Pt1: Fatal Attraction: The Story of Jodi Arias

[00:00:05]There are murder cases and then there are murder cases that become cultural obsessions. Cases where every text message, every interview, every smile and tear, in this case, every pointed finger, you'll see what I mean by that later, is dissected not just by detectives and a jury, but by the public.

[00:00:30]The murder of Travis Alexander by his former girlfriend Jodie Aras was one of those cases.

[00:00:38]The murder trial was streamed live to the masses.

[00:00:43]The media descended on a Phoenix, Arizona courtroom, and onlookers clamorred for anything they could watch daily in person what was shaping up to be the trial of the decade.

[00:00:58]Travis, a young successful motivational speaker and top sales rep, was found brutally murdered, slumped over in the shower of his Arizona home, his body stabbed multiple times.

[00:01:14]Now, at first, Jody would deny being there on the day her aranged ex was murdered, but a series of chilling, and and I mean chilling, photographs told a very different story.

[00:01:30]Investigators would soon uncover that Travis and Jod were in a deadly fatal attraction-like relationship fueled by secrecy, obsession, rejection, and jealousy culminating in a brutal act of violence.

[00:01:50]An act that shocked even the most seasoned detectives.

[00:01:55]Now, when backed into a corner with stone cold, undeniable evidence, Jodie changed her story. First saying she witnessed masked ninja-like intruders murder her lover in cold blood before finally admitting that she and she alone was the one who stabbed Travis Alexander to death.

[00:02:22]Now, Jod insisted the killing was an act of self-defense while she was blacked out in a state that she described as quote the fog.

[00:02:34]Now, the question for the jury and the wrapped public became, was Jod a victim fighting for her life or a calculating killer rewriting history every time the facts caught up with her? Now, I sent my producer to cover the case, and she actually got to know Jodie pretty well, meeting with her behind bars, where Jodie gave us what she insisted was her real story. We were in the courtroom as she testified and when the verdict was read and we're going to tell you about all the secret drama going on behind bars as the trial unfolded. And let me tell you, it is a story unto itself.

[00:03:25]Now, 13 years after Travis's murder, after being sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, Jod is resurfacing, saying she wants another chance at freedom.

[00:03:42]You're listening to Mystery and Murder, analysis by Dr. Phil.

[00:03:49]Before we can understand how this relationship spiraled into one of the most infamous murders in modern American history, we have to understand the two people at its center.

[00:04:01]Jodie Aras was born in 1980 and raised in a small Northern California town near the Oregon border.

[00:04:10]Friends described her as artistic, creative, and quiet.

[00:04:16]She developed a passion for photography, often carrying a camera wherever she went. And she expressed herself through painting and writing. So pretty introspective into herself rather than being gregarious and outgoing. Now by her 20s, she drifted from job to job landing on a multi-level marketing gig for prepaid legal services.

[00:04:41]that it was there that she met Travis Alexander.

[00:04:46]Travis was born in Riverside, California. Those who knew him described him as relentlessly optimistic. He possessed an infectious charisma.

[00:04:58]And unlike Jod, he was outgoing and very ambitious. And by his late 20s, he had become one of the rising stars with prepaid legal. He was a gifted motivational speaker and traveled the country recruiting new associates and encouraging others to pursue financial independence.

[00:05:20]He was also deeply devoted to his Mormon faith as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[00:05:29]Travis often spoke publicly about his personal growth, discipline, and living a life centered on family and spiritual values.

[00:05:40]Travis and Jod met in September of 2006 at a conference in Las Vegas.

[00:05:49]He would say that he was immediately drawn to her intelligence, sense of humor, and outgoing personality, which contradicts how others had described her years earlier, and of course her looks.

[00:06:06]Now, she in turn seemed captivated by his confidence, warmth, and success.

[00:06:12]They spent hours talking during the conference. And although Travis lived in Arizona, Jod in California, they did not let the distance slow their growing connection.

[00:06:25]Their courtship moved quickly.

[00:06:28]Long phone calls turned into frequent visits, and before long, they were deeply involved in one another's lives.

[00:06:37]Jod immersed herself in Travis's world.

[00:06:42]She began studying the teachings of the LDS church and attended services with him.

[00:06:49]And in November 2006, this is just a few months now after they met, she was baptized into the Mormon faith.

[00:07:02]Some friends saw it as evidence of her commitment to the relationship.

[00:07:07]Others wondered whether she was actually having a sincere spiritual awakening or if this was just an effort to become the woman she believed Travis wanted.

[00:07:22]So some thought, hey, you know, she's really growing up. Others thought, no, she's just shaping herself into who she thinks he wants.

[00:07:32]Now, in the beginning, the relationship appeared passionate and definitely exciting.

[00:07:38]Travis introduced Jod to his friends and his family. They traveled together, attended business conferences, and talked about the future.

[00:07:47]But even during those early months, subtle warning signs were beginning to emerge. coming up. People that live in the extremes, like they become extremely devoted, make extreme changes, they tend to have extreme reactions when things don't go well.

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[00:09:14]>> On the Dr. Phil podcast this Thursday.

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[00:09:50]friends recalled that Jodie seemed intensely focused on Travis, wanting to spend nearly every available moment with him.

[00:10:00]She often appeared to organize her own life around his schedule, his activities, his ambitions. Now, we have to kind of unpack this for a minute here because there's a psychological dynamic that stands out here. By many accounts, she appeared to be reshaping her very being, certainly her personality, her values, her expressed values at least, into the woman that she thought he wanted. Now, a lot of experts feel that at least the core elements of your personality are in place by the time you're four or 5 years old. Now, later research has shown that we continue to develop our personality into our teens and 20s, but certain core elements are definitely shaped early on in life. And if you see people undergo a a significant makeover by the time they're in their 20s, either they've had a real awakening, some major influence in their life has has happened, like falling in love or finding God or whatever, it's usually not just a transition. It's a revelation.

[00:11:20]Something has to really happen. And that seemed to be the case here. And you you have to wonder, is there an agenda behind it? Is it something real?

[00:11:31]Or is it motivated in a manipulative way? Is it to try to convince somebody else that you're somebody else?

[00:11:43]Or are you really remaking yourself? And if so, why? because she certainly didn't seem to be dissatisfied with who she was until she started reshaping herself. She embraced his religion, immersed herself in his interest even though she was seemingly very passionate about the things in her life, painting, photography, writing, those were things that really seemed to fulfill her. But all of a sudden, his interest pushed everything else off the table, and she built her life around what was important to him, and she seemed determined to become the ideal partner in his eyes. Now, on the surface, that seemed like it could just look like commitment.

[00:12:34]But I've often said if you have to stop being all of who you are to be half of a couple, the price is too high and it's not a healthy dynamic.

[00:12:46]Some people call it codependency. There are a lot of buzzwords for it, but the common sense of it is if you have to stop being who you are, that's a high price to become half of a couple. There has to be room for both people to be who they are. And there's an important difference between growing with someone and disappearing into that person, losing yourself.

[00:13:11]And when a person begins sacrificing their own identity in order to secure another person's love attention, that relationship can become really psychologically dangerous because you've turned your power over to them.

[00:13:30]And if they don't handle that really well, then you're vulnerable. And if all of a sudden they don't reciprocate, they don't manage that well, the reaction can be really bad. People that live in the extremes, like they become extremely devoted, make extreme changes and live in the extremes, they tend to have extreme reactions when things don't go well.

[00:14:04]And if your sense of worth depends entirely on whether one person chooses you, then that potential rejection doesn't just hurt. It can feel like complete annihilation. You're not just losing relationship. You've lost your identity in that relationship. And a really unhealthy dynamic can develop.

[00:14:29]You can't just be a chameleon and turn your power, your worth, your identity over to someone else to manage.

[00:14:40]All in the pursuit of acceptance, which is our number one need. Eventually, there may be very little left of the person that you were before the relationship began. And Jod's inability to accept that loss may well have become a critical part of understanding what ultimately happened. The very man she had worked so hard to become perfect for seemed to have rejected that version of her. And according to the prosecution, rather than allowing him to move on, they say she made that decision. you've heard a million times, if I can't have you, nobody can.

[00:15:23]And so, she decided to end his life.

[00:15:27]Now, keeping all of that in mind, we're going to now talk about what actually happened.

[00:15:32]For Travis, Jod's attention felt flattering at first, but over time, those closest to him began noticing that the relationship was becoming volatile.

[00:15:42]Arguments became more frequent. Breakups were followed by reconciliations.

[00:15:48]And one of the defining tensions in the relationship centered around Travis's faith.

[00:15:55]A devout Mormon, he believed sex belonged within marriage.

[00:16:00]Yet, despite those beliefs, he and Jod did enter into a sexual relationship that continued throughout much of their time together. And it became a real source of guilt for Travis because he was serious about his religious commitments.

[00:16:20]And so he felt like he was compromising his strong religious convictions. And at various points, he tried to just end the relationship. He was saying, "Look, I I can't this feels hypocritical. I can't do this and and be true to my faith."

[00:16:37]saying that he wanted to find someone who shared his long-term values.

[00:16:44]Now, the pattern was they would always get back together, but by the spring of 2008, Travis had made a firm decision.

[00:16:56]As passionate as their relationship had been, he knew Jod was not the woman he wanted to marry. There's a real contradictory dynamic here.

[00:17:06]The very things that made him so infatuated with her, the very things that made her so appealing to him were the things that drove him away from her.

[00:17:18]He felt that she was a temptation that he couldn't deal with. He was emotionally exhausted living two lives and and all the guilt associated with it. It just wore him out. He was emotionally exhausted and done with the on-again off-again cycle. And he told friends that he felt torn because he did have a physical attraction to Jodie, but he knew they were fundamentally incompatible.

[00:17:52]Because as much as she seemed to want to shape herself into what she thought he wanted, she couldn't mimic the depth of his religious commitment because what she seemed to think she had to offer was in large part the physical sexual aspect. and she couldn't empathetically understand that while that was appealing, it was also off-putting. Coming up, our number one need in life is acceptance. Our number one fear is rejection. And she had invested everything into him.

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[00:19:40]He was ready to fully call it quits and move on. And Jod just absolutely could not do that because as I said, she had turned her power over to him. Our number one need in life is acceptance.

[00:19:54]Our number one fear is rejection. And she had invested everything into him.

[00:20:01]her identity, her lifestyle, her priorities, her time, her very identity.

[00:20:11]And now he was rejecting her.

[00:20:15]So who was she now?

[00:20:18]She had abandoned herself, abandoned her identity, and become who she thought he wanted. And now he's saying, "No, I don't want you." So she wasn't Jodi Aras anymore and now she couldn't be Ms. Travis and she was just unwilling to let go. Now Travis's friends would later testify that she seemed to just refuse to accept the breakup. Even after he cut her off, she remained deeply involved in his life.

[00:20:55]After the breakup, she moved from California to Arizona, just minutes from Travis's house.

[00:21:02]Now, they were no longer a couple, but she continued to communicate with him frequently, and they remained sexually involved on occasion.

[00:21:11]She took restaurant jobs and even cleaned his house for extra money while remaining heavily involved in his life.

[00:21:21]Now, Travis's friends began noticing increasingly troubling behavior.

[00:21:29]So, what was it they were seeing? Well, I've already described part of it. They broke up, but she didn't. He broke up, but she kept turning up.

[00:21:44]She's cleaning his house. She's moved to his neighborhood.

[00:21:50]they're continuing to have intermittent sex and then she would just show up at his house unexpectedly. She would monitor his activities and act intensely jealous of other women. On one occasion, Travis told friends he believed someone had entered his home while he was away.

[00:22:10]His journals his personal belongings appeared to have been disturbed.

[00:22:16]tires on his vehicle were found slashed.

[00:22:21]Now, of course, Jod denied responsibility.

[00:22:25]After about a year, she moved back to California to live with her grandparents.

[00:22:30]As Travis tried to rebuild his life without Jod in it, he met someone else, a fellow member of the LDS church.

[00:22:38]Now, friends described his new love interest as someone who shared his faith. and many of the qualities he hoped to find in a wife.

[00:22:49]The two were getting to know each other and Travis had invited her to accompany him on an upcoming business and church related trip to Cancun, Mexico.

[00:23:00]Now, Jod was aware that Travis was seeing other women, and to say she wasn't happy about it would be an understatement.

[00:23:11]emails, text messages, and later testimony painted the picture of a woman who was becoming increasingly distressed.

[00:23:22]That the man she loved was moving on without her.

[00:23:29]As time went on, he really was breaking up.

[00:23:35]They had said it, but she wasn't doing it. He was doing it. And now he was actually moving on.

[00:23:42]It seemed the romantic Mexican getaway with another woman.

[00:23:47]It It just may have been the tipping point. It just may have pushed things over the edge.

[00:23:54]And one of the most dangerous moments in a volatile emotional relationship can come when one partner feels that loss of control.

[00:24:10]when they feel like all their efforts, all their manipulations, everything that they've envisioned is slipping away and they panic and you get what is called in psychology the frustration effect. They amp up their efforts. You see this in domestic violence relationships, intimate partner violence. When the controlling partner senses that they're losing that control, they panic and they start grabbing on harder. And that's when violence, what may have been just emotional or control, can jump to physical. And that's when the most dangerous time is. And that's when the most serious injuries or death through violence occurs.

[00:25:10]When that one partner truly believes this relationship is is is getting out of hand. It's it's falling away. It's over.

[00:25:17]And they just simply can't tolerate that reality. We sometimes see what is called narcissistic injury. a profound psychological wound that occurs when someone's identity, their self-worth, their sense of control is shattered by that rejection. And for an individual whose identity has become so fused in the relationship, that rejection and that partner moving on and replacing them with someone else isn't just experienced as heartbreak. It is experienced as annihilation. You, as I said early on, have given them your power. And in some offenders, particularly those with that obsessive attachment, that pathological jealousy, it gets very dangerous.

[00:26:08]You see this with borderline personality disorders and narcissistic personality disorders.

[00:26:15]Rejection doesn't simply trigger sadness. It can activate what researchers call abandonment rage.

[00:26:23]Their thinking becomes increasingly rigid.

[00:26:26]Very distorted. They see themselves as the victim asking, "How do I survive this loss?" Their mind shifts to how do I stop this from happening? And that's when we see cognitive constriction where the person's ability to generate healthy solutions narrows dramatically.

[00:26:44]They see revenge, control or elimination of the perceived source of pain as the only option they can imagine. They distort things in their mind such that someone is victimizing them.

[00:27:01]They don't say, "Look, I've overinvested in this. I I've sold my soul here. I I've put so much pressure on this relationship. I've driven my partner away. I I need to hit the reset button.

[00:27:15]This is not a life sentence for them.

[00:27:18]They have the right to go do what they want to do. It just didn't work out.

[00:27:22]That those are not conversations they have. They say, "They are hurting me.

[00:27:27]They're doing this to me. I have to strike back."

[00:27:32]And that's when you hear people say, "The person snapped."

[00:27:39]That's an oversimplification.

[00:27:41]It it looks like an explosion in a in a single moment, but it's not. It is an escalation of obsession, fixation, perceived humiliation, rumination, a growing sense of entitlement and victimization where they justify seeking revenge.

[00:28:04]They may spend days or weeks rehearsing grievances, monitoring the victim, fantasizing about reconciliation or retaliation and interpreting every act as a renewed rejection. It's not just one thing where look, this isn't working.

[00:28:25]It's not one time.

[00:28:28]By the time they work it over in their mind, they've been victimized a hundred times, a thousand times.

[00:28:38]And by the time violence occurs, there has often been a psychological progression that's been building beneath the surface.

[00:28:46]It's just a pressure cooker ready to blow.

[00:28:50]coming up. Then all of a sudden, what seems so sweet and endearing has teeth and you realize it wasn't about love. It was about power.

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[00:30:14]So, is there ultimately a snap? Yes. But it is not one event. It has been building up across time.

[00:30:22]Another concept forensic psychology examine is coercive control. And for some offenders, the relationship isn't about love. It's about possession. It's about power. It's about control.

[00:30:35]The victim is viewed less as an autonomous human being and more as an extension of the offender's identity.

[00:30:42]They don't have the right to leave me.

[00:30:44]They are part of me. They're not entitled to have a future of their own or to be with somebody else.

[00:30:51]Yeah. I'm throwing a lot of of different ways of telling you about the same thing. And you need to stop and think about this for a minute because it could be happening in your own life. And what I'm telling you is that they can't take no for an answer.

[00:31:09]They've invested too much to even entertain someone behaving autonomously.

[00:31:19]when they overinvest in the relationship, what in the beginning can seem like so sweet and so devoted is really a method of control and manipulation.

[00:31:32]And when you recoil from that, then all of a sudden, what seems so sweet and endearing has teeth.

[00:31:46]And you realize it wasn't about love, it was about power. And that can be dangerous.

[00:31:54]And again, it gets back to if I can't have you, no one can.

[00:32:00]And that's why investigators always look closely at the period immediately before the intimate partner homicide.

[00:32:09]Was the victim moving on? Were they rejecting the partner?

[00:32:14]Had they established new boundaries?

[00:32:16]Were they becoming involved with someone else? Those aren't causes of the violence. They're often the triggering events that expose the offender's underlying pathology.

[00:32:29]The responsibility always rests with the person who chooses violence. But understanding those psychological mechanisms helps us recognize how rejection perceived humiliation can trigger this obsessive need to regain control. And it's a lethal lethal mindset.

[00:32:52]And it's so odd that at first it is valued and ultimately it can be deadly.

[00:33:03]On June 2nd, 2008, Jod rented a car in Northern California.

[00:33:11]Before beginning the nearly thousandm drive to Travis's home, she purchased several gas cans.

[00:33:19]Along the route, she stopped at multiple gas stations, filling them up, using only cash to pay.

[00:33:27]Prosecutor argued those gas purchases were significant because they reduced the paper trail, documenting her movements.

[00:33:36]The route carried her across hundreds of miles of isolated desert highways, California, Nevada, then in Arizona.

[00:33:47]My point is, she didn't just fly off the handle in the kitchen.

[00:33:54]She had a thousand miles to change her mind.

[00:34:00]She did not.

[00:34:03]She would later say she was simply on her way to visit another man in Utah and had decided to stop by Travis's house along the way. like people always get gas cans and pay cash just to go see a friend.

[00:34:22]Prosecutors rejected that explanation out of hand, arguing the evidence showed far more sinister and deliberate premeditation. They contended that Jod had made a conscious decision to seek out Travis Alexander before he left for Cancun with another woman, something she simply could not abide.

[00:34:45]Her journey that would culminate in one of the most brutal homicide scenes Arizona investigators had ever encountered.

[00:34:53]Travis was expected in Mexico when he failed to show up. friends became concerned.

[00:35:03]They had been unable to reach him for several days and that simply wasn't like him. As I said, he was outgoing. He was engaging. On June 9th, 5 days after investigators believe he was killed, several friends went to his Mesa, Arizona home to check on him.

[00:35:22]The house appeared quiet.

[00:35:24]As they searched room to room, one friend opened the door to the downstairs shower.

[00:35:31]and made a horrifying discovery.

[00:35:36]There, crumpled in the shower stall was the body of Travis Alexander.

[00:35:43]The scene, well, it was almost unimaginable. His body was in an advanced state of decomposition after lying undiscovered for days in the Arizona heat in June.

[00:35:59]Blood stained the bathroom walls and floor. The shower was filled with bloody water and evidence of a violent struggle.

[00:36:08]The medical examiner would later determine that Travis had suffered an astonishing number of injuries.

[00:36:16]He had been stabbed dozens of times.

[00:36:19]His throat had been slashed from ear to ear, severing major blood vessels.

[00:36:26]and he has sustained a gunshot wound to the head.

[00:36:31]The order in which those injuries occurred would become a major issue at trial. But investigators agreed on one thing from the very beginning. This was not a robbery.

[00:36:43]This was an intensely violent, deeply personal attack.

[00:36:51]There was no sign that valuables had been taken and there was no indication of forced entry.

[00:36:59]Now, how can investigators tell if it was a personal attack, a crime of passion versus random?

[00:37:11]Well, let me tell you, there's a lot of energy that goes in to stabbing someone dozens of times and cutting their throat. A random act of violence, a random crime, they don't put that much energy into it. They want to get in and get out.

[00:37:29]When you have that much energy going into a murder, somebody's venting.

[00:37:38]Somebody is getting out a lot of pain, a lot of anger, a lot of hatred.

[00:37:48]As investigators processed the house, they collected blood evidence from multiple locations, fingerprints, palm prints, DNA, and they noticed something unusual.

[00:38:00]The digital camera had been left behind inside the home's washing machine.

[00:38:07]It appeared someone had attempted to wash it, perhaps believing the water would destroy its contents, but the camera's memory card survived.

[00:38:18]Forensic technicians recovered hundreds hundreds of photographs from that damaged memory card, and what they found dramatically changed the course of the investigation.

[00:38:32]The photos documented Travis alive on the day he died, posing casually around the house and later in the bathroom.

[00:38:44]The timestamps established that he had been alive that afternoon. Even more startling were a series of accidental photos taken just minutes later.

[00:38:54]Those images appeared to capture portions of the attack itself and moments afterwards what investigators believe was Travis's body lying motionless on the bathroom floor.

[00:39:09]It was one of the rarest pieces of evidence detectives had ever encountered. A homicide partially documented by the killer's own camera.

[00:39:22]Investigators quickly identified the woman behind the camera.

[00:39:28]Jodie Aras appeared in several photographs recovered from the memory card. The photos of her were seductive and sexual in nature as she stared at the camera posing with pigtails.

[00:39:45]Suddenly, the victim's former girlfriend became someone detectives urgently needed to speak with.

[00:39:53]Now, you've got to be asking yourself, what would possess a killer to take photos of their crime scene?

[00:40:03]Especially if she knew she was just going to destroy it, why wouldn't she keep it?

[00:40:14]Wh why take the photo?

[00:40:19]Well, when investigators first contacted Jod, she appeared composed, sympathetic, and eager to help. She spoke fondly of Travis, expressed shock that someone, anyone, could have killed him.

[00:40:38]During those initial conversations, she insisted she had not seen Travis in months and said she had no idea who could have wanted him dead.

[00:40:53]Now, these detectives listened carefully, saying little about the evidence they had already uncovered. And as investigators continued piecing together his final days, Jod's account became increasingly difficult to reconcile with the facts. Phone records, travel records, witness statements, and forensic evidence began placing her movements under intense scrutiny.

[00:41:16]Piece by piece, the timeline investigators were building looked very different from the one Jod had described.

[00:41:24]Then they confronted her with the evidence she didn't know they had. the camera timestamps on the photographs placed her inside Alexander's house on the day he was killed.

[00:41:37]Those images not only showed she had been there, they showed she had been taking photographs of him only minutes before investigators believed the attack began.

[00:41:50]Faced with proof that contradicted her original account, Jod abandoned her first story.

[00:41:56]Well, she she had no choice.

[00:41:58]She now admitted she had been at his house, but claimed that while they were together, two masked intruders suddenly entered the home and attacked him.

[00:42:08]According to Jod, the strangers murdered Travis, spared her life, and threatened to kill her and her family if she ever told anyone what she had seen.

[00:42:21]Terrified, she claimed, she fled the scene and remained silent for months.

[00:42:32]Well, this was as incredible to investigators. The explanation raised more questions than it answered. There was no evidence that anyone else had entered the home.

[00:42:43]There was no forced entry, no physical evidence supporting the existence of two mysterious ninja-like attackers.

[00:42:51]Just as troubling, Jod admitted she never called 911, never warned Travis's friends or family, and never told law enforcement about the supposed killers.

[00:43:02]Experienced detectives know that innocent witnesses don't generally have to keep reinventing their stories.

[00:43:10]And as detectives confronted Jodie with one piece of evidence after another, her story would change repeatedly. Well, what about this? Oh, well, here's another piece of the story. Well, all right, but then what about this? Oh, well, okay, here's some more story.

[00:43:24]It's tit for tat. As soon as they came up with, well, we know this. Well, then I'll tell you that. Well, I know this.

[00:43:30]Okay, well then she would just make it up. She goes along.

[00:43:35]What began as a simple denial would evolve into an entirely new set of explanations, each emerging only after they revealed evidence that made the previous version completely implausible.

[00:43:50]Her defense later said that she was in a blackout after being in an abusive relationship, but the fact that she had changed her story several times certainly indicated she knew what she had done was wrong.

[00:44:04]If she was in a blackout, and didn't know what had happened, didn't know that anything wrong had been done, then why was she hiding it?

[00:44:17]If you blacked out, then you didn't remember what happened. There would be no purpose in lying.

[00:44:23]It just none of it added up at all.

[00:44:27]less said the better, but she just kept changing her accounts against a growing body of forensic evidence and and they became increasingly convinced they were no longer speaking to a witness trying to help solve a murder. They were confronting the person that they believed had committed it.

[00:44:48]Jodi Aras had gone from grieving ex-girlfriend to the prime suspect in one of Arizona's most notorious homicide convictions.

[00:44:59]And my team was about to meet with her behind bars.

[00:45:06]They were about to sit down with her and hear what she had to say.

[00:45:12]And she had a lot to say. And you're going to hear what all of that was about on the next episode of Mystery and Murder Analysis by Dr. Phil.

[00:45:26]You're going to love it.

[00:45:29]Be sure and subscribe so you never miss an episode on YouTube and listen wherever you get your podcast.

[00:45:37]More about this story next time.

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