A Tale of Two Africas: Arsenal's Diaspora Joy vs. South Africa's Afrophobia Shame

追加: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]it. I think we have to be honest with each other. This is a colonial leftover.

[00:00:03]We might love it. We might enjoy it. We might live for the game, breathe for the game, but I'm I'm out here shouting North London forever. It's colonialization.

[00:00:32]Welcome to this week's edition of the Bad Natives podcast. Um Charles Obo in Nairobi uh anchoring the eastern side of things.

[00:00:45]>> I am North London Forever Lagos Nigeria.

[00:00:54]You can call me champion for now forever.

[00:01:00]>> Champion. I'm FG in Johannesburg.

[00:01:05]>> And I am Robert Khena in a campala that has gone completely bonkers. Every single part of downtown is in an arsenal jersey. People are carrying goats. There is a procession. Police doesn't know what to do with these guys. People are demanding for his man parliament for Arsenal supporters. So but guys I think I think I think I think we can't just kept talking about this.

[00:01:33]Let us we'll talk we'll talk as we'll talk the meaning of it. We'll go to you know South Africa uh examine the prospects of comrade Shir Ramaposa and uh try and find out what South Africans have against a man keeping his money in his sofa. But uh but uh but but let's talk football. You know this thing you are saying Bob it's it's yeah >> just it's just incredible uh what has happened. you you you know I was uh uh you have presidents in Africa sending congratulation William Ragam of course they have this long relationship you have celebrations broke out all over Africa there was a very very big one in Nigeria in a town called and uh people are demanding holidays uh you know I think in Botswana There was a notice put out that was a public holiday on Friday. The government had to respond and say it was fake. The guys in Malawi have asked for a holiday. But but some of the data is really So for example, I was I was seeing that it was the game was watched by 450 million viewers.

[00:02:53]>> Yeah.

[00:02:54]>> Across international networks.

[00:02:57]uh Aseno which had 113 million combined followers across mainstream social media. It added 2.5 million in the first 48 hours of this the the private because asen is not listed so it's it's a privately held company the owners it's it valuation climbed to 3.5 billion what is happening why you know let us leave the global thing why was this thing so important in Africa but for the club itself you are the and Bob you are the partisans And so we'll let you people talk but go first.

[00:03:40]>> I think three things. F first of all the previous reputation of Arsenal was built on the heroism of one African player called Cano.

[00:03:57]and and I think Kanu came from not I think Kanu did come from the 1994 Nigeria uh team that exploded onto the world scene and introduced African footballers and since then um you have Africans at the center of Arsenal's uh footballing greatness. Now in this particular season, if there is one person who has defined the the the footballing uh recovery of Arsenal, it's Bukayosaka who is Nigerian.

[00:04:34]And if you throw in uh Eberi and Madu, you have a solid African trio of players who are who who are on the world stage. And I think Charles what why this has such a great appeal in Africa is that it is in football where Africans see themselves shining as you know for their effort and their merit and and they're celebrated internationally. In fact, one of the most interesting interviews that came out of the UK was Radcliffe when know the guy who now runs or owns Man United when he talked about how Britain has become a nation of immigrants. They wrong people. His team is full of immigrants. They're the ones who are making giving footballing glory. So I think what Charles what that does is it sends a signal to young people on the African continent that you can become uh it is that there is hope there is possibility to achieve at the highest level even if you are African and I think in a sense it's even been said that a lot of that the premiership and European football is what drives immigration of young people because they all feel that they can go to those places and win and succeed. So that's why Arsenal in particular has a very powerful appeal and the British league or the English Premier League has a powerful appeal because many of its players are Africans. If you look at the other leagues, they really just have a scattering of Africans. They have Latin Americans and so and then also what's interesting is even if the person is from Latin America, they have tended to be African in in in appearance. you know, if you're talking about the Kamovingas, if you're talking about, you know, the guys who play. So, when guys are watching TV, they don't see a Brazilian. They don't see an Argentinian or or or whatever or Frenchman. They see Africans. And these young people go to these betting shops. It's not the money that takes them. It is the hope. It is the belief of what can happen. And I think Arsenal first of all in being what it is but also in believing in themselves that they could do this after 22 years. Everybody's personal and private hopes were this Arsenal has to win maybe to convince me that in my private trials I can also win and prevail. So that's the >> just just tell her you know you know one of the things I've noticed um you know in Nigeria and uh and uh and South South Africa in the last kind of like five six years you have this new generation of very very outspoken female uh sports commentators and reporters very you know in a very very uh and you know they bring it you know a lot of gusto and all these things. So from from just the social base of the game um you know and and of course what it means uh you know for for Nigerians as a global participation program it's huge. So how was it in Nigeria then when when the Ghana took this thing? Were you able to contain yourself at the SW or you went totally bonkers?

[00:08:07]>> I was able to contain myself, but my brother tore a scream so loud my mom thought we were under attack.

[00:08:18]Serious I didn't actually realize how emotional that I would be um for Arsenal to win if the invincible squad when we won last I was 10. I was 10 years old.

[00:08:32]>> What?

[00:08:34]>> What?

[00:08:36]>> Um, so I and I think, you know, because we've been talking about this in with my friends, we've been speaking about the teams that we support. Um, because for example, my dad is a Newcastle supporter, which is really odd. Um, a lot of men in his gener, it's odd.

[00:08:56]Newcastle really. um like Yan Edman but that's where he found himself but a lot of men in our father's generation support Liverpool right because Liverpool was very successful when they were younger my father's generation so you know you and Bob's generation a lot of them a lot of them support Liverpool because Liverpool was quite successful and this is the premier league era and what Bob pointed to earlier with Canu Wo is very important is that 99 to 2004 era when he was in Arsenal because if you see when you see people my age it's it's also people say that Chelsea supporters only started existing in Nigeria 25 years ago right but you see when there is an influx of African or black players into a team um then you see some type of pickups or when the team becomes successful when people are young that's when you see people who sort of join and start supporting these teams. I am an Arsenal supporter because my older cousin was an Arsenal supporter and so it was by birthright. Um and you know so and we didn't follow our dad because he was not as cool as our older cousin and that's how I ended up in Ghana for life.

[00:10:14]But also we had Canua, we had Ti, we had we had Patrick Vieira. These are all apart from Henry who is French. These are all West African men that I'm naming who are part of this squad when I am >> in you know in primary school coming of age and so and these were my heroes right and so and to come back and see a bukayaka be you know and I gave him the he was my shout out a couple of weeks ago gives me it's it's a lot of pride in it and and it's easy to get invested um and I and I think It's a it's a financial win for these teams.

[00:10:59]You know, football, it's a team sport.

[00:11:01]It's a sport that you it's accessible to everyone. A lot of people play football without balls, right? You know, it's it's it's it's something that is ingrained in a lot of our identities.

[00:11:13]And so getting a team or having a a team to support in the English Premier League is it's a natural trajectory for the um for for us here on the continent primarily and especially because it's not language barrier like there's no really it's it's easily accessible. It's easy to understand and and and you know we have a history of the sport here. But Pharaoh the the the you know the scene in South Africa I mean I know the game is big because South Africa is kind of the place which convened these conversations about football partly as a result of of mult choice and all that but also uh south you know you know like many of these other countries in you know South Africa there's a lot of passion around the local soccer league or football league and and there I was you know I was you know looking at data which was saying that I think of the countries which send the fewest players in in the foreign leagues is south Africa because many of them earn almost comparable uh you know uh salaries. So was there you know the the same emotion. In fact, I remember, you know, one time I was with a friend of mine who when we're doing the tours of the, you know, the, you know, the back streets of Jawag and all this and for some reason he has he has many cars but he was driving a van and every other time he would stop and run and pull a sticker of of for for the football team in the area where we are going and put it on.

[00:13:02]And when we >> That's fabulous football team, you will pull it out and put another. So is do you see do do you see a difference or or or was there the same sentiment?

[00:13:18]>> So it's it's a little different here like you say people's first footballing identity will be whether they are uh chiefs or whether they are pirates or increasingly whether they are sundowns people. That's the club of Patrice Bzei.

[00:13:34]So that would be their first political identity. And then many of them obviously carry an English Premier League identity as well. I guess with um with white South Africans, their lineages being closer to to Britain, they would their first uh soccer football identity would be um one of the Premier League clubs. And then I'm not sure which of those are the most popular, but it's it's as big here. Um I suppose there wouldn't be a call for a national holiday. Um but it's quite sign it's quite significant as well. Although you will of course know from your times here is the derbies are our big uh gatherings.

[00:14:14]>> Uh Charles I wanted to drop in quickly just a sort of almost like a nostalgic thing that I wanted to say. You see it's not as if we Africans haven't been down this road with our own footballers. And the nostalgia is as follows. I remember as a young kid and my mother knew then in the times then with the media as poorly connected as we were. She was following teams like Asante Koto uh Enugu Rangers from West Africa. Uh there was the one of the craziest rivalries ever in the history of football in East Africa was actually between two teams. GMA here in Kenya and what used to be called Abaluya and it be I don't know why they changed it. It became AFC Leopards. I mean this thing these things were cults uh huge huge cults. Uh in Tanzania they had Yanga and Simba. In Uganda we had Express uh KCCA and Villa. Those things existed.

[00:15:24]what the Europeans and what we need to learn from from this is how the how smartly the Europeans have been able to convert this into a commercial success.

[00:15:35]I mean the numbers I'm looking at are somewhere in the range of 177 to almost 200 million pounds that Arsenal is going to add to its bank account.

[00:15:48]And yet here all you have is officials who are in charge of these games are busy uh just looking how to cream off money, steal and do what? By the way, Charles, I have I I was telling you what I have just done on X. So I might as well tell the bad natives that I have posted on X that in 2013 I expressed my wish to be president of the Federation of Ugandan Football Associations. I have said I'm still available for the task now. I am happy to stand >> because I think what that tells us what Arsenal's win is telling a lot of people is we're leaving money on the table. Why are our kids having to run to Europe just to make it we can do that here easily but our people are not thinking and I hope that the way Trump is treating us on uh the World Cup is going to teach us a lesson. You know they've given the players visas but they've not given the officials visas.

[00:16:51]So guess what Dr. Congo has done by the way Dr. Congo has put Lumumba as one of the players or something. So he got a visa he's going >> but but and you know and you know that's why you know let us take that point. You know in fact Bob there is this argument that uh there has been the critique that in some ways this fascination with the European league it is it is a kind of you know you know colonial hangover but there also people who are actually saying no there is African agency that the game has been recontextualized and has African fabrics and and if you think of it in that sense even if these our teams hadn't gone down the the drain. There is the school of argument which argued that this would have happened that football has become a very important diaspora diaspora organizing platform that you check our history you know either as slaves as immigrant you know as forced labor immigrants they you know the colonized people moved all over the world and all over the continent and that there is There is something about the running about the sport that kind of captures that migration and many ways the today we are settled and that those two opposing forces uh express themselves in sport and that irrespective of everything else you know you guys would still be crazy.

[00:18:32]the people in Illorin would still be screaming because of Aseno. Do you do you do you sense that there is something you know a little bit more because there is something almost visceral about this thing >> and uh and and you know just our own you know uh you know the limitations of some of our leagues. Okay, it explains part of it but fully but but surely not all of it does it.

[00:18:59]>> I think it explains most of it. I think we have to be honest with each other.

[00:19:03]This is a colonial leftover. We might love it. We might enjoy it. We might live for the game, breathe for the game.

[00:19:09]But I'm I'm out here shouting North London forever. It's colonialization.

[00:19:14]It is. But, you know, and and we we also have to see it in terms of what sports pick up in what areas, right? It's why you have cricket um in popular in certain um English colonies like India and Pakistan, Nigeria. was it was really limited to those who had a slightly more um money or class. So, it's not as popular, but it's still here. It's why you have rugby in in South Africa. And that's it's also partly why American football is only in America. Um you know, you have there there's something to say about team sports and sports and the way that it connects us and our our common humanity and our commonalities across nations, right? And that's why sports travel especially team sports um and it helps build camaraderie and build bridges across a people but I think we have to be honest about what the foundation thing the the foundation here is that it is a colonial say leftover of colonization and I don't believe there is any type of African element in the premier league I I I go against this idea that because we are participants or even active participants that we now have ownership we do not have ownership of teams. We do not have ownership of uh of of structure of any the parts of the structures most for the most part we don't have ownership of the income streams. Um so when we talk about oh there's an African element where are we are we talking about the players are we talking about the viewers because that has the less it has the least amount of infrastructural investment or ownership.

[00:20:56]Um I I I think Bob wants to disagree with >> I want to push back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:01]Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because >> Yeah. I I I would rather look to to the benefits rather than the ownership. I mean we don't own anything in the aviation. We don't own the technologies. We But these things have ways of delivering benefits to us. And I just wanted to >> have the infrastructure right if you look at Kenya Airways or Ethiopia Airways the hubs you have the infrastructure like I I'm saying if we look at the infrastructure >> what no I am saying we don't own these things we don't own for instance the technologies we're depending on like social media and so on but what I wanted to say is look to the benefits and I wanted to just sort of throw a few things in why this moment becomes important even for us and I'm just I I'll repeat so for instance you've got the happiest people today in Africa with Arsenal's win are the Randons. They invested in a campaign and and it's they're reaping from traffic uh in terms of their uh I think they call it mice uh events blah blah blah that thing. So they've developed >> their whole tourism sector around these kinds of positioning. But I I I wanted to uh to compare this moment with other moments like you see when when when Sawe breaks the human uh record uh of running in Sabu or when Toro of Botswana does that sprint or when Satisi leads the bookies to a major victory.

[00:22:40]You cannot underestimate the benefit in you because we can't even measure it of self-belief of people who are who live in very bad parts of the world. Now just imagine how many young people see themselves in SA and his rugby game. Uh how many young Africans see themselves as a Bukayo Saka? I think that I wouldn't discount those things simply because the club is owned by an American. I am okay with that. I don't want money.

[00:23:16]I I think I think maybe can I just clarify my point here because I'm not discounting those things at all. I think those things are important and I don't and I what I was saying is that they're not specific to football and they're not specific to women. I think they're specific to sports. Sports inspire children and inspire people about possibilities all the time. Um and and I think it's a sports specific thing and the arrow thing I agree but it's it's just it's it's ROI on on a marketing plan right I I think that when we think about the future we we need to think about having some type of ownership of infrastructure that benefits us some type of pipeline that actually comes back to the continent because otherwise I think we will take cosmetic wins >> let's fix our leagues let's fix our leagues Sarah you know speak to this I mean okay let us let us say okay you know you know we take up you know's point that it is about sport in general and and in that regard there is actually you know the most sport diverse country is South Africa you have bicycle races you know every other weekend you have marathons I I was reading the other there was some marathon that had taken a higher task. It is back. You have um you know basketball, you have of course uh football, you have cricket, you have all these things and uh and you even said that you know you made a statement which suggested that MPE might actually be his he has developed a political profile because of his club ownership.

[00:25:00]Do you actually think that as an organizing principle sports is very important or you can actually identify that this is it is impact in South Africa in this way?

[00:25:12]>> Huge.

[00:25:13]>> Yeah.

[00:25:14]>> Huge. Um it it gives identity and meaning far more than than politics does. Um and and Rwanda knows that very well. um and do and and exploits it so well and uh certainly in in South Africa it's um it's sport is what what gives people meaning and coherence the politics can be absolutely destabilizing and distressing but if your national teams are doing well um you can see an automatic lift in the country and in political fortunes um of people so so absolutely and and I also think it's a bridge builder. You know, this week I'm so I'm so terrified that Ghana is sending an airplane to fetch their nationals who who may feel afraid here.

[00:26:07]But at the same time, the Cape Town mayor held a big press conference with with Elliot uh who's coming to run the Cape Town Marathon at the weekend. So I think that if you want to undercut um afrophobia and if you want to talk about how we build bridges among countries across countries then then sport is is the way to go. H >> you need to have a a see us speaking out against afrophobia you in addition to your big companies and and then you begin to crack the crack the issue. Huh.

[00:26:46]But but so so let us stay there then let us stay in South Africa. Let us uh you know pivot uh to South Africa. What what is happening with this uh you know you know just explain in simple terms why the Ghanaians are sending planes to pick people from from uh from South Africa.

[00:27:12]>> Why? Oh. Um because the remember that it was the Ghanaian um mission year which put out a statement when those marches were starting warning its people to stay indoors. Um it then called the ambassador in Ghana for a meeting and then also raised it at the AU. So Ghana has has led the charge against South Africa's rising anti-immigrant um xenophobia or what we've called here afrophobia. And so now I think they're they're upping the ante. They're saying we're sending a plane and that plan that plane um has landed and perhaps takes off today. I mean we're monitoring to see how many people will get on it. Um, but I mean I I think it's it's a shocking moment and it's just it's just passing by. Huh?

[00:28:07]>> Bob, you are disappointed.

[00:28:10]>> Sorry.

[00:28:10]>> You are disappointed by these developments.

[00:28:14]>> I think more than beyond even before disappointment and I want to put a question to Fio. I want to understand who are the groups and what are the epicenters of these actions. Surely it can't be the whole of South Africa. What what what are these groups? Because you know you look at a video uh and there is this one guy dressed in whatever traditional skins of some animal and and he's talking big but how widespread who are these groups? what what gives them the political clout to have this effect and what are the pl what are the areas in other words which locations in South Africa is this an issue because we may also be painting the whole of South Africa with a brush that doesn't apply >> thank thank you thank you for for asking that so it's it's basically uh two organizations I think I told you it's it's led by these very telegenic beautiful young women who have found themselves without a political home and who see this issue as as I suppose how Georgia Maloney came to power as how any number of young right-wing politicians in Europe have made names for themselves. You climb on the anti-migration bandwagon, build your cred that way and then get into formal politics. They're powerful. they have access to the media and because there isn't a a good database for example in our newsrooms which can say this is our intra- African trade this is how many how many big companies are reliant on our continent um and also who are able to trace the history of South Africa and how solidarity in the region was able to secure freedom that kind of institutional memory doesn't really exist and then social media is its own old beast, own beast for spreading disinformation and hate. Uh when people are feeling like life's really hard, the petrol and diesel price is killing us.

[00:30:21]Food prices are going up. And what do you do? You blame migrant communities who like everywhere are are really good at business and are seem to be prospering more than locals.

[00:30:34]>> And what what is the mood in Nigeria?

[00:30:37]you know last uh the last time we spoke uh you know the MPs were getting very mil and they were talking of seizing South African businesses uh kicking them out has you haven't yet done what Ghana has done you're not sending planes is has spoken to to Rama >> I doubt has spoken to ra I don't think carum uh Nigerian said that they you know they did get a list of Nigerians who required um exit from South Africa but they also said they were not providing the plane.

[00:31:19]Uh so you know I I I don't know what to what can I tell you about Nigeria?

[00:31:24]They're focused on politics right now.

[00:31:26]So the MP, the senator who was saying that we should nationalize South Africa assets in Nigeria. He's a former union leader here in Nigeria. He's known to be quite militant in any ways. Um but he's also um trying to position himself as um an as a as an Senate President and the Senate President was taking a more neutral tone towards what was going on in South Africa. So that could also have been why he was so aggressive about his suggestions. Um, in in terms of general feeling, I can tell you that it's very odd for me as someone who has spent, you know, quite a lot of time in South Africa over the last couple of years. I remember like when I was in university, um, and we went to South Africa, the xenophobia was or afro because it was afrophobia, right? And there were only two of us in our whole group from my university who were African. And I think there were three of us who were black.

[00:32:40]>> But there were only two of us who were African. And I remember the afrophobia being something that my roommate and I cuz we were roommates at that time. She was Aritrian and Nigerian. I remember something that brought us to tears after visiting a church. Um, I think it was like a sanctuary. I'm not sure if it was Desmond Tutu or someone else, but a sanctuary for children whose parents had essentially been lynched in afrophobic attacks, those xenophobic attacks in South Africa. It was a very out of body experience. Um, and I remember thinking about how the what do you call it? Is it called tiring? When they used to put the tires around the necks during the apart I I was thinking about the transference of that type of violence, right?

[00:33:33]Violence that exists outside of the state structure um and the lack of real true healing, right, in that transition from aparate into postaparted. I was thinking about the transition of that type of violence into lynching of other Africans.

[00:33:51]um because I don't think anything exists in silos and I think these things can transfer in those type of ways. So if we're looking for Nigeria to provide any type of leadership for Africans, I think you guys should forget about it. It's election year. They don't they don't they they don't care. But I I it's been very odd to see the amount of vitrial on the internet. Um I see some of the things South Africans say about you know Nigeria other Africans a lot of it is go to your country fix your country um because your country is bad that you're here you know your economic immigrants which and and so they don't feel the same about white people or Chinese people because they feel they have come by choice and I think also South Africa has a functioning welfare state in a way that other African countries countries do not and because there is that there will exist an actual real pressure especially in this Yeah but I I yeah >> are scary I want to talk >> no they very I know >> no you >> you see that's what I want to I want to speak about right is >> what is our role then um I think you should precisely come back Um like last night I I went to uh the the R&B latitudes fair and the um artist the every every year they choose a a different country. Last year was Botswana and this year was Nigeria is is Nigeria turn. Fabulous art um tracing from the evolution it so the art on show goes from say the 30s all up to the modern day fabulous artists and the young man the curator of that section is a young South African Nigerian. um his dad is Nigerian, his mom is South African and he shows you this and for me we have to highlight this kind of in interaction. So it can be through sport, through art. I'm hoping to get him onto our show, but there's a man called Tebe Ecal Fang. You may know him. He's Mr. Mr. Brand Africa and he is he is angry and active about what's happening. He's just given an oped that we must run. But I don't think we can just settle into this ugliness. You have to insist that people speak out, tackle the social media um um platforms to ensure that they are um deleting the hate as they find it. Um but for for me it's it's it's you can easily say, "Oh, well that's just the way it is." But I I can't um let that go.

[00:36:49]Bob, are you disappointed in your answer?

[00:36:52]>> Uh, you know, do you think >> actually No, actually.

[00:36:56]>> Do you think he should be punished?

[00:36:58]>> No, I am not. And and I'll I'll explain why.

[00:37:03]>> Syrial was a local politician. He wasn't like the the the the Zumas or the Dumbbeckis who were internationalist in outlook and they they built they saw that what they used to call the ANC in exile the the ones who came back and formed the bulk of the first 20 years of South Africa's administration ser was a local boy he he emerged uh through the the trade union movement and whatever it is and I think that says a lot for the about the people who are now trying to run public affairs and and so uh it's not just Syri what Syrio I'm going to say this fio as you know I I did travel a lot uh to South Africa in the earlier parts of the 2000s and then even sent my children to school there >> but the I made one very shocking and startling discovery about the broad majority of South Africans was how insular and very little >> and very little they knew about Africa.

[00:38:16]They just they don't know.

[00:38:18]>> So the people who are rising today may not even remember that there was an international liberation movement towards uh giving them the South Africa that they have today. They they are these the guys these are what people anybody who was born first of all you have an insular society and anybody who was 2 years in 1994 are is now in their 30s they are not going to to to know what the rest of the world did now there is something else Charles I want to add we've been going on about this for years I think South Africa scored an own goal South Africa focused on restrict icting movement of Africans to South Africa and as a result of that Africans are seen as illegal immigrants when they could have been regular immigrants coming in and going.

[00:39:14]Now you can't know whether a European who arrives today from Europe and starts to do exactly what an Ethiopian is doing that is run a small shop he will not be seen as a an illegal immigrant. Why?

[00:39:28]because there's no requirement for him to apply to come to South Africa. But number two, because of the psychological damage that has been done to us Africans by colonization and all of this stuff, we are able to see Europeans, Asians as being superior to us. In fact, we're grateful that they even come to our place and yet many of them >> we have to challenge that, you know, that's why I think we need to be >> but sorry, I just wanted to ask >> writing in each other's media and so on.

[00:39:57]So Fio for us on the bad natives already we are executing that responsibility but I also wanted you to know for instance Uganda the number of guys coming to do comrades and coming to run the Cape Town Marathon and who did the two oceans in 2024 when I first did marathon when I first did the comrades marathon we were 25 in 2025 when I did it we were 42 now there are 71 coming for comrades They're even talking about chhattering the whole Uganda airline aircraft to take them straight to Davan.

[00:40:33]>> Now we are doing >> great.

[00:40:36]>> Yeah. I think that what needs to be done uh on the side of of of South Africa especially people like you Furio is if we can get even if we have to do this online for instance it would be good for the bad natives >> to have an event in South Africa even if it's digitally driven to talk about this issue to South African audience because it's when they see us and understand but that by the way the majority of us have stayed in our countries and we're living well. We have no interest in coming down.

[00:41:10]>> Then maybe they will rethink and uh and uh but also we can tell them about the banto migrations and why society needs to intermar to improve their pedigree you know otherwise you know when will South Africans be told uh if they don't intermar with Sudan.

[00:41:31]Yeah, that that's a good note to end the in fact let me tell you I you know friend uh studied uh vendor art you know you know what vendor art is and he the way he did it he he studied it as he layered it over migration patterns and then he just looked the parts of Africa which reproduced the same motifs you know you know which which reproduces the tradition. So he was able to draw this incredible map of how vendor art is actually tells you the story of one of the most complex migrations around Africa and and and you know so if stories like that could be told I think that you could get particularly the kind of newer um more kind of open-minded young people I think we would begin to have a new platform to talk but we need to begin closing this look you know let me ask you you know something then then you can give us your um parting shot.

[00:42:45]>> Uh the Randes decided that they should invite Arsenal for a meet up of African funds in how many >> they can't accommodate us.

[00:43:01]>> How many people do you think will show up in You know, you go go to meet Saka, wouldn't you?

[00:43:20]>> No, Charles. Do you know what I would go for? I would go for the fun. I think Kali would explode. I I I think the police would struggle with us.

[00:43:30]>> I know. Let's wrap it up at the show.

[00:43:35]Okay, let's wrap it up. It's currently primary season in Nigeria. It's election season and the ruling party is doing primaries for seats from the House of Representatives, the Senate, etc. Now, we are told that 70 to 80 members have lost their primaries. This comes after the mass defections into the ruling party.

[00:44:03]um they are bullying people out and when it's a member of the House of Representatives, you're like unlucky.

[00:44:10]But when it's a sitting governor, when a sitting governor bows out of his own primary for his second term, it gives reports Sim Fubara, who is the governor of River State, the oil rich state, has bowed out of his primary He it is said that the person who is going to be announced as the candidate is a man called okay Chinda Kingsy Chinder who was up until he picked up the form for this uh governorship role was a member of the opposition and in fact the minority leader of the house of representatives.

[00:45:02]the beauty that is Nigerian politics where the he is still the minority leader of the house of representatives but he he might by the end of today emerge as the candidate for the governor of river state for the ruling party disappoint >> um so so look gunners we didn't get to talk about the couch at the center of our politics. But before we'll get there, but just to say my parting shot is for the chief justice Mandisa Maya and her bench who made a judgment on on the 8th of May which is a fundamental repercussions um for South Africa and it's really a parting shot for our constitutional court which comes through for us again and again and again.

[00:46:04]Just two, two things for me. Number one, and I and I'm showing you that that's a conversation between me and my son after the Arsenal game. So my son, my son has been an avid supporter. He's 24. He's been an avid Arsenal supporter.

[00:46:25]has been consistently believing even when his cousins and his friends tried to dissuade him, tell him it might be a better option to try Man City, he said no. So I told him, "Man, I have prayed and prayed that you get to see what it means for Arsenal to win." He sent me a message back. He said, "Daddy, at least you got to see the Winga trophies. Me I have been waiting for a long time." The the boy the boy was ecstatic. So I am happy that my son feels good and can walk amongst his footballing friends and and and hold his head high. But there's a chilly one. Um I don't know if you guys me and Charles have been following but I don't know if you guys have been following the political drama in Uganda.

[00:47:06]So basically the speaker of parliament who has been an incredibly powerful and divisive figure has been shafted. Let me put it that way. But that's that's not the story, guys. The story that made my day is guys sent a message, online guys sent a message to Netflix. They said, "Guys, we're sorry. For the next two weeks, we're not subscribing because the drama in Uganda is here."

[00:47:38]They said, "Do you know what they say?

[00:47:40]Do you know what they're saying? I swear this should really I swear this should make your life laugh that things are happening so fast. Updates are coming in so fast and furious that people are sleeping in shifts just to avoid me.

[00:47:57]>> Yeah.

[00:47:59]Yeah. Over to you.

[00:48:01]>> Yeah. My uh my uh my passing shot one of the things I followed I'm sure you know you know you all did was the Trump visit to China.

[00:48:12]within and there are so many moments I go into but there's one little one which I caught you know um Trump you know Trump keeps changing his height depending dishonest fellow he keeps changing his height but whatever it is he is taller than >> you know and because he keeps changing his the difference varies but here's what the Chinese When when he was sitting with Trump, the two of them facing the media, >> the the Chinese tweaked the height of his chair.

[00:48:54]>> Yeah.

[00:48:56]He was slightly taller >> and he looked imperial >> so that his eye level would be slightly higher than >> and he would be looking down on Trump >> you know you have to admire people who pay attention to small detail like that >> detail >> detail >> the detail of democracy diplomacy not of democracy uh please you know Remember, you know, uh to, you know, to subscribe to follow us to on our other socials and uh you know, and when you subscribe, when uh when it drop, you are able to get it. Um and have all these wonderful people. I'm very happy to have a full house today and uh you guys, you're always wonderful and glad to have you. Thanks.

[00:49:51]>> All right.

[00:50:03]Heat. Hey, Heat.