1 Arsenal Fan vs 11 Arsenal HATERS | Boxed In

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[00:00:00]Can you take your hat off, please?

[00:00:02]>> That's what the championship does to you. He's the same age as me.

[00:00:05]>> Oh, >> Arsenal now is a fashion brand. You have moreing kits than you have trophies over the last 20 years.

[00:00:11]>> Ask a question, man.

[00:00:12]>> I agree with them, man. I agree with them.

[00:00:14]>> I am Dutch, an Arsenal fan, and this is Midnight Boxing. Today, I'm going to make a statement and these fans are going to argue against it. I'm going to say you tell you not to go easy on me, but you're probably not. Which kind of goes into my whole point, my statement and is that Arsenal Football Club and our fan base is hated out of insecurity and jealousy.

[00:00:35]Sit down.

[00:00:36]>> Can we all scramble to get to the chair?

[00:00:37]Of >> course, >> like a coiled [ __ ] spring.

[00:00:42]>> Oh my lord.

[00:00:43]>> I'm Kim and a Man City fan.

[00:00:46]>> It's perfect, isn't it? So, my point stems from we as a football club, Arsenal, have always been known for being classy. We've always done everything with a touch of class. We've always been No, we're hang we've always been ahead of the curve. We modernized the English game. We're one of the breakaway clubs that formed the Premier League and there's always been a little bit of we've been seen as a snob.

[00:01:04]There's a bit of snobbery around us because we do things the proper way.

[00:01:07]There was no pro dollars that built our club. We didn't cheat. We've never cheated. We've never been corrupt. We've done everything by the book and we've done it with class. And all of our players, like a lot of our players have made the Premier League what it is, but for some reason you lot hate us. What?

[00:01:25]Look what we've done for you.

[00:01:26]>> What exactly?

[00:01:27]>> Look what we done. No, look what we've done for you. When we were making the Premier League, where were Man City and who were you for the blueprint?

[00:01:33]>> What you've done for us is you've given us Sam Nazri who didn't win the league with you, the league with us. You give us players. You give us your best players and you allow us to drop off our worst players and our little coaches to have you >> after they've won trophies at us. They just totle on to you and win. Absolutely [ __ ] off. The reason that Arsenal are dislike >> is got nothing to do with insecurity.

[00:01:54]What would I be insecure about? What can I be insecure about?

[00:01:57]>> What you've won isn't your own. You've not done it the fair. You earned it the right way. 115 chances makes it dude.

[00:02:04]Dude, >> it's not it's not authentic.

[00:02:05]>> Listen to me. Listen. I was born 5 minutes away from Main Road. I've grown up my whole life being a Man City fan.

[00:02:11]At one point, I was genuinely just so buzzing that we'd stayed in the Premier League. Then as I grow older, I see my team win every single trophy under the sun. I get to follow my team all over England, all over Europe winning trebles. Do you really think that I give a single shot how we have done it or whether we've done it with class or grace or decorum when that club has given me the greatest moments of my entire life? You're rattled though because every single time I mention 115, every City fan starts telling me about the times they went they were in League 2 and whatever else. I don't listen >> I don't care about the Charges. I care about my memories. Being a football fan is about memories.

[00:02:51]>> 15 to nine out of 10 city fans, they lose the plot.

[00:02:53]>> Football is about memories. That's a fact. We can all agree with that. It's about memories.

[00:02:57]>> And I have Arsenal Football Club and I've got great memories.

[00:02:59]>> No, of course you've got great memories.

[00:03:01]But you're arguing that the only reason that people hate you is because we're insecure about our own clubs. Yeah, there's nothing there's nothing for me to be insecure about. What could I be insecure about? I get to go to Istanbul and I get to sit there on a row with all of my family, all of my friends, my old barber who I've grown up with. You go to Arsenal nowadays, you ain't sitting with anyone you've ever seen before. Arsenal now has become Arsenal now is a fashion brand that is has a football club attached to it. You bring out new football kits every week. You have more [ __ ] kits than you have trophies over the last 20 years. Yes. And that's >> everyone has every every try to do that. Are we going to take the commercialism of football? Let's talk.

[00:03:39]Let's just let's take let's take stats off the table. Right. Let's just take human experience. Has anyone here watched a football game when or been in the pub near London when Arsenal have been playing? Probably. Yeah. Do any of them have anything to do with North London or Hibbury? No. that all these southerners from Surrey who come Roberts with a retro7s on the No, but I know I know it's so same but if you go down the Cali road or Angel Hol there is real Exactly. You can't tell me there is not real Arsenal fans.

[00:04:12]I've got a cous I've got a little nephew who goes to school in the area. Every single kid wears an Arsenal shirt. This is a myth. There is a real core fan base in and around the club and we look after that community as well. small fan base because well because and this is the other thing most casual football supporters if you don't really have a football club Arsenal's a cool club to follow that you can't deny that that's what you're talking about >> because most people statement moved away from football >> it's what brands do brands not m does brand brands not matter in football that lasts what the Arsenal brand it goes back to you know right to the 30s with cliff busting right through till now with Artto what we did with Wenger that is a brand that is going to be there forever what and this I'll be honest If you lose that court case, everything that's happened with Pep, everything that happened before that with Pelleigrini, what happened before that with Manchini is looked over and is a dark shadow that's casted over that.

[00:05:02]That will never happen with Arsenal from First of all. First of all, it ain't going to happen. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Okay. First of all, >> got we got a lawyer there.

[00:05:09]>> First of all, the 115 is not going to happen. Second of all, your argument >> We got We got I'll say it anywhere and everywhere. It ain't going to happen.

[00:05:17]Second of all, your argument is yeah, that people hate Arsenal only because they're insecure, which which completely negates how incredibly annoying your fans are for every single fan base.

[00:05:29]Everyone would agree with it though.

[00:05:31]Everybody would agree with it apart from Arsenal fans. Everyone would agree that you have a massive chip on your shoulder because you think you're bigger than you are, but you haven't backed it up over the last few decades. You haven't won anything. You've got incredibly gobby fans. the vast majority of your fans at the moment. All they care about is the appearance of being an Arsenal fan.

[00:05:49]There's no history there. There's no love there. There's no familial connection. You walk down to the Emirates now, everyone's in their exactly the same kit that Arsenal have just released.

[00:05:59]>> You know, and you know I'm right. And you know I'm right. And you know I'm right. The river exact because it's not it's not proper football. It's not proper football. Defines what proper football.

[00:06:08]>> It's not proper football. I'll tell you what proper football is. I'll tell you what football is your definition. I I'll tell you what I think proper football is. My team gets a load of [ __ ] for having empty seats, right? My team goes down to League 2 and we have an average attendance of 32,000. Your team, when I went to watch them, when I went to watch them in 2019 when you were fifth in the league, we beat you 3-0 and there was a third full stadium.

[00:06:32]Then then Arteta comes in. Then Arteta comes in. You start winning a couple games and everyone's North London forever. North London forever. You're from South London. Make it make sense.

[00:06:43]What's the authenticity? What's the classic 13? We move.

[00:06:48]You can't say forever if it's not forever.

[00:06:50]>> [ __ ] hell. It was I lasted quite long though, didn't I? To be fair. Oh, we got something else. Am I done?

[00:06:55]>> No, you're not [ __ ] done.

[00:06:57]>> Huh? Oh, well, for [ __ ] sake.

[00:07:00]>> Insecure.

[00:07:01]>> Yeah, he's insecure.

[00:07:04]>> Thank you. I'm Louis and I'm a Chelsea fan. Uh, John, I've never heard so much shite in my life, mate. Listen to a Win Stanley statement if you want to hear a shite.

[00:07:11]>> I Yeah, I listen to it every week. So I know what Shai looks like.

[00:07:14]>> Exactly.

[00:07:14]>> I know plenty of statements and I see a load of shite. Um we're not insecure because of X Y's every We're not insecure.

[00:07:21]>> You're still one. You'll never beat Arsenal in terms of the biggest club in London. You could win 15 Champions leagues and you'll never be the size of Arsenal football.

[00:07:29]>> That's fine. You don't have the feeling.

[00:07:30]It's all good. Don't worry about it. I was there in Baku as well cuz that was that was that's been your big that was your biggest night out like 22 years.

[00:07:36]battered by Olivia Giru who won a trophy with Chelsea. So we got what's got to do with you made a very good point actually. Let me just expand on that quickly. Players that leave Arsenal to win trophies and we give you our Yeah.

[00:07:47]Yeah. What's that do?

[00:07:48]>> Hang on. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why.

[00:07:50]>> So Ashley Cole sick of Arsenal. Pathetic little club.

[00:07:53]>> Invincible.

[00:07:54]>> In good for him that he left and went and uh won more.

[00:07:57]>> He loves our club more than yours.

[00:07:58]>> Don't think he does it on record.

[00:07:59]>> Do you? Well, where from?

[00:08:01]>> From the countless podcast he does at the moment.

[00:08:04]>> Ashley Cole. If we got Ashley for me, please. Thank you.

[00:08:09]>> Ashley Cole has made it pretty clear over the years that Chelsea is the club.

[00:08:14]>> Oh, [ __ ] >> Have that. Have that, >> mate. All right. Why?

[00:08:20]No, but you can't listen. No, you you can't call him Cashley Cole. You said he loved Arsenal so much. My point's just been reinforced. You know how he said that people don't like Arsenal fans because of insecurity? It's cuz they make ludicrous statements like that.

[00:08:32]They talk about Ashley Cole being invincible and being fantastic one minute ago and a minute later you're calling him Cashley Cole because he went to another club and did better. Listen, just because you lot are bitter, don't get lemon, John. Don't get lemon. It don't suit you. All right. At the end now as well. Jesus Christ.

[00:08:48]>> At the end of the day, right, players leave Arsenal because it wasn't a very well-run club. I know that because I know that because we're in the position you were in for the past 10 years, right? So, I'm coming I've seen both sides of the coin now. So you're saying right now we're in a better position.

[00:09:03]>> I say right now I say >> are we a well run club now?

[00:09:05]>> I say yeah you're a better round club now. Absolutely. You the table says so.

[00:09:08]That's fine. However without cheating by the by let's let's talk about that. Let's let's talk about that. You know you know how you said you know how you said Arsenal have never cheated and you can check this by the way as well.

[00:09:21]>> Wait don't take George Graham.

[00:09:23]>> I'm not talking about George Gra. I'm going further back. You said you should never have been relegated. Actually, Arsenal bought their way into the league in the 30s and it kicked Spurs out of the league. So, Arsenal saying all this sort of stuff cuz it's Spurs though and we all love but it's different. The Spurs were allowed to do allowed to do this. This is why people find Arsenal fans intolerable. It's the constant shifting of the goal post.

[00:09:44]>> Do you feel like Arsenal modernized English football or played a massive role in doing that? Is that not fair?

[00:09:49]Absolutely. So where that where where is that why is that forgotten about when we do when we frame Arsenal Football Club and where we've taken a league and the respect we have throughout the world where where you want to you want to come >> I want to come yeah go on >> my name's Nikki I'm a West Ham fan >> I don't hate you >> oh thank you mate >> that's your point done I don't hate you why don't I hate you because I'm not jealous of you go on and win whatever you want I'm I'm a West Ham fan I don't hate you Arsenal don't hate you whatsoever you try to force rivalries with the Declan Rice me. Ah, we took your best bet. Oh, yeah. Who gives a [ __ ] >> No, you did that.

[00:10:23]>> No, no, mate. But >> I'll tell you now, there was a I don't know if it was ICF or whatever he was called at the time. When we signed Deon Rice, it wounds you up because the whole narrative behind that from a lot of your family. See, this is the problem because people make narratives based on what a couple people say and that speaks for the whole fan base. So, I know with you, you probably don't care, but there was loud West Ham fans that were saying you're going to go there and win [ __ ] all, right? So far, you know, been right so far.

[00:10:47]Hang on, hang on. But now, hang on. But I'm not going to allow that person or them few fans to speak for you. But this is what I'm saying. If you go and speak to Arsenal fans, all jokes aside, yeah, I've given it the big end. We don't all think like that. Like we are proud of our football club and we have done things the right way.

[00:11:01]>> You're saying you're not proud of it, but you're saying everyone hates you. We we no one's there's nothing to hate.

[00:11:06]There's nothing to hate. You're saying you're jealous of most people nothing.

[00:11:10]We've won more than you in the last 5 years.

[00:11:12]>> Okay. So my my point is this is what this exactly that my point is if we at the moment if you if there was any other club why does everyone want city would rather city win the league? I think that's a fair >> I don't think that's jealousy. I think that's just >> nonsense from your fans I'm afraid and I think I feel as though it's weird that we want a team that has been clearly cheating right and that even in the in the >> Okay. But even still, even still, full of petrol.

[00:11:38]>> They messed it. Hold on. Hold on. They messed it last year. They absolutely messed it up. Right.

[00:11:43]>> You was meant to be the one that win the league. Who won the league? Not you.

[00:11:45]>> It weren't us. No, you're right.

[00:11:47]>> Why?

[00:11:47]>> We didn't.

[00:11:48]>> Why? Why can we eight people?

[00:11:49]>> Because they do things properly.

[00:11:50]>> They bottle it every year. We don't >> That's the thing. The bottling, mate.

[00:11:54]Every single season, 20 teams play in this league, right? You finish in second and this the whole thing about this like, oh, everything's about a trophy, everything else. to finish consistently in title races. It took Klopp a while to get there. It took Pep a while to win the Champions League. You've got No, but no one cares. That's what I'm saying.

[00:12:10]But anyone else, no one was saying this about Liverpool when they were kept coming close when they kept coming close getting close to titles and not making it.

[00:12:15]>> But you said it about Tottenham every year.

[00:12:17]>> Yeah, but it's Tottenham though. No one likes Tottenham.

[00:12:20]>> So you hate Tottenham for what reason?

[00:12:22]>> Because they're Tottenham. That's a that's an age old.

[00:12:27]>> My name is Dev and I'm a United fan. And the thing is what we've all kind of expressed here along the table is well first of all social media existed in a bit of an echo chamber. So I'm going to say you know when we were top like everyone wanted us to lose and that was a fact of course it was cuz sir Alex mind games and the playing with the ref and even I'll admit there was intimidation at Old Trafford. I'll admit that these things went in our favor because those things are true and in the echo chamber I could have said everyone hated us and when Liverpool were winning it I couldn't stand them and I wanted them to lose more than anything. It's the thing with you guys is that I actually have a lot of respect for Arsenal football club as an institution as I hope you would have respect for Manchester United as a football club.

[00:13:02]You might not as a rivalry just respect footballing respect like I have respect for Real Madrid or a different team might have let you down recently.

[00:13:09]>> Yeah, but the thing is with the way that you've acted, it isn't so much that I now have an antipathy for Arsenal Football Club and what you've stood for and things like that. It's this delusion of grandeur that somehow you are being owed certain aspects of success despite not actually being able to back that up because we're not the ones saying no one expects Arsenal to win the league. you guys expect Arsenal to win the league and then when you don't you you get >> what's reasonable here like it's a very unique position we're in right when you go for the title it's good if this season if we do finish second it be it'll be unprecedented right what would a fan base which has won 13 league titles and have been desperately close getting bantered by everyone else how would you act that's what as United fans if you're in our position bear in mind you've got not got close to a league now 13 years now we just got to a champ semi-final you ain't done one of those since for 15 years if you get this close at this many times and you're used to.

[00:13:57]This is in our blood. It's in our DNA.

[00:13:58]We've won 13 league titles. Would you not be desperate? And how would that manifest and how would that present itself to as a normal human being? I understand with that, but at the same time people I completely get what you're saying and I do largely agree that if other fans were in your circumstance, they're not going to be looking back and saying, "Guys, like let's all calm down.

[00:14:18]There will be the excitement that will spill over and it will come into whatever it is." But the excitement of not actually winning anything but getting so close and bottling it at those final hurdles has reached to a point where the excitement has bubbled over that you've kind of the thing that you said earlier at the beginning of your statement was what Arsenal have been famous for what they've done and how they've built themselves. I don't think we've forgotten that. I think you've forgotten that. I think that certain Arsenal fans and certain people in Arsenal when I'm hearing your striker talking about dry pitches, when I'm hearing about your reliance on set pieces, when I see you spend this money and you want set pieces and you want a 16-year-old to bail, you're out of trouble. when I'm seeing all of that and I actually know like I know my football history. I know what Arsenal have done from the 30s. I know what they've done from the from the 80s and the orchestra up with Graham, but I know with Wenger and I know with David Dean, I understand what Arsenal have done as a football club, but you have forgotten that because when you you were one of the first to get to this new stadium and then once you got there, it another things kind of came into your reckoning and then success kind of fell by the wayside because finances and things, you then got to a point, okay, steady foundations, you build it, you got there, you got so close, so close, so close. But instead of being the ones to say, okay, no, we got to go get it now.

[00:15:21]It's going to be our time. It's going to be this. I have half of your fans.

[00:15:23]Again, social media is an echo chamber.

[00:15:25]Half that will say we're not going to win it because you almost want to play it against. And then there's another half that will say you have to win it and you two are playing against each other and you're confusing the narrative. It's not us. Arsenal fans are the ones confusing everything. We're the ones stuck by and are just pointing out the facts that you haven't won anything yet, that you might never win anything.

[00:15:42]>> I kind of hear you though. You made a good point.

[00:15:44]>> But that's what I'm saying again. Like I It's awkward cuz I'm not one of those fans. I'll laugh at you, of course, just as much as you would laugh at all of us.

[00:15:51]But it's not that I'm doing it because it's Arsenal. I'm doing it because the fans have reached a zenith point where you've it's almost as if you've some are acting like you've won things, but you haven't done that. We've been more successful in terms of titles than winning, but this is our banter period.

[00:16:04]And I'll admit that we've been disgraceful. We were 15th last season. I have no right to talk about that.

[00:16:09]>> There's a fans in our position even last night. You qualify for a Champions League semi-final, which isn't an easy thing. And there's ch there's teams that will never even play in the Champions League bantering us. And that's hard to it's hard to when they're hard to >> Can I ask you can I ask you a question?

[00:16:23]When at the beginning again echo Chambers is a it's a bit of a phrase I keep throwing about but at the beginning of the season when like you signed Yarez and you you see fans doing this and they're running all this >> excited for a new big >> of course but I was there at the first game like when he played against us and he hasn't he hasn't caught fire the way that you would have thought and I don't think he will for reasons that we've we've spoken about. But but but the thing is with this is what that is a a microcosm of what is is all we can see because the loudness is going to come from when you're in a title race and all the eyes are on you. I will know this cuz we've been in many and growing up we were in that. Everyone wanted us to fall off. So when we did screw up people would come at us and when we were saying stupid things so Alex has said stupid he said Chris Smalling could have been killed or Phil Jones could have been killed when a ball hit his head. Stupid things happen and I remember how those things happen. But we had the presence of mind either as a fan base or a club to accept that and be like, "No, we're Man United. Ignore that now. No more noise. Let's focus on it." You add more your fans in your club. You add it on to it. So it's like you're not helping yourself in the argument and kind of making. So you were talking when you when you were in title racing, there was no X. There was no Facebook. There was no Tik Tok. Do you think you would have dealt with it any differently to us? And this we don't know. This is what I'm saying.

[00:17:35]>> I'll be I'll be honest. I I'm not exactly like there's certain parts of the Man United fan base I'm definitely not proud of and that's what and I think if we were with the greatest of respect we're a bigger club than Arsenal. We are so when so if we were that success and we then bring in social media yes absolutely we would have been unbearable if we were the same. I totally understand that doesn't negate the fact that you are unbearable and the reason we don't want you to win isn't because of the fact that you're so good and we're insecure. It's the fact you're insecure and you're telling us that we are.

[00:18:03]>> But can I say one thing for the Yeah.

[00:18:05]Well, fair play. When we win, that all changes.

[00:18:08]>> So, when we do win, it all change. So, what I'm saying is you probably It makes sense if you are annoyed by us, you should be cheering us on to win the title cuz once we win, that's gone.

[00:18:18]>> It get so much now. Get off.

[00:18:23]>> Jesus Christ.

[00:18:24]>> Hi, I'm Kimqatari, a Man City fan. My statement is John Stones is the greatest ever center back in Premier LEAGUE HISTORY.

[00:18:36]KIM, >> PREMIER, >> do this for me.

[00:18:39]>> Just do this.

[00:18:41]>> I just wanted to see if you got eyes.

[00:18:42]I'm leaving.

[00:18:45]>> So, first of all, make your case because I don't think it's fair to make mine and then yours. You've said the statement, so make your case.

[00:18:50]>> I think there are lots of different ways in which you can argue about a player's greatness. Yeah.

[00:18:55]>> I think trophies is one of them.

[00:18:56]>> 100%.

[00:18:57]>> John Stones has six Premier League titles. He's won the treble, two FA Cups. I think individual performances and moments is one. He was man of the match at center mid in a Champions League final. There's almost nothing better than that for a center back to be able to do. I think legacy is another one. I think it's agreed with certain people offset as well that J Stones has basically completely transformed what it means to be a center back, >> right?

[00:19:22]>> And I think it is another one. And I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching any defender left back, right back, center back as much as I've enjoyed Jon Stones. And I think all of those four added up. I think there are other players out there like John Terry for example who will have the leadership, he'll have the trophies, but I don't think he's got the legacy. And I don't think he's got the same transformative effect on football. Rio Ferdinand I think probably passes the eye test.

[00:19:49]Probably maybe passes the transformation test, but I don't think he was as good as John Stones.

[00:19:53]>> Well, this is the thing. I when it comes to the actual figures like it is a difficult argument to make because we're going to be splitting hairs a lot of it when it comes to the figures of it. I think for me the one important factor that we might have missed out a bit is context. So it's not not specifically with John Stones to discredit him let's say. I think I my argument will always be Rio Ferdinand and I'll also throw in John Terry and I'll throw in a few other players because context for me is everything when it comes to this and when Rio Ferdinand came into the Manchester United team that wasn't a Manchester United team that was geared for success at that time. We were off the treble and we'd gone through a point where we went through international transfers. We were buying we sold Yapstan. We were trying to get we got my favorite player Ru Vanistro, but we also had Diego Forland, Sebastian Varon. We we weren't set up for that. We had to kind of go back to basics and get things right again. And it was Rio Ferdinand who was one of the main solidifiers in the spine of Manchester United that took us from one era to the next. And what and I think what is key with him is you mentioned also some of the the aesthetics and all that. Really, we're going to come down to personal preference. You'll always prefer Jon Stones. I'll always prefer Rio Ferdinand, but I will also say aerial ability. I'll say leadership. I'll say making other players around him better.

[00:20:58]I'll say coaxing the best out of his fullbacks. I think Rio Ferdinand takes that in.

[00:21:01]>> Can I just Can I just respond to what you just said though, which is about changing of an era. First of all, John Stones was Pep Guardiola's first signing. The defenders that we had the season before and the defenders that we had alongside John Stones at the beginning, we had Bacher Saga and Alexander Kolarov at center back.

[00:21:15]>> We had a 35-year-old Lauren Sylvester and Gary Neville playing our greatest ever period. we would all agree has been under Pep Guardiola.

[00:21:23]>> John Stones was his first signing. He wanted him more than anyone else because he knew he knew that J Stones could be a lynch pin in that side. Another massive argument which I always make when I talk about J Stones is how much better he makes everyone else look around him.

[00:21:38]Harry Maguire was in the World Cup team of the year, the world the the team of the World Cup or whatever because he was next to Jon Stones. Ruben Diaz, a lot of City fans won't like this, has been stealing individual awards because he's been next to J Stones. Every single player who plays next to J Stones is way, way better than they are. That's why Harry Maguire is a thousand times better for England than he is for Man United. That is a fact.

[00:22:02]>> Well, it's not just that, though, is it?

[00:22:03]Because I mean, there's a lot of context with Magguire, but that's that's different because his time at United is completely different to perception in his time at England. I think when I'm talking about the the Rio Fernando instance, you're right in terms of like what he's done at City and how he's come through that era, but also Serrano and Cheeky like they ended up getting like De Bruyne as like a welcoming present for him. So, it's not as if it was a tough gig to come in at Man City and like he's done brilliantly. I'm not discrediting what he's done, but at the same time, the era that Rio Ferdinand came into as a young as a relatively young player, just Stones Stones was young as well at the time, but I think to come in and come into Manchester United with the legacy of the fact we'd won the treble three years earlier and with the legacy of dominating the 90s of only not winning it in two seasons, otherwise we would have five, seven in a row. and doing all of that and then coming in and being that person who was the most expensive defender when he went the first time to lease and the most expensive to come from Leed to United to come off the back of having all those eyes on you from Leed to United where everyone wanted him to fail where it wasn't really like then newspapers back at the time I know social media is different now the newspapers having even back then having like a young black defender being the most successful one the eyes were on him from the get-go so to come through that and to come through the things with the drug test which are wholly unfair and I think a lot of people would admit that now because have been hit as badly as then, but to come through that and still become the lynch pin of that team, to become the captain.

[00:23:19]And you mentioned the team he came into, you know, Lauren Blan was 35 years old when he came in. Henningberg was on the way out. Yapstam had to leave. We were comparing him to Yapstam and Ronny Johnson and to Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister. He had Gary Neville next to him. Like not as a right back, as a right center back. Like this was the era he came.

[00:23:35]>> So you put Ferdinand on number one?

[00:23:36]>> I put five.

[00:23:36]>> In your opinion, where would John Stones be? Just out of interest.

[00:23:39]>> I think he's top five >> to be honest. I need to think about it a bit more. But my >> I'd probably say he's third, second or third.

[00:23:47]>> Right. And this is the thing. No.

[00:23:49]Exactly.

[00:23:50]>> Exactly. No. No. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:23:53]Exactly. And this is the thing. This is the thing. When I first when I first first made this statement last week, people were screaming at me. I'm looking at a guy here who just agrees with me.

[00:24:01]And you're saying it's between one or two.

[00:24:03]>> I think more third Terry. Ferdinand. No, Ferdinand. Terry in it. The flash now get off.

[00:24:10]>> All right, Brendan Chelsea fan. First thing I want to say is your trim is looking immaculate.

[00:24:14]>> Thank you very sharp. It's very, very sharp. So, >> I think you have that feeling about John Stones because you're a Man City fan and with the success you've had in recent years, right? Similar kind of similar to Chelsea. You have seen someone like J Stones actually create such a legacy, you haven't seen many others do the same as he has in his position. But I don't even think he's the best England defender in the Premier League quite frankly. We have John Terry and for his antics. Cool.

[00:24:48]I know. Anyways, fantastic player.

[00:24:51]Fantastic player. Leader, you know, he's an absolute legend, right? And he's created such a legacy for Chelsea. He's comes from the side that conceded 15 goals in an entire Premier League season, right?

[00:25:01]>> He only conceded 13 as well, guys.

[00:25:03]>> He himself only conceded 13.

[00:25:04]>> Definitely.

[00:25:05]>> Right. John Terry for me is at least top three. John Stones I would maybe put him in top 10 and that's being generous.

[00:25:13]That's being that's being generous. But I understand that John Stoners has created such a legacy for Manchester City because he has he's come from the trouble winning side. He's won multiple >> He's also created a legacy for football.

[00:25:25]He's taught center backs who are grown up now. You go down to Hatne Marshes now and you will see way more center backs playing it out from the back. playing out trying to replicate the style of football that he brought into the Premier League than you were >> than you were with Jon Stones.

[00:25:40]>> Come on, man. Rio Ferd was doing that with us with West.

[00:25:43]>> That's number one. You can you can make that statement that John, you know, people play at the back because of John Stones. Fine. Cool.

[00:25:48]>> But then I disagree because that's been happening for many years before.

[00:25:51]>> Not to that level.

[00:25:52]>> Not to that level. Fine. But it's been happening regardless, right? And if someone told me this is this is coming from let's say a casual fan, right?

[00:25:59]Well, you know what type of defenders play from the back, right? Join names might come up, but many others will come up as well.

[00:26:04]>> The re the Rio Ferdinand argument is one which I will probably consider and is something which I would say there is a one two. The John Terry argument is something which I'm just not willing to consider. John Terry is an unbelievable defender. His aerial ability blocking tackles absolutely exceptional. But to be a top top defender when John Terry played, you have to have a completely different set of skills to be a top top defender when Jon Stones plays. To be a top defender in a Jose Mourinho team means just putting your body on your line, being being positionally being positionally astute, being good in the air. To be to be to be to be a good defender in in a Pep Guardiola team means going and playing in midfield in the Champions League final and dribbling past more players ever in a Champions League final apart from Lionel Messi. No other defender can do that. No other defender can do that.

[00:26:53]>> Brendan Brendon, do you want me to help you out here?

[00:26:58]Let's let's talk about John Stones a bit then. Um so he's done a lot favorite topic. How often has he been able to do it because he's got quite significant injury?

[00:27:05]>> 178 Premier League goals for Manchester City games.

[00:27:08]>> 178 games across how long?

[00:27:11]>> Across a nine year period >> across nine years.

[00:27:13]>> Okay. But overall that's about how can someone do math for me?

[00:27:17]>> About 50% about 23 about 23 games.

[00:27:20]>> 23 games season. John Terry was 36 I believe in the 145 15 season played every single game of the season and by the way did that in this whole period where you talk about players you know only had to do certain things John Terry was able to use both his feet have you seen that man ping a pass is unbelievable that Chelsea team which you're talking about with Mourinho you give it massive discredit yes it was defensively resolute but my god could they entertain when they wanted to not only that but John is part of a team with kangelotti which until in fairness Manchester City took the record, scored the most goals in a Premier League season and he was a massive part of that as well as well as being the highest scoring defender of the Prem in the Premier League's history.

[00:28:01]>> Top defender.

[00:28:02]>> So overall, I appreciate what you're saying about John Stones, but he doesn't even touch the sides when it comes to Rio Ferdinand, John Terry.

[00:28:11]Yap Stam's a great shout as well.

[00:28:14]There's some amazing defenders. But also all I'm saying that was that was him who said it in fairness.

[00:28:22]>> But overall there are defenders which you're giving I think you're giving massive discredit.

[00:28:25]>> I'm not discrediting anyone but you're saying >> I'm just saying how good John Stones is.

[00:28:28]I'm not saying real Ferdinand [ __ ] I'm not saying Terry [ __ ] I just think John Stones has basically made basically as a kid as as a child when he was a youngster he made basically two high-profile mistakes. One for Ever and one for England. And because it was flamboyant football and because our press is so [ __ ] archaic, they latched on to it and for years and years and years just denigrated him no matter what his performance level was. So the average fan who thinks about J Stones thinks about, oh, we made a few mistakes there. Always a bit flamboyant. Oh, he's a bit weak. Watch his games. Watch his game against Liverpool in the 2018 2019 season where that game decided he won the league and he's sprinting back and he's clear one off the goal line. That's a Premier League that he's single-handedly won for the center we haven't even spoken about yet, which reinforces the point about what you're saying, right? We could talk about John Terry. We can talk about Rio Ferdinand.

[00:29:15]We've not mentioned Ledley King yet. Do you know we've not mentioned Ledley King? Because he was always injured.

[00:29:19]People would appreciate what he was as a center back. He was one of the best there ever was. He was spectacular, but people don't put him into a conversation because Yeah. But also because he was always injured.

[00:29:29]>> Yeah. And John isn't always injured.

[00:29:31]>> He's injured the vast majority of the time. I mean statistically it's not the vast majority of the time >> statistically in ter in terms of someone you're saying going to be up there if you're someone if if you're if you're saying right that somebody is so important as the best defender in Premier League history you availability fitness fitness is the barometer is it >> for for me it's a big part of it it's not the only barometer but it's a massive part of it if you cannot stay fit you can't even have >> a load of [ __ ] right >> so so so if Messi played 20 games a season but Lee Katamal plays them all No least you're twisting you're twisting what I'm saying what I'm saying that that availability is the best ability is one of the best it's not it's not it's not >> it's a massive part of it >> it's a big it's a big part of it it's a big part it's a big it's a big part of it >> it's a massive part of it >> it's a big part in catal >> I'm just not rattled you you can talk you can talk about injuries all you want, but in all of the big games and all of the big moments throughout Pep Guardiola's history at Manchester City, Jon Stones has been a part of them. That is a fact. So, yes, he might spend November to February injured, but for those running where we win, it's quite an extensive period.

[00:30:46]>> Yeah. Can I finish my sentence or you just going to jump down my throat?

[00:30:48]>> No, go for it.

[00:30:49]>> From February to May when we win the league, John Stones is fit. That's all that matters. This season is is an anomaly. And I'm not talking about this season. He's 31 years old. Fine.

[00:30:57]>> He's 31 and he's getting injured that regularly throughout his career. You've just gone, "Oh, he's not available for this extended period. Third of a season."

[00:31:04]>> So, wait, wait, so hold on. So, hold on.

[00:31:05]The only thing that you've got to use is the fact that he's injuryprone.

[00:31:09]>> What's a massive >> talk about his ability? Talk about his ability. He's great. He's fantastic.

[00:31:13]He's fantastic. But if you're not available the vast majority of the time or for your case, sorry, a third of a season, you can't be considered the greatest center back in Premier League history when there are players that have been pivotal not just in big games, in every single game. I think if you played almost 200 games, you've got a decent stake to the claim >> in 10 years.

[00:31:34]>> I think it doesn't matter how long you played. If we're talking about Premier League, I think 200 games is a decent amount.

[00:31:39]>> 20 games a season. It's It's not.

[00:31:41]>> So that's So the only barometer is the fact that he's injured.

[00:31:43]>> It's a massive part.

[00:31:45]>> He's Come on.

[00:31:46]>> My name is clear to Newcastle fan.

[00:31:48]You're lucky I'm not going to bring any Newcastle defenders to the table cuz then you would have been cooked. But I'm going to say this. Doesn't Vincent company get into this conversation? Is he alive? Like Vincent Company's by far your best defender of all time. Of all time.

[00:32:01]>> And that and that and that is why I know that I've got a good point because that is just nostalgia talking. Vincent company nostalgia Vincent company you owe him everything. Let me finish recency by Vincent company was insanely injuryprone. You want to forget it now because he's more injured opponent John more injuries opponent John >> it's exactly the same >> exactly the same not him now cuz Vincent company put some respect on his name the guy you owe him everything you owe him your life you owe him your life John Stones the only thing the only thing that you know John Stones about is that viral video with Raheem Stone talking about the real GENERAL that's the only thing he's known for he's not known for anything he's known I want to be a jama. That's not it. Check that.

[00:32:48]>> You don't need you don't need to tell me to respect Vinc.

[00:32:50]>> I know more about Man City defenders than you. And you're a manun. Shame on you.

[00:32:56]>> VR is a company was significantly more injuryprone than Stones.

[00:33:00]>> Offer I ain't done yet. Virgil, >> I'm Gareth. I'm a QPR fan. My statement is the championship as a product is better for fans than the Premier League.

[00:33:14]What? Lou, >> Louis B Dogs.

[00:33:17]>> I'm Louie and I'm a Chelsea fan. Um, now Gareth, I've known you for quite a long time. So, before we get started, just so I can reinforce point, can you take your hat off, please?

[00:33:27]>> That's what the championship does to you. He's the same age as me.

[00:33:31]>> That is That is >> hideous.

[00:33:35]>> I mean, going after my physical appearance because you haven't got any points to argue the actual point, I think.

[00:33:40]>> No, I do. I do. I do. I just I just I just need to get off my chest. It's been a while. Um so irrespective if we look at the championship as a product for fans. Can you expand on why you believe that?

[00:33:51]>> Yeah, so I would say the first point is accessibility. Being able to go and watch your team and also knowing that it's going to be on Sky, you're not paying subscriptions for every other channel as well. You're guaranteed a certain amount of games on the telly.

[00:34:06]>> Uh and you can just kind of feel like you belong to the club a bit more. you get fan forums where you are listened to. Uh I feel like you're never more than kind of a few emails away from the club. You are valued >> and yeah, I mean accessibility is a massive thing for a football fan. I feel like in the Prem certainly in recent years the way it's going corporate wise, how hard is it, you know, if you're an Arsenal fan to go and watch a game alone >> that is the product is going to watch the football. It's not, you know, what surrounds it. Do you not feel as though with the product it also comes down to the atmosphere and other things like that? So for example, I've been to KPR quite a few times. I can get tickets on a day very easily. There's a lot of empty seats whereas you go to Premier League games, you're always going to have some sense of atmosphere. Whether that be good or bad, you're always going to have a pretty full stadium. I unfortunately can't the case of my club because my owners are awful. But there are other clubs within the Premier League who are very wellrun. Fans are looked after still. I think in terms of just West London as an example, I think Brenford fans are looked after quite well in terms of their community outreach as well in terms of the fan forums and stuff as well. You talked about always being on Sky. I mean, what the Premier League was founded on was founded on availability and people being able to watch on Sky on top of that as well with the EFL said certain amount of games and there's not extras. Don't the EFL have products where I know at least they did where you had to pay an extra10 to watch games that could be behind a pay on the site? Uh, I think that was the case, but Sky Red Button now you can watch any EFL game the same time as one's being broadcast. So any 12:30 kickoff you're going to be able to watch.

[00:35:39]>> Okay. Interesting. Is it just the 12:30?

[00:35:41]What about the is there any the later games?

[00:35:42]>> Well, the any game that's on telly, anything that isn't a 3:00 blackout?

[00:35:45]Yeah.

[00:35:46]>> Any any other reasons why you feel that might be the case as to why the NFL's a better product for fans in the Premier League?

[00:35:51]>> Yeah, competitiveness for a start as well. I think any team can beat any team which is always nice. you know, as a very much a mid-table fan, especially for the last decade, I relish the fact I can turn up and watch us get battered or I can watch us batter someone. Um, I mean, this year, for example, third game in, we lose 7-1 to Coov away. Uh, coming to our place, you'd never have thought that we were going to nick three points off of them. Also, just the kind of scale of the performance you can watch.

[00:36:18]I think you know if you were going to watch Man City Arsenal this year every week you kind of know what performance you're going to get what you're expecting from the players the championship everyone can have a moment you know a winger that you could watch week in week out and tear your hair out is a hero the next minute I think in the Prem you know you get breakthrough stars that happens but the championship you just never know what's around the corner it's mania and that's entertainment and that's what fans want at the end of the day I think you know creative flare is a lot more allowable in the Championship.

[00:36:51]You watch players like Greish at City just kind of that flame went out a bit, but you're not going to see that so much in the Championship because they know that football's about individual performances as much as the team.

[00:37:03]>> But could you not argue in terms of the Premier League product? Oh, by the way, these are all valid points. I think the Championship is an excellent division, but do you not feel that with the Premier League, you said that anyone can beat anybody? That is the Premier League. and the fact there's I mean every team has a player of huge quality.

[00:37:18]If you compare that to 20 years ago they'd be pulled into four or five teams whereas now every single side probably has one player that everyone would sign.

[00:37:26]You know there's there's there's quality throughout the division and teams could beat anyone at any day. I mean look at Spurs right now. Spurs are at the bottom of the table really fighting for their lives and they I think we're all happy about that. uh you know at the end of the day that they're in a position which no one expected because of the certain players they have but because they've been bettered by Sunderland who came up from the championship and have had an amazing season and are now fighting for Europe. Yeah. You know could you could you not argue that that the quality is there and that the money I mean talk to me and then I'll I'll go off because I'm sure the lads got other things to say.

[00:37:57]Talk to me about the trickle down. So surely the quality in the Championship is also thanks to a certain extent the Premier League where parachute payments have allowed teams to pay more money for players which maybe they couldn't have afforded previously.

[00:38:12]>> Yeah. Yeah, I do get that. Um what I do think the kind of side effect of that is that you now have six or seven teams that you know yo-yo between the Prem and the Championship and no one enjoys watching.

[00:38:25]I don't know anyone this this year that sat down and gone, "Yeah, I'll watch Burnley." Cuz you know what? They're going down again next year. And when they come down, nobody sits down and think, "Yeah, I'll watch Burnley."

[00:38:35]Because you know they're going up. It kind of the trickle down payments allow teams to be mediocre. I don't think they let them set the world alite. And what we love in the Championship is homegrown players, players coming throughmies, you know, the lone players that the Prem players are sending down. And you're seeing that rawness be unearthed. M um you know Hayden Hagy this year is unbelievable. You you would never see that in the Prem because he wasn't going to get minutes. It's nice to have these the opportunity as a when he was at QPR, you know, you watch him burst through and also you know look at Leicester this year the trickle down doesn't always work. It's true.

[00:39:11]>> Um it's actually probably damaged them more than anything with a points deduction. You know, Luton, Huddersfield, it's not helped them in recent years. So yeah, I mean teams like Southampton, I think they're set up for sustainability, but that's because of years past. I don't think if Sunderland were to go down immediately, they'd be harmed by it because they've had to spend the money to stay up in the Prem.

[00:39:33]So >> are you happy about them changing the playoff structure?

[00:39:36]>> Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

[00:39:37]>> Sorry, but >> raise your cards. Everyone raise cards.

[00:39:40]Raise cards.

[00:39:41]>> Right, Ben, now it's your turn. There you go.

[00:39:43]>> I'm not arguing against it. I agree with him.

[00:39:45]>> I'm not I'm good. I'm good. ASKED THE QUESTION.

[00:39:49]>> I I AGREE with it, man. I agree with this.

[00:39:51]>> There was a point you made which has got to be brought up.

[00:39:54]>> Yeah.

[00:39:54]>> If the championship is a better product for fans, why do fans not go to the championship games?

[00:40:00]>> Yeah. So, I mean, I think a large part of that like the trickle down is, you know, if you've come down, you've sat and you've suffered through a season that you don't necessarily want to sit through, maybe you've become a bit against going to the club. I mean, you know, as a West Ham fan, if you go down this year, I imagine there's going to be a lot of fans in protest at the state of the club.

[00:40:21]>> Fans in protest anyway, >> but I imagine it will get worse and they'll stop going. Um, >> that's already happening.

[00:40:26]>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's solely down to being in a championship. I think especially the clubs coming down that have to recoup some money and keep the ticket prices similar to what they are in Prem.

[00:40:39]>> There's no cap on away tickets in the Championship either. where people where people have taken 60 quid tickets.

[00:40:47]>> So you're in the Premier League that is towards the fans 30 pound ticket. I I go to every away game for West Ham and I've paid no more than£30. You can pay up to£60 to go and watch Roram.

[00:40:59]>> Well, they're down to League Two now. So not Rotherham, but yeah, I take your point. I do take your point. Yeah, I mean I guess >> so that's not directed at fans though, is it? That's that's not that's I mean this is a fanled Premier League initiative. How is how is that looking after your fans if they're asking you to pay more? Yeah.

[00:41:16]>> That's you look that's asking them you to look after them because they can't get the people in the gate.

[00:41:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. I'll concede that. Yeah. I can't argue with that.

[00:41:24]>> Get off them.

[00:41:31]>> So, that was Midnight Boxing. Let us know in the comments below who you guys think won the argument. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe and hype the video.

[00:41:42]We'll see you next time, guys.

[00:41:45][ __ ] hell.