Ep.4 | Stephen B. Whatley – Healing Art & World Peace

[00:00:00]We're all good, Stephen.

[00:00:01]>> Hi, Verna.

[00:00:02]>> Thank you very much for coming in again.

[00:00:04]>> Oh, no, it's lovely to see.

[00:00:06]>> I'll let you explain to us what we what we're going to be seeing today.

[00:00:09]>> Well, we're going to see um something that's become predominantly my work and really is the basis of all my work and is my faith.

[00:00:18]And um I hope that it really enlightens people and possibly opens up people to this spiritual side of life that I truly believe in.

[00:00:31]Um and it's not an indoctrination because it's something that's come very naturally to me through my life experiences.

[00:00:40]So, I hope some of the paintings we're going to share um will sort of give a give a uh a broader picture of that, you know, so >> this an early part of your work or did this come later?

[00:00:53]>> This really, I suppose my faith in particular, I wasn't um my older relatives, my mother's um family um were all Christians. Um but my mother went to um a convent boarding school when she was and she wasn't she wasn't treated very well. And it slightly turned her away. She never actually said to my sister and I um for example, with Sunday school, she took us there, but she said you don't have to stay if you don't want.

[00:01:24]>> Okay, she gave you the option.

[00:01:25]>> yeah, so um >> But she didn't discourage it.

[00:01:28]>> No, no. And [clears throat] I never went to church regularly or anything. So, but the reason um this deep faith in me has developed really was I suppose you could say um since right the age of 16 when I tragically lost my mother um in a car accident and I was definitely looking for answers, but even before that um I can remember being a very deep young teenager walking around the garden looking up at the sky and um trying to search and sort of talking um I don't know if it was to God but um basically sort of saying I know there's something else and I also feel I'm going to live forever. So that was quite a sort of that was about 14.

[00:02:21]Maybe it was preparing um >> It's quite young. Because being that you so you weren't a regular church goer so you wasn't so you you really this faith come to you really yeah.

[00:02:31]>> Yeah I was a deep thinker and uh a dreamer and uh so so yeah so um in terms of my creative work um well anyway the faith discovery I kept searching all through art school um went through different channels uh even went to a Billy Graham >> No did you okay yeah.

[00:02:53]>> meeting which really just wasn't really for me at all and I still felt lost and I still was raising lots of questions and then people that came into my life quite a few Catholics and I was very attracted to the Catholic devotions um Jesus Mary and the saints and um yeah it's really really through a trying to survive my grief um that I was needed something to focus on and along the way I truly felt this development of an understanding and belief in God you know >> So when did you decide did you decide to become a Catholic did you >> I did I did actually yeah well actually it's quite after a long time and I'd go into churches and um pray to the different saints um and more and more I went to this Catholic church St. James's in Marylebone um uh people kept suggesting you really should convert and the delay was a feeling which was certainly misguided that I was somehow um uh rejecting my mother. We were Church of England.

[00:04:09]And of course, I know that my mother would be saying, "Whatever helps you, Stephen." You know, it's not going to change in any way.

[00:04:16]And um so with that realization, I finally after became Catholic Easter 2011.

[00:04:24]>> Okay. For for people watching this who potentially might be going through something like you went through, what what the process? What when you decided to become a Catholic, what did what did what did it did it entail?

[00:04:34]>> Well, basically they're like classes and um so I think it was a class of about 10 of us. So it would be after a church service or on a particular weekday.

[00:04:44]And we just talk about the different devotions, um the different uh prayers that are associated with being Catholic.

[00:04:53]And um in fact, there were Catholics that felt they were lapsed and um they'd always been Catholic that actually said to me they felt envious because I didn't have that early indoctrination that can at times be slightly severe, a lot of pressure and you know, potential guilt put on people a lot. Um so my faith is very very personal. Um you know, um and certainly what happened, I started feeling this need to express it through my art.

[00:05:30]And um probably the first um painting I did was in the millennium actually, Christmas 2000 and I painted Jesus, baby Jesus.

[00:05:42]So that was in a way a birth of this new body of work. And then since then in the last sort of let's say um 20 years, it's been a predominant part of um people that commission and find my work.

[00:05:55]>> An important part of your art.

[00:05:56]>> Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, so and it's it's um also I think um poignant that we're actually um doing this recording now during Easter which sometimes people think, you know, especially in the secular world Easter is just Easter day and Easter eggs and everything else.

[00:06:15]But it's actually lasts for 50 days, so we're still within Easter, so >> Absolutely. Do you want to walk us through Yeah. Some of your some of your paintings?

[00:06:23]>> What I feel with Easter is that it's um a passage from darkness to light, you know, so I thought what we could start I've painted several tributes to the crucifixion of Christ which is even with the deepest faith is hard to understand, you know, I remember a priest um at my church saying I've wrestled this all my life how the father could sacrifice his son, you know.

[00:06:52]But we are taught to believe that he died for our sins and to give us eternal life and um and that the cross should be seen as a sign of hope, you know, further on. So, I have painted several crucifixion paintings and um some of those you can see on my website, some sold, some available. This was one of the first that I >> And lift this up.

[00:07:15]>> of Christ, yeah. So, and this is actually painted very spontaneously.

[00:07:21]It's a big painting. Yeah.

[00:07:22]>> Yeah.

[00:07:23]>> Um on uh Good Friday which of course is again sort of incongruous. I always think that it's called Good Friday, you know, some people call it Black Friday or God Friday.

[00:07:35]Um so and it was totally obviously subliminally I had an imagination awareness of crucifixion paintings and things totally from my head because sometimes I will research things and work from traditional images but this was just totally from my heart and soul.

[00:07:55]And >> Is this available? You still have that?

[00:07:58]>> actually that's available because it hasn't been exhibited so there's so much of my work >> What sort of size is this?

[00:08:02]>> Oh this is 40 by 30 inches.

[00:08:05]>> Okay that's 102 by 76 centimeters.

[00:08:08]>> Yeah yeah so >> Oh it's nice nice.

[00:08:11]>> Yes it was just extremely moving for me because I felt as I painted I felt the exhaustion of Christ in that.

[00:08:21]And my heart and soul just I still now I mean I do certain prayers which I'll talk about later but um I will find myself saying in my personal prayers Christ I'm so sorry for his suffering.

[00:08:36]>> Did you do there any paintings you do like this where you feel you you you need to keep them?

[00:08:41]>> Oh yeah yeah and there's lots of my work that I don't want to part with you know so so I have a huge pretty prolific >> So if someone wanted one you they could get a print of it.

[00:08:51]>> Oh yeah well prints of works that have gone or they wanted one that I wanted to keep. Um so I mean a lot of my signed prints are my Catholic tributes that seems to be the predominant theme in recent years so >> Okay.

[00:09:05]>> Um yeah so yeah so >> Let's move on to something.

[00:09:10]>> Well this is again I thought we'd begin with Jesus because he's sort of in in a way you know the son of God and the >> Yeah.

[00:09:16]>> the top of everyone and absolutely right and and so this really is a painting of light of actually created on Easter day so again just from my imagination and prayers and uh this is actually owned by a Catholic priest in London who owns several of my paintings, and he was just so moved.

[00:09:39]He's And um in fact, I gave a talk at one of his churches, and uh he was so overwhelmed, so then he he actually said, "I'd actually like to look at some of your originals." And so, I took him a took him a private viewing of my works, and uh >> He's lovely.

[00:09:55]>> Yeah, so.

[00:09:56]>> And just so people know this, this not necessarily a massive reflection of the color. The color's a lot brighter. We're in this studio, so >> Yeah, well, actually, the light is good in here, I'm going to say. So, even though these are prints, this is pretty >> Yeah.

[00:10:09]>> close. Pretty close. Yeah.

[00:10:10]>> Good.

[00:10:11]Yeah. Okay.

[00:10:13]>> Yeah, I think you said the lighting is different.

[00:10:15]>> change it. Yeah, we did actually.

[00:10:16]>> It works.

[00:10:18]>> Right, so this one's lovely.

[00:10:20]>> Yeah, well, this is um the Sacred Heart of Jesus, which is a very uh Catholic um uh devotion.

[00:10:28]Originating um from the 17th around the 17th century.

[00:10:33]And it's really about the merciful heart of Jesus, so that his heart is full of love for us all and healing, but also for his sorrow as well, his broken heart.

[00:10:44]And there's quite an interesting story that I would love to share with everyone um for this one to give um hope.

[00:10:54]And um as you know, um I've had a lifetime fight with depression, and which thankfully, isn't reflected in my work at all. It's all about the light and >> wouldn't know it.

[00:11:05]>> Cuz I've got a lot of love in my heart and a lot of light. Um but on this day, I'd already this was just for me. I decided I'd never painted the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and I felt a need. I've been going through some very bad depression.

[00:11:21]Um and I thought this may give strength to me, but also to other people when I'm able to share it.

[00:11:28]And on the day that I'd sort of planned to do the painting. It was actually January 2010.

[00:11:36]Six snow outside.

[00:11:38]And I was that depressed, even though I everything was set up, you know, my easel, everything.

[00:11:43]But I thought, it's kind of I mean, I always feel at the foot of the cross cross before I begin a painting.

[00:11:50]Um but um it would have been very easy to say, oh it's it's just too much. I just have to leave it.

[00:11:59]And I looked out of all the window and thick snow.

[00:12:03]And I love birds, and there was a footprint um shape of the heart of of birds' prints out there.

[00:12:13]And actually, we may be able to intercept that for I actually have a photograph.

[00:12:17]>> you take that photograph?

[00:12:18]>> yeah, so that might be interesting for people to see because >> get that and put it on.

[00:12:22]>> Yeah, because a lot of people often say ask for signs, and I know I'm like that as well, you know, so at times.

[00:12:30]>> No, no.

[00:12:30]>> That for me was the push. I have to do it today.

[00:12:34]>> Yeah, that's the push.

[00:12:34]>> And that was it. So, now in order to do that, because um as I say, it's traditional that go a tradition that goes back centuries.

[00:12:43]Um you know, none of us know exactly the um what Jesus, anyone looked like. So, all you've got to base on is yes, your imagination, but I tend to look at traditional images, and I'll build a ser- a montage of historical images, and then I'll let my eye go around it. In particular, I focused on a um prayer card had been given to me by someone special in America.

[00:13:11]And that became a starting point, and then I just let the prayers lead me really, you know, so um but it was very, very moving, and I am I felt both the light coming from the heart, but also the sorrow of Jesus. And as you'll see in some of these paintings, often I feel compelled to paint a tear or two, you know, so and >> So, when you're when you're painting, are you getting that feeling all through the whole process from start to finish?

[00:13:41]>> Oh, yeah. I mean, it's it's just There are moments of great passion when I'm painting. There are moments of just stillness where I'm just barely touching the canvas and um but I know instinctively when it's complete. And so, this was in one day.

[00:13:56]It was quite a few hours, but it was And I think I didn't even realize at the time, but it's almost like darkness to light with the >> are you are you aware of the colors or are you just going with how you're feeling?

[00:14:07]>> Just instinctively. Yeah, yeah, I have a series of colors on my palette and >> go with what you know.

[00:14:13]That's amazing. Great.

[00:14:16]>> And so, this this is connected This was actually the the Sacred Heart of Jesus was acquired by the Carrollton School of the Sacred Heart in Miami, in Florida.

[00:14:26]And um the then principal, Sister Suzanne Cook, is a great admirer of my work.

[00:14:33]And she's also head of the Sacred Heart community across America.

[00:14:38]And she's been, if you like, spreading the word about my work, which is wonderful.

[00:14:43]And um she was so moved by this. It now hangs in their library.

[00:14:48]Um but she didn't actually want While it was waiting to frame, she said, "I want it in my office on an easel." And she said, "No, no."

[00:14:55]>> And um anyway, they went then on to just this painting, which is actually a Saint Sophie Madeleine Barat, and she was um one of the early um promoters of this devotion.

[00:15:09]Um and um in France.

[00:15:12]And um they went on to acquire this work as well. And this was This was 10 years later.

[00:15:18]And uh they'd asked me to share my work with them. You know, they said we must have that for our collection. So this hangs in their conference room. So I really I really >> Yeah.

[00:15:28]>> So it's a very grand room. So >> Is that a large painting?

[00:15:32]>> That's 30 by 24. So it's 76 by 61 cm. So >> So that's a nice size.

[00:15:39]>> these are both oil on canvas. So >> Yeah.

[00:15:41]>> And they're beautifully framed. Hal let framed them anyway. Framing can make or break. So >> Do you have an advice on framing?

[00:15:47]>> of these on your website? Oh, yes.

[00:15:49]>> Framed.

[00:15:50]>> Oh, yeah. No, some of them some of them some of the paintings as you saw with the >> Just give people an idea of what they're like in their frame.

[00:15:57]>> So but I always I always offer advising on framing so yeah. So >> Well, this one's slightly different, isn't it?

[00:16:04]>> Yeah, this is just I thought just glance at these cuz there's quite a lot here.

[00:16:09]But this is another tribute to the sacred heart. Again, just from my heart and so on. I started started in just charcoal. I love working in charcoal.

[00:16:19]And then as I came to the heart, I just thought I was thinking of blood and the the redness of the heart. So I suddenly just got this tube of red oil paint, put some on the palette, and used my fingers, and then just felt this heart grow and grow and grow. Got bigger and bigger.

[00:16:38]Um yeah, and it just it's really I call it sacred, the heart of Jesus. So cuz it's really about the heart, you know, so >> Well, when you when you you became a Catholic What what what did you find was different about being a Catholic and being a Church of England? What made you >> Um I think there seems to be more of a concentration devotion to if you like servants of Christ the different saints. I like a lot of the traditions of the saints and um and to be honest, because I didn't have a real sort of schooling in the Church of England.

[00:17:17]Um there wasn't a lot for me to compare to in a way. So, cuz I've been going to Catholic churches and praying in there and so that really was my sort of early discovery of church really. Should we move on to this one? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:31]And this painting is my latest painting of the Sacred Heart of Jesus which is current currently available.

[00:17:39]And what's interesting about this painting perhaps I think than any of the Sacred Hearts is that the emergence of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit I pray to the Holy Spirit before anything. Even before when I was on my way here I asked the Holy Spirit to guide and give me strength and [clears throat] um So, and it crept into the painting. I mean I love birds and the usual at symbol is the um is the dove though, you know. So, and I just felt that Jesus must have been led by the Holy Spirit. So, I found that he was just looking up. Again, with this painting I looked at different as many different images traditional images of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Put more together all different views and then my eye will go around and then I will use my imagination as well and something new usually happens.

[00:18:36]Well, where did where did the original um view of what Jesus looked like come from?

[00:18:43]Well, I think there is the Shroud of the Turin. I think it's I think it's Turin Shroud. Yeah.

[00:18:49]Yeah. Not that I've ever worked from that actually, but the truth is Bernard and I say this very humbly is I truly use prayer to guide me. So, I literally ask God please show me. Please show me to you, you know. And it's quite overwhelming.

[00:19:09]Quite often I feel like gosh, I feel especially we'll we'll come on to that, but with some of the saints that I haven't known at all that I'm guided to and shown, this is me.

[00:19:22]>> Okay. So, yeah. All right.

[00:19:24]>> Um So, and this is I thought just um continuing the theme of Jesus at this point, this is another um painting of well, a pastel actually of Jesus the Good Shepherd.

[00:19:38]And um yeah, so um I like that thought of his guidance and so he's holding the lambs.

[00:19:45]And it's you have to look quite closely into this image. But there are actually two faces of Jesus there. So, there's a very um I know it would be over um laying another image here, but there's just the profile just there and then looking outwards as well. So, I was basically trying to say he can look at he can look after all of us. However hard that is to understand. And I in my lowest moments always think how could Jesus be helping me when there's so many millions?

[00:20:17]>> Oh, yes.

[00:20:18]>> But to quote someone that you might find this interesting through our mutual Hollywood interest um I don't know if you remember the film actress Dolores Hart.

[00:20:29]>> Vaguely, yeah.

[00:20:30]>> And she was in a couple of Elvis Presley films in the '50s, very beautiful.

[00:20:35]Her last film, interestingly, she played Saint Clare of Assisi.

[00:20:42]And um but her faith grew so much that she literally left her film career behind, became a nun.

[00:20:49]And she was consecrated in 1970 and she's now um uh Mother Dolores Hart of um Connecticut, Bethlehem, Connecticut.

[00:21:00]Yeah. Yeah, so she left behind everything. But to quote her she said um [clears throat] if you're asking me if I understand God, we are dealing with mystery. I can't understand, but I have a faith.

[00:21:13]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, something happened.

[00:21:14]>> So, we are dealing with mystery, and I think, um, I'd like to say humbly, I feel in fact, my now retired um, uh, parish priest, Father Christopher Colvin, very kindly wrote in email He used to email me, and he secured the, um, acquisition of my painting of St. James for the church, which is shown, um, in the sanctuary on St. James's Day.

[00:21:42]But, um, he he just used to write an email every so often. He'd say, "Continue with your work. You're saying something new. I feel this is your vocation." So, that was a >> That's wonderful.

[00:21:52]>> So, and I think what's lovely, as well, is I've had people that are either agnostic or even atheists who say, "Well, I don't believe, but I love the colors. I love You are creating light, you know, for the world." So, I hope I'm doing well.

[00:22:09]>> Well, what How did you feel about that as an atheist? Do you ever talk to them in a >> Um, yeah, I did I mean, I I wasn't atheist. I would say I was, um, lost.

[00:22:21]>> Search. Searching.

[00:22:22]>> a lost lamb, you know, when I was a teenager.

[00:22:25]Um, but I definitely felt, um, there was something. So, there must have been some sort of calling or something, but, um, I think my overriding feeling is I hope that most people can find some sort of spiritual depth, because this life is pretty hard, the secular heart life, and the things we struggle with. There is definitely a comfort in being able to turn in faith and trust to God, and just >> And you find losing your mom pushed you further into >> Oh, yeah, absolutely. That was the the um tragic um catalyst. You know, it's But the thing about it is um now my faith governs all my work, whether I'm painting someone's portrait like yours, Bernard, or any um um architecture, whatever. I start by praying and praying for help and >> So, what what after you before you turned became a Catholic, how was people's reaction to you when you decided to become a Catholic?

[00:23:30]>> But I think it you know, people were so aware of how sensitive I was and everything. I mean, you know, um there's only a small circle of people that actually sort of came like it that I knew. So, it's just so become so prevalent now. I mean, if you Google my name, Stephen B. Whatley, it's just whoosh, so much comes up about my Christian work because it has become But I think I am saying something new, so I hope it's accessible to um anyone that's not necessarily even Catholic, you know, which is why actually I don't because I wasn't born Catholic, on my website there's a page with a if you like a galaxy of heavenly stars.

[00:24:15]And um uh so many works to see, but I don't call it Catholic tributes. I don't want to um banish anyone else. So, it's just called so Christian tributes.

[00:24:27]Yeah, so you know this Episcopal Church. You know, I admire some of uh their teachings and things, so it's a >> Yeah. Right, let's let's move on to this one.

[00:24:38]>> Yeah, one more with for this time being, Jesus, but um this is the baptism of Christ and uh by St. John the Baptist in um the River Jordan.

[00:24:49]And um I like the sort of I wanted to capture the humility of of that he took this position, you know, to be baptized with holy water and uh Um yeah, this is a painting that's owned by some collectors that own quite a lot of my work, actually. Um in West Hollywood and uh they were overwhelmed.

[00:25:10]Now, and they didn't have a particularly clear faith, but they are really looking at it now, you know, so But again, the Holy Spirit emerged in this painting. And what you'll find if you look at my paintings that involve the Holy Spirit, every interpretation What I don't want to happen, I think my work is recognizable as a Watley.

[00:25:34]>> Yeah, I think he is, yeah.

[00:25:34]>> With the kind of stuff, but if you really look closely at every painting, there is something new that happens. And I would hate to just be churning out, so I have have a formula for a dove or whatever. So, there's always I try and pray and say try and say something new, you know, about >> Has a lot of your work gone to America?

[00:25:54]>> It has, actually. So, yeah, predominance of it and um So, um >> Well, you've got American Pope now, isn't he?

[00:26:00]>> Yeah, absolutely. Well, you'll see him a little bit later, yeah. The first American Pope, yeah.

[00:26:06]>> Yeah.

[00:26:06]>> Yeah.

[00:26:07]>> Okay.

[00:26:08]So >> And now really you can see it almost a bit especially to the Catholic Church, which it always says that we can pray through um the Holy Mother of God, Jesus.

[00:26:20]Um Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary. And so, this is one of my tributes. So, again, another 17th century tradition the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

[00:26:30]And um this is quite interesting cuz this was bought from people initially and it happened actually, which was really moving for me when I was staying in um United States um with family I know there.

[00:26:44]And um I just checked my emails and I got a print order from this lady called Mary.

[00:26:50]And uh she said, "I'm absolutely overwhelmed with my your work. I'd love to uh have a signed print of this.

[00:26:58]And then she shared it with her husband and then they asked if the original was available and they bought the original.

[00:27:03]Yeah, so it's one of two works they own.

[00:27:06]And it actually hangs in an Arizona healing therapy center. I still keep meaning to ask them what does it actually, you know, but in some sort of healing center anyway.

[00:27:19]And I think it hangs in the waiting room area.

[00:27:22]>> You'll have to pay it a visit, won't you?

[00:27:23]>> Yeah. Yeah, and so it Yeah, I have I do have a good dialogue with them and >> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:28]>> Um so >> That's really interesting.

[00:27:30]>> Yeah. So it's Again, this was looking at traditional images. So for example, whether I choose to do it personally or if I'm commissioned to do something, I will do so much research and I will read all about them. I'm not a great academic, but I want to absorb as much so I can and I'll look at as many different images over the years. So this had its starting point in a small prayer card.

[00:27:58]And I'll often um [clears throat] uh select deliberately not not bad art, but maybe kitsch art, so it doesn't interfere with my own art. So I just see it as a starting point. And and then it becomes my own somehow through my prayers and expressionism. So >> Okay.

[00:28:18]Okay.

[00:28:19]>> Now this one this devotion to Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary, is probably quite well known to people not necessarily just Catholic, but um Our Lady of Lourdes.

[00:28:30]>> Yeah.

[00:28:31]>> And uh again, this was started um through um miraculous visitations to Saint Bernadette in 1858 in Lourdes, France and I've actually never been actually. Have you >> No, I haven't. No.

[00:28:45]>> No. No, but it's obviously well known as a great healing center now.

[00:28:51]And again this was you inspired to do that Yeah, absolutely and what I do this is owned by a lady in Virginia in the USA the original oil painting.

[00:29:04]But I actually do have quite a lot of signed prints orders of this and I think their focus is basically of prayer you know for healing and when I'm painting when I was doing this I mean I think there's probably none of us that don't know someone or even within ourselves that need healing at some point. So I do actually pray that whatever I produce will provoke healing you know and and be a focus for that. I'm very very humbly I say that.

[00:29:37]>> No no no I I understand that too.

[00:29:39]>> So >> Okay.

[00:29:41]>> But So this this is again this was >> So um >> another devotion. I mean there are lots of devotions globally to the Blessed Virgin Mary through her different apparitions >> Outside of your own work is there anyone you admire who's done that work?

[00:30:00]>> Oh >> Outside of your own work who's done paintings of Mary are there any ones that you >> Uh >> come to mind?

[00:30:09]>> Not off the top of my head because like I said in terms of um when I'm looking I'll I'll collect a series of images but it's almost not important to me who's done I mean I like a lot of in the National Gallery there's some beautiful icons you know sort of very sort of 1300s Giotto and people like that you know so um but this is Our Lady of Guadalupe and she's very important particularly to Mexico but it's called Queen of the Americas and Mexico and she's also called the mother of Mexico.

[00:30:43]And um if I can remember the date, this was in 1531.

[00:30:48]I'm pretty sure that's right. I've got my prompt cards here, but I Usually I don't have to >> you're you're welcome to to use them.

[00:30:54]That's not a problem.

[00:30:55]>> I think it was 1531 and um she appeared to a young man, now Saint Juan Diego.

[00:31:04]And um basically asking that a church be built in her name.

[00:31:11]And in Mexico. And um he went to the bishop, the local bishop, and the bishop said "I don't believe you. I need a sign. I need a sign." So, she she appeared to him again and asked him to um collect some roses, which she pointed to them that were out of season.

[00:31:34]And to actually take them in his um shirt and say "These were asked to be shown to you because they're out of season, so it's a miracle that they were growing."

[00:31:46]And he let he let his um tunic open. And when he let them drop, there was this image of um the Blessed Virgin Mary on them, imprinted.

[00:31:57]And there is actually this ancient tilma that is said to be the original tilma, that's what they call it, um image of her. And that's what inspired my painting, so I mean it's completely different.

[00:32:09]>> you learn about that, then?

[00:32:11]>> Oh gosh, well this was two just before This was 2008 when I painted this, so and um a lovely couple in California, they reached out to me by email, saw my work, said "We've discovered your painting about" I'd never heard from them before.

[00:32:28]Um it so speaks to us. And they had a grandmother who was absolutely devoted.

[00:32:35]They bought the original and she they then took photographs off her with the painting.

[00:32:42]>> And they said it was an absolute blessing because she was suffering with cancer, but she lived long enough to see it, and she just said it is a wonderful modern painting. But >> That's great.

[00:32:52]>> And she was Mexican, you know, and um So, it was a lovely story, and they they treasure it. They they're amazing.

[00:33:01]And they looked after >> Yeah.

[00:33:03]>> All right. It's slightly moving.

[00:33:05]>> On.

[00:33:06]>> Yes, so this is um well, I thought we'd move from uh the Blessed Virgin Mary to her earthly uh spouse, and and the earthly father of Jesus, I meant. And um so, St. Joseph.

[00:33:18]>> Yeah.

[00:33:19]>> And uh I've created it two Well, he's it appears in three uh three or four of my paintings, actually. This is uh Holy Nativity painting that I've done Christmas. It's in Kentucky. This painting actually hangs in Chelsea, London, but it's some owned by a Catholic entrepreneur.

[00:33:38]And um it's St. Joseph the Worker.

[00:33:42]And the feast day is on May the 1st.

[00:33:46]And uh Yeah, so it's basically a depiction of him helping his you know, as a carpenter. And uh Again, I looked at historic images, but it very much um And I was actually looking at um I will also look at research things of that period, you know, so like the saws and different things to try and get a real sort of >> Feel for what you >> Yeah, it's one of my one of my personal favorites, [clears throat] actually, that painting, you know, so it's uh >> Right, this one.

[00:34:19]>> Oh, well, this is >> interesting one.

[00:34:20]>> Yeah.

[00:34:22]>> Do do you recognize it?

[00:34:26]Take us through 2011.

[00:34:28]>> Yeah, he Well, he's now saying it's John Pope John Paul II, yeah.

[00:34:33]And uh but I actually painted him as blessed at the time, blessed John Paul II.

[00:34:39]And uh I think he's he was a I I just feel he was a lovely man. I I love the the history that in 9 Well, I don't love the history that there was an attack assassination made attempt.

[00:34:53]>> he done a lot of traveling, didn't he?

[00:34:55]>> yeah.

[00:34:56]And um he's such a a great example of forgiveness because he reached out to his would-be assassin and asked to publicly forgive him. Yeah, absolutely amazing.

[00:35:10]>> You know, he was he was good. He he traveled a lot, didn't he?

[00:35:12]>> He did. And he he was Polish and [clears throat] um he's also responsible for introducing the world to Saint Faustina, who was a Polish nun in the 1930s who had miraculous visions of Christ asking to have um a portrait painted of him called Divine Mercy and to represent his Divine Mercy to the world, which would be inscribed with um Jesus, I trust in you.

[00:35:44]And he canonized had her made saint in the year 2000.

[00:35:50]Um but if it wasn't for him, we possibly might not know about Saint Faustina and the great legacy of Divine Mercy which comes onto the next painting, actually.

[00:36:02]>> All right.

[00:36:03]>> Yeah, that hangs in London. The original oil painting.

[00:36:07]This is another painting oil painting um that hangs in California, again.

[00:36:14]Um lovely story to this, actually, but um this is called Divine Mercy for humanity and the world.

[00:36:22]And it was painted in 2020, I think, if if I can see. Yeah, 2020.

[00:36:28]>> Yeah.

[00:36:29]>> Well, this was at the peak of the um COVID-19.

[00:36:33]>> Yeah.

[00:36:34]>> And so, like all of us I was feeling stressed with all of that and I thought, "Gosh, we really need help. The world needs help."

[00:36:42]And she Sister uh Saint Faustina, she was previously a nun, Sister Faustina was given directions by Jesus to have a painting made of him that would represent his holy water and blood flowing down in mercy to the world.

[00:37:01]And as I say, to be inscribed with Jesus, I trust in you, the words. And I've painted several interpretations and pastels and drawings. All of these can say be seen on my website.

[00:37:14]At stevenbwhyte.com and on the Christian tributes page.

[00:37:19]Um well, this is a large painting and this was really just totally from my heart, really.

[00:37:26]Because I knew his instructions to her and the format of the traditional um uh painting.

[00:37:35]Um which I have prayer cards of that about.

[00:37:39]>> Yeah.

[00:37:40]>> Um so, but it just developed again the Holy Spirit emerged.

[00:37:46]And then I thought, "How can I show the whole world?" And so, it became two two globes up there. You know, so um And you know, it's a lovely story that's worth sharing, I hope. With hope for everyone of healing.

[00:38:01]Um this lady um I think it was about a year or so or a few months after I painted it, found it on the internet and emailed me.

[00:38:11]No, she uh she knew she knew of the couple that um own my Our Lady of Guadalupe. Yeah, so she said she'd always admired that. So, she started looking at my work.

[00:38:22]And but she then um personally opened up and said that she and her husband were going through a great trial.

[00:38:33]They're a young couple and they wanted to have a child and um uh but had a real struggle and lots of doctors Well, I think she said it was about six doctors had all given very negative responses or unlikely she'd ever conceive.

[00:38:49]So, she said, um I have a great faith and your work brings me such hope.

[00:38:55]>> Yeah.

[00:38:55]>> And um so she asked for my guidance and I said, well, maybe a Divine Mercy. So, I sent some different and I gave different examples and she focused on this painting. She said, I want something that we can hang on the wall and I can just pray and trust.

[00:39:14]>> Yeah.

[00:39:15]And then >> bought this painting and I think it was about a year loved it.

[00:39:22]Year or two years after, she suddenly um wrote to me.

[00:39:27]It's It's quite emotional for me because it was really overwhelming and she said, I wanted you to know that I'm expecting our daughter.

[00:39:36]>> Wow.

[00:39:37]>> And she said this is after they'd all dismissed you know and she said, I just kept focusing on your painting and saying, which I always try and tell everyone even those that don't believe, I say, just try. Uh um Jesus, I trust in you.

[00:39:57]>> Yeah.

[00:39:57]>> Um I mean, I've had therapy in my life and in that counseling.

[00:40:02]And sadly, one of my last counselors um had cancer and he um it ended up where it became a mutual really. Yeah, she said to me, I you shouldn't be paying for your counseling. Yeah, it did, yeah.

[00:40:17]And I was really counseling him.

[00:40:20]But he didn't have a clear faith at all.

[00:40:22]He he regularly said to me, and in the end I used to leave him with a hug and I said, "Just try for me, will you?" And he said, "I'm going to try.

[00:40:29]Just saying Jesus, I trust." Well, but you know, so Anyway, so yeah, she she >> great story.

[00:40:36]>> Yeah, well, she was she was just so overwhelmed. Um >> Yeah.

[00:40:40]And now she's got a child.

[00:40:41]>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And after all these doctors had just given her There is no way you can conceive, you know.

[00:40:48]>> Like a miracle.

[00:40:50]>> Yeah. Well, I think there's the old um It was a miracle. Yeah, we we really believe it was a miracle. And I'm sure you've heard it.

[00:40:59]The old saying, "Nothing is impossible with God." And you have to And I think in these dark times of the world, if you can sort of step outside what's we're having pumped at us and try and see that and look to help another dimension. Because if you just have a constant feed of the news, you'd think, "Oh God, there's no hope."

[00:41:23]>> And now religion's becoming more and more important.

[00:41:26]>> Yeah, I think And even more than the word really Just faith of spiritual, yeah, of a spiritual content, you know.

[00:41:34]It's just a You know.

[00:41:36]>> Okay. Let me have a go at this one.

[00:41:38]>> Right. Well, it just I mean, there are so many saints uh I could introduce. Um So, I could only bring a selection. I know I brought quite a lot.

[00:41:47]But there's a lot more to see on my um Christian tributes page, but um this again I thought was important to share cuz this is actually perhaps lesser known saint called Saint Lucy.

[00:42:00]And she's patron saint of the blind and those with eye problems.

[00:42:05]And like most um saints' stories, especially martyrs, you know, that were murdered, they're pretty gross, yeah, you know? And hers is no less so. I think she was uh the 3rd century. She was very young as well, but um basically in whatever torture and her death, her eyes were removed, which is pretty awful. So, the only traditional images tend to be that she's depicted with um carrying a tray with eyes on it, yeah.

[00:42:36]Now, certainly I never want anything that's actually going to be gruesome. I want it to be about light and love, you know, my work.

[00:42:45]So, um I used that as a starting point, but um her name actually Lucy means light in Latin. Luce, I think it is. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. I never learned Latin.

[00:42:58]>> Yeah.

[00:42:58]>> So, um but anyway, um >> So, where did Where did you hear about this?

[00:43:03]>> Well, I was just going to say. It's two lines.

[00:43:06]Um in June. Um Yeah, I was just going to say we're always learning, and I love to learn about new saints. And so, this was again through someone, I think it was via Facebook, who reached out to me, who'd been following my work, and he said, um I have a friend. She can't possibly afford, you know, to commission anything, but I just want to see if you would personally be inspired to paint Saint Lucy. Have you heard about her? I didn't know about her.

[00:43:37]And he said, she has an eye disease.

[00:43:41]And [clears throat] I just feel if she could see a work by you, it just might give her hope. Who knows? It might help in some way.

[00:43:48]So, that was a huge inspiration to me, and um so, um uh so, yeah, this >> So, that's the story behind it.

[00:43:58]>> So, so, this painting came about, and um I sent her then a print, signed print of it.

[00:44:04]>> Okay.

[00:44:04]>> And um she focused on it, and she wrote to me personally. She said, "I don't know how to tell you this, but my eye condition has got so much better since I had Well, you know, so that was really overwhelming as well, you know, it's >> Scary.

[00:44:21]>> But, there are I'm just discovering cuz I still actually have the original work of art that one. Because it's something that I always say to people um never take it for granted those of us that can see. Cuz sometimes people will say "Oh, isn't that beautiful?"

[00:44:37]Um wasn't it wonderful to see? I said, "Yeah, if we're blessed to see." You know, I never forget that. Cuz it breaks my heart when I'm walking along and I see someone with a white stick or whatever. And I literally [clears throat] walk past them and I pray that they'll be healed.

[00:44:52]But, it's just really is one of the such a trial for someone to go through.

[00:44:57]>> Absolutely, yeah.

[00:44:58]>> Those people But, we'll >> quickly go through these then.

[00:45:02]>> Yeah, this is um >> So, this is >> Well, this is quite a well-known saint, um Saint Anthony, saint of miracles.

[00:45:08]He's also saint of lost things. So, when you've lost something, you can ask to um Saint Anthony, please help me find.

[00:45:15]I've shared this with a lot of people, including agnostics that say, "It's incredible. It works." [laughter] So, um >> And this is this is where it is, is it?

[00:45:25]>> Yeah, this was actually Yeah, this was actually Yeah, this was actually bought by um they reached out to me from Australia. This is the Saint Anthony Padua Catholic um in Sydney. And um they were so overwhelmed with it. They said, "We've been looking for a painting of Saint Anthony.

[00:45:44]But, they're all such I think they're such dull traditional images. And we wanted something new. And your work our faith our Sacred Heart Community loves your work. So, they they wanted to buy it. And then they said, "We'd like to send you a photograph of it. We treasure it so much. It was taken into mass to be blessed.

[00:46:04]>> Well, no, it's nice for you people to see that as well.

[00:46:06]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Into into the Catholic college mass.

[00:46:11]Yeah, that was wonderful to see cuz I don't always get to see my work.

[00:46:14]>> That's what I'm saying. It's very interesting for you to actually see your work actually, you know, when it's being presented. It's a nice display.

[00:46:27]>> Like this one's.

[00:46:28]>> This is St. Michael. St. Michael there, Archangel. Again, the Holy Spirit has got I've painted actually three tributes to St. Michael. One that hangs in Alabama in USA. Another one hangs in Chelsea, London. This one I still have.

[00:46:45]It's the most recent. Um very big painting actually. Again, >> Yeah.

[00:46:49]>> 30 by 24, but he's a great protector, you know, and against evil and um so yeah, I feel great devotion. I mean, I pray pray to him every day. I pray the rosary every day, which includes um uh a prayer to St. Michael, you know, so >> That's That's a That's a really interesting painting.

[00:47:09]>> Oh, thank you.

[00:47:09]>> And it's still available?

[00:47:10]>> It is, yes. Yes.

[00:47:13]>> All right.

[00:47:14]>> Now, this is it St. Patrick.

[00:47:17]>> Yes, you can tell by that.

[00:47:18]>> Yeah, I I thought you by your expression you must know cuz it's being you Were you actually born in Ireland?

[00:47:24]>> No, but my Both my parents are from >> yeah. Yeah, so Yeah, so I Yeah, I always had an affection for St. Patrick and obviously patron saint of Ireland. He's also patron saint of Diocese of New York.

[00:47:39]And this was acquired by the same priest, Father John D. Han, who bought the Glory of Christ. So he This is one of several works he owns actually. I'm actually going to um dinner with him later this month.

[00:47:53]>> And where is this Whereabouts is this?

[00:47:55]>> In Camden, London.

[00:47:56]>> yeah?

[00:47:56]>> Yeah, so it must be a nice community.

[00:47:58]>> Yeah, yeah, well he's he's retired now, but he's um uh but he he loved this. And what was particularly moving for me, again, I looked at traditional images, but when I learned about the significance of the shamrock um because it was in the 5th century that um St. Patrick went to teach the Irish about faith really, to share faith.

[00:48:22]And um he apparently used the shamrock to represent God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So, and when I painted this paint um burned um I was exhausted when I came to painting the shamrock.

[00:48:39]And when I looked at it again, I felt no, that was too easy how it came, and I can feel my tiredness. So, the next day I just began again, prayed really hard, and then something really spiritual happened. That's probably the most spiritual moment, and it became much bigger and more significant, and uh I really should show details of that on my >> Yeah, well maybe that's something you will show. That's a really, really interesting piece.

[00:49:10]>> Yeah, but again, people like ordering signed prints of that, so it's No, it's not available, so >> popular.

[00:49:16]>> Yeah, and another and I felt this is important to bring another healing painting.

[00:49:21]Um actually, I still have, but this is St. Peregrine.

[00:49:25]And he's the patron saint of um incurable diseases.

[00:49:30]>> Okay, I don't know this one.

[00:49:31]>> And um and cancer. He's most most name uh known for cancer. Also AIDS. So, um and it's it's someone actually wrote to me and revealed that they had um well, AIDS and cancer. So, I've just sent off a card to this person. This is a person who owns several of my paintings.

[00:49:52]I said he'd never heard of Saint Peregrine. Um So, but it was significant >> origins from?

[00:49:59]>> Uh 14th century, basically. And there's a miracle um that happened that he had cancer in his leg.

[00:50:10]Um was about to um the night before he was due to have it um uh what do you call it? Uh taken out it cut off No, his leg, actually. I can't think of the word.

[00:50:23]>> Amputated.

[00:50:23]>> Yeah, that's it. Amputated. It's not a nice word.

[00:50:27]So, um uh and you can see there's a little cross on his leg there.

[00:50:31]>> Okay.

[00:50:32]>> Anyway, he prayed he touched his leg with a crucifix and prayed to Jesus to take the cancer away. And the next morning it was revealed that the cancer had gone.

[00:50:41]>> Right.

[00:50:42]>> So, this is, you know, obviously of great hope. I felt that I wanted to share it in this film.

[00:50:48]Um for people just to think about Saint Peregrine when cuz there's so many. I mean, they they say now one in two of us will get cancer, you know, so But >> I guess it's also good that you're making people aware of these saints cuz it gives people a bit hope.

[00:51:02]>> As a focus, as a focus. And there's a lot more hope now with cancer as well.

[00:51:07]Necessarily, it's not necessarily incurable or so >> All right. All right.

[00:51:13]>> Um this is one of my most recent um >> 25 >> paintings. Yeah, of um someone I hadn't heard of and basically um it was a school The Regis School of the Sacred Heart in Houston, Texas had discovered my work through their sister school call it their sister school. This is a boys school. Um um the Duchesne uh school of the sacred Was it the Academy of the Sacred Heart in Houston as well.

[00:51:43]And they commissioned me the year before to paint their patron, Saint Rose Philippine Duchesne. I'm sure I'm saying that the surname wrongly, but um And um this is their patron. I didn't know him at all. Saint John Francis Regis. And he was a priest in 17th century in France and a missionary.

[00:52:05]>> Okay, let me just throw this one up again because just so that people can see it's actually >> Yeah, well this was actually this was very moving in January on his feast day.

[00:52:16]Um they sent me photographs of a special mass where the painting was being blessed. They were so overwhelmed with it were their exact words were, "It's phenomenal. We can't get over And just to look back at the painting again, sorry Bernard, just to Um what I focused on, obviously I did all my research and looked at traditional images, was one of the miracles that he performed. And it was basically in a time of famine and the granaries were bare and he prayed so hard and it suddenly was overwhelmed with grain, you know, wheat.

[00:52:50]So So this becomes part of the painting, you know, so Um but it was a very very moving painting for me to know.

[00:52:58]>> and that for them to be showing you and displaying it >> Oh, it was wonderful.

[00:53:01]>> shows how important it is.

[00:53:02]>> Yeah, it it was wonderful, yeah. And they just they've been looking for an artist that could really I mean, I think that's another interpretation of him, but he's generally shown without a hat and >> That's very good, so Okay.

[00:53:18]>> We're approaching the end.

[00:53:21]>> This is um another recent painting actually, oil painting of a Saint Jude and he's saint of um impossible causes or desperate causes actually. You shouldn't ever say anything so >> Yeah, impossible, yeah.

[00:53:33]>> But um yeah, of desperate causes when you think, you know, and I like to think of the saints in a way as assistants to Christ and they can intercede before you, but um um the story is that he actually he was one of the apostles and Jude and Jesus asked him to imprint his face take it on his medallion that he was wearing and take it to this king who was sick who'd asked to be healed.

[00:54:03]And he just showed him this medallion and he was healed by you know, so um and it felt impossible obviously at the >> time.

[00:54:10]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:11]>> So >> That's an interesting >> Jude, yes.

[00:54:14]>> Okay.

[00:54:15]>> And this is this is maybe a future saint, a future saint, but a living a living good man of peace. Certainly that's what I'm feeling, you know, and certainly a strong man of peace who's really been speaking out.

[00:54:30]Um probably the 14th and the first American pope. And that really I do have a America's very close to my heart and so I was really really happy about that when he became pope and I think he's a a good man to be at the top of the Catholic. He's unifying and um >> Did you know of him before he got >> No, no, I didn't, but um certainly I've read a lot about him, you know, when I did this painting which was inspired by >> this painting now?

[00:54:59]>> I still have it at home. Yeah.

[00:55:01]>> Yeah. Is it a large painting then?

[00:55:02]>> That's um 30 by 24s or 76 by 24.

[00:55:07]>> Okay, so that's >> um 61.

[00:55:10]>> Centimeters. That's available.

[00:55:11]>> Yes, it is. Yeah, I mean getting the Holy Spirit um came in that's why I thought we'd sort of near the end I'd bring him in cuz I just got a feeling maybe one day he will be seen actually >> Very important times at the moment.

[00:55:24]>> And I feel that these good people I'm sure um do focus in prayer on the Holy Spirit and um so I didn't play I don't always plan this. It just evolves in my painting, you know. So, um >> He's there at the right time, let's hope.

[00:55:40]>> Yes, I I do think and I think that he's giving hope to the world, really, you know.

[00:55:46]>> Okay, we're getting close now, so >> Yes, yes. So, this is This is actually St. Francis of Assisi.

[00:55:52]>> Was this done in >> This was 2011. Yeah, it was owned by a lady in Virginia, USA, and who owns several of my paintings.

[00:56:03]And, um >> Charcoal?

[00:56:05]>> Yeah, this is charcoal, yeah. And again, I looked at traditional prayer cards. I love birds, and he's, you know, patron saint of the environment and nature, and um and I just the year before been to America for the first time. So, um the inspiration of the birds were actually studies I made in a a bird reserve in America.

[00:56:30]And I wanted them to be American because once someone becomes saint, even though his origins were Italy, they're a saint for everyone, as far as I'm concerned, all the world, so So, yeah, that's again, that's that's quite a personal favorite of mine, you know, it's uh >> So.

[00:56:48]>> And then to complete >> to finish off on >> Yeah, yeah, to complete this sort of preview, if if you like, cuz there's such like I said, I know there's a lot more, yeah. a galaxy of heavenly stars, really, but um this is one of the newest saints, and at such a young saint, and I felt I wanted to end on a a light and joyful note. I mean, we all need joy, we all need hope, we all need light.

[00:57:13]And even though I mentioned that I suffer with depression, a big part of my personality is humor. And I love to smile, and um that seems to help people when I smile at them, so um but this is Saint Carlo Acutis, who was um an Italian teenager when he died sadly. He was born in 1991 and died in 2006 of cancer.

[00:57:40]And he had the deepest faith. And what was I think is so profound and so important, especially for the younger generation, is to see that someone so young could have such a deep love of Jesus and God.

[00:57:56]And I actually depicted him using his computer, his lap top. In order to paint that, I actually researched the laptops that were around in 2006 when he >> Yeah, it was a modern It's a modern time.

[00:58:10]>> Yeah, well, exactly, exactly. And it was as I say, he's what they say, one of the first sort of millennium saints. And um he was a living saint, really, you know, as a lot of the saints were. And um but he his main thing was that he wanted to evangelize, and he used the internet.

[00:58:30]He's actually patron saint of the internet to spread the word. And I think if Jesus was living on Earth, he would be using the internet, obviously, cuz it's a window and >> That's how you going to get to everybody, isn't it?

[00:58:42]>> Yeah, so uh it and his big thing was smiling. So, I think it's a a nice thing to sort of close on, you know, is It's very good.

[00:58:53]>> Where do you see Where do What are you working on at the moment? Are you working on anything?

[00:58:56]>> Well, I'm about Yeah, I'm about to which I won't reveal yet, but it's a an iconic architectural piece. So, that's that's my next piece. So, I love architecture, and maybe we can do a film on that.

[00:59:07]>> yeah. Yeah, no, that would be great.

[00:59:10]>> uh I find the the spirit of architecture, and it sort of becomes almost alive for me when I'm working, so.

[00:59:17]>> Well, that's good, then. That's really interesting. So, we've um we've covered quite a lot of your work now.

[00:59:21]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:59:23]Yeah, well, there is so much, but at the basis of it all is um my faith.

[00:59:28]>> Everyone's trying to think where you keep it all.

[00:59:30]>> Well, I have those that I because I'm prolific, it's all stored with me, but um you know, so uh >> So, it's it's good. But you're feeling good at the moment?

[00:59:40]>> Yes, yes, yes. I'm always yeah, what my faith does, whatever's happening in the world or in my life is give hope.

[00:59:47]So, I hope I've given some light.

[00:59:50]>> Well, yeah, and people need to know you do a lot. You're a carer, you look after people as well. So, you >> Yeah, I I do, yeah, I do. I >> your >> I think one of my biggest things is um which can be detrimental to me is empathy. I can't help that. I just feel for people. So, I'm very compassionate, but I wouldn't have it any other way cuz I can't ignore suffering, so.

[01:00:11]>> Okay, what about some time for yourself?

[01:00:12]You got any plans, any holidays? You're not going to America?

[01:00:15]>> Not this year, no, no, no. I'm not going to America. Yeah, maybe hopefully I'll get a break for a bit.

[01:00:20]>> What about a show? Are you doing any exhibitions that people could potentially come along and see?

[01:00:24]>> That's what I'm looking into. I really do need It would be great to have an exhibition before long.

[01:00:30]>> that you do a >> I think it'd be quite timely, so.

[01:00:33]>> Well, maybe we can make some of you get one organized and come and you tell us all about it and then we can let everyone know where it is and go and see your work.

[01:00:39]>> yeah. And in the meantime, and obviously I have a permanent exhibit at the Tower of London, just outside a walkway there, and my website is open all hours.

[01:00:48]>> Yeah, and I'm sure there'll be lots of people There'll be lots of other things on the um on the podcast showing about where you work as well and things like that.

[01:00:54]>> telling The thing about a visit to your podcast thing is you've got so many people on and it's it's really worth subscribing. It's free.

[01:01:01]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, the more more people can subscribe the better.

[01:01:05]>> But that's lovely.

[01:01:06]>> Yeah.

[01:01:07]Thanks so much for coming in, Steven.

[01:01:09]Lovely to see you again.

[01:01:10]>> you so much for your interest and showing all your work.

[01:01:12]>> Thank you. Thank you, Bernard. Thank you, Steven. All right.

[01:01:16]>> [music] >> Mhm.