James White's Biggest Warning About Eastern Orthodoxy

[00:00:00]Yeah, we we will be dealing with that.

[00:00:02]I'm well aware that that that's fundamental to de Young and it's it seems to misunderstand one of the key things that I share with Muslims when it comes to the atonement.

[00:00:15]>> [music] [music] [music] >> What is a single question or point that you would recommend to Protestants that are studying Eastern Orthodoxy and they're being attracted to it. Is there any anything that you would caution them with immediately in that in that process?

[00:00:50]>> Well, you know, it's the same thing honestly if I'm talking to someone who's looking at Rome at this point. And you go, well, I thought you just said there's different. There is a difference, but in both situations, you are accepting an ultimate authority that fundamentally denies the sufficiency of scripture.

[00:01:14]And Eastern Orthodox tradition is just as extensive, maybe not as organized and easily defined as Roman Catholic tradition, but both will tell you, for example, um it's interesting. Uh Eastern Orthodox will tell you if you do not kiss the icon, you are anathema.

[00:01:38]Now, I've never had a Roman Catholic use that as an apologetic argument. They accept the same council.

[00:01:46]>> [snorts] >> It's just never been brought into Roman Catholic experience in the central way that it's been brought into Eastern Orthodox experience.

[00:01:57]So, the issue of authority, you know, you are accepting the Council of 787 as an infallible authority alongside scripture. And in fact, you have to interpret scripture in light of what that council says.

[00:02:15]Um are you even familiar with who was there? Are you familiar with what happened? Do you know about the Council of Hieria in 754? Do you know that that was they said the exact opposite things that they said in 787? Do you understand the Council of Frankfurt that took place afterwards that contradicted both the ones that came before?

[00:02:31]Do you Do you know anything about any of that kind of stuff? You're accepting historical realities on face value uh without even looking into them.

[00:02:42]You're just sort of accepting a a package deal.

[00:02:45]But of course, the the thing that I say to everybody who claims to be It sounds like the person you're talking about claims to be um an evangelical is you will not be able to claim the imputed righteousness of Christ.

[00:03:03]That's That's just And And if that's not a big deal to you, then obviously I wonder about where you've been all this time as as an evangelical.

[00:03:12]Uh if if that's not been the source of your peace, I can understand why you're looking elsewhere. I get it.

[00:03:19]But if you're a knowledgeable person and you understood these things, um you're you're ready to give that up for what exactly? Cuz especially as a new convert, it's be pretty hard to answer the question, what are you replacing that with? Uh what is What is the source of your peace now?

[00:03:42]Yeah Yeah, well, which most of them are not going to understand in the studying phase or even as the new convert phase.

[00:03:50]So, authority and and and uh imputed righteousness um but imputation forensic thing and that's why it's not really present there in in the consciousness of most of North Americans.

[00:04:06]>> I just want to thank our latest super [clears throat] chat that said white will be ready to address the Nestorian splitting of the Trinity argument against PSA. The Easterners like DeYoung always run. I was going to actually I was going to bring this up earlier but that's one of the things that I hear DeYoung and a lot of the Ortho Bros online have just saying PSA divides the Trinity. So, you're the perfect guy for them to ask that and be like, "Oh, contraire."

[00:04:34]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, well, that was the that was one of the very first apologetic arguments thrown at me by uh um Perry. I don't know what his last whatever his last name is. Um years and years ago. He used to work at CRI and then convert to Eastern Orthodoxy. Yeah, you're a Nestorian.

[00:04:53]You're a Nestorian. It's it's um it's so old. It goes back to these councils which didn't really understand uh the other side very well anyways, but um yeah, we we will be dealing with that.

[00:05:09]I'm well aware that that that's fundamental to DeYoung.

[00:05:12]And it's it seems to misunderstand one of the key things that I share with Muslims when it comes to the atonement and that is that what Christ does, he does voluntarily. This is this is the outworking of the eternal covenant of redemption within the Trinity itself. They And look, I understand a lot non-reformed evangelicals don't have a covenantal view of the atonement. So, I can't blame Father DeYoung or as Perry Robinson is his guy's name um or these other people.

[00:05:47]You might be able to make a a claim that if they don't have the eternal covenant of redemption in mind, if they don't have the perfect unity of the Father and the Son in the incarnation, in the union of an elect people with the Son, uh and all the rest of that stuff, if they don't have that, I can see how they could try to make a Nestorian argument stick.

[00:06:10]But, my hope is that Father DeYoung will do some research and realize, well, I need to respond to where my opponent's coming from uh as I will, you know, read his materials and respond to where he's coming from.

[00:06:27]And hence, deal with the Reformed understanding of that, and that's not an argument that is relevant.

[00:06:34]Uh we're not we're not Nestorians, uh and the applications that have been made to us over the centuries were were not overly accurate.

[00:06:46]>> Well, Dr. White, I just I just want to let everyone know I am pumped for this debate with you and Stephen DeYoung on penal substitutionary atonement. We haven't ironed out a thesis yet, but we're going to be working on that over the uh months to come, and we'll let people know.

[00:07:05]And so, mark it down on your calendars for March 12th in 2027. It will be on a Friday, and like I said, we have some other plans in the works for the the following day, Saturday. So, that's exciting, and I want to also remind people, go check out Dr. White's article that he recently has written, Thinking About Eastern Orthodoxy: A Primer for Evangelicals. I got to tell you about something that has genuinely improved my mornings, and that is Squiggly Joe's Coffee. Now, listen, I was a little skeptical at first, because when you hear of Reformed Christian coffee companies, you think, "Okay, is this going to be actual coffee or just Baptist Folgers with a Bible verse taped over it?" But no, this is a specialty grade, ethically sourced, [clears throat] freshly roasted coffee.

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