This video presents a live debate examining whether Jesus is God, featuring arguments from both Christian and Muslim perspectives. The Christian debater presents biblical evidence including Jesus' divine attributes (omnipotence over nature, authority over creation), Old Testament references to a second divine power, and New Testament passages where Jesus claims equality with God. The Muslim debater counters by distinguishing between Jesus' human and divine natures, arguing that Jesus' statements about the Father being the only true God indicate a subordinate relationship rather than equality. The debate explores complex theological concepts including the Trinity, biblical interpretation, and the nature of God's presence in creation.
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LIVE DEBATES: Is Jesus God?Ajouté :
Hey, hey, hey.
What's up? We We in here Tuesday night on a Tuesday. How we living? You know what? My one mistake tonight. I should have grabbed my iPad so I could watch the uh so I could watch the game between the Timberwolves and the Spurs.
It's close game. Seven-point game. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? How we living? How we doing?
What's my thought on the Dallas Cowboys?
Pain. That's my thought on the Dallas Cowboys. Pain.
Yeah. Pacers. Tough. Tough go. Tough go.
Um, being a Dallas Cowboys fan is tough.
Uh, I do think we're we are poised to have a better year. Uh, so we'll see. We shall see.
That's my thoughts.
You know what I'm saying?
Oh, I got a text. I got to text Rich.
He's going He's gonna join me. Let him know I'm live.
Rich and I are debating if Jesus is God in a couple of weeks.
Um, he wanted to join me. I I don't know if he was joining me immediately. We'll see. We'll see.
We'll see.
Shoot him a text.
Shoot him a Oh, he is. He's here. He's What's up?
>> What up, man? How are you, bro? doing good. My my chair my chair gets caught on like the little plastic sometimes, you know.
Hold on. Let me add this real quick because that's what's gonna >> do I sound that's what's gonna make sure people can hear.
And then do you on uh will I be able to hear on Tik Tok or will I need to just >> You may you may need to pop your phone over on Tik Tok as well.
>> Okay.
>> I gota I there's a way to do it. I just got to figure out the audio between the two in terms of in internal guests.
>> What translation do I recommend? Um there there's some good translations. I I I read the Oh, I stuttered. I read the SV version. Um that's what a lot of churches use. That's what um Rich and I churches church use. That's what my last church used. Um you know, this is this is an English standard version. Uh I also have some CSB Bibles. I also like the NASB.
Um but there's there's a lot of good translations out there.
So >> KJV is good as well. You know, you want to go old school.
>> What you read the King James?
>> Yeah, I said I said KJV is good if you want to go old school. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't want to go old school. I like I like reading in my language.
I like reading in my own language.
So Oh, we got a we got a guest over on TikTok. How's it going?
>> What's up, man?
>> Doing all right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Do you um you disagree with the prompt?
>> Maybe if you can explain it to me. What is Jesus? And who's Jesus?
>> Are you a Muslim?
>> Yes.
>> So you know who Jesus is?
>> That I want to know what you know about Jesus.
>> Uh that he's God.
>> God can know everything and do everything. And Jesus did not know everything and cannot do everything.
>> That's not true.
>> Jesus, >> what did he do that proves he's God?
>> Jesus has those attributes. Uh what do you mean? I I give you an example. Um can a can a human being stop a storm?
>> By the will of God, he can.
>> No. No. On on his own, by his own py by his own power, his own merit.
>> No.
>> No. Well, Jesus does that. No, >> he he just tells He just tells the storm, uh, "Peace, be still." And it just does it.
>> I could pull it up for you. Um, what chapter in Mark is that?
>> So, the other verses in your book, it does not mean that he's a human being also.
>> Well, let's let's look at let's look at this one. Let's look at this one first.
>> Okay. Let's look at this one. Tell me the the the verse and what chapter.
>> Yeah, I'll pull it up so you can see it.
Uh, >> I want to pull it up on my side, too.
>> Mark 4, the story is Mark 4:35 through 41.
So, um, should have checked this beforehand, but it should be all right. I think we're good.
No result found.
That's why because I typed in ESV.
Um, so you want me to read you the story?
>> No, where is it? said 36.
>> It says, "So on that day when evening had come, he being Jesus said to them, "Let us go across the other side." And leaving the crowd, they took him with them in the boat just as he was, and the other boats were with him. And a great windstorm arose, and the waves were breaking into the boat. So the boat was already filling, but he was in the stern asleep on the cushion. And they awoke him and said to him, "Teacher, do you not care? We are perishing." And he awoke and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, "Peace, be still." And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said to them, "Why are you so afraid?
Have you still no faith?" And they were filled with great fear and said to one another, "Who who then is this that even the wind in the sea obey him?"
So who else does the wind and the sea obey other than God?
>> What God? Many prophets did the same thing. Moses split the sea in half and we know that's from God.
>> But he commanded these things.
>> Who else does the people that lived with them? Did they know God did it or Moses in front of them?
I don't know why you're talking about Moses because we're talking about Jesus.
>> I'm talking about all the prophets have miracles like this.
>> Answer me. Answer me this question. This qu this conversation won't last long if you can't be honest.
>> Who in this passage is the wind in the sea? Obeying >> cause Jesus like you stated like the verse stated Jesus was in the stream.
sleeping on the cushion. I don't know why God sleeps, but he's sleeping >> cuz he also incarnated into a man.
>> Here's here's the thing.
>> But that doesn't mean he lost his powers.
>> Here's the thing.
>> However, >> exactly. He he commands the wind and the sea.
>> So, here's the other thing you're you're missing from the story, too. There's actually a backdrop to this story.
>> You see, there's another prophet named Jonah.
and he actually found himself in the same position and he throws himself into the sea off of a ship and God and not Jonah. Jonah does nothing. He does not comp command the sea. He does not command the waves. He does nothing. God stops the storm because Jonah tells the people that if I if I give myself up that God will do it. And so here we have a call back to that. But instead of the God of the Old Testament, which is still Yahweh, but instead of God the Father doing it, we now have Jesus doing it.
This is a picture of Jesus in his omnipotence. He has power over even the elements of of the the the sea and the wind.
Okay, let's go back and read more and see if your um understanding of this it's what it is that Jesus is God. So if we go back and read all the verses of the Bible, can we see that some miracles happened as Jesus raised the dead?
Right? Okay. When he raised that boy, did he look up and said, "Thank you, God, because you answered me or listened to me."
>> I don't even know what verse you're right now.
>> You don't know that one.
>> I I mean, I'm familiar with the stories, but you're you're not giving me an an actual passage. But here's the thing.
I'm I'm not going to let you run. I need you to acknowledge the truth that that Jesus is displaying an attribute that only God has in this passage. You want to go somewhere else?
>> No, we'll talk about this. That's fine.
And I did answer you. I said many prophets did miracles in front of the people to prove that they're holy.
They're prophets. And nobody can explain that. They didn't see God come in and do these things in front of them. They just saw these men that chosen by God doing these miracles in front of them. And I gave you an example of Moses, >> right? So this is my answer for this because your other verses in your book.
Jesus keeps saying I'm not doing anything from my own. It's from my father that is in heaven. I'm not saying anything from my own. It's the father in heaven.
>> Yeah. So So how then would that not make him god if he does everything the father does?
>> Because he's talking about separate eternity, a separate God.
>> He's talking about a separate being.
Father in heaven, me on earth, I'm commanded by him.
>> You probably have to talk to him on TikTok, Rich.
>> Let me let me be on this.
>> That's why same thing I hear from you.
>> Sorry, Richard was going to say he was having an echo.
>> Jesus clearly said, I thought you put an echo sound. Jesus clearly says that >> and I I gotta have to keep quoting this verse.
>> All right. So So uh Abu Bakr, so how can there be a separation if if Jesus is saying whatever whatever the father does I can do. Whatever is in the father whatever's in the father's hands is in my hand. How can how can there be a separation if if he's saying whatever God has is I have wouldn't he be equating himself with God?
>> No. All the prophets said the same thing that whatever God is ordering you I'm you have to listen to me. I connected with God. Whatever I say this is what God said.
>> This is clearly a prophet saying.
>> Okay. Can you show me a prophet that says um whatever God can do I can do or whatever is in God's hands is in my hand. Can you show me a prophet?
>> No prophet would say even Jesus that whatever God can do I can do but whatever God say I say yes >> because >> yeah Jesus said >> but Jesus also said I don't know nothing and I was sent >> from God.
>> Let's let's address what let's address the first part. Jesus says whatever the father can do I do also. So Jesus >> predict other verses.
>> No, it doesn't. It doesn't. So wait, just according to that verse there, Jesus would be more than a prophet, right? He can do whatever the father can do.
>> Where is it? In John 16:7, it says, "My teaching is not from me. It's from the one who sent me."
>> Funny enough, when you go to John 16, he says, "Uh, all things have been delivered. The father has delivered all things to the son."
So, do prophets have all things?
>> If you go to John 16 15, it says, "All things that the father has are mine.
Therefore, said I, that he shall take of mine and shall show it unto you." So Jesus says, "Everything that the father has is his." Can uh can a prophet say that?
You see, there we go. Yeah, it's on the screen. Can a prophet make that statement? All that the father has is mine.
>> All the keep going.
>> This is the state.
>> Therefore, I said, >> yeah, it says, therefore I uh therefore said I that or it's on the screen.
Therefore, I said that he will take what is mine and declare it unto you.
>> Right.
>> What will he take that it is his? He's he's talking to his disciples. So he's saying that the father >> Yeah. Yeah. God will take what's his and give it to the disciples. What he will take. So here so so here so here and yeah he's talking about the coming of the Holy Spirit because he's about to send his disciples out. Now I want us I just want us to focus. Okay.
>> Wait a second before before we move on to another verse. But you said he he will take from what and who and give it to >> let's address the first part first before we try and >> this is the first part.
>> No no no no. The first part is all that the father has is mine. Let's focus on that right now.
>> Okay. But the second part will explain it.
>> Yes. Wait, wait, wait. Can a prophet make that statement? That first part.
>> Before the prophet make the statement, we need to complete the statement first.
Wait, wait a second. Wait, wait. Can a prophet make this statement that you see here? Every >> We have to finish it. We have to finish the statement. You have to finish the statement to understand it. Let's address this first because you're trying to skip over this.
>> This is part of it. It's not the whole thing.
>> This is a simple yes or no. Can a prophet say everything that God has is mine? Yes or no?
>> It's impossible for him to say that because everything the father has Jesus did not have >> according to >> God almighty.
>> God does not die does not sleep. Jesus dies and sleep. God does not eat. Jesus eats. God was not born. Jesus was born.
>> How is that compatible?
>> I'm a bacher. You have a good one.
>> We gave it our best shot. We gave it our best shot.
>> Uh hello. Hello. Am I audible?
>> Yeah.
How's it going?
>> Um I'm good. How about you guys >> doing well? Are you a Muslim? Are you a what what's your what's your what's your worldview background? Well, that's what I was going to ask. Um, is this like most is this just like an interfaith conversation? Because I'm an atheist, so if it's not like the topic for today, then I can come back a different day or something. But, >> uh, yeah. I mean, typically Muslims, like Jehovah's Witnesses, uh, you know, maybe a well, a Mormon if they were honest. Um, yeah. Uh, so yeah. I mean, I mean, um, unless the the we're we're discussing if Jesus is God or not. We're willing. If you want to have that conversation, you can.
>> Um, I mean, I mean, we can if you want.
I don't think it'll be like I can I'd just be granting a lot of stuff, so I don't think it'd be like super substantive.
>> Sure.
>> But, um, I It's funny. I actually used to be a Jehovah's Witness. Do Do you get many Jehovah's Witnesses on here?
>> I just I usually don't hear people like bring them up that often.
>> Yeah, I I don't I don't really talk to him, but Rich does.
>> Rich, do you know someone named uh Synthetic?
>> Synthetic? No, I haven't yet, but Do you know Michael?
>> Michael? Um, no. Oh, do you know Reductio? Maybe he goes by Reductio on here.
>> I've heard of Reductio. We may have spoken, but I' I've heard of the name.
>> Yeah, that's that's one of my good guy.
It's one of my good buddies.
>> Okay. Yeah. One of the guys I've talked to the most is Michael. Uh he's he's apparently the top guy on Tik >> Tokarian when he talked with me, but you know.
>> Okay. Um well, maybe maybe we won't like I don't I don't really want to get into like a big debate with you guys right now. Um but >> Well, let me just let me just ask you this.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> What made you leave Jehovah's uh witnesses?
I'm >> always curious.
>> Their Yeah. I thought their doctrine was false.
>> Okay. Did you >> um Did you just move straight to atheism or did you do something else?
>> No, it was a long progression. So, I've been out for like two years. So, it's like a two-year progression. So, I was um after I left, I became a Christian and then after I was or like some I was a Baptist for a little bit and then I became then I just uh talked to like some friends online and like some Catholics and whatnot and kind of got interested in like apostolic inquiry and then um I kind of was unconvinced of Christianity um or at least Christian theism and then I became like a nondescript theist so I just thought a god existed in general uh and then I was unconvinced of that view. became agnostic and then I heard affirmative arguments for atheism so I became an atheist.
>> Interesting.
>> Um >> interesting.
>> Yeah. But I was I was curious like so I like I said I I don't I won't debate with you too much about it but I am curious like when you say Jesus is God um I would want to know like how you're getting from like Jesus existed like let's say all the miracles happened Jesus resurrected. Yeah.
>> How are we get I just don't uh How would you get from like that to he's God?
>> Um well I I think I think there's a lot of theological uh reasons behind that. Are you familiar with um the two powers in heaven motif?
>> Uh no. Is there could you briefly explain it? Um, so essentially pre-rebbitic Jews, there was a group of them that um clearly viewed a that there was a second deity of the of Yahweh. I like I don't want to you know semantics there there's a second Yahweh in personhood. So they would have been like um oh there's a word for it. They're not trinitarians but they're like benitarians.
>> Um okay. And they were drawing this from Old Testament texts like Genesis 19:24 where um the Lord in heaven reigns down fire and sulfur from the Lord uh on Sodom and Gomorrah. Um you have uh the divine son of man in the book of Daniel who goes and sits on the throne and receives uh the kingdom of God. And so they looked at different passages in the Old Testament and recognized that Yahweh was um was uh you know of multi- of multi-person. And so then Jesus comes along and we're seeing that he's the the fulfillment of um of this this second Yahweh person in the Old Testament.
>> Okay. So, if I'm understanding just roughly, you're saying that we have corroboration with um like proven prophecies that would lend us reasons to think that Jesus is God or something along that line. Something along those lines.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Um interesting. All right. Um yeah, like I said, I won't debate you on it right now. Um do you do lives specifically like for just like if God exists or is it mostly just like these kind of topics? I I I used to do more like atheist stuff. Um I t I typically uh am conversating with uh with Muslims uh these days.
>> So >> I I pity you.
>> You know, I'm I'm a I'm a glutton for for punishment. I just I uh I just I I I don't know. Something about me is uh more intrigued by it. So >> I suppose it's better to have a positive outlook on it. Yeah, that's right. I guess >> um All right. Well, I'll drop down then.
You guys have a good night.
>> Yeah, you too.
Y'all do me a favor on TikTok. Get the likes up. I would much appreciate it. Uh if it'll let you share the live, share the live. Sometimes the desktop can be a little can be a can be a little bit of a pain, but um get it out there. Um wow. From I got a Russian Christian over on YT. What's up? What's up? It's got What time is it there? Geez. Adam Bomb, what's up? Um, shout out to LA Apologetics. Uh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate y'all hitting the likes. It's interesting, Rich. I feel like whenever I do this topic, nobody wants to talk to me about it.
Feel like um >> I've noticed the same thing, bro. when I when I was running, you know, I I still do, but with uh Jesus is God, like I don't know, people are just not really you either get atheists or you get Muslims.
>> Yeah. I just I I like to mix it up though, right? I don't always want to be doing polyimics. Like I also want to be um showing people that that Jesus is God. Um, >> and so I'm mainly, if anyone comes up, like I'm mainly running like the the argument that he that he has the uh Oh, well, I'll give a shout out to this book for any for anyone who's in the chat. U couple scholars, uh, Robert Bowman and Jay Ed Kazawinsky and, uh, it's called the incarnate Christ and his critics. If you if you want to um debate or I mean debate is a good word. If you want to show people that Jesus is God, particularly if you're engaging with Muslims, if you're engaging with Jehovah's Witnesses, uh if you're engaging with Unitarians, um man, this is this is the book to get.
and he he breaks it down really simply uh for just an acronym that uh he calls it the hands acronym that Jesus um he has the honor of God, the attributes of God, the name of God, he does the deeds of God and he sits on the throne of God and that's so that's kind of the argument that if anyone um anyone asks that's that's what I'm that's what I'm presenting. You know what I'm saying?
>> Oh yeah. Uh what I what I present now is just um I just when people come up I'm just I have them explain to me what um idolatry is.
>> You you haven't explained what >> what idolatry is.
>> Oh idolatry. Okay.
>> Yeah. The worship of another god and this and that. I'm like okay so if you know in heaven you know we or angelic you know beings or anyone else is worshiping anyone other than god that would be idolatry right? So then why is Jesus receiving worship? Why does Jesus sit on the throne of God? And what happens, and this is where I get really frustrated, is that people are so dishonest to her. They'll say, "My camera's going now." They'll say, "Um, oh yeah, it's okay that Jesus sits on the throne of God, receives worship, uh, you know, the Bible says the throne belongs to him, that that's okay." And I'm like, "How is that not paganism?
How do you how do we not cross the line of paganism?" And John, he always asks like if if he does everything, he creates, he gives life, he judges, he does everything God can do, but he just doesn't have the title essentially.
>> Yep.
>> Yep. Well, dude, you don't understand.
He's actually just a divine agent.
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah.
>> That basically does everything and claims to be, you know, the king himself.
>> He can take he can take God's name and everything that God does. He's he's not which in one sense he's he's not the father, right? So there's that that part of it, but we got to guess bring him up.
Blue, how's it going?
>> It's going good. Um, thanks for bringing me up. I just had a quick question off of the u um I think that was the last guest um that you mentioned about the uh I guess extra biblical um mention of the second power of heaven um in the second Yahweh. Um but if that's the case um why didn't they take that also for consideration of a third person being that the spirit of the Lord um is also mentioned um in the text like how how does then I guess trinitarianism later down the line you know have now another person um added on to essentially three powers in heaven in essence.
>> Yeah, I think that's a great question. I mean, I think if anyone's um if anyone is honest, they they have to acknowledge uh progressive revelation. And so, I think we can look back and see that the that the spirit is God. Um but it doesn't mean that they fully uh they understood that the spirit is God. I don't know if they understood that he was his own person, right? Like it's like in the Old Testament, it's called the he's called the spirit of God. It's not that it's not that they're they're confused, right? Um but Jesus comes along and that's where we discover that the Holy Spirit is a person, right?
Because Jesus promises his disciples uh that he will come uh another will come and uh the comforter, right? Uh who will uh you know do all that he does, bring memory, you know, of what Jesus taught.
um you know he he comes in and dwells in the in the people of God. Um and he's the third um I think something important to note he is he is God dwelling with us right so check this out in the Old Testament you know the father however you want to say it like he he dwells with the people in the tabernacle in the temple then Jesus comes in John 1:14 like he literally tabernacles with us that Jesus is God incarnate in the flesh who comes and dwells among us and then Jesus leaves and the spirit comes and dwells among us. Right? So all three are three persons of of the trinity all representing uh God's presence with us because they're all three um a part of the same divine essence.
>> Okay. Um yeah. So would you take that as far as I guess in the Old Testament um you know when there's mentions of the spirit of God and God's spirit as that being do you think they saw that as another person or being that God is spirit I think you know Christ mentioned that um speaking to the woman at the well that God is a spirit um and you know I think in the Old Testament I think it mentions you know it's not by might but it'll be by my spirit sayith the Lord Would you take how do you differentiate there when it's you know the spirit of God in reference to you know the one person of God which they definitely would have known which is the father versus that being a distinct person from the father.
>> I mean I got thoughts. You want to give your thoughts though Rich?
Yeah. Just in general of like the distinctions in the Trinity.
>> Yeah. I guess in in in references of the uh of the Old Testament um where you have references of God's spirit um and the I guess the the Old Testament saints at that time. Do you think they would have had that same understanding to say the spirit of the spirit of God here is a person that is not God the father essentially being that God is spirit >> and you yesterday about this um I think you can make the argument that um they did have a concept of that and and here's why Nehemiah 9 shows that the father sends the spirit So you see a distinction between the father sending down the spirit towards his people and then in Genesis chapter 1 you see three distinct um uh identities of God being present at creation. So you have the father, you have the word and then you have the spirit all present in creation.
So you see countless times specifically with the spirit that God sends the spirit down to prophets but then the whoever the writer is says you know when the spirit is is speaking it's attributing it as God speaking. So you see a lot of distinctions there. Um Isaiah 48:16 is another one where you know the Lord and his spirit have sent me but yet it's God speaking in Isaiah 48. So I think you see distinctions all throughout. Then Proverbs 30, you see the father and the son, right? And the and the father has been with the son since the very beginning. And so you see another distinction, right, with the father and the son. And then obviously in the New Testament, the word is called the son, right?
>> The claim itself, >> uh, yeah, I would say there's distinctions all throughout, but you know, you consistently see, you know, the word of the Lord, the the angel of the Lord, the father himself, all being attributed to being God. Here here's the last thing I'll recommend and this this is really for anyone who's interested.
Um so my buddy my buddy Than he recently did um he recently did a video um on the trinity in the Old Testament. So um so it's called the two powers in heaven the Jewish roots of the trinity over on inspiring philosophy. Um encourage you to if you want to check that out. I know it's a little but that great research. I mean he put an hour worth of work into it and then he debated a Muslim on it like the next day.
>> So um yeah.
>> Right. Okay. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
>> Belle, what's up? Shout out.
>> What's up?
>> Yo, appreciate the super chat. Jesus is king. Let's go. Let's go.
Just living our just living our best life out here trying to tell these anybody who's willing to listen really not just Muslims that Jesus is God.
Absolutely.
Man, how you doing, Rich? You doing good?
>> Doing good, bro.
>> Yeah, >> I'm doing good. Getting ready for this debate.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I know. I'm I'm I'm like dual I'm like dual preparation right now because I've got the one coming up on Saturday and then the one us two next us two next week. I got a couple things I gota I gotta take care of for the one on um the the one on Saturday still.
>> Which which one is what's the topic for this Saturday?
>> Muhammad in the Bible.
>> Ah that's a good one.
>> Yeah. So >> who is it again?
Uh I don't know what he wants like what he goes by but his uh his TikTok is Rabbi Yagami.
So um we already we already debated it once but he wanted to do a formal debate. So we'll do it again.
>> Remember corrupted full of errors and contradictions. You can't trust it.
>> Yeah.
>> Prophesized Muhammad. So therefore Islam is true.
>> Absolutely.
Absolutely. Whatever Whatever it takes, right? Whatever it takes.
>> Whatever it takes.
>> Just >> That's fire, man. Yeah, bro. I'm good, man. I um Oh, so a friend of mine, we went to the We went to the mosque again.
>> Okay. Wow. No invite.
>> It was like late at night, so yeah, you were It was >> past. Yeah.
>> But, uh it was it was actually on a Friday. Uh and we weren't really planning to. We were at UT and then we were just like, "All right, you know, let's let's walk around." And then um we hit up the mosque. And so we were talking to these Muslims. We're outside.
Everything was chill. And then they were like, "Hey, do you want to come inside?"
And so we were thinking they were going to bring us, you know, to spot where we can sit down. I was like, "Maybe the shake is here. We can talk to the shake." We sat down in like remember when the first time we went in the in the prayer hall >> as people were praying. And so they're like, um, yeah, you know, Muhammad's this great prophet, the Quran, yada yada yada yada. And so the guy went like five minutes about how perfect the Quran is.
And I said, okay. And he was like, the Bible's corrupted. No offense. The Trinity doesn't make sense. I like, okay. And I asked him, I said, in Surah 5, if the gospel is is corrupted, why is Allah telling us Christians to judge by it? And if we don't judge by it, we're wrongdoers. And in some translations, it actually says unbelievers. Um, and then, you know, he was like denying it. And I'm like, well, the whole concept in chapter five is that Allah is saying, Muhammad, you have the Quran. Jews, you have the Torah. Christians, you have the Injil. And so, if I wanted you guys to be one community, I would have made it so. But I'm doing this to test you and you will all of you will return to me.
So, why would Allah tell me to judge by a corrupted book? Because I asked them, was it corrupted before or after Muhammad? And they said before. I was like, okay. And we were couldn't answer it. Denying the text. We had to pull up the Quran. And then uh the guy that we met, I I forgot his name, but the guy that we met the first time pulled up and he saw me and like had the the meanest frown on his face.
>> The guy that we talked to, the one that I got his number.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh wow.
>> He had the meanest the meanest mug on his face. He was not happy to see me.
And so they they were like and they're praying and then this other guy comes in. Oh, I want to hop in a conversation.
um it's not telling you to judge by the ge yada yada yada yada yada. And then eventually like we started to get shushed. So I was like, "All right, let's let's go ahead and dip out before we get y'all in trouble."
>> And the guy was like, because it's already like 10 p.m. So he's like, "Oh, like you know, can you stay for like 10 minutes and then we'll talk." And I was just like >> I was like, "We I really want to, but no, we should because we're going to be at it all night."
>> Yeah.
>> And I was like, "And we're at home base, so you know what I'm saying? We we don't watch our steps then." Yeah.
So, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We We should definitely go again. We should try and like like go in the daytime and be like, "Hey, like we want to talk to the shake."
>> Yeah.
>> A good time with the shake, you know?
So, that was fun, man. That was fun. But uh yeah, we gotta we gotta definitely get some like um like I don't know if we'll ever be able to record in the in the in the masid, but like just get some >> not in >> content talking to Muslims evangelizing.
They're Jehovah Witnesses near the campus too.
>> Yeah, I'd love to talk to Jehovah's Witness too. This >> and everything. So >> Oh, man. I what's tough is I you know well did you go because now uh school's out for college kids.
>> Uhuh.
>> So I don't know what the campus is like.
It's as busy.
>> They have summer school but >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But around the area though because you have the Scientology, the Mormon church which we visited and then uh if you go past the Mormon church, there's a specific area where the Jehovah Witnesses are. Hebrew Israel are there as well. So, you feel >> I ain't talking to them, bro.
>> They don't They don't want to talk to me, man. I don't I don't got enough melanin in my skin, bro.
>> Yeah. Although, I don't I think, dude, I don't think I think they're out on on Nigerians.
>> The Hebrews.
>> Yeah.
>> Really?
land now.
>> I IP's raiding the stream.
>> IP's here. Hey, >> just to see IP rating incoming. They were because they were reviewing um uh I don't know if you saw uh God Logic's wife. Uh >> she went on the I I watched the whole thing. It's pretty good. She went on she did one I think it was supposed to be 20 Muslims.
>> Eight of them eight of them didn't show.
Y >> love it. Little IP raid. I I I appreciate it. I appreciate it.
>> Shout out IP.
>> Yeah, I'll pull up.
>> Get Give me Get me up in the algorithm.
Get some people in here to talk about a Jesus is God.
>> That's what I That's what I need, man.
Just get the get it going. Get it popping.
So >> maybe you should have like prove me wrong.
Um, >> I just have live debate. Is Jesus God?
>> Oh, I'm looking at I see on Tik Tok.
Hey, then you The thing is fire, bro.
>> Oh, yeah. You like that?
>> You have a suit to make it.
>> Uh, no, dude. I had a I had a guy uh do like a whole branding thing for me.
>> What's up? Yo, pulling up.
>> Hey.
>> Yo, y'all y'all y'all get the likes up.
Get the >> IP >> get the get the stream out there. get some people in here that want to debate on if Jesus is God or not.
>> Also, I don't know if you've modded me on on YT, but because I can't see I can see the comments, but I can't see what people request.
>> Oh. Oh, you'll see them down. You'll see them down here. They'll show up >> in the Okay. I don't know if I can do anything here on StreamYard, but on >> But yeah, if somebody like if if somebody pulls up on Streamyard, they'll uh you'll see them. Um, somebody bring them up.
>> What? I don't know.
>> Okay.
>> But I I can uh but I can bring them up.
Yeah. Like like the video. Get get it out there. See if we can get some some non-Christians in here to debate if Jesus is God. It's just been it's been uh it's been it's been chill, man. Well, I guess what time is it? Okay. They probably they went for about they went since like Well, they were late. They they started at like 7:30 central. I guess they I guess they wrapped it up already. Uh, did I say YT or YD? I said YT. I don't I'm on I'm live on Tik Tok, so I don't say I don't say the full word. That that's that's that's no no over on uh over on Tik Tok. You don't say the full word.
White tea. That's right. I got my No, my my white tea on. Yeah. Wip wip.
Oh, see somebody disagrees. Come on. Get in here. Send me a request up.
>> Talk about if Jesus is God or not.
>> Yeah.
>> In the meantime, I was actually I was watching IP stream a little bit before I before I hopped on live.
>> I was watching his uh Yeah. M white.
That's That's a reference right there.
Uh I was watching his stream a little bit. It was good. He had uh Avery and Christina on and they were just chatting it up about uh >> one one Muslim versus uh >> or one Christian versus 12 Muslims. I want to see I actually have a Jubilee contact. I I want to see um I want to see Avery on Jubilee >> going yet.
>> One Christian versus 20 Muslims.
>> I don't know that yet.
>> I know that's going viral.
>> Yeah.
>> Like I mean Mike Mike's got he just went on Jubilee. He's got to have a Jubilee contact as well. Um and so yo appreciate everybody raing here. Hit the likes on the stream. Get it up. We can get it out there. Yo, the they're scared tonight. They don't they don't they don't want the smoke.
>> I'm scared.
>> They don't want the smoke on Jesus's God. That's that's what I'm learning. A lot a lot of these I don't know what it is about there was a time here's what happens, bro. This is literally what happens when they don't when they don't know who you are.
>> They they they all pull up like they all they all want the smoke and then after a while you start debating them and they realize like oh this ain't that easy.
And then all of a sudden like they don't >> they don't pull up anymore.
>> Yeah.
>> Maybe we can hit them with the Uno reverse. I I'll start I'll get on on YouTube. They're gonna be like, "Oh yeah, this dude. Yeah, we're gonna this dude." And then they'll start flooding in.
>> Here's here's the thing, though. The YouTube call-in streamers. Uh I've had a couple a couple wild ones, but for the most part, they they are way better.
Like, dude, Tik Tok's a wild wild west, man. You know what I'm saying? like you just don't know what you're going to get over on um >> hit or miss.
>> Yeah. Over on Tik Tok. Whereas YouTube get a lot better conversations. It's like I don't know more regional people live over on YouTube. Um >> Tik Tok is a devil.
>> But we got there there's a there's a Muslim in the chat. Um yeah, come come on up. You can you can request up and we can talk about if Jesus is God.
>> We can talk we can talk about John 17:3 if you want. But notice, can you leave?
>> No problem with that.
>> Can you leave the super chat >> or is it flash?
>> Yeah, we can leave it up.
>> I just, you know, notice guys how in order to have eternal life, you still have to have Jesus. Jesus and the father are equated in this verse. And of course, two verses later, he has glory before he shares glory with the father before the creation of the world. But you see here y'all that in order to have eternal life, you have to have the father and you have to have the son. All right? You can't have one without the other. So like this is not proving anything. And again, the only true is modifying God, not the father. There's only one true God. And of course, the father says Jesus is God in Hebrews one.
>> Hey, Rad Radar apologetics. Um I think I saw I think I saw he's over on uh Tik Tok. I think I saw you over on Avery's channel at some point.
>> Hey, brother Red.
>> So, I've been grinding for a while though.
>> Just man, somebody come up here and disagree a little bit. You know what I'm saying?
>> I can uh I feel like I can give the argument against um his deity that might attract people.
So yeah, totally uh Jesus says that uh the father is the only true God. So I mean that's that's clear enough for me.
>> I love it. Just just quote quote mining verses. Quote mining verses. Yo there is a there's a link you can come request up talk to me.
We don't reject that Jesus is a man.
This is God incarnate.
Yes. Yes. Definitely. Let's get to 100 100 likes. Yeah. All up. All up praise.
All up. Praise >> 100%.
What y'all What did y'all think of uh of um the debate between Lady Logic and um and uh the 12 Muslims?
What were the thoughts?
>> Hey, RIP hadith.
>> Yeah, they they just just shoveled them.
We don't just get what are you talking about?
>> No, what what got me was when the lady was like, "Yeah, the the the hadiths are not are not uh the Quran is not scripture. The Quran was real revealed for over 23 years." Lady was like, "Wait, wait. Where'd you get that from?"
>> The hadith.
How do you know Muhammad uh you know met met an angel in a cave and uh went back and didn't believe it was an angel at first? Right.
>> Had to have a family member tell him it was >> those hadith were going through it, bro.
Just deny it. And it's just like and then she said she said that when you bring up hadiths, they have to be sahi.
And she brought up sahi Muslim. Like I don't know.
>> I know.
>> Not like she's only quoting sahi hadiths. That's all we're seeing here.
>> Yo. Yo. Speaking of speaking of resources though, I just bought this book. It's called before orthodoxy the satanic verses in early in Islam. Super interesting >> because you know the Muslims will reject uh that Muhammad was deceived by Satan.
>> And this this is a scholar just making a case for why the early Muslims believed that Muhammad actually was deceived by Satan. And he quotes over about 50 sources uh from from early Muslim sources. But it is a good job of explaining um just the history and why uh why it's rejected, but why that's not a it's not a reasonable um their reasoning is not is not valid for why they reject. Um >> this guy brought up Matthew 7:23 where Jesus is the judge of all mankind. Come on.
>> Yeah.
>> Come on.
>> He should have said that verse is about you. Yikes.
Yikes.
Oh man, man. No, here's the thing.
Here's here's literally what happens.
That's I'll be like, "Ah, you know, let me just I'll just hop off." And then right right about that time, that's when that's when all the people >> You know what I've been doing? I've done it twice. You gota before you get on, you just gota like just call me and be like, "Yeah, Rich, I'm just going to get on for an hour."
>> Yeah. and then hop on like you get >> that's when they just line up.
>> Helity, bro, it's always when you're about to go or when you if you don't have time, you like literally only have an hour. That's when everybody wants to come there.
>> Yeah, she did. She did. She did take it easy.
>> I love how like you know the Muslims will be talking and she's just like >> Yeah. She's just rocking back and forth just listening the whole time.
>> Yeah. I will I will say though like there was definitely just a huge difference between Kora and just her study of her own religion.
>> Yeah.
>> Compared to the rest of the ladies there like >> that's why life I don't know if you got to see life's like reaction to uh >> I like clicked on it. I watched like 30 seconds of it and then I watched it and he was basically just like Islam. You got to educate your women.
>> Yeah. Because they were saying that Aisha was 19.
>> Yeah.
>> I was like, she literally said she was mine.
>> Almighty long. What's up, dude?
I think that's uh I think that's a friend of mine. I'm like 10 10 toes down positive. So, what's up? Um, Timu Islam. Dude, literally I saw Oh, wait. I saw I saw this quote and in my mind I was like, what's Timu Islam? And then it hit me.
>> You said that put her hijab in sports mode.
>> Wait, who said that?
>> Oh, uh, block.
>> Oh, I see it. I see it. I see it.
>> Oh, man.
>> Yeah, I'm sure this is this is true, right? The problem is the the problem is hadith actually aren't reliable. That's like the >> that's like the real issue. But it's it's you using them helps because hadith are what bury their religion.
>> That's the crazy thing. It's like they're not actually they're not really historically reliable. Critical scholarship doesn't there's no real reason to take them seriously. But it's within the hadith that like wrecks their religion.
>> Oh, bro.
Wow. Dude, you know what? I might Here's what I'm gonna do. I wanna I I should be able to find it. I want to play this video. I'm gonna play this video for the chat. This This video is insane. Uh I gotta see if I can find it.
>> No, no way she said that. There's no way she said that.
>> I I haven't made a response to it yet.
>> Okay, we're gonna I want to play this video for the >> Bro, I can't keep it together, bro.
Oh my goodness. No way she said that.
Can you guys find the Could we We could react to it, right?
>> First rule of belief.
>> You guys find the clip of where she said it was on Sports Mode.
>> She probably said it in their uh I don't know if she said it in the video. She probably said it in the live stream.
>> I gota I have to find it.
>> I gotta find it. Oh, >> I gota I gotta show you I'm gonna show you all this this video. This video is crazy.
This is It's about a hadith. Um Oh my gosh. Here it is.
>> The prophet Muhammad.
>> Okay. Okay. I'mma pull this up.
>> I can see I can see the comments. I'm gonna pull it up. Uh hold on. Hold on. Now you should be able to see it. Okay. So, they'll go here. We go here. So they literally chat should be able to hear this. All right. So they're they're gonna quote a hadith. Just just have you know what's >> it says uh >> okay they're going to read it. I'll let them read it and then just watch what happens.
>> Said if a house fly falls in a drink of any one of you who should dip it in the drink and take it out for one of its wings has a disease and the other one has a cure for the disease.
>> All right. Come come. Watch this. You see the fly? Come zoom in. Yeah. You see the fly there?
>> Yeah.
>> I'm gonna dip that in anyway. Yeah. Dip that in. And then we're gonna take the fly out.
>> Yeah.
>> Fly there.
>> I'm going to drink the drink. Yeah.
>> No.
>> Spread the sunnah to the um you know >> the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam said the prophet Muhammad. Let me >> pause it. There you go.
>> That's crazy.
Crazy. Living it out.
Living it out. They read the hadith and then said, "I'm in. We're doing it."
>> No way.
>> Muhammad Muhammad said, "If you Muhammad said, if a house fly falls in the drink, that one one wing has got the disease, the other's got the cure. So, you need to dip that whole fly in the drink >> and then drink it."
>> Do you remember that?
>> What?
>> We debated We debated a Muslim on that.
>> Yes. He brought up >> They were trying to find scholars. it that >> brought up a biased Muslim medical journal or >> right that that actually refuted him that actually when we read it in context.
>> Yeah, >> that was wild.
>> Yeah, I actually because I'm probably going to make a response video to it. I found a um I found like a medical journal of all of the diseases that house flies carry >> and and what they pass on. Um and it's it's bad. It's bad. Uh, do do I believe Yeshua is God? Um, I Yes, I believe Jesus is God. Yes. So, uh, anyone who disagrees can come up and uh and we can talk about it.
>> Yeshua.
>> Yes, >> Jeffy. I appreciate it. I enjoy I enjoy making the videos most of the time.
Every once in a while I'm I'm struggling a little bit, but most of the time most of the time I enjoy it for sure.
>> Yeshua bar. There you go.
>> Probably Messianic.
>> Um I'm also thinking co if you have what uh because I think what were the ones that like when we had um Gumbo and all that wasn't it just Jesus is God request if you disagree.
>> Yeah.
Yeah, I want to talk about it tonight. I don't want to talk about anything else. I want to talk about is Jesus God or not.
>> Um, like I like I like I said, like I enjoy pymics. I I enjoy debating Muslims and and saying why I think Islam is wrong, but I also want to >> point out why Christianity is true >> to to Dan. Dan Mlennon Mlennon >> Mlen >> Mlen.
>> Yeah.
>> Shout it out to your boy Dan. That video we did, everybody was tagging him. So, we'll see.
>> He made a response >> to our video.
>> Yeah, >> I didn't see it.
>> Yeah, it's on there. I never watched it.
I I don't care. on YouTube.
>> I don't I don't know.
>> But he made a response.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh I don't know. I'm have to check on Tik Tok.
>> I would love to see him in Wes Huff.
Yeah, >> man. It is It is It's ghostly quiet in here tonight.
>> All right, I'm g check I'll check Tik Tok.
>> What are you looking for?
>> I was trying to find the video. I'll certainly if the video was on um was on his channel, >> I'm going to respond to that for sure, >> man.
>> I can't see the chat. I don't know who you're referring to, though.
Can you see?
>> I I um >> I blocked one person, but spamming.
>> Coley Coley blocking someone is like once every blue moon.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Oh, here we go. Here we go.
I don't see Squiggles 5. That I do not see.
>> Uh, how's it going?
Uh, you're you you joined, but you're you're not in the app. I can't.
>> Hello.
>> Hi.
>> Hello. How are you, man?
>> I'm doing well. How you doing?
>> I'm doing fine.
>> Sweet. Uh, I'm assuming you disagree with the prompt.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Well, that's not you're you're Jewish, right?
>> No, I'm Muslim.
>> Oh, why is your name little Jewish boy?
>> Because >> Oh, >> yes.
>> Specifically, verse 27.
>> What does First Kings have to do with Jesus being God?
>> It shows he's not God.
Uh, what did you say? First Kings what?
>> Chapter 8.
>> So, you're you're going to use a first kings verse.
>> Yes, of course.
>> Has nothing to do with Jesus?
>> It has to do with God. Jesus God, right?
>> Yes.
>> It says that nothing can contain God.
in verse 27.
>> First Kings 8:27.
So this is in regards to the ark of the covenant.
>> Yeah. And it's talking about Solomon building a temple.
>> Yeah.
>> And later on he tells the people that God will dwell in it.
>> And in verse 27 he explains what he means by it. And then he says, "But will God indeed dwell on earth? Not even the heavens or the highest heaven can contain you, let alone this temple I have built for you or built for thee.
>> Okay, >> so the argument is this, right? If you believe Jesus is the same God as the God of Israel or the God of 1 kings 8:27, did he dwell on earth?
>> And was he contained by the >> This is just this is just a an expression to acknowledge the greatness of God, right? Because according to this verse two, even the heavens can't contain him.
>> Exactly.
>> Okay. So what what can what can contain him?
>> Nothing.
>> Nothing. Right. So where is he?
>> He has to exist somewhere.
>> Yeah. He's outside of creation.
>> Okay.
>> He can use So when it says because when you go to verse 13, it says that God will dwell in the temple, right? In a literal sense, >> right?
>> Yeah. But exactly. But the way he does it is meaning that his focus is on the temple and that he hears the prayer.
>> So I'm going to >> So every brother, >> I'm going to I'm going to help you out here. Okay.
>> So uh what God is able to do is manifest his presence.
>> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> So just because >> that's like God being in the temple. It doesn't it doesn't mean that that all of who God is is contained in the temple, but he's able to manifest his presence in the temple.
>> Okay.
>> And when he when he manifests his temp his presence in the temple.
>> Yeah.
>> Is that in a literal sense?
>> There's a there's a yes. There's a sense in which his presence is manifested. He does this throughout the Old Testament, right? We have the burning bush. Uh we have um when Yahweh comes and visits Abraham all all over the place, he he manifests his presence. This is not this is not like something new.
>> And this is the issue with with all due respect. Okay. Uh you're assuming your trinitarian theology on the Old Testament. No.
>> Like saying that God became >> even a Jew even a Jew would acknowledge that God manifests his presence on earth.
>> Yeah. Not. He doesn't believe that God became an angel or a bush or that he was in the bush itself. That's what you believe. So this is why I'm bringing >> Have you read? What are you talking about? Have you? He literally tells Moses, "You're on holy ground cuz he's in the presence of the Lord."
>> Yeah. It's divine agency because nobody has seen God.
>> But this is not the point. This is not the point. I don't know why you bring this up. So >> I'm I'm making because you're taking This is what you guys do. You like to take verses out of context, right?
>> But you do. you.
>> So, so, so answer me this. Does God dwell in the temple or not?
>> No, he doesn't. Not in a literal sense.
It means his focus is there. Okay, one sec. One sec. One second. So, if if you believe he literally dwelt in verse 13, he says that he dwells in the temple.
Then in verse 27, he says that he doesn't dwell because nothing contains it. So, which one is it?
>> Can I ask something real quick? Um, can God can God be separated from his glory?
>> Can God be separated from his glory?
No.
>> All right. So, in verse 10, um I'm sorry, in verse 11, does his glory fill the house?
>> The glory fill the house. Yes. Yes.
>> Does it mean the glory separated?
>> Wait, hold on a second. Hold on a second. Let me get to my question. So, if he can't be separated from his glory, that means in verse 11, he was in the house, right?
>> He's in the house.
If he can't be separated from his glory as he said and verse 11 says that his glory filled the house that mean that God's presence was in the house correct because he cannot be separated from his glory. Correct?
>> No. No. It just means his focus is there.
>> It doesn't mean that I I I explained >> based off based off what?
>> Based on the bas I I got you. I got you.
Based on >> No, no. Based on verse 13. Can you read verse 13?
>> I have indeed you and exalted your house, a place for you to dwell in forever.
>> Okay. For Okay. A place for you to dwell in. Okay. Now, go to verse 27 because you both say that it's in a literal sense.
>> I've already I've already showed you this.
>> Okay. One sec. One sec. One sec. In verse 27, it says that uh will God indeed dwell on earth. Behold, the heavens and the highest heaven cannot contain you. How much less is house that I have built? So in verse 13 he affirms his um dwelling right and in verse 27 he denies it. So if you want to both take it literally then you have a contradiction.
>> There's no can you highlight verse 28 please.
>> So it says uh so it says yet have regard to the prayer of your servant in this plea oh lord my god listening to the cry and prayer of your servant uh praise before you this day. And then when you go to uh first kings chapter nine verses uh verses 2 and three you see that the lord appears to solon and he says I have heard your prayer and confirms that he will answer Solomon's prayer. So is God lying when he says that I will affirm your prayer for for you to build a temple uh for my presence?
>> No because he doesn't literally come to him. His focus is on that place like I explained.
>> Yeah. You're just asserting that it's it's No, no, no. It's >> I I got you. It's implied because if you want to take everything literally, then you have a contradiction in verse 13 and >> you you don't because God can manifest his presence on earth. You're So you're applying in Islamic theology that doesn't exist in the Bible.
>> I'm not The Jews believe this, too.
>> So you're telling me the Jews don't think that God can manifest his presence on earth?
>> Yeah. The Jews don't believe that God will dwell in a temple or on earth.
Yeah, they don't believe this.
>> Then why is Solomon building a temple for him to dwell there?
>> For a god to show his focus on that place. That's what it means to dwell.
>> You are literally I need I need some sort of of substantiation of that claim.
I need something.
>> You want scholarship?
>> You're just you're just asserting that >> you want scholarship. So >> that you have scholarship that says that it's just his from rabbis. From rabbis >> of rabbitic Judaism.
>> Yeah, of course. Because this is their text. I'm not going to I'm not going to grant your position. But look, just listen to Rabbitic Jews have totally rejected the their own book.
>> Rabbitic Jews stuff all the time >> and you do as well.
>> I'm not making this up. It's literally a main theme of the Old Have you read the Old Testament? Just curious.
>> No, not entirely. No.
>> Okay.
>> Obviously not. It's a big book.
Literally I like I was actually telling another guy like this is a main theme of the Bible and the people of God that God's presence would dwell with them.
That's why the temple is so important to them.
>> And yes, and so I don't know if you know this. So, in the tabernacle when they when they built the ark of the covenant where it stayed in the holiest of holies, they literally would tie uh a string around the great high priest's ankle because he would go in it once a year in in and be in the presence of God there. And if he didn't do the ritual, right, he would die.
Like the holiest of holies represents the presence of God on earth.
>> Okay. So, okay. Can I You're rejecting a literal biblical theme here.
>> I am not. Look, look, look, let me just ask you, please. I listen to you. Thank you so much.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you for keeping this respectful.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> Actually, thank you for that one. Um, so let me ask you this. Okay.
If I said that the god literally dwelt in the temple, would that be a false statement?
>> That'd be a true statement. Yeah.
Okay.
>> He's manifesting his presence there.
>> And if I if I later said that God will not dwell on earth because nothing can contain him, let alone this temple. Is that also a true statement?
>> Yes.
>> Not a contradiction, bro.
>> It is not. It is not. Okay. Wait. So, so when God was in the temple, was he contained by it?
>> He was. No. That's he conveiled his glory to enter a place. That's the whole point. opposed to saying that God himself so that he can enter his creation and how can he how can he go ahead >> I was going to say let's let's agree on this God is God is omniresent right he's he's like his presence is everywhere at all times >> not literally no >> right but in in some sense his presence is everywhere >> in Christianity yes in Christianity >> y'all reject omnipresence >> in a literal sense me? Are you asking?
>> Wait, do you you do you believe that um that God is is located somewhere in the universe?
>> Are you asking me?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh, sorry. Sorry. It was just the other guy. Uh no, like from a Muslim perspective or like Jewish?
>> Yeah. Where where do you think he is right now?
>> He's all the way above outside of creation.
>> Okay. Right. But in some sense, he is also everywhere all at once. Right.
in his knowledge only, but not literally.
>> Oh, >> I know. I know this. Wait, wait.
>> That's That's a rough That's a rough That's just I mean, no comment. That's just a rough theology.
>> Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Is is like I'm not trying to be disrespectful. No, but >> is is God in the toilet or is he in my pocket?
>> God is everywhere in he's omniresent.
>> So, he's in my pocket. Not not in a literal sense.
>> So he's not literally everywhere, right?
>> Yes. Now, so now we're establishing something though. God is able to manifest his presence.
>> Okay.
>> In his place.
>> Okay.
>> So I'm I'll show I'm showing you one example. So what's what's really interesting in John 1:14 it says that the word became flesh and it literally this word is to tabernacle among us.
Right? So this this idea of in Christ God's presence is dwelling among us and his name is Emmanuel God with us. And if you continue on, that's that's what we see in the text, right? So verse 15, John bore witness about him and cried, "This was a few whom I said, he comes after me. For in for him is fullness we have all received. Grace upon grace, for the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God." That's referring to the father. God the only son who is at the father's side. He has made him known. So we get a clear text here of God dwelling with us.
>> Yeah, I agree. And this is why you don't believe in the same God as 1 Kings 8:27 because 1 Kings 8:27 is rejecting God's willing. It's rejecting it.
>> It's It's not. You already saw I already you already said earlier God cannot be separated from his glory. Can Let me ask you this. Can God physically be separated from his glory?
physically be separated from his glory that he will put away the attribute of glory.
>> No. Meaning if his glory is in a place, can he can God physically be separated from his glory?
>> Can you be physically separated from his glory?
>> Uh basically, yeah, he can because he can put glory on a place without him entering.
>> God is separating.
>> How is this? How is this problematic?
But I didn't come to my point. I didn't come to my point. Can Can God be separated from his attributes?
>> Can God be separated from his attributes? No. Because they part of it.
>> Is glory is glory a part of God's attributes? Is God have glory?
>> He has glory. Yeah. But it's not the same glory that's being put on the temple. So >> it would be an attribute of God, right?
>> Not always. No.
>> There is different glories.
>> Oh my.
Well, I mean, I can I can give you an example from the New Testament if you want to.
>> No, I'm just saying I'm just saying here in first Kings versus 11, it clearly states that the priest couldn't even do minister because the glory of the Lord filled the house. God cannot be separated from his glory. So, if his glory is in the house, that means God's presence is in the house. It's not a metaphorical sense. It's not the mind.
It's not any type of way. If his glory is in a is is in an area, God's presence is in that area as well, right? Which is why sacrifices could be made in the first place. Sacrifices can be made because God is there to accept it. All throughout the testament, God has appeared. So for you to say it's not actually God appearing, you're just not being honest with the text. because many times God appears and saints and Old Testament um you know uh prophets are able to recognize that God's in front of Thank you. Thank you. So this is the issue right? If you want to take it literally which I understand is your position then verse 27 contradicts it because it gives a hypothetical why God cannot dwell literally because nothing can contain him not even the heavens let alone this temple. And you're telling me now God was God God was contained by that same temple he's rejected. So >> yet we see yet we see God being in heaven. Yet we see God having a throne in heaven. Yet we see God being surrounded by uh the divine counsel all throughout the Old Testament. There is no contradiction. It's just highlighting God's majesty. God can veil himself to enter creation. That's the point. God is all powerful. He can veil his glory to enter creation if he needs to.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's the thing that that's your belief and then you point in this one.
But well well you're you're taking the Bible, right? You're trying to point out a passage in the Bible and say this is why Jesus came, >> right? Well, what I'm what I'm saying is that this is a consistent theme in the Old Testament of God manifesting his presence. And so while the earth in one sense doesn't contain him, it doesn't mean he's not able to manifest his presence to his people, which he does consistently throughout the Old Testament.
>> Okay? So when Solomon says that nothing can contain God, well actually he can be contained if he wanted to. Is that what you're telling me?
>> God can contain his glory to enter creation because he's all powerful.
>> Okay.
>> Notice how in verse 28 he says, "Yet yet my prayer." In verse 28, he says, "Yet regard to the prayer of your servant and to his plea." Oh Lord my God, listening to uh the cry and to the prayer praise before you this day. And then the next chapter, God says, I have urged you and I will answer you. So even though even though Solomon makes this statement in verse 27, he says yes. Yeah. Verse then look at Yeah. As soon as Solomon had finished building the house of the Lord, the kings of the house uh and the king's house wait um the Lord, sorry. Okay, let me read, let me start this one. And as soon as Solomon had finished the building of uh finished building the house of the Lord and the king's house and all that Solomon desired to build, the Lord appeared to Solomon a second time as he had appeared to him at Gib. And the Lord said to him, I have heard your prayer and your plea which you have made before me. I have consecrated this house that you have built by putting my name there forever. My eyes and my heart will be there for all time.
So wherever >> Amen.
>> Right. So so wherever wherever God's name is that represents his presence that represents his authority. So despite everything that Solomon said in chapter 8, God says in the next chapter, I have heard your prayer. Solomon's prayer is for God's presence to be in the temple. That's why he makes the statement in the first place.
>> Okay, great. Great. It says that God appeared to him, right?
>> Yes. In verse three, >> was it in a literal sense that God literally appeared to him?
>> Yeah, he he appeared in a way that Solomon would be able to recognize him.
>> Okay. So why would he at the same time >> if he appeared to him literally why would he later deny his m majesty and him being contained?
>> Does that make any sense to you?
>> He's not. What do you mean?
>> In verse 27, he denies that God that God can be contained and you're telling me that God literally presented himself to him.
>> That doesn't make any sense.
>> You want to take it literally? I'm just deliberately not uh tracking with what I'm saying at this point.
>> I am tracking what you're saying, but it contradicts what the Jews believe and what the text says.
>> It's not. You look at the text in context.
>> This is Look, look, this is all over the Old Testament.
>> Solomon makes the statement and literally right after making the statement, he says, "Yet hear your servants." So despite him making that claim, Solomon is able to recognize that God can contain his glory so that he can be in the presence of the temple.
Clearly because we're forcing our theology in the text, we're trying to force a contradiction that's not there that God can bail his glory.
>> It's not my theology. It's the theology of the text and of the Jews. And you are the one that's presenting a contradiction, not me. I'm helping. I'm helping the text.
>> I'm helping the text.
>> You're not helping the text.
>> Yes, I am. Because we're we're we're clearly we're clearly at odds. We clearly have different interpretations and so uh it's a good conversation. I'm going to I'm going to let you go, man.
>> Okay. Can I say one thing?
>> Uh thank you for bringing me on.
>> Awesome.
>> I wish you a nice day.
>> You too, man. Abigail, >> thank you. Yes.
So, uh, nice guy. It It's just I think and this is kind of the thing that just gets me a lot. And it's just like an unwillingness to like >> just properly execute the the text. And um I don't know, you you just have to reject this gigantic theme of the Bible um that God's presence doesn't dwell with his people. I don't That's just crazy. Um, and so, um, so, um, we'll bring this guy up.
>> Walter, how's it going?
>> Good. How you doing?
>> Uh, doing well.
>> Well, that's an echo.
>> Um, >> all right. You got it. What does it all come back to? John 11 one.
>> What's that?
What's your are you >> you don't believe that Jesus is God?
>> No, absolutely not.
>> Okay. What's What's your background?
>> What do you mean background?
>> I got baptized last September.
>> Into what?
>> Into Christ.
>> Into what? Yeah. But >> body of Christ.
>> Yeah. Are you like Jehovah's Witness?
Are you like a utarian? like it.
>> Um, biblical monotheist.
>> Biblical mono. I like that one.
>> Undenominated.
>> Okay. You want to look at John 1? You don't think Jesus is God?
>> Right. That's where it all comes back to. John 1:1, especially John 1:1C.
>> Okay. The word was God.
>> Right. So, you have two gods.
>> No.
How was God with God then?
>> Well, you have the person of the father with the person of the son. That's why Jesus says sent down.
>> Where is the son mentioned in John 1:1?
>> Uh so we just we just read in context.
>> Okay. Read in context. Read John one.
>> So we have the word who is God. Right.
>> Right. And the word was with God. So you have two gods, right? One with the other. We go down. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us as we have seen.
>> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Slow down.
Slow down. Slow down. You're going too fast.
>> We're going too fast. You don't know the verse. This is This is >> going too quickly. No, you're going became flesh. What does that mean?
>> Among us.
>> No, wait, wait, wait, wait.
>> Walter, you asked where do we see the sun? Go to verse 18.
>> No, I said where? No, I said where do you see the sun in John 1:1? Well, we know because of the context of John 1 that the son is the word.
>> And if you go to verse 18, >> how do you know that?
>> We got verse 18. Walter, pull it up.
>> You see, you're jumping. You're running all the way to another verse already.
>> We're in the same chapter.
>> Don't be so quick to Don't be so quick to run.
>> Listen, follow the text, man. Follow >> what we're doing. We're in the same chapter.
>> Follow the text. Slow down. Slow down.
You're jumping around.
>> We're not jumping anywhere. It's in the same chapter. Where do we see >> Because it's in It's in the same It's in the same Bible, too. Does that mean we can just go to Genesis?
>> In the same chapter. Are you Are you okay?
>> Are you okay? Don't be silly.
>> Don't play games like that. Don't play admin games.
>> In the beginning was the word. Okay.
>> In the beginning was the word.
>> Yeah.
>> What is the word?
>> In the word was with God. The word was God.
>> What is the word? In the beginning was the word. What is the word?
>> The word became flesh.
>> You're jumping. You're running. You're running. Don't run.
>> Don't run.
>> We're at John 1A.
>> We're in John 11A.
>> Okay.
>> In the beginning was the word. What is the word?
>> The word is God.
>> Let's let's let's run it back.
>> John 11A. What is the word?
>> What does in the beginning mean?
>> That's a good question.
>> At the start of I don't know. What do you mean?
So, is this in the beginning? What's this?
>> You guys You guys don't care about truth, do you? Just want to be right.
>> Let's have a discussion. Serious discussion. Keep running.
>> We're in the We're in the same passage.
So, listen. You're asking, right? You're asking the question, who is the word?
Right.
>> No, I did not say who.
>> No. There's no who.
>> He said, what is the word? And if you look at John, it tells you >> in the beginning was the word. Now up to this point, what do we know is the word up to this point? Not past it.
>> All we see is that >> up to this point.
>> Up to this point, we don't know. We don't know who the word is.
>> Not who. Not who.
>> All >> where did you get who?
>> I muted Cody. Can you or is he just >> Where did you get who?
>> I think he's just ignoring you.
>> So So W >> because we already know that the word is who based off of >> You're reading ahead. You're reading ahead. That's That's okay.
>> That's okay. So So So let me get this straight. Let me get this straight.
>> Do you just want to be right?
>> He he changes from from a what to a who.
>> Let's look at the text.
>> He he changes from a what to a who.
Right.
>> No, no, no. That's later. That's later, bro.
>> So So according to what we see, in the beginning was the word. All we see >> What is the word?
>> What is the word?
>> You can't know based off the first five words. We can know from the rest of the Bible up to this point, can't we?
>> Wait, but you're sticking to John one though, right? Because when we other >> vers you can't use another verse.
>> No, no, I'm sticking to everything we know up to this point.
>> Please engage. Okay.
>> Up to this point.
>> Up to this point, you realize you realize that all of all of Paul's letters about who Jesus is is written before John, >> dude.
Uh >> oh. You you re you realize that, right?
So if you're talking about the Bible up to the point of John, most of the books of the Bible, including the >> We're not talking about when it was written, >> and when it was written doesn't doesn't matter to the chronology of when things happened.
>> When we go to other verses in the same chapter, >> no, up to this point. Up to this point, in the beginning was the word. What was the word >> in scripture?
>> It was it was the word of God, right?
up to John John 1:1A that slick part.
And so allowed to go to other verses to prove his point. We >> it was the word of God, right?
>> No, you actually can't go. You can't know that just reading that from from Genesis.
>> Reading one a >> from the book of Genesis. You can't >> No, no, we're not looking at other We're not looking at other Bible verses up to this point. The word is God according to the Bible because you you mentioned everything before one, right?
Yep.
>> You see you see the word of the Lord is God in the Old Testament. So the word is God.
>> The word is the word of God >> which is God. The word is >> how do you know that God?
>> How do you know the word is God up to the word >> identified as God in the Old Testament?
When the word of the Lord speaks, it's identified as God.
>> It is God's word. Is that correct?
>> Identified as God.
>> So okay. So it is the father, right? The father is God. So is >> the word is the father. Right >> now you're asking I'm asking that from John one.
>> I'm asking no from I'm getting it from the scriptures up to this point in time.
Not this not to this point in writing up to this point in time.
What >> he's saying from Genesis >> you [ __ ] dude. Pay attention. John 18.
>> Don't ever don't ever come back to my live stream.
Don't ever come back my last year.
Oh my gosh. Just >> I've just Hey, I was I was down to uh to to entertain him for a while, but uh but man, just wasting my time. Waste of my time. real quick. Can you can you pull up Jeremiah chapter one?
>> Sure. Then we'll bring up the next guest.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Real quick, just so the audience can see. Uh and then go to verse four to five.
>> Now the word of the Lord >> came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. And before you were born, I consecrated you and I appointed you a prophet to the nations."
We see that the word is a person. Wait a second. The word created Jeremiah.
Huh?
Amen. Amen, Walter. Or amen from Phil to Walter.
Go to church. Get some guidance.
Wasn't good, man. Wasn't good.
All right. What time is it? Do you still Okay, I'm gonna take one more and then I'mma hop off, but I'm kind Whatever.
May maybe I don't want I won't commit to that. We'll we'll bring up >> You got to say it. Yeah. Yeah. One more.
This the last one. We're going to be on for 10 minutes. Yeah.
>> Uh Anoir, how's it going?
>> Yo, hello.
>> Hi. Uh do you think that Jesus is God or No?
>> No.
>> Okay. What What's your um what's your like background? Are you Muslim? Are you unarian? Are you What?
What's >> I'm Muslim? Okay, cool. So, why don't you think Jesus is God?
>> Well, you guys believe that he was uh 100% human and uh 100% God, right?
>> Uh we don't actually use that terminology. We say he's truly God and truly man. You don't you don't you natures aren't measured in percentages.
>> So, you said he's 100% man, right?
>> I'll try that again. He's truly man.
>> Yeah. But he's a man, right?
>> Yes.
>> So is man dependent or >> Yes.
>> And God is independent, right?
>> Correct.
>> Can you be dependent and independent at the same time?
>> Not in the same nature.
>> But he has two distinct natures.
He has two distinct natures.
>> Yes, that's the whole point, right?
That's the hypoatic union that he is fully God and fully man. So his human nature can be dependent while his divine nature can be independent. They don't they don't mix. They're not they're not intertwined.
>> Can you can you bring me up after? My brother's like >> sure in the chat. Okay.
>> All right.
Justin, how's it going?
>> How are you?
>> Good. What's your Do you agree with the prompt or you disagree?
>> Well, so the what do you mean by God, I guess, is a first question to ask?
Because the word God means placer, right?
>> Placer. Theoser, >> right? I mean, if I were to translate it, it would be properly translated as placer. It gets at the idea the same thing as Elohim, right? Or Eloha or L is a subjector. It's a very similar idea.
>> Jesus, >> I'll just give you my definition. Jesus is the most high God, >> right? So, the I guess you know the the question you'd have to ask is like by that are are you a trinitarian you're saying?
>> Yes.
So the problem that really comes up is, you know, pe people are kind of just playing word games. And >> Sure.
>> And it's dangerous because if you're if you're playing word games, you can come up with saying, "I believe I I am believing God. I am believing XYZ."
But they don't actually end up believing. They end up believing something else. because that's, you know, that's very similar to the idea of why Paul said to stay to a pattern of sound words uh lest, you know, we go off and drift into uh arguments and things that don't have anything to do with the scripture or to add and subtract.
And I would suggest that when you're act I mean that most Bible translations don't really translate hardly anything accurately, but >> that's crazy.
>> It sounds crazy. Yeah, I would have thought the same, but >> let me let me ask you this. What is your position? Do you think Jesus is God? Do you think he's the most high God?
>> See, again, like it's it's kind of a hard thing to explain because in the ultimate sense, you know, in the very true sense, Jesus is firstborn of all creation. He is the beginning of the creation of God.
>> That is to say, he he pre-existed, but it he's created >> Jesus. That that is a title. That is not a a a description of creation, >> right? But but >> David is called is called the firstborn as well um in the Old Testament, but he's >> Yeah, I understand. But it's still he's still creation's firstborn. And that the >> Jesus is is not created, right? So you're you're quoting >> but he's a son. Like someone who's a son is, and this is kind of what I'm getting at, the danger is that you can't believe Jesus is the son of God and believe that he didn't come out of God as a created being.
>> You can't believe Jesus is the Christ and not one teaches.
>> So, so if we read Colossians 1 says he's the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Right? This is a this this is a title. David, like I said, in the Old Testament is called the firstborn when he's Jesse's youngest son, but he's the firstborn to God because this is a title of possession, right? And it says, uh, check this out.
This is how we know that he was uncreated.
>> No, but see, this is already a mistransation. You have, you have, as if it was the word e.
>> This it says for we got we got to read verse 16, though. We got to be consistent.
>> It says, "For by him, by Jesus, all things were created.
Right. Through him.
>> So So what what was created by Jesus?
>> No, it doesn't say by. That's that would be the idea of e or out of all things were create all I wouldn't add the word things out of the blue. All was created through him and for him. Uh that is correct. But okay, nevertheless, >> even even okay, even if we go with that, if all things were created through Jesus, >> was Jesus created?
>> See, that's that's kind of like I understand what you're saying, but the the >> right because he can't be created if all things were created through him.
>> Right. But the kind of the problem that comes up is that you like it's very similar to what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 where he says that even as in Adam all dying those also in Christ shall all be vivified yet each in his own class. And he says how you know Christ is the first fruit of vivification to the to all. But of course he after he he explains when when all will be vivified which is a time subsequent to Revelation 22 you know the whole forever thing is a mistransation but but the point he gives is that well when he says all will be subjected to Christ well he says well it well it's evident that he's not subjecting the father it's it's evident that whenever we say that all is subjected to him it ought to be evident that all not the father won't be which would be consistent with trinitarian theology. That would be consistent with trinitarian theology >> because they're the same uh ontological being.
>> Uh no, because he's he's saying that all the all is subjected to Christ and then Christ once Christ has subjected the universe at that time Christ no longer reigns. He no longer he get he hands the kingdom over to his God and father. He gives it up. In fact, he all of the saints give it up that God may be all in all. That Christ would be on the same level as anyone at that that's his greatest glory.
>> And that's my concern is that we're actually stealing Christ's greatest glory. That the faith of Christ, Jesus Christ's faith for all and on all those who are believing where there is no distinction. Because Christ had to have faith that his father would rouse him out from among the dead ones.
>> He did not raise himself. He he might have roused his body, but he he did not rise the person or the father.
>> So um in just real quick, I want to hit on the resurrection, but just real since we're in Colossians, >> can you >> Yeah, you can bring that. Can you be both created and uncreated at the same time?
Uh, what does that mean? Do you mean like you're created being and not a created being? No.
>> Yeah. So, so it's either one or the other, right? Because that would be a contradiction, right?
>> Right.
>> Right. So, and in the Greek for verse 16, by is actually the Greek word in.
So, in the Greek it would read in him.
>> Oh, you're you're right. It's through him in the in the uh probably in a verse later or something.
>> Yeah. But in 16 specifically where it says for by him the Greek word would be in. So in Jesus were all things created.
So if Jesus if everything was created in Jesus can Jesus himself be created.
>> U well yes it in that case that would be so but there is better examples you could give like for example John one to be fair. But you know the the the point to be created in him is just like to say that it's you know if you read on here it says he's the image of the visible God the firstborn of all creation for in him is all created that in the heavens that on the earth the visible and invisible whether thrones or dominions or sovereignties or authorities all is created through him and for him and he is the and I'm you know quoting it from more accurately through him and for him and he is before all and all things have cohesion or something like held together through him, >> right? And then when you go >> and he is the head of the body, the out called he is the beginning um or the original you might say I think it's are he the firstborn out from among the dead that in all he may be becoming first for in him so for in him the compliment it's not really fullness but that which fills a filling for in him the filling of God was sorry not that I don't think that of God There I think that's added for in him the entire filling was pleased to dwell and through him to reconcile all to him whether and then there's a variant I guess through the blood of the cross whether those on the earth or those in the oh sorry they put it at the end of the verse here in this >> fullness fullness is in the Greek so so yeah in >> I meant uh it's technically the idea of compliment like a pleuroma like it the filling >> something which fills >> and And in John one is actually worse because John 1:3 says without Jesus nothing was created. So if without Jesus nothing was created, Jesus would have to be outside of creation. If creation depends on uh >> well not necessarily because the the like if you really look at John one uh can you zoom it in? It's Oh, sorry. No.
Okay. Uh, in the beginning was the word and the word was toward God and the God was and the you know this the whole second part of this phrase is kind of sloppily translated about everywhere. It it it's more like God I'd probably put it the something like God comma the word was or something.
They're both nominative. So >> it reads God was the word. That's how it reads literally from the Greek, >> right? The problem is that the word is nominative. So I would probably put it something like God, the word.
>> Well, you wouldn't. But >> you wouldn't because in the at the end God the last part of God in in in verse one is qualitative. So it's talking about the nature of the word.
>> So it's just saying that >> Yeah. Yeah. I know. But it's it's not but what I'm saying is that if it if the verb is acting upon if the verb is active, I think if I remember correctly.
So if the verb is acting upon word, it would be more I mean it's kind of gets at the same idea but the problem is that would be like putting it as if it was accusative if you said God was the word but it it's you know I would say god comma the word comma was but it's the same idea.
>> Can we go to verse three?
>> Yeah. All who was made through him and without him was without the same or him.
You know, it's there's always a debate of whether it we translate him the word as a himymn before because of course offtoe is just that the the word same but all was made through him and that without uh sorry without him not anything that was made was made.
>> Yeah. So according to that verse right >> it says but him was not anything made that was made. So Jesus was made that means he created himself.
>> Well is that the word like made like po or is that created first of all because we don't want to get confuse the ideas of >> it says all things uh all things through him came into being without him came into being. Not one thing that came into being. So it's gaganin gan.
>> Oh okay. So became something like that or generated. Yeah I understand.
>> All was created through him without >> generated uh through Christ and without Christ was nothing generated that was generated. So if all things were generated and Jesus generated that means Jesus generated himself >> according to John 13.
No, because everything is created through him. That's the difference. It's not out of him. And of course, it may come out of him throughout the side, but that the father there >> Jesus said that the only true God is the father. And why should I not believe him?
>> Why why would we why wouldn't we believe the father? Because the father said that Jesus is God and Jesus is the lord that laid the foundations of heaven and earth. So why wouldn't we trust the father?
Right. That's what I'm saying is that he's the only true God. It's not it's not I'm not trying to diminish >> Justin. The father said Jesus is God and Jesus is the Lord that laid the foundations of heaven and earth. So why wouldn't we go with the father?
Well, it's kind of like how the, you know, for for one, I mean, where what do you mean the father said Jesus is God if you're >> so just as Jesus, >> right? But I mean, it doesn't say that >> says that Jesus is God in the same way.
>> Well, what it says is the it's kind of the same grammatical structure as here is in verse one is it says that the throne is is God.
>> I mean, if you if you look it's there's no provocative oh god there. In fact, that verse says his God.
>> I I want to show you a verse that Jesus is is definitively God. I want to look at it. Give your thoughts and then I'm going to hop off.
>> Can you Can you give me one more second to give me a thought? When I think Hebrews 18, if you look at it for, you know, if you actually were to translate it as it says, it says >> his throne is >> his throne is being God.
>> No, it's not. And and it you can pull it up on the Greek text and you'll see it.
Any Greek text will say that my screen >> there's no vocative of of the matter.
But it says read it. It says unto however the son, the throne of you, oh God, is to the >> No, that's what I'm saying is of righteousness is the scepter of the kingdom of you. So in the Greek it says the throne of you, oh God. That's clearly talking to someone. It's not saying the throne is God. It's saying the throne of you, oh God, is to the to the age.
>> So the show, right? So like the throne and that the sun is God. And then it gets even worse because if you go to verse 10, and this is from the Greek, and you in the beginning, Lord of the earth laid the foundations and the work of the hands of you are the heavens.
That's how it reads in the Greek in verse 10. So the father says that Jesus has a throne and Jesus is God and Jesus is the lord that laid the foundations of heaven and earth.
>> Right? But the you you com you made the the the um nominative which corresponds in the same way it does here for example in John 1:1 to to the word throne that his throne is is a placer a it is God.
>> His throne is God. It it is what it says and it doesn't it's it was doesn't it's no vocative on God. It says his throne is God. The idea is that his >> Yeah. Can Can I finish? Yeah. But can I at least finish? So because what I think it's telling you is that for the eon of the eon or the age of the age not endlessly because he gives up the kingdom is it clearly states in 1 Corinthians 15 and that he reigns for the ages the eons unto the e in Hebrew you know Daniel it says that he ra he reigns for the olum even unto the ol of the ol of course the ol would be the millennial kingdom even unto the ol of the ol isn't Revelation 21:22 until he gives it up one day.
>> No, he misses it though because 2 Samuel says the king uh will reign forever. So that would break 2 Samuel, >> right? But that's not Again, it's a mistransation. That's the problemation.
Everything we've shown to you is a mistransation. You should we should have the the >> Well, I mean, if you pull it up, you can see that that's what it says. It's it's not a matter of what I what I think.
It's I'm trying to be honest.
I'm gonna show you I'm gonna show you a verse in the New Testament where Jesus is clearly God.
>> He He is He is the God of the Israelites.
>> He's going to say it's a textual variant.
>> There's Well, we'll get to that. Um so Paul is telling the church in first Corinth in Corinthians, right? This first Corinthians, this is 10 uh chapter 7. He says, "Do not be idoltors as some of them were." referring to the Old Testament Israelites. As it was written, the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play. He says, "We must not indulge in the mess immorality as some of them did and 23,000 fell in a single day." It says this, "We must not put Christ to the test as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents," which is a direct reference to Yahweh destroying the Israelites who who were idolatrous in the Old Testament. But Paul here is recognizing that it's Jesus, the one who did it, >> right? I agree.
>> So, so Jesus God in Numbers 21 that the Israelites sinned against.
Well, Jesus is the image of the invisible God. So to call him God is hardly hardly a a wrongdoing. He was worshiped. He was he's he's God's image.
And but an image is not the actual thing for the for God is invisible.
>> The elements of image is like an if the idea that you you are qualified >> to be you know speaking for God. Of course he is God in that sense.
>> Let me let me ask you this. Can the image of an eternal being be created?
>> Well, I I there there's nothing about even God being eternal in the scriptures. It says he's to relate to the ages. It says that his days will have no end.
>> Voice to God being eternal. Can we go to Psalms, please?
>> Yeah. I'm speaking of it's it says in Psalms that his days will have no end, but it never says eternal.
>> What does it have an end? What does it mean for God? And it says it says, >> "No, no, but I'm saying the idea of like eternal in the sense that you know >> this kind of idea that it goes both ways."
>> What I think is I'm going to stick to what the scriptures say. The scriptures say his days have no end.
>> You don't think that God is eternal?
That he had a beginning.
>> I don't think God had a beginning. I don't know what but the idea the idea that >> can a being who had no beginning >> can a being who had no beginning have a created image >> yes it's it's the image of the invisible god >> well it's an image >> that was all I needed man >> well think about it though >> think about your image right your image exists with you so it's >> but the image was created if I took a picture of myself the image was created created at a certain point.
Nevertheless, it doesn't it doesn't mean it was created at the same point I was born.
>> Is that the type of image that it's being referred to as a picture?
>> The the the idea of an image, you know, it is just that it's an image that it doesn't mean that it has to it. Of course, it's more in depth than that because there's what I'm suggesting to you that is that is that there's more to God than just calling him eternal. The the word God placer.
>> This is trying to get at God's godness.
It's it's a title to say that he operates all according to the council of his will.
>> What What do you want to look at, Rich?
>> Can you go to Psalms 93, please? Psalms 93 uh 2 everlasting means forever, right?
>> See, I don't think the the word everlasting in the sense of, you know, I understand it's translated all over the place. But the problem the problem with the word everlasting is it's it's mis it's absolutely misleading. Like you're going to find this this like olum translated as everlasting yet how many things are called everlasting that are not even so. Go put every occurrence of ol of ol in the in a a sheet and you'll find this word does not mean everlasting.
>> Justin we're talking specifically about God. Is God from everlasting according to Psalms 93:2?
>> Psalm 93. Um, is that the one that says he's from Olm to Olm? I I don't know what I don't just blindly trust the translation for >> on the screen. It's on the screen.
>> Uh, on the screen it says your throne is from old, you are from everlasting, >> right? So, uh, everlasting when it says you are from everlasting, everlasting is forever, right?
>> Yeah. But see, this is not this is not what it says. That's what the problem that that >> it says that in English but even everlasting it has its strangeness because the the problem with the word ever even in English is very problematic >> because when we think of ever we think of eternity.
>> Okay. Can I show you in the Hebrew where ola means eternity?
Well, the problem is actually it has it has a single meaning for every occurrence. And that's the idea of what it is.
>> Word. If the literal Hebrew word means everlasting or eternity and it says according to Psalms 93 that you are from everlasting, that would mean that God is from eternity. It's literally saying that God is eternal. Like literally, >> right? Just as eternal as the old covenant was. Because even the word eternal, >> we're talking about I understand your point that there sometimes forever can refer to a covenant period, can refer to certain times. I understand that we're talking about God, right? David is saying that God is from everlasting to everlasting. So he's literally saying that God is eternal. Then Isaiah 40, if you look at Isaiah, all throughout Isaiah 40, 44, 45, I am the first, I am the last. I am the beginning, I am the end. That's eternality.
No, because the the issue is not to say I'm not saying God is not from everlasting. But what I am saying is this verse doesn't reveal that and I'm not going to say he's from everlasting unless if I have revealed text on the matter because I'm not about going above what is written.
>> Are you going to reject the Hebrew?
>> Oh, I am not. But what I'm telling you, I can look at it right here and it's it's using the word olum. This is >> right. Does Ola mean eternity?
>> Absolutely not. And you'll find See, without without laughing, get give me like >> Can you pull up Bible Hub and this and then I I swear I'm done.
>> No, no, but I understand you're going to find it on on a lexicon.
>> Can I suggest something because I think it would be valuable.
>> Let me let me let me finish my my point.
>> Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, go to uh Psalms 93.
versus two.
If you uh click on the Here we go.
Where's the interlinear? Uh go up and then click on uh up more. Up more interlinear. Yeah. Next to comment.
Yeah. Click on that. Perfect.
And it shows you the outline of it.
Okay. So, it says you are from everlasting and then you see 5769. Click on that.
And then you might have to zoom in just I don't want anybody to miss this. And if you go to the very top, what word do you see there?
>> It's >> under under the under the lexical summary. What what uh definitions you see?
>> Well, I understand.
>> Yeah. Wait, wait a second.
>> This is this is kind of what I'm getting at though.
>> Wait, wait. No, no, hold on, please, Justin. So, ola means eternity according to this lexical summary. Correct.
>> According to this lexical summary, absolutely.
>> Okay. So, David uses the Hebrew word olum which means eternity and he says God is from eternity. So, if God is from eternity, that means God is eternal, right?
>> If God is from eternal, it means at the very least that he's eternal backwards.
>> Oh, sure. No, I'm trying I'm trying to but I'm No, I'm just trying to go by what you said. I'm trying to be particular. But >> look, the the the issue kind of what led me to my conclusions about basically everything is, you know, when you find these things, you know, people talk about these things, right? and they they go to a lexicon and they point out a definition and they do this and they the problem is actually just that is that we're not actually looking at what the scriptures say about a word. And so my what I think would be most valuable to anyone is to look at what definitions are clearly not scriptural. And you'll find with a lot of, you know, first of all, a definition is not a usage, right?
There's connotations and there's then there's denotations.
>> You want to see the usage? No problem. I can show you. It gives you the usage.
>> No, no, that's not what I was saying.
What I'm saying?
>> No, no. I Well, I don't know what you were going to get at, but what what I'm I'm just trying to help think about something.
>> Well, listen, I'm I'm shutting it down.
I'm shutting it down.
>> One more thing. Let me say one more thing. It's a good conversation.
>> If we just look, >> you get one sentence.
>> Yeah, get I'll get one sentence. Got it.
So my thing is just look at what the scripture says about a word before the lexicon because if you don't verify what you know there might be some some words that have an on-point definition but if you check every occurrence for for the words that really matter you're going to find that a lot of things we're being told are not on point with what it with pure words. I believe God's words are pure and that pure separates it from our language that will be sloppy and >> all over the place.
>> All right. Sorry.
>> I appreciate it, Justin. I appreciate you coming on here and chatting with us.
>> Thanks so much.
>> Yeah, you have a good night.
>> You too.
>> Peace.
>> Peace.
>> God. Oh, man. What a battle.
>> What a battle.
>> Goes from Jesus is not God to God is not eternal.
Yeah, that that was that was >> You have the time stamps. I'm gonna need that for sure. I need that.
>> Yeah, they're about like one probably like 150ish.
>> Yeah, whenever you Yeah, whenever you get that ready. I need that, please.
>> About one. That That was a >> That's going on the richest take.
>> That was a fun one. I I I think uh >> I don't know. That was weird. He just like he just conceded uh >> First Corinthians. He I'm telling you, go there's no argument against it.
There's no >> I was like I was like what? Like no, this is identifying him. Yeah.
>> As as the one.
>> There's not an argu the the best I've heard is that uh this is not really a good argument, but uh Moses is a Christ in that time period. And so because they sinned against Moses, um uh you know, when Jesus is called Christ, it's not saying that he's God.
It's saying that he's the Messiah. just like Moses was the Messiah in Exodus. So that's that's how people are trying to swim around that. The problem is that in Numbers 21 it says unfortunately they sinned against God and the Lord is the one who sent the serpents. So >> right, but >> words don't mean what they mean, guys.
Exactly.
>> Words just don't mean what they mean.
That's what that's what they don't get.
So, >> they just don't mean what they mean.
>> Well, um, there's people people on, uh, or Faith Logic over on TikTok's trying to get me to 40k likes, so that's why I'm holding on.
>> He's been getting me at 100K likes, man.
So, >> he's a real one, >> bro. It's built different. He's got thumbs of steel.
>> Um, you're almost there. We can uh >> Oh, he got me there. He got me there.
All right, Tik Tok. I appreciate it. Uh appreciate y'all for watching. I That's how I I don't know like right around like 9:30 all of a sudden that like it's like things start to happen again and people people uh people kick back up and want to um and people want to chat and so uh which is tough because that's right about the time that I kind of want to wind it down.
I'm trying to do about an hour and a half and then people like no no we're coming. So, appreciate y'all watching Tik Tok. Appreciate all the likes. Um, man, some some fun conversations on if Jesus is God. Uh, y'all are goated.
Y'all the real ones. I'm going to shut down the live stream over on Tik Tok.
So, uh y'all uh y'all take it easy.
Peace.
I got to figure out how to how to raid streams. I have no idea how, but um um all right, peeps. Thank y'all so much for watching. Um had a blast. Yep. Uh, I I stream every Tuesday night at 8:30 and every Friday at, um, 2 PM Central, both both, uh, both Central time. And so, uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna eventually add another stream time. Um, but I do a lot of debating, going to throw in some other stuff, some reactions. But, yeah, it it was it was painful. Hello, kidding. That it was painful painful to watch. But if Hey, if you're here, I'm I'm trying to get to 4K uh, subs. And so I'm really close. I'm at like 3,940, I think. And so uh or maybe I've gone up since the stream. I don't know. But I would appreciate um I'd appreciate a sub. Uh do I talk to Christians? I need to do a live stream where I just do like a Q&A from Christians for sure. Um yeah. Also, y'all check out Rich at the Rich's Take.
That's his um YouTube. He's also over on TikTok. So, appreciate y'all watching and uh hey, enjoy enjoy your Tuesday night. Bye.
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