What Alcohol Does to Your Brain | Inside the Brain of a Recovering Alcoholic ft. Andrew Hales

[00:00:00]You mentioned holes in the brain on MRI.

[00:00:03]Does that mean it's just inactive or like there's literal holes?

[00:00:06]>> To be honest, you have it's both. Was there a moment where you said, "Oh, I'm I'm really kind of drinking too much."

[00:00:10]Would you describe yourself as an alcoholic then?

[00:00:14]>> Welcome to another edition of the Inside the Brain podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Hails. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:20]This episode's a little personal. It's Axel and me just talking about my alcoholism and the neuroscience behind it. Yeah, I haven't drank in about three years now and I got to say it's improved every aspect of my life. Finances, mental health, physical health, sleep, my relationships. Yeah, it's one of the best decisions I've ever made and I don't think I'll ever drink again. I really don't. Please pummel that like button. Thank you so much for being here. Subscribe. Inside the brain is available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

[00:00:52]And thank you. Here it is. I feel like I didn't have a problem with it until I was around 28, 29. I think the biggest reason that drove me to it was the the social aspect. It helps ease everything when you're socially. Why is alcohol more effective as a social lubricant than other drugs, do you think?

[00:01:10]>> In a way, it's it's literally down to the molecules. It's super simple. It is combining social elements with pure molecular ele kind of just triggers that alcohol does. So alcohol plays on the positive reinforcement like on three molecules. One is dopamine, the other one is GABA. What is somehow if you have too much GABA then you're kind of like feeling anxious and it blocks GABA and opioids. So it basically is a mixture of excitement and pleasure. That together with people, right, or also with girls or whoever you have a preference with means that you are more excited, you have less anxiety and you enjoy it more.

[00:01:48]And that is obviously a good version of yourself. You are pretty successful. You everybody laughs with you kind of just like you're just more likable. That means in the beginning it is it is literally only a lubricant like literally taking away the anxiety and then opening the two most important neurotransmitter to feel good.

[00:02:05]>> You used to party.

[00:02:07]>> I partied a lot but but like in a way pretty unusually split I have to say.

[00:02:12]You see I got like the pause reinforcement that actually alcohol is really fun. M so what I didn't have when I was young because I didn't like it in that phase I think I had the most crazy the the most crazy experiences also kind of just like drinking too to almost collapse but still I think it was it was huge fun. was huge fun and I think uh yeah I I think that that you see that was the positive priming and then I somehow because the my kids were born I dropped out of it and then when I had kind of just like my divorce I went partying again and then it became like really serious. So I in a way I just love to dance on alcohol so much I could do it like for hours. vodka kind of just like with caffeine is just like what what was keeping me going for days and I just I just loved it. And then there was this night where the blood sugar and type 1 diabetes hit very badly. So I was kind of just like remember dancing for at least I would say 7 8 hours and kind of just like that in co I actually felt I have it under control. I was kind of just like eating enough, manage this.

[00:03:22]And I remember kind of just like seeing myself just sitting in the corner and and realizing, oh [ __ ] I mean, I'm I'm I'm just losing it. I'm just because of the blood sugar >> and and and a DJ who was with me >> some I can just say thank you to some right now as like realized it and because he knew it he was kind of just racing to the bar and brought me like five Cokes like pure sugar basically and and in a way I think that that that kind of like brought me back uh on that and it kind of just like somehow gave a very clear warning because in that in that at that party I would have most probably that that would have been it when you are excited about a party I I didn't really need to drink to kind of just like be on the dance floor and feel myself right so so the excitement like the dopamine is kind of the first thing that actually just helps you to in a way just not go for the alcohol first challenge is is more a psychological one right because we have learned hey if I'm a little bit drunk I actually feel easy so I start drinking earlier and earlier and earlier instead of kind of just like using the indogenous dopamine to actually just see how far you can go.

[00:04:37]The fact that I was not drunk when I was between 16 and 19 in a way like all symptoms of an anxiety of being like not cool. So I remember myself really kind of leaving parties because I could not let go. Then you are the only one not drunk. You cannot understand the others.

[00:04:56]Then you feel like ali like an alien and then you leave then you're alone. It's like it's a it's almost like it's crazy, right? So So >> sucks. Yeah.

[00:05:04]>> Yeah. It's it's and and in a way 10 years later when kind of discovering the cocktail world and hard drink world. I'm just someone I'm just super funny when I'm drunk. I'm so so funny because I love to laugh. So that's kind of like my thing. So I'm just up to a certain point really fun to hang out with. And this because I didn't get it when I was young was of course like the triple reward was like hey this is how this is how the world works. I had really difficulties to talk to girls on the alcohol. No easy totally easy and actually also not not really a problem.

[00:05:37]>> The drinking age in Germany is like 14.

[00:05:39]I looked up that that's crazy right?

[00:05:42]>> So yeah I think that that's true. On the other hand, right now it's kind of just like almost nobody really drinks anymore.

[00:05:51]>> Germany's drinking age is low because the country relies on early drinking socialization rather than prohibition by allowing controlled access at 16 for beer and wine, 14 with parents. The goal is to demystify alcohol, teaching teenagers to understand their limits before reaching adulthood. So, I think that's an interesting philosophy.

[00:06:09]>> If we can just like turn it around, right? like the prohibition never works because because it just makes it more attractive. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So in in our clubs there's almost no alcohol anymore at all obviously because there are too many other drugs that are substituting in an effective way. Right.

[00:06:25]So this is and in a cheaper way. So that's the key thing. Nothing else is is so widely normalized. You see everyone you can I mean in every supermarket you have basically free access.

[00:06:38]um you're celebrating successes with champagne with the the first positive experience that you have. You are already dependent emotionally dependent on that moment, right? Because you you felt amazing. You were dancing better. You you at least believed you're dancing better, easier.

[00:06:55]Everything is easy. So, it's obvious that you want to repeat it because it's also well accepted. your cortisol and corticosteroid network is somehow reshaped. What that means down reggulates that whole system and that means when you're without alcohol you get anxious, right? You just feel uncomfortable all the time.

[00:07:17]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:17]>> And this is the magic in a negative sense, the magic shift from the positive liking of the situation to the real, oh, I I actually have to drink because I just feel not comfortable without it.

[00:07:31]For me, I only had this really once when I realized that I was start starting having drinks also like in the afternoon already.

[00:07:44]>> Yeah. I mean, have you been on benders where you just drink like for weeks on end every day?

[00:07:48]>> No. No. I I have to I have to say it's also like I feel so miserable, right?

[00:07:53]That just like it's like it's like it is just a toxin, right? And that's the second thing, right? On a physiological people should just think about it how you what is the substance that doctors clean their hands, right, when they when they do surgery? It's basically alcohol.

[00:08:08]So, in a way, alcohol kills everything.

[00:08:10]What is biological?

[00:08:11]>> The antiseptic aspect of it.

[00:08:13]>> Yeah. It always made me feel like it was cleaning out my insides when I would drink it, like Drano, you know, >> or something.

[00:08:22]>> Um, yeah, it's a neurotoxin. Why do you I I've read on Reddit and so many times people have said like it's more dangerous and destructive than even hard drugs like heroin and cocaine and stuff to the brain anyway. Is there any truth to that, do you think?

[00:08:36]>> Yeah, there's full truth to that. So I think the um when you see the brains in in functional MRI or even structural MRI from people drinking a lot of alcohol to people taking any other drug the holes in your brain from alcohol is just massive. I I can't can't just this is just what everybody have to be aware.

[00:08:55]The other thing is of course what is also in a way like my challenge as type 1 diabetic you have a metabolic shift that that is giving your liver and everything like a real hard time.

[00:09:06]>> Yeah. The biggest benefit I noticed was like about 3 months into it without drinking I this baseline anxiety kind of just vanished and it kind of repaired that aspect of my brain pretty much like the GABA or the homeostasis finally happened.

[00:09:22]>> What did you enjoy most on alcohol?

[00:09:25]>> It helped me open up, you know, cuz >> I'm a natural introvert around strangers and >> it just helps me loosen up and social anxiety. Yeah, it was really nice cuz Yeah. You're you're confident. It's like pharmacological makeup, you know.

[00:09:39]>> Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And the dopamine makes you confident, right? Just like you just en enjoy whatever you do much more, right? So, it's good. Was there a moment where you said, "Oh, I'm I'm really kind of drinking too much or was that kind of just like going silently and then you you someone had to had to had to mention it to you or was it like just you by yourself said that's too much?" Well, there had been warning signs like kind of like, "Andrew, you drink way too much and like you get effed up. You know, we're all just drinking." I was around like 28 years old and I was just living in my apartment by myself and nothing to do and I just drink more and more and it became like every other day at least and then with a few benders here and there like where it was every day all day and it you know at that point it's just to avoid the hangover and not feel anxious you know but a lot of it's just boredom and also just I have an addictive personality maybe it's kind of a mystery you know >> it's almost like everyone has the perfect drug. It's interesting, right?

[00:10:39]Because that feels very similar to the two of us, right? We we both were like introvert but wanted to be cool and that obviously in in a in a classical party setting girls just doesn't work, right? You you just you you feel you feel just insecure and insecure does not match to who you want to be. And then that's indeed like an super easy available access to more dopamine and even feeling kind of getting the pleasure getting the opioids from it as well. And you get away and and and the anxiety goes away. For a lot of people that's just that easy entry drug that later is then converting into stimulants that are only going on dopamine, right? Or kind of just like any other things that are kind of stimulating other other kind of areas that you miss. So for me, it's just the perfect fit for an unmet emotional need, right? The the unmet need is I want to be more easygoing, more fun. I just don't want to question myself or or have that voice that is questioning myself all the time. And and I think that that's the that's the that's the key thing. And then you see on your journey, you you describe exactly this initial phase where hey, this is just that's the solution. And then because the restructuring of the brain kind just like restructures all these circuits all of a sudden you are literally addicted and and the anxiety for a withdrawal actually changes even what that substance does for you from a positive influence. It becomes just a medication to avoid pain. In the earlier days before all the anastasis I mean alcohol was used for surgeries right you have no you have no pain under alcohol or very little in a way the pain of life feels much more enjoyable under alcohol right that's the beginning and then later it's like oh I don't want to have that pain again so you are you have almost no chance to to not run into that issue that you're getting from the enjoyment into a withdrawal situation >> I mean I've always considered it one step forward two steps back for your brain health, you know, like it's you feel great and then it kind of leaves you high and dry and you're kind of on this downward slope where you're let me So, tell me if I'm saying this right.

[00:12:56]Your neurotransmitters are being more like used more and so it uh makes them more less sensitive or something like that >> almost. It's like the the game goes between uh a substance and its receptor.

[00:13:12]So kind of just the the substance dopamine binds to uh its receptor called dopamine receptor and where the receptor is there is the effect like the boost the enjoyment the neuron is triggered and you feel something. Alcohol releases more dopamine that means all of a sudden there's more dopamine available and on the receiving end where the receptor is there's more signal. So the receiving cell that makes all these good emotions gets in a way positively stressed by all this more signal and the response of every biological system if there's over stimulation alcohol drives dopamine too much dopamine right over stimulation on the dopamine receptor the cell with the dopamine receptors downregulates reduces the dopamine receptors so next day you're just going out drinking again you drink the same amount that releases the same amount amount of dopamine. But dopamine is not the so-called critical step anymore. There are too few dopamine receptors. The thing what delivers the trigger has been reduced. So our response is, oh, apparently I'm not drinking enough, right? So I drink more.

[00:14:20]>> What somehow is just accelerating this system. There's more stimulant.

[00:14:25]So there's further down regulation down to a point that you can almost not get any response anymore. more in a partnership sense we can even spin this further. So now you say, "Oh, I'm not drinking tomorrow." So the cell with the dopamine receptors have no dopamine signal anymore. Zero. Right? Because there are no receptors on the surface.

[00:14:42]They have all been downregulated.

[00:14:45]That means anxiety, right? So the message is guys, I have no stimulant.

[00:14:49]I'm just getting scared.

[00:14:50]>> Why is alcohol more toxic than other drugs? If you see a water molecule and you see an alcohol molecule, alcohol has the potential to really penetrate all our lipid layers of our cells much easier and disturb them. Every cell is kind of surrounded by a little lipid kind of lining that is kind of like helping us to regulate transport.

[00:15:15]Something has to go from A to B and it has to cross that membrane, that lipid membrane. That's kind of why alcohol is uh something you you you kind of can wash your hand with, right? Because it dissolves the lipid layers of bacteria, right? So the same it does basically in our body at a certain at a certain level. Our body does something to alcohol what is not really helpful. It kind of like degrades it very quickly to a set aldahhide what is kind of just like a pure toxin that gives you the headache. So it kind of tries to get rid of the alcohol but actually what it produces is that thing that actually is even more toxic. The key question ultimately is why is this so difficult to kind of get rid of it right because there is this positive effect that you hang out with your friends alcohol becomes a fundamental ingredient that is necessary for that friendship for these experiences. You see this makes this so difficult because you if you if you are not drinking the first question is what's going on with you? Yeah, you're not funny today. What's going on? See, it's like so so so you have to make instead of having fun, you have to kind of address a a potential problem that shows that you're weak, what you actually wanted to avoid in the first place. And so, and this this is so the social element, I think, is the most challenging piece in the alcohol addiction. In fact, like there are not so many people on a daily base injecting heroin together. So like drinking is everywhere and that is the that's that's the real challenge.

[00:16:46]>> Why do you think that is like why was alcohol through humanity the last 2,000 years? Why did that like kind of become the central thing that people socialize around instead of other drugs? You know >> first of all I think there is this universality that alcohol addresses everyone's unmet need. So let me let me try to explain a little bit. Dopamine and opioids are just the enhancers of all emotions. So as an example, if you are if you have no friends, it feels better to hang out with people if you are motivated. Motivation comes from dopamine. For the person who misses friends, the dopamine from the alcohol helps you to experience friendship love.

[00:17:26]What is cannabonoids and opioids? If you miss feel self-confident enough to talk to someone, a woman, a guy, whatever, just in general, you need serotonin. And again dopamine right so the alcohol delivers you the dopamine what helps you then to experience that actually you have the self-esteem >> and you learn and you get like that particular thing now comes to the next one when you are kind of just like inhibited in kind just like showing sexual attractivity it is again dopamine plus testosterone so you get the dopamine from the alcohol and all of a sudden you feel more attractive in that context when you just to finish it up the last thing is sometimes people just have this trauma of not being hugged by their parents or kind of you name it.

[00:18:12]This nurturing love kind of being hugged is dopamine and oxytocin. So you get the dopamine from alcohol. So you see all of a sudden the point is alcohol gives you the basic repertoire of enough motivation that matches all your missing emotions and then it gives you opioids what makes you like whatever you experience. So it is a it's the universal drug for all needs out there because the brain picks exactly the ones that we have the most unmet need of. I think why it was early on was just successful for a lot of people. It's like just the mainstream drug because the most unmet need is of course what displays first when people get drunk. If you think about kind of the classical stereotypes that you have in mind, you have the person that all of a sudden starts hugging you. You have the people that at the end kind of they have too much start crying. These are the typical >> oxytocin right nurturing love missing people. Then you have the guys getting horny, touchy in a sexual sense.

[00:19:14]>> These are the guys where the testosterone is missing. Then you have the people that start talking all the time all the time. Total in self-esteem talking, dancing wildly. Serotonin.

[00:19:26]Finally, you have kind of like these people that laugh their butts off because that's the cannabonoids. They love to laugh with friends. So, so in a way, you can almost titrate in an evening the emotional needs in the community because the like like the iceberg, right? Like the first highest unmet need pops up first.

[00:19:46]>> So, you you haven't drank in a couple years. You don't get tempted to drink anymore. I I actually do, but it's again this classical state dependency. So if I go in the clubs I used to go, no it is literally impossible not to take that drink that had kind of just like made so many nights amazing nights. I think it's just impossible. So that's why if you are really heavily addicted, you you unfortunately hardly can you should not go there anymore because this the brain is so strong attaching the alcohol to that event. you have almost no chance to stay sober.

[00:20:22]>> Environment's huge. Um yeah, I just don't >> And the people too, right? I mean, the people too. You have no >> Yeah, you might have to sacrifice some buddies, you know, if you're really trying to kick alcohol.

[00:20:34]>> Um you mentioned holes in the brain on MRI. Does that mean it's just inactive or like there's literal holes?

[00:20:41]>> To be honest, you have it's both. So it's functionally you have quite some dysfunctionalities or kind of just like emptiness but that you see holes in a way that there's less cortical thickness less neuroplasticity literally less tissue.

[00:20:56]>> Wow.

[00:20:56]>> That is harboring functionality or memories. Most probably you also know people that have really done pushed this to the absolute limit and at the far end uh called Kzakov syndrome. People just forget everything just lit literally because where there is no substance there are no memories so they just forget and that's I think it just shows in the end stage you just in a way we just should not touch that stuff it's as simple as it is just should not touch it >> what helped you withstand the temptation to drink >> I think what was very helpful indeed for me is that kind of the hangovers will be getting really worse I mean really really worse and uh always as a repellent is that when you cannot enjoy doing sports the next day because you're so hang over. I I mean it's just just impossible.

[00:21:45]>> So what I do up to today is very simple.

[00:21:47]I I select the parties really well where I know who is there and I know it's like amazing fun. I check I check that I like the music because that's I music by itself is a dopamine deliverable system.

[00:22:00]Like it's amazing. I just don't try to radically not drink. But the idea that I go already drunk into the place that is not happening because I just I I just want to enjoy that moment and because it's it's just by itself it's enjoyable.

[00:22:16]>> Have you heard of BDNF BDNF brain derived neurotrophic factor most probably right? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:25]>> Yeah. Yeah. That's uh that's probably like the number one thing that can help you repair your brain, right?

[00:22:33]>> I mean BDNF is the magic substance in a way, right? The challenge is that whatever has been tested of giving BDNF got some weird mixed effects, right? So, so there was a very strong idea that BDNF literally should increase all your positive neurotransmitters naturally. So the perfect drug if you will, you just elevate all the positive things.

[00:22:55]>> Yeah. But somehow it just didn't work.

[00:22:58]Uh our muscles kind of send molecules to the brain that then drive BDNF when we're kind of just like physically active. So somehow just giving BDNF doesn't do the trick. It's not clear exactly why. Is it because it doesn't really travel properly to the areas where it should be? Sometimes in the brain that's the challenge, right? you have like a couple of billion cells and you have to go exactly at one spot and how you want to flood your bra your brain in BDNF doesn't work right >> so so but BDNF would be the the master clue basically what did h what did have to happen that you kind of just like stop drinking what was that was like total crash or was it or was it like literally hey okay I have to make a move move somewhere else >> it was just kind of a moment I was reading this book called Atomic Habits.

[00:23:48]Have you heard of that?

[00:23:50]>> Yeah.

[00:23:50]>> And I was really into that and just these little increments each day and 1% differences. So I finally, you know, for the millionth time, I'm like, "All right, not drinking again." I think the main motivation was to just be happier pretty much cuz I was depressed, you know, very depressed, very um unproductive, very fat. I was very bloated.

[00:24:14]>> Yeah.

[00:24:14]>> I have some I have some crazy pictures.

[00:24:16]cuz I was like 30 or 40 lbs heavier.

[00:24:19]Yeah. Just to pretty much improve everything else. I I read another book called Sober on a Drunk Planet which kind of helped which helped me learn about all the effects of alcohol that people don't really talk about.

[00:24:30]>> I mean still it is super tough, right? I mean to do it alone I think is >> another big driver was like just filming videos and editing. I would pair like beer with editing and that would make it so I just building bad habits that way, you know.

[00:24:45]um with my work life and just complicates things and my brain just feels so much more simple or I mean clear-headed.

[00:24:54]>> Would you describe yourself as an alcoholic then? I mean is it like can would you feel you fall you can fall back like in one day?

[00:25:05]>> Yeah. Uh I feel like if I had a drink now it would spiral for sure.

[00:25:11]>> Interesting.

[00:25:13]No, no, just like it's it's interesting because the point is when you change so many things by yourself, right, that you have a pretty interesting loop that you say, hey, I can just like I saw it with all my effort and all the energy from A to B >> and and the interesting thing is also, you know, the drinking alone kind of just is somehow sounds weird but beneficial, right? because it doesn't add the friends that you see the the friends kind of can stay not as a as an issue factor but actually as a resolution factor right >> did you ever have friends give you [ __ ] for not drinking >> oh a lot I mean I hope my I mean I I mean every weekend basically every I mean when when you are in any German team sport football handball hockey >> you are kind of just like an absolute outcast. You are basically just ordered.

[00:26:09]I mean what what you want. I mean what I have to admit in in Cologne as an example where I lived, you have to explicitly say that you don't want a beer. It's you're served and you're just served. It's like it's it's actually phenomenal. I have to admit in terms of this the social concept, right?

[00:26:25]>> Yeah.

[00:26:26]>> But but it's it's like you have to explicit say no and then you're like what are what is wrong with you? So >> it's like it's like a religion. And it's like an ide ideology almost, you know.

[00:26:38]>> Yeah.

[00:26:38]>> Like Yeah.

[00:26:41]>> Lifestyles.

[00:26:43]But yeah, it's changing that with the zoomers.

[00:26:46]>> Why do you think Yeah. Why do you think younger Zoomers and Why do you think they're not drinking as much? Just cuz they're smarter.

[00:26:54]>> I I I think yes. I have to admit I think yes.

[00:27:01]I uh I I also have to say I'm I'm not even sure because I I I observe the situation with my kids, right? So I I think they drink less. I think what is the big difference is that they like safe space, right? So they like to to be with their friends and that's kind of like my observation in in in safe spaces and then you you know you you don't have to drink to be more outspoken, right?

[00:27:28]Because you're already with your friends. So I think that's almost for me the resolution of this is they make it smarter to hang out in smaller group with their friends in the first place and then can just like have I mean it's always like there's always music because it's available right so you don't need a guy in like in my times who has like kind of records right that you have to put on a record play this is this is not happening right there's >> or even a DJ you don't not need because you can just take whatever Spotify Soundcloud about last DJ set and you have it. So in a way like a lot of things are kind of like opening the door of having an amazing safe space where you don't have to be cooler by drinking.

[00:28:10]>> Yeah. Just there's just less peer pressure and more education pretty much.

[00:28:15]>> I think it's a different peer pressure, right? The peer pressure is is massively on the social media, but I think there is not much to gain as a drinker on Insta or on Tik Tok, right? So therefore that that's like I think it's not so much promoted there.

[00:28:29]>> Yeah. You mentioned music. So that instigates dopamine but in a healthy way. So it's more sustainable and you can listen to music all day and it's totally fine for your brain.

[00:28:40]>> You know it's totally fine. The the most important thing is just you know that substance alcohol that comes in is a non-natural stimulant >> and that's why the dopamine response is artificially high. Ju just imagine without the alcohol you would not be excited because there is nothing exciting right >> the music turns you around if you like the music you're excited by the music so the dopamine in this natural way is released and that's kind of just like on and of course you get tired at one point in time right there's so much you can gain by the natural means that are available right laughing with friends when you're drunk is amazing right but laughing with friends is amazing already >> that's the key the key thing to to not turn it around and say, "I have to drink to then laugh with my friends." That That's the the key piece.

[00:29:27]>> Yeah. Do you agree with Germany's laws?

[00:29:30]I mean, I'm kind of asking random questions now, but >> Yeah. Yeah. No, no.

[00:29:34]>> Compared to America's, you know?

[00:29:35]>> Yeah.

[00:29:36]>> I I think yes. Be because the point pretty brutal prohibition kind of gives this whole thing such a huge attractivity factor and it it prohibits also the education. Do I think it is correct that under supervision with 14 or 16 for your brain that is crazy?

[00:29:56]>> I I'm actually just you see for me the the beauty is if you if if I just see the the consumption in in the younger people just shows me that intelligence finally wins. They are just literally making it smarter than I did it or my age did it. you you know your move from M LA from where where you're living now was that also driven to kind of just like get rid of that kind of state dependency in LA with the drinking or had this nothing to do with each other?

[00:30:26]>> Uh no I mean I kept drinking a lot a couple years after the fact uh moving um >> we moved to Nashville.

[00:30:36]>> Yeah.

[00:30:37]>> What is also a lot of bars is true.

[00:30:41]Definitely a lot of night life. Um >> yeah, >> just for cheaper living. Uh yeah, just California is just really expensive and taxes and um >> just more simple living and we just wanted a home base in a in a state that didn't have income tax and >> Yeah. makes sense.

[00:30:59]>> Yeah. Um >> no no because see I was just like in terms of the textbook, right? It would be proven the concept that it's so tricky to stay where you were heavily drinking with the same people because you have almost no chance. I mean, I don't know a single person >> that that actually just made it.

[00:31:21]>> Oh, sweet. Let us know.

[00:31:23]>> Let's see.

[00:31:24]>> Let us know what you think about all this. Share your experiences. Comment.

[00:31:28]Thank you. and we'll see you next