Chris Hayes Just FACT-CHECKED Zohran Mamdani Live On MSNBC About His Tax Plan

追加: 2026-05-18

[00:00:00]New York, for people for high earners in New York, rich folks, is the highest tax jurisdiction [music] in the country by far. I mean >> World in the world. In the world. Like Folks, this is big. MSNBC had Zohran Mamdani on for a town hall, and it couldn't have gone worse for him. Even progressive host Chris Hayes started pushing back on his mental gymnastics when it got impossible to ignore. So, today, we're covering it all.

[00:00:25]If you believe truth isn't partisan, hit the subscribe button, and let's jump right into it. Mayor Zohran Mamdani is back with me, and joining us are Kathryn Wylde, former president and CEO of the Partnership for New York City, who also worked on the mayor's transition team.

[00:00:35]You announced this new tax that's going to be on um second homes worth over $5 million, I think. Um Kathryn, I know that a lot of folks at the Partnership um were very nervous about the tax the rich agenda uh of of the mayor. What do you think of this new tax? Well, in general, taxes should not be presented as punitive. And I think generally, the taxpayers feel that if they have a legitimate reason for raising a tax uh at the Partnership, we supported, for example, congestion pricing to support the funding of the MTA. We supported Mayor Bloomberg after 9/11 had to raise the real estate tax to be able to bring back the city's services after the damages, rebuild Lower Manhattan. But, it was being clear that this is not punishment. This is something that's needed. The city has taken every step they can or the state to uh to save money where they can, to get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse.

[00:00:56]That's a solid point. And it's one many on the left constantly overlook.

[00:01:01]Beyond their ideological reasons for to taxing the rich, their biggest argument is to raise more revenue. But, with New York City already running one of the largest governments in the country, you can't convince any sane person that there isn't bloat to >> governments in the country, you can't convince any sane person that there isn't bloat to cut.

[00:02:01]Here's a simple one that that even a toddler could point out. Now, if we compare New York City's subway system to Tokyo's, not only is the operating budget tenfold, but the staffing levels are where things really get absurd.

[00:02:17]The city's subway employs roughly 50,000 people, while Tokyo's system runs around 11,000.

[00:02:25]I'll leave you to guess which one is profitable and which one runs on subsidies. But this does I mean the whole thing of people chanting tax the rich at the rallies, which they did, and putting out a video is like there's a little bit of it that's punitive.

[00:02:38]>> Throw her red meat there. It is Well, it is punitive, right? Well, you have to >> only eat red meat.

[00:02:43]I mean, there is something a little punitive about it. I I um you know, New York for people for high earners in New York, rich folks, particularly high wage earners, is the highest tax jurisdiction in the country by far. World's world in the world. Like it's there's literally nowhere in the world that the the marginal rate on a high income earner is higher than here. And that includes the social democracies of Europe, includes places that have all sorts of services like you you said. So, at a certain point it is there a limit, right? Is there some point that you cross where you do start to pay some real economic costs? I don't think that we are talking about that at this time, frankly.

[00:03:19]>> don't think we're near that limit.

[00:03:20]>> I I don't think that, you know, when when we talk about increasing personal income taxes on the top 1% of New Yorkers by 2% or we're talking about increasing the corporate tax the most profitable corporations, a lot of times what we're talking about doesn't even come close to what the tax rates used to be in this city or used to be in this country, right? For all the conversation of the now, we forget where we were in terms of this country's relationship to the tax. It's like he's completely disconnected from how basic economics actually works.

[00:03:47]Sure, there was a time when the top tax rate is 90%, but wealthy earners use loopholes and deductions to avoid paying anywhere near that full amount.

[00:03:58]And when you actually look at 2022's numbers, the {quote} evil 1% alone paid 40% of all federal income taxes. Expand that to the top 10% and you are looking at 97% of federal income tax revenue.

[00:04:16]That is the exact point Chris pointed to when asking the next question. And he made some solid arguments. Take a look.

[00:04:23]And there's things you can do on the policy side. You can tax some of those rich folks and you can create services, universal pre-K for for folks that are struggling. This sounds great. Yes.

[00:04:33]But, also you want to build middle-class jobs, right? Like if if it keeps going in that direction of a city of like Wall Street folks and billionaires and folks that are just like making minimum wage, that's a tough city to sustain.

[00:04:45]>> It's a tough city to sustain culturally, fiscally, financially. Like, how do you think about that about building a middle class here that's independent of taxing the rich, paying for services. Exactly.

[00:04:56]Chris kind of gets it because you can't endlessly run on {quote} taxing the rich while also promising wave after wave of new welfare programs that only deepen government dependence. Sure, a social safety net absolutely has its place.

[00:05:12]But, there has to be a balance. The thing is, when you dummy is far from being the first politician to sell voters on this kind of uh to utopian vision.

[00:05:22]And history makes it pretty clear he will not be the last. The problem is, we've already seen how these experiments tend to play out. And the results are rarely pretty.

[00:05:33]Bazar ran was slow to catch on to when Chris was talking about the conversation. So, he kept going on with over-the-top promises. I think that's at the heart of what we're looking to do.

[00:05:44]Because what the middle class represents to so many, not just New Yorkers, but Americans, is stability. It's dignity.

[00:05:50]It's the ability to not just go out there and work, but also have somewhere to come home to at the end of the day and be able to rest on top of that. And And not need the government to subsidize you directly, right? Or not be depending on programs. Well, I think the the beauty of a public good is that it should be so good that everyone uses it, right? To me, I don't want public goods to be something that you only use if you don't have enough money in your pocket.

[00:06:15]The dream of New York City is in many ways the dream of the subway at its best, right? Was It's the fastest way to get around. Right. Doesn't matter how much money you have. That's where you That's how you get to where you're going. And that's what we want child care to be. That's what we want so much of this city to be so that working class New Yorkers are not worried about whether they can survive in this city, but actually can they build a life in this city? That's what we want the answer to be. You could literally really see Chris trying to throw him a bone here. But Mondaire just kept digging deeper.

[00:06:46]What he seems to miss is that most people are fully capable of building stable lives when the government stops interfering with every aspect of their lives.

[00:06:56]Instead, his answers are more taxes, more control, and more dependence on ineffective government programs.

[00:07:04]Simply put, people don't want to be taxed into oblivion just to be handed back watered-down solutions.

[00:07:12]Things took an even more interesting turn when a Trump supporter got the chance to question Zohran directly, bringing the whole conversation full circle.

[00:07:21]But what I would say is if you can show beyond any reasonable doubt that if like if this whatever you're planning had to go to court, >> Mhm. that any New Yorker on the street can say, "You know what? I'm willing to pay that extra dollar." Yeah.

[00:07:37]>> That's That's a I mean, That's the big question, right? It's one of the highest tax jurisdictions in the country, right? New York City, just to be clear. It's got one of the highest municipal governments. It's not like this is a small government place. The question of like, are the services up to how much people are paying for them? And and I think it's it is something that I think about often because as much as I think about public goods, I think about public excellence, right? We don't want to try and convince a New Yorker in a conversation about the worth of something. We want to be able to prove it to them through what it is that we're delivering. And I think that's where it comes back to is that the taxes that we're calling for on the wealthiest of the wealthy, the most profitable corporations of those that do business here in New York, they are ones that we would then use that revenue to transform the lives of every New Yorker.

[00:08:25]At least he admitted that now is the time for action. But, throughout the entire town hall, he never clearly explained how his proposal translates into policy beyond repeating tax the rich and throwing around broad ideas.

[00:08:40]And that's where the danger lies with figures like Mondaire. Their promises can sound appealing from a distance, especially when so many people are struggling with affordability. But, once you look past the slogans, most of it stays in the realm of theory.