Golders Green Attack: Ban Pro-Palestinian Marches? | Jeremy Vine

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]Before the break, we asked what is unique about a platypus's fur. It glows. It has scales underneath or it's covered in tiny spikes. It actually glows of something called boflloresence. There we go. Welcome back. We're live on five with Marina and Albi. We're joined by the journalist and anti-semitism campaigner Jonathan Sachadotti and we're asking this now. Should pro Palestine marches be banned after the latest terror attack? We'd love your calls. The Met is reviewing whether the rallies should be allowed to go ahead. The next one is set to take place in two weeks.

[00:00:41]The terrorism threat level in the UK has just been raised to severe, meaning an attack is highly likely in the next 6 months. Ministers say the public should be alert but not alarmed. Karma is facing calls to ban pro Palestine marches, but the stop the war coalition, which organizes many of them, says attempts to link recent attacks with marches, is false. So, Jonathan, do you think they should be banned?

[00:01:07]>> I think that there's a great deal to be said for freedom of speech, and it's one of the things that we like to protect in this country. And yet, I think many of these marches have been deliberately intended to intimidate people. They've been held in as wholesome a way as possible to take up as much space to be as noisy as possible and to make as many people as possible afraid to be there.

[00:01:26]And I think as a result of that certainly these marches and the form they take along with all the support for terrorism that's been on display in them whether it's been terrorist flags whether it's been charing for interifard which of course harks back to the Palestinian Arab campaigns of terrorism in Israel that killed hundreds and hundreds of people all of those things are deeply intimidating. So freedom of speech doesn't protect your right to intimidate and bully other Britons. And I think because these marches have indeed the leaders who were found guilty recently in that court case were found guilty of having broken the police conditions that asked them not to take that march near a synagogue on a Sabbath on Shabbat morning where people were praying and they broke it and that's why they were found guilty. So I think all of those things just show that these marches aren't about freedom of speech.

[00:02:12]They're about intimidation. Nobody has a right to intimidate British Jews.

[00:02:15]Marina, >> sorry that there's a a sweeping generalization. There will always be bad eggs and the police abs absolutely have to weed that out and deal with it. But these marches, I actually think what you're doing there by saying these these are like Sabra and other people calling them hate marches is it's actually doing the opposite of what we're trying to do here. If we're serious about tackling anti-semitism, we need to stop being lazy and reckless with what it means. It doesn't mean the thousands of people taking to the streets because they are desparing at the actions of the Israeli government. Now, I have seen you in a clip on GB News and you were talking about how you think the rise in anti-semitism is due to like the BBC and Sky News slurring what Israel is doing.

[00:02:57]Do you not think that there is a spike in anti-semitism? Not that this is right, but there is a spike in anti-semitism directly as a result of the Israeli government's actions since October 7th. And by the way, that's not my opinion. That is data. Do you think there's ever going to be any responsibility taken as two question for the environment or radicalization that's happening because of what we've seen over the last few years?

[00:03:22]>> Do you think that?

[00:03:23]>> I do think that.

[00:03:24]>> Okay. I don't >> Okay. Can you explain why? Why? I don't think >> Why do you think the BBC and Sky News is slur is is creating anti-semitism?

[00:03:33]Hang on, let's I'm doing the questions and we're not we're not going down that route. Why?

[00:03:37]>> Well, because that's a sidebar to the main issue, which is the issue is whether >> I'm more than happy. I'm sure you are, but it's we're on the main connection Marina's making here is the actions of the state of Israel being linked to lives in this country of Jewish people who are trying to go about their daily lives.

[00:03:57]>> Yeah. But I think so Marina's got a point though because the lives of Jewish people in this country are affected by warped and twisted coverage of what's going on in Israel. So it's very hard to do in a short form on a program like this, but to try to do so. Okay. Um, Israel's engaged at the moment and over the last couple of years, but for pretty much all of its existence in a defensive war against jihadist Islam, which has invaded it from multiple directions. And perhaps the most uh distinct version of that that we saw in recent times that many viewers who haven't paid much attention to this over the last I don't know 78 years may have noticed it on October the 7th 2023 when Palestinians invaded Israel, killed, raped, murdered, kidnapped uh people uh in in horrific way targeting civilians. Uh and so Israel engaged in a war um against both the people that did that but also the Islamic jihadist terrorists of Hezbollah who joined in in the north from Lebanon who are sponsored and funded and trained by the Islamic Republic of Iran. And so all of those things but wait a minute.

[00:04:54]Yes. So so when when there is coverage when there is coverage of that in this country and around the world which utterly demonizes and misrepresents Israel's actions. Wars are wait I'm answering your question. I'm answering I told you it's complex. It doesn't work in 20 second chunks. I will try to make it as brief as possible. But when the coverage of that is very warped, twisted, and one-sided, as I believe it is, as somebody that specializes in this area, covers it for the spectator, covers it across many different outlets, spends a lot of time in Israel, been into Gaza, been in Israel, been there under the ballistic missile fire of Iran during the 12-day war, in the shelters, all of this. When that is twisted and one-sided, it does mean that people in the streets in Britain often misunderstand what is going on. Okay?

[00:05:36]And then use that misunderstanding and demonization of Israel, many of them, as a veil and and a reason to attack Jewish people. You don't need to take these marches past the synagogue on a Shabbat morning when people are trying to pray.

[00:05:49]>> It's not to attack Jewish people. This is it. For me, the person that is actually making such a case for this rise in anti-semitism is Ben Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government because they are trying to make it impossible to distinguish between criticism of Israel and the Jewish identity.

[00:06:06]Don't you like?

[00:06:07]>> Uh well, do you want me to start? So, he's currently invading Lebanon and just flattening Lebanon. That's after his that's after his gender.

[00:06:15]>> But the action in Lebanon is because Lebanon had been launching missiles on the north of Israel for decades and months. That's what a war is.

[00:06:21]>> We we we're reading about day after day we are really reading about children being snipered and targeted. We are reading about aid workers being targeted, buried in the rubble.

[00:06:31]>> They're not they're not being targeted.

[00:06:33]You're read that's exactly the point.

[00:06:34]You're reading a very coverage of what's going on.

[00:06:38]>> I'm extremely sympathetic to your point of view. But I don't know how you can sit here and say anyone looking at the situation in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank for having concerns about that situation, how Israel has conducted itself since before October the 7th is somehow getting some warped version of reality of what is going on in that part of the world. I think all sides look pretty bad. I think it's pretty ridiculous for people on the pro-Israel side to say Israel is doing nothing wrong, just as I think it's pretty ridiculous for people on the pro Palestine side to say Palestine and the the Gins are doing nothing wrong. I think it looks pretty grubby on all sides actually. And I don't think it helps the pro-Israel argument to say Netanyahu and that administration is doing nothing wrong in that.

[00:07:24]>> You got a lot of words in my mouth. I didn't say Israel is doing nothing wrong. I didn't say Benjamin Netanyahu doesn't do anything wrong.

[00:07:29]>> So what do you think they're doing wrong then? just what do you think they're doing wrong?

[00:07:32]>> I thought we were here to discuss the rise in anti-semitic attacks after Jewish stabbings and gold screen, but I'm very happy to discuss the reason behind rising anti-semitism and so much of it is driven by GOP.

[00:07:43]>> I get it. I get it. I get it. It's the usual format on a lot of British mainstream TV, two against one. And then I try to answer the questions you ask what you asked me a question and I'm trying to answer it. Okay? So, let me do so.

[00:07:57]>> What do I think they're doing wrong in Israel? Is that what you're ask Netanyahu and Israel are doing wrong with the Palestinians both in the West Bank and in Gaza if anything at all?

[00:08:06]>> Okay. So, um, what policies are Benjamin Netanyahu wrong with the Palestinians?

[00:08:13]>> Again, we're going into action hang them. Are you okay with that? Are you pro that?

[00:08:17]>> Am I pro the death penalty hanging Palestinians?

[00:08:20]>> Well, I wrote a column on it which can outline my my analysis of this which would be perhaps easier for you to understand than what we've got time for.

[00:08:27]But I'm not particularly No, no, I'm not in favor of death penalty anywhere in the world actually. Um, but I do understand how in a society like Israel where uh Palestinian terrorists regularly kidnap people in order to exchange them for uh terrorists who are imprisoned having been convicted of terror attacks in Israel. And the families whose family members have been killed, many of them are the originators of the push for that law, which by the way is most likely not to be not to be put in place because of the Supreme Court in Israel. But the point about that but the point about you see again I don't understand what any of this has got to do with Jews being stabbed in gold as green with synagogues being burnt down with Jewish ambulances being firebombed and then you told me that the British media as epitomized by you no I got here and the first thing you did the first thing you did was go on a charade about something I'd done on another channel talking about the attacks on Jews. You're talking to somebody that grew up in this country uh not feeling any different from anybody else. I'm the son of a Holocaust survivor who is hidden during the war and saved from the Nazis from being annihilated. Jewish people in this country because of the rise in anti-semitism and yes because of many of the things they've seen in these marches and because of many of the signs and the chants like an Islamic chant harking back to a war that kills Jews and jihad's flags and jihads. Oh, there are Jewish blocks on those marches. agree say not in my name there are protesters there is anti-semitism you're right you're right all of our experience as a community you're all of our experience as a community completely invalid because Marina knows from Jews who are on the march you know Marina I mean honestly this is the most unsympathetic the most unsympathetic attitude I think I've had the misfortune to sit next to on a British television show when a society is is plagued by people who are literally targeting Jewish people for stabbing for arson for killing ing in this country and you are telling me that it that I am unreasonable because of something you saw me say about Israel on GB news. I mean the mirror you have pointed at the marches and saying they are they are hate marches. I have to tackle that. I have to tackle that.

[00:10:35]>> They had to cover in a blue tarp allin the Holocaust memorial in Hyde Park because one of those marches was going to go near it. And you're telling me that they weren't worried that there might be some sort of anti-semitic element in it? I know Jewish people in this country who have not been able to go to synagogue, not been able to go into you for a >> sec as much as you like just because we have to take a break.

[00:10:55]>> Go for it. Go for the break.

[00:10:56]>> Um and then we'll come back. After the break, we're taking your calls on whether propaline marches should be banned. 0207862.

[00:11:03]We'll see you shortly.

[00:11:07]Before the break, we asked an Indian billionaire's son has made headlines after trying to do what? reverse aging, build his own artificial island, or rescue Pablo Escobar's hippos. And the answer is the hippos.

[00:11:25]80 of them. And they're a blight and they were imported cuz cuz Escobar wanted a kind of a zoom really as well as making a billion dollars a day. All right, we're in the middle of talking about well we started talking about events terrible events in gold is green and we then went on to causes and we then got it the classic connection where we do the state of Israel's behavior since October the 7th and that's where you two fell out slightly cuz now you think this goes back to Israel's behavior Marina correct >> I I think there is a link and we have seen it in the data that anti-semitism has spiked which is terrible, should not happen, needs to be tackled because there is a lazy conflation by some people who are ignorant and stupid and a deliberate conflation by people like Netanyahu who want to conflate the actions of the Jewish government, sorry, the Israeli government with the Jewish identity. That is wrong and that is dangerous for the Jewish community. And I feel desperately for the Jewish diaspora who now feel increasingly isolated by the very country, the very state that was actually created to represent them and keep them safe.

[00:12:35]>> So, so from from your point of view, Israel needs to take some responsibility for this scourge.

[00:12:41]>> Sadly, yes.

[00:12:41]>> Okay. Jonathan, did which part of that do you disagree with? Because now she said it like that, I'm thinking you're probably on the same page with some of it.

[00:12:50]>> Um, I switched off a bit. Sorry. Um, I don't uh I don't agree with most of it.

[00:12:54]I mean, if we're here to discuss the intricacies of Israeli politics and it's, you know, knock on with the diaspora, that's fine. I don't know if you prefer, >> do you not see? Do you not see it? So, >> I don't know if she'd prefer Nafali Bennett or Y lapid or whether it's Benjamin Netanyahu's policies with the judicial reform in Israel or whether it's the Hari draft. I don't know which parts of Israeli politics she's she I don't know where she is in politics. If you weren't listening, let me just let me just go back over some of the things that she's talked about, but mainly because I can see Marina a lot, her focus is on the treatment of people in Gaza during the war. Okay. Okay. So, >> but I don't know any other Israeli politician who wouldn't after the Palestinians invaded Israel on October the 7th, after they killed children in front of their parents and parents in front of their children. After they raped people alive and dead, after they severed women's breasts whilst raping them. Uh, after they kidnapped people from babies to Holocaust survivors to grandparents and held them hostage. I mean, I met one of the hostages a few weeks ago here in London, Noah Armani, student at a dance party, kidnapped, held in Gaza for hundreds of days. I don't know any other politician in that country who wouldn't have engaged in the war um with the Palestinians. And given that, you know, it's so boring to have to rehearse all of the arguments over how you fight a war against an Islamic jihadist group that deliberately holds hostages and targets.

[00:14:20]you disagree with? Of course.

[00:14:23]Absolutely. And everyone was defending Israel and Israel's right to defend itself. Of course. And what you described is harrowing.

[00:14:31]>> But does that then mean you go and commit a genocide that you you starve?

[00:14:36]There is Oh, come on. Come on, man. We have got babies dying. There is an arrest warrant out for Netanyahu because of of withholding aid. And Karim Khan, the prosecutor who rushed through his own process, abandoned it to do that, has just been Karim Khan, the prosecutor of the ICJ, who's just been shown to have been uh backed by Katar to do that and who had sexual allegations against him in the ICJ. So it is it is but this is what happens when you try to discuss anti-semitism in this country. This is what happens.

[00:15:07]>> So Jonathan, no one's starving. No one's no kids are being sniped.

[00:15:11]>> What are you talking about?

[00:15:13]>> Let's pause. What has that got to do? No one's starving. No one's being snipers.

[00:15:17]I don't understand what this No, you invited a Jew in to talk about anti-semitism on Channel 5. Okay. And then you want to discuss its connections with Israel and literally all you've done is put somebody next to me who doesn't know very much about Israeli politics. Have you been to Israel? Have you been to Gaza? Have you been there?

[00:15:35]Have you seen the war? I don't need to know what do you know about war? What do you know about the history of the Israel Arab conflict? What do you know about Islamic jihadism? What do you know about the Quran? What do you know about Islam?

[00:15:45]What do you know about Judaism?

[00:15:47]>> Started long before.

[00:15:49]>> Yes, it did. Oh, you you've come in before because you're also sitting here.

[00:15:52]So, >> I'm more than happy to discuss these things, but to discuss them with somebody that doesn't know anything about them and then barrels you on a discussion about anti-semitism. This is not this is exactly why Jonathan Marina, wait a second. I called in >> just to just to bring it back. So I think the point initially which we we've gone around is that after October the 7th we've seen a massive spike in anti-semitism and the data bears that out. Now I do not think it is acceptable for people who are on the pro Palestine side of the argument who are going on these marches which you say are hate marches. I don't think it is acceptable for them to say things like globalize the interifard. I don't think it's acceptable for them to be singing from the river to the sea. I don't think it's acceptable for for people to conflate the actions of the Israeli state Netanyahu, which I profoundly disagree with, by the way. That might be a point of disagreement, but I profoundly disagree with them. I don't think it is right to conflate those actions with civilians in Israel or the Jewish diaspora here. And I am so angry that we do have an Islamist and jihadist problem in this country. And they are targeting British Jews. And we've seen a high frequency of attack.

[00:17:04]>> Let me just get a call. Okay. Okay. Um, it's that connection that is so problematic. Daniel in Middlesbrough, what do you think?

[00:17:12]>> Hello. Um, I just want to say I like your show. Sorry. Uh, before I start, um, it's one of the only few shows out there that actually gives all political sides a voice. And I mean, in this day and age, that's very rare.

[00:17:26]>> I think it's important.

[00:17:28]Um, so I mean at this point I think we're at the point where unfortunately no one's surprised about this anymore. I mean when you um when you've got a government that just lets these marches happen for years now and sorry that's my son. Sorry mate.

[00:17:49]>> Wait you're hang on. You're against these Palestine pro Palestine marches.

[00:17:54]Oh, absolutely.

[00:17:56]>> The reason Jonathan said, >> I mean, I think when I I don't I mean, people are getting what they asked for on the this people on these marches have been calling for this, haven't they, with the globalizing antifa and all that nonsense.

[00:18:12]>> Okay. Well, that's that's what Jonathan was saying. Listen, I'll let you be with your son, Daniel. Thank you so much for your call. Stay with us, Jonathan. Uh moment, a second of light relief there.

[00:18:20]We'll take more calls after the break on this important subject. We'll also be talking about the king's visit to the states. Was it worth it in the end?

[00:18:26]Plenty of people said he shouldn't have gone, but maybe it'll bolster the special relationship. 0207862.

[00:18:32]And we'll see you in just a moment.

[00:18:37]Before the break, we asked which US president tried to set his daughter up with the then Prince Charles, Linda Johnson, Richard Nixon, or Gerald Ford?

[00:18:44]It was Nixon.

[00:18:52]Interesting. Welcome back to the show with Jonathan Marina and Albby. Let's take some calls now because we got caught up in our discussion there.

[00:18:59]Should the pro Palestine marches be banned in order to reduce anti-semitism?

[00:19:04]0207862 Howard in Swansea, do you think so?

[00:19:09]>> No, I I don't think they should be banned because um of the actions of the Israeli government. I mean, they they've been stealing Palestinian land since 1948, haven't they? And I've seen footage of settlers coming from illegal settlements and destroying Palestinian olive trees, so they can't make a living there. But but there's but the issue here is surely that if if these marches are feeding anti-semitism that then ends up with British Jews being at risk then they're a danger to have them.

[00:19:53]>> Where are you getting arches of feeding anti-semitism? I said if Howard.

[00:19:59]>> Well, well, I you've had Angela Epstein on this program many times.

[00:20:06]>> And I I've never heard her saying anything >> um about the the IDF and the way they behave and with regard to these marches >> um if they step out of line, they should be arrested. Some of them >> get busted. All right. So, can you say continue >> to protest against to protest against the way the Israel Israelis are behaving towards the Palestinians?

[00:20:36]I mean, that that's totally acceptable.

[00:20:40]>> Okay. Okay. I want to move on. Thank you so much. Thank you, Howard. Ela and Kent. Hi.

[00:20:46]>> Hello, Jeremy.

[00:20:47]>> Sorry. So many people wanted to talk.

[00:20:49]Yes. What would you like to say?

[00:20:51]>> Um, well, slightly different perspective on it. I was uh visiting my husband at St. Thomases in London and witnessed Palestinian marches across Westminster Bridge into Parliament Square and likewise witnessed Ukrainian demonstrations into Parliament Square.

[00:21:08]The Ukrainians joined hands across the bridge and didn't interrupt traffic, didn't threaten people, and didn't feel in any way intimidated. Uh, and it was a peaceful demonstration and one I would wholly support. The Palestinians on the other hand wore black hood masks full yashmax completely blocked the bridge couldn't get to the hospital completely intimidated. Subsequently I went to Charing Cross station again couldn't cross the station because of the uh nature of of the the demonstrators there were were so intimidating. Um and I know they say they're not hate marches but all I could feel was hate on that day.

[00:21:51]>> Okay. um and on day since.

[00:21:53]>> Thank you. Andrew Capilli, what would you like to say?

[00:21:56]>> Hello, Jeremy. Thank you for having me on the show. First of all, I' like to say that the the Jewish community have been persecuted for decades, if not hundreds of years, even before the black shirts have mostly uh raided uh Jewish communities during the 30s. But first of all, next I like to say I was against the marches, but having what listened to your debate, I'm now pro the marches because of the Zionist that sat next to you.

[00:22:23]>> Well, I thought let's not throw terms around you. I'm guessing you don't wouldn't accept that description.

[00:22:28]>> Well, I'm Jews are pro he's pro IDF.

[00:22:33]He is pro IDF who uh have killed uh ambulance drivers and buried them in the sand who has targeted health and uh relief workers and who have uh had snipers shooting >> women and children.

[00:22:53]>> Let Jonathan respond to that. Andrew, >> what what do you want me to respond to?

[00:22:57]>> Well, he's you >> know, I'm sorry. I know this is the format of your show, but you brought me here to to try and defend against three individual cases that he thinks are IDF abuses. Is that what you want? How long have we got though?

[00:23:08]>> That's Well, Andrew, um you're not going to get a response to that and it's not Jonathan. But I'm I'm perfectly happy response, but this is a ridiculous format to invite a caller on to to say that because I because as a Jew, I support the historic right of Jews for national self-determination in their homeland in Israel. and because he doesn't like three things he's read about the IDF which would take us probably an hour to discuss the intricacies of any case he's coming up with and because of that I don't want to discuss it and this was meant to be an invitation to talk about anti-semitism but thanks a lot for Andrew from Kafili I'm pleased that your deep insights into the Middle East and and military strategy and fighting in fighting in Gaza I mean I don't understand what this is >> people I'm sorry you're undermining me you're undermining me the intention is not to undermine you but what I feel you are not understanding is that there are people who are just we cannot bear we cannot bear we couldn't bear the suffering on on October the 7th we cannot bear the ongoing suffering now and it feels like what's happening and then talking about Israel here but this is what's leading to the spikes in anti-mitism because of danger you think I enjoy war you think that I enjoy war have to defend you think any of the people that have to serve in a war where they have to fight against an enemy that embeds itself in civilian infrastructure that embeds itself in hospitals that uses journalists in journalist press vest also as jihadist terrorists. Do you think that they enjoy having to fight against that? Oh, roll your eyes. What do you know about it? What do you actually know about what's going on?

[00:24:36]Have you been there? Can I make a very quick?

[00:24:39]>> I think the point that Andrew might be trying to make is that there are legitimate reasons for people to go on these protests and therefore is it right to ban them if there are people on the protest who are not being anti-semitic who are just angry with the situation that's going on in the Middle East and they want to go there and peacefully protest. like you're listen you're making a reasonable point and that part of what this guy said is reasonable but if you want to protest against something go and do it you know go and go and have a fixed protest in a park where you don't disrupt other people's lives where that lady who phoned in who was terrified by it where plenty of other people I know Jewish and non-Jewish find it intimidating and bullying when you have a political opinion however strongly held about however tragic a war anywhere in the world and you want to raise awareness of it the best way to do that is not to try and intimidate or bully people into agreeing with you or to get in their way constantly. That is not a democratic right. Nobody has a democratic right to make us feel smaller in this country, Jewish or non-Jewish, British people. If you want to protest against it, do it in a civilized way. Do it in a way that doesn't call for jihad, doesn't call for inifada, doesn't call Kaiba kaiba yayood, harking back to, you know, the tale of when the Muslims army of of Muhammad slaughtered the Jews.

[00:25:50]Don't do it in in those terms. And that is what people are complaining about.

[00:25:53]These rallies which have been week in week out for over two and a half years.

[00:25:56]They have intimidated Jews. And now we've got to a point where Jews have been stabbed, Jews have been uh killed, Jews have been rammed at synagogue. Uh Jewish venues have been firebombed.

[00:26:06]Jewish ambulances have been tortured, which is the reason that I'm in your studio here today. Uh, and and I will tell you that you may not think there's a connection between the two, but thousands of Jewish people do feel it because we feel it every day in our lives when the same thing then spills out into the streets, spills out into people coming to us in the street and abusing us with the same slogans they heard in those rallies. So, by all means, protest against it, but do it like a civilized person in a democratic and respectful way, not these marches.

[00:26:32]>> Thank you, Jonathan Sasha Doy, for joining us. Later, it's the papers and everything else. We'll talk about the bar manager who refused to serve people apparently because they support reform.

[00:26:40]After the break, we're asking if the king's visit to the states was worth it in the end. Has Charles help bolster the special relationship? 0207862 is the number you need. See you shortly.