say them to say it is important to understand the soil before you plant the seed. Um, I don't know if you're still there and if you can hear me.
Can you hear me?
Yeah. So, so, so, so >> yes, I can hear you loud and clear.
>> Yeah. So, so is Yeah, you disappeared a little bit, but I was like, you know what, we have a lot of people who are listening to this. So, we all good. Um, so, so what what I realized is that before I can work with colored people, I need to understand the soil. I need to understand who they are as people. Uh not as criminals, not as drug addicts, not as people who are forcibly removed and put into another area, but who were these people before they were treated like they don't belong where where they are. And and the minute I understood who colored people are, then I had a better way of working with them.
Because remember, I'm from South Africa.
I'm I'm from the northern part of South Africa. Um and I lived on the farm. I've never experienced uh aparate or racism um until I came down to Cape Town and then I understood systemic racism. Um so it is very important uh for people to understand where >> people come from before they even get involved with them because what we get wrong a lot of times is that we don't know who or what we are working with >> you know and we become that doctor that gives people medication without understanding their medical history >> and I think for me we need to engage with people based on >> who are you and where do you come from uh because that informs Yeah.
>> Um how you should engage or even how you should greet them, >> you know. Uh but unfortunately we live in a society where >> before I come to Tanzania, >> you know, somebody will tell me about your tribe >> or I will go on Google >> and then I'll find out something about Tanzania and then I will not come to Tanzania because I listen to Google.
>> So much negative information.
>> You know what I'm saying? And then when I come to your country then I get shocked because what is written >> what is written there and what the reality is on the ground >> is not the same >> you know >> um and I'll give you an example with M23 you know >> with what is happening in Congo you know a lot of what is communicated on media what is happening in GMA and you go there you like >> and and we we we don't realize that information is >> information is power and people are using information against us.
>> Um, so so I think what I'm trying to say is that it's very important that me and you are informed about history.
>> Um, and we travel, we travel, we travel, we travel, we travel, we travel, we travel. I cannot say this enough. If you have an opportunity to travel this continent, >> don't listen to what you read on Google, >> you know, just go.
>> Yeah. you know, um there's this lady that I follow, uh Sabia, I don't know if you know her, young lady from South Africa. She travels to different parts of the country and she gets to experience different cultures.
>> Um and >> I envy her, you know, because she's she's learning so much from traveling, which I think if we learn to do that as Africans, >> you know, we'll understand each other a little bit better.
Um yeah but we won't now because we don't control the system.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know I what you're saying I actually you know I spoke about that you know in in my book you know when I say free minds you know build free future you know it's basically emphasizing on you know the concepts like that as well. uh free mind like being open to something new, be open to learn, be open to listen, be open to be criticized and to criticize, be open to like to just open up your mind because you don't know and everything like you're not Mr. Knowing it all, right?
Only God knows everything. But we are, you know, when when we when we extend our hearts, you know, towards our neighbor and willing to learn, right? Like how are you guys, you know, surviving? how did you guys get here and now you're there, right? Instead of, you know, pointing fingers at one another, you know, and and and and pushing, you know, one another away. And and and I see the talking about the situation in South Africa. I see the uh you know, the tension is still huge, my brother. I mean, the other day, two days ago, I I sent to you the the news, one of the news that we share, Swahil nation, and it is about the uh 32 African countries that um they can actually visit South Africa without visa. Of course.
>> I saw you were not excited. You were not excited about that. [laughter] >> I was [laughter] you know anyways you know you know what I am what I what I'm what I'm really you know um I'm really fascinated by this is the respond you know of the people. For example, I'll read for you, you know, some of the comments, you know, on on our Instagram. We shared on Salation Network uh that, you know, South Africa right now there's there like 32 African countries that can actually visit uh South Africa without a visa. And some of them just to mention if you guys did not see that news we have Algeria we have Benin we have Botswana Cab Koros Kodiva Gabon Ghana Gina Kenya Leo Madagascar Malawi Mauritius Mozambi Namibia Rwanda stoome and princip sea shells Tanzania Tunisia Zambia Zimbabwe Angola Eswatini Democratic Republic of Congo and Republic of the Congo and then we have Sineaga Uganda Burundi Bkinaasa Somali these are 32 African countries countries can actually go to South Africa without visa. So this okay you usually you know I'm I'm I'm very I'm very excited you know when I see this kind of thing because [laughter] because you know we are fighting for one Africa and I' I've been seeing a lot of list you know coming up people like countries removing visa restriction for this country and that country even my own country has done the same thing uh you know very interesting thing by the way interesting country is South Sudan all right I'm going to build my point but interesting country South Sudan so Sudan what South Sudan did you know they they remove all other countries you know all other African countries that yes they they only left two African countries can go to South Africa you know without visa guess which are those countries is Tanzania and Egypt so they had other list they had they had other African countries but they removed them like other countries are opening up the borders South Sudan they're closing the borders they're like only two countries can come and that is Egypt and Tanzania Well, I'm not happy because I of course I'm in Tanzania. I can go that visa. But then, you know, I am I am concerned about the rest of the countries. I mean, and where we're heading right now cuz everybody's kind of like, you know, like like protecting themselves. Okay.
The most interesting thing is the comments in this. So, I I'll read one thing. Somebody said like the pressure is too much. Another person said we are not coming to there. We are not coming.
And then another person says even if you give us a free flight we won't dare to come. You see [laughter] and somebody says too late damage already done.
Somebody say uh lol de beef Nigeria. So this is Nigerian. He actually wrote in pian English that's really hard. And then another person visa free to go and do what? Another person say on behalf of Tanzanians we say no thank you. Or should I speak for East Africans? And then there's other like comments below that comment. Another person say um okay he say guys let's explore Europe let South Africans stay in their country. All right this is getting out of hand. Somebody else you know he actually tagged the president say president uh Ramaposa visa free access is a welcome principle but it cannot substitute for the safety and dignity of fellow black Africans. Xenophobia attacks continue to cast a shadow over South Africa's leadership, creating a troubling disconnect between polies and reality. True continental leadership begins with ensuring every Africa is protected within your borders. There's like more than 133 likes and there's 11 comments there. People are, you know, open up. Another person said, I think the economy is suffering from their actions and they're using style to look for skilled labors. And then put like laughing emoji. Somebody say nobody's interested with your visa for now.
Somebody say hey I think South Africa opened a visa fee free for animal not human being. All right say so you go there for them to rob you and send you back home. What a cool and legal way of daylight robbery. Anyways there's so many comments. There's more than 3,697 comments on Facebook as well. I'm not going to go over there.
out of that to just build uh this conversation more out of that. I also saw today a video of uh the president of Ghana uh actually talking to the president of uh with his committee talking with the president of Nigeria and their committee to talk about literally like asking African Union to actually you know do something about the situation you know because of all the people and everything. So I just want to hear your thoughts on this. How are we going to get back you know to to that point that you know all of us were talking discussing about the union of Africa and how can we get this but right now we shift that and we are starting attacking one country after another one because of the things that are happening in the ground for me I think I feel like it's the step back of course we are opening up our countries visa free some you know visa removed even Jamaica actually open up with so many African countries but now the conversation has changed. We are no longer talking about one Africa. People actually are believing that you know one Africa is not possible. Look at what South Africa are doing. We are not going to just stand still and do nothing. No. So the conversation has changed and I kind of feel in my heart some someone is happy about it that oh we're winning.
>> You know they were coming too quick.
We're winning.
>> I want to hear your wisdom. Yeah.
>> Married man.
>> Listen I I I it is it is very sad. It's very grieving. But I also understand >> you know that a lot of us are responding from a place of a lot of pain. Uh because the way a lot of our African brothers were removed from South Africa was not dignified. You know they were treated like liter and they have every right to be angry. They have every right to be frustrated. I saw a video of a Mozambique woman. uh she had a saloon, you know, and you know, people came into the store and they told her that she needs to leave, >> you know, and she was like, "What about my stuff?" And they were like, "We'll pay you um I think 10K, >> you know, and then you can leave everything and then you can just go to your country."
>> And this woman has worked very hard.
She's a single mother >> who has worked very hard for 10 years to build a business. and somebody just comes there and say, "Hey, you must just leave our country and then we're gonna take your stuff."
>> That's just that's that's that's crazy for me, >> you know. So, and also South Africans by law, they are not allowed to do that.
They can't go around, you know, asking people for IDs and chasing them out.
That is the that is the work of law enforcement and the work of the police.
>> Um, so I will say first of all, my African brothers and sisters need to know the law. Um and they need to know international law so that they know how to protect themselves. um you know from South Africans who are breaking the law by the way because >> how do you tell me to follow the law when you're breaking the law >> you know how do you tell me that >> you know I'm I'm breaking I'm committing crime in South Africa but you go elute you know uh and break into people's shops you know so there's a lot of hypocrisy that is happen in South Africa when it comes to South Africans and how they engaging with the brothers and sisters from other countries um And to be honest with you, what >> what I can say about all of this is that this is an issue of safety now.
>> You know, because >> this is not only affecting uh my African brothers and sisters from other countries. It is also affecting South Africans now >> because now there are tongas, >> now there are vendors, now there are babies, now they are shanganis who are being mistreated because they look darker and they sound.
>> So now it has become about trialism.
It's not about >> afrophobia anymore. It's about, >> you know, Africans just hating each other because you don't come from my culture. because you don't come from my culture. You shouldn't be working in the same um province that I was born in. So it is it is going is going deeper. It is becoming worse.
>> Uh because the minute South Africans turn against each other, >> who are you who come from another country?
>> You know, if I'm mistreating my own South African who has a South African ID, >> what about somebody else who does not have that? you know, so so, so it requires South African leadership and it requires elders in South Africa and it requires churches in South Africa to come and intervene and say, "Hey, enough is enough. We cannot thrive, you know, or rise by pulling other people down, you know." So, so this is no longer about you, my brother, in Tanzania. This is about me as a South African dealing with my own South African problems, >> you know, of inequality, of unemployment, of corruption within my government, you know, because if I am bleeding, I'm going to make sure that you bleed as well, >> you know, and the closest person that I'm going to bleed on, >> it is it is it is usually my neighbor.
So it has moved away from afrophobia you know away from xenophobia to tribalism right now you know where South Africans are attacking each other because they don't understand that they are bound to people [laughter] you know but this is what apartate has done very well when it comes to black people it has made us think that we are better than others and because we are better than others we need to be the closest one to the fire so that we can feel the warmth and everybody else needs to be cold, you know. So that's why right now what I'm doing is studying history, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> Because my education system has failed me, >> you know. That's why right now I am I'm not I'm not treating myself or walking around proudly as a South African. I'm walking around proudly as a citizen of heaven who is born in Africa who is from South Africa. Um and he is called to engage and work with all people that look like him and even those who do not look like him. So this has become deeper than us hating foreigners. It has become about us hating ourselves, [laughter] >> you know. Um um um and like you said, somebody's some some somebody's happy, >> you know, and and and I I will be honest with you, South Africa right now is a target.
It is a target when it comes to the west >> because of the Israel case uh because of the white genocide misinformation because of the beh to to the west when it comes to human dignity. But the sad thing right now in South Africa is that >> we are supporting you know um countries like you know in in in in in Gaza but we are against our own people.
>> It is crazy that that's that's my brother. That's my brother. It's actually insane because that that is what I've seen happen a lot of time in Africa and especially sometimes because of religion because we are also divided because of religion. And you find people standing up be like, "Hey, you know, Gaza, you know, free whatever this and that." But but here in our continent, >> we have the next neighbor, your your neighboring country is going through something and nobody says nothing about anything, you know, but you know, they are willing to say something about, you know, far away from there, but we we cannot even stand for ourselves. I mean >> and and and that and and that is that is something that does that that that is something that is going to be used against us at some point.
>> Uh it's like how can we be against a part date but treat each other as Africans?
[laughter] >> Like like like some people are less human beings. You going around asking people for their IDs the same way.
You were asked you were asked for a dump pass and telling people that they don't belong here, they belong there. And now we want to say we were against apartate but we are not against the same systems that we are using right now to oppress other people. I believe in law. I'm a lawabiding citizen. But the law is not there to dehumanize.
The law is there to hold people accountable. But even if you are you have done you have killed or you have done crazy things >> the law still protects you and still wants you to be treated with dignity. So we cannot dehumanize people because they're not legal.
>> That is not us as black people bondu people who believe in buntu you know it's not who we are >> you know it is against every principle and how we were raised in villages you know. So, so when when people say they were against aparate, but they support um um xenophobia and afrophobia um and and and tribalism and nationalism. I'm like you you a traitor you know uh because you cannot tell me that you against what Israel is doing to Palestine. You are against aparate but still dehumanize your brother and sister that looks like you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's it's [laughter] that's a very interesting point you raised brother. Uh it is you know you know I'm thinking about this I I've been thinking about this for a while now for the past 10 years and and um and and that's why some of them I wrote I wrote in the book I actually have four books that I wrote so far and some of them are going to come in the near future by the way congratulations congratulations >> I appreciate brother I appreciate I appreciate that that means a lot um actually one of them I dedicated for xenophobia or aphroia So for that book, I'm definitely like when I see you, I'm definitely going to show you cuz you have to you have to go through it and if there's any um anything that you would like, you know, to to to to correct me or even to add, you know, I will share with you so that you know, we can uh you know, we can dive deep into that. It'll be verying actually.
>> You you reminded me of the book that is one of my favorite books of of um uh Steve B. I write I write what I like, >> you know. Okay. And it's about black consciousness, >> you know. Um, it's about loving yourself as a as an African.
>> It is about >> being proud, not prideful.
>> Um, it is about, you know, >> loving yourself to the point where >> you cannot, you know, treat somebody else with hate, you know. So, so I I think I think if we ever going to heal this continent, >> we need to start loving ourselves because we give to people what we can, >> you know.
>> Yeah.
>> If I'm disrespectful towards you is because I have disrespected myself >> and I [clears throat] if I hate you is because I've hated myself first.
>> So, whatever I carry, I give to you. So if we're going to heal this continent and we're going to become one, we need to be one with self first >> before we can be one with others.
>> You know, we need to be aware of ourself first before we can be aware of the humanity of others.
>> Because often times we treat others the way we treat ourselves.
>> And for me everything starts with personal responsibility of people looking themselves in the mirror and say how am I treating myself? because that will translate into how you treat other people. But to go deeper, you need to go into your value and belief system and ask yourself, >> what do you believe?
>> You know, because imagine me and you being Christians and saying we love God but mistreating his image.
>> It doesn't work like that. You know, like somebody somebody said, you know, to be racist is to hate God, >> you know.
>> You know, and I will say to be xenophobic, it is to hate God, >> you know.
>> Um, um, you know, to be afrophobic is to hate God. To be a tribalist is to hate God. Yes, God created diversity, but he didn't create diversity to look down on each other's uniqueness.
>> Yeah. Because the uniqueness of us and the difference of us is supposed to complement and bring us together, not divide us, but actually, >> you know, embrace and be wowed by how different your culture is and how that compliments my own culture as well.
>> You know, you know, the matter of fact, you know, I kind of feel like we we we're letting God down. I mean, God will never, you know, will never go down. But what I mean is he actually trusted us with this diversity knowing that you know my people will be able to handle it. My people will be able to manage it.
That's why he says love one another. You know love your neighbor as you love yourself. So everything I mean you you said very well back then that uh you know what is happening in South Africa.
It has the root cause analysis of what is happening. It has to do with everything with people as like me as a South African. It has to do to deal with me as an African, me as a me as a if I call myself Tanzanian. Cuz if I I don't love myself. If I don't value myself, it is impossible to value others. And that is what scares me. What scares me, brother, is not about kicking Africans away from South Africa, but what scares me is what is inside of these people.
What is in their mind? It's not about kicking them because that is the that is actually the outcome of of of the damage.
>> And I'll say I'll say this to you. I'll say this to you. It's not about jobs, bro.
>> It is not about that. [laughter] >> It is not about that.
>> It's not it's not about jobs. You know, it is not about it's not it is deeper.
You know, unemployment, crime, all these things are symptoms of something deeper that we are >> something deeper within.
>> Exactly. You know, and look at blame on other people. Exactly. It's like what has happened here that we need to heal because that's why I'm saying that the reason why Africa is the way it is is because we keep on putting band-aids on issues that needs a surgery. We keep on nursing.
>> Yeah.
>> We keep on nursing things.
>> We keep on nursing things that are not really the problem.
>> You know what I'm saying? But we keep on nursing things because nursing makes us profit. Symptoms make us profit. So why would I solve a problem that makes me money?
>> Why would I solve if it makes me money?
Why would I solve racism if it makes me money? Why would I solve all these injustices if they make me money?
>> I won't.
>> It's about this.
>> People are making money out of what is happening in South Africa right now.
[snorts] You know, so that's why people are complacent. That's why people will be silent because if me and you speak out, we we we we we are at a threat of losing the bag, [laughter] you know, and that's another issue in Africa is like a lot of us are afraid to be whistleblowers. A lot of us are afraid to be radical, you know, and I tell people this all the time. Yo, >> if [laughter] if you think following God is easy, I don't know what God you're following.
You know, because the disciples that I'm learning about >> the disciples that followed Jesus died for the truth, >> you know. They were not they were not they were not they were not they were not kumbaya, you know. No, they were like they were really radical people who stood for what is right. And we need to get to a place where where we stop hating people like Julius, you know, where we stop hating people like Troy, you know, people who are drawing the line and putting boundaries and say, "You're not going to treat me like that.
If you want me to respect you, you better respect me." You know what I'm saying? But people are not used to black men standing up for themselves and having the confidence to say, "You're not going to speak with me like that." I mean, I have I have I have white friends. I love them. They love me. But they know there's a line that you cannot cross when it comes to feniors. You know, you're not going to speak with me like I'm a black person.
>> You're going to speak with me like I'm a human being.
>> A human being. Yeah. That's right.
[laughter] >> You know, because I am not a black man.
>> I'm a human being in this body >> who somebody died for that you go and worship every single Sunday. You know what I'm saying? You know, so we have to awaken ourselves to who we really are as people because the minute we awaken ourselves into a sense of sunship, >> a lot of us will walk around like kings and queens and not like beggars.
>> Oh yeah.
>> You know, you know what I'm saying? So, so but unfortunately >> is a king.
>> Unfortunately, that is a threat.
>> Unfortunately, that is a threat. And that's why I tell people that I respect people who died during a date and during colonization for speaking out more than people who are kept alive to be puppets.
>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Of course. Of course. Of course. It's a >> because anybody because anybody who was kept alive was kept alive to be used.
>> You know you know and and and that's the thing in South Africa. We have political freedom. Great.
You know, I I love what Nelson Mandela has done, but I think a lot of us have failed him because we didn't finish. You know, that's why his book said, "Long walk to freedom." Long walk to freedom.
We are still working towards >> freedom. And what what is that? It it is it is spiritual freedom at it at its at its its core, but also there's social and there's economic freedom that we have not obtained as South Africans. Um, and that's why when I when I'm in Uganda and I see people that work that look like me >> like millionaires, [laughter] >> you know, owning their own shops, like doing things for themselves, I'm like, >> I'm jealous because in South Africa a lot of us, we fought for political freedom, but we didn't fight for ownership.
>> Yeah. and and and and you know and I kind of feel like I honestly Oh my goodness. Yes. Oh, thank you.
>> And here's the thing. What and here's the thing. What is the point of the seed if I don't have the land?
>> I will eat the seed. That will be food.
>> If you if you teach me how to fish, but you don't give me the river and the ocean to go and fish, what is the point of you teaching me how to fish?
>> Teaching me.
You taught me how to fish. But where am I going to fish?
>> Where am I going to fish? I'm going to end up buying fish from you because you didn't give me a damn river.
>> All right. This is is is capitalism.
That's one of the things that we fighting in Africa.
>> You know, [laughter] I think I think I'm just I'm just Okay. Okay. Hear me out.
You can correct me if I'm wrong. I think I I've just started to figure out what is the issue here. So, okay. Do you think the issue is that these people South Africans who are kicking away other Africans, do you think they are really upset with the system that you know their lands are owned by somebody else and looking at Africans coming in they kind of feel like okay it's the same thing happening like so but we cannot do anything about side a these you know white minority but we can do something about these guys who are coming here and are threatening us you know they're taking our job they're taking you know our businesses are taking do you think somehow it's connected cuz I kind of feel like you know somewhere it's connected that there's this frustration that they are supposed to be channeling somewhere else okay the government failed them you know the people who pick up the baton after Mandela they did not do their part to finish that the long walk to freedom so they are frustrated at this they're frustrated at the environment that we're not owning land we're not doing this and that but Look at this. These are other Africans are coming here. They're becoming richer than us. They're owning business and we're working for them. Who who the heck are you? No. Get out. But the main issue is here. [laughter] >> Yeah.
>> These Africans are collateral damage. Do you think that is what is happening?
>> There's two sides of it. There's there's failure of leadership when it comes to South Africa. We have that. We have that failure of leadership, >> you know, and and and that failure of leadership has made the laws of South Africa very corruptible, >> you know, um it's easy to bribe. Um and and we have a lot of incompetent people within our government, >> uh who don't know what they're really doing >> and they have made it so hard for people to travel between borders uh to the point where you need to bribe in order to travel between borders, you know. So there's a lot of exploitation that is happening but exploitation happens because of >> we have corrupt leaders.
>> Um and then capitalism came in and was like okay there's a lot of vulnerability here. How can I capitalize >> out of this trauma and out of this exploitation that is happening?
>> That's why you have South Africans who are frustrated with the leaders. But you also have a capitalist system that's profiting out of the exploitation and the vulnerability of African brothers and sisters who are coming to the country to work. But also what we need to look at is that the system of South Africa when it comes to social development >> and comparing it to to to Africans who come to the country who are wired to not wait on the government to do things for them, >> you know, but have land at their [clears throat] call to do things for themselves.
>> They don't come to South Africa looking for a job. They're coming to South Africa to look for an opportunity to create businesses for themselves because when I am in Uganda right now, Ugandans are entrepreneurial people, >> right? They are entrepreneurial people and that is a culture.
M >> but that is not something that you see in South Africa on how we were raised because we were we are in a system that tells us that you need to depend on us and we going to come and save you and that creates codependency and then politicians gets to exploit that because it makes them relevant you know so South Africa are not empowered to the point where they don't need the leaders >> South Africans are not empowered to the point where they have land that they own where they can >> they don't wait to be given things but they have the seed to plant so that they can grow their own stuff and out of those things they can go and sell them >> you know so it is so complex >> that it's not one issue >> it is it is it is it is leadership corruption that you're dealing with you have South Africans who are who are who are who are frustrated uh by the the systems of care and the educational system that has created more >> um employers than you know employees more than employers you know and now you have Africans people like you you're coming to my country >> and then you see opportunities >> we don't see opportunities we see problems and then it gets to a point where >> wow >> and then it gets to a and then it gets to the point where the capitalist system prefers people who want peanuts over people who want to be paid within the labor law.
>> You know, you know what I'm saying? So we have brothers and sisters who are being exploited in South Africa by the capitalist system.
>> You have South Africans who are frustrated by their government and the corruption within the leadership.
>> So so and all those things if you shake them >> they become they become a very huge problem you know. So, so South Africans have every right to be frustrated by their leaders, but at the same time, [clears throat] >> we need to do away with the codependency relationship that our government has created to the point where they are politically traumatizing us and disappointing us and they're giving us empty promises. Right? We need to make sure that our brothers and sisters when they come to South Africa, they are laws that they obey and they don't allow the capital system to turn them against South Africans.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I'm saying?
>> That's why I'm against >> my brothers and sisters with the whole free visa thing saying I'm not going back to South Africa.
>> The problem the problem is not you, my brother.
>> Yeah.
>> Like like like the problem is not you.
The problem is that South Africans are navigating around inequality in their own country. They are navigating around corruption in their own country. They are navigating around unemployment in their own country. And unfortunately, if you are eating and I'm not eating, I'm going to >> I'm going to destroy your >> you know and unfortunately the capitalist system prefers you over me because I want to be paid 100 rand. you want to be paid tenant >> because you are desperate you know >> and maybe you don't have papers and you end up being abused so there's there's layers some some people are saying is is jealousy >> you know what is the jealousy I'll be honest with you the jealousy is that you guys are entrepreneurial and we were not raised at birth to be entrepreneurial but we're also not entrepreneurial because we don't have the And >> you know what I'm saying? You know, you you you you can have seeds and you have the land.
>> We have the we have the we have the seeds, >> the seed, >> but we don't have the land, >> brother. You know, okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. When you talk about this, I think a lot of people we don't understand like what are what are you literally saying that South Africans, you know, majority South Africans, >> they literally don't own land at all.
Even the the houses that they're building on whatever that they, you know, it's just maybe rented or something like is that what you're saying? Oh, when you're saying that you don't have land, I mean you don't own land.
You mean you don't have a piece of land?
Yeah. Like >> Yeah. Like like like 90% 90% of the population in South 80% of the population in South Africa is black people, you know, but black black people own about uh 30 to 20% of the land.
>> And man, that's actually I don't understand. and and and and the the the the minority, you know, own most of the properties than the majority.
And if you look at our our Johannesburg Stock Exchange, how many how many black rich South Africans do you see there?
About 90 something% of our economy 90% of our economy is not owned by black South Africans.
>> Okay. Where did we get wrong, brother?
Like, where did we get wrong? Because, okay, I don't know if people really understand this. I mean, I'm in agri business economy and and I'm doing those business and I understand that the the wealth, I mean, the the most wealth thing you could have in this world is owning land. And I hope African countries and African, you know, leaders whenever they when they're listening to this, they understand because there's a lot of countries in Africa where they're giving land to to to, you know, to foreigners who are coming. You know I'm not opposing that because of business and everything but I think priority we should we should learn from what others have done wrong in this case you know my brother I'll take your country as a study case and actually priorit prioritizing our people it's kind of like okay you have a company and you want to sell shares you're not going to sell like 51 shares of your company because otherwise you you're not going to have a control over your own company right you better sell maybe 49 and those 49 maybe divide in in you know 10 or even 20 different shares, different shareholders. And those 20, let them not know each other, you know, so that they may not, okay, even if they know each other, they come together, they're not going to be able to take you down because you already own more than 50% of the shares. But in our countries, it kind of seems like we don't see this arguence, you know, you see like, okay, this land has been given to somebody.
This land like, okay, okay, this is the craziest thing, man, I see in Africa.
Like when big people like Billgate, Bill Gate is in Rwanda right now. they come to Africa to the continent. If they come to your country, you know what they give? They give them land. You know these people might be sometime he's given even 5,000 acres of land as a gift for I'm like man guys this person he's able to come and to actually even buy you know one of the village he can buy one of the why do you give this land to them just like that? What about our own people? My my brother, if you can if if you can if you can own land, you can own everybody that lives in that land.
>> Yes.
>> We are slaves.
>> Yes. [laughter] Yeah. It's a slave. It's a slave, >> you know. You know, so because because we are we end up renting in our own land for the rest of our lives. And if you are renting, you have nothing. If you are renting, you have nothing to pass on. If you are renting, you have nothing to pass on to your children.
That's true, man. That's true.
>> What What is it that you're going to pass on to your children when you don't own that place? That place is not yours, you know? And I think as Africans and as And the problem is that as Africans, we waiting for Jesus to come back. That's the problem.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And forget that he told us, "Let your heaven come here on earth as it is in heaven."
>> Where's in heaven here on earth? That's one of the that's one of the bad theologies that we need to deal with is that a lot of us we are enjoying the suffering here because we are waiting for Jesus to come back and then we're going to go to heaven then we're going to be at peace. The Bible says that let your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. We are supposed to inhabit and infiltrate the the the the every part of our society. But we have been pacified to the point where just wait for the people who are telling you to wait for Jesus are enjoying [laughter] >> and you're and you're waiting for them.
the wait and people who are enjoying earth are waiting for you to wait for heaven to enjoy >> life. Yeah yeah yeah yeah >> I want to enjoy I want to enjoy life here before even heaven comes because heaven will come on earth. So one of the things that we need one of the things that we need to do away is that our religious mindset when it comes to >> God will come and do everything for us you know and we supposed to endure the pain of the earth you know because one day we will be in heaven and we will be happy. No bro I'm going to die in this world fighting for dignity and fighting for justice. And I told my wife that if I die and I don't have land, please resurrect me like Lazarus [laughter] >> because I cannot leave this world >> whileing >> while to to be honest. Okay, the greatest worth. Even when you read in the scriptures, God, he was always telling these people that occupy land, conquer this land, take this land. This was the greatest worth because in land you're going to find oil, you're going to find, you know, gold, you're going to find diamond, you're going to find crops, you're going to you're going to grow your your your keton and everything.
>> He he even say multiply, make babies.
where not people want to come here and tell you not to make babies you know people want to bring their western mindset in Africa tell us don't make babies are the ones you can't be poor and have children are not a sign of poverty children are not a sign of poverty [laughter] you know what creates poverty is capitalism and this western colonal mindset >> you know what I'm saying so so and that is the problem in Africa is that we are adopting a lot of individualistic ideas that are disuniting us as Africans and we have forgotten that we have always thrived as a community and the west has realized that is our strength and that's why they want to divide us right now.
If you want to if you want to kill Africa, if you want to kill Africa, >> divide the people and turn the people against each other and then you are done with this continent.
You know, you know, brother, to be honest, I I don't understand why Africa we find ourselves in this position again. You know, uh my African daddy, Puma, he always says that Africa, you know, is being recolonized right now.
And you know we are talking about land right now and you know thinking about decolonialism back in the days you know what they did they took our lands right and we work in their farms right as the slaves and they were masters you know and we work for them and that is that is exactly what we are doing today that's exactly what we are doing even if we write a contract of 100 years you give the land to a foreigner for one okay foreigner when I say foreigner I don't mean Africans I mean non-affricans because it's the different context with South Africa anyway you know 100 years you give somebody land to 100 years those are two generations cuz one generation is 50 years then another 50 years is another generation you know right now you do that you are like you are giving the wealth of your country >> sadly somebody >> I I remember I told somebody that I don't want my children to inherit my clothes I want them to inherit land and businesses. [laughter] >> Yes.
>> You know what I'm saying? You know that that is generational.
>> And some people got offend some people got offended when I said that that I want my children to own land. You know, I want to pass, you know, pass that on to my children, you know. And I also want to say this because sometimes when people when when Africans speak about African problems, people think, "Oh, this ones they hate white people."
We don't >> we don't.
>> Come on. We we don't you know you know so for me for we we we hate racism we hate inequality we hate dehumanization we hate any system that oppresses and marginalizes we love everybody who is for unity and in in seeing the humanity of other people you know so some people misunderstand when we say you know you know like somebody said we should be there that Africans don't want revenge revenge. They want equality, [laughter] you know. You know, you know, >> you know, I I don't want revenge. I just want to eat just like you eat and I just want my children to eat just like yours are eating. I just want us to be treated the same. Why is that such an insult?
And that's what I'm fighting a lot of times in Cape Town, what I'm fighting a lot of time in in in in South Africa is that, you know, we we all need to be treated with with with with with with human dignity. Um, you know, >> and and and as much as I'm against white supremacy, I'm against black domination, >> you know.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> I'm against I'm against black superiority. I'm against tribalism. I'm against somebody saying, "Hey, because I'm come from this country, I'm better than you." And that is the problem between us and Nigerians.
>> Yeah. That is the problem within between us and and Nigerians because >> we all we all want to feel like we are better than somebody and that is the beginning of our problems. It's like yes, you can love your country, but loving your country does not mean you need to hate another country.
>> Hate another country. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what what where's the coalition there? I mean, where's the coalition there? You you can, you know, it's it's it's a it's it's not like we're better than anybody else. And it's not like we're less than anyone else, right? You are special. I am special in my own way.
All right. You're good in tourism. I'm good in, you know, business. I'm good in whatever. You're bad at, you know, killing one another. We we are bad at scamming one another. You know, we we all have issues. We all have good sides.
and and and the only thing we can do is to actually figuring out you know you you said something and and and and I just want to trace back there because I I I spoke in swasabuasabu because my brother to be honest for the very first time >> I I I felt the frustration uh in South Africans mind and hearts I felt it you know because this thing I I I've been knowing that majority of South Africans are not owning land. 80% are blacks, but then you know less than 30% they're owning land. I I've I've heard this but I never really I never really sit on it and think about it like think about it.
So when you're talking right now I've I've been you know I've been I've been you know thinking rethinking again and I'm like man I understand where this frustration is coming from for >> So yeah >> I'm not Yeah. And that's the thing, brother. Our frustration is not with you.
>> We are we are we are so frustrated that the frustration is spilling out.
>> Exactly. Exactly. It's everybody outside. Yeah. Yeah. And it is touching every single person that is connected to us and connected to this to this to the system of corruption and exploitation and capitalism. So if I'm fighting against corruption, if I'm fighting against capitalism, if I'm fighting against exploitation and you are in the middle, guess what's going to happen? I'm going to have to kick you to kick them.
So that's why some South Africans will say our brothers and sisters step out of the way.
>> Understand? Yeah. Step out of the way.
This is our fight.
>> Yeah. Step step out of the way because you are not the problem. The problem is that you are being used by a capitalist e exploitation corrupt leaders to turn us against each other. You know what I'm saying? Because the law of South Africa says South must be paid a a a 100 rand.
>> But then a corrupt person comes and then they give you know 10 rand you know and then the problem is not me and you are just puppets being turned against each other.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So so I get it. So, so what we're saying is this that so the people are are seeing that okay you guys you are part of the problem like because the government is using you and while using you or these people who are using you they're actually making more money because they pay you less because of the laws and they don't want to hire us >> also pay us more and make less so get out of the way.
>> Yeah. Oh, >> and that's what and and and that's the the the capitalist system when it comes to business.
>> Wow.
>> But also also also our leaders our leaders are so corrupt that they don't want to take accountability and they're blaming everything on foreigners.
So So that's why that's why watch this.
>> Dang.
>> Foreigners will leave. Illegal foreigners will leave. Watch what happens. Crime will not change >> and unemployment will remain the same or will become even worse. Just watch.
>> And now now when those things remain the same.
>> Who's the problem? You guys have left.
>> Yeah.
>> Now we get to see who is the problem.
And our problem has always been the leaders who are complacent, who are corrupt, who are not doing their job.
So, so the way I see it is that our brothers and sisters they are also being used and exploited in this situation and our leaders are hiding behind them and the capitalist system you know is also using them to their own benefit because now there are some companies who are even saying no we will not hire South Africans because if I hire South African that means I have to pay him the right amount of money.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I'm saying? You know, but also it create it create it creates another problem because where where are those people going? All those Africans who have left the country >> when they go back home when they when they go back home what happens? But what I love is what I've seen in Uganda because I've seen a lot of the people first thing I love this country man. Um what what I've seen what I've seen the government do is rehabilitate the people, >> make sure they are mentally good and then reintegrate them.
>> Wow.
>> The biggest problem that I've seen is that people get reintegrated into nothing.
But what I've seen with the government here is that they are they are they they are they are they are addressing trauma that the people have been to been through and then from then finding opportunities in terms of work in terms of where they can where they can be so so so what I've seen in Uganda I hope and pray that has been done in other countries as well you know >> and also our leaders from other countries take accountability when it comes to why are we forcing our people to leave?
>> Because that's another issue that we're not talking about. Why are people leaving their homes, >> you know, um and how can we address that issue apart from addressing Ramaposa?
How about we address what is happening in Nigeria right now within their government?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you know, you know, I I you know, I I was thinking in in the case of, you know, South Africa and then we're going to go to address that thing cuz I think it's very important uh to to cover all sides. You know, for me, I've been just thinking about, you know, the solutions now.
Okay. What do we have? So, I'm thinking about this if why cuz cuz I I see there's a there's a simple solutions. I mean some of them that I mean out of goodwill you know government you know can do in order to uh to actually easy things down a little bit because all right if if there are people in South Africa who believes they're not being hired not because they don't have capability not because they >> do you want to give a minute I just want to charge >> okay okay okay it's a it's a good conversation guys hello people uh Tanzanian comopia [laughter] afrophobia hopefully.
African Africa.
the huge part of the land. Frustration.
Anyways, we're going to keep on moving forward, guys. So, and then I I'll keep you guys updated a little bit later. So, okay. I was thinking about the solution of this.
>> So, my brother, I think what I'm going to do is I'm gonna try to log in through my phone. Uh because my computer's about to die and I think my wife is using my charger.
>> Uh so, can I can I can I log in again into through my phone?
>> Definitely definitely definitely. I'll be translating to some of my people here.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> Okay. All right. So, I want to deal a South Africation African business.
my my brother Phineas, my twin. This is my twin by the way. So I I'm I'm thinking about a couple of solutions and you know I can hear your thoughts about that. Do you do you think all right if the if the issue is this that foreigners are being paying less right and South Africans are being paid more if this is one of the issue right so as as as as a businessman I'm going to pick you know somebody who can deliver what I need with the less cost because I want to reduce the operation cost of whatever I do right so do you think some of the changes that government could do maybe to change the polic if if the minimum wage is 100,000 it will be 100,000. If it is 10,000 run, it will be 10,000 run.
No matter you are South African, no matter you are a foreigner. So basically you start competing not based on your salary. Uh but you're competing based on your ability, right? So we can easily judge right now to say that okay a lot of foreigners have been hired because you know they're working hard and you know the salary is the same but these guys are not qualified. They're taking the people that are qualified. It could be one of the solution that it could ease things you know down a little bit.
The second thing that I'm I'm thinking that okay now now this issue is happening. So for for for for these people who are saying okay you guys step away you are not the issue you're not the problem we want to fight for our country there's issues we have in our country and you guys are being used and so we are not focusing on that please step out of the way let us fight for our country. My question is this. Is there any better way to actually for South African to fight for their country without kicking away these foreigners?
Or what these foreign not foreigners.
What these fellow Africans what can we do? Okay, I'm in South Africa and I'm I am I I'm from Tanzania.
What can I do so that I may not stand between these issues that are happening between you know the government and and the people and the these people? I mean, what do they have to get that? Okay, I am not the issue. They're telling me I'm not the problem. If I'm not the problem, why should I leave? Okay, I I was born here. I have a wife here. I have kids here. I don't have life anywhere else.
Now you're you're telling me to leave.
I'm basically South African. I mean, you see this white the white who colonized you? They are South African even though they don't look like you, right? I I was born here. I am also South African even though you know my roots are from Tanzania. So >> what should be done and especially okay from the government side I say but from the people's side who are angry you know with the government with the system and they feel like okay you guys you need to step away let us fight is there a possibility is there a way to do that while our fellow African brothers and sister who they don't have option can actually [snorts] stay there and not get into trouble >> I I I think I think the the the first thing South Africa needs to do you know is that they need to make sure that people who are coming into the country um you know they they are documented right and they make it easy for people to move in and out of the country.
>> Okay? you know, so our immigration system >> uh needs to work >> and it needs to work properly.
>> Um and and and bribes should not be enabled at the border, >> you know, because that's one of our biggest problems. And also our another problem is the home affairs is home affairs. Our home affairs is is is is one of our biggest problem because the people who are illegal foreigners who are in a country are not illegal foreigners because they chose to be illegal foreigners. It is mostly because a lot of them have applied over and over again and their papers were not processed >> and some of them have to pay a lot of money for their papers to be processed just to realize that they are there's a lot of corruption within our system.
>> So our immigration system and our home affairs is corrupt my brother. There's a lot of people right now who are being held accountable who are South Africans who have been giving fake and selling IDs. So we are dealing with that right.
So >> we need to deal with our systems as South Africans you know and we need to enforce the laws of the country of of when it comes to business when it comes to employment.
The problem that I'm having right now is that illegal foreigners who are employed are being held accountable >> but the companies who are hiring them and exploiting them are not being held accountable. M >> so now what is happening is that the the the government is saying any company that hires an illegal immigrant >> who is not documented is going to be fined and is going to be jailed.
>> Okay, >> that needs to be enforced, >> right? You know, and the other thing that needs to be enforced is the minimum wage. How much are those foreigners being paid >> there? And are they paid the same amount that fenas will be paid? Because if they're not paid the same amount, they are slaves and they are being used against South Africa.
>> You know what I'm saying? So the businesses needs to be held businesses need to be held accountable.
>> You know, our brothers and sisters in South Africa needs to make sure that they are documented to the point where they cannot be exploited and they cannot be used because when you don't have papers, >> you become a yes. Yes, ma'am.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Because I can abuse you. I can do anything to you because you don't have papers. But if you have papers, I will treat you like a human being. But I will not treat you like a human being because they don't have the papers. Okay. Before you before, so here is where we connect.
We see the the big problem for Africa because what we are talking about right now, it has to include other African countries where these people are coming from. They're running. Why are they running from their countries? Because but also also >> yeah but also based on international law if they somebody is a refugee an Islam seeker >> by law as South Africa we're supposed to accommodate those people and make sure that they have the documents >> right >> um South Africa needs to make sure that that is that is that is that is that is that is put together that is in place >> but here's the thing my brother >> you can have all the papers you need to be in South Africa and somebody in South Africa will still not like you.
>> Yeah. Anyway, >> that's why that I'm saying that the problem is not even just about having the papers because I'm telling you right now, even South Africans who have papers are being mistreated.
>> You know what I'm saying? So, I can tell people that they need to be documented.
I can tell people that they need to obey the law.
>> But this this this is just a little percentage. In fact, like it's just it's just a little percent. It's going to reduce, but it's just a little percent.
It's not like it's going to reduce the entire problem. It's going to be just a little bit what is going to reduce the the the situation that is happening in, you know, in our countries, right? It's not going to take away everything, but it's going to reduce just a little bit.
>> I'm I'm experiencing I'm experiencing South Africa and Uganda. [laughter] >> Welcome to Uganda, my brother. Like when you're in Africa, man, Africa humbles you. Africa humbles you. Africa humbles you, [laughter] my brother. Africa humbles. It's just the such a way. Only only this can happen in Africa. My brother, I lived in South Korea for 9 years. I've never seen a single day electricity went off. And if electricity goes off like this, that person is going to retire the same day. You don't even wait the next day. The president will be, you know, persecuted. You know we have two president in South Korea they in prison you know they are there one president who went to prison he just call upon like the martial law martial law of the country like everybody to not go out why because he sensed like there's some things tension going on between north and south but because there were some people who wanted basically to take information whatever so he called martial law for the sake of the country to protect the country that guy he has been impeached and right now he's in prison right now they have another president. These are these are countries that people are accountable here in our continent.
>> Electricity going off like that is our daily life.
>> And when you come back, you don't know if you lost some credits. All right? Cuz you find out, you know, you know, they just steal anyhow and then it just be gone like that.
>> And my brother Africa, [laughter] >> and that and that is the problem, you know, in Africa is that we need to start holding ourselves accountable first.
[laughter] Look at you, man. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. You look like you look very funny, man. Like you you look like [laughter] listen >> this [laughter] this this is what this this is one of the one of >> this one of the problems of Africa.
[laughter] My brother, my >> my I'm even I'm even sweating here. That's how hot it [laughter] is.
>> Man, Africa is funny, man. These things of course these things are not funny.
>> What what what you're saying is very important because all the problems in Africa starts with leadership.
>> Yeah. If >> we don't fix our leadership, nothing is going to be fixed. If you don't fix leadership, our systems are going to remain the same, >> you know.
>> But also, I feel like we keep on changing leaders, but we don't change the so we don't change the soil, >> you know. We don't change the system. We keep on changing leaders, but we don't change the system.
>> My brother, my brother, that's that's the very reason why I wrote my book, why I wrote this book.
>> Because because, you know, I can stand here and be like, you know, this is bad.
We need to change this. We need to change that. But to be honest, we are not really preparing >> our continent for tomorrow. We're not preparing even this Gen Z, Gen Alpha for the Africa of tomorrow. Who is >> That's why even if that's why somebody said South Africa was not ready for democracy.
>> We were not ready.
>> Yeah. We were not we were not we were we were not prepared here >> to be able to be good stewards of whatever we were left with >> because we were not rehabilitated to hold space [clears throat] >> for where we were going.
>> You know what I'm saying? So so so that is the problem because if you you can put any leader but if you put them in the same system that another leader was >> nothing's going to change.
Oh yeah. Yeah. It's the same system like it's even if it doesn't matter who you are but that system is going to swallow you and it's going to turn you to something else.
>> We have to change radically to change the entire system and to start a fresh.
>> That is what Africa has to do. And and somebody told me actually somebody told me somebody that I highly respect told me that in order for the system to change >> it's a matter of time. And he said this he said because >> the generation that fought for colonialism for independence it's actually finishing up like somewhere it's going it's going to finish up right now you have millennial who will came up you know you have gen Z you have gen alpha so you can see the this new generation is a totally complete different generation but we still have old generation right there that is still holding and and that is my fear and that is that that is I don't like using the word fear no that is my concern because this generation We supposed we supposed to find a Joshua in the middle to connect us >> together to connect to find a way that we can work together we can get I wrote this in the book by the way to get wisdom and experience from them and for us we have a fresh mindset we have a zeal we have a passion we have a strength okay if you have strength your passion have zeal without experience man you're not going to go far and if you have experience but you don't understand that this is a digital world this is the age of, you know, AI, you know, and and digitalization world that, you know, we're not going to we're not going to marry. We're not going to marry. So, and that's why we're losing now. We're supposed to be working together. We're supposed to be given chance. We're supposed to be sitting down and be like, "Okay, what can we do for the next generation?" But everybody's fighting for them right now. They're fighting for their belly. They don't think about the next generation. And >> listen, I think I think I think what I've told somebody is that the what I told somebody is that, you know, colonization only succeeded in Africa because >> that was that was Uncle Tom in the midst of all of that. Praise the Lord. You know, >> amen. [laughter] Amen.
>> You know, so as long as we have Uncle Tom and Judas in our midst, >> we're in trouble.
Because a lot of the issues in South Africa or in Africa, they're internal issues >> and somebody externally found their uncle Tom, the Judas in our midst who's desperate for power >> that they're not skilled for >> and then all they need to do is give that person money >> and then everything changes, >> you know. So we as Africans need to be addicted to service, not power. service.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, our leaders are addicted to power, not service. You know, they addicted to to to to be leaders who do not understand what it means to be a shepherd, you know. And and and like I will tell you, I will tell you my brother, there's so many people who wanted to silence me. A lot of people.
Ifelcome if if if I was addicted to money, >> we would would have met.
>> If I was addicted [laughter] to power and positions, >> we would have not met. I would have been a sellout long time ago, >> you know, >> and and and I think because of my principles, because of who I believe in at my core. I mean, I'm a missionary, right? I lost a lot of support >> because of speaking like this and standing for what is right.
>> Yeah.
>> I even lost friends over xenophobia, >> you know, standing for my brothers and sisters, >> you know, telling human beings that no, you're not going to treat my brother like that. And then all of a sudden we're not friends anymore.
>> You know, I was like, I don't care if you think treating other people like less humans is okay. You're not going to last around me. And you cannot use my friend and you cannot use power to control who I am because I'm already controlled. I'm already send.
>> Yeah.
>> What I'm saying? [laughter] You know, you can't give me a >> You You can't give me a position that I'm already given.
>> You can't give me what I don't have.
>> Come on now. Preach. You know what I'm saying? Come on. Come on. You know, I know who I know who I am. I know that I'm the son of God. I know that I have authority. I know that I'm positioned. I know that I'm rich. It may not manifest materially yet, >> but I'm not going to betray my principles >> for >> for peanuts.
The easy way >> I'm not going to do that. But the reason why Africa is the way it is is because we have too many sellouts >> who are afraid to stand >> for the truth.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> That's the problem. The reason why we have corruption in our systems is because nobody's willing to stand up for the truth.
>> You know, so corruption will exist as long as people don't know who they are.
A lot of the people who become corrupt are offens.
[laughter] But an orphan steals. That's why in one of my books that I'm writing is that our biggest problem in Africa is that we have often leaders.
>> Often leaders. Often leaders.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. Elaborate.
>> We have often leaders who do not know who they are, who are thieves, who feel like they need to take [laughter] >> from somebody else in order to be rich.
[laughter] son does not steal what belongs to them.
>> Identity crisis. We don't know who we are. How How can you How How can you steal what is already yours?
>> Because you know when you stealing, you're not when I'm stealing, I'm not stealing from you. You know who I'm stealing from. I'm stealing from myself.
When I throw stones, I'm the one who loses ground. Not you. Me.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> So people don't realize that by dehumanizing others, they dehumanizing themselves. By stealing from others, they're stealing from from themselves.
>> Phineas, Phineas, this is this is crazy actually. You know, you know what you just say right now. Okay. You said something. If if I throw stone at you, I'm the one losing the ground. You are gaining.
>> But you know the word the way is teaching us is teaching us the opposite.
>> Yeah.
>> When I throw stone at you, I kind of feel like, you know, I'm strong. I'm getting rid of you, but I'm actually losing. Everything is open.
>> But look at this. Look at how the Jewish run businesses. Jewish support each other. Indians support each other.
Pakistanis support each other.
>> Yeah.
>> Me and you, >> we are always in competition with one another. Okay. If if if if if if [laughter] we both building a house, we want to make sure that my house is better than yours.
[snorts] >> What what what kind of mindset is that?
>> What I've seen in South Africa for example with Spaza shops, there will be five Pakistanis. one will start a shop and then he will borrow that money to this one and this one after that will borrow money to this one and this one will borrow money to this one and this one will borrow money to this one. One of the biggest problems in Africa as Africans is that we don't collaborate.
We're competing with each other too much and we're competing over leftovers.
We we we don't even sit at the table, you know. We we're eating down there on the floor what other people really ate and we are competing with one another.
Instead of coming together as one people and fight for the table, for the seat at the table, >> me and you are supposed to be sitting at the table enjoying the food. We are busy fighting over who cleans the dishes in the kitchen the best >> so that the master can see who's the best at cleaning dishes while we should be sitting at the table.
>> Jesus Christ.
>> [laughter] >> This is this is okay and that's why this is dear to my heart basically the the transformation of the mind right that's basically what I'm talking about in the book the mind transformation because what we're saying right now >> it is the problem is the mind like we're still colonized in our mind you know and and you say something very interesting area that you know apathy what happened to us we're actually doing the same thing that to our people okay not only in South Africa but in so many other countries in the continent we are facing the same thing we're still discriminating against our religion you know I'm this religion I'm better than you >> this this is how similar it is I go into your house I ask for your ID you don't have an ID or it has expired >> I I I I draw you out of your house and I put you into a van and I tell you to go the same thing that was done to us. I listen to your your voice. Oh, you sound a little bit like this, you know. I look at your hair. I look at your nose. Oh, this one looks the same mindset of a partate of we using it on us. And and and that's why I'm telling you our problem as South Africans are not your problem.
>> You know, we have been through things that we have not healed from. And I will say this, we have the memory of aparate.
You don't. That's why you will misunderstand us.
>> Your history and my history is not the same.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know, >> two different things.
>> You the history of aparate that South Africans or some South Africans have experienced in Cape Town is not the same apartate that I have experienced in the north in Lopo.
in Limpopo on the farm where I grew up.
We had amazing Dutch family, white, >> they owned the land, >> but they made sure that we have a school, we have a clinic, we have a crutch, I can fish, I can farm, I can hunt in the same land.
>> So that's why I cannot say all white people are like this because I have experienced white people >> who are human. You know what I'm saying?
>> And I cannot say all South Africans are xenophobic because you have experienced people like myself who love you, who will fight for you and take a bullet for you.
>> You know what I'm saying? You know, so so for me it's like >> until you walk in our shoes >> or until I walk into your shoes as Africans, we'll always fight one another. And that's why it's important.
That's why I appreciate this my brother because I don't think you know what you're doing.
>> You know because once you understand me and once I can understand you we can work together we can build.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You know >> and when and when you understand that I am part of the problem and you are also part of the problem in the way you think >> of the situation. That's why when I called and say hey we need to talk because what is happening on the media and what is happening on the ground is completely different story and you are actually not the problem we are sick >> you know and whatever flu that we have you're catching it >> yeah yeah >> so when you understand that fine is actually sick right now and it's making you sick then you will have a a better understanding of as an African from Tanzania.
>> I just lost my brother. Okay.
>> You know you you as a South African you as somebody's in Tanzania your job will be how can I help my brother in South Africa you know and how can I educate my own people and how can I educate my own people because I'm educating my own people. The question is are you bl are you educating your own people into loving and being you know or are you blaming South Africans because if I keep on blaming you and you keep on blaming me nothing will change.
>> Yeah. We ain't going anywhere. Yeah.
Yeah.
You know you man you have so much wisdom man. Where did you get that wisdom? Like you have so much you know I'm I'm enjoying this conversation. The matter of fact people they have to know this.
I'm not doing this conversation for them. I'm doing this conversation for myself cuz for example today man today I'm just I'm just learning a lot of things here >> you know I like I told you how I felt like today like I really I did not think to that extent but >> it it it it just start with conversation this is the power of conversation this is the power of talk and the the moment that Africa is supposed to be talking to South Africa more than any other time is right now it is right now and enemy knows knows that enemies knows that that's why all these things are happening and some of us we are reacting in a very negative way you know I I like how this this I think we share this news on social media the president of where the president of um uh who was that president you know he he said something that he's not okay okay okay I think yeah I'll see here one second I'm I'm looking at so nation network guys feel free to follow us there on our social media we share very interesting news about Africa Cafas he is my witness I think he he loves the work we are doing you know I see him a lot of time you know liking our post yeah okay Zimbabwe so Zimbabwe president we share this today the Zimbabwe president reject cause to expel so the Africans am regional tension all right so because a lot of people who are have been affected there you know they are they're mostly you know Zimbabwean maybe you know Malawi southern part of southern part of Africa, all these southern southern southern African countries, you know, but you know, he rejected. He said, "No, I'm not going to do the same thing, you know, because I you you cannot respond hate to hate. You you respond with love." He said, "I'm not going to do I know there's a lot of pressure for my people and I know you're suffering from this, but you're not going to do that because we are better than this. We are better than this." So the the best thing we can do yeah is actually not to react negatively but to react positively by extending ourselves you know for conversations like this the time where the world wants to see us separating against each other it is the time that we're supposed to come together okay I have another theory because South Africa is also it was the first member of bricks I I've spoken about bricks here so many times and by the way you know by by the way I I was not supporting that thing I think bricks is a good initiative I really think it's really good because we need another alternative of all these you know western kind of like organization that are happening.
It's really good but I think it came at the time where is drawing attention away from the unit of Africa at the same time cuz you have few countries joining bricks and while they're joining bricks you know they're focusing maybe they're thinking about okay brs and this and that but we should have African currents we should put our things in order in our own continent before anything else. I'll be okay if Africa as a continent will go and join bricks together then we'll be like okay yeah it's good but if this little country one country another country say we're not we are we are with these people we're with that we are for Apollo we are for Paul we are for Petro Peter what happens is the house is divided and we are failing our continent >> the thing is we need to be we [laughter] what people don't understand is that we need to be good neighbors uh with the people across cross the street before the people across the ocean because some of us cannot swim.
>> A lot of Africans guys, okay, those who are not living on the on on the show on the show, I can swim. I I decided to learn years ago.
>> I say that because here's the thing.
>> I know >> if something happens here, if something happens, who who do I go to first? I'm not I'm not going to go across the ocean.
>> I'm going to go across the street. Who is across the street? Is Mozambique is Zimbabwe? Is I'm not going to go to China. I'm not going to go to Russia, bro. [laughter] So the best relationships and the most important relationship we should have first.
>> It is at home.
You know, if I'm not good with my neighboring countries, I cannot claim to be good with America.
>> It's hypocrisy. Yeah, >> it's hypocrisy.
>> You know, it's hypocrisy.
>> And why would I want to waste so much time and resources try to be understood by somebody who has made it so impossible for me to understand them.
And it is very clear. The west is very clear. We just there because we are protecting our own agenda. The question is as Africans what is our agenda?
Good question. What is our agenda? What is agenda? Where are we going? Where are we going? [laughter] We don't have crew where we're going.
Everybody has done so much. We we we we >> we need to we need to be so we need to be so radical to the point where we have a we have an African vision because we are the youngest >> population in the world and the world is coming to Africa. Don't be fooled. Don't be lied to. Africa is the future of the world >> and we need to be ready for what is coming. But the problem is that we are not ready because we have taken even history out of our schools. And if you take history out of the schools, you lose the roots. And if you lose the roots, >> what do you know?
>> Well, brother, this is food for thought. You you you you you said let's speak about solutions but the solutions to South Africa is that South Africa is groaning right now and grieving what should have happened after 1994 that didn't happen.
H >> people were promised people were promised political, social and economic freedom.
And black people after 32 years of democracy are still the poorest in their own land.
They don't own most of the land. They don't own most of the properties. They don't own their economy. and they are frustrated and their frustration is bleeding into their brothers and sisters. So the problem is us as people, you know, and dealing with the disappointments with our political leaders who are using illegal foras as scapegoats, including our private sector that benefits out of cheap labor, you know. So once you understand that this is Fenia's problem and he's trying to deal with it but he's struggling to deal with it and he's bleeding on you then you'll have the compassion to say you know what based on the history of South Africa and where you guys are you shouldn't be here as people of color you know but because of corruption because of exploitation because of capitalism. You are where you are and illegal foreigners, South Africans are being used against each other, you know. So it is it is it is it it is very complex and very layered and that's why I appreciate people like you who are responding with understanding and compassion and say you know what when they go low when they go high we're going to go low >> that's why I I I I I appreciate how Uganda has responded of saying no we're not gonna kick at uh uh empty and out.
No, we're not going to kick them this the South African companies out.
No, we're not going to mistreat South Africans who are in our country. We're going to show South Africans how you treat people >> when they are struggling.
>> Yeah.
>> And and and and that is Africa at its core. We always we always we always go beyond and we don't we don't we we don't we don't we don't submit >> to western and neoc colonial you know tactics of divide on conquer and some leaders see it >> unfortunately some leaders don't see it they just want to turn Africa they just want to isolate South Africa because here's the thing my brother the minute South Africa is isolated we are vulnerable to any attack in the world.
>> Yeah.
Um a question brother question. Um then you know first of all if I say who to blame I know is the system and everything but South Africans are not owning land and they're frustrated. Um so as a South African What will be the solution for South Africa? Yes. Now I'm talking about South Africa. The issues that are happening in South Africa if if they're not owning land you know unless okay even if the government step out and be like okay now we need to divide this land forever it's too late like we we like we are too late for doing that. But but but I want to hear from a South African brother you know what should be done you know what is the way out? We >> we have a constitution. Our constitution is regarded as one of the best constitutions in the world.
>> The problem with our constitution is that it's not implemented and it's not enforced.
>> And it's not implemented and it's not enforced because people are afraid of white capital and what will happen if they enforce the law. Because if you say we need to share the land and we need to share the wealth of the country, >> you know the banks and the mines, somebody is controlling those things.
>> And somebody's saying if you come after our banks, if you come after our land, if you come after you know the mines, the investors will leave >> and they will invest somewhere else >> and you guys will end up like Zimbabwe.
So people keep on saying you will end up like Zimbabwe if you want to share the land. Remember it's not taking of the land. It is sharing of the land >> for equality. But there are some people or bosses in South Africa who do not want to share the land who does not want to share the wealth of the country because they always see themsel up here and everybody down here and they keep on saying we have worked hard for this not realizing that during a back date these things were given to you.
You know, it's like you steal my car and then I find you >> and after I find you, >> you know, I found you, I found my car, you still drive away with it.
>> No, give me my car back and then if I want to give you a lift, I will give you a lift.
>> I'm still human. I will still help you, you know. But what has happened in South Africa is that people are afraid of equality to the point where they perceive equality as oppression, >> you know. So people don't see themselves equal to other people >> and they want to control every single thing. So so what what what what needs to change in South Africa is leadership. The ANC is corrupt.
>> The ANC does not have the political will to change South Africa socially and economically because most of them are captured and most of them are corrupt >> and they don't want to hold each other accountable. So what is going to change South Africa is new leadership, not just the president but the system.
>> Yeah. you know >> where there's different parties coming together holding each other accountable.
>> If the if the system does not change and the leadership does not change South Africans will continue to be frustrated and turning against each other and turning against their neighboring countries.
>> So I think I think I think that is the most important thing that we need to fix. That's why right now I tell South Africans register to vote >> because if you don't change the leaders the systems will remain the same >> you know and don't change the leader change the whole system >> and the problem with some of us is that we vote and then we don't participate >> in the social change what that we want to see in our communities >> you know so don't vote and wait for change vote and be part of the And those are some of the things that are going to change South Africa is being active citizens who are part of the solution and not waiting for solution from somewhere else.
M >> you know so so I [laughter] I I I think when it comes to land, when it comes to all these other things, you know, in order for them to to really change, we need a strong president that believes in diversity, that believes in equality, >> that believes in inclusion.
If you have somebody like that, they that will drive the policy in all those different areas and South Africa will be different because here's the thing, white people are not going anywhere. We love white people. We love Indians.
>> We love everybody, you know, but >> we we we we can we cannot live together for a very long time if we remain unequal.
>> Yeah.
>> We need to share the land of the country.
you know, we need to share the mineral resources of the country. Um, >> we need to prioritize people who have been marginalized and make sure that they catch up. That's why I don't really believe in equality. I believe in equity.
So, >> you know, because >> we we we we all have to start almost at the same level, you know, we all have to have the privilege of looking at the same thing >> um in different levels.
>> But the point is all of us being able to see not just one person. And those are issues that we need to deal with. But the most important thing that we need to deal with in South Africa >> is identity, my brother. We need to understand our history as a bond to people. We need to understand where we come from as a bond to people.
>> We need to understand this principles and the spirit of Ubuntu and what that really actually means because it is very sad that we are welcoming of strangers but we are not welcoming of our family members.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
So, we have a long way to go, >> my brother.
>> But here here's where it starts. You >> have a long way to go.
>> Here's where it starts. This what you're doing here, >> you need to travel this continent, my brother.
You know, I pray in the name of Jesus that you get to travel this continent and you host dialogues like this >> and these dialogues >> bring people together >> into uncomfortable conversations that build this continent. We cannot build this continent in isolation. We are not an island. Africa it is not selfmade. It is bondu made you know. So father I pray and I ask you father god for this next generation that you give us the wisdom, you give us the knowledge. You give us the impartation that we need >> to position ourselves not in places of authority but in places of service where we will be in love with seeing change not just in our own lives but the lives of the people in this continent. So I pray father god with the book that my brother has written with this um um dialogues that he's going to be hosting in this continent that that that that you give him favor you give him favor with the right people in places of power for him to hold this dialogues where he's asking Africans to have conversations that this conversations will lead to UN this conversation will lead to AU that these conversations will not just become policies >> but they will become something that transforms lives on the ground that will have more sons than orphans in this continent. We are tired of orphans leaders. We need leaders who know who they are, who walk in their purpose, who are not desperate for power, who are not desperate for money, but they are desperate for change. And that's what we pray for in this continent. Men of integrity, men of faith, men of principles who are not shaken by brown envelopes, but they are shaken by poverty and want to see change in those countries.
>> So I pray that you bless my brother that you will take him to places that he never thought he could be. that you use this book as a manual, as a footprint for change in this continent, that you will hold more dialogues with South Africans, that he will hold more dialogues with Nigerians, that he will hold more dialogues with brothers in Nijer, that that this will spread like fire across this continent, that the West will feel the heat to the point where they want to be part of the conversation and be part of the solution. Not that benefits them but that benefits all of us >> as people who are made in the image of God.
>> So I thank you father God for this privilege. I thank you Lord for this opportunity to have this healing peaceful justice conversations that I pray will transform this continent. I do not we we do not want our children to complain about the same things we complain.
>> Yeah.
>> Come on now. Yes.
>> We want our children to be filled with hope to look at this different >> to have something passed to them >> so that this grows deeper >> and so thank you father for my brother.
Thank you for this conversation. May you continue to lead us. May you continue to guide us. And if there's anything that we said, Lord, that is not from you and that is not helpful to building your kingdom, Lord, may you take it away.
>> Anything that breeds hate, dehumanization, or whatever, Lord, we don't want that. We want peace in this world. We want justice in this world. We want joy in this world. We want unity in this world. We want heaven on earth.
And may you give us that mandate >> wherever we go, whatever conversation that we have, people will feel like they human beings and they become >> we pray this in Jesus name.
>> Amen.
>> Amen. Amen. Amen. My brother, um, >> we didn't even talk about your book, but I know your book is fire. Um, but I also don't want to spoil it because >> Oh, yeah.
>> You know, uh, uh, uh, people need to get it. By the way, uh, you I need I don't know how you're going to get it to me in Uganda, but I need to get it. Uh, I I need you said you said you would be here. So, >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, if I'm if I'm I'm on honeymoon, I'm on honeymoon, brother. I don't want it to be disturbed, you know.
Um um [laughter] >> you know but no listen I'm I'm gonna I'm I'm going to be there for only one reason to take you guys picture. I'll be your personal videographer. So I'll come with the book and I'll give it to you.
>> I can I cannot I can I can I I can I cannot come to your land and not pass through the king, you know. I need to I need to meet with the chief, >> you know, of country before before I do anything. I need to be blessed.
>> Come on. Come on now. Come on now. Come on now.
>> You need you need to meet the man of the land.
>> So that I can usher you to Tanzania.
>> You know what I'm saying? You know, so so we we will talk, but but I I appreciate your book is not a book. your your book is a is a is a is a is a is a is a is a map um it is it is it is a guide um that's going to give us tools and resources that we need >> to get where we need to be you know it is an awakening tool because I feel like a lot of us have been sleeping so every word >> is going to be like >> sharpening >> and that's what that's my prayer and that's my hope >> that we will awaken into consciousness of who we are as black people. And I'm excited to read it. Amen. I'm excited to use it to do even in my teachings as well, >> you know. So, >> I would love that.
>> I would love that. [laughter] >> Yeah. But make sure that it's signed before you send it to me.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely.
Uh it's it's going to be signed. I need to start working on my, you know, signature, you know, for the books. You know what I'm saying? Cuz [laughter] >> it has to be a presidential signature, man.
>> It [snorts] has to be a presidential signature. I should I should be thinking about changing my My signature is good, by the way.
Yeah. [laughter] >> You You know what we should do? I think I think I think I think the next conversation is let's bring maybe maybe two people from different uh parts of the country.
>> We promise that we promise that we're going to we're going to do that. We promise that. So we're going to bring here uh we're going to bring here a Zimbabwean. We're going to bring here um a Nigerian, you know, we're going to bring here, you know, maybe a Ugandan or Kenyan. We're going to bring like Yeah.
a lot of people together. They're there >> and even I think some of the people in the in the diaspora as well, >> you know, because some of them are >> I see some I've seen some of the st and they afraid to come back home.
>> Yeah.
>> Because they too much of the algorithm.
Um so, so I think we need to >> we need to continue with this. But I also like to listen to you know what what what other people are feeling in the in the continent.
>> Um because we got to build this membership. We build this movement together.
>> Uh because eventually we have to host this in person >> in another country. I see it coming my brother. I don't know if you're ready >> but I can see >> it's coming. No it's coming >> brother. It's coming [laughter] brother. It's coming. It is coming, brother. And the people and the people in the comments, the people in the comments, I I I definitely think they they they want that. They want to be part of the conversation. And it will be great to hear from them as well on >> because me and you cannot solve the problems of this continent.
>> Yeah.
>> They have the solution to the problem.
The people >> the people of this continent have the solution to this problems that we're dealing with and we need to bring them in.
Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And indeed indeed indeed. And and and the test of of I already shared with you about you know one Africa forum. I I shared with you before but the test of this conversation is actually going to happen in in my launch. You know the launch of the book that we're going to do. We actually we're actually going to have a short number of people. I only want 200 people because um >> I'm kind of guy that I don't I don't right. So I I just want a number of 200 people who understand Please make your way to 15th of August. It is it's not that far.
And we actually just released a link for you guys to be able to uh to sign up.
For those who wants to attend, you can sign up and then you'll get tickets. We prepare tickets as well. So you get you get tickets uh to be able to come to attend and and to enjoy the launching of of the book. This is not just a book, but it's a movement. It's a movement that is going to transform generations.
It's a movement that is going to transform mindsets of our people. It's the movement that is going to decolonize and bring us back to our roots as Africans and sitting on our seats, standing on our houses, you know, and and and move forward uh and and and be the change that this continent needs.
This is the movement. I encourage everybody if you haven't pre-ordered my book, we only have five days left. Um the the you know 25th of uh July is the end of the pre-order. uh you know people uh who are not here as well you know you can actually check the book on Amazon is there free minds a free mind builds a free future is available on Amazon you can you can you know pre-order there but also you know uh we're going to be selling an ebook through my website personal website mikachavala.com so it's it's it's going to be it's going to be very interesting it's going to be very exciting um you should not miss this out anybody any you should not miss this out and I am just very excited I cannot wait for this moment to celebrate and to have converation about this book you guys you get to understand why I wrote this book you get to understand a little bit of the context maybe I might read something a little bit you know something that I can read for you guys um the poor a little bit but you'll be having your books as well so that day I want everybody when coming in they'll be having their books by the way my brother when I left here area I was I was going to pick up my books All right. I was just receiving other copies that have been prepared, you know, ready uh to be given to people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we just won 200 number of people and it's going to be incredible. My brother, my brother, I pray for you and your beautiful wife. I pray for both of you. I pray for you that God may he just steer up some, you know, anger inside of you. You know what I'm saying? Be like, "What am I doing here? Let me go there."
And then you're right here, man. because it it's it's going to be amazing, man.
We we need to do something even in that.
I would love to have you guys coming there and and and and have a conversation. I would love to do that, you know. I would love to do that and and you know, you're my twin now. So, wherever I am, uh you got to be there >> and wherever you are, I got to be there.
Your wife, >> listen, I'm I'm I'm I'm there there's a calling for my wife uh prophetically in this continent, man. you know, um >> yeah, >> you know, she's she she we we met we we we met on on on on the path uh knowing that, you know, we we are called to heal this continent.
Um we we are called to have conversations that awaken >> uh orphans into their place of sunship and you know, yes, salvation is great. you know, wanted to go to heaven. Hallelujah.
Amen.
>> Uh but hey, >> it's time for disciplehip. You know, it's time for us to >> take over politics, to take over the media, >> uh to take over spheres of governance.
>> Um >> you know, to be to be the feet of the feet in the hands of Jesus. You know what I'm saying?
you know, the the things that me and you are talking about are not just going to be changed by prayer alone.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um they're going to be changed by us positioning ourselves in places of power, >> you know. But you should never give power to an orphan.
>> You should give power to somebody who knows who they are.
>> Yeah.
Because stewardship requires requires somebody who's secured in the identity. So whatever your vision is and whatever the Lord has given you, >> uh just know that we are midwives and we're going to do what we can to make sure that uh whatever you carry, you know, it comes to flesh uh and is able to change lives. So uh when you say we are twins, it's not just we're not saying this just for fun, you know, in spirit.
>> Um me and you >> we are, [laughter] >> you know, we we we it it is it is it is destined, my brother. It is destined.
>> I just I just need to pray. I just need to pray. I just need to pray for a wife for you and make sure you know, you know, you don't end up in the wrong hands.
>> Amen.
>> Because >> Amen.
>> A man of a man of your caliber, >> a man of your caliber deserves a queen who understands that, hey, >> we're not just here to have cute babies and die a nice death. We are here to shake things up, >> you know.
>> Yeah. And and and [laughter] >> yeah, >> and and and and >> that's my brother, guys. That's my brother. [laughter] >> We not we not yet we not yet we not here to be cute and nice, man. We not here to be >> Yeah.
>> just influencers on social media. No, we are here to, >> you know, when when when we wake up in the morning, the devil has to be like, "Hey, those boys are up. I need to leave." You know, [laughter] >> amen. Amen.
>> You know, because this this continent, this continent needs [clears throat] >> needs us to realize and take position.
>> I love that.
>> You know, nobody, no savior from Europe and the West is coming to save us.
>> We already have everything that we need in this continent to liber to to to liberate ourselves. Oh yeah.
Stop.
>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
>> Yep.
>> Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, um guys, this is not the end of the conversation. So, we're not closing this conversation, but we're thanking God for this conversation cuz it's such a bright day that the Lord has given us. And you know my brother knows how we fought so hard to have this conversation. You know in our heart let me just say this guys in our heart we want to have this conversation even every single week. You know what I'm saying? But my brother knows the struggle since the last conversation. We have been struggling to make this happen until right now. Like I think >> yeah that the devil can the devil can try all he wants. He's just going to get, you know, you can't you can't you you can't you know when they say you can't you can't keep a good man down.
[laughter] >> Yeah. It's impossible. It's impossible.
>> You can't keep you can't keep us down.
You can try all you want.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> My brother.
>> Yeah. Thank you my brother for this evening.
>> Um >> thank you so much, >> you know. So if people have questions, comments, >> they can just share them and then we can respond in the comments and whatever.
>> Yeah. you know, but people must just know that we we are coming in peace.
>> Um, you know, and and and we we we will entertain and engage with those who want to heal and who want peace in this continent.
>> If you just want to come here and [laughter] [clears throat] we we we let's use the energy.
>> Let's use the energy and the frustration towards one another.
>> Yeah.
>> To to build each other, >> not not not not perpetuate disunityity.
>> Um, so I know we are all hurting, but hey, >> we we we can we can heal and we can we can we can do better than our parents.
>> Hey my brother, man, I appreciate you.
Please send my regards to your wife and uh thank you for thank you thank her as well for allowing her to be here right now. Um but uh you know listen I appreciate you taking this time and you know releasing your wisdom here with us.
God bless you and um we're going to have another conversation be you know before my launch. We need to make it happen another conversation. So uh just keep enjoying and um we're gonna have very soon very soon brother. I'll talk with Yeah. God bless you my brother and everybody. Thank you for tuning in.
>> Amen. Amen. Appreciate. Appreciate.
Peace out.
All right. So for for my people, Yes. Yes. But for my brothers and sisters, I would love to summarize everything basically.
You know what is happening africa xenophobia afrophobia.
Ah come on.
Okay.
I think I did a mistake here. Uh, okay. Okay.
Gmail.
All right. All right, guys.
stick around. Reggie Music, I appreciate maybe next time when we have a conversation. Love someone from Diaspora. Reggie, if you'll be available, I would love to have you over. I'll have my brother from uh my another African brother, Twin from Nigeria, GP. Yeah. You know, I'll ask him to be around here. We can have somebody maybe from other countries and just connecting together uh from all over the place and maybe you can have someone from the Netherlands can talk to Marich to be here Netherlands can have someone from the Netherlands you know there's a lot of those are Dutch people you can have her here and have a conversation and ask her you know you know why they took a lot of land in South Africa you know um can have conversation with our sister here and but it's just love man it's just love and soantes uh stay connected uh with our social medias. Go to Soil Nation Network on Facebook, on Instagram, on YouTube. So Nation, go there. We we share uh interesting news every time about Africa. You will learn something. We are focusing on sharing something that actually can can teach you something, you know, but also uh my book is basically out for pre-order. You can find it on in Amazon. A free mind builds a free future. It's over there on Amazon. You can uh pre-order the the launching event is coming soon on 15th of August. I'm very excited about that.
That is going to be like a one Africa forum in a way. You know, that's what we're going to do about this, you know, the launch of the book. I'm I'm very excited. So, um, God bless you guys and I wish everybody a good night. Um, and, um, talk again soon. I love you guys.
Thank you so much. Let me say bye-bye to these people here on on on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. I'm going to say ciao. I love you guys. Thank you for sticking around and um thank you for the members who join membership here on YouTube. We appreciate you guys.
So, the lie began from the very beginning of time, right? And I can ask you one question right now. What does history tells you about Africa? Who discovered Africa?
If you write right now on Google who discovered Africa, you find out that is one white man that he came and discovered Africa. And you can ask yourself that how can you discover a place that already exists. How can you discover a place that people already live in that place? It is impossible.
But that's what the history tells us.
That's what [music] people believe about Africa that it was discovered by a white man. This guy he came and then he went back he gave a report and then the next we know is colonialism cuz those guys they sat somewhere to divide Africa like a piece of cake because they discovered it. They own it. [music] It belonged to them. But that is us. We discovered we're the first people to know. And today you have a lot of people around the world that they think that Africa was discovered by them.
>> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat.
[music] >> [music] [music] >> Heat up here.
[music] Heat. Heat. [music]
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