Under California Civil Code 3342, dog walkers who assume responsibility for a dog are strictly liable for any injuries the dog causes, regardless of whether they are the dog's owner. This strict liability principle means that dog walkers can be held financially responsible for dog attacks even if they did not own the animal, as they have taken physical control and responsibility for the dog's behavior.
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[🅽🅴🆆] JUDY JUSTICE HD Season 4 💗💋💗 Episodes 9875 Best Amazing Cases Season 2024 Full Episode HD追加:
from a dog attack. [music] >> Court, come to order. All eyes.
>> Have a seat, please.
>> Case number 20002,Wam versus Lancaster.
>> Mr. Quan, succinctly, your case involves a attack of a dog that was being walked by Miss Lancaster. She was dog walker.
She didn't own the dog.
>> Correct.
>> Dog got away from her and according to you, attacked you, attacked your dog, and you want to be compensated to the tune of $10,000.
>> Correct.
>> You were neither hospitalized. Correct.
I was not hospitalized.
>> You were either hospitalized and your dog was not hospitalized.
>> Correct.
>> I assume that you have some medical evidence as a result of this incident to show me that you suffered from a dog bite.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. And the dog bite was from the dog that was being walked by Miss Lancaster.
>> Walked is I'm not sure if I would use the term.
>> She's a dog walker.
>> Yes. She's not the owner of the dog.
>> Correct. The incident happened at what date and time?
>> December 22nd, 2021 at approximately 1:30 p.m.
>> And you were walking your dog, which is what breed?
>> A 20 lb wiener dog mix.
>> And you were a dog walker. How long had you been in charge of walking this dog?
>> Um, at that point it was about a week.
>> What kind of dog was it?
>> Um, I believe it was a boxer mix. Not 100% sure.
>> How old?
>> Two, three years old, give or take.
>> Who are the owners of the dog? the owners. I can't remember their name. One of uh Mike, but I don't remember their last names. But >> you remember the owner's names?
>> Yes.
>> And it would be fair to say that you knew their names because you tried to sue them.
>> I contacted them. Yes. But did not sue them.
>> And you contacted them because they're the owners of the dog and they have a house.
>> Mhm.
>> Uhhuh. Is not an answer.
>> Yes.
>> And a house usually has homeowners insurance.
>> Correct.
>> Correct. And after contacting them and it's their dog, so they are ultimately responsible for their dog, you opted not to seek compensation for your alleged injuries and this attack, but to sue the dog walker.
>> Correct.
>> Just for my own information, Mr. Quan, do you want to tell me why you did that?
>> Yeah. So per California strict liability law, the anybody who takes physical ownership or responsibility for a dog is also responsible for any sort of attacks or damages it causes while they are uh responsible for that dog regardless.
>> Okay, just a sec. So what you're saying is in the state of California, if you are walking a dog, and she says she was walking this dog for a week, how many times a day? Every day?
>> Uh two times a day.
>> Twice a day. and she had this job for a week that under all circumstances she is responsible for [snorts] any injury that the dog does. Is that what you're saying?
>> Correct.
>> And what code is that?
>> I have a statute over here.
>> Just tell me the statute >> for California dog bite law. I don't have the number, but I can bring it up to the >> Would you bring it up to the court?
>> It's California Civil Code 3342.
>> You have Do you have it? I could pull it up. I have my notes.
>> Could you do Could you pull it up for me and I'll come back to you in a second, Sarah? I'm just curious about it. Okay.
Now, now let's tell me about the incident, sir.
>> Sure. So, at the time that I uh described earlier, I was walking my 20 pound wiener dog, Mix, while my mother walked um my infant son, who was three months at the time, >> in a stroller.
>> Okay.
>> I mean, it's not that I don't care about him and I don't care about your mother, but they have nothing to do with this case. Well, well, they do have something to do with this case because when we turned onto the block, I turned and I saw an off leash dog roughly three times the size of mine and I saw the defendant, Miss Lancaster. She gave no warning that the dog was off leash and at that point the I later learned that the dog >> No, don't tell me. Just tell me what happened, sir. Okay. You saw Miss Lancaster and she was walking this dog off leash.
>> Correct.
>> And >> she gave no indication.
>> No, no, no. Not that. She gave me no indication. She was walking this dog off leash. Correct. So you saw the dog off leash?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. And about how far were you from her when you saw the dog off leash?
>> Across the street. So roughly 40 ft.
>> Okay. And >> the dog charged across the street.
>> Okay. The dog ran across the street.
>> Yes. And started aggressively biting uh lunging and barking at my dog.
>> Okay. So at that point the dog is ran across the street and is in an aggressive stance barking at your dog.
>> Correct.
>> Hadn't touched your dog.
>> Correct.
>> Okay. What happened next?
>> It then diverted its attention towards my infant son in a stroller and my mother and started jumping on the stroller.
>> Did the dog in fact jump on the stroller?
>> Yes.
>> And >> and my response was to try to divert the attention.
>> What did you do? The dog jumped on the stroller. Didn't hurt your son. Didn't hurt your mother.
>> Yes. So, I got the attention of the dog again.
>> How did you do that?
>> By picking up my dog who was on leash.
>> Well, that doesn't necessarily get attention to the dog. You say, "Hey, hey, hey."
>> Correct.
>> Correct. Say that. You just picked up your dog.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Yes.
>> Probably exclaimed in >> No, no, no, no, no. I I >> of the dog.
>> You told me what you did. You picked up your dog and >> and started running across the street.
started running. Just a second. Started running across the street in the direction of where the dog had come from.
>> Correct.
>> And at that time the dog was on the other side of the street.
>> Yes.
>> So let me understand this. You pick up your dog. Your mother is standing behind you in the stroller with your son. You leave your mother your son on one side of the street and you grab your wiener dog mix and run across the street.
>> Correct. This was after I got the attention of the dog by the way.
>> Okay. So now you got the attention of the dog. Yes. Ran across the street. So you were trying to divert the dog's attention and the dog followed you.
>> Yes. It chased me.
>> Good. And you were running in her direction.
>> No. The Miss Lancaster had crossed the street at that point to where we were originally walking.
>> She was on your side of the street. You were going back to where you had initially seen her.
>> Correct.
>> Okay. So she had followed her dog across the street.
>> Yes.
>> Was she saying anything? We had repeated We made repeated please to ask for her to control the She was she ran across the street because all this happened within seconds. Yes, >> she ran across the street. Was she saying anything? She >> was She was yelling, "I'm so sorry and I can't do anything."
>> Okay. Is that what you were yelling?
>> Um I I think I was yelling, "I'm so sorry. I don't know what to do." Cuz I was in a extreme state of panic. I was probably having a panic attack.
>> I'm so sorry. I don't know what to do.
Okay. and >> and after I ran across the street when the dog chased me, I fell down. The dog ended up biting me on my left arm.
>> Okay. And I'd like to see whatever medical report you have from the bite on your left arm.
>> So the doctor said that >> No, don't tell me what the doctor said.
>> I have I have a picture. May I see a medical >> Did you understand my words?
>> I said, "May I see a medical report?"
>> I do not report.
>> So you didn't go to the doctor? I >> a question is did you go to the doctor, Mr. >> I did a virtual doctor's visit because this was during the height of the pandemic.
>> And what was the name of the doctor with whom you had a virtual visit?
>> I do not remember.
>> Should remember you're suing for $10,000. You should have all that information because if you have a virtual medical visit, Mr. Quan, there is a record of that. Doctor keeps a record of that. Do you understand?
>> Correct.
>> Okay. So now you're down and this happened according to you on December 22nd. Did you get the dog's information?
>> I did.
>> On December 22nd?
>> Yes.
>> When did you speak to the owners of the dog?
>> I spoke to the owners actually that day because I wanted to get the uh rabies vaccination paperwork.
>> Did you get the rabies vaccination paperwork?
>> Yes.
>> On the 22nd.
>> Yes.
>> Now I'll see you photographed, sir. I have that statute whenever you're ready.
>> I got time use everything.
>> Sarah grins at Judge Judy. Kevin hands Judy a photo of a leg with contusions on it. She dons her glasses, then examines it.
>> Okay. So, the knee injury is when you fell.
>> Correct. And the arm is a combination scratch and maybe tooth mark.
>> Yes, there are tooth marks on there, but not punctures.
>> I don't know. This long thing is not a tooth mark. So, just one other question, Mr. Juan, when you told the owners about this on the 22nd, when was the next time you contacted them? First, you wanted to find out whether or not the dog had received raots. You were satisfied that it did, that you didn't have to see a doctor other than a virtual visit with a doctor whose name you don't remember.
When did you decide not to sue the owners of the dog who were homeowners, have homeowners insurance?
>> Yep. I wrote the owners of the dog a demand letter and that is when I contacted them back probably about two months after the incident.
>> Okay. So, you wrote them a demand letter.
>> Correct.
>> And did they respond to your demand letter?
>> Yes.
>> Do you have copies of those letters?
>> Yes, I do.
>> I'd like to see copies of your letter and their response.
>> Derek hands a document to Kevin who brings it to Judy.
>> That's the demand letter that I >> I just want to see copies of your letter and their response. Are they both here?
>> They did. They only resp they responded by calling me on the phone, not with a formal >> uh written statement.
>> Really?
>> Caption coming up.
>> Through a series of conversations, I decided that my grievance was not towards them because [music] they were not exhibiting negligence in this situation.
>> Oh, no. I don't believe that, Mr. K. Be very careful about what you [music] say to me, sir.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Derek and Danielle.
>> Derek Juan claims dog walker Danielle Lancaster owes for injuries resulting from a dog attack.
>> Okay. Well, you say the dog's a pitbull.
The dog was a pitbull, >> I believe. So, >> dog a pitbull?
>> Um, I asked after the incident. I did ask as well if it was a pitbull. They said no. It's a boxer mix.
>> You have a video of the incident. You have a video. Somebody has a video.
Correct.
>> Someone's ringing camera.
>> Okay. I'm going to allow you to tell me what the owner said in the conversation that they had with you. I'm not accepting it for the truth of the statement, only that you had a conversation with them, which is why you brought this action against Miss Lancaster today.
>> Correct.
>> So, they decided, we're not going to put this in writing. We're going to call Mr. Quan.
>> Correct. And what did they tell you?
>> They were very amicable about the situation and we're trying to solve the situation to make me whole.
>> Being amicable is subjective. Mhm.
>> I want you to tell me what you said to them and what they said to you.
>> What they said to me was that they would look into their homeowner's insurance policy in order to compensate me.
Through a series of conversations, I decided that my grievance was not towards them because they were not exhibiting negligence in this situation.
>> Oh, no. I don't believe that. Mr. Quin, be very careful about what you say to me, sir. as between homeowners who have insurance and this young woman who has to walk dogs for a living. If I were somebody interested in $17,000, I wouldn't sue her. I would sue somebody who had Kathy Bates said in one of my favorite movies, I'm older and I have more insurance.
So that answer that you just gave me was a whole lot of who shot John. The reason you decided not to proceed against the dog's owners is what?
>> The the reason why I proceeded not to go against the dog's owners is because I have a um because some things are more important than money. And in this situation, I have more of an issue with the dog walker and her behavior during this situation rather than being compensated.
>> Well, let me suggest this to you, Mr. Quan. There is no question that if Miss Lancaster was walking this dog and the dog was off leash, she was negligent.
There's also no question in my mind that the extent of your damages is excessive.
Very excessive. So, >> but but we're only counting physical damages.
>> Just a second. What I'm telling you is the amount of your damages is excessive.
And if you wanted anywhere near that money, you could have sued both people.
You could have sued the owner of the dog as not only did they have the dog that attacked you, but they have, as Kathy Bates would say, insurance, and you would join the defendant as a party to that action. You would say, you're all responsible. You own the dog, which you say was a pitbull, which you say was a pitbull who just mauled and killed somebody in New York last week, an owner. You didn't do that. So I'm not getting all of this kumbaya business that the person responsible. Do you understand? I'm just not buying it, Mr. Quant. We understand each other.
>> Yes, absolutely. For somebody who has no medic, you had injuries and you have to be compensated. You had no good excuse for walking the dog off leash.
>> I wasn't walking him off leash. Um the h when I was in the house happened, I had a key on the other side of the door.
When I reached for that key, he scooted as hard as I could between my legs and got out. It wasn't that I was walking him and just decided to take him off.
>> So, you were negligent of letting the dog out, >> unfortunately. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> But the dog had also been out for an hour at the time of the incident.
>> Yeah. Because when I was trying to get him back in, um, but many attempts. Um, he was very hard to get in and at that point I was already having a panic attack. Very emotal.
>> No, no, no, no, no, [laughter] no, no, no. Miss Lancaster, let's get it together.
>> Let's get it together. Mr. Quan says that the dog was out for a period of time and you weren't chasing the dog when he first saw you. You were in a walking mode. So, the dog may have initially gotten out. Miss Lanka, don't you know I'm an ecumenical abuser?
>> Were you out with the dog for a period of time?
>> Yes.
>> Did you have a leash in your hand?
>> Uh, I think >> is not an answer. Did you have a leash in your hand? No.
>> How long were you out with the dog?
>> Probably around an hour at that point.
>> Okay.
>> I was trying to get him back in and twice I did have him by the collar and he did what?
>> You didn't have him by the collar when he ran across the street.
>> No, but before then I >> I don't care. But happened before then.
Before then I was 21 years old and I looked great in a bikini. Now not so much.
>> All right, Mr. Quan. This letter was written to Miss Lancaster.
>> Correct. I asked you for the letter that you wrote to the owners of the dog.
>> I do not have that with me right now.
>> Could we key up this video that I understand we have?
>> Video footage appears of a dog chasing Derek.
>> So sorry.
I'm so sorry.
>> The dog attacks him. HE FALLS.
>> I'M SO SORRY. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
>> You can see my mother AND INFANT SON.
I AM SO SORRY.
>> CALL THE PERSON NOW. HE BIT ME.
>> I KNOW. I WILL CUZ HE BIT ME TOO. I KNOW.
>> JUST GRAB HIM BY THE NECK.
>> I CAN'T. I HE BIT ME TWICE ON MY HAND ALREADY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. It's been AN HOUR. I SERIOUSLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
>> He bit me twice already. AND I TRIED TO GET HIM ON THE LEASH AND HE BIT ME TWICE. I don't know what to do.
>> It's a leash.
>> I am so sorry.
I am so sorry.
>> Can I see the beginning of that and see if you can freeze frame on the dog, please? By the way, you do have a leash in your hand.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I just realized. Yeah, I do have the leash, actually. So, >> I'm going to walk over to the monitor.
>> Judy rises from the bench and approaches the video monitor.
She examines the freeze frame of the dog, then returns to the bench.
So although the statute uses the word owner, there's vicarious liability if someone else assumed responsibility of the dog. Even though the statute is clear, it only lists the word owner. But in California, they could be held liable through vicarious liability. A walker.
>> A walker >> that assumed responsibility for the animal.
>> Okay.
>> Caption coming up.
>> He neither suffered serious physical injury. Certainly not serious enough for him not to go to work for a week. Unless you model Bermuda shorts. You don't model Bermuda shorts, do you, Mr. Quan?
>> Just in my spare time, of course.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Derek and Danielle.
Derek Juan says dog walker Danielle Lancaster owes for damages after he was attacked by the dog Danielle was walking.
>> Okay. So, Miss Lancaster, it does appear to me that you were sort of overwhelmed by this dog.
>> Yes.
>> But very much.
>> Bottom line is that Mr. Quan was injured and frightened. Not seriously injured, but seriously enough that if it were me, I would be furious as a result of your negligence. And he neither suffered serious physical injury. Certainly not serious enough for him not to go to work for a week. I don't know what kind of work you do, but not serious enough unless you I don't know. Unless you model Bermuda shorts. You don't model Bermuda shorts, do you, Mr. Quan?
>> Just in my spare time.
>> Of course not.
>> And you had no medical bills because you didn't see a doctor. But you were attacked. And I actually don't know why you didn't sue the owners of this dog, which looks scarcely like any boxer I've ever seen. And it is possible in California that certain dogs are not insurable. I don't know the answer to that question. Will not insure you in a homeowner's policy if you have a certain kind of dog. Are you familiar with that, sir?
>> Yes.
>> What are you familiar with? You're very familiar with statutes. So, what is the law in California with regard to insurance? Can you be denied insurance or have to pay an excess premium if you have a dog that is either a pitbull or a pitbull mix?
>> I believe so.
>> You believe so? And would it be a fair statement, sir, that their homeowners either covered their dog or didn't?
>> They were looking into it and they had renters's insurance that I believe um covered it >> that you believe covered it. Oh, very foolish of you not to go against them.
Okay. If you accept responsibility for a dog, supposed to be smart enough to look at a dog and say, "You know what? Why would you ask what kind of dog this is?"
Now, you let the dog out and the dog was out with you for an hour.
>> For an hour?
>> Yes. Yeah. And during that time, you were walking around the neighborhood and you had sufficient opportunity. You were walking around the neighborhood.
>> I wouldn't say walking. I was clearly trying to get the dog back in. And twice I did have him by the collar. And that's what I said in the video. I had him by the collar and then both times he turned to to nip at me on on my wrist. So which is why I let go because >> I didn't want to get bit.
>> I know you said it.
>> So I was trying to have him follow me, which is what the owners told me to do.
I had treats in my owners. Yes, I did call the >> You said to You called the owners and you told the owners what was going on.
>> Yes, I did. They knew what was going on.
>> I would have sued the owners, Mr. Quan.
I would have absolutely sued the owners unless they didn't have insurance that covered the dog, which is a problem for them if they had renters insurance. In any event, Miss Lancaster, you assumed responsibility of this dog and based upon your own negligence, your negligence, forget about the dog's breed, forget about the these other people. As a result of your negligence, he was injured and you have to compensate him for that. Judge him for the plaintiff in the amount of $5,000.
We're finished.
>> Court is ajourned.
>> Outside the courtroom, Danielle then Derek, >> I don't think he even got bit.
>> The doctor said that most of my injuries were emotional, but I did receive a bite from the dog onto my arm, but not a puncture wound.
>> I think he just, you know, wanted some extra cash for me because I was probably an easier target. Even though I didn't have any physical injuries, [music] who knows how long my night terrors will last for.
>> I was literally having the whole panic attack, which is why, you know, I had the reaction I did.
>> Yeah, I totally understand that. But the dog was off leash for an hour. [music] She could have called the police or animal control during that time.
>> Don't open the door even in the slightest to a dog. Just wait till you know they're away and gone.
>> Mostly my MO is getting back at those that I have grievances against. Judy and Sarah, >> let's not even get started with dog breed because I think the world knows where I live in that street.
>> And 10 days ago, a woman who was watching a pitbull for one of her children, 64 year old woman, her husband came home from work and found the dog eating her in the backyard. Sadly, she died. And there are certain breeds that are more dangerous than others. People have to recognize that. And if you choose to get a dog that is potentially more dangerous, Sarah, you know, and I know that there are pitbull lovers out there and say, "Mine is the sweetest, mine is love." But then you have to accept responsibility if there's an issue. And clearly this dog was an issue because I believe this young woman.
>> Didn't you believe her?
>> I believed her. And I think that dog walkers should also be cautious of what animals they're choosing to walk because she could be held vicariously liable. So you might want to stick to five pound chihuahua from now on maybe.
>> Right. I mean she was visibly very upset visibly. And she said on the video he bit me twice on the hand cuz she tried to get a hold of him.
>> But she was still out with the dog for an hour but he was in fact injured.
>> And whether he went to the hospital or not that's pretty >> old Jennifer Santiago for medical bills after being hit by a car.
>> Court come to order. All rise.
>> Have a seat please. Judge Judy takes her seat behind the bench.
>> Case number 2020, Hildrith of Mahassan versus South.
>> Thank you.
>> Miss Hilddrth.
>> Yes.
>> Pronounce your last name for me, sir.
>> Mahasani.
>> Mahasan.
>> Yes.
>> You two were crossing the street in San Diego >> in Carl'sbad Village.
>> Is that in San Diego?
>> It is. It's a suburb of San Diego.
>> Is that where you live?
>> Correct. In Carl'sbad.
>> And you were hit by Miss Santiago who was driving her mother's car.
>> Correct. Miss Santiago acknowledges that she hit you and you were seriously injured. You've had shoulder surgery.
You were both injured.
>> Correct.
>> When did this happen?
>> This happened on Friday, September 4th, 2020.
>> I just have a couple of preliminary questions before I get into the facts of it.
>> Sure. I assume that since this accident happened in 2020 that you tried to sue either the defendant and or her mother as the car's owner.
>> Well, uh we would have done so, but the driver was uninsured.
>> That's that's the question. You would have done so except the mother had no insurance. It is my knowledge that the mother had insurance but that the in which I have the evidence that her daughter was excluded from the policy.
>> The policy and therefore the insurance company disclaimed.
>> Correct.
>> I'd like to see that.
>> Absolutely.
>> That's why your mother's not here.
>> No, you're mother's not here, Miss Santiago. without her knowing.
>> Miss Santiago, that's why your mother's not here.
>> No.
>> Well, >> Judy glares at Jennifer.
>> Were you excluded from the insurance policy? That's either a yes or a no.
>> Yes.
>> Then you shouldn't have been driving the car.
>> Yeah, I know.
>> Just a second. Then you shouldn't have been driving the car.
>> I took the car.
>> I don't want to hear some I don't want to hear some pat answer from you. Do you understand? That's why your mother's not here.
>> Well, I was >> I didn't ask you a question. I didn't.
Do you understand? They don't listen to you when I'm speaking. When I ask you a question, you'll answer me.
>> I don't want to hear some pat answer. I want to hear a lot of I'm sorry.
I want to hear a lot of I'm sorry.
>> Why would I say I'm sorry if they didn't pay attention when they were crashing?
>> You weren't supposed to be behind the wheel of a car. Well, I was paying attention.
>> You weren't supposed to be behind the wheel of a car.
>> But why they didn't pay attention?
>> I I'm not speaking to you. I just told you. Why? Why should I say I'm sorry?
>> Be quiet. Why should I say I'm sorry if they weren't paying attention? Because you weren't supposed to be behind the wheel of a car. If you weren't behind the wheel of a car, whether they were paying attention or not would be irrelevant. You weren't supposed to be driving. She thinks you have a big mouth. You don't have a bigger mouth than me, madam. I guarantee you. I guarantee you. The last person who drove yesterday that wasn't supposed to drive yesterday because they were drunk killed.
Nobody's listening to you when I'm speaking. Nobody's listening to you.
>> Killed six people. Last person who drove that wasn't supposed to be behind the wheel of a car killed six people. You were not drunk. I'm speaking. You were not supposed to be behind the wheel of a car. Don't you understand that?
>> I understand.
>> Are you stupid?
>> You were not supposed to be behind the wheel of a car. You were an excluded driver. And you were an excluded driver for a reason.
>> Not only that, you're >> Now, just a second. Don't speak. Now, I'm going to read and calm myself down.
I don't like my blood pressure to get too high. I just don't like stupid.
>> Whitney and Sarah smirk. Judy consults a document.
>> Our investigation, which is after you notified the insurance company, >> determined that the driver of the insurance car, Jennifer Ramirez, was not covered by the policy.
>> That's what you told me.
>> Correct.
>> I don't understand this. You were walking, correct? Correct. Both.
>> What is this? Your driving privileges will be suspended on November 21st. What is that?
>> I think there was a misunderstanding that we were actually driving a vehicle >> and when I called the DMV and I explained that no, we're actually pedestrians. Then they said, "Oh, I'm sorry. Disregard that."
>> Yeah. Stupid. And it's >> Do you have a letter from them indicating that this is wrong?
>> They just told me that we can disregard it and they just corrected it. That's all they did. And it it was stopped because because she was also unlicensed.
>> Just a second. I'm not there yet.
>> Okay.
>> I'm not there with Big Mouth.
>> Okay. This happened on September 4th, 2020. What time of the day?
>> It was in the evening. It was about 8:00 p.m.
>> It was Yeah. around 8:00.
>> Light or dark outside?
>> Dark.
>> Is that a fair and accurate representation of the intersection where this happened? It is your honor.
>> Miss Santiago, is that a fair and accurate representation of the intersection where this happened?
>> Yes.
>> So, at the intersection where this happened, there were lines across the highway indicating pedestrian walkway.
>> Correct.
>> And there were two signs indicating pedestrian walkway.
>> There were three signs, one in the center median and one on each side.
>> On September 4th, Miss Santiago, this requires a yes or a no answer from you.
On September the 4th, 2020, did you have a valid driver's license?
>> Caption coming up.
>> What happened when she hit Don't Hey, >> don't speak. Listen, for someone who can't take [music] and pass a driver's test three times at least, I would keep my mouth shut.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in [music] the courtroom. Lisa, Reza, and Jennifer.
>> Lisa Hilddrth and Reza Mahasan claimed 20-year-old Jennifer Santiago struck them in a crosswalk while she was driving without [music] a license.
Jennifer says they were not paying attention and walked into oncoming traffic.
>> Now, on September 4th, Miss Santiago, this requires a yes or a no answer from you. On September the 4th, 2020, did you have a valid driver's license?
I didn't, your honor.
>> I said it's either a yes or a no. Did you have a valid driver's license?
>> No.
>> Did you ever have a valid driver's license?
>> No.
>> Do you have a valid driver's license today?
>> No, your honor. Castic.
>> Just that's a no. What's your name?
>> Vanessa.
>> What?
>> Guiles.
>> Stand up.
>> Vanessa rises.
>> Did you come with her today?
>> Yes.
>> How did you get here? I drove uh my license.
>> Just a sec. You drove?
>> Yes.
>> And whose car?
>> My car.
>> What kind of car is it?
>> Kia.
>> Did you ever drive with Miss Santiago?
>> Uh yes.
>> When?
>> Sep.
>> Did you ever drive in a car where she was the driver and you were the passenger?
>> Yes.
>> When?
>> September 4th, 2020. Two years.
>> Other than September 4th, 2020. Did you ever drive with Miss Santiago where you were the passenger?
>> Yes. When?
>> September 4th.
>> I said other than September 4th.
>> Other than September 4th.
>> Other than that, no.
>> On September 4th at 700 p.m. 700 p.m.
Where were you?
>> We were at the beach. Carl's bad beach.
>> You were at the beach. Who else was at the beach?
>> Santiago. And another friend. He's a minor. He's 16.
>> There were three of you at the beach.
>> Anybody else that you knew at the beach?
>> How long had you been at the beach? like for an hour.
>> So you got there at 6:00 in the evening?
>> We got there at 7:00. We were going back home at 8.
>> So you got to the beach at 7:00. What did you do at the beach at 7:00?
>> We were just sitting there eating, relaxing, having a good time as teenagers that we were.
>> Now, did Miss Santiago pick you up or did you meet at her house? Just think, take a breath. Did you meet at her house or did Miss Santiago pick you up? Uh, she picked me up.
>> How far do you live from her?
>> 2 minutes away.
>> And what about the 16-year-old minor?
>> 3 minutes away.
>> Did she pick up the 16-year-old minor?
>> Yes.
>> How old was Miss Santiago in September of 2020?
>> 18.
>> Are you a good friend of hers?
>> Uh, yes, I am.
>> You knew she didn't have a driver's license?
>> Yes.
>> Did you know why she didn't have a driver's license?
>> Uh, she was still studying for a test.
>> Had she taken the test before?
>> Yes. Yes, she had taken the test before, >> do you remember how many times?
>> Yes.
>> How many times did she take the test?
>> Two times.
>> And the two times she took the test, she failed it.
>> Yes, she did.
>> Okay. So, now she's driving without a license because she's failed her driving test twice at the time of this. So, she's studying to pass it, maybe for the third time, >> right?
>> Yes.
>> And now we have two years later, she still doesn't have a driver's license.
>> Yes. Do you know why?
>> No.
>> Well, you're her good friend. Didn't you ask her? Well, it's 2 years later. Did you ever pass your driving test?
>> She hasn't yet.
>> Sit.
>> Vanessa sits.
>> Now, tell me what happened at 8:00 on the 4th of September, 2020.
>> I have pictures if you like. And would it be okay to approach the screen to show you better?
>> No, it's not necessary. You were crossing the street in a crosswalk. She hit you.
>> Correct. We were you crossing the street in a crosswalk and she hit you.
>> Yeah. So, we had come to the crosswalk sign on the left side of the photo. We pressed the button. It illuminated the flashing lights to indicate that it was okay to cross. We looked to the left.
Those two cars were already parked. We proceeded to the middle and noticed that the car furthest in the furthest lane from us, that car was already parked. We proceeded and we were hit.
>> What happened when she hit? Don't Don't Hey, >> don't speak. Listen, for someone who can't take and pass a driver's test three times at least, I would keep my mouth shut until I look at you for an answer. Do you understand?
>> Yes.
>> And it was estimated by the officer that we >> No, no, no, no, no, no. She hit you in a crosswalk. That's a crosswalk. This young lady knew I'm not Did you hear me?
I'm not speaking to you.
>> Judy glares at Jennifer.
>> You don't understand. This was a really bad day for this kind of case to come into court. You do understand that?
>> Yes.
>> Okay, good. And you know why this is a very bad day for your case to come into court?
>> No.
>> Then you don't read the newspapers. I suggest if you read the newspaper, maybe you would be able to pass your driving test because either you failed the written portion or you failed the driving portion. One or the other.
Do you understand?
>> Yes, your honor.
>> Good. Now we understand each other. Now you're almost at I'm sorry. You're almost at I'm sorry.
When the defendant's car struck you, where did you land? I have photos to show.
>> I'd like to see it.
>> Um, it kind of shows on the second photo there.
>> Lisa hands photos to Kevin who brings them to Judy.
>> Oh, you hit her windshield. Who hit her windshield? We did both, >> your honor.
>> And the hood.
>> That's not true. I only saw the that the her husband that he hit he hit the shield. It wasn't her.
What an idiot.
Kevin, I would like you to show Miss Santiago that photograph and this one.
>> Kevin brings the photos to Jennifer, then shows them to her.
>> Can I see the police report, please?
>> Sure.
>> Lisa produces a document, then hands it to Kevin. He collects the photos from Jennifer, then brings them and the document to Judy.
I'd also like you to show her these. I just want to I just want her to take a look at them.
>> He brings the document to Jennifer >> to know what happens when you act irresponsibly >> and you do things that you're not supposed to do, like take a car and drive it when you have no license when you failed your driving test twice.
>> Jennifer looks at the document. Caption coming up.
>> The yellow warning lights next to the crosswalk were flashing.
>> They were not. Witness one observed plaintiff one driving northbound towards the crosswalk at a fast speed. She drove through I'm speaking not you.
>> I was not >> I'm speaking not you.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Lisa, Reza, and Jennifer. Lisa Hilddrth and Reza Mahasani are accusing 20-year-old Jennifer Santiago of hitting them in a crosswalk while she was driving without a license.
>> Okay. Your last name is >> Gilles.
>> You spoke to the police that day.
>> Uh, yes, I did.
>> I don't know what you're doing here as a witness. She stated she did not see what happened. That's what it says here.
>> Uh, yes.
>> Just a second. That's what it says here.
>> Uncross your arms. Now you can sit down.
Gillis stated she did not see what happened. However, she identified Miss Santiago as the driver. And then there was a witness. Witness one stated she was riding as a passenger in a vehicle driving northbound on the 3100 block of Carlsbad Boulevard. The two plaintiffs were crossing the road in a marked crosswalk on the south side of the intersection of Carsbed Boulevard and Oak Avenue. The two were crossing from the west side of the street to the east side of the street. The yellow warning lights next to the crosswalk were flashing.
>> They were not.
>> Witness one observed plaintiff one driving northbound towards the crosswalk at a fast speed. She drove through. I'm speaking, not you.
>> I was not.
>> I'm speaking, not you.
>> I'm reading from a statement in the police report from a witness who stopped when this accident happened that you don't know. Neither do you.
>> Okay. So, now we have a witness who neither one of you know who said the yellow lights were flashing. Even if they weren't, there's a crosswalk and there are signs that said pedestrian.
But this witness says the lights were flashing. Then the officer who did a blood test there for alcohol states as follows. During the investigation, P1, that would be you, displayed objective symptoms of intoxication. I noticed her eyes were slightly red and watery. Her speech was very quiet. I determined P1 was under the influence of cannabis.
>> That's not true, your honor.
>> Ju just a second. Do you have any supplementary police reports?
>> The only other thing that I have from the officer is an email that he >> No, no, no. An email to whom?
>> An email from the police officer to us.
>> I'd like to see it.
>> Sure.
>> Lisa produces a document, then hands it to Kevin. He brings it to Judy.
>> Thank you. Yes, ma'am.
She dons her glasses then reviews the document.
>> Okay. So what you said to the police officer was and the police officer responded to you that the report came back negative.
>> Correct.
>> And he said, "I'm not changing it.
Therefore, it's not a criminal matter.
You have to sue her civily." Correct.
>> Because clearly the accident was her fault.
>> Correct.
>> Were you taken to the hospital that day?
We both were.
>> And you were taken to jail.
>> Yeah.
>> When was the last time you took a driving test? Month and year.
>> I haven't taken no driving test.
>> When was the last time you took a You took a driving test, madam. You failed twice.
>> So, I want to know when the last time was that you took a driving test.
>> I can't remember. It was a long time ago.
>> Did you take a driving test in the year 2021?
>> Yeah, I did.
>> Did you pass that driving test? No.
>> Was that your third or fourth driving test?
>> That was the second.
>> No, the sec. You took two according to your friend before 2020.
>> I know.
>> So, I asked you in 2021, did you take it? You said yes. You didn't pass it.
And I asked you, was that the third or the fourth test that you had?
>> That was my second.
>> No. I don't know how much more that a court system can do but to say to people who don't have driver's licenses, especially in your case where you tried to get a license but failed to pass on at least two occasions before this incident, which means that you were a risk to be on the road because you couldn't pass a driving test twice before this incident. Now, you want to tell me whether you, and this requires a short answer, not one of your long ones.
Did you have your mother's permission to take the car that day to pick her up and go to the beach?
>> No.
>> Have you ever had your mother's permission to take the car and go anywhere?
>> No.
>> So, in effect, if you had no license and you didn't ask for permission, then you stole the car.
>> No.
What do you mean? No.
>> You didn't have permission of the owner to take the car. You weren't a licensed driver. Therefore, there was no insurance. Had you Well, let's go back.
Did you ever ask your mother to use the car?
>> No, not at all.
>> And what happened after you had this accident in your mother's car and after you got out of jail? What happened between you and your mother? Well, she was sad cuz I was in jail and well, she was also mad cuz like why would I take the car without her permission?
>> Why did you take the car without her permission?
>> Well, I honestly didn't thought that this would happen.
>> Nobody thinks that an accident is going to happen. I don't think you intentionally hit these two people. No, >> I don't think you intentionally hit these two people. Are you ready to say I'm very sorry yet?
>> Uh, yeah. I told them through we have talked before. I told them that I was sorry and I'm telling them again that I'm sorry.
>> Good. That's better. Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $10,000.
We're finished.
>> This court is a journ.
>> Outside the courtroom, Reza and Lisa then Jennifer.
>> Well, I'm really pleased with the judge's decision. I didn't see anything until that guy hit the windshield.
>> We have a young child, so we understand that the driver [music] was young and mistakes happened.
>> I started screaming and I was scared >> for about 3 hours in the hospital. I didn't know if she was going to live or die basically.
>> I was so scared like I just stay there.
I was in shock.
>> It's been rough. I told them that I was sorry that the accident happened. I had [music] like internal bleeding in my arm. I have loss of range of motion in my hand.
>> Well, I honestly I didn't even went to see them because I was so scared.
>> It was the unluckiest day and the luckiest day of our life. So, we're here and we're grateful for [music] that.
>> I was super scared. Like I was like I killed them. Like I was crying in jail.
>> We both have to deal with physical injuries, but like Lisa said, it was the unluckiest and luckiest moment of our life. So, we're grateful that we're here.
>> Sarah and Judy >> being pretty close to 18, myself.
>> Court come to order. All rise.
>> Judy enters.
>> Have a seat, everyone.
>> Kevin approaches.
>> Hello, judge. Case number 2016, Paharro versus Statman.
>> Mr. Parari, it is your claim that the defendant who lived with you for a brief period of time owes you money for a plane ticket and for her unauthorized use of your credit card.
>> That's correct. I don't know what the defense is to this except that I think her defense is that you were just stupid and she took advantage of you.
>> I'm trying to figure it out.
>> I'm actually trying to figure it out.
But you met the defendant, according to you, on an online dating app and started a conversation with her on what date?
>> So, we met in March 2020 on a dating app for LGBTQ people. We started dating in March 2020. Four months later, she moved in with me, which I know is not smart, but >> July.
>> Yes, in July 2020.
>> And where had she been living?
>> She had been living in Florida.
>> And where do you live?
>> I live in Seattle, Washington.
>> Did you send her money for a plane ticket? How did she get to you?
>> She had money herself at that time to cover the cost of moving.
>> So, she moved and it was her own funds that she used to >> Yeah. The swindling hadn't started yet.
>> You must have had some substantial check. What is this? What is this look?
I don't know what this look is.
>> Oh, it's just the verbiage. the >> Okay. Well, let me go back and let me start with you, okay? Because there's only one theatrical person here in this room, and that's me.
>> Do you understand?
>> I do.
>> I get paid the big bucks to be theatrical. Okay. So, Miss Straman, you lived in Miami. He lived in >> Seattle, Washington.
>> Seattle, Washington. You decided to move in with him. What kind of work were you doing in Seattle? I was a video editor, but when CO happened, everyone kind of lost their jobs.
>> And what arrangements did you make with him when you were going to move in with him?
>> He told me that if I gave up my life in Florida, I had a very lovely apartment, lots of friends.
>> He had lovely apartment to Seattle.
>> Okay. So, he said, "Move to Seattle and I'll take care of you."
>> Yes.
>> That's what you say in here.
>> Yes.
>> And that was in July of 2020.
>> Yes.
>> Is that about what you said to her? No.
The reason she moved in again, it was four months after we started dating, which normally >> had you seen her during those four months?
>> We had Zoom.
>> That's either yes or no.
>> No. No.
>> No. You So, you had no physical no contact with her.
>> No. Okay.
>> But because we were in lockdown and we were both pretty isolated. It made sense. Her lease was ending and things moved really fast between us. So, we decided to try out together. Yeah.
>> Okay. Was there any discussion about what she was going to do once she got to Seattle?
>> Yeah. So, as she stated, she was a freelance video editor and she said she was going to potentially have more work in Seattle and continue to try and find gigs for that or find other employment, drive for Uber Eats, >> but she came to you and she wasn't working.
>> She wasn't working. No.
>> Okay. And the relationship with her ended in what month?
>> It ended in February 2021.
>> So, it was a relatively shortlive period. Maybe six, seven months, >> right? Because of her.
>> Did she ever work when she was with you?
>> Not that I >> Just a second. I'm gonna ask her. Did you ever have full-time gainful employment during the time that you lived with a plaintiff?
>> I did not. I was not supposed to.
>> I didn't ask you. I don't ask to be editorialized. I asked you, did you ever work full-time?
>> No.
>> Did you ever work part-time?
>> No.
>> Okay. Then there came a time, according to what I read in both of your papers, that he purchased a plane ticket for you to go back to Miami. That would be a Yes.
>> That is correct. You're right.
>> And what month was that?
>> That was in February of 2021.
>> And tell me in your own words what you told him as to why you wanted to go to Miami because he wasn't going with you.
>> He was not going with me. Tell me what you told him as to why you needed to go to Miami.
>> I told him that I needed to visit my sister.
>> And does your sister live in Miami?
>> Yes.
>> Had you been there to visit her before?
>> I had. Yeah.
>> While you were living with him?
>> No. No. I didn't travel.
>> So, this was the first time you wanted to go and visit your sister?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Was there any specific reason that you gave him as to why you wanted to go visit your sister?
>> She was sick and I wanted to be there.
>> But did you tell him what she was sick with?
>> Yeah, it was co. Does she live alone >> at the time? Yes.
>> You know, this is not going to be easy.
It's going to get harder. Now, the plaintiff seems like a relatively intelligent human being. Hands off hips.
If somebody I lived with say, I want to go and see, unless it was a young child, maybe in a school or something that lived alone in an attic dormer. I want to go see my sister who's sick with COVID and you don't have COVID and this is 2021. I would say, "Why would you do that and put yourself at risk and then come back and put me at risk?" Didn't you have that conversation?
>> We didn't, your honor. No, it just didn't come up.
>> I want to go take care of my sister cuz she has CO. What about isolation? Didn't you ever hear about that?
>> I did hear about that. I spent a lot of time >> What do you think that that means?
>> Isolation means not traveling.
>> No, isolation means you're not supposed to be around other people if you test positive for COVID. If you're sick, stay at home. you don't travel cross country to be with somebody who's sick, but it doesn't make any difference actually because you should have picked up on that or whatever because you didn't really want this ticket according to what I read, Miss Trackman, to go and visit your sick sister. You needed this ticket because you had started to become involved with a boyfriend who was in jail in Florida.
>> Unfortunately, yes.
>> Okay. So, that's a yes. Which you didn't tell him. So, you took the money from him for let's just start with the ticket under false pretenses. I did, but I >> just a second. That's all I did. Not a but not a I did take the money from him under false pretenses. When you went to Florida said you needed it for one thing and in fact you didn't. That's under false pretenses. How much was the ticket?
>> The ticket was for $427.40.
>> Okay. And when you went to Florida, Miss Draman, and you stayed in a hotel motel.
What did you stay in?
>> I stayed in a hotel. And whose charge account did you use for the hotel?
>> Yenni had given me a credit card.
>> That's not what I asked you. That's a name. Whose credit card did you use when you stayed at the hotel?
>> The plaintiff. Yiannis.
>> Mhm. And that was by pre-arrangement with him that you were going to stay in a hotel rather than with your sister.
>> No, but I had the credit card for >> That's not what I mean. Let's go back.
You had the credit card. I'm assuming for the purpose of this question that what you say and I don't know if it's true but I'm assuming for this question that what you say in your answer is accurate that he gave you a credit card to use for your necessaries and expenses for emergencies.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. You would agree that going to visit secretly another boyfriend in Miami is not a necessity.
>> You would agree that Yianni cheating on me was not a necessity.
>> No. No. No. No. No.
Did you use his credit card?
>> I did and I believe that human loving kind >> Okay, just a second. Just that's Do I look like I need help from you?
>> If you had given him Miss Draman a credit card, I want you to try to take everything else from out of your mind.
If you had given him your credit card and said, "I'm giving this to you because I said to you I would take care of you when we lived together if you didn't have a job." Let's say I believe that. I'm not so sure, but let's say I believe that you would agree that going to see another boyfriend across the country was not a necessity for him or for me.
>> For you, no or for Sarah.
>> For me, I'm a woman with needs. I need dopamine. I need love. I need connection. And I wasn't getting that from Yiani. So, it was a necessity that I went to go visit another man. Yeti had other girls as well on the side coming.
>> You didn't just a second, Miss Trackman.
You didn't pay for the other girls. You didn't pay for his other girls.
>> I paid emotionally.
>> Oh, you said what an idiot.
>> What led you to believe you had the legal right to take that cat?
>> Because that cat had become severely bonded to me. Yianni was neglecting both of us, both of the women in his life you chose him as.
>> Tell me how the cat died in your custody. That's not a smile story. You always make a big deal according to you about your birthday. It's very important day of the year.
>> Correct.
>> Yeah, that's the way Sarah feels actually. me. I sort of like to forget birthdays now. [music] I like it to run right by that day as undercovered as possible.
>> Mhm.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Yenni and Gigi.
>> Yiani Parro claims his ex-girlfriend Gigi Stman owes for the cost of a plane ticket, credit card charges, and [music] stealing his cat. Gigi says they were all necessary expenses for her.
>> Now, you should feel so lucky that you got off so cheap.
>> I think you should assume everything that comes out of her mouth.
>> No, no, no. Because if I had, I would, you know, I get who I'm dealing with, sir. $427 for the flight ticket. How much was the credit card?
>> The credit card. Also, there was an incident with my cat as well. Um, which >> just a second I'll address >> later. Well, going to get to that in a minute. That's your least strong suit, but it sort of tells me again who I'm dealing with. How much did she use on the credit card in Miami?
>> Okay.
>> Only in Miami.
>> Right. In Miami, she spent $1,000 on >> Now, just a sec. Is that a sheet from your credit card company?
>> Yes.
>> I'd like to see it easier.
>> Would you like me to add the $427 for the flight ticket?
>> Yeah.
>> Let's separate the two for me now.
>> Okay.
giving me just show me where the bills are.
>> So, those are two separate credit card statements because she used it in two separate months. One of those is when she initially started using it, which was >> I don't care when she initial started at, you know, let's understand. Yeah.
>> She got your credit card.
>> Yes.
>> I only want to see the charges from Miami.
>> Okay. It's the one that says bail bonds.
The the bigger charge which was >> just Okay.
>> How much?
>> That was for $1,000. Uh but overall it was >> No, no, no. $1,000. We're going to do it this way. $1,000 bail bonds.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Next.
>> And then she spent $262.50 at a hotel for both of them.
>> 250 for a hotel.
>> And then she spent $105 on a fancy dinner for her and her lover.
>> And her what?
>> And her lover.
>> Okay. 150.
>> 150 is not fancy. That's the kind of person you're dealing with.
>> 150. I don't think there's a question before you, madam. 10 4 1,400 bucks there. Is that close?
>> Including the,000.
>> Including the,000, but then not including the four 25. So it would be$1827.
>> Correct.
>> Thank you. Okay. Now, let's get to the final issue. So that takes care of your plane ticket and the credit card while she was in Miami. Now let's talk about the cat. Miss Dman, you moved in with the plaintiff July of 20.
>> Yes.
>> And when you moved in with the plaintiff, did he have a cat?
>> Yes, he did.
>> Okay. And what was that cat's name?
>> That cat's name was Momo. And you lived with him a total of approximately six months?
>> Yes, your honor. And during that time, the cat >> No, no, I didn't ask you any question.
There's no question before you.
>> There's no question before. I have dates. You moved in. You lived with him for 6 months. When you moved in, the cat was there. And if you recall, in what month and year had you gotten the cat?
>> I got Momo uh right before she moved in with me as an emotional support animal, which is legally protected.
>> When you say right before she moved in with you, give me the month. And where did you get the cat from?
>> June 2020, I adopted her from a shelter.
>> So you didn't have the cat long.
>> No.
>> When she moved in? No. And then the two of you had the cat.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. And then when she just a second.
Then when she left, she left in February of 2021.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. We are now in August of 2022. And you recently filed this case with regard to your cat, >> right? I didn't know where she was. Just a second. Disappear. I don't care.
>> Okay.
>> You recently filed this case with regard to the cat. Did you make a police report when she left with the cat?
>> Um, I don't.
>> The answer is either yes or no.
>> I don't like involving the police. So, no. I didn't want to ruin her life.
>> Oh, well, I want to tell you something.
I have a small four-pound dog at home. I love that creature more than anything in the world except my grandchildren, my husband, and my children. Hope there are enough life rafts for everybody, including the dog. I did try to hire a private investigator in Florida, but I didn't know where she was.
>> Okay. You didn't report it to the police, and I do have a problem with that. Now, Miss Straman, you knew when you moved into he had this cat that he had adopted.
>> Yes, your honor.
>> I want you to tell me what led you to believe you had the legal right to take that cat.
>> Because that cat had become severely bonded to me. Yiani was neglecting both of us. Both of the women in his life he chose to neglect. as I was working in.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no. Just a second.
Don't >> Sorry, I paid everything.
>> And so the cat >> So he was neglecting the cat and you. So you decided maybe half a neglect, half a neglect, you could be one whole person.
>> Exactly. Me and her just getting out of here and going to go start a new life together. I spent day and night with that cat. That cat was extremely bonded to me. She would be devastated without me.
>> Tell me how the cat died in your custody. Tell me how the cat died in your custody. That's not a smile story.
>> It's not. No, it's it's absolutely devastating. I am completely torn up about it. Unfortunately, my boyfriend's dog was not accustomed to cats and mistook her for a toy and she did not survive that.
>> What kind of a dog does your boyfriend have?
>> We don't know the breed. I've never done the genetic testing.
>> You have a picture of the dog?
>> I do not. I didn't bring anything. So, I was hoping you just use >> Just brought you smile.
>> Okay. [laughter] >> She's smile with her boyfriend.
>> She said I didn't ask you a question.
And there's no question before you.
>> Love transcends bars.
>> Okay. 1827 $1,000 for taking his cap and because you're a fool. 728 2827. Judgment for the plaintiff. Thank you very much. We're done here.
>> Thanks. Court is a journ.
>> First of all, I'm glad and I [music] think justice was served. I'm not for Momo, but for the other scams that uh Jacqueline pulled.
>> That I need dopamine. I need oxytocin. I need love. I need care.
>> Well, credit card fraud. And Yiani said that they were going to be the person who was going to give that to me.
>> Deception played with my heart >> and then didn't. So, I had to find it elsewhere.
>> It was incredibly This This was Momo.
>> I did not have the cat killed. I was very attached to Momo. That was my cat as well.
>> It was incredibly hard to deal with. I was also alone when I had to process that news. So, >> I did not set a hit man out on the cat.
That's a lot to say. She saw me as a sugar daddy and uh she saw herself as a wannabe and a Nicole Smith.
Unfortunately, neither of us are those things. [laughter] >> Can I plead the fifth on finding another sugar daddy?
>> Yet another lesson we learned about cohabitants living together and the rules of what not to do. No cars, no pets, no money exchanges.
>> Joint, no joint pets, no joint.
>> Exactly. But today we learned a new one.
today. Don't give access to your credit card to anyone that you don't want racking up charges for any purpose, even to visit a secondary lover in another state.
>> You know, the divorce rate in this country is still hovering somewhere around 50%. The living togethers who don't quite make it to the marriage place is a much greater number.
>> Living togethers don't stay together >> 70% of the time. Why in the world would you buy a pet together?
>> It's a risk. car together, a time share together.
>> True.
>> Or give somebody a credit card.
>> Yeah.
>> At the time that you do it, you're happy with them. But since at least 70% of the time, you're going to go your own separate ways. At that time, you're mad at each other >> and the lines get blurry.
>> And the lines get blurry. Absolutely.
>> Case number 2024, Morgan versus Davis.
All parties, please step forward.
>> Cory Morgan is suing dress designer Jacqueline Davis for party costs and a dress deposit. Miss Morgan, this is what this case is about in a nutshell. You were celebrating a birthday. When was your birthday?
>> March 24th.
>> And you always make a big deal according to you about your birthday. It's very important day of the year for you and for everybody who knows you.
>> Correct.
>> Yeah. That's the way Sarah feels.
Actually me, I sort of like to forget birthdays now. I like it to run right by that day as undercovered as possible. Mhm.
>> Anyway, you celebrate your birthday with a big party, right?
>> And according to you, you get a spectacular dress for this party. Invite everybody that you know and care about.
How many people were you having for your birthday party?
>> It was going to be about 12 people.
>> Where was it going to be held?
>> It was going to be at the James Harden restaurant.
>> Who was going to be there?
>> My best friend from Chicago, my mom, my dad. Just an intimate setting of family and friends.
>> Mom, dad, your best friend from Chicago.
Who else? just family, cousins, aunt, >> and you couldn't get the restaurant for that day, so you made it in April on a different day than your birthday?
>> Yes. I originally booked it in January 18th. The restaurant, it's a big deal, so yeah, >> whatever. It was postponed until what date?
>> Yes, ma'am. April uh 1st.
>> Okay. What about your best friend from Chicago? You told her not to come in cuz you didn't have a dress? Well, I told him that I would be cancelling the dinner because when she didn't deliver the dress, everything was already in black and silver.
>> Black and silver. You put on black pants, black top, and you put on a silver around your neck. Be [music] ridiculous, Miss Morgan. You have to grow up a little.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. [music] Corey and Jacqueline.
Corey Morgan says dress designer Jacqueline Davis is responsible for party costs and a dress deposit.
Jacqueline is counter suing claiming Cory owes for travel costs.
>> And you ordered your dress from the defendant. You found her through a mutual friend because she makes wonderful clothes. The defendant also is a tax preparer, I understand. Is that right?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> So, she's busy. So, she makes clothes.
She's a tax preparer in season. You made arrangements with her to make your dress and she was going to make your dress at the cost of $300. According to you, you didn't get your dress in time. It was never fitted at all after your initial measurements were taken. Is that correct?
>> Yes.
>> And since you didn't have the dress for your dinner, you had a terrible birthday. You canceled your birthday and you want her to pay for the dinner.
>> Yes. Um, just the Well, just build up.
>> That's a Miss Morgan.
>> Mhm.
>> How old are you?
>> I just made 35. So it was the buildup leading to it.
>> So if you turn 35, >> I'm a lot older, >> Sarah's younger, >> and my other grandchildren, you know, were around that age. I have one that's close to your age. I cannot imagine any of my older grandchildren or me, for instance, cancelling an event because I didn't have just the right dress. I mean, it's not as if a bride is cancelling her wedding because she didn't have a wedding dress to wear. Of course, if you want to get married badly enough, you put a sack over your head with a tie and you walk down the aisle, but you don't cancel the wedding. So, you want her to pay for the deposit that you made on the dress.
>> Yeah, it was >> and another thousand or more dollars because you didn't have a nice party.
>> So, originally when I booked it, it was for April 1st. when I tried to rebook it because she told me at the last minute that she was not going to be able to do the dress, which was the week of. I had originally set up for her to do the dress so I could have something to wear.
I purchased shoes, nails.
>> I understand. I understand everything.
>> She's not going to pay you for the party. You should have worn something else for the party. Believe me, your best friend from Chicago, your mother and your father would not have cared if you wore that dress or any other dress.
You should not be out a penny.
>> I was out of penny. Um, >> you out $150. You gave her $150. Is that right?
>> Yes, your honor.
>> Okay.
>> I gave it back to her. I sent her a refund.
>> Oh, you did send her a refund?
>> Yes.
>> Did you? Just a second. Up. Up.
>> When did you send her a refund, Miss Davis?
>> I sent her a refund on March 29th. She requested a refund on March 28th and I sent it directly to her >> to her on March 29th.
>> Yes. How did you send it? By check or >> She sent me the money via Cash App and I returned it via Cash App.
>> Do you have verification of that?
>> Yes, I do.
>> And she kept that money?
>> Yes.
>> Is that correct, Miss Morgan?
>> Yes, ma'am. Up to Yes.
>> Well, what' you think you were taking that money for? You asked for a refund.
She gave you a refund.
>> I gave her $15 and she sent me $105 back. But she sent it the week of my event.
>> I don't care the week of your event. Did you send her 105 or >> I did? Um because I was charged a fee with Cash App and also there were additional items that were purchased that I told her about that I deducted from that.
>> You can't deduct anything from that and you can't even deduct the fee from Cash App because what it cost her was more than $150 then to send it to you. Right.
>> Right.
>> Right. So why should you send her less?
>> Because I previously explained to her that I needed to order stones. Those stones were ordered.
>> Oh, then you're going to have to eat those. You didn't have the dress in time. You didn't have the dress in time.
The dress was done.
>> No, it wasn't done. Not even according to you was it done. She hadn't had a fitting on it. The problem is you gave her money and you should have sent her exactly what it is that she sent you because you didn't fulfill your end of the contract. A day before the party is not the time to say it's 95% ready.
Okay. She has to give you 145.88, which is exactly what she received. Am I correct that that's what she said?
>> She said 145.88. Okay. She doesn't pay you for your disappointment, for your sorrow, for your party costs, or anything else. Just for my own information, because that's my judgment.
Did you spend your birthday with your mother and father?
>> Um, >> that's either yes or no.
>> No, ma'am.
>> Who did you spend your birthday with?
>> My boyfriend.
>> Oh. Was he invited to the other party?
>> The dinner? Yes. But I had to cancel the dinner.
>> I'm just asking. You didn't have to cancel the dinner cuz you didn't have a dress. That's what I'm trying to get to you. You could have gone to your dinner in that dress. I know it's silly and it's a little bit immature also. What about your best friend from Chicago? You told her not to come in cuz you didn't have a dress.
>> Well, I told him that I would be canceling the dinner because I purchased shoes, my nails, everything was accustomed to the dress. So, when she didn't deliver the dress, everything was already in black and silver. I did not have a chance to go look for anything cuz it was the week of.
>> Oh, yes. Of course you did. Of course you did. Black and silver. You put on black pants, black top, and you put on a silver around your neck. We're done here. Don't be ridiculous, Miss Morgan.
You have to grow up a little. You have to give her back her money. Don't disappoint people. I mean, I know it's busy. It's tax time. You said to her, "I'm busy. I'm working on things for the Oscars. You can't overstretch yourself."
I know that it's very entrepreneurial to try to do too much. But sometimes when you try to do too much, you disappoint somebody.
>> Court is a journ.
>> I'm not happy about it just because I'd already given her a refund.
>> I'm happy with the decision. Um, it was pretty much principal for me. She was very unprofessional and given from the beginning [music] I worked with her and she didn't respect my time and she canceled on me at the last minute and she waited to the last minute and cancelled the order. So she canceled at the last minute because she didn't have the dress ready to begin with.
Everything was really on her but she [music] put it on me because she was unhappy with how she chose to deal with the whole situation. Will be getting another dress with my original person that I was going to go to? Absolutely not. But from now on, I definitely will be going with who I know will not work with the plaintiff again.
>> So, I remember seeing through CO a lot of wedding dress shops closing down and the stress of brides going for fittings and seeing their dress, picking their dress, and then the shop just closed right out from under them. I wonder if any of them canled their wedding because they didn't have >> after a night of drinking and driving.
>> Court, come to order.
>> Have a seat, please. Kevin approaches the bench.
>> Hello, judge. Case number 2018, Gray versus Woods.
>> Thanks, Kevin. You're >> welcome.
>> Everybody sober today.
>> Daniel and Tony Grin.
>> Yes.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> You?
>> Yes. I'm sober.
>> Yes.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Most definitely.
>> Everybody. Okay. Good. You two gentlemen know each other. You went out for an evening. I assume there was some drinking and your car got totaled.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> It is your claim that the defendant was driving your car when it got totaled.
>> Yes.
>> The defendant says, "Well, he was drinking a little bit, but he says that you don't remember cuz you were so blatto that you were driving, >> right?"
>> Yes.
>> So, that's what the case is about.
Simple. Two drunks. Nobody knows who was driving the car when it got total.
Let's see if we can decipher it. If we can't, I may not care because you're not supposed to be in a car when you're drunk. Otherwise, you can kill a lot of people as we all know, right?
>> Yes.
>> Want to drive drunk and kill yourself.
That's one thing that you take a lot of other people down and sometimes you make it out. So, you have to be understanding to the fact that the judicial system really doesn't give a rat's behind. If the two of you were drunk and in a car and neither one of you was together enough to know who was driving the car, >> when did this incident happen?
>> It was November 27th, 2021.
>> How long have you known Mr. Woods, Mr. Gray?
>> I've known Mr. Woods about 20 years, I would say.
>> So, you've known him since you were kids?
>> Yeah, since high school.
>> And you have gone out frequently?
>> Yes.
>> Does he come to your house?
>> Yes.
>> You go to his house >> occasionally? Yes.
>> Occasionally. And where were you going on the 27th of November?
>> We were going downtown in Arbor to attend some festivities from the Michigan vers Ohio State football game >> to a football event.
>> Yeah.
>> How did Mr. Woods get downtown?
>> Well, and I got dropped off >> by whom?
>> Uh my friend.
>> Friend's name?
>> Um Lauren.
>> And where did she drop you off?
>> Um she dropped me off in front of the Starbucks downtown where they were waiting cuz they were drunk. I didn't drink basically.
>> Wait a second. Lauren dropped you off at Starbucks. Where were you supposed to go from Starbucks?
>> We supposed to go um to a club and hang out after the game.
>> So, you first went to the game?
>> No, they went downtown right after the game and I came to meet up to hang out.
>> So, it was all after the game?
>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> What time did Lauren drop Mr. Woods off at Starbucks?
>> I would say it was around like 3 4:00 >> in the afternoon, >> I believe. So, >> what time did Lauren drop you off? It had to be about 5:30, 6:00.
>> And when you say it had to be 5:30 or 6 o'clock, how do you know that?
>> Because the game was over.
>> I don't know. I don't watch football, so I don't know when it starts and when it finished. Do you remember what time the game finished?
>> No, I don't remember exactly.
>> Okay. So, let's say Lauren dropped you off at 5:30. How did you set the time for Mr. Woods to meet you so that he could join your party? The game is over different times. Did you text him? Did he call you? So on the way, we had left from my barber shop. Me and my witness here, Mocha.
>> So you weren't at the game. You were in a barber shop.
>> Yeah, we were at the barber shop at first. We watched the game.
>> Oh, you watch. So you didn't go to the game.
>> We didn't attend the actual game. No.
>> Okay.
>> We watched the game at the >> How many people, you, Mohammad, and who else watched the game at the barber shop?
>> I mean, the barber shop was full of We were still working at the time. We had left work after the game was over to go downtown to >> Were you watching the game or were you working?
>> I was doing both.
I would have hated to be your last haircut.
>> No, actually it wasn't a lot of people there because that was the biggest game of Michigan's season. The last game Ohio State, it's a big rivalry. So, nobody was in our barber shop.
>> So, it was just party.
>> It was >> Judy waves a finger around.
>> It was just party.
>> You know, I'm old so you know.
>> It was just party. You said a Mohamad.
>> It was a party.
>> It was just party. Okay. So, you left the barber shop, but how did you find out to meet them at the Starbucks? Uh, >> we have been communicating through texts.
>> So, you knew what time they were leaving the barber shop and then you got dropped off. Now, what were you doing with Lauren?
>> I was waiting to get to them.
>> Where were you before?
>> I was at home. I watched the game at home.
>> With Lauren?
>> No, with myself.
>> Well, how'd you get Lauren to take you to Starbucks?
>> Oh, I just asked her and gave her some gas money.
>> Okay. So, now you're at Starbucks. You meet up and who's driving?
>> I was driving.
>> Okay. And that would have been a mistake.
>> Excuse me.
>> That would have been a mistake. I wouldn't get behind the wheel of a car, sir, if I was at a party all afternoon watching a big football game.
>> Ma'am, I wasn't at a party. I was at my barber shop.
>> I know you were at your barber shop.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Look at Mohamad. I know you were at your barber shop. Sorry.
>> There have been any drinking going on at that time.
>> There was no drinking in the barber shop, Mohamad.
>> There was There was people participating. Some people weren't. Some people were. I wasn't.
>> I wasn't. I wasn't participating.
>> All righty.
>> Okay. So, now you go from this party in the barber shop all afternoon from this very big game and you pick him up and where were you going >> at that point? We decided to go to a bar.
>> Where was the bar?
>> I'm not familiar with downtown and Arbor area, but like it was a bar that was suggested by >> Stand up next to him. He's not familiar with a whole lot of things. You suggested a particular bar, Mohamad.
>> Yeah. Uh the >> How far is that from the Starbucks where he was dropped off? about a couple blocks over.
>> Okay. And you were in the car?
>> I was in the car.
>> Were you sitting in the front or the back when you picked up Mr. Woods?
>> I was sitting in the passenger seat at this point.
>> So, Mr. Woods got in the back.
>> Yes, he did.
>> And you were going a couple of blocks to the bar.
>> Yeah.
>> Step by step. What happened next?
>> So, traffic is jam-packed down there.
So, we really just inching to the bar.
We get to the bar. We go inside. We have a couple drinks. Um >> Okay. So, now maybe 6:00, 6:30.
>> Yeah. Dark outside.
>> And you have a couple of drinks at the bar.
>> Couple drinks. Yeah.
>> What were you drinking?
>> I was drinking water.
>> That's not a drink that they like to serve at a bar.
>> I'm I was a designated driver. So Okay.
>> Well, after we left the bar.
>> Okay. So, you were the designated driver and Mr. Gray was drinking.
>> Yes.
>> What was he drinking?
>> I don't remember what his drink is.
>> You remember what you were drinking?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> What?
>> I had one beer.
>> Okay.
Even he can't keep a straight face. You know, it's it's hard. It just don't speak.
>> Now, you were the designated driver.
When were you designated the designated driver? Think very care before you answer my questions. You know, I'm already two steps ahead of this game.
>> I've >> When were you Yeah, >> I've watched you on TV. Yes, I know.
>> When were you designated the designated driver?
>> When we left the bar, I was the designated driver.
>> No. No. So, it was when you left the bar.
>> Yes.
>> And who designated you the designated driver? Well, I I kind of designated myself. I'm pretty familiar with the Ann Arbor area. It's actually my idea to go downtown. So >> So you asked Mr. Gray if you could drive.
>> Yeah. I thought it was would be the best idea.
>> And Mr. Gray said, "Okay."
>> Yes, he did.
>> So you drove. And where were you going from the bar?
>> To another bar.
>> Better pickings at the other bar.
>> Uh just bar hopping, you know, college downtown football.
>> Okay. And what's the name of that bar?
>> Uh where do we go from there? I think >> you're not up.
>> Judy glares at Muhammad.
speak unless I look at you. The name of the other bar.
>> Okay. Now, he helped you with that, right?
>> Yeah, he joged my memory a little bit. I think >> he joged your memory. So, if he knew the bar, why did you have to be the designated driver?
>> I don't think I understand your question.
>> It's very easy. You said you were the designated driver cuz you know that area, >> right? I'm saying I didn't remember what bar we went to. I I'm very familiar with the area. I just didn't remember what bar we were going to that night.
>> Okay. What happened when you got to the second bar?
>> We had some more drinks and um >> We had some more drinks.
>> Yes. What was Mr. Gray drinking?
>> You know, I don't I was talking to some other friends that I met up with there.
He was off doing his own thing. I don't remember what he was drinking.
>> What were you drinking?
>> Water still at this point.
>> Water.
>> Yeah.
>> Judy stares at him.
>> I like to stay hydrated.
>> She grins at him. Caption coming up.
>> When I come out of the restroom, my car is gone. So, I call him and he he's not answering the phone. So, I'm sitting at the shop waiting. He called me and say, "Yo, man, you gonna kill me, man. I just I just crashed your car. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, bro." Tony shakes his head.
A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. [music] Daniel, Muhammad, and Tony. Daniel Gray claims his former friend Tony Woods drove drunk and [music] crashed his car.
Tony says Daniel was the one driving drunk and wrecked his own car.
>> Okay. So [music] now he had a couple of drinks. You had another glass of water.
Mr. Gray and Mr. Woods both were drinking alcohol. And what happened next?
>> We left there. We went to get something to eat >> at this.
>> Where did you go to eat?
>> We went to What's the name of that place?
>> I don't know the name of the place and he's not going to tell you.
>> It's It's a hot dog place. It's right around the corner from where we was drinking.
>> And then what happened there?
>> We got something to eat.
>> Okay. Do you remember what time that was?
>> You know, I I really don't. Well, you've been already to two bars and a place to eat. So, and if you started out at 6:00, it had to be closer to 9 or 10:00, >> right? Yeah.
>> Okay. Then what happened?
>> Came out of the restaurant.
>> And >> and um >> Do you remember what you had at the restaurant?
>> I had some waffle fries.
>> And do you remember what Mr. Gray ate?
>> He had a hot dog.
>> And do you remember what Mr. Woods ate?
>> He also had a hot dog.
>> Good. So, you came out of the restaurant. Do you remember who paid the bill?
>> I think we all paid separately.
>> Okay. So now you come out of the restaurant.
>> Yeah, we come out the restaurant. We had eaten already. This when uh Mr. Woods over here started horse playing a little bit, charged at me from across the street. You know, I try to get him back.
>> But just a second.
>> Okay.
>> How did he get across the street?
>> Well, the restaurant was across the street. We parked across the street from the restaurant. Okay, I got it.
>> So, I had already got back to the car.
Okay.
>> Mr. Woods over here started horse playing and he ran across the street and tried tackling me and he got me around my waist. I tried to put him in a headlock, but you see the size of his head. Um, and did that just continue throughout the night? This horse playing?
>> No, no, no. So, he's horse playing with you, right?
>> But you get into the car. You said if you continued all during the night. What I want to know is from the place where they got hot dogs and you got waffle fries, did you get back into the car?
>> We did get back into the car. We went one more place.
>> Okay. Now, when you got back into the car after the two dogs and the fries, >> who was driving >> at that point? I think I was still driving.
>> Not think. I don't want to think.
>> I believe I was driving. I dropped myself off to my next destination cuz I separated from them two.
>> You went to one other place.
>> Uh, yeah.
>> With them.
>> With the three of them. Yes.
>> And when you got to the other place, you went in or you did not go in?
>> I went inside. Yeah.
>> Okay. Did you stay there? I did stay there.
>> And what about the two of them?
>> They went wherever they went. I don't Back to the barber shop, I believe.
>> And you were the designated driver >> up into the >> So, you were drinking the water?
>> Yes.
>> And they were both drinking alcohol.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> What do you mean? Yeah. [laughter] You go to at least two bars, maybe three. You have a whole afternoon of drinking at a barber shop. Not you. You were drinking water.
>> Water. Yeah. I don't know what >> then you get dropped off. You was the designated driver. Now they're nowhere near home. So you knew one of them was going to be driving, >> right?
>> And as far as your testimony is concerned, you were left in the last place that you visited. They went out to go someplace else or go back to the barber shop, >> right?
>> Did you see them again that evening?
>> Um >> uh is not an answer. I mean, we're coming to court today. You know, it's not a photo shoot. You came here for testimony.
>> I don't believe I seen them that night again.
>> No, I'm just talking about that night.
That's what we're talking about. That night. This is the night of the accident. The 27th of November, 2021.
You're in a club. You don't know what happened. Now, when they dropped you off, did you go outside with them or did you just stay in the club?
>> I stayed inside.
>> So, you don't know anything else.
>> What happened after that?
>> Now, you can sit.
>> Thank you.
>> Muhammad sits.
>> Okay. Now, your witness, the designated water drinking driver, has dropped himself off and the two of you go outside. What happened >> after he get dropped off? We are parked at a bar and >> just a second. He stays there. You get into the car cuz you're going to another bar.
>> No, not at this point.
>> Where were you going?
>> I was getting ready to go to my barber shop.
>> He's not with you. Who was driving?
>> I was driving at that point.
>> Okay. And you were driving to take yourself back according to you to the barber shop.
>> Yes.
>> And then what happened?
>> Okay. So we get to the barber shop and I leave the car running. He's in the car with me.
>> Just a sec. Got to the barber shop and you left the car running for what reason?
>> Because it was it was cold outside. It was snow. It was like it's November.
>> Well, what were you going to the barber shop for?
>> I went to the barber shop because I needed to use the restroom.
>> And the barber shop is close by to this last bar you were at?
>> Yes.
>> How close?
>> Maybe like two miles.
>> Okay. So you went to the barber shop, you left the car running and >> so I go in to use the restroom and I leave the car running and Mr. Woods was sitting in the car still. So as I'm in the restroom, he comes in and start knocking on the door and says that he had lost his phone when he had got out out the car where we were parked at >> where >> the last bar that we were at. I didn't actually go into the last bar. We was parked there. We were about to go in to to meet up with him.
>> What do you mean to meet up with him? He was with you.
>> As he said, he got he met up with another friend.
>> He didn't tell me that. He said you just dropped him off at the other bar and you weren't going in. Just he was going in.
You dropped him off. That's what he said.
>> No, he went in.
>> I understand he went in.
>> All right. I never went in the last bar.
>> Okay. You didn't go in and neither did he.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I'm I'm asking you. He said I lost my phone someplace.
>> No. Where we were parked at. He He got out the car for a second. I never got out the car. He got out the car for a second. And as >> What was he doing when he got out of the car for a second? He thought we were about to go in, but I said I told him that I needed to use the restroom. So, he got back in the car, but at some point when he got out the car, he dropped his phone. So, I told him I needed to use the restroom. So, I go to my shop to use the restroom. I park the car.
>> Got it.
>> Get out. I leave the car running. I go in, use the restroom. He comes in, knocks on the door telling me that, "Hey, yo, I lost my phone. Can I drive the car? Let me go pick it up real quick." And I tell him, "No, like just wait. I'll be out in a second." So, he leaves. I hear the door open and close.
I'm thinking that he's just going to sit back in the car. So, when I come out of the restroom, my car is gone. I call him and he he's not answering the phone. So, I keep calling. I keep calling and then the next like 10 minutes later, he answers the phone. So, I knew he went to go get his phone.
>> He found his phone.
>> Yes. And I'm I'm furious at this point cuz he just left me in my >> at the barber shop.
>> Yeah. In my car. So, I tell him, you know, bring my car back right now. You know, he said, "I'm on my way. I'll be there in a minute." About 15 minutes later, he called me and say, "Yo, man, you gonna kill me, man. I just I just crashed your car. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, bro."
>> And I had to walk all the way to the accident scene to the car where he crashed my car at.
>> Now, you have an accident report?
>> No, I don't have an accident report because we we never called the police because he wasn't involved with another car. He just hit a pole.
>> I understand that. That's still an accident report. The only reason you don't call the police is because both of you were drinking. Well, I I wasn't driving the car at that time.
>> When you were driving the car to the barber shop, right?
>> Yes.
>> From the last bar where you dropped Mohamad off, you were driving.
>> Yes. I was not drunk, though.
>> If you're not drinking, you know, it's sort of an interesting thing.
Everybody's definition of drunk is different. Your friend Mohamad said that he was the designated driver, so he was just drinking water. That's what he said. That's what bar >> which suggests to me that we had a full day of drinking starting at the barberh shop watching the game from the game to two or three bars then for a bite to eat.
>> No, I wasn't drinking at the barber shop. I didn't start drinking until we got to the first bar.
>> Okay. So now you started to drink at 6:00. Now it's 10:00 and you've been drinking from one place to another. I'm just saying you got behind the wheel of a car and you had been drinking. Now did you hit a pole? No, your honor.
>> Okay, now you tell me your version of the events.
>> Tony nods. Caption coming up.
>> How long was he in the restroom before you realized that you had dropped your phone?
>> About 5 minutes.
>> So now he's gone in to use the restroom.
You go and look for your phone. You see how easy this is? Like fishing in a fish tank.
>> Judy and Whitney Grin.
A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Daniel and Tony.
>> Daniel Gray has accused his former friend [music] Tony Woods of driving drunk and wrecking his car.
>> Okay. Now you tell me your version of the events.
>> Okay. First off, I ain't eating no hot dog. So I never >> You didn't what?
>> I never had a hot dog. Never hot dog.
>> Strike the hot dog.
>> No hot dog.
>> Whitney >> denies the hot dog.
>> Eat the hot dog either.
>> Yeah. Okay. Denies the hot dog.
>> Okay. So, so for for what happened after they got in the car, first they were very drunk.
>> Just a second. You don't have to tell me. All three of you were drunk.
>> I wasn't drunk yet. [laughter] >> Okay. By the time the car got trashed, you were drunk. Let me tell you what I believe.
>> Okay.
>> So that you can pick it up from there.
>> Okay.
>> I believe that Mohamad was dropped off at the last bar. So there came a time at the end of the evening when it was just the two of you. I don't know who's driving. I don't know who was the passenger, but I believe that they dropped him off because otherwise Mohammad, who appears here as a witness today, would have had a better story cuz he says, "I don't know what happened afterwards, you know."
>> Mhm.
>> Because I wasn't there. So, there was a time at the end of the evening that just the two of you were in the car.
>> Okay.
>> That's what I believe.
>> Okay. Can I tell you before that part though? Because he was driving down the wrong way of the street.
>> Well, there's no question in my mind. He shouldn't have been behind the wheel of a car.
>> And that's when I lost my my phone and my wallet and we were wrestling in the street. He actually attacked me.
>> Let's move forward.
>> Okay.
>> There came a time when just the two of you were in the car.
>> Okay.
>> When was that?
>> Well, we were sitting in front of a bar that we're about to go to. I got out the car and I dropped my phone. At that time, I asked him to take me back to get >> No, no, no. You dropped your phone. Man, you didn't know you dropped your phone because if you knew you dropped your phone, you would have picked it up.
>> Right. Correct.
>> Right. So, then you got back into the car. Driver's seat or passenger seat?
>> I was in the passenger seat. And Mr. Gray was driving.
>> Yes.
>> And Mr. Mohammad was at the bar.
>> Yes. He was with a friend.
>> He had gone to the bar. So it was the two of you. You're in the passenger seat. He's driving and he's drunk.
>> Yes.
>> And you went back to the barber shop for him to use the restroom.
>> Just follow because there was a time when you wanted to go back to look for your dropped phone. Do you understand?
>> Correct.
>> Now he goes back to the barber shop. How long was he in the restroom before you realized that you had dropped your phone?
>> About 5 minutes. And you realized that you had dropped your phone because you tried to make a call while you were waiting for him.
>> Correct. And it was snow on the ground.
Correct. It >> was. And it was snowing and he didn't have a Frankfooter.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> So now he's gone in to use the restroom.
You go and look for your phone. You see how easy this is? Like it's like fishing in a fish tank.
You went inside. And what did you do when you went inside when you realized that you had lost your phone?
>> I told him, "Let's go get my phone." And he drove us and went and got the phone.
>> Okay. So, he came out of the restroom.
You got back into the passenger seat of the car.
>> Correct.
>> And he got into the driver's seat of the car.
>> Correct.
>> And what happened?
>> Then we uh called Muhammad to try to um meet back up with him after we got my phone. And then >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Step slowly he turned.
Step by step, inch by inch. Now you're in the car on your way back to the bar where Mohamad is to look for your phone.
>> I got drunk. I I think I blacked out after that point. [laughter] >> Not according to your answer. According to your answer, you knew exactly what happened, sir. What do you mean you blacked out? You signed a sworn statement.
>> I know we got the phone. I got the phone.
>> Well, I know you got the phone. So, you had to have driven back there successfully to get the phone.
>> Yes.
>> And is it at that point that you get back into the car and you blacked out?
>> No, it was just I got really drunk after getting my phone. Like after that, I just >> You don't remember what happened?
>> I remember getting my phone and being drunk. Like I Yeah, I got my phone.
>> Okie dokie. There we go.
>> Okay. You were all drunk. As a matter of fact, I have zero sympathy for any of you getting behind the wheel of car.
Okay. The car was damaged.
>> Yes, I have. And so what you want me to believe that you blame him, and I could understand that because I don't know how drunk you actually were, whether or not you blame him for your wreck car because you were driving the car back to find his phone and it wouldn't have been in that problem had he not dropped his phone out of the car or whether he was actually driving the car drunk. It's actually irrelevant to me. You were both driving drunk. You have a bill to fix the car?
>> Yes, I do.
>> I'd like to see it. Daniel hands a document to Kevin who brings it to Judy.
She reviews it >> and I have pictures of the accident.
>> Okay. So, yeah. So, the bill was $5,500 and you had insurance.
>> Yes.
>> And the insurance paid for how much?
>> I had no fault insurance.
>> So, you didn't have >> I didn't have collision.
>> Okay. You didn't have collision. So, you had to pay $5,500 which you paid.
>> Yes.
>> Divide that by two.
>> 2750. That's what I thought. So, Mr. Gray, there are some lessons that you learn, and I don't know whether other courts would agree. I have to make a determination as to credibility. And quite frankly, I can't determine between two drunks who's telling me the truth because on the 27th of November, both of you were in no condition to drive a car.
And I can't tell who actually drove the car at the time that it was wrecked. But I do know that you drove the car from a club to your barber shop and that neither one of you stayed at the scene, called the police because both of you were inebriated and knew that either one or both of you were going to get busted for a DUI because you both drove the car that evening. What?
>> Ma'am, I was not drunk at the time that this happened. I was I did go to the bars, but I wasn't in the bars drinking that I had one beer.
>> 2750. We're done. This court is a jur.
>> Outside the courtroom, Daniel, then Tony.
>> I feel like he kind of got the story wrong cuz I wasn't drunk. But >> I think that was very fair. I feel like, you know, the judge was very reasonable.
>> I had one beer that day, but I mean, there's a limit to like being drunk in the state of Michigan.
>> It was just one of those drunk things, you know, but we got it taken care of. I wanted to make him look like my vehicle.
>> It was very snowy outside and, you know, something happened and I don't remember.
I didn't do anything. I just called I just called the tow truck and tried to get the situation solved. And I'm I'm very happy to get this case behind me.
>> Satisfied I got something out of the deal.
>> I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Hopefully, we could get back to being friends. You know, he's a good guy.
>> Judy and Sarah, >> I'm surprised you gave them anything.
You know, unclean hands don't deserve money from this court, as we've seen time and again. So, I'm surprised really that you gave him even half of what he was asking because you couldn't tell which one of them was credible, if either of them were credible. And so, what are you supposed to do? I mean, I guess splitting it down the middle was I understand [music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat.
[music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat.
[music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] Heat.
[music] Heat.
[music] Heat.
[music] Heat.
Heat. [music] [music] [music] Hey. Hey. Oh, [music] now [music] [music] hey.
>> [music] >> Time [music] [music] [music] pizza.
[music] >> [music] >> Oh, [music] [music] love.
work and defamation of character.
>> Court come to order. All eyes.
>> Be seated, please.
>> Kevin approaches the bench.
>> Hello, judge. Hi.
>> Case number 207, Sanchez versus Vasquez.
>> Thank you.
>> You're welcome.
>> Mr. Sanchez, how old are you, sir?
>> I'm 26 years old.
>> And what is your educational background?
>> I have a bachelor's degree in film that I got from Fullale University. I'm currently >> slowly.
>> I'm sorry. You have a bachelor's degree from >> Fullale University.
>> Where is that?
>> Orlando, Florida.
>> Orlando, Florida. That I can hear. You have to understand when you're dealing with someone of my age, you have to sort of factor that into your speech. People who are 26 may be able to follow you.
I'm senior. I need people to speak slowly so that I can follow them.
>> I got you.
>> So, you got a bachelor's degree from a university in Florida and graduated when?
>> I graduated in 2018. And from there, what kind of work did you do >> from there? I jumped around a little bit. I did.
>> Okay. You jumped around. Did your family live in Florida?
>> No, ma'am.
>> Where do they live?
>> They live in Bowmont, Texas.
>> Did you live with them at all in Bowmont?
>> No, ma'am.
>> After college?
>> Uh, not until the pandemic.
>> Okay. Well, the pandemic was in 2020.
>> Yes.
>> So, you graduated in June of 2018 and then the pandemic started on or about March of 2020.
>> Yes, ma'am. And March of 2020, you went home to your parents house.
>> Yes.
>> And you stayed there until when?
>> I'm still currently there. I started going back to school, actually.
>> When did you start going back to school?
>> My first classes were in December of last year >> in Texas.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Okay, great. So, you actually had a year and a half out of school when you were hopping around?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> So, I want you to tell me who you worked for in that year and a half.
>> I was an intern on a documentary.
>> Okay. And when was that?
>> That was about a few months after I graduated.
>> So maybe September, October.
>> Yeah, probably around there. I did a few independent films.
>> Okay. And what kind of work did you do for them?
>> Just kind of depended what they needed.
It was mostly Yeah, >> like a PA. And for that work, were you paid as a PA?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> And how much were you paid as a PA?
>> They paid me $75 a day.
>> Pay you in cash?
>> They paid me in cash.
>> Okay. So, you did those couple of little projects and then what? I was also waiting tables at the time.
>> Okay. Well, some you got to eat, >> right? After the pandemic hit, uh, my lease was up. I moved back home, decided I would go back to school to get a tech job. I'm going for cyber security right now. I had heard through a family friend.
>> Okay, let's stop there. This case is, I don't think, so difficult, but relatively interesting for me because we don't get them all the time. Mr. Vasquez, you were making a movie.
>> Yes, your honor.
>> Is this the first movie you ever made?
>> No, your honor.
>> How many movies have you made? This was film number five for me. Written, directed, produced.
>> Is it a fiction piece or a documentary?
>> It's actually based on a true story.
>> So, it's a docu drama.
>> Correct. Yes.
>> See that? Are you impressed with that?
There you go. A docu drama.
>> How long a film?
>> 90 to 100 minutes. We're still in post.
Still editing. So, >> keep your voice up. Approximately how long?
>> 100 minutes.
>> What was your budget?
>> It's still in in >> about what was your budget? Then you're going to tell me where you got the finance. Roughly 120,000.
>> Where did you get the money from?
>> A lot of it was my money and other producers.
>> How much did you put in?
>> Over 80,000.
>> And you've got other people in for about 40.
>> Yeah.
>> Did you make money on your other films?
>> I have. Yes. In the past.
>> Okay. This is what the case is about.
Mr. Sanchez says that he was hired by your company. And he was hired by your company to work on this last film that you were doing. And it was a paying job.
And at the end of the period, he was not paid. And in addition, he says that when he complained about not being paid, you put out there on social media that you weren't paying him because he was on drugs. Is that what the case is basically about?
>> Basically, it wasn't on social media. It was through text messages. He accused me of it. But >> text messages?
>> Yes.
>> Well, that to me is almost social media.
[laughter] If it doesn't come to me by the US Postal Service, I call it social media. [laughter] I know.
>> Okay. Did you answer an ad for this job?
No, I uh heard about it through a family friend.
>> And when did you meet Mr. Vasquez? For the first time.
>> We didn't actually meet face to face until about Saturday, July 10th, 2021.
>> Did you communicate via text messages or >> Yes, ma'am.
>> emails. When was the first either text message or email?
>> The first text message was on Monday the 28th, 2021 of June. 628 2021. May I see that, please?
>> Of course.
>> Christian hands a document to Kevin. Who brings it to Judy?
>> This one, too.
>> He hands another document to Kevin. Who brings it to Judy? She reviews a string of text messages.
>> Okay. Anything else? Okay. So, you first met by email. You say you have one spot available for him as an internship and then practically immediately thereafter you say somebody's family is sick in the crew. You have a spot for him as an assistant director.
>> So your honor, >> I'm reading this. Well, you have to tell me what that means. I need a first AD.
Someone's family is sick and they can't do it.
>> Correct.
>> So what is an AD?
>> He's basically going to assist me as a director. Everything >> assists to the director.
>> Correct.
>> Okay. I need a first AD. someone's family is sick. So that's different from an internship.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> I mean, we do have internships for where people don't get paid and then you have internships where they do get paid. Most people now pay their interns. Okay. And when you met because clearly the last email that I just read suggests that you were approaching the door and you're two minutes away and then you met the defendant. Tell me about that conversation.
>> Caption coming up. The thing that I find most troubling here actually for the both of you is he says that you told him not to tell the rest of the crew that he had co because they would freak out.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Christian and Juan. Christian Sanchez claims filmmaker Juan Vasquez owes him for unpaid work.
One says Christian was an unpaid intern.
>> Okay. And when you met, because clearly the last email that I just read suggests that you were approaching the door and you're two minutes away and then you met the defendant.
>> Tell me about that conversation.
>> So, we met, we sat down, I kind of told him a little bit about my background like I told you before. He kind of went over like what he was expecting me to do.
>> Just a second. I want you to tell me what he told you that he wanted you to do.
>> Managing the set, creating schedules, calling extras, making sure that they were there on time.
>> Is that what you told him?
>> Yes. Basically assisting me whatever I needed.
>> Okay, that sounds like more than a PA.
>> We didn't ask for PAS. We didn't >> But what you outlined was clearly more.
What did you agree to pay him?
>> Never agreed to pay him anything. So, >> how could you do that?
>> He was an intern. He was presented to me as an intern.
>> No, no, no. Not after this text message.
He said he was looking for an internship and you said to him, "I have a better role for you. I need a first ad.
Someone's family is sick." Whose family was sick? The name of the person?
>> I don't recall.
>> Okay. When you did a budget, did you have a budget for a first ad?
>> Uh, no, we don't.
>> Careful. Did you have a budget for a first ad? No, not that I remember. I usually don't use a first ad. So, the terminology >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, you know who produces this show? You want to be careful with what you say around people, you know, who are buying your product.
>> Sure.
>> Right. Cuz you're going to be presenting them with budgets eventually, hopefully for you. There's no question that if I got this text from you, Mr. Vasquez, I would say, "Oh my god, I'm going to get a different job, a better role because he says I have a much better thing.
Somebody who was supposed to do it got sick. They can't do it." That's a much different thing from what you describe as bringing the iced tea and setting up the coffee. That's a different role.
What did he tell you he was going to pay you, sir?
>> He told me verbally. He told me that >> look careful when you talk to me at that meeting that day. What did he tell you?
He was going to pay you >> $150 per day for 14 days.
>> How many days did you actually work on the set?
>> On the set I worked 14 days.
>> It's a lie.
>> I got CO on the last two days and he asked me to work from home and I still scheduled and did all that stuff.
>> I never asked to work from home.
>> You got CO the last two days. So, you were actually there 12 days >> physically there, but I was still working for him.
>> Who knows? How do I know that?
>> I have I would like to see the work that you did from home on day 13 and 14.
>> 1,800 for 12 days, not including >> Okay.
>> On those specific days, I have it on my phone. Could I pull it up?
>> No. I want to see what you did. If you did work, you sent emails out. You sent scheduling out. And you would probably have to have a conversation with your boss and say, "I have CO, but I'll do whatever I could do from home."
>> I have all of that.
>> I'd like to see it.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Your honor, if I may interject.
>> Yeah.
>> So, he shows up to the set sick with CO gets everybody sick. I had a call the next day of filming because of that.
>> Are you talking about after he was there for 12 days?
>> Yes, I'm talking about that particular that particular part. But >> I'm talking about he was there for 12 days. He didn't have CO for 12 days.
>> We don't know that. Well, who knows that? I don't know if you have CO.
>> We just got tested, your honor.
>> Who knows if you have CO? Who knows if I have CO? All I know is I came to work today. I expect to be paid. I wouldn't come to work if I was sick and laying in bed and feeling nauseous. And >> your honor, if you had a a remote position, that'd be different. He didn't have a remote position.
>> I'm not talking about his two days. He was there 12 days.
>> He did it throughout the course of the project. He was never on time. He never >> I don't care if he was never on time. If he was never on time, then you fire days he was not on set.
>> Listen to me. He's never on time. Then you tell him don't come back after the second day. But if you let him come for 12 days and do whatever he does, I mean, you know, Mr. Vasquez, I'm going to make this as painless for you as possible.
There are some employees that I have had over the years that were terrific, >> some not so terrific, some terrible. the terrible ones who were really terrible who I would have liked to have fired period. I couldn't do it because of human resources.
>> They have a whole protocol volumes like an encyclopedia bratannica what you have to go through to fire somebody who's not doing their job >> right >> but you have to pay him until you can fire. If you have him come to work even if he's doing a terrible job you still have to pay him. Now, if he goes home because he's sick and you're not giving him sick leave and you don't agree for him to work remotely, that's on him.
Does that sound fair to you?
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> I'm so glad. Unless, of course, you agree to have him work remotely, then you have to pay him for 14 days, >> right?
>> It starts right there, your honor, and then the next two days follow it.
>> Kevin brings Christian's phone to Judy.
She reviews a string of text messages.
>> JV, that's you.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> JV, that's you. So, you did in fact confer with him from home. Tell him to order food. You're picking it up. I don't care if he worked for you for a half hour. He's not your friend. The thing that I find most troubling here actually for the both of you is he says that you told him not to tell the rest of the crew that he had CO because they would freak out.
>> Correct.
>> And he didn't tell the rest of the crew that he had CO. Well, you told him not to.
>> And he said, "Okay." Well, you have to know as a good citizen that's not the right thing to do. You do understand that.
>> And you know, by not having him on the set, we thought that was proper protocol.
>> No, you're supposed to notify people who you came into close contact with. You know, I remember they had this whole contact tracing. I know people call >> all the time. The reality is we were out together on the set.
>> What >> the the reality is everybody that was on the set, we did discuss the fact that he had CO. So, people knew that.
>> I don't care whether people knew that.
It says here, "I won't say anything to the rest of the crew like you said."
>> Yeah, cuz I >> I understand that you don't want everyone to freak out. I just find that >> troubling. In any event, >> it's just like killing bomb in an airport. You know, that would create a bigger hysteria.
>> Well, that's what is a bomb in the convey to everybody on the set what was going on. The reality is presented as an intern. Never said paid internship. Once he got on the set, he tried to strongarm us, then demanded the money. Once he had all the information on the set, we we didn't hire him. We didn't post a job for him. We made a job for him cuz a producer called me up. This when nepotism goes bad. This kid couldn't even order pizza, your honor. He spent $300 at Domino's. Who spends $300 at Domino's?
>> Mr. Vasquez. Then you fire him.
>> I should have.
>> Do you understand?
>> I should have fired.
>> Then your recourse is to fire him. And you're a little company that doesn't have a HR department. Say, you know what? What's your first name?
>> Christian. Christian, Christian, you're a nice guy, but it's not working out here. I'm going to pay you for three days because that's what you were here.
Don't come back. I'm going to get somebody else.
>> And you should have did that your own.
>> But you that's what you should have done.
>> Yes.
>> But that's not what you did. You continued to use whatever limited services he provided even when he was home with CO. Even when he went home with CO, you continued to ask him to do things for your company and for the film. And that you can't do without compensating him.
>> Caption coming up.
>> You gave him a job. And if he didn't work out, say, what was the name of that woman from that show that says you're fired or something?
>> The weakest link.
>> Weakest link. That was the lady. She was terrific. Well, anyway, you say you're fired. That's easy.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Christian and Juan.
>> Christian Sanchez has accused his former employer, Juan Vasquez, of not paying him for 14 days of work. One claims Christian was incompetent and never a paid employee.
>> Okay. Even when he went home with CO, you continued to ask him to do things for your company and for the film, and that you can't do without compensating him. You can't. Okay. So, you owe him $2,100 cuz I assume you paid him nothing. Now, let's get to the second part of your claim, which is defamation that I'd like to see. I mean, if you're going to be a producer, if you're going to make films, sir, you have to understand say you're not working out, you're fired. Something that I would love to be able to say a lot right away without risking my house and my and my car and my dog.
>> I was taking him on as a as a as a basically >> I don't care what you were thinking.
That's not what you said.
>> Asked me to take him on. That's why I took him on.
>> He actually called me and told me how I was doing.
>> It doesn't require an answer. Okay. And I can show the messages how he came to be on the set. He was presented.
>> I don't just a second. I don't care how he was presented to you. If your aunt Tilly said, "Do me a favor. This is my god." He hasn't been able to get a job since he graduated from college. He's home. He's home in the attic of his parents house playing the guitar. We want him to have a job. It's irrelevant.
You gave him a job. And if he didn't work out, say, "What was the name of that woman from that show that says you're fired or something?" Well, anyway, you say you're fired.
>> That's easy. Do we remember the name of that woman from England who had a show where she said, "You're out. Get out." I don't know. She was terrific. Let me see. [laughter] >> The weakest link.
>> Weakest link. That was the lady.
Perfect. Thank you.
And that's a direct text message to him that I I never posted on social media.
>> Oh, it >> was actually a group text.
>> Just a second. So, Mr. Vasquez in here, you say to him, this is the second part of his case, which is for defamation.
And that's okay. He didn't defame you.
>> Okay, >> sir. He said they're taking you out of the credits, but you were never promised credits.
>> In the contract, it says I am.
>> Let me see. In the contract, it said you'll be in the credits. And I didn't even know there was a contract. I thought you >> He's also done this before.
>> Shh.
>> Kevin brings a document to Judy. She reviews it.
>> It says you employed him as an actor.
>> Your honor, I'm signing actor agreements every day. He put that in front of me to sign. Why? Why would I sign an actor agreement for a first lady?
>> Just a sir, is this the agreement he put in front of you or did you?
>> I signed act agreements every day on the >> You're a business guy.
>> Yeah, >> I'm a business lady. That looked like an actor. That's why I signed it.
>> Actor agreement. That's what it says.
>> Yeah. He's not an actor.
>> Don't sign it.
>> It says you agree to pay him $150 a day for 4 days of shooting.
>> 14 >> 14 days of shooting and that he will be responsible for paying all the taxes on it. So, he was going to be paid.
>> I didn't write that out. Your honor >> Kevin, would you show this to him, please, and see if he can identify that as his signature? I'm going to check here to see if it's a signature. It looks like a signature to me, Mr. Vasquez. It appears to be the same signature that you use to sign the answer.
>> Yes, your honor.
>> So, that's your signature?
>> Yes, your honor.
>> Okay. And this says, "Actor shall receive a credit for acting in the film." Well, that's ridiculous. You didn't act in the film, right?
>> No, ma'am.
>> Well, we're going to strike that out because you can't perform that because you didn't act in the movie.
>> Do you understand?
>> I understand, ma'am.
>> Okay. Very good. And it's clear that whatever this says based upon this, if you delete one part of a contract, let me see if I remember. If part of a contract, Sarah, is impossible to perform, >> then it's not fully integrated >> and one party acts on that contract and you can retain part of the contract because of services that were rendered pursuant to the contract, you can eliminate one part.
>> So I can eliminate the actor part of getting credit. So you're not getting credit on this. you're entitled to the $150 a day. As far as the defamation is concerned, sir, what he said in here was clear. He said he was told by someone else, which is very possible, and the only thing that you can produce for me today is this fellow who said you tried to put together a little bit of a drug transaction. Are you >> No.
>> Well, then you're irrelevant. you can produce because if he says told me then he's not saying you did this he put it in a text to you that this is what he was >> told whenever I served him the night before the very next morning he sent me that text message >> I don't care I don't care he's not a great businessman judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $2,100 thank you very much >> this court is ajourned >> outside the courtroom Christian then won >> I thought she was very fair I'm really really happy with how the judgment came out.
>> He was an intern. Interns aren't paid.
It [music] never said paid internship.
>> He tried to avoid signing a contract at first.
>> The reality is with a budget, we would love to pay the kid, but he cost us more money than he was actually worth.
>> He lies constantly. Nothing's ever his fault. He always makes up a new scenario in which he's the victim.
>> He couldn't even order pizza. I mean, who spends $300 at Domino's?
>> Handed me the actors agreement. Told me to sign it.
>> No more nepotism. I if I don't know him, I've embedded them. I don't want them on the project.
>> Little bit weird, but it had everything.
and his kid is gonna [music] go be a cyber security guy.
>> Always save your receipts, dude. Always just keep any sort of communications, even if it's a phone call, send a text or an email that just recaps what you said.
>> I was so happy to vent for a moment on the current inability to fire inept people and to fire people who aren't doing their job, which has been getting worse over the last quarter century. I actually believe that HR is vital service for people who are unjustly based on something other than their performance treated badly by an employer >> and harassment in the workplace I think is >> alone to cover funeral costs >> court order all rise >> have a seat please >> Kevin approaches the bench >> hello judge case number 209 Jenny Spencer versus Jenny >> thank you >> you're welcome >> Miss Spencer are you related to Mr. Jennings.
>> I am.
>> How?
>> He's my cousin.
>> How?
>> On our dad's side. So, his father and my father, that's how we're related.
>> How are they related?
>> So, his dad and my father are pretty close in age, but they are cousins themselves, but my dad is pretty young, so they're close. My dad and his father are close in age, so they were more like brothers.
>> I still don't understand. My father and his father were first cousins, but I was raised by my grandparents. So, that's why we're close.
>> Okay. So, your fathers were first cousins.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Your mother passed away?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> When?
>> Mother's Day on 2020.
>> Were you close to your mother?
>> I was very close.
>> Did you live together?
>> I was taking care of her for 8 years while she was >> So, you were living with her?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> How old was she when she passed away?
>> 58.
>> What did she pass away from?
>> Her arteries were had blockage. She had surgery twice and they couldn't do third surgery. Plus, she had three strokes.
>> When you were taking care of your mother, was that a full-time responsibility?
>> Full-time. She had a coloss bag and plus she was in a walker before she had the strokes.
>> Was it just you and your mother living together?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Was it in her home?
>> It was in my home.
>> In your home?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Was that an apartment?
>> It was a It was a house >> that you rented?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> How did you and your mother support yourself? I'm an RF technician. So, I worked when I could be away from home.
But when she got real bad sick, where she couldn't even walk, I couldn't even work. So, I couldn't even go out of town. So, I work on the road a lot. And she gets a disability check, which is about $1,800, which wasn't much at all for us to survive.
>> Are you back at work now?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Who are you working for?
>> Myself. I'm a contractor. Extreme Communications.
>> When your mother passed away, Mr. Jennings, are you an only child?
>> Yes, ma'am. She passed away in the hospital.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> At that time, you didn't have money for her funeral arrangements?
>> No, ma'am.
>> And you didn't have the funds to even take her body out of the hospital?
>> No, ma'am.
>> So, what did you do?
>> Well, I thought I'd had insurance settlement. I was going to take care of that cuz she did have two barrel plots.
But when we went to >> Who's we?
>> Me and Angela.
>> Who is Angela?
>> She's my fiance. But when we went up there to We've got two burial plots.
When we went there to turn those in mortuary, they added on 10 or $15,000 to actually bury her and I I was unable to do that because her insurance had lapsed two or three months, you know.
>> So, you didn't have money to take care of your mother's funeral expenses. Do you want to tell me how the plaintiff got involved with that?
>> I told Tracy exactly what?
>> Yes.
>> At some point, your mother passed away on Mother's Day in 2020.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Did you contact Miss Spencer or did she contact you? She contacted me >> when >> during the process of me suffering because I didn't have the cash to front my mother's funeral.
>> Well, you know, it's hard for me to ask the question, how did she know about that? But >> were there other relatives?
>> I was posting things on Facebook.
>> Okay.
>> So, what did you post on Facebook >> that I was trying to do a GoFundMe to help with my mother's funeral?
>> And how much after she died did you post something on Facebook?
>> Uh, nothing much. Not at all.
>> A day, two days, five. Wait. Oh. Oh.
About 3 or 4 days after.
>> Did you see that? Is that why you contacted him?
>> That is not why I contacted him.
>> Okay. So, why don't you tell me why?
That's not what you said in your papers.
So, I'm curious. Why did you contact him?
>> As he said, his mother had been sick for quite some time. So, her death wasn't completely unexpected. We had been following her progression on Facebook.
And Chris is correct. He had been taking care of his mother. They were very close. But when the family saw on Facebook that she had passed, nothing got posted about funeral arrangements and some of the members of my family who were not on Facebook contacted me and said, >> "Don't tell me what they said to you."
>> Sorry.
>> So, you were contacted by members of your family.
>> Correct. That are not on Facebook asking about care.
>> Don't tell me what they asked.
>> I'm sorry.
>> As a result of those conversations, did you contact him? eventually. I did not contact him immediately because I just didn't feel like it was the right time.
I knew when was it in June?
>> So, it was right after her passing. I contacted his stepbrother and stepsister first because when I had not seen anything for 3 days about funeral arrangements rather than calling Chris who I knew would have his hands full handling matters. I actually contacted his stepbrother and stepsister and I said do you know anything about funeral arrangements?
>> Nobody did.
>> And so they didn't know anything and I suggested that I reach out to Chris. I said well I hate to do that. This is a really bad time, but I did it anyway.
And so I called Chris and I said, "Chris, I'm sorry to bother you. I know you're going through a lot, but some people are asking me about your mother's arrangements and I don't know what to tell them. It's been several days. Have you picked out a mortuary?" And he started crying immediately, understandably so. He said, "Tracy, I'll be honest with you. I don't even have the money to get her out of the hospital." He said, "It's going to cost $500 to get her out." I said, "Okay."
And I believed without a shadow of a doubt that he truly didn't have the money because they had a very tight relationship. So, there was no question in my mind if he had the $500 to get her out, he would have. I said, "Chris, it's okay. I'll loan you the money. I'll call the hospital. I'll take care of it. Just calm down." And so, we hung up. I called the hospital and I told them, I said, "I'm not next of Ken, but I'm going to take care of this matter on behalf of my cousin." So, here's my credit card for $500. And the morg told me that I couldn't pay $500. That that was only their portion of having her body released from the morg. That they could only send her body to a funeral home.
>> They have to send it someplace. If they're releasing it, they have to send it someplace.
>> Correct. They said that she had been there for so long that she needed to go within the next day because they can only stay there for 5 days. And >> Got it.
>> Sorry. Okay. So they said she needs to go now and if you don't come get her or have a funeral home come get her, we're going to have to send her to Spartanberg County and they're going to be in charge of her remains and the next of Ken is at risk of being arrested for abandonment.
And so I freaked out. I called Chris back. I said, "Chris," I said, "It's not $500." I said, "They're not going to let us get her. And do you know you're close to being arrested?" And you know, I felt really bad about that. Where do you live?
>> Spartanberg, South Carolina.
>> Just take a look and see if you can find out next of kin responsibility.
Surprised that you were given that information from the hospital. I may be wrong about that.
>> Yes. So, I called Chris and I said, "The morg is not going to let us get her body without a funeral home. Do you have a funeral home picked out?" And I think at that time he said he didn't. And so he made some phone calls. Chris did. And then he called me back and he said, "I found a mortuary." And so the mortuary that he selected was the one that ended up taking care of her remains. And so instead of me loaning him $500 to get her released from the hospital, I ended up getting stuck with $1,500 because I had to pay the mortuary.
>> Okay. He found a mortuary.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> When you called the mortuary, did they tell you what it would cost? I didn't call the mortuary to find out anything about that. She did and she agreed to pay everything.
>> No, just a second. I'm not getting there.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> I'm not there yet.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> So, the question is, did you call the mortuary?
>> I called them to see if they could take care of my mother.
>> That's what I asked you. I said, did you call the mortuary?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> And after you spoke to the mortuary, you called the plaintiff back.
>> Sure did.
>> Okay. When you called the mortuary and she had already told you it would be $500 to get your mother's remains from the morg, but then you had to take her remains someplace. You couldn't take them in your car, right?
>> They had to go someplace.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> And common sense would suggest that you would ask what their cost was, what their fee was.
>> Mhm. Is not an answer.
>> For a cremation, >> for whatever, and they told you it was how much? They told me for the cremation, it was about $1,500 for cremation.
>> Okay. And then you called your cousin back.
>> Yes.
>> And let me hear the conversation as you recall it between yourself and your cousin.
>> Okay. I called her back and told her that I didn't have the money to take care of that. And she goes, "Don't worry about it, Chris. I'll take care of it."
It's exactly what was said.
>> Now, was that before or after you set up a GoFundMe page?
>> That was before.
>> So, she took care of the bill.
>> Yes. So this was 5 days after your mother's death.
>> You said it was after.
>> So it was five or six days before your mother's body was taken to the funeral home for the purposes of cremation. How many days after that did you start a GoFundMe page?
>> Couple days.
>> Two days. And what was the language in the GoFundMe page?
>> To help take care of my mother's funeral.
>> Well, >> and Mr. Jennings, if what you just said to me previously was, read back to me, Whitney, what Mr. Jennings said about the conversation that he had with her.
It started with, "Don't worry about it."
>> He said, "Okay." I called her back and told her that I didn't have the money to take care of that. She said, "Don't worry about it, Chris. I'll take care of it." That's exactly what was said.
>> Okay, good. So if she said she would take care of it, why would you post an outcry for money from strangers to bury your mother >> to go during the process of getting that money is exactly what >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Let's follow what you said, >> Mr. Jennings. What you told me was that you had the conversation, >> she took care of the bill, two or three days later, you started a GoFundMe page for your mother's funeral expenses. Is that not what he said?
>> Yes. Said >> if it was a gift to you, >> Mhm.
>> I'm not understanding why we would start a GoFundMe page.
>> It's because it wasn't taken care of within 2 or 3 days. Ma'am, >> what do you mean it wasn't take care of?
>> She didn't pay the bill within 2 or 3 days is the thing. That's the reason I did that.
>> Well, they wouldn't release.
>> They wouldn't release the body unless they got paid with a credit card.
>> I understand that, but I was trying >> Just a second. That a backup for what?
just in case you didn't fall through.
>> Mr. Jennings, now you're getting cute with me.
>> No, ma'am.
>> Now you're getting cute with me.
>> And later today, >> he said to you, "I need to borrow $2,300."
>> And you said to him, "Why can't you ask anybody else?"
>> And he said to you, >> his girlfriend's father, if he were to ask him, he would pry and find out that he was addicted to cocaine.
>> A courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Tracy and Chris.
>> Tracy Jennings Spencer says her cousin Chris Jennings owes for a loan to cover his mother's funeral costs. Chris claims [music] it was a gift.
>> Now, the plaintiff had to give the hospital her credit card. Is that correct?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Mhm.
>> So, before they released the body, which they had to do within a day, they had her credit card. And it wasn't until after that that you started a GoFundMe page.
>> Okay. And don't raise your hand.
And how much money did you receive from this GoFundMe page?
>> About $200.
>> Okay. And you received $200 within what period of time?
>> Within probably three weeks.
>> How much of that $200 did you give to Miss Spencer?
>> Zero.
>> And your total cost was $1,500. Is that correct? judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $1,500.
>> This court is adjourned.
>> Tracy, then Chris.
>> Well, I'm very pleased that she saw what really did happen.
>> I think everything went exactly as planned.
>> I tried to step up in a time of desperation and in an emergency situation and look where it got me.
>> Everything's fine.
>> I think we'll be able to move past. I mean, at the end of the day, he's still my cousin. He's still my blood and I'm always going to [music] love him. Judy and Sarah, >> I actually didn't need the answer to that question that I threw out at you with regard to whether child is responsible for the remains of their parent because it was just clear. You know, when you get them to do a timeline for you, a lot of stuff unravels.
>> It all unraveled because what was the reason for starting a GoFundMe page? If, as he alleged in his answer, she volunteered to pay for the funeral unless he felt an obligation. Now, the obligation had to be as a result of that conversation that he would start a GoFundMe page. Anyway, unfortunate that she seemed like a very nice lady, very responsible, and she was very caring towards him. Shouldn't have ended up here.
>> Case number 2010, Hickman versus Vensoff. All parties, please step forward.
>> Vanessa Hickman is suing her trainer, Dylan Vensoff, for an unpaid loan.
>> Miss Hickman, your case is relatively simple. You claimed that you made a loan to the defendant who was your personal trainer when he said he was in a financial bind and he needed rent money and he made the loan and he paid some.
His wife paid some.
>> Correct.
>> He made a couple of payments but there is still a substantial balance.
>> Correct.
>> Mr. Zenlaf said that this was not a loan but prepayment for his training services and that you sort of backed out of the training/nutrition program. So that's your problem. You lose your money. That's your defense, right?
>> Yes.
>> Just curious before I get started with this case. How much do you get per hour for personal training?
>> No, don't look over there. I want you to know that I know all about this.
Everybody that I know except me has a personal trainer. I work out every day.
I don't take instruction well. So, I don't have a personal trainer. I have a husband who had a personal trainer. All my friends have personal trainers. So now I want you to answer my question.
Unless there's something extraordinary about you, which there is not. How much do you get per hour for personal training?
>> $75.
>> That's a reasonable figure.
Justformational purposes. How much money did you take from Miss Hickman?
>> How much money did I take?
>> Yes. How much money did you take from me? I haven't decided what it's for, but money exchanged between you, she has proof of how much it was, and you. How much money?
>> I believe it was $2,300. Is that right?
Correct. And on what date did she give you $2,300?
>> I believe sometime at the end of last year or was close to the beginning of this year. Somewhere along that time.
>> Date November 22nd, 2021.
>> And at that time, how long had you been training her? Since when? When did you start with her as a client?
>> I think like the beginning of summer last year. So I'd say >> date >> July 2021.
>> Beginning, middle, or end?
>> Beginning.
>> July, August, September, October. So, you had been training her for four months?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Up until November 22nd, how much money had she given you for training? Did she pay you by the week? Did she pay you by the month? How did she pay you >> upfront? First, >> okay, monthly. In July?
>> Yep.
>> Not Yep. That's not Yep. Yep. You say to your friends or to your wife.
>> So, in July when you started, she gave you how much?
>> 500.
>> For the month of July?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> The month of August, how much did she give you?
>> 500. Is that correct?
>> Correct.
>> September, >> same amount, ma'am.
>> 500. October, >> same amount.
>> November, >> same amount.
>> The beginning of November.
>> Yeah.
>> No, not Yeah. is not an answer. The beginning of November, did she give you $500?
>> No, cuz that's when we had the agreement.
>> No, no, no. Don't give me agreement.
Nonsense. The beginning of July, she gave you $500.
>> Beginning of August, she gave you $500.
Beginning of September, she gave you $500. The beginning of October, she gave you $500. How much did she give you in the beginning of November? This $2,300 was not paid until November 22nd. How much did she give you the beginning of November?
>> Then it must have been $500.
>> Is that correct? Correct.
>> So now she has given you $2500.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> For 5 months, she's given you $2500.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Great. Now, I want you to tell me what happened in November after you gave him the $2,500. So, we agreed to $100 monthly payments.
>> This is in November.
>> November. After we signed the agreement.
>> What agreement?
>> The agreement was that >> No, I want to see the agreement. Don't tell me what it was. I'd like to see it.
>> Vanessa hands a document to Kevin, who brings it to Judy. She dons her glasses, then reviews it.
>> Who wrote this?
>> I did.
>> Well, I don't actually understand it. It says, "I, Mr. Vensoff hereby accept $2,300 from my client Vanessa Hickman in trade and paid in advance for training. This will cover meal plans, planned workouts, in-person training, check-ins, and virtual check-ins from November 22nd, 2021 to May 15th, or one month of training and payment plans of no less than $100 a month starting 12221.
I agree to pay back the full amount in 12 months. I actually don't understand what that means because you agreed >> to pay back the full amount in 12 months by paying her no less than $100 a month starting December 2021. First part says you're accepting this $2,300 from your client in trade and paid in advance for training, but that you will pay her $100 a month and be finished paying her in 12 months by 11:22 2022. Okay. So, you wrote this up?
>> Yes.
>> I don't understand it because it doesn't make sense.
>> Of course.
>> So, there had to be a reason why you picked this $2,300. He's been training you July, August, September, October, and November. You paid him $500 each month or about $120 a week, and all of a sudden, there's a $2,300. What is there something that I said funny?
>> Dylan's wife's eyes widen.
>> All of a sudden, there's $2,300. Tell me how the $2,300 came about.
>> So over the course of those months, we became good friends. I see him three times a week. We get to know each other, talk, open up, and we're very friendly with each other. He opened up about me about having financial hardships.
>> No, he'd opened up. He said to you, >> "Yeah, he said to me, I need to borrow $2,300."
>> And you said to him, >> "Why can't you ask anybody else?" And he said to you, >> his girlfriend's father, if he were to ask him, he would pry and find out that he was addicted to cocaine.
>> That's what he told you.
>> Correct.
>> And what did you say to him?
>> Oh, okay. So, if I give you this money, we're going to write an agreement to cover me in case you don't pay me back.
>> And what did he say?
>> Okay. And that day on November 22nd, we wrote out the agreement. He >> No, you wrote the agreement.
>> Absolutely. I wrote it down and he gave me a photo of his driver's license that day. And >> you have a copy of that driver's license?
>> I do have a photo on my phone. Yes.
>> I'd like to see it.
>> Of course.
>> Vanessa hands her phone to Kevin who brings it to Judy.
>> So you were working and he was working.
He was making money. So if you're the wife, you say, "What do you mean? We [music] need money for rent. I'm working. You're working. What's it all about?" Did you know he had a drug problem?
a courthouse. The Judy Justice logo appears in the courtroom. Vanessa and Dylan.
Vanessa Hitman claims her trainer Dylan Vensloff owes for an unpaid loan. Dylan says [music] it was a trade agreement and not a loan.
>> Okay, Mr. Vensloff, understanding what I said to you before that everybody that I know has a trainer. Everybody except me.
Nobody that I know has the driver's license of their trainer. Nobody.
And I'm very old. Now, can you give me a logical reason why the plaintiff would have a copy of your driver's license in her phone >> to make sure that the trade agreement stays?
>> What's the trade agreement?
>> The trade agreement was that uh she was going to give me the money and I was going to >> just a second. Let's go back for a second.
>> Yeah, no problem.
>> So, what she says in part was accurate.
Is that what you're telling me? in part >> that you became friends, you would talk to her, you had a girlfriend, you knew he had a girlfriend, >> correct?
>> You asked her for money.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Different amount of money because you were in financial difficulty.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> And that she asked you why couldn't you ask your girlfriend's father? Cuz she evidently knew that based upon the fact that you were friends that you're the wife, girlfriend, whatever. Your father has money.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Why couldn't you ask the girlfriend's father? Right. She asked you that question.
>> Yes.
>> And did you say to her because I didn't want him to pry?
>> Yes.
>> Because I have a cocaine habit.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Okay. And so she gave you the $2,300.
>> Yep.
>> Not Yep.
>> Yes, ma'am. Sorry.
>> Perfect. And that was on the 22nd of November of last year. after she gave you that money and you were supposed to according to this agreement make $100 a month payments to her that would that's what it says.
>> Yeah. If I was unavailable to >> No, it doesn't say there's nothing here that says unavailable.
>> There's not there's nothing that's why I don't understand this agreement. Yeah.
You see not Yeah. That's why I don't understand this agreement because one talks about training and workouts and one talks about you agreeing to pay her back within 12 months at no less than $100 a month. So, it doesn't make any sense. So, now I have to figure out what it was that really happened. Do you understand?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Okay. So, this paper >> Yeah.
>> says something about $100 a month. Now, did you ever give her $100 a month?
>> Yes. First month. In what months did you give her $100 a month?
>> I think it was the first three months.
>> And you gave it to her how?
>> Via Venmo.
>> Did he give you the first three months?
>> He gave me the last two months and his wife paid me the first month.
>> That would be you.
>> Yes.
>> Stand up, please.
>> Dylan's wife rises.
>> Tell me your last name.
>> Venoff.
>> When did you find out that your husband had taken money from the plaintiff? when she had sent me a message on Instagram asking for me to send her money that he was late on a payment.
>> And that was in what month?
>> I believe mid January. She messaged me.
>> January of 2022.
>> Correct.
>> And up until that time, your husband had not told you that he took money from the plaintiff.
>> That's a easy question.
>> I don't believe so. No, >> he had not. Well, that's what it sounded like. You didn't know about it because the first you heard about it was when she sent you a message. So he had not told you that he took money from her before. Now when you found out you confronted him about this, did you take money from the plaintiff?
>> I did.
>> And what did he tell you?
>> He told me that he had to pay for rent that month.
>> Were you living together?
>> We were already married.
>> Were you working?
>> I was.
>> So you were working and he was working.
He was making money. So if you're the wife, you say, "What do you mean we need money for rent? I'm working. You're working. What's it all about?" Did you know he had a drug problem?
>> That was when I found out.
>> Okay. Well, that's a fair question. And I like the honesty. Did you have discussions with him about that?
>> Yes.
>> Did he go into rehab?
>> Yes.
>> Great. When did he go into rehab?
>> He went um for a week in December into a detox and then he went for a month this last June, I believe, >> because he had a relapse.
>> Yes.
>> How long was it in June?
>> 30 days.
>> During December and June, had he ever been arrested?
>> No.
>> So, he did this voluntarily?
>> Yes.
>> Good for you.
>> Thank you.
>> Take a breath.
All fine. Your husband owes her $1,800.
That's what she's suing for. That's what he owes her. He knows he owes her that money. She was doing a good thing. She was being kind to him. And probably ultimately, if he stays clean, saved his life.
>> Reasonable, you know, because But for that, you wouldn't have found out. You wouldn't have forced him to take some action. Is that what happened?
>> Yes.
>> Do you have a drug problem?
>> I don't know.
>> Does your father still not like him?
>> They're best friends.
>> They're best friends.
>> Interesting. I'm absolutely shocked.
Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $1,800. We're finished.
>> This court is ajourned.
>> Vanessa then Dylan.
>> I thought that she handled it very well.
I didn't need [music] to go over all the details and she did that all for me.
>> Honestly, you know, it was a trade agreement which it clearly states in the first part, you know. So, I had the entire year.
>> I don't think that he could have sent me the payments. I had to keep >> to either pay her back or train her. Um, and she served me before the time the contract was even up.
>> Crying and messaging him for it. [music] I think court was where it needed to be settled.
>> All she wanted was the money back, but I told her I was completely available.
Then she moved out of the area.
>> He's a great trainer. Absolutely amazing trainer, hands down. Uh, borrowing money, not the smartest decision.
>> Well, I think he could have handled the situation [music] differently. Um, but I don't I think he was trying to do his best to get us out of a sticky situation.
>> You know, I think it's about time to find someone else. Judy and Sarah.
>> I remember my law school days. Sarah, not clearly, but I remember my law school days. And you know how important it is. I always say you should have a writing, but you're supposed to have a writing that's clear. And I know that there's a rule of law that if a contract or an agreement is ambiguous, that a third party can't figure out factfinder can't figure out what the intent of the parties was. Was it a training agreement which is what he said which is a lot of baloney? Was it a loan that you're allowed to go beyond that contract? So your experience in law school is much closer.
>> I did just study this. So it's true that if a fully integrated agreement meaning that it's clear the meeting of the minds between parties is clear to a third party factor
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