Empire of Error - S1:E5 - Hear No Evil, See No Evil

Ajouté : 2026-05-18

[00:00:26]But I do know But I But I do know that he was extremely guilty of sweeping things under the rug here. Totally.

[00:00:36]>> Folks, I average 150 folks a week in my office. Average 150 folks a week. I dare say 75 of those have done something bad.

[00:00:46]They want to confess. Not not confess to me as a priest, but just get off their chest and tell me to pray for them.

[00:00:53]I know enough about people in this room to put you in the penitentiary.

[00:00:57]and I would take it, but you know enough about me to put me in an exile. Having been in that movement and you also um we had a mindset there that that really if you bought into everything he said the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, the you know we're just blind everything and you had that loyalty embedded in you where you were loyal no matter what and you refused to hear or listen to a bad story about anybody for any reason. Once you bought into that, um, it was very difficult unless you really had communications with God, unless you really were walking with God.

[00:01:44]That's hard to get out of.

[00:01:51]>> Well, thank you for watching today's episode. This is episode number five called Hear No Evil, See No Evil. Hear no evil, see no evil. Please take the time to smite your like button and subscribe to this channel if you are new. I want to tell you something that um the history of First Baptist Hammond is very interesting, very complicated, and in some ways a lot of things that we're going to talk about are more of a case study uh for future generations to glean and understand what really happened there. Um, in the late 80s, early 90s, unfortunately, Pastor Jack Hiles faced some serious serious allegations of adultery. And um, and he he had a war on his hands. No question.

[00:02:35]It was it was probably uh, if I could surmise, it was probably the hardest time of his entire life in ministry. Uh, very very I mean there it was a war.

[00:02:45]Let's just put it that way. And um on the tail end of that in 1992 he published a book called Justice.

[00:02:54]And I believe my personal opinion I think that the worst thing that Jack Hiles ever published was a book called Justice was this book. uh because I believe that this book opened up and created really a philosophy in the mind of his followers that was carboncopied and cloned across the country in which it made it almost impossible almost impossible to deal with abusers and sexual abuse in the local church. It is a um and I'll explain to you as we get into this here in this uh in this lesson, but this book I believe was put into the hands of people that didn't have pure motives at all who were nefarious people with serious problems who should have not ever been a part of of the leadership of any local church.

[00:03:50]And they use these concepts and these teachings to cover sin.

[00:03:56]And by covering sin, they perpetuated sin. And by perpetuating sin, they hurt a lot of people. And I blame this book for that. Let me, as I always do in these episodes, read from my script. And let me continue on. There's a quote in this book that um says in chapter number one, it says, "Keep your nose out of someone else's area. This would solve almost every problem you have. God has chosen different people for different areas. And what he does is he actually creates a concept called your area of authority. And he says, you know, basically in the book he he draws these circles and he says you are allowed to speak about what is in your circle in your area of authority. But it if is in a different circle and is not in your circle of authority, you are not allowed to say anything about that circle. And he gives a lot of illustrations like, you know, if the second grade teacher is teaching her class, she has no right to say anything about what happens in the third grade teacher's class because her circle of authority is the second grade teacher's class and the third grade teacher's circle of authority is her class. And the third grade teacher cannot say anything about the second grade teacher and the second grade teacher cannot say anything about the third grade teacher. That's cult language, folks. It's just just let's just call it what it is. It's it's just cult language. That's what they do. And that's one of the quotes of the book.

[00:05:24]Now, in chapter two, the book says, "I judge only when I have jurisdiction over somebody. I do not try to figure out what the Senate should be, what the crime is, or what judgment should be in someone else's area. I have too much to be concerned about in my own areas of jurisdiction. I never allow myself to draw an opinion about a judgment case unless I have jurisdiction. That's another way to word the same concept.

[00:05:53]Meaning this, that if a man, let's just say hypothetically, in let's say we got First Baptist Church and then we got Second Baptist Church of I don't know, Still Water, Oklahoma. Okay, I'm throwing out random names. in First Baptist Church of Stillwater, Oklahoma.

[00:06:07]Let's just say hypothetically you have a man who is a pedophile or a PDF file or an abuser of some sort. Okay, he is there. He commits a problem in there and then they deal with it in-house and they make the man apologize or whatever, which you that may horrify you, but churches have actually done that. Okay?

[00:06:25]And um and now they they let's just say hypothetically the man leaves and goes to Second Baptist Church of Stillwater, Oklahoma. He is a uh he has done some something over here that was abusive and um terrible. But now that he's not in our circle of authority, he goes to the next circle of authority. It is not we can't say anything. We are not allowed to call Second Baptist Church of Stillwater, Oklahoma, and warn against that man because that man is no longer in our circle of authority.

[00:06:54]You see how this works? And you see how this precedent being set is what caused abusers to be moved across the country.

[00:07:04]And really for a lot of pastors who are pragmatic in their sense, if they had something like that, their first reaction was send them down the road.

[00:07:12]And that's what they did. And they did it because of this book. Let me give you this example right here. Um this is an actual quote from the book here. Okay.

[00:07:22]One night at House Anderson College, someone forgot to lock a classroom door.

[00:07:26]A faculty member found a dating couple alone in that darkened classroom. The couple was not caught doing anything wrong. In fact, they claimed they were only praying together. Suddenly, I was placed in a pos in a position of making a judgment. Yes, you have a you have a young couple who's in love who is in a dark room in the middle of the night together unsupervised saying they did nothing wrong.

[00:07:54]Now, now what would most people think they were doing? Most of us would think that they were misbehaving.

[00:08:03]What did appear like they were doing? It appeared like they were doing wrong.

[00:08:06]Should the judge Should they be judged on what we think they were doing? Don't miss that. Should this couple be judged on what we think they were doing? No, that would not be just.

[00:08:22]Should they be judged for what it appeared they were doing? No, that also would not be just. They can be judged only for what I know that they were doing. Could I judge them for appearing to be doing something wrong? Only if a rule already existed stating that they could not appear to be doing wrong.

[00:08:46]What did I know this couple did? I know they went into a dark room alone together. That is all I know they did.

[00:08:55]Now, that does happen to be against the rules at Hiles Anderson College. My first impulse was to punish them for what I thought they were doing.

[00:09:05]But in order to be just, I could not do what I wanted to do. Others perhaps felt that I should punish them for what it appeared they were doing. But once again, in order to be just, I could not do what others wanted me to do. They were being punished for being in a dark room together.

[00:09:24]Now, I understand and I think that this is wrapped in showing mercy to people and not overcharging them. But do you see the precedent that that sets?

[00:09:36]Like hypothetically, if let's just say hypothetically, you see your youth pastor of your church walking out of a hotel room with a prostitute.

[00:09:47]Okay, that's pretty extreme. Now, wait a minute. Did you see them doing anything?

[00:09:54]What do you think they What do you think that your youth pastor was doing in that room with that prostitute?

[00:09:59]you didn't see him doing anything. For all it for all, you know, he was in there with an open Bible giving her the gospel.

[00:10:07]You know, it's it and and and to uh and to suggest that the youth pastor should be fired because you saw him walking out of a hotel room with a prostitute, uh you didn't see them do that. You you only think that they do that. And to assume that he was in there with a prostitute because he was, you know, having an affair, that's that's wrong of you to even say that. That is you are doing wrong. You are you are judging.

[00:10:37]And that's not just you cannot assume the worst about him. Even if you did see him walk out of that hotel room with that prostitute, that's the precedent that this book set.

[00:10:49]And that is what men did. And that is the precedent that wicked men took advantage of to do unspeakable things for years on end. That's a fact. And if you don't like that, too bad. Let me give you another quote from this book here.

[00:11:09]Let this is uh in chapter 11 of the book Justice. Let's use for an example a man who is a school teacher. Suppose he fails two young ladies in his class and they get together and decide to get revenge. They claim he made advances of a sexual nature towards them and they began to spread it around. Most preachers would have fired that man simply because those two girls accused him. This situation happened actually happened in one of our schools and eventually one girl admitted that she and the other girl had lied to get back at him for failing them. What if you were the one being falsely accused by two witnesses? What if that one being accused were your husband? Would you want people to take the word of two false witnesses? What if it were somebody else's husband who was being falsely accused?

[00:12:02]Now, that's a terrible story, but you realize that stories like that are like one out of a million.

[00:12:08]Stories like that don't happen very often. They do happen and I will admit that they do happen but um but they don't happen as much as they would want you to pretend they do. And here's what he says here. Listen to this in 1 Timothy 5 19 and 20. He even shows this in the book. Against an elder receive not an accusation but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all that others also may fear.

[00:12:33]The key word in this passage is the word receive.

[00:12:38]These verses do not say to believe. They say not to receive. The Supreme Court of the United States makes two decisions concerning a case. The first decision is whether or not to take the case. The second decision is how to judge the case. The word receive is the same word that describes the first decision in the Supreme Court makes. We are not even to consider a case against an elder unless there are at least two witnesses.

[00:13:02]This does not mean he's guilty. It only means that we will at least consider it.

[00:13:08]The guilt is not to be presumed. And if there are not at least two witnesses, we are not even to receive the accusation for consideration.

[00:13:18]We are never to receive gossip or hearsay, refuse to accept it. Far too many people know too much gossip that goes around our churches. He even says this, "I will receive the case only if there are at least two witnesses and then only if it is my in my jurisdiction or area of judgment.

[00:13:38]Oh my.

[00:13:40]So, let's just say hypothetically that um Second Baptist of Still Water, Oklahoma, two girls in that church go to the pastor of First Baptist Church, Still Water, Oklahoma, and say, "Our pastor did this to us." Well, he's got two witnesses. Now, let's just say hypothetically is one. My pastor did this to me. Well, he he's can't he can't even receive it because first of all, it's not in his area of jurisdiction.

[00:14:05]Second of all, because it's only one girl, do you see the president that's set here? And then hypothetically, if two girls come from Second Baptist in Still Water, Oklahoma, and forgive me if this if there's a church out there that's named that, forgive me, I have no idea.

[00:14:21]Um, if two girls come out of Stillwater, First Second Baptist Church, Stillwater, Oklahoma, go to First Baptist Church of Stillwater, Oklahoma, and say, "Our pastor did this to us." He can't even receive it because that's not his church. That's not his jurisdiction.

[00:14:36]That's not his his circle of authority.

[00:14:39]Oh my.

[00:14:41]You see the game that's being played here?

[00:14:44]And he says this, I will receive the case only if there are at least two witnesses and then only if it is in my jurisdiction or area of judgment. If they call this the in law they call this probable cause, which means they investigate it. But it does not mean the person is guilty. Do not assume guilt even if there are a hundred witnesses.

[00:15:07]Do not assume guilt even if there are a hundred witnesses.

[00:15:12]Okay. If there are two or more witnesses and if the matter is in your area, receive the case, consider the possibility and investigate it carefully. The sin discussed in 1 Timothy 5:19 is not the sin of the accused, but the sin of the one doing the accusing.

[00:15:31]Both these passages state the same reason for this. 1 Timothy 5:20 that others also may fear. Deuteronomy 19:20 says, "And those which remain shall hear in fear." In both cases, the Bible is speaking of false accusations and the rebuking of those who falsely accuse. So we are taught to deal harshly with false accusers. But the funny thing is is in this system, in this line of thinking, you are to deal harshly with false accusers. But if the accusations are true, you are not to you are not to be harsh with the man who is guilty of the sin. you were supposed to restore him.

[00:16:02]Seems skewed to me. There are ve very few things any worse than falsely accusing someone. Imagine a person falsely accusing someone just so that person will be wrongly punished. That is a terrible thing. By the way, just because you have a gut feeling about someone does not give you the right to accuse him. That would never stand up in court, God forbids this type of accusation and treats it as the most severe crime. And I I agree with that.

[00:16:25]You you don't just accuse people just because you have a feeling. Your life is not going to be rich if you lose your heroes. That is what is wrong with America. America was great when America had heroes. When you lose your heroes, you lose your security and forfeit your chance to grow. When you lose your heroes, you cannot be taught more. The best preacher will be with the one with the hero. The best musician will be the one with a hero. And because of that, out of a pragmatic mindset, we've got to preserve the heroes. Even if they've done something terrible, we've got to prop them back up because we need heroes in the local church.

[00:17:04]That's not justice. But that's what's in this book called justice.

[00:17:10]The last page of the book gives the most horrendous and damning example of how this philosophy is played out in this church. Hiles claimed that if you were acting like Satan that that Hiles claims that you were acting like Satan if you said something that was true about someone else.

[00:17:27]For example, if you said quote that man did this to a child and it was true, you are still acting like Satan because you are still even though it's true, you still shouldn't say it.

[00:17:46]The book says this, and this is the last few sentences of the book right here.

[00:17:51]This is it right here.

[00:17:54]Quote, "One day while preaching on the devil, I received the shock of my life. It dawned on me that the devil does not just falsely accuse us to God. He often tells the truth about us. It is not only false accusation that makes us like the devil.

[00:18:11]It is also true accusation.

[00:18:14]We are not to be accusers.

[00:18:22]My enemies enjoy stressing that I like to cover up sin. I never cover up sin. I simply do not go around the country telling every telling about everyone's sin.

[00:18:35]I am in the business of restoring people, not destroying people. I am in the business of reclaiming, not defaming. You will never be more satanic than when you tell something true or false about someone else.

[00:18:50]Like are we not allowed to talk about people in at all? Like I mean was was God the Holy Spirit satanic when he said that demons hath forsaken me and in in the Bible? I mean was was God the Holy Spirit satanic when he inspired Paul to put that in there? Demons hath forsaken me. Alexander Cobbsmith done me more more. I mean, was the writer of 1 and 2 Samuel satanic when they put the sins of Basheba and and or excuse me, the sin of David with Bashibba in the scriptures? I mean, what are we doing here?

[00:19:21]He says, quote, "And I you will never be more satanic than when you tell something true or false about someone else." The entire structure of the system of Satan is a accusation in order to destroy God's system of justice. I do not want any part of Satan's system. I want to be involved in carrying out the work of the perfect justice of God.

[00:19:45]So if a man is a serial adulterer and he went to this church and he, you know, he went to First Baptist of Stillwater, Oklahoma and he busted up nine marriages and he goes to Stillwater, Oklahoma to the Second Baptist church and someone from First Baptist warns Second Baptist and says, "Do not let them men come to your church. busted up nine marriages at this church. That is satanic according to the logic of justice by Jack Hiles. Don't let that man in your church, he busted up nine marriages at this church and the church before that. He busted up 11 marriages in the church before that. He he he messed with 14 teenagers at that church.

[00:20:30]So he has a pattern. Okay. The per the people at First Baptist of Stillwater, Oklahoma are not allowed to even speak that or warn the Second Baptist Church about that man or else according to this book they are being satanic.

[00:20:50]The worst thing he ever wrote was justice because a lot of people got hurt. Anyone who is sane can see how this would create an open culture of cover-ups.

[00:21:04]When a statement equates all accusation, even a true accusation, even a even a statement of fact with satanic behavior, it creates a powerful psychological barrier against reporting wrongdoing. In that framework, the issue is no longer whether something actually happened, but whether speaking about it makes you morally suspect. That flips the entire moral equation on its head. Instead of truth being the standard, silence becomes the standard. A victim, a witness, or even a concerned member is now forced to wrestle with a loaded choice. Speak up and risk being labeled destructive, divisive, or even satanic.

[00:21:43]Or stay silent and be seen as spiritual, loyal, and restorative. Over time, that pressure conditions people to suppress what they know to be a fact.

[00:21:54]Not because the evidence is weak, but because the cost of speaking is simply too high. That kind of precedent also centralizes control over what is allowed to be known. If exposing sin is framed as destroying rather than protecting others, then only leadership retains the authority to define what counts as restoration versus defamation.

[00:22:18]Good gracious, y'all.

[00:22:22]In practice, this can create a closed system where sins are handled privately, selectively or not at all while the broader church remains uninformed. The language of resto of restoring not destroying sounds really noble and it sounds really spiritual.

[00:22:38]But without transparency and accountability, it can become a mechanism for protecting reputations rather than victims.

[00:22:46]The result is a culture where patterns of abuse can continue unchecked because the very act of bringing them to light has been morally disqualified before it even begins. I'll tell you this story.

[00:22:58]There was a young lady that I saw years ago that she um she she was messed with by her pastor when she was 16 years old.

[00:23:05]And I think that later on in life, like you know, five, six years later, um she decided that she had had enough. She was married and she wanted to uh expose her abuser and she um you know she told a few pastors, she told some people and they were getting ready to deal with it the legal way uh report it to the police.

[00:23:26]But this this young lady decided I'm going to put this on Facebook and I'm going to tell the world what that man did to me when I was 16. And oh, it was a terrible story. Horrible story. Sad.

[00:23:38]Um just awful. Shocking. The man that she said that about was uh lost his job.

[00:23:45]But I saw one idiot online who was up to his eyeballs in this philosophy of ministry.

[00:23:52]Everybody would know him. He said that the accusation that she threw online needed to be thrown out and dismissed entirely because she published it openly and did not put did not deal with it within her circle of authority.

[00:24:11]aka she publicly exposed him and that made the church look bad and therefore the accusation was invalid.

[00:24:23]Now, I'm sorry, but when a teenager and a and a pastor go into a dark basement and um do something they ought not do, I'm not sure if there's two or three witnesses that we can have that um can come forward saying that they saw that with their own eyeballs because sin like that is usually not done in Time Square.

[00:24:40]Let's just put it that way.

[00:24:45]My goodness. And so the question has to be raised, why would somebody teach something like this that just could it just seems so provocative. It just seems so skewed. It just seems so, oh, just immoral. Why would a man even teach this? Well, a man may teach this because he genuinely believes he's protecting people and preserving the the work of God in the church. And in his mind, public exposure equates or equals destruction, while silence equals restoration.

[00:25:15]He may have seen situations where rumors, gossip, or false accusations have damaged lives. And I I think I have too. So he builds a strong wall against anything that resembles accusation at all. Add to that a deep emphasis on unity, loyal, and loyalty and authority.

[00:25:31]And he begins to frame criticism as spiritually dangerous rather than potentially necessary.

[00:25:37]Over time, this can turn into a philosophy where protecting the reputation of the ministry feels synonymous with protecting the cause of Christ. He is not necessarily thinking, I want to hide wrongdoing, but rather I want to prevent harm to the church from slander and defamation.

[00:25:56]And so what he does is that he narrows the spectrum and he narrows the definition of what he will accept. so dangerously narrow that true accusations are not even allowed to be heard anymore.

[00:26:14]At the same time, this teaching can serve a form of self-preservation whether consciously or subconsciously.

[00:26:20]Uh when a leader operates in a high visibility, high influence position, the threat of accusation can feel like a threat to everything he's built. So he constructs a system where accusations are morally suspect by default which lowers the likelihood that challenges will gain traction and accusations will gain traction. It also reinforces his authority because it discourages scrutiny from those under him. In some cases it may reflect fear of chaos, fear of losing control or fear of what might happen if people began to openly question his leadership.

[00:26:54]Regardless of the motive, the result is the same. A culture where speaking truth carries a cost and silence becomes the safer, more spiritual option. A truly nefarious person would promote this kind of teaching because it gives him preemptive prepackaged protection against the things that he knows he's going to do.

[00:27:14]If he can convince people that speaking uh about wrongdoing is itself wrongdoing and sinful, then he has effectively disarmed any future accusers before they even and ever open their mouth.

[00:27:30]He does not need to argue facts, defend actions, or face evidence. The system itself does the work for him. Victims hesitate. Witnesses stay quiet. And anyone who raises concerns can be reframed as the real problem because they're disloyal.

[00:27:47]By labeling even true accusations as destructive or satanic, he shifts the moral spotlight away from behavior and onto speech. In that environment, the question is no longer did this happen, but quote, why are you talking about it?

[00:28:01]Don't talk about that.

[00:28:04]And that's an incredibly incredibly powerful shield for someone who intends to operate without accountability.

[00:28:10]It also allows him to control the narrative and maintain authority with minimal resistance. If people believe that exposing sin is worse than committing it, and they do, then loyalty becomes measured by silence.

[00:28:27]A nefarious leader can continue harmful behavior or protect others who do while presenting himself as spiritual, merciful, and a man who's committed to restoration and restoring the fallen.

[00:28:41]Meanwhile, those who might challenge him are isolated, discredited, or guilted into submission. Over time, this creates a closed system where truth cannot easily surface because the moral framework itself punishes transparency.

[00:28:55]In that sense, the teaching is not just a belief. It becomes a tool of control, ensuring even when wrongdoing exists, it is unlikely to be confronted in any meaningful way.

[00:29:07]This line of thinking is really unscriptural because it it collapses categories the Bible carefully keeps distinct.

[00:29:14]Scripture condemns false accusations and malicious gossip, but it also commands righteous judgment and the exposure of sin.

[00:29:21]We are to judge righteous judgment. John 7:24. Uh, we are supposed to rebuke leadership that falls in a sin. 1 Timothy 5:20. And we are to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them in Ephesians 5:11. So, while the Bible warns against slander, it never teaches that all accusation, even when in true, is inherently evil.

[00:29:45]You'll never find that in the Bible.

[00:29:46]It's not there.

[00:29:49]It's an error. Some would even call that a heresy. To equate truthful exposure with satanic behavior is to silence the very mechanism God ordained to preserve purity and justice within his people.

[00:30:03]When that distinction is erased, it creates an environment where predatory people can operate with far less risk.

[00:30:10]If members are taught that reporting wrongdoing is sinful, then predators benefit from the prepackaged built-in protection that's already there.

[00:30:22]Victims hesitate to speak because they fear being labeled divisive or unspiritual. They certainly don't want to hurt their church and so they don't say anything.

[00:30:32]Witnesses may re remain quiet because they do not want to be seen as accusers.

[00:30:36]And leaders who should investigate may instead dismiss concerns as gossip.

[00:30:43]In that kind of culture, wrongdoing is not confronted. It is contained, minimized, or ignored. The predator does not need to work hard to hide because the system itself discourages anyone from looking too closely. What was framed as grace or restoration becomes in practice a barrier to truth, allowing harmful behavior to continue unchecked.

[00:31:08]In a sense, what is on the surface called grace or restoration really is a dare to good people to dare say something, which is actually the opposite of grace and restoration.

[00:31:25]A legitimate victim in that kind of system often experiences a second injury on top of the first. When they try to speak, they are not met first with investigation, but with suspicion.

[00:31:37]They are told they're quote spreading an evil report or quote being divisive or or quote hurting the work of God instead of their claim being weighed.

[00:31:48]Their motives are questioned and these are victims. These are people who've been hurt and that creates confusion and self-doubt and ultimately destroys the faith and the trust of these victims.

[00:32:05]They begin to wonder if telling the truth is actually wrong.

[00:32:09]Many victims internalize this and start minimizing what happened to them because the culture has already defined their voice is dangerous. The result is not just silence. The psychological pressure to reinterpret their own experience so that it fits the system.

[00:32:26]Over time, this produces isolation and discouragement in the lives of these people. The victim often loses trust not only in leadership but in the entire spiritual environment that taught them to stay quiet. Some withdraw emotionally while remaining physically present trying to survive within the system.

[00:32:44]Others leave altogether often carrying guilt because they feel like they are the problem and that it was their fault.

[00:32:52]In many cases, they never receive acknowledgement, justice, or protection.

[00:32:56]Meanwhile, the person who harmed them may continue on without consequence.

[00:33:02]Maybe at the same church, maybe at a different church, but they do continue on. That imbalance can deeply affect a person's view of authority, truth, and even God. What should have been a place of refuge becomes a place where pain is buried and unadressed, leaving the victim to carry both the original harm and the weight of being unheard.

[00:33:24]When a pattern like that persists over decades, it stops being a series of isolated incidents. It becomes a system of harm.

[00:33:34]Patterns repeat. Warning signs are normalized. And the same mech mechanisms that silence the first victims continue to silence the next and the next and the next and the next and the next.

[00:33:44]People eventually, good people with sense, begin to sense that something is wrong, but they lack the language or freedom to confront it or really even the courage to confront it. Over time, the culture itself adapts to protect the pattern. Lo loyalty is rewarded. Silence is spiritualized. And those who raise concerns are pushed out.

[00:34:04]So the long-term damage of the system is severe and farreaching. Victims accumulate often carrying unresolved trauma and this multiplies gener generationally. And uh while trust in leadership and even in Christianity itself is eroded away. Some walk away from church entirely not because they rejected truth but because truth was never allowed to operate where they were. Others stay but become hardened, cynical or emotional emotionally detached. Meanwhile, the institution may continue outwardly successful creating a painful contradiction between public image and private reality.

[00:34:41]Eventually, when the truth does surface, the fallout is multiplied. It's no longer about one event. It's about years of ignored warnings, dismissed voices, and protected wrongdoing. At this point, uh really, it's not just you're destroyed one kid. You've destroyed an entire generation.

[00:35:00]And the truth is, I see that.

[00:35:03]I see that.

[00:35:06]But those in the system won't see it.

[00:35:10]When victims accumulate over time, the issue shifts fairly kind of from an isolated failure to a pattern people can recognize and that's a big problem.

[00:35:25]Eventually there comes a tipping point and it usually comes when the cost of denial becomes greater than the cost of admission. The moment often arrives when an insider start to speak publicly while documentation surfaces or when the number of accounts becomes too large to dismiss without appearing willfully blind. At that stage, even loyal supporters feel the tension between what they have been told and what they are seeing. Some double down, but many begin to distance themselves. Once that threshold is crossed, credibility is extremely difficult to recover because the issue is no longer just what happened. The it is the realization that it was allowed to happen repeatedly without correction for decades at a time.

[00:36:13]And ultimately what happens is you have one crisis that the domino falls and they keep falling and keep falling and keep falling and what you have is a complete and forever collapse of credibility and trust and it will never be recovered ever again.

[00:36:34]And when this happens these people don't have any more moral authority to speak about anything anymore.

[00:36:42]A movement may still have buildings, programs, and a public voice, but people no longer believe what it says. You can't they they've disqualified themselves from speaking.

[00:36:53]Sermons that once carried weight now sound hollow. Appeals of scripture feel selective or self-s serving. Leaders who are once followed without question are viewed with suspicion now and angst really. Even those who remain loyal to it do so out of habit or pressure.

[00:37:09]But even their questioning now and the gap between what is preached and what is perceived becomes impossible to ignore.

[00:37:16]And that tension drains the life out of the institution from the inside.

[00:37:21]And after a while, what happens is people some people leave, some people speak out, and some double down in defense. We're seeing that today. And a big rift happens. I think we're seeing that today, too.

[00:37:35]And so what is the tragedy of all this? What is the point? There's much more I could say.

[00:37:44]The tragedy of this teaching and this episode is called hear no evil, see no evil.

[00:37:54]The tragedy is not that it ignores sin, but it redefineses righteousness in a way that protects sin.

[00:38:02]What began as a warning against gossip can become a weapon against the truth.

[00:38:08]What sounded like mercy can become a mask for abuse to perpetuate.

[00:38:13]And what was meant to guard the church can end up corrupting it from within.

[00:38:19]God has never called his people to blind loyalty or to silent complicity. He called them to walk in the light where they uh where things are seen for what they are and where truth is not feared but welcomed.

[00:38:34]Accountability is the norm.

[00:38:39]And if a system must silence victims, discourage questions, and shame those to speak in order to stay in business, then it is not preserving righteousness.

[00:38:52]is preserving itself. It's not standing for God. It's standing for itself. So, what is the answer to all this? Well, the answer is to stand for what's right with courage, to have justice, true justice, and to not compromise in this area.

[00:39:10]Because in the end, a church that refuses to see evil will and to stand against evil will lose its ability to stand for what's right.

[00:39:20]Don't talk to me about standing for what's right if you won't stand against what's evil. Don't talk to me about sir, don't talk to me about the evils of rock and roll music when you've got a real live pedophile sitting right there and you won't say anything about him. Don't talk to me about that. You've lost you've disqualified yourself from that.

[00:39:40]Sit down.

[00:39:42]And really when that happens, the cost is not just reputational, it's spiritual, it's generational, and it's devastating.

[00:39:49]And that is what happens. And I think that that is what has happened to a lot of churches.

[00:39:58]May God have mercy.

[00:40:01]This is episode number five. Hear no evil, see no evil. May God bless you and speak to your heart. And we'll see you next time.