Community Conversations

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[00:00:04]Well, hello there. Welcome to Community Conversations, everybody. And um I kind of love that the chat is [laughter] already so active and I was I feel like I'm late to the party. So, so good to see you all here tonight. We'll jump into the chat in just a second. Um really excited to be with you. We are going to be talking about all things OCD tonight. But before we jump in, um I just want to go ahead and give a couple quick disclaimers here tonight. So, um just to note, this live stream is educational and is not intended to replace therapy. For treatment related questions, please work with your provider or contact a local clinician.

[00:00:41]Um as always, want to encourage folks to check out this awesome resource here.

[00:00:46]You can go to iocdf.orgfindhelp /findhelp to locate a trained clinician near you um at the IOCDF's online resource directory. It's a fantastic resource if y'all haven't checked it out. Um in addition, just want to note that the International OCD Foundation is not a crisis hotline. If you are in a crisis or if you're ever feeling suicidal or unsafe, please call the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline by dialing 988. You can also access online at www.988life.org.

[00:01:17]go to your local emergency room or call 911.

[00:01:21]Finally, everybody, which I know you all know this, but I I want to say it anyway that we want to create a safe space. We want to be kind and respectful to absolutely everyone because at the end of the day, we are all here to support one another on this journey with OCD and life and everything in between. But I know that this is being broadcast on several social media platforms and is being recorded. So, please keep that in mind as you comment and as you connect with one another. Um, so I would love to of course go ahead and see kind of what's going on in the chat so far. I see Cash. Oh, and Cash is asking, I used to always ask favorite ice cream flavor.

[00:01:57]So, I'll go ahead and ask y'all tonight.

[00:01:58]What is your favorite ice cream flavor?

[00:02:00]Um, double chocolate. Very nice choice.

[00:02:04]Um, I really Mine is Mine is kind of specific and also sounds like I'm 12. My favorite is vanilla and orange swirl with rainbow jimmies. Um, and I say jimmies because I'm originally from the north and we say jimmies as opposed to sprinkles. So, southern southern folks where I am were like, what are you talking about? But I'm curious what y'all think about that. Um, I also see I see I see Chris. So, good to see you. I see Julian butter pecan who decided to make butterflavored [laughter] ice cream. I want to shake their hand. Yeah, Ethan is a big butter pecan fan. Um, Ethan also, I will say, likes I'm not sure if he's watching right now, but I'm going to go ahead and call him out. He likes any banana flavored ice cream, which I think is kind of weird. I will go ahead and say it's been a long day.

[00:02:49]I've had like 12 hours of consultations, and I just had a banana for dinner, so I'm going to eat you after this. I promise. But banana and ice cream is not not kind of my thing. Um, I don't know. Ethan's like all about that. Every time we go to I guess a lot of y'all don't have this. This is a southern thing. Every time we go to kind of our our local ice cream place called Brewers, if anybody knows Brewers, he gets banana flavored ice cream and I think it's kind of weird. Anyway, um Beth, my hermit crab, Kiwi, is watching this on my phone waiting for for Katie.

[00:03:22]Beth, say hi to Kiwi for me. I actually love that name. That is adorable. My aunt's bird was named Kiwi. Um are you sure you're not eating cold butter? Um hi, Matt. So good to see you, Matt. Um, Chris, that is so hard to be in kind of a gap from therapy right now and having a hard day. So, I'm I'm glad that you're here and Oh, thank you for liking the hoodie. M. I actually planned on on changing before this and it just was a day that I've kind of been in the same seat since 8 o'clock this morning. So, it kind of just just hasn't happened.

[00:03:53][laughter] I thought it Whoops. See, I'm losing earrings. It's it's been kind of one of those days. Matt, strawberry and vanilla. Yeah, Midwest we call them sprinkles. Yeah, most places call them sprinkles, but Northeast Jimmy's like all the way. I know, Chris. I promise right after this I'm going to get a legitimate meal. It has just been kind of one of those days. So, that is that is okay. Oh, Jeremy, I see chocolate.

[00:04:16]Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Um, so I want to go ahead and jump in with um kicking off with a question and then I'm going to answer any questions that y'all of course have tonight. Um, but yeah, Philly Jimmy's, thank you, Beth. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I am so glad I am not the only one who says Jimmy.

[00:04:35]Okay. Um, and Spence, so good to see you here. Favorites: chocolate mint, coffee, Rocky World, lemon custard.

[00:04:42]Spence, you like banana, too? I don't know, man. I I don't know. I'm gonna try I'm gonna try. You know what? I said that we were going to be kind and respectful to everyone, so I'm not going to judge anyone for their ice cream flavors. I will I will leave it there.

[00:04:56]Um, so theme, I want to kick us off with a um with a question tonight. Um, and Stick with the Ick is now sponsoring community conversation. So, we typically use whatever our theme of the week is in Stick with the Ick. Um, and this week our theme is actually focused on birthday because we are celebrating Stick with the Ick's 2year birthday. So, I guess it is kind of fitting that I ended up still wearing the sweatshirt tonight. Two years, which is kind of crazy. I can't believe that it's been two years and it seems short and long all at the same time. But in honor of that birthday, we are talking all week about all things scrupulosity and what is scrupulosity? What is OCD more generally? So for this stream tonight, we're not going to focus as much on scrup. We're going to focus a little bit on just what is OCD and going back to the basics. Um and yeah, two years, Beth. Seriously, I know. I can't believe it's been two years. It's gone really fast. And also I it kind of the time time goes all together. Um Oh, your dog was seven on the 22nd. Thank you, Matt.

[00:05:56]Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, we are we are excited about the birthday. But in um our groups this week, we have been talking about what is OCD and what is scrupulosity? And in particular on Monday, we talked about doing an elevator pitch for what is scrupulosity. And I want to ask the same thing for what is OCD? because I think everybody always has these really beautiful definitions in community where we can kind of go off of each other and then we'll dive into other questions.

[00:06:23]But I'm going to put this in the chat.

[00:06:25]What is OCD?

[00:06:28]Your elevator pitch. Okay. And I'm going to explain while I put this up what I actually mean by this. Um, when I talk about an elevator pitch, I am saying you get in the elevator with somebody and you only have a few floors and you have to explain what something is. Um, and especially because all of the acceptances for the conference came out today. I'm thinking often um, gosh, or yesterday, whenever they came out. But I'm thinking about the conference in Seattle for IOCDF, where we're often in a hotel and we see a lot of people in the elevator who say OCD conference.

[00:07:02]Well, what's OCD? What's this OCD conference? If you had like three floors to explain to somebody what OCD is, what would you say? And I'm very serious. I'm curious in the chat. What is your definition of OCD? And I don't, it can be kind of a clinical definition. It doesn't have to be. It might be what it feels like. It might be what an obsession or a compulsion is to you. Um, really, what is OCD? Elevator pitch style. Um, and I'll read some of these and then I'll kind of share my own.

[00:07:32]Cash. Ethan is in fact alive. He is downstairs right now. Actually, as I'm eating my banana up here, y'all can call him out because I don't think he's watching. He He is He is eating a real dinner downstairs. So, yep, he is. Um, okay.

[00:07:49]What is OCD?

[00:07:51]Yeah. So, often for folks with OCD are too smart, too sensitive, too imaginative. And I wouldn't say too, I would just say they're amazingly smart and sensitive and imaginative. And unfortunately OCD comes in and gosh likes to hijack that and twist it, right? That can be so intense. Um, what else do y'all think? Okay, I see Julian OCD's. Did that just happen? But no, seriously, did that just happen? I love that. Um, and hi Sin. So good to see you. I'd love to hear from others.

[00:08:22]Elevator pitch. If somebody if in just a few minutes you had to explain what OCD is, what would you say? I'm going to go ahead and explain it for me. Some some of y'all might have heard me talk about this before, but um I really believe that OCD is something I'm trying to not use any clinical words because I I said we can do something different, but is something incredibly challenging that um is defined by obsessions and compulsions. And those obsessions can come in the form of whatifs, but they can also come in the form of commands or urges or anything else about the stuff that's the most important to us. Um, OCD is egodistonic, which means it latches on to anything that's important to us and twists it. And um with OCD, we often when we get those thoughts get really stuck on them because they're about the things that are the most important to us. We experience some level of discomfort which can come in the form of guilt or shame or fear or anxiety or disgust. Um and to try to get rid of those really uncomfortable feelings, we often engage in compulsions. And unfortunately, those compulsions keep keep us stuck in the cycle. Um, and some of those compulsions might be physical, um, like specifically checking or touching something or doing a ritual in a particular way. But they also can be mental, like rumination or mental review. Um, that is a really long elevator pitch. I think the actual elevator pitch that I would say is um, what I often say is that OCD is really gross ice cream that happens to come in a lot of different gross artificial flavors. always the same ice cream, just tastes a little bit different based on the stuff that's the most important to you where it takes it and it twists it in really painful ways. Um, okay. I'm going to see what else folks had to say.

[00:10:12]Again, elevator pitch on what is OCD.

[00:10:17]When you know thoughts are irrational, they feel so real, you have to do something about them. Yeah, Spence, I think this is this is such a great way to describe it. I'm gonna um address like a little piece of this that I think is really important, too. But the insight for those of us with OCD. Um gosh, it we typically know that it's not rational, right, Spence? Like exactly what you're saying. we have a level of insight and I actually think that's what makes it so painful is because we can say well I know that thing is is um is not true or I know that this isn't rational and yet it feels so real like all of those feelings make me feel like I have to do something about it. Now, I like to flip the language a little bit um because um I always will have folks I'm I'm talking with say you have to do something about it. And I think we give a lot of OCD a lot of power when we say that. And I would love to flip it a little bit and say, well, when you know thoughts are rational, but they feel so real that OCD says you have to do something about them. Um I think that there is something really kind of neat about that of recognizing OCD says we have to. It feels like we have to, but we don't necessarily have to. And I love flipping that power. So I'll often have folks say, "Well, I have to do this compulsion." And I love to change the language to OCD says, "I have to do this compulsion." I think there's kind of power in that, too. I love this, Spence.

[00:11:43]Such a such a great descriptor.

[00:11:48]Yeah. Um, I love that cash kind of cancerous beast that has the upper hand.

[00:11:54]Absolutely.

[00:11:56]Um, and Peter, so good to see you here tonight. H Matt, I see OCD as the Bogart from Harry Potter. It can form into our worst nightmares, but we also have the power of choice. Oh, I love this. To use our values spell and make it so small as values are always greater than fear.

[00:12:12]Matt, Matt is just such a light even through the screen. I'm like, yes, yes, yes. I love this choice point that you mentioned and I have been thinking an awful lot. It's bothering me. I'm going to take out the second earring since the first one fell out and I've, you know, this just looks weird. Anyway, um I often think about the choice point. Um and if folks aren't familiar with the choice point, the cho choice point is we are, you know, experiencing an obsession. We're experiencing discomfort and we get to this point and we get to say, am I going to do a compulsion or am I not going to do a compulsion? And um sometimes I like to imagine this as two paths. And sometimes the pads um look a little bit tricky. Like the compulsion one might look like there's rainbows and sunshine and sparkles and bunnies. It might look really really appealing. But the reality is if we go down that path, it quickly like turns and gets all squiggly and leads us to I don't know why I'm getting really deep into this metaphor, but like some really creepy castle like I don't know in um what am I thinking? in like not Snow White, what castle like in Beauty and the Beast, like you get to some really like castle at the end of the thing, but the other path often looks really scary and like there's a big cliff and how could I possibly go down that but that's actually the one that leads to freedom.

[00:13:31]And when we get to the choice point, we have this really cool opportunity um of well, are we going to choose to make our OCD bigger or am I going to choose to do something different? Am I going to choose to do something really scary? Am I going to choose to take this leap of faith? Um, now y'all might remember from the live stream, I think last time with Ethan, a couple folks were chuckling because Ethan and I have some different approaches to this. Ethan's a little bit harsher than I am. I'm all like compassion land and Ethan's like do the thing. Um, but I will say that Ethan's perspective of do the thing when it comes to the choice point is really helpful for me. And often if I find myself stuck, I'll say, "Well, I really I really feel like I have to do this compulsion because I really want to keep people safe and I want to make sure like everything is okay." And and Ethan's like, "Okay, you get to choose. Do you want to make OCD bigger or not?" And even recently in honor of Stick with the birthday, he said, "Um, do you want to be able to keep running Stick with the Do you want to be able to keep doing faith and OCD work? Do you want to be able to keep being a chaplain or not?"

[00:14:38]He's like, "You have two choices. You can go down the OCD path and throw away everything you care about, or you can take the leap and continue to do this work." Now, that might sound really harsh. Um, it might sound like the choice point is really black and white.

[00:14:51]But I actually think sometimes seeing it in that way, um, I don't know, is kind of a way that we can use OCD against itself. And I'm curious what folks think about that because that's been really powerful to me, even just hearing from Ethan of no, Katie, make the choice.

[00:15:05]Choose OCD or don't. Um, so I love that.

[00:15:08]I'm curious what folks think because I haven't scrolled down in a little bit.

[00:15:10]Folks might be like, "Nope."

[00:15:13]I love this definition. Like something hijacks your survival circuitry and turbocharges it. Totally. I think the word hijack makes so much sense with this. Um, the book I'm writing on OCD, the the subtitle is when OCD hijacks faith and morality because it it really is. It's like it hijacks the stuff that's the most important to us. Um, and I see Nathan. Hi Nathan and oh see so many folks awesome folks here in the chat. Um I love again this focus on the fact that it's egoistonic. Um OCD is made up of difficult thoughts and difficult feelings and then leads to difficult right compulsions. Um because these thoughts and feelings go against our values. They're egoistonic. They go against everything we care about. Um and again that's why they're so distressing, right? It really is. it wouldn't be distressing if it was latched on to the stuff you didn't care about. Um, so I'll often hear from folks, well, I would be able to escape it if I had that OCD theme over there or if I had their theme, I would be totally fine. Like, no big deal. It's like, well, duh. That's why, you know, you have the theme that you have. Um, it is stuck on the thing that is the most important to you personally to you. And that's why everybody's OCD looks so different, too.

[00:16:30]Because we're all different and unique, and our OCD latches on to and twists the stuff that we care about as the unique and awesome humans that we are.

[00:16:39][laughter] Norway. Yeah, it is so hard to make an elevator pitch. This this came up um in group yesterday, too. I was taking notes on what people were saying and I was like man and we need a long elevator and some somebody was saying we need like a 100 floor elevator to like get through this and even even so but I do think it's a helpful exercise to think about it quickly how do we describe it one because we're in situations where we have the opportunity to advocate or to connect or not connect correct misinformation on OCD but two I think it's really helpful for us to kind of boil it down in a simple way too to recognize OCD is really painful And it's this thing that I can fight obsessions, compulsions, I am going to choose to do something different. I think just boiling it down to that, there can be a lot of power in that. Um, at least for me, that's that's been a really beautiful and really powerful thing. Yeah, that second part of Chris's definition. Yeah, you said the OCD is difficult thoughts and feelings that go against our values and that make us feel like we have to do things to get rid of those thoughts and feelings. And I love that you said make us feel like we have to do things, right? Because I think that goes back to the choice of okay, um maybe we don't have to do the thing. OCD makes me feel like I'll have to do the thing, but maybe I don't have to. So, I love that you included that. Yeah, Julian, for so many folks with harm OCD or moral scrupulosity or any type of responsibility related OCD, it might be, if I don't do this compulsion, there will be dead bodies everywhere. Those of you who um are familiar with my story, I spent many years thinking I was responsible for awful, horrible things.

[00:18:15]Um the first obsession I had where I thought a bunch of people's deaths were my fault was in elementary school. Um but then when I al actually lost people in my life and when bad things actually happened in my area and I was confessing to things that weren't my fault. I mean gosh, for me, Julian, I so relate to that because it really was. if I don't do this compulsion, it wasn't just, oh, something bad's gonna happen for me. It was like, people are gonna die and it's gonna be my fault. And I think the argument that OCD made and that I often made to my therapist was, but you don't understand. Um, I have to keep people safe. It's not worth the risk. And that's where OCD keeps us stuck because it kind of creates this risk that doesn't really exist and says, but what if, but what if it is really a risk?

[00:19:01]Don't you care enough about people to just protect them? So painful. Oh, Sarah, I'm so glad I'm so glad that you said this um because I I know you've shared this before and I love this. A maladaptive drive to protect yourself andor the things and people you care about most. Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, and I mean, we can talk about this, too. I love this shift to recognize that the end of the day with OCD, we really are just trying to protect ourselves, right? And um I think people have two perspectives on OCD. I will say I kind of hold both at different times. But there's this idea of OCD as this big scary evil monster that wants to destroy our life. I very much relate to that. But there's also this perspective that I think is really important to think about that comes out of what Sarah's talking about here. Um, and that's that OCD is kind of just misinformed and it's trying to protect you. Um, and sometimes I imagine it as this little gremlin behind me with like a runny nose and dragging a blanket.

[00:20:03]Shauna Nicely used to talk about something like this, so some of this is kind of adapted from her, but I imagine it being like, "Excuse me, Katie." Like, um, I just kind of want you to be safe, so can um are are you sure that that thing is Oh, no. Nope. You did this thing over here. Can we just And again, I I love kind of thinking of it like that because it also kind of takes power recognizing, oh wait, it's just trying to protect me, but in a way that's really not helpful. The same way your fire alarm in your house that's beeping in the middle of the night because it's low on batteries is trying to protect you, but it's really not helpful when it's screeching for no reason.

[00:20:38]Um, actually, funny story. um where Ethan and I lived before here. We used to live in a townhouse about an hour from here um before we kind of moved. I don't know why I'm giving you so much detail about our moving. We live we [laughter] lived in this other place, but um the fire alarms um it was the setup was really bizarre where anytime one fire alarm would be low on batteries, it would set all of the other ones off and if you tried to change them, it would set the other ones off. and never fail. It would be like every few weeks for some reason in this particular space, one would be low on batteries and it would set all of the other ones off no matter how many times we change them. And it was so funny and I used to think about it kind of like this OCD piece. It's like, oh my gosh, there's no fire and it is really trying to protect us, but in a really annoying, not helpful way that's actually preventing us from sleeping on a very regular basis.

[00:21:36]Um, oh, hi Dearra. So good to see you.

[00:21:40]Yeah, flipping that power from OCD to self is a huge treatment step. It absolutely is. Um, and recognizing that choice point, even recognizing there is a choice. Um, and I often like to ask folks kind of where where is the choice?

[00:21:54]And that was really helpful for me. Um, because I I want to acknowledge it is not our choice to have OCD. It's not our choice to get stuck on the things that we care so much about and on the values that OCD twists and turns in really scary, awful ways. that is totally not a choice. Um, but how we respond to OCD is a choice and that's super cool. Like there's power in that. Can't control the thoughts, can't control it feeling sticky and icky and all the things. But I get to choose each and every day how I wake up and respond. Um, and even as I'm saying that right now, I can feel me kind of putting my shoulders back because there was something earlier today that I was kind of like, am I a bad person? And who knows? and I get to be like, "No, I get to freaking choose how I respond to this. I get to do something different." And there is so much power in that. So, if you're watching tonight and you're feeling that, I would love to have you throw your shoulders back and say, "Od, I get to figure out how I respond." Like, that is so so cool. Um, Ethan always talks about too, even in recovery, there's often this fear of, well, what if I relapse or what if I take steps backward? And you know, everybody will always take steps forward and steps back, but one of the things Ethan has told me when I've had lapses before is, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, am I going all the way back?" He's like, "You get to kind of choose like you have these skills and tools." And he's like, "I know it's hard, but you get to choose what you do today and tomorrow. And even once you, you know, start to engage in compulsions, you can choose to come back from that." And it's like, man, it's hard, but there is something so powerful about that.

[00:23:29]Um yeah. Um I cannot notice what is and isn't a compulsion anymore. It is a sly self. How do you beat I don't know the last piece. Okay. So you can clarify for me a little bit later. I know I'm like 10 minutes behind on comments, so I'll get there. But um I'm curious what this looks like. Are you talking about physical compulsions? Are you talking about mental compulsions? Um I always like with this to go back to what the amazing Dr. Liz Mackingale often talks about which is what's the function or I like to say WTF. Um, and to figure out if something's a compulsion, we can often ask, well, what's the function of the behavior that we're engaging in?

[00:24:07]whether it's a physical behavior or some kind of mental behavior or ritual and is the function what I would ask for folks with scrupulosity is is the function from a space of meaning and connection and hope or joy or you know something in line with your values versus is it from a space of fear or guilt or shame or anxiety or I have to do this or I have to get this right or it feels really urgent and really anything can be compulsive that's the irony right um with scrupulosity you know might be prayer. It might be me walking out of that door. But in and of itself, prayer isn't compulsive in on its own. Me walking out that door isn't compulsive on its own, but it is if I'm doing it from a space of urgency or trying to get it right or doing it again and again. So the way that we're doing it and the function behind it becomes really, really important.

[00:25:00]But what if we don't know what to do that is not compulsive? I often question is this action compulsive? Obsessing about obsessing. Well, I think this brings the second part of what I was just talking about. Then we can also sometimes get stuck on it, right? Well, is this compulsive? Is this not? Um, you know, am I or I'll often hear from folks, am I moving forward in recovery in the right way? Am I stepping forward correctly? And we can get kind of stuck on that too. And to a certain point with that, we get to kind of throw our hands up and say, "Maybe, maybe not. I might not be catching every compulsion, right?

[00:25:35]I might not be doing treatment correctly all the time. And you know what? That's okay. Um, let's let's get a B minus or a C+ in this and that'll that'll be enough.

[00:25:45]Um, yeah. And I love the you starting with a what if. If it I if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, probably a duck. If it what ifs like OCD and I think I said that wrong. If it looks like OCD and what ifs like OCD, it's probably OCD. Sorry, I kind of killed that a little bit. Um, I love this description. OCD. You're a puppet and OCD is the puppeteer. You're not in control of your life anymore.

[00:26:14]That's how I would explain it to someone. Love that. Um, that I think that's really beautiful because it does it often feels like we're kind of OCD is pulling the strings. And then with this control piece and this choice point that we're talking about, we could kind of imagine in some ways that treatment is about I don't know um re reclaiming the the ropes of the puppet or um I don't know being able to kind of take back control of the puppet that is your life.

[00:26:43]I love that Beth.

[00:26:45]Um yeah and Chris. Yeah, that was the point you were trying to make. Yeah, it's it's OCD is so interesting. Um, entering recovery can feel like taking a leap, which is kind of like a baby bird leaving the nest. You want to fly, but it forces you to leave the perceived safety of what you know. Yeah, absolutely. And this is where I often think of it really as a leap of faith or as something as something spiritual, which really I think can apply to folks across religious and spiritual traditions or who don't identify with a particular faith tradition. It really is this leap of faith or leap into the unknown. Um like gosh, I think about so we have some baby birds under our deck right now and I've been I was kind of thinking about this with what you said Sarah of you know they kind of have two options there, right? They either get to jump out of the nest and kind of fly off and do their thing or they get to get stuck in the nest and never experience their life. And it feels really really safe.

[00:27:44]But the reality is that being kind of stuck in the nest forever is even is even scarier. They don't actually get to go out. They don't get to live. They don't get to do the things they were created to do. So I often think treatment is really taking this leap of faith and you know being able to reclaim this big beautiful awesome life that we were created to live. And I love that you said perceived safety of what you know, right? Because just because it's what the baby birds know hanging out in the nest doesn't mean that a snake or a hawk isn't going to I don't want to go down that road. [laughter] Sorry. I I really like the baby birds under our thing. I'm like, "Okay, let's not go there." But yes, [laughter] all of all of all of this. Okay. Um thoughts and compulsions that come from nowhere at speeds the brain cannot logically stop.

[00:28:28]Like a dog suddenly crossing the road while driving, you slam the brakes or swerve to miss it. Sometimes you cannot choose, you only react. Yeah. I mean, thoughts with OCD, right? We we can't Well, I always like to say everybody has intrusive thoughts. Nobody can control their thoughts. A lot of times our thoughts are just moving because we see things and we're making associations, but those of us with OCD give additional importance to them and get really stuck on them. And compulsions, like we're talking about there, there is a choice element there. But when we have OCD for a really long time and we're so used to doing compulsions, those feel so automatic. They really do. Um, and it's often what I tell folks, you know, with evidence-based treatments, um, firstline treatment, you know, if if you take a look at the OCD treatment guide, talks about like ERP and medication together.

[00:29:16]Um, and what medication, well, it's ERP or medication or kind of both. I can put a link for the treatment guide, but the medication piece and I'm always mindful I am not a psychiatrist and not giving medical advice. But I do think the benefit of medication where folks can be really nervous about it is sometimes giving a little extra space to use your skills and tools like in ERP because sometimes that space as Victor Frankle would tell us between stimulus and response feels non-existent. It almost feels like the obsession comes and then we do the compulsion because we've been so used to doing the compulsion. So anything we can do as a part of treatment to create a little extra space so that we can make a choice is such a big brave awesome beautiful thing.

[00:30:00]Yeah. And co Yeah. made OCD education um really really hard.

[00:30:07]Oh, and Matt, I'm I'm so glad that you like what what Ethan mentioned and I I appreciate kind of the I don't know cut and dry nature of it. And sometimes I'll say, as much as I'm the flowery, compassionate one, I'll say, I really need that in my life. Um, I really sometimes need somebody to say, make the choice. Like, are you going to do this thing or you not? And there's there's something really cool about that. Um, oh, I haven't seen you in a while. It's so good to see you, David. Um, OCD is a relevant noise. Yeah, totally. Just irrelevant junk. Um it's junk mail where we have this kind of um faulty spam filter that actually isn't filtering it out.

[00:30:47]Contam. Yeah. So Julian talking about contam folks with contamination OCD. Um it's so interesting because you're right like they might look at you and say like man um you are doing all sorts of interesting things related to they would look at me the same way. I don't have contamination OCD and um I probably do all sorts of things that are really bizarre. But on the flip side, then you would look at them and say,"I cannot believe that they don't worry about this thing." Right? It is so fascinating that our thing is the scariest possible thing. Now, I will go ahead and say contamination OCD can leak into lots of other things. Um, one of our IOCF talks that just got accepted is the many faces of contamination OCD. trying to remember if that's hybrid or I think it's just in person in Seattle but um we're looking at physical contamination but also emotional and spiritual contamination which is so interesting because OCD can kind of take it onto those forms too. Um love all these images. Yeah. and and David adding um difficult feelings um that um yeah there's difficult feelings um good to have some company [laughter] elevator pitch zero stars would not recommend um yeah Sarah that is like when we think about an elevator pitch that's probably the easiest somebody goes yeah what's OCD zero stars don't recommend that's fantastic I love that um Brian thank you for this um OCD can be like snowflakes all cases I have never heard. I don't know if you just made up this analogy or if you've heard it. This is great. All cases are different, but may have some similarities. Suffering from magical thinking, I've had both dreams and thoughts come to pass. It's been reinforcing my OCD lately. I couldn't Oh, I couldn't save my mom's life and with magical thinking and now it's transferred to someone else. Um, a good title for an OCD book could be, "Am I overthinking this?" So, first of all, that's a fantastic title and I am so sorry about, you know, anything that you've navigated with magical thinking or loss. And um I have navigated um similar with folks in my life that I care about and and feeling like we have to do to do particular things to keep them safe. And um it it is so intense.

[00:33:02]And and you're right, um the snowflake piece, I I love that because you're right, every snowflake is different and there are there similarities. We're all here like, "Oh, that thing resonates."

[00:33:11]But then occasionally somebody will be like, "That's not what mine's like."

[00:33:14]Right? We all have these kind of kind of differences, too. Thank you for that, Brian. And I I resonate deeply um with the magical thinking piece as well.

[00:33:24]Okay. Wow. I am like 15 minutes behind, y'all. I usually keep up with the bottom, but I'm just I'm kind of rolling with where I am. I'm apparently trying a new strategy. Um Jillian, my moral scrupulosity doesn't care about getting people sick for some reason. Mine goes in and out with that. There's some times where I've been like, "Oh, whatever. As long as I'm not like a murderer, right?"

[00:33:44]But then other times I've worried about it. Yeah. I think OCD is so bizarre like that.

[00:33:49]Yeah. And everyone is so different, which is why OCD can feel so hard to explain. And I think it goes back again to kind of that that ice cream thing and and just being able to say, "Yeah, it shows up in different ways for each person. Takes whatever's the most important to somebody and twists it." Um because again, yeah, so individual and yet has commonalities.

[00:34:10]Um I do agree that for many there's an element of wanting to feel safe, loved, seen, and connected. Um and I'm curious what folks think of that as well. Um I I think that that is really a common thing. Um I was talking to somebody earlier today um about kind of commonalities across OCD presentations and we were talking about you know not always but often low self-esteem and struggles with self-compassion. Um and I do think there's that big piece which of course um they have a bully in our head like all the time. So of course that's going to be really tough. Um oh I'm going to have to watch this.

[00:34:52]There was a show on Disney Plus, I forget the name, but it has a good analogy for anxiety that is exactly like the gremlin with the runny nose and blanket. Instead, it's a gray blob that um Oh, the show is called Win or Lose.

[00:35:07]Okay, don't mind me, y'all. I'm just over here writing this down in my notes.

[00:35:14]I will have to check that out. That's um that would be super interesting along with that. Um, and yeah, so Cash, so just what I was thinking here, that self-esteem and OCD piece. And Stacy, so good to see you. Um, yeah, kind of like the phenomenon where where kidnapped identifies with their kidnappers. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's I've Gosh. Yeah, Stockholm syndrome. Absolutely. Um, so I think Yeah, I think that is such a great I gosh, that's a whole different conversation I could get into, but um Oh, Enoch, hi. So good to see you. Um, and and just so glad that you're here with us tonight. Thank y'all. I'm seeing folks roll in and so glad to to have you. Um, yeah, choosing how to respond.

[00:35:56]That is that's a big thing as we talk about this that I I keep coming back to.

[00:36:04]Does it feel lonely being a leader in the OCD world? Um, so thank you for asking that question. I actually, so it's interesting. I feel the least lonely probably that I I have have ever felt. So I felt really alone as an OCD sufferer. Um partly because I didn't know what was going on and I spent so many years where I was in a very public role that I felt like I wasn't able to be fully myself or to express who I actually was and I was struggling with so much that I had so much shame about. that to me felt really really lonely. Um, I actually feel so connected now. Um, honestly, most of my best friends are in the OCD space and actually spend more time, love all my clergy friends, but most of the people I spend time with are kind of my psychologist friends and my folks in the OCD community. And that feels feels really nice. And I think part of it is because I've gotten to be myself and most of the folks I mean y'all know even Ethan we met in the OCD space and people I've met with advocacy and there there can be times where um where things feel lonely. I I I know I mentioned this was a day that I've been at my computer since like 8:00 this morning with um doing lots of and that's more kind of a a work piece, but um I think for the most part I don't know I feel really seen getting to be in this space and I feel like it's really it's really a gift because even when I'm kind of quote unquote working or writing or leading or researching and doing things like that, I'm getting to connect with awesome folks like all of you that were on the same journey together and there's there's nothing lonely about looking at everybody in this chat and saying, "Hey, we're we're doing this thing together." Um, so thank you for asking. I think it's the least lonely and there have been psyches, you know, I went through some stuff a couple years ago where I felt really lonely um in the space, but in this moment, no, I feel really seen. Um, thank you. Um, let's see.

[00:38:13]>> [laughter] >> I envision you and Ethan being like the last stop post on the wild west of OCD land. Yeah, that's very that's really funny. That's really really funny. Um yeah, I I think this is such an important piece to bring up, David, about the content. Um and this is why um I I'm curious what folks think about even talking about OCD themes and subtypes. And you know, of course, I run a faith and OCD community that's primarily focused on scrupulosity. So there there is a part of me that, you know, of course, cares deeply about different themes and manifestations of OCD. But I really do like coming back to the fact that it's just OCD, right?

[00:38:54]Because it really does try to convince us that the only way we can get out is through the content and through picking apart the content and figuring out the content or even figuring out, does mine really match this theme and does it fit within this neat little box? And um I really think that OCD themes and subtypes and manifestations, you know, of course, help with things like exposure and response prevention when you're working with a clinician to put together a hierarchy related to your core fears and things like that. Um and also in finding community. Um but yeah, sometimes we really can get stuck in the mud of um really focusing on the content when it's not about the content. I remember years ago, Shala Nicely, my therapist at the time when I was really sick, I used to tell her, "But this and I really could have hurt somebody and and but this and this and this." And she'd be like, "Katie, it's not about the content. It's not about the content." And I used to hate when she would say it. And now I like I get it now.

[00:39:52]Yeah, my mind gets stuck. And am I doing a values-based action here, too? Yeah, we can totally get stuck on that with OCD o OCD as well. And I think we can even use non-engagement responses here and be like, "Yep, maybe valuedriven, maybe not. Maybe I picked the wrong thing." Um, yeah, the Truman Show, the puppet comment was so real. I think that was Beth, right? That was that was awesome.

[00:40:16]Um, autoimmune disorder. Yeah, these are so good.

[00:40:21]Blackbird by the Beatles reminding you of leaving the nest analogy.

[00:40:26]Um, [laughter] oh my gosh, are we the birds eating regurgitated sit with us from therapists? That is that's like super bizarre and I kind of love it. Oh, that's fantastic. That might be that might be the highlight comment for tonight. That was that was awesome. Um yeah, I I love the baby bird metaphor, Sarah, and I love that you you you have done that in chaplency um in um in your work as well. That's really awesome.

[00:41:04]Yeah. Um I'm curious. When I'm in public, I honestly make no effort to resist compulsion. So Julie, I'm curious for you. Like I I would love to hear more about that. Um, and and I wonder like what what the why is behind that.

[00:41:18]And I also wonder if there is a way to step forward and to say, "Hey, there's this one area that I'm not all at once, but that I'm going to try something different tomorrow, just in this one space, this one area."

[00:41:31]Choice point. Oh, it does sound like a good name for a gym or mental health clinic. But you play one on TV. I don't know what that was in reference to, man.

[00:41:40]I totally missed that. Um, that was from 10 minutes ago. I'm going to have to go back and see when Patrick commented that. Let me scroll down if there's any other anybody here. I just scrolled down to the bottom. Do we know what Patrick was talking about? But you play one on TV.

[00:41:55]H feel like I will never I You know what?

[00:41:59]I'm just going to sit with the uncertainty about it. I don't know what I play on TV, but um we're gonna we're gonna sit with all of it.

[00:42:06]Um, yeah, OCD feels involuntary, but we do set up the strings for the puppeteer OCD to do its thing. I love this. Again, back to kind of that agency and that choice there. Um, yeah, still. Okay, I'm going to stop.

[00:42:22][laughter] I'm like, what do I play on TV? I definitely have Ethan has. I haven't been on TV. Um, yeah, junk mail.

[00:42:28]That whole spam thing. Um, yes, it's totally the kind of junk mail that has an exclamatory urgent printed on the envelope. It's like urgent, read now, awful things will happen if not. It's um our folks here. Do y'all remember when chain mail used to be like a really big thing with email where it would be like up you have to pass this thing to 10 people or X Y and Z is going to die and that's going to happen. I think that's that's often kind of an OCD piece too.

[00:42:56]Um wow Sarah, that fascinates me down bad with contamination OCD, but I've never once worried that I ran over someone with my car. It's funny the things our brains latch on to. It's so fascinating because contamination OCD has never bothered me, but I've worried that I've hit lots of people with my car. Um, so interesting. Yeah, totally. David, skip the content. Same loop no matter what the topic. Yeah.

[00:43:22]Um, yeah, I think this is so so important to bring up too. OCD causes me to have brain fog, which therefore causes me to have difficulty doing critical thinking.

[00:43:31]Um, and I think there can be lots of of reasons for this that um, you know, we can kind of think through. But I think with OCD, it often feels like we're kind of living two lives. We're living the one that we're actually engaging in and where we are out in the world, the one that people see. And then there's this constant narrative running in our head where we're trying to stay safe or we're trying to do the right thing or we're trying to do this or we're trying to do that. And it's like, well, of course, it's hard to think about anything else. We're living two lives and of course we're so tired by the end of the day.

[00:44:05]Simone or someone Simone. Um well, I'm so glad that you're here. Um and it says, "I feel like I must always do ERP and can't dismiss thoughts as false.

[00:44:17]This makes me waste time, especially in exams when OCD gets worse. If I can't do ERP, my anxiety increases and can't let go." Yeah. So, I'm so glad you brought this up and I think this is such a such a great example of um where sometimes and I'm curious what this looks like for you um and and you know if you've worked with a therapist and if y'all have talked about this but I think sometimes our treatment itself can become compulsive um and that doesn't mean to to stop doing treatment it means to kind of address it with your provider and potentially do it in a different way um but I think sometimes we end up starting to use elements of our treatment as okay if I have a thought then I have to do a specific ERP exercise for this right now and it has to be this way. Um and sometimes it'll even feel like well we have to do this right or we have to get this right in order to move on or that's the only responsible thing to do either for my recovery or to keep people safe.

[00:45:13]um when in reality um we actually the point of ERP is actually to increase our anxiety and to practice letting it be there so that it decreases on its own.

[00:45:25]Um, so I think this is kind of an interesting and I think a really beautiful thing that you're recognizing this because this could even be recognizing a stuck point or a stuck point to getting to to where you want to go of okay maybe we don't need to dismiss the thoughts as false and maybe each time we have a thought it's not about doing a specific you know ERP exercise often with our our providers that'll be to kind of practice when OCD pops up in the wild but maybe when OCD pops up in the wild we really get to practice letting that anxiety be there and doing the response response prevention. Um, and maybe I'm I'm curious if that's something that you've talked to your provider about because I think that could be a really beautiful thing and you just have such great insight to even know that this is coming on or coming up.

[00:46:08]Yeah, the more you worry about OCD messing with your memory, the worse your memory gets. Um, I kind of think about this too. So, false memory, OCD was a big part of my journey. Um, and the more I would try to remember something or the more I would try to remember something in a particular way or in a specific way, the more um, it would be really fuzzy and the more I would question it and the less I would be able to remember it. And that's such an interesting thing. The more we try to get certainty or or clarity, the more it becomes kind of murky.

[00:46:41]Oh, so this was a follow-up to kind of the last piece. What do you think is the best in this high s high anxiety time pressured situation? Um, and again, I would love to hear more about what situations you're talking about, but I would really say, um, that these are some really good opportunities to work with your your therapist or work with your team and practice um, what does it look like to actually practice in different points. Maybe not in those um, those urgent moments, but starting to practice what it looks like to let anxiety be there without having to get rid of it. Because that's really the whole point of of ERP. Um, Dr. Dr. Emily Bailey, who I do a lot of work with, often says little E and big RP. And the idea is the exposure is important, but what's really important is that response prevention. That's kind of where the magic happens, where we get to practice not doing the compulsion so that we can I mean, that's what stick with the ick means, honestly. So that we can stick with the ick and feel all of the really uncomfortable feelings to do something different and to make OCD smaller.

[00:47:42]Yeah, David is saying exactly what I was saying. Sometimes um OCD manages to turn tools into trying to make anxiety and uncertainty go away, which defeats the purpose of the tools. And I'll take it one step further because OCD can get really meta. Then I've also heard people say, "Well, I'm worried about my OCD doing that, so I don't want to use any tools." And I'm like, "Well, that's not helpful either. We want to use skills and tools." Y'all, OCD is so wonky. It really, really is.

[00:48:12]Nathan, I want to hear more about this.

[00:48:14]What do you mean by that? I have OCD about what other people's values are.

[00:48:17]So, does that mean your OCD latches on what's what's important to others? I'm I'm definitely curious about that.

[00:48:24]Um, the internet makes it a lot easier.

[00:48:28]Yeah.

[00:48:29]Um, [laughter] I ran in an exercise class today and the trainer yelled, "You can do hard things." And I wanted to tell her that the OCD community owns [laughter] that.

[00:48:42]Yeah, totally. They were like, "M, no, no, we're the ones who are really doing hard." That's so funny. That's so so so funny. Um, so I I often, you know, it's it's really funny. I often think about that when I'm running or when I'm training. I have a high rocks race in a couple weeks and I've been doing kind of a lot of training for that. And often when I'm kind of in the pain cave with training, I'll actually try to remind myself, okay, I do way harder things like facing OCD or I have done way harder things facing OCD than this.

[00:49:11]Like, I can get through this.

[00:49:14]Matt, all I can say to this is yes, we all need to do a collective valuedriven exposure at Disney World 100,000%.

[00:49:22]Um, I think that this this needs to happen. Um, love this. Oh, these comments are so great. Yeah. So, Shalina nicely, I've talked about her a few times tonight.

[00:49:34]the shoulders back perspective is so fantastic and and um her mentor was Reed Wilson who is also fantastic who really focuses on kind of this confidence that we um show up to show up to I don't know how I'm saying this. Yeah. This confidence that we respond to OCD with it's been a long day y'all. I'm losing my words here. But that confidence that we respond to OCD with. So when um I think a really good example of this, so I'll go ahead and say so I've said a couple times, Shala was um my therapist many moons ago and um saved my life. I don't think I would be here without Shala to be honest. Um and I'm so thankful for her beyond what I can say.

[00:50:15]And she um worked with me while I was working in school chapency and just um man oh man oh man. But shoulders back was something that we did like on a daily basis. And she actually made me stand up when I was doing exposures.

[00:50:31]Throw my shoulders back. And she would ask me how excited I was to feel anxious. She would say Wonder Woman pose. Hands on hips, shoulders back. And I'm actually going to do it because this is what she would make me do. She would say, "Okay, I'm gonna move my chair."

[00:50:46]Okay. Yeah. She would say shoulders back, right? She would say, "Hands on hips." And when I was doing exposures or doing scripting, I would say literally, okay, yeah, I may or may not be a horrible person. Bring it on. No, come on, OCD. I want to get more anxious than that. I am so excited to be anxious today. I cannot [clears throat] wait to feel so much anxiety and guilt and shame so that I have to make you smaller.

[00:51:09]Bring it on. I hope I'm horrible. Y'all, there is such a big difference between that shoulders back attitude, the posture, all of it, and me crunching over and going, "Okay, I hope I feel anxious today. Um, I may be a horrible person. I got anxious just just saying that." And this to me, the shoulders back, the confidence, it's acting as if.

[00:51:30]It really is. And there's a difference, I think, between that and masking. I'm not telling you to mask and pretend you're okay when you're not. I want you to be authentic to who you are. But when we're facing OCD, when we're responding to OCD, acting as if, putting our shoulders back, pretending we are so freaking ready for it and that we're confident, I always say we're going to scare OCD back into its cave. It's going to be like, whoa, that is that is too much. She is way too pumped about this.

[00:51:56]Okay, I'm going to move my chair back over. That was I I love shoulders back if y'all didn't didn't catch that.

[00:52:04]Um, yeah, I think that's such a good point.

[00:52:08]I think talking about themes can help me flag, oh right, this is the OCD thing again and I know how to deal with that.

[00:52:13]Some themes can get weird and abstract, so they slip beneath the radar. Yeah, I think and that is a a benefit of talking about themes. I know if we're not getting super into the weeds into the weeds with it for me too, um throughout the years it's been well, if it relates remotely to this topic, even if it feels different, I'm going to trust in this season of my life that it's probably OCD. And that's been really helpful.

[00:52:37][laughter] Yeah. Ethan is definitely not at a cooking event. He is downstairs eating leftovers from last night that are probably going to be gone by the time I get down there. So, I think I will be having like [laughter] not not actual dinner. Um, let's see.

[00:52:56]Yeah, if I stop doing one compulsion, it'll h topple the whole thing. And I think that was in response to I was asking, you know, if you choose to do something different in public. And my response to that would be, I'm going to be a little pushy. um [laughter] and say, "Is that really the case?" Um is that a distortion?

[00:53:15]Will stopping doing one thing really topple the whole thing? I know it feels like it will. And I know often if we feel a certain way, then it can, you know, lead to other things, but will it really? Is it possible to do something a little bit something a little bit different? Because I think I think OCD keeps us stuck in that, too. It's like, well, I can't give up one because it'll topple everything else. And I would ask, is that is that really true? And um do we care enough about ourselves and our recovery? Do we believe enough in ourselves to maybe try something a little different, even a small step, because small steps make a really big difference.

[00:53:52]Yeah. Um Enoch, I relate to that, too.

[00:53:55]Um I'll have people say, "What themes have you had?" And I'm like, "What themes have I not had?" Right. Um lots of things are important to me. I think I'm [laughter] I don't know. I have a wide variety of interests and things I care about. So OCD totally shows up like a car filled with clowns. I totally relate to that.

[00:54:15]I think Patrick meant playing a medical professional.

[00:54:21]What was I talking? I still don't know what we were talking about, but that's okay. Um Ethan played one on TV. I didn't play one on TV. Oh, I do know what he was talking about because I was like, I am not Okay, that totally makes sense. I was like I was like, I'm not giving medical advice. Okay, got it.

[00:54:40]Makes sense now. Um, let's see.

[00:54:46]Chain letters.

[00:54:49]Yeah.

[00:54:51]Yeah.

[00:54:52]Yeah, it was the I'm not a doctor butt.

[00:54:54]Okay. Got it. Got it.

[00:55:00]Yeah, not not that kind of doctor, not the medical kind, the theology kind.

[00:55:04]Little little different. Um, yeah. Um, anxiety isn't the problem.

[00:55:10]It's the tolerance of it that's the problem. OCD always comes in when you want to get rid of anxiety and says it's the solution, but that's just a trap.

[00:55:19]Um, 10,000%. Um, yeah, it isn't actually the feeling at all, whether that's anxiety, guilt, shame, disgust, whatever it is for you. because I know that looks different for everybody. Um it's it isn't the problem with that. It's, you know, our tolerance of that discomfort.

[00:55:36]Um yeah, Ethan did play a serial killer on TV. He also played a doctor on TV. He's played quite a few things on TV.

[00:55:47]Yes. Sticking with the ick for discomfort.

[00:55:51]Yes. I mean, that's all that's what it's all about. Um, and yeah, other disorders can can definitely amplify OCD. Y'all, we are in our last couple minutes here.

[00:56:01]I'm try to scroll through and see if there's any more questions or anything like that.

[00:56:08]Oh, yes. And Chris, I did see that. I actually wrote it down. Um, so yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, I'm gonna see if there Yeah, OCD can absolutely um seep into dreams. Um, oh, I love that. Um that that is that is such it's such a neat thing to be able to have that realization of oh wait I think I have OCD. What does that look like? Um okay.

[00:56:38]Yeah. I was going to see if there's any more OCD questions for me. Oh, and there's my mother-in-law. Hi Liz.

[00:56:46]Uh okay.

[00:56:55]I have the image of a teammate lifting up my head when I made a mistake on the court. Shoulders back as a way for me to be my own best friend. Jeremy, I love that. And I think the recognition that it's something that's self-compassionate is so beautiful. Just so beautiful.

[00:57:12]Um yeah, Reed Wilson also says that um you want to question if doing the OCD is the only way or if there are other options to effectively respond to anxiety. Um yeah, and folks are noticing even how going to Disney could be anxietyprovoking. And I want to go ahead and say that is not a reason not to do it. Actually, we want to do things that are valuedriven and increase um our anxiety.

[00:57:37]H.

[00:57:40]Yeah.

[00:57:44]Um. Oh, did I did I miss something? Um, let's see.

[00:57:56]Um, I saw Is everybody okay? I saw like somebody being offended and just want to make sure everybody's okay. Katie, I have some, but think of it right now. I wish I could talk to a therapist. Um, Chris, yeah, if any if anybody is in need of immediate support, please do call 988 because I want everybody to have the support that they that they need and the love and care that they need. Um, but I'm sorry OCD was so hard today, Chris. And um I also want you to hear that I believe in you with all of my heart and I believe in everybody here with all of my heart. Um and if it has been a tough day, um it's okay. Like it's okay if today has sucked. Um I'll say I'm feeling a little overwhelmed tonight, too. So we'll kind of we'll kind of do it together. And I just want you all to know that um as somebody who remembers what really intense days felt like um I know it can suck. I know it can really really suck. And I also so believe in hope. Um and Chris, I believe in you. I just watched you preach two se stellar sermons and finish um a semester and just amazing amazing things. Um, and you can do hard things. I really believe that. Um, and OCD is going to tell you that you can't. Um, that you can. And everybody here, y'all can. You can. You 100% can. And we are here for you. And we are here to cheer you on on the journey. So, thank you all so much for just being here tonight, everybody.

[00:59:43]you are so worthy of um of reclaiming life and um doing all of the things. As we close out tonight, I do want to let you know what is coming up tomorrow. Um let's see.

[01:00:00]So, um tomorrow um oh this is a really good one. So, right here, same place, um there is an Ask the Experts with Chris Tronston and um um he has a special guest on on how tech can support OCD and anxiety. So, that'll be that'll be a really really awesome stream. So, feel free to tune in for that. And also want to go ahead and remind folks that the IOCDF is a donor supported nonprofit organization. So, if you are enjoying this programming, if you're enjoying programming across the board, we would love to have you donate to the IOCDF at iocdf.org/donate.

[01:00:42]And also, finally, I would love to invite anyone to join us in the stick with the IT community. If you would like to learn more about all things faith and OCD, you can head over to faith and OCD.com.

[01:00:54]Oh, nothing happened. Chris was seeking reassurance that he didn't offend. Ah, okay. So, Enoch, this will go ahead and tell you. This is how my my day has been rough. I was like, "Is everyone okay?" I was like ready to jump through the screen and make sure everybody was feeling okay. Um, yeah. Oh, Christie [laughter] is your second favorite host after Katie. I'll have to I'll have to tell him that, Cash. He I'll I'll text him. He will He will not be thrilled.

[01:01:17]Yes, Nathan. I know. I I I know. I sometimes flip flip how I I say his name. I I um think about it so hard now that I think I I think I do it worse.

[01:01:27]So, I actually told him and and I forget. He gave me um a special way to remember how to say it. He said he forgets how to say it sometimes, too.

[01:01:34]So, it made me feel a little better because now I'm like Tronen Tron. Yeah, I I So, I apologize. I'm working on it.

[01:01:42]It's funny. He's a good friend of mine.

[01:01:44]It's been one of my best friends for years and apparently still I flip-flop how I say his name. So y'all can you can tell him he can start calling me instead of Katie Odun, Katie Odun as um repayment for um saying it incorrectly.

[01:01:57]Tronden.

[01:02:00]Um working on it, I promise. Okay, as we close out tonight, um I would love because this kind of felt like just a thing where I was talking but also y'all were talking too. I would love to hear one to three words for folks who are still here in the chat about how you're leaving our time together tonight. How are you leaving our time together tonight? I know this wasn't a group, but I don't know. It felt very lively tonight, so terms of checkout before we get off. One to three words on how we're leaving our time together tonight.

[01:02:32]Um, what do y'all think? Trying my best.

[01:02:36]I love that. Trying my best. That's awesome.

[01:02:41]How else y'all?

[01:02:43]Um, yes, you are the pronunciation police.

[01:02:47]Happy poker winning. Oh, defeated.

[01:02:53]Julian, I would love to hear more. I'm so sorry that you're feeling defeated. I think that you are such a freaking rock star. Um, just so you know, and I know OCD is a jerk and sucks. Um, but I don't know. I believe in you a lot. Um, love for community. Um, joyful, still trying, lighter, grateful, connected, deflated.

[01:03:16]I'm sorry, Chris. Um, and know that we're here for all of it. Um, but comforted, too. Okay. Inspired. Oh, Jeremy, thank you. Jeremy, I'm so glad to see you. So, so, so glad to see you.

[01:03:32]Jeremy is doing beautiful, beautiful chapency work with with um with folks navigating OCD. Thank you, Jeremy. um supported and affirmed. Thank you, Peter.

[01:03:43]Um and if folks on different platforms are like, "Why is she reading on different platforms?" We have folks, just so you know, on five different platforms that I'm seeing comments from.

[01:03:50]So, if you're not seeing some of the comments on your platform, that's why.

[01:03:54]Um we have folks across YouTube and Instagram and Facebook and Twitch and X.

[01:03:59]So, that's why. If you're not seeing some of the comments, you are not alone.

[01:04:08]Absolutely.

[01:04:12]All right. Thanks y'all. Thank you for everybody who responded to that, too.

[01:04:15]Well, thank you all so much for being here tonight and um I hope you all have a beautiful rest of the week and just want you to know that wherever you are, whatever you're experiencing on the journey, as Cash just said, you really are not alone. And um I remember what it felt like to feel like there was absolutely no hope and that there was no way out and there was no way I could step forward or that mine was different.

[01:04:39]Um and I guess I'll just close by saying wherever you are that you are so special and awesome and unique which is why your OCD latches on to different things. But I want to say your OCD is not your OCD is not special. And that might sound really harsh, but I like to remind you, you are such a special awesome person.

[01:04:58]But all the ways that your OCD says that it's special and that it's different or that you can't get better or that you know, all of those things, it is such a freaking liar. And I believe that every single person here is so worthy of and capable of reclaiming their life, no matter what OCD says. So hang on to those awesome things that make you so unique and special. chuck out the things that OCD says are special about it because it's not. Um, and know that there is so much hope. So, thankful for all of you and see y'all soon. And I'm going to try to figure out if I can push the right button to get