The Death of the Dollar Has Already Started | Andy Schectman

Añadido: 2026-05-18

[00:00:00]should I buy this asset? And I'm like, I don't know. Should you? Why do you think it will go up? That's how I think. And so, I want to have a thesis. I think gold will be higher. Why?

[00:00:08]>> We're broke. We're insolvent. And we're uneducated. Just in time for AI to come and kneecap all the good paying jobs.

[00:00:13]How do you look your kids in the face and say you too have the opportunities that I had? You don't.

[00:00:18]>> No jobs are going to be available and the need for UBI. And uh I completely disagree with that point.

[00:00:24]>> Well, I think the Genius Act is diabolically genius. Is there any coincidence that Tether has bought 15 billion in gold? I don't know. It's kind of seems a little strange to me.

[00:00:33]>> I'm pretty bullish on the US right now at this point. The re-industrialization, the remanufacturing. Are you bullish on that or do you think it's uh too big of a task?

[00:00:41]>> And I'm not saying that to be trit. I mean it sincerely. It is the beginning, I think, of what happens when a system >> All right, Andy, I'm always excited to sit down with you. I love hanging out with you and I'm excited to dig in today discussing a bunch of topics. The US dollar, dollar flows, gold moving out of the comics, which you're really deep into, central bank repatriation, digital currencies, the plumbing of the monetary system, all that.

[00:01:07]>> But for most people that are listening right now, they probably think that sounds too technical and abstract, like it has nothing to do with them. So, let me start with this question first here.

[00:01:17]>> Why should the audience care? what's actually at stake for them if they understand what we're about to discuss, what you're going to walk us through, what do they what do they hope to gain over the next 18 months? If they don't understand it, what could be the cost?

[00:01:33]>> Uh, fair question. Uh, and a good one.

[00:01:35]Um, I think what people need to understand is that this is this isn't just about gold. This this is far from gold. gold is just in my mind one of the solutions to a bigger problem and I think a a bigger problem is what is happening with the dollar, what is happening with the treasury market, maybe the treasury more than anything.

[00:02:00]Um and what we are seeing in in many respects, Mark, is a move away from treasuries into um something that similar to to Bitcoin uh in your own possession can't be taken, can't be sanctioned um and has trust. The dollar has lost trust. The Treasury has lost trust. Our institutions have lost trust. Our geopolitical aspirations are questioned. Our political system has lost trust. We are a divided nation. Um there are a lot of problems and I think it's first important to say look a system that is built on trust where trust has been eroded um is a problem and to me that's the most important thing and I think that that's where we start and we can see that when you look at at China who has cut their treasury holdings in half and has bought gold for 17 straight months. I think you can see that in countries like France who just um brought back all of their gold that had been held at the New York Federal Reserve for the better part of 50 years.

[00:03:10]And um prior to that, the German Bundist Bank, the Bank of Austria, Hungary, Turkey, Poland, the Czech National Bank, they've all done the same thing. India repatriating all of their gold from the Bank of England. These were these these were uh literally the two hubs where where gold was parked for the last 50 plus years because it gave direct access to the LBMA and to the comx far more convenient. These nations I think are instead of finding convenience the most important thing I think they're finding the lack of geopolitical or excuse me of of counterparty risk rather far more important and they want to hold it in their own possession rather than trusting the system trusting our markets trusting our promises and the same thing could be said for all that we see on comx deliveries that have never been seen before deliveries that are so far outside of what is normal normal, an anomaly in every respect. Um, these all boil down to the same thing to me. Lack of trust and and I think this is going to manifest itself primarily in the Treasury market. That's where the problems are. what starts out slowly across the globe by very informed players, central banks, starts to move and really affect big players uh in in finance across the globe all the way down to the average person on the street. uh prime example I guess you could say is you know we we look at at the war that we've seen and and every war I've been doing this for 35 years Mark and every every war that we've seen that involved oil in the Gulf few things happen the dollar gets a bump there's a rush to liquidity everyone needs to buy dollars in order to have liquidity to buy oil so the dollar goes up oil typically goes up assets fall whether it be stocks or or or commodities ities like gold. The theory is throw out the baby with the bathwater, sell everything, get liquid. Um and and and so we see typically a fall in gold, a fall in in equities, a bump in in the dollar, a bump in oil. We also see something that this time we didn't. We see interest rates that fall as there is a rush to the safety of US treasuries.

[00:05:30]It's not happening this time. In fact, it's the opposite. interest rates have gone higher in the face of more treasuries being sold. Again, coming back to trust. And I think the theme of everything I've been talking about lately is the lack and the erosion of trust and what that means to a system that is reliant upon trust. I know we'll dig into that. And I'm not saying that to be trit. I mean it sincerely. It is the beginning, I think, of what happens when a system that needs trust loses it.

[00:06:01]>> Yeah. Well, um that is a center point of my entire thesis as well. Um but I want to dig into what that word means. So basically what you're saying is that um we are the reason why people should care about what we're talking about today is because we're all living through witnessing a monetary regime shift, a historical moment in time where the monetary system globally is changing.

[00:06:26]>> Yep.

[00:06:26]>> And that that's kind of what we're talking about now. what you're saying the catalyst for that change for that regime shift is this loss of trust. Now it is um obviously uh being a gold guy um and I'll give you credit. You also like Bitcoin as well, but being a gold guy um you know gold the gold bugs have always talked about the death of the dollar and the dollar is going down and that pushes um that pushes gold up. And so that makes me think of I don't trust the dollar. So back to the word trust. I don't trust the dollar to hold its value.

[00:06:57]So I'll buy treasuries. I don't trust the Treasury bonds to hold their value, so I'll buy gold.

[00:07:05]But are but you're talking about repatriating gold as in like I want custody. So maybe when you say a loss of trust, you're thinking something different. Maybe you could explain what you mean by that loss of trust. I'm thinking trust in institutions, trust in in the COMX market that in since Thanksgiving has had four glitches they call it where twice to the upside as as gold and silver were roaring higher there is a glitch the servers overheat on on Thanksgiving evening because evidently everyone's trading at 11:00 at night on Thanksgiving um and then the price after it opens up 11 hours later because evidently of the thousand commodities traded on Comx just the gold servers is overheated. Uh the price cascades lower. Same thing happened a few weeks later or on the two downdrafts that we saw the circuit breakers glitched. Um that's that kind of trust trust of institution. But look, you know, you want to put it right in your face when when former Secretary of Treasury Pollson just comes out and says that uh the US authorities need to draft an emergency contingent plan.

[00:08:10]>> A break the glass plan he called it.

[00:08:12]>> Yeah. because they of a potential collapse in demand for US treasuries. I think again why would people not want to hold treasuries? Well, it's trust. It's fiscal irresponsibility.

[00:08:24]It's uh it's it's it's just a system where people are beginning to realize that the Fed is trapped. They will always do what they've always done. All governments choose inflation over austerity. And you look at it and you say, "Yeah, it's, you know, they can confiscate your treasuries. They can inflate the dollar." And I just think again they don't trust that they won't.

[00:08:46]No one does. And I think you'd be silly to trust it. To buy any long-term duration treasuries right now would be a big big big mistake. And I think that's part of the reason why that's happening.

[00:08:57]You look at the Treasury today, just recently buying back 15 billion of their own debt, uh, which is the largest Treasury buyback in history. So they're buying back longer term debt, financing it with short-term debt. I mean, they're borrowing money to keep the lights on.

[00:09:11]And I think that when you see a Treasury that needs to issue new debt just to support the market for old debt, it begins to look circular. And that to me is a sign that the, you know, the organic demand for treasuries is weakening. On top of the fact that this is the first war I've seen where rates have gone higher instead of lower as they're really isn't that demand for the treasury, which is symbolic of of trust.

[00:09:37]When we crossed that line with Russia, when we took their their treasuries, I think half the world is saying, "Let me get this right." So, you guys went into Iraq 23 years ago under false pretenses and completely obliterated their country and and changed their regime, and you're still there, and it's okay. You can do that with no consequences. But you, as the reserve currency, have the right to be judge, jury, and executioner for what Russia wants to do for their own, you know, for their own reasons. I'm not passing judgment on any war. just simply saying the world looks at us as being hypocritical and irresponsible fiscally and monetarily and then they look at what we're doing around the world where you see tariffs that are actually sanctions in tariff clothing. Um, and I think the world is is growing tired of it. So, you're beginning to see a lack of trust, a lack of faith in institutions, in policy, in in fiscal and monetary responsibility. These things are real. You can see it. and you know so it's it's it's not something that happens overnight but you can see things are being put into place that are very very slowly beginning to I think take shape so I think that the biggest issue Mark that a lot of people have a hard time with in my mind is that instant gratification is not fast enough in this country and the drawn out nature of this the death by 10,000 paper cuts is usually too much for people to to hang with and follow um but I think It's starting to to accelerate and and there will be repercussions for all of the debt that we have created in an environment where the demand and appetite to continue to buy our debt is waning.

[00:11:15]>> Hey, look. You've you've worked hard to build your Bitcoin stack. But if it's still sitting on an exchange, it's not really yours. You see, the exchange holds the keys to your Bitcoin. Now, if they freeze withdrawals, if they get hacked, they go under your Bitcoin. It could disappear overnight. Even if you've moved it into a single cold wallet, you're still exposed. Now, that would be one device, one point of failure. If anything bad were to happen, you could lose your Bitcoin. Now, that's why I use Unchained. Their collaborative custody vault gives me the best of both worlds. I hold my keys, but my security doesn't depend on just one of them. Now, this is where security and sovereignty actually meet. You see, Unchained's collaborative custody Bitcoin vaults use a two of three multi-Ic model, which means that you hold two keys and Unchained holds one. That means that you own your Bitcoin, but if you ever need help, like their team is there to assist you without ever having control over your funds. And here's what I really like. Unchained isn't some offshore exchange or anonymous company. They're based in Austin, Texas. And when you call, you're not stuck with bots or scripts. you talk to a real Bitcoiner who genuinely cares about helping you get it right. Now, they've been at it since 2016 and now secure over 12 billion in Bitcoin for people just like you and I. Now, that kind of trust doesn't happen overnight. So, if you're serious about long-term security and ownership, head over to unchained.com/mark moss and use code Moss 10 to get 10% off of your first vault. Because if you don't hold your keys, you don't hold your future. So I mean uh that's a wide ranging trust. I mean again like I said that's a core piece of my thesis as well. And you you mentioned uh what happened with Russia and their treasuries being taken. And I think that was sort of the defining moment for me.

[00:12:56]That was sort of the the straw that broke the camel's back where it's like we can't hold the bedrock financial instrument of the world anymore because it could just be taken. So we have to go figure something else out. And and the reason why I want to clear that up is just because as I kind of said in leading into that question is that gold bugs typically think that I can't trust the dollar to hold its value. So that means inflation and and you mentioned you know the government's um balance sheet and their inability to have austerity.

[00:13:25]And so I see that inflation typically has been that trigger. But when I look back at gold from 2020 to 2024 for four years almost in one of the largest monetary debasements the large monetary injections we've seen in history record inflation like three four day decade record inflation 9% CPI in the US gold did nothing gold went zero gold didn't even move so it's like huh well it obviously wasn't responding to inflation or debasement or monetary stimulus But then it started moving and to me it seemed more about the the the trust as in counterparty risk as in my ability to hold my wealth and transact that wealth over that. So I don't know if you have a take on that.

[00:14:14]>> It's important to just lay it out there.

[00:14:17]For a very long time the west has suppressed the price of gold. Period.

[00:14:21]End of story. They've suppressed it for various reasons. My dear departed friend Jim Sinclair used to call things like that mope, management of perception economics, where they were managing the perception of the the the system. During that time, central banks started buying gold at a level no one has ever seen before and they've continued to do so to the point where they own almost 20% of all the gold in the world. They use the stupidity of a western system through something called Gibson's paradox. the inverse relationship between zerobound interest rates and the price of gold, real interest rates in gold. So, they had to kill the canary in the mineshaft.

[00:15:01]Now, nobody ever challenged the West.

[00:15:03]Nobody did until right around that time.

[00:15:06]And they were using the West's uh ability to hold down the paper price with levered contracts to stand for delivery. And I truly do believe that someone got into this administration's ear and said, "Look, we we we have to put an end to this." We do because this is happening and it's happening in real time. You see, when when when the price is is sold on paper in New York, it drives down the paper price. But then they can go long, they being the commercial banks here in the United States go long in London to offset their balance sheet, make it look like everything's okay and trade back and forth with one another warrants. You own it, I own it, you own it, I own And really very very little physical ever was delivered ever. Less than 1% of contracts stood for delivery my whole career 35 years. That's changed. The nations in the global south the bricks in particular and their allies the way that they I believe have been setting the table for all of this is standing for delivery across the globe and shorting the paper price or letting the west do it and then standing for delivery everywhere else. This is what is changing and it's changing here too.

[00:16:12]the amount of deliveries that we have seen in New York are so far off that the chart I to me you have the most well-informed traders on the planet that are doing something that nobody has ever seen before and the only reason the rest of the world didn't [ __ ] about what the West was doing to hold down the paper price to make our bond market seem stronger than it was to make our currencies seem stronger than they were when you suppress interest rates to near nothing that's where you start the only reason they didn't [ __ ] is they've been accumulating it ever since since right around that time 2019 they really started buying it right and actually let's say 2017 right two years before the BIS classified gold tier one and repatriating it and buying it ever since from both the Fed and the the Bank of England continuing to do so continuing to purchase it using the suppression of the west so you are right it didn't it did not move as well as it was supposed to and and a lot of analysts point to that they look at the war here and say, "Well, geez, you know, gold doesn't have that that correlation, I guess, to to troubled times." And they point to the fact that yes, uh, oils is rising. I agree. Which then moves the CPI up, which then brings in inflation. And well, the Fed isn't going to raise interest rates, okay? Or lower rates.

[00:17:31]So, evidently, gold only moves if the Fed lowers interest rates. But if you look at what happened once they started to raise rates over 400 basis points in one year, what happened to gold? It went up in the face of rising interest rates and it was 1,800 bucks when that began.

[00:17:47]It's now almost 5,000. It's tripled. I guess my point is simply this is that the west has had a very vested interest in maintaining a suppressed gold price to maintain the illusion of of of wealth and um and you do that through suppressed interest rates. So, I guess it's very difficult, I think, for me to rationalize the mainstream um take on it that it didn't perform the way it should and it was counterintuitive to what everybody thought in inflation and all of these things. But if you take a step back and you take a look at it, let's look back, go back 20 years ago. In 2005, the price of a house was $240,000. Gold was 455 bucks an ounce. It's 530 O. Today the house is 500,000. It's doubled. Good investment. Gold earning no interest doing nothing for the last 21 years sitting under your mattress is has gone up fivefold and no one notices. It buys you five houses. So even though it's not as flashy and visible in terms of its gain as many things are um you know like Bitcoin, like Nvidia, like Apple, it's held its own and it's outperformed most things over a long stretch of time. I don't own it to become wealthy. I own it because it is wealth and it does retain its purchasing power just in a very kind of understated very very slow methodical way. Um sometimes not always the way we think. And if you are managing perception if you are managing the the price of gold because you've offshored your your manufacturing you you you have suppressed interest rates you have all of these dynamics at work. The one thing you don't want to do is to see gold flying through, you know, barriers and catching attention. You have the Western central banks where eight of them have maintained the largest concentrated short position of any commodity ever traded in the history, the ComX and silver and pretty damn close to gold.

[00:19:51]It's for a reason and that's the part that I think needs to be addressed. It's the same thing that frightened me about Bitcoin when the Colemax decided to take a contract on Bitcoin. Folks in New York have a lot of power and especially if it's under the guise of national interest. So, I think it's important.

[00:20:09]I'm not a tinfoil hack conspiracy freak, but what I will tell you is there's 100% certainty that gold has been managed for a very long time by the West and they're losing control of it now because of deliveries across the globe.

[00:20:21]>> Yeah, deliveries. Uh and and thanks for breaking that down. And the reason why I ask is you you made a really good point and the point is is that uh sometimes the price is just delayed and so there's there's not I I don't want to say never but almost never um like a onetoone correlation in markets and prices and assets u so it's important to understand what the underlying mechanics and the drivers are because I'm trying to understand what the direction is going to be in the future. So these things are catalysts and if these things continue to happen then the catalyst keeps going up >> doesn't mean it happens daily or weekly right it's like over long periods of time um and so you know I'm just trying to kind of understand that um and you you said something that I think actually hits this point really well which is that price if I'm just looking at price Warren Buffett always warned about looking at price uh he he said look at the value but you said that price is a tool of misdirection direction and instead of the price, we should be focusing on the vault and not the casino. Unpack that for us.

[00:21:27]>> Thousand%. Well, I mean, the best way of understanding that right now, I think you you take a look at China. So, in in January and February when the price of silver got its teeth kicked in, literally got its teeth kicked in, there are those out there calling it the Shanghai flip. um where in February and in March you saw the largest imports of silver in recorded history in into China ever as the price was getting decimated.

[00:21:56]As the price of gold was getting decimated in January, you had a $80 premium in Shanghai. They're still trying to get as much of it as they possibly can where you know the the the the price is is not indicative of the demand in February in Comx on Comx where for 18 months since Trump won the election delivery upon delivery upon delivery billions and billions and billions and billions every single month the mainstreams missed that completely.

[00:22:22]None of it matters. Nothing matters with price other than who the hell is standing for delivery. I'll give you my point. In February in the United States on Comx, about 26 million ounces, just under were delivered into the Comx from various places around the globe. 39 million ounces left Comx that same month. That's 2 million pounds of silver got on trucks with insurance and left.

[00:22:44]Who in God's green earth is doing that?

[00:22:46]Who's if if a thousand ounce bar weighs 70 pounds roughly 2 million pounds of silver in thousand ounce bars 39 thou or 39 million ounces left. It will never come back. It would need to be reasseted and and put back in at a high cost and a high time never going to happen. So my point is is that as price was misdirecting the public uh the biggest money on the planet was standing for delivery. And an interesting take is also the BIS, the Bank of International Settlements came out in what I thought was kind of taking the the CME group in the west to the woodshed and saying look um this was structural. This was not fundamental.

[00:23:25]This crash had nothing to do with fundamentals. It was structural for two things. Number one, levered ETFs levered meaning two three times uh leverage need to be rebalant rebalanced the first week in January every single time. So you have to rebalance which means they have to sell. At the same time the CME group raised margins by 300%. Let me explain what that means. We typically have over 2 million ounces of silver in our warehouse Mark and and on December 1st it was roughly five uh $15,000 to hedge 5,000 ounces. If I'm a speculator, I want to buy a contract. 15,000 in my margin account lets me control 5,000 ounces. It was about 60 bucks then in December. So call it $300,000. 20 times leverage. Within 2 months, it was $54,000 to hedge that exact same amount.

[00:24:13]If you have 2 million ounces of silver in your warehouse, you better have 50 million in cash in a margin account just sitting there as collateral. So, not only did the selling of the rebalancings push the price down and beget selling, beget selling, beget selling. At the same time, they raised raised margins by 300%. It I mean, if it just collapsed the price. So, what did China do? Thank you. We'll have we'll take the two biggest months of delivery on recorded history cuz we don't use margin. And whoever bought those the 26 million ounces delivered and 39 million ounces leaving, they're not standing for delivery using margin. In essence, it was structural. It was orchestrated. It was synthetic. It was not fundamental.

[00:24:55]The big money stood for delivery using that misdirection of price. And I think that's kind of what I mean. And if price was really indicative of value, then you wouldn't see those kind of deliveries.

[00:25:05]You'd see more selling.

[00:25:06]>> Okay, so I got to tell you what I've been doing with my money lately. I moved my cash over to River. And before you ask, yes, I still pay all my bills and dollars. Everything works the same. But here's the real difference. You see, River pays me 3.3% on my cash and they pay it in Bitcoin. So my money that was just sitting there doing nothing at all in the bank, it's now stacking Bitcoin while I sleep. And I started thinking like my bank takes my deposits, they loan those deposits out, they make 12, 17, 24% and they pay me 0.04%.

[00:25:36]I mean, honestly, that's kind of a shakeddown when you think about it. Now, River's FDIC insured. They use full reserve. They charge no fees. So, I don't know why I didn't do this sooner.

[00:25:45]So, click the link down below and get $100 in Bitcoin just for getting started. I want to push on that for a minute because years ago, uh, it might have been five, six years ago, I made a video that I I think it was titled something like silver's not what you think it is or something like that. And I was basically making the case that silver was demonetized, right? Gold and silver used to be money. Silver was demonetized.

[00:26:06]Gold is money. Um, JP Morgan said gold is money. Everything else is credit. Uh, recently, in recent years, and you you hinted this or you said it earlier, uh, the central banks have reclassified gold. they've changed the basil requirements. Uh we do see central banks buying gold. All of those things are true. Um you mentioned Shanghai. So um China setting up global trade through the Shanghai gold exchange I believe is one of the key drivers of pushing this gold price up. I see that.

[00:26:34]I see all that. I agree with all that.

[00:26:37]Where I want to push on is the silver piece because silver was demonetized.

[00:26:42]Nobody cares about silver. Central banks aren't buying silver. There's no basil requirements of silver. Now I think that retail likes silver because they believe in this mythological 15 to1 ratio that at some point is going to come back but that that was held push back on this but I believe that 15 to1 ratio was held one it made sense because of what we considered to be the ratio in the earth and then it was sort of held as those two were money smaller denominations larger denominations again silver demonetized gold now is money we we recognize that I see that you're pushing on the silver deliveries in China specifically physical gold I'm sorry physical silver I believe and again feel free to correct me here I believe that about 80% of silver's price is used for industrial purposes now China is the leading manufacturer in the world they make solar panels they make electronics all the things that require silver so if the leading manufacturer in the world making high-tech stuff that all needs silver and silver is being used for industrial purposes Wouldn't it just make sense that yes, record amounts of silver is being purchased physical because they're building it, but wouldn't that be separate than gold?

[00:27:58]Gold is being driven as a monetary asset. Central banks are buying for a monetary asset. Could silver and and I'm not obviously all the flows that you see are accurate, but it seems to me that those things should be looked at separately.

[00:28:11]>> Well, you're a smart dude and that's what I like about you. You have an open mind. you look at things from a a very pragmatic standpoint. India isn't a major producer of of electronics to my knowledge and they've imported about 900 million ounces over the last 5 years.

[00:28:24]Probably the biggest stockpile in the world. Um I think what's >> I do believe I do believe Apple is courting them to start making all the iPhones there. But anyway, >> well again you know hey I'm sure there is some manufacturing there but what silver is to your point it that 16 to1 15 to1 mythological ratio is now actually 7 to1. And Keith Newmier says it's depleting and that that's what's coming out of the ground. Seven silver for one gold, but it has plurality in uses. It is it is electronics and digital and uh obviously in a digital world with AI and all of the things you need it. It it is used in military componentry. No question about it. It does have it does have a very small monetary aspect for people stacking physical silver. Yes, I agree with you.

[00:29:08]and the and the the the retail side hasn't done anything to push the price higher. This is all being driven by very large buyers for sure. Um there are some central banks buying it. Russia made it a priority. The one of the first governments to announce they were adding it to to their government stockpile. So you see China, you see Russia, you see India doing it. In two years ago, the European Union called it a critical mineral very quietly. United States has just classified it a critical mineral.

[00:29:40]The uh China who is the largest refiner of Dory about 70% said yeah we're really not going to we're going to cut that down quite a bit. We're not going to export as much. But they also quietly last November and that one was missed by most people as the second largest producer in the world said we're not going to send any of our domestic production out to the to the world any longer. So what you have is an asset that is critical for an advanced an advanced society for not just AI and and electronics and but for military for for medical for all sorts of uses it's depleting in nature and it's depleting above ground because anything that that is inelastic a little bit for a big piece whether it be blown up in in cruise missiles uh because at at at you know hypersonic speeds there's nothing that can that can withstand that that temperature and conduct electricity the way silver can. Those are getting blown up. Little bits in anything that conducts electricity over time end up in landfills. It's it's disappearing. It's depleting. And I think there is, you know, the more things change, maybe the more they they they, you know, return, but maybe not the exact same way. I do think it is having a renaissance globally in in perception as being a monetary tool but the plurality of uses in very different sectors including the monetary side is something that I think is is catching it's catching the interest of a lot of very um smart people in including guys like David Baitman who's a billionaire who I've talked to and you know he'll tell you it was the best investment he ever made. He made more money in silver in two years than he did selling his tech company.

[00:31:20]And it's one of these deals where I think um you're right, it has been demonetized, but I wouldn't uh I don't think we're going back to a bi metallic world, but what we do have is an asset that is absolutely needed, has a history of being monetary. Um you go all the way back to the Bible, it was money before gold was. And I think there just there's a little bit of that resonance that is still floating around out there.

[00:31:44]Whatever it is, even if it's driven mostly by by industrial and military applications, um it's disappearing and there are a lot of people who will tell you it's a better substitute for for money than the dollars that we hold in our wallet which have the lasting power of a melting ice cube. So I get your point. um my point wasn't a similar my point wasn't a dig on silver and there's plenty of commodities that aren't money that are are are valuable. I mean copper is a massive shortage, right? So we look at commodities and we look at supply and demand. It's it's simple, right? Is there going to be more demand than supply in the future? And we can look at a lot of uh minerals, copper for example, and and there's a lot of value there. So it's not a dig.

[00:32:26]>> Well, let me let me push on that real quick, too. Not to interrupt you, but copper is uh definitely China just came out and said, "We're going to limit the amount of um sulfuric acid we send to the world, which you need to mine copper." Silver large the largest amount of silver that we find comes as a byproduct mining of copper. Um only 20% of what was mined last year. Now the seventh year in a row of a structural deficit, UBS is saying about 250 million ounces, which is about four times what the silver institute is saying in terms of a deficit. But you know the bottom line is if if only 20% of the 850 million ounces under 200 million came from companies like Keith Newers who mine silver specifically the rest comes from mining byproduct copper zinc and lead. And if if copper is that hard to get and it's going to become harder what does that do for silver? So to your point there's there's a lot there but >> yeah well >> clear was money silver isn't but has very similar qualities. Yeah. And the only thing I was just trying to dig at is kind of what I had said earlier, which is like I always want to try to understand the catalyst or the underlying drivers so I could start to try to understand where the price direction is going into the future because you know as you a lot of times I'm sure people ask me all the time you know um you know should I buy this asset and I'm like I don't know should you like why do you think it will go up?

[00:33:46]Tell me what you understand as the mechanism that would drive that and and uh that's how I think and so I want to have a thesis right I think gold will be higher why well I think more central banks will be buying it why well uh loss of trust right okay how much will they buy over and then I have a thesis and then as I take in information I'm always trying to confirm or deny that thesis right and so with silver I'm just trying to understand it seems like it's being used more from the manufacturing side and to your point, um, the US has put on a critical minerals list. Europe has, but that's because the US has deemed that there's a bunch of critical minerals that we should have because of this re-industrialization, for example, silver being one of those. And so, I'm just trying to understand the mechanisms, not obviously trying to take any value away from it.

[00:34:32]>> No, no, and I appreciate that you have to understand both sides of every argument or or you're just you're running a fool's errand. So, I appreciate that.

[00:34:40]>> Let's uh let's jump story a little bit.

[00:34:41]Uh, uh, go from the past. I don't know.

[00:34:44]Well, uh, I recently did a debate with Peter Schiff on zero hedge. Um, it was a couple weeks ago, I think, at this point. And, uh, I I said, "Hey, Peter, you know, the one thing that you have is gold's been money for 5,000 years.

[00:34:55]Bitcoin has been around 17 years. I can't change that." Uh, but while you're sitting talking about the past, let's talk about the future. Um, and I started about AI and AI agents and all those things, but anyway, let's talk about the future a little bit. Um, something that you've talked about quite a bit is, um, sort of this this hidden story, I think, inside the Genius Act. and stable coins and maybe what that's doing um in part of this like regime shift monetary transition that we're talking about. How do you see stable coins and the Genius Act being a part of that?

[00:35:25]>> Well, I think the Genius Act is diabolically genius to me. What it does is is create demand, synthetic demand for the front end of the Treasury market. So, you know, this this new uh Fed chair that's getting um getting quite a lashing from the Senate, um you know, he everyone says he's he's a he's a hawk and they're not going to lower rates because, you know, he wants higher rates. But what the Genius Act says is that anytime money moves next January on, it will be moved on a on a blockchain network backed by short-term treasuries 90-day or less primarily, which which will create synthetic demand for the treasury. And the Clarity Act says, well, you can't pass out the uh the interest. It's not transferable. The the issuer has to hold it. Um, I look at uh the CEO of USA Tether, which is one of the primary beneficiaries of it in that they're already Genius compliant.

[00:36:22]And I and I think, you know, is there any coincidence that the CEO of this new division of Tether is Bo Hines, Trump's cryptos are through last August. Um, I don't know. It's kind of seems a little strange to me. And and is there any coincidence that that Tether has bought 15 billion in gold? um the largest stockpile of gold in the world outside of of of central banks. If you wanted to do two things, if you wanted to reshore manufacturing, which is a whole argument, something I've talked a lot about, but if you wanted to pay down your debt, the the way to do it is certainly both are in a devalued dollar speaks to Triffin's dilemma and maybe a soft default on the reserve status is what I've been thinking for a long time publicly saying that in Vancouver. Um and the thing of it is is that um that's what the world has done to us.

[00:37:14]It's the only way to to bring back manufacturing. It's the only way to pay down the debt. But the only thing that you can do this against the supreme neutral asset, global neutral asset is gold. You don't want to lower it against the dollar index, which is a basket of crappy currencies. They're continually devaluing against the dollar because of Triffin's dilemma. They need to get more dollars. Look what the United Arab Emirates has just said. There's such a dollar shortage that they're going to have to start paying for things in yuan if we don't open up the the swap lines >> to them. So, in other words, if we did, they would have to sell their currency to buy our currency in order to buy oil.

[00:37:53]That's what Triffin's dilemma says that countries will constantly do that because there's not enough dollars given through trade alone. So they go into the open market and buy dollars which devalues their currency against ours. So measuring your currency against a basket of other currencies or any currency if you are the reserve currency again another fool's errand. It's you're measuring against devaluing currencies.

[00:38:15]A poor measuring stick measured against gold. And the higher gold goes and the lower the dollar goes devalues the dollar making paying off debt easier making um uh perhaps reshoring manufacturing much easier. The the the moral of the story uh is that I believe the Genius Act was created to not only somewhat neuter the Federal Reserve by pacing the low front end of the curve down to the to the floor. The overnight lending rate will be at or near zero because whether you buy a pack of chewing gum or a new home if it's if it's in dollars, it's going to be moved by stable coin and backed by short-term treasury synthetic demand for the Treasury market. So, it it is a scary thing. I had um Katherine Austin Fitz on my show and she said when you mesh the digital ID for voter integrity along with um a stable coin which kind of lets down people's guard because it's not a central bank digital currency. Yet she says it's worse. It's a central bank digital currency in stable coin clothing because the plumbing goes in and out of the the the the treasury. And so they will monitor the on-ramp and the off-ramp that it is the foray into the first step into the digital surveillance state into the control grid that she's nervous about. Right, wrong or indifferent. That's her her viewpoint.

[00:39:35]But anyways, it's it's an interesting thing to think that money will move digitally in in in in the name of convenience and expediency.

[00:39:43]But what it's really doing is giving demand to the front end of the Treasury market that perhaps is losing it and keeping rates really low.

[00:39:50]>> And you think it's diabolically genius because you think it's going to work and that will what prolong the life uh of the dollar that will increase the demand which then prolongs the life of the dollar. So like on one hand we kind of started out talking about the loss of trust in the dollar and sort of the the the ongoing death the 10,000 paper cuts of the dollar but then over here the diabolical genius of the genius act is that what it will increase demand and extend the life of the dollar.

[00:40:17]>> No I just think it creates synthetic demand for for an asset that is losing demand the treasury market.

[00:40:23]>> So so then it artificially increases that demand and then prolongs the life of it.

[00:40:28]>> Yes. and allows us to pay down our debt easier and would allow us to potentially bring back manufacturing. Triffin Silemma to which both Vice President Vance who has rallied against this publicly saying it along with the knucklehead that is Jared Bernstein I don't know if you remember ever watching him try to explain what uh treasuries were created he was um Biden's chief economic adviser he wrote a report called dethrone king dollar we can't be the reserve currency anymore it's it's it's it's uh it's eviscerated our manufacturing um how do you bring back manufacturing look Mark you know K-shaped economy you got You got 60% of America, according to Ray Dalio, with a a reading proficiency under that of the sixth grade. We're we're 39 trillion in debt, which ignores the Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, 175 trillion off balance sheet obligations. That's over 200 trillion in debt. So, we we don't make anything. We're we're broke.

[00:41:23]We're insolvent. And we're uneducated.

[00:41:25]Just in time for AI to come and kneecap all the good paying jobs, many of them, including entry level. So, what do you do? How do you look your kids in the face or their kids and say you too have the opportunities that I had? You don't.

[00:41:37]So, how do you bring back manufacturing?

[00:41:38]Well, the very first thing to do would be to reshore all the gold, which they've done. And that's part of Judy Shelton's idea, which we we can talk about or not. But the second thing you do is is find a way to massively devalue the dollar. And that would do it if they're taking the interest that cannot be transferred to the holder of the stable coin and buying gold, pushing the price of the dollar down, putting gold higher, and working out a deal with companies like Tether, like JP, like Goldman who are going to be issuing these and say that gold's going to end back up at the US Treasury. We will buy it from you. Um, I kind of think it's really what they want to do. I guess we'll see. But to me, it's diabolically genius because it it prolongs the system. Whether or not it it prolongs the dollar in in the current way we know it now, I think it gives us the ability to maybe start to work down our debt and maybe bring back manufacturing in a synthetic way where we're creating demand to keep the game going when otherwise you wouldn't get that kind of demand for the treasury market.

[00:42:41]>> You wouldn't put all your money in one stock. So, why have your whole life in one single country? Now, if you've thought about another passport, Italy and citizenship might just be what you've been looking for. Italy has one of the most underrated golden visas in all of Europe. Just a €250,000 investment threshold. And with citizenship, you can make that investment into Bitcoin, not some risky business venture or real estate that you don't actually want. Approval times are usually about 3 to 6 months, and you don't put any money in until your visa is approved. Plus, with the Golden Visa, there's no physical residency that's required. You can get full Shen access from day one, and it's renewable forever. Now, Italy puts you at the heart of Europe. And with Shenen Access, it gives you flexibility across 29 countries. If you want another passport and you want your investment to have Bitcoin exposure like me, then citizenship may be the answer you're looking for. So, go to bitizenship.com/marks and check it out. Now uh I mean you know we know each other so you know this about me but just just and the audience knows this about me but I'm an optimist.

[00:43:47]Uh I'm an entrepreneur. We have to be optimistic otherwise we would never build anything right. Uh I'm an optimist and uh I'm pretty bullish on the US right now at this point. Uh I'm bullish on the reindustrialization, the remanufacturing. I'm bullish that we can cut through the red tape and bring back the mining. We can bring back the refineries. We can bring back uh some of the manufacturing. Um, you mentioned that we need to sort of devalue the dollar to make that happen. Are you optimistic about that? Are you bullish on that or do you think it's uh too big of a task?

[00:44:18]>> No, I I do think it's possible and that's why I've been talking about this for the last year. Look, you know, the Shaw Shank Redemption, Andy Drain had to crawl through two miles of [ __ ] to get to the other side. And there was something to be optimistic about, but you have to crawl through that tube first. we you have to do you have to address the reality and the way to do it to devalue the dollar without without outright defaulting would be to do something like this and I think that's very important you know Triffin's dilemma is real you cannot sell your stuff to the world in a dollar that is so expensive that is so much higher than everything else and relatively speaking to other currencies that's the problem people in America have a hard time with valuations they're not valued arbitrarily valued against what right >> well you value it against gold every single asset you can think of has has deflated against gold has gone down but measuring dollars are all going up. So I just think that they need to soft default on the US dollar and do it in a manner where you let gold go much higher as the barometer of the value of gold while pasting interest rates to the ground to stimulate all of the the things that you're talking about that would give you optimism and how do you bring back manufacturing that's another discussion which I do think will happen but I am optimistic but you know I think the byproduct of all of this for a period of time would be universal basic income because the stuff you're talking about certainly we will be far more efficient but at the expense of what millions and millions of good paying jobs I think that will be the case as well and so there is reason to think that we can go back to you know being the engine of growth and manufacturing and ingenuity but it won't be easy and there will be a period of time for a lot of people where it will be very difficult I think not only to make ends meet but to find things in the storeshelves that we are very accustomed to because you know the good graces of our foreign creditors who have recycled all of their dollars into treasuries keeping the long end of the bond market cheap for all of these years has been what's made asset prices high has made uh uh you know the goods that we buy at Walmart cheap and um this is something that I think you know could be look look at China they've cut their treasury holdings in half the world doesn't want to hold the long end of bond market anymore and why would they as irresponsible as we are. So there are things that we have to get through. Um and maybe they'll figure out how to do it. I like your optimism. I've noticed that about you and it it's no fun being a buzzkill. It isn't and I get it and I try to find optimism. This is one way where I I think we have no choice but to do this in order to be optimistic. We have to address the indebtedness and we have to address the fact that we've offshored all of our manufacturing. No matter what, we cannot be reliant on other countries for everything from aspirin to aircraft parts and everything in between. It's what we need to do and it's going to be a long road. But then if we do this, Americans have done best with their back against the wall. Maybe, maybe, just maybe, there is reason to be optimistic. But to your point, to the economy, I don't know about the economy for a while, but to the direction that we can go in terms of efficiency. Yeah, absolutely. What does it mean to the broader economy and to the people who are uneducated and don't have the ability to find jobs in a in a world where inflation ain't going away?

[00:47:44]Probably going to get worse. How do they get through this? There's universal basic income. There are the tough times, but just like the Great Depression, we came out and we were stronger for. Let's hope that's the case this time.

[00:47:55]>> So, I want to talk about you you mentioned, you know, devaluing the dollar to get across this um system. And I think there's a mechanism with gold and the treasury and the Trump admin.

[00:48:05]Scott Bent has been pretty vocal about that. I want to dig into that piece. But before we do, I want to go back and talk about a piece that you brought up because you mentioned, you know, the millions and millions of jobs that are going to be lost and um you know, no jobs are going to be available and the need for UBI and uh yeah, I I I completely disagree with that point. Um so uh as a friend, we can we can talk about this. I think it's worth worth double clicking.

[00:48:28]>> I'd love to please. uh just because I think that history >> we could say this time is different but history shows that's not the case. So I think uh a couple things number one every single time there's a new technological revolution or even a new piece of technology the risk the analysts always come out and tell us all these jobs will be lost. Um and there's truth to that but what happens is that more that doesn't happen in a vacuum. So more jobs are created every single time.

[00:48:59]Um, and so I think I think number one and what happens is we have these analysts and you're an entrepreneur. So you'll get this an analyst is an analyst. They're not entrepreneur.

[00:49:07]They're not a risk taker. They're a bean counter. An entrepreneur, a b a builder, we see problems and we create solutions for that. When I see a mountain, I just I want to go climb the mountain. I don't know why. I just have this innate feeling that I should go climb that mountain. I don't know what it is. And so when I'm able to use AI for more efficiency gains and all of a sudden I can free up 20% of my team's time, >> I don't go, well, I should just fire half my team. No, what I do is go, finally, I can go have them do all these other projects we couldn't get to. Now I can go launch all these new programs and products that I could never have thought of. And let me give you a real practical example of that. So this probably the single most at risk skill right now from AI today and and certainly there's going to be disruption certainly jobs are going to come out as as those new jobs are going to get replaced and then what is the timing of that and we don't know history sort of gives us a guide but probably the number one most at risk job right now is coding people are vibe coding now right people are vibe coding apps uh claude code is building its own code for claude code it's amazing right it's it's unbelievable um I've been using it to make some code and I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm not a software engineer. Right?

[00:50:27]>> But the number one job being hired for right now are for software engineers.

[00:50:34]And the reason why this is happening, I think it's called Jevon's paradox, is what happens is as it lowers the barrier to entry, more people want to do it. So what do I mean by that? I now have two software products, two apps that I'm working on trying to roll out. By the way, anybody listening to this, if you want to work on this with me, send me a message. But I have two that I want to roll out that I think going to be amazing. I think my audience will absolutely love them. And I never would have considered it two years ago because the barrier to entry was so high it doesn't even make sense. But today, it's accessible. So shoot, I'm going to go hire a couple people and we're going to go do this. So the number one job at risk I'm going to do more of. So I just think it's like this entrepreneurial lens is different. I want to grow. I want to use the efficiency gain to grow, not to work less. Um and uh and on the UBI side, I think the problem with the UBI is uh you've seen uh the pictures of like uh this the the state parks and it says don't feed the animals because they'll become dependent on the food and they can't go forge for themselves or whatever, right? And so what happens is when we offset people's income, then they don't need to go forge for themselves. And the problem with an animal, an animal born in um captivity, it can never be released to the wild because it just doesn't know how to hunt. But we're not animals. We're humans and we can always go work if we're hungry. And uh I built a house a couple years ago down in Mexico. I spent a lot of time down there. They don't have welfare. And when I go out at Costco, there's guys helping me with my groceries in my car. And when I take a boat at the beach, there's guys trying to help you with the boat and they're they're selling you waters and there people are working. And so I think like uh the UBI is this crutch that will keep people from working. Uh but there's going to be more jobs. Uh yes, some people will have to learn new skills. So for example, everybody that works for me, I want them to use AI. So AI, tell them AI is not going to replace your job. Someone using AI will replace your job. So if someone doesn't want to learn that, I mean, sure, if if if imagine if you were going to hire someone today in your office that wouldn't use a computer, you wouldn't do you wouldn't hire someone that didn't use a computer, right? So anyway, that's my take on it.

[00:52:33]Uh what do you think about that?

[00:52:35]>> I love your I love your optimism. I wish I fully agreed with you in some respects. I do. You know, I mean, we're we're so far down the road of indebtedness before we weren't. How does that factor into it? There aren't very many Mark Mosses. You're you're you are a maverick. You're an entrepreneur.

[00:52:52]You're a visionary. You've built bought and sold businesses. You you're on iHeart Radio. Everything about you screams entrepreneurial success. I think people like you um are not a dime a dozen, right? I think you're kind of kind of a unicorn in that respect. And and I mean that like not to kiss your butt, but but that there if it was so easy what you did, then there'd be a whole lot of people doing what you do. I know how hard it is. I know how hard it is to prepare for even an interview like this. And um you're ahead of the curve.

[00:53:27]Always have been. So I don't I don't dismiss what you're saying. What I am saying is if you listen to Ray Dalio saying 60% of the country has a literacy rate under the sixth grade >> that's a problem >> when you realize that it is a problem and when you it is and and and and I just wonder you know again I'm not trying to short sell anyone. I wonder if if people growing up now >> have the same kind of work ethic that you and I had growing up in the 70s and 80s. And again I'm not trying to to put everyone into a a basket. I just look at the problems that we have. Another thing too is the lack of unification in this country. Not not everyone sees things the same way. You say you're in Mexico.

[00:54:09]I mean, go drive through Mexico. There are parts of Mexico where you know it's it's third world literally and they're living in in squalor now working.

[00:54:20]>> I understand that. I get it. The point of it is is that I think you will see maximum efficiency for the very wealthy at the expense of jobs. And maybe that will change. I'll give you an example.

[00:54:29]My son, who works for me now, graduated from the Ross School of Business, one of the most prestigious business schools in the country. Cost me almost $400,000 to send him there. Came out and went to Manhattan to work for Price Waterhouse, getting paid 72,000 is all they gave him, starting uh salary to analyze the balance sheet of a real estate investment trust. What do you need that for when AI says done? uh what do you need that entire group of young kids that was brought in to to do accounting?

[00:54:59]Those kind of jobs, I think, will run into a wall. So, there will be someone, to your point, who will use AI, but do you need a whole legion of new kids to to do those things? I don't know. I just think that it's and and again, beware of the guy who says it's different this time. To me, AI seems far more disrupting than even the internet was. Now maybe that seems silly to you who's far more tech advanced than I am, but when everything is at your fingertips in AI where people use chat GPT and cloud now instead of Google, it just seems that this this technology where the actual software, the actual program is programming itself, it just seems as though it's rather disrupting.

[00:55:45]Now again, I don't want to be the the doom and gloomer. I I would rather be optimistic. I truly would. And I hope you're right. Honest to God, I got three kids, two of which are still in college, and I hope they have the future that you're talking about. But if you come out of college right now and don't have any understanding of AI, you took some sort of a, you know, a liberal arts degree, where are you going? What are you going to do? Um, I don't know. I >> I'm calling this the great I'm calling this the great paradox of our time which is for college >> grads I think it's uh >> 30% of college grads under 30 are unable to find a job in their uh their major or whatever. Um so the paradox of our time is that it's never been harder for people to get ahead than it is today.

[00:56:29]But at the same time it's never been easier to make money. But the problem is the people who went through the education system and their teachers for 12 years plus then four or five years of uh continue education have told them what to do. Sit here when the bell rings move to here. Do this task. Turn it in this way. Format it this way. So when they come out, they're looking for people to tell them what to do. And now you have 22-year-old kids that are just learning AI and learning how to use cloud code in a week and then they're getting four or $5,000 jobs, contract jobs to set up, you know, AI agents and and workflows. Um, but I >> brother, I hope you're right, but I do want I do want to say uh what you said with Radalio and the and the and the education gap that we have and people's work ethic today, that's a whole separate issue and that's a big problem.

[00:57:14]Um, but let's move on. Um, I want to start wrapping this up, but I want to talk about sort of this future of uh where we think gold is going because we're talking about the mechanism and the catalyst and what's driving that, right? So, um, you talked about, um, how we sort of need to see the dollar, um, devalued so that we can afford to do all of this growth. Um, and actually I only have a couple minutes left here, but, um, is one of those and and I said the Trump administration seems pretty favorable to this. Is one of those mechanisms potentially that you see being where the dollar is, or I should say the US government revalues the gold that they have on their books, which then gives the Treasury more money and devalues the dollar. or is that something that you're looking at and you're thinking that could happen and maybe help this that that that piece?

[00:57:59]>> Yeah, I think they'll do all they can to let it move organically before they would cross that bridge, but you're right. Every $4,000 increase in the price of gold gives a treasury general account 1 trillion free and clear and devalues a dollar. It is still on the books at 4222 an ounce. So yes, whether they do it organically or organic organically slashed synthetically through something like the Genius Act or just simply by decree which the government would not need congressional approval to do so. Yes. I think the idea is that gold has to revalue somehow by hook or crook. I do think that will happen. Absolutely.

[00:58:32]>> Yeah. And I love that just because like that's sort of like uh to to your point and I would agree with that like they want it to happen organically. talked about them wanting to allow Bitcoin and gold both to be like this liquidity sponge where they could let inflation run hot, devalue the dollar, let inflation run hot to get this re-industrialization, but instead of having widespread inflation that really hurts everybody if they could allow gold and Bitcoin to rise and be that sponge, maybe it could soak up a lot of that liquidity. And again, I'm an optimist, but maybe gold and Bitcoin could sort of be that sponge and we can get all that inflation they need, but then not really affect everything as much. And then to the point that you said, you know, worst case scenario or maybe their last point is then just to go ahead and revalue it.

[00:59:12]So I think that's a a big thing to keep an eye on.

[00:59:15]>> Totally. And and you know, um this is why I I love being on your show and talking with you and and Natalie Brunell and and I was on with Swan and and u crypto banter and all sorts of of Paul Baron because it's it's I I do believe that gold isn't Bitcoin's competitor.

[00:59:34]Gold is Bitcoin's proof of concept and gold spent 5,000 years proving that you know I don't know humanity will always reach for something scarce when out and outside the government control when you know the what you know what hits the fan but >> um and I think I do think um that we should we should be a more united community and I do think that that you're far better off having some of both. I really do and there there's one thing that I think the gold community needs to do and I will I'm here to tell you it's doing it and that is that you know and and I give credit to this you know you can't call your gold at at 2 in the morning and say I I need to move my my gold across border in 10 minutes and that's not a small thing you can do that with Bitcoin and I think this is being addressed even the the um World Gold Council just came out with a a paper talking about digital gold and how there's so many different forms forms of it, you know, tether packs, etc., but they're not interoperable with one another. And that that is the goal. The World Gold Council wants to provide a a commonality underneath everyone's different platforms that allows interoperability. It allows for collateralization, allows for crossber trade. And I think that in and of itself might help unite the two communities.

[01:00:54]And that's something I've been very very vocal about, very adamant. We see the world largely the same way. you began your journey with gold. You understand exactly what I mean that in many ways they're similar mindsets but different once you get in the door. I'm trying to find a way to get us all together in the same room. And I think I I really do believe the gold community is trying very hard at least those of us that are forward thinking optimistic and I'm trying to be um >> to uh to to address that. So um you know maybe we'll get there someday soon.

[01:01:26]>> Love it Andy. Love it. That's a good place to stop. Um, obviously, uh, Miles Franklin Gold, uh, anything you want to point to, uh, send people to, uh, draw attention to before we wrap this up?

[01:01:36]>> Yeah. You know, if you want to watch our videos, which you've been on our show before with Michelle McCrory, that's myfranklin media.com. Um, excuse me, myfranklin media, not.com, milesdia at YouTube. And if anyone wants a price list that we keep close to the vest that will be as good or better than anywhere, [email protected].

[01:01:54]Just put in the subject line you saw us on this show. Any questions you have, let us know. I uh I respect you, Mark. I appreciate you. I uh thank you for letting me come on your show. It's an honor. And uh look forward to picking up where we left off again real soon. But stay well until then.

[01:02:08]>> Thanks. We'll link to that down in the show notes down below. And uh thanks Andy. We'll see you soon.