Silenced No More – Sexual Terror Unveiled

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[00:00:01]Welcome to this UKFI charitable trust webinar on the report silence no more sexual terror unveiled the untold atrocities of October 7 and against hostages in captivity.

[00:00:15]This definitive report based on over two years of work investigating and chronicling the sexual and gender-based violence as part of the atrocities committed on the 7th of October and subsequently against hostages was published on the 12th of May 2026. It is a report documenting acts of extreme violence including these sexual and gender-based crimes. And while our discussion will not cover the full detail contained in the report, some references to traumatic events and atrocities may still be very distressing for those in the audience. Please be advised. The report chronicles patterns in the abuse and its systematic nature.

[00:01:01]It is grounded in a unique war crimes archive which provides an evidentary and legal foundation for future investigation, prosecution, and prevention. I'm honored to introduce two of the reports authors, Dr. Kav El Cayam Levy and Olivia Flash to discuss their approach to this work and their experiences, the investigation, compilation of the evidence, the findings of the report, and the proposals and recommendations they've put forward on the basis of their groundbreaking work. Dr. Kohav El Cayam Levy is the lead author of the report.

[00:01:39]She's an expert in international law and human rights and the recipient of the 2024 Israel Prize. That's Israel's highest civilian honor. She's the founder and chair of the civil commission on October 7th crimes by kamas against women and children. And she teaches at Rakman University. She's also the recipient of the 2024 uh Perez Center for Peace and Innovation Medal of Distinction and the Jane Evans Pursuit of Justice Award. Olivia Flash is a legal consultant in public international law specializing in the laws of war and international crimes. She holds a master of laws from the University of Oxford and has worked with governments, international organizations and NOS's on a wide variety of international law issues including the verification of digital evidence in criminal proceedings, the regulation of AI in the military domain and protecting the environment in armed conflicts. Olivia frequently writes about Israel and international law. Ladies and gentlemen, please put your questions to our speakers into the Q&A facility for the post-presentation discussion. Kav, uh, thank you for leading such an extraordinary unprecedented project.

[00:03:01]Please may I ask you to begin by providing an overview of the report and its findings? Of >> course. Uh, thank you so much for this introduction, Natasha, and thank you all for joining us today. Um it's always interesting that I find myself nervous again and again and again sharing uh the findings of this report and uh details of our work. So I'll try to keep it as informal as possible and uh leave a lot of space for uh discussion.

[00:03:31]Um so first of all as Natasha said um the report uh represents an archive a historical archive that preserves testimony that we originally filmed and information and images and videos from the attack itself that the perpetrators themselves um filmed and glorified during the attack. information gathers from gathered from victims from former hostages from uh families and really um a lot of materials gathered over these two uh almost and a half years of investigation.

[00:04:08]The report and the archive over around 300 pages, I think, allow us to take a step back and see the war in its entirety, to see the scope of the atrocities and not only the scope of the atrocities, the ways that the way they were conducted in a way that I think um allow us to understand the broader u methods and the practices that were conducted these these uh by by the perpetrators.

[00:04:40]Um I want to say that after two years of immersing ourselves in the materials, we understood that we have to we we really see patterned um operations that we see patterns repeating uh in the actions of uh the perpetrators. And we came to the conclusion that we um have to dedicate a special section for the patterns and uh Olivia will elaborate on that. We identified 13 patterns of sexual and gender-based abuse. Uh leading us to the conclusion that this was not isolated violence. This was calculated violence.

[00:05:19]uh that the sexual violence of October 7th and in captivity was conducted uh in a calculated way as a strategy and um I want to stress with exceptional cruity.

[00:05:33]When I say exceptionalist cruelty, um we often felt that the violence was done to create really to maximize uh pain and suffering not only of the victims themselves but of family members, family members that uh had to witness the crimes either from u being direct witnesses or witnesses of the crimes for a far uh that had to see the videos that were sent. The report opens with the quote of Ricardo Luk, mother of Sheniluk, and her devastating testimonies of needing to see uh the body of her daughter, the body of Cheniluk, being taken almost naked into Gaza, her bodies disformed, surrounded by armed men, and the crowds in Gaza spitting on her body. And she shared the devastating moments that the family found out uh of her condition and the scream of of her son and really the pain that um that was involved in in this kind of in the tragedy of seeing her in this condition.

[00:06:43]We also concluded that this was a widespread and systematic violence and the report um I think hopefully as what we believe um creates a before and after a reality before and after in the way that we uh believe that it will now shift the conversation from question of whether this happened to questions of what are we going to do about it? What are the consequences?

[00:07:10]Um we faced so much uh denial over the past two years from I'm not even talking about instit about the um social media trolls. I'm talking about institutional denial about um very respected figures who said um that they are they don't believe that this has happened. So, we hope that at least now we can confront the reality uh in a way that will allow us to um address these crimes. I found myself saying last week and in the past couple of weeks that we cannot begin to confront what we don't know happened on what or or what we ignored or what we want to believe didn't happen. So um one of my mentors, Professor Erwin Cutotler, who has been really guiding us from the very beginning and our partners in this the Wallenburgg Center uh for human rights in Canada. One of the things Win told me from the very beginning sometimes these crimes are uh so unbelievable. They're so difficult to comprehend but it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. So I think we are moving this conversation in a way that I hope the report will not be a legal um exercise or academic exercise but really we want terror experts, national security experts uh prosecutors, investigators to study the findings to know what we have found to learn about the dynamics of sexual violence.

[00:08:43]Um and about that we found in the in the past two years really a gap uh in the public perception of these crimes a gap between the public perception of the crimes and the reality of sexual violence in conflict. And what I mean by addressing this gap is that sometimes people imagine sexual violence in conflict in a very different ways that what we have seen uh what we are seeing is um sorry about the I'll try not to be graphic but uh the mutilation of uh genital area sexual violence done in the most uh violent way post-mortem sexual violence uh burning of organs and again Olivia I will elaborate on that. But um I think many people we found are imagining very different things than the terrorizing and the humili humiliation uh involved in this uh in these crimes and the aims of the perpetrators when they are conducting this.

[00:09:47]Uh, another point that I want to stress is that often we felt we don't have enough words or legal definition to describe the reality of hell of prolonged sexual abuse that former hostages have described to us in their testimonies. So the report really shares a fraction of long testimonies that hostages have shared with us and that have shared publicly and um and I think we we found ourselves really thinking um together how can we express this? So it was I think we are we saw um we saw things that for us um as legal scholars it was hard to describe the reality of such a prolonged sexual violence and the reality and hell of living in this uh um in captivity under these conditions.

[00:10:46]Um, another thing about that that I wanted to share, I think one of the most important things for us is that the report provides a historical document that um, recognizes what happened, provides recognition. And with recognition to many of the survivors and the victims comes healing.

[00:11:07]Even for us as the authors of the report, we felt for so long that we know so much uh that the public doesn't know.

[00:11:15]So for us to know that it is now written that is it is now for the public to and for you know for many generations to for people to read this and for and and to know that the archive preserved this information in such a um rigorous way that will be will serve um for many years to come. I think it's uh it's important and we know that the report will serve as a tool. Uh already families and and survivors have contacted us and and said how they are going to take this and serve this to show this is what happened to me and it cannot be denied anymore. So I want to say that for us this is truly a meaningful moment and I think for all of us who fought against the denial of these crimes.

[00:12:05]Another thing that I want to share is that uh people often ask us how did you do this? How did you continue to do this work for so long and I want to say that uh first of all very few in the world have agreed to bear witness to these crimes especially in a systematic way.

[00:12:23]So I want to acknowledge uh Olivia Fleshier with us and the exceptional people in the civil commission that despite the difficulty and the trauma involved and and Olivia can share how difficult it was sometimes we just needed a break. Um these are very very violent and traumatizing materials. But the thing that kept us going is knowing that perhaps the sense of purposeness knowing that it matters. knowing that um I think that denial motivated us to to make sure the world knows and to give voice truly to those who cannot speak anymore. We understood that if we won't look at them, look at these bodies, describes what happened to them, image after image, testimony after testimony, we're not sure if anyone will ever do this work. So, um this is why we did this. This is what kept us going.

[00:13:19]Um, and lastly, I really want to thank all of you. All of you have participated, who supported us in so many ways, and I'm happy to uh to answer all of the questions that you have.

[00:13:34]>> Thank you so much, Kav. Um, the questions have already been streaming in and and we will get to them in due course. Uh, Olivia, uh, it's wonderful to have you with us. you you were involved in the writing of the report uh after the investigation stage. Could you weigh in on uh how the information that was gathered was processed by the civil commission and talk us also through the categories of the factual findings of the report.

[00:13:59]>> Yeah, absolutely. So, thank you Natasha as well for having me here again and thank you to Kohav as well for being here and for all of uh you for being here. Um, so I think I'd like to start off this part just to to give a little bit of a of context for the factual section. So we we structured the report into sort of two parts. Um, and the factual section is divided into a geographical uh part and then a thematic section.

[00:14:33]Um, now the reason we decided to do this is because it became very clear to us very early on when we started processing the testimonies and the uh visual materials that there were very striking similarities between the the cruelty and the um the acts committed across the different geographical locations as well as against um the hostages in captivity.

[00:15:02]So as Kohlab said um you know this was really exceptional cruelty. It was quite clear that the acts were done to maximize the pain and suffering. And so I remember um calling Khav uh early on in the in the process and telling her that I think for me it's so important that we really acknowledge the physical pain. Well, of course, the mental pain as well um of the victims and their families. And this is, you know, because you're sort of reading um these horrible testimonies of things that people witnessed and and it just doesn't seem real. And when you think about it one step further, you realize that somebody went through this. And so that is um quite difficult for one's brain to uh comprehend. And so for me it became very very important that we really emphasize that pain and suffering in the report.

[00:16:03]And I think that the civil commission and this report really manages to do that very well because we use the words of the survivors, the words of the of the victims um in the way that they described it to us. So you know we it was we couldn't sort of sugarcoat any of this. I mean it's so important that it it comes out there. exactly the way um the way that it was experienced and I felt this really immense responsibility um uh to to the victims to to portray this in that way. Um and the other thing I I want to emphasize is that it was very important for us to to make it clear that the type of abuse that was um committed on October 7th, it continued in captivity.

[00:16:53]um you know when we started writing the report there were still there were still hostages in Gaza and so as people came back um more and more stories started to surface and you know so that's that's something that this report really um contributes is is these stories from the hostages and the the amount of them um again across geographic locations uh in in captivity.

[00:17:21]So, so that's sort of how we decided to build uh and structure this this factual part. And as we were going through the materials, um we found these these 13 different patterns uh that Khava and Natasha have both mentioned. So, um that's that's quite extraordinary. 13 different patterns of of sexual and gender- based violence. And that, you know, again, I I am sorry for uh for saying um some of these graphic words. I appreciate that that it's uh awful to hear. But these patterns included uh things like rape uh gang rape um mutilation of faces of genitals um you know post-mortem desecration of bodies and also um sexual violence against uh boys and men. And why was it important for us to to write the geographic section as a separate part to the thematic section? Well, because in the thematic section, you really sort of it all comes together and that's important for the legal analysis that comes later, you know, because um patterns uh of crimes um that is what underpins when something is systematic.

[00:18:38]And so it became very clear to us that these were systematically committed uh sexual and gender- based crimes.

[00:18:47]The other thing I I really want to talk about is for me how striking it was to see the similarities with other atrocity situations in the past um that I've worked with or studied um Bosnia, Rwanda, um the ISIS crimes against the Yazidi community. And um you know it became so obvious that some of these same crimes were being mimicked. You know the worst sort of atrocity situations in history were being mimicked here. So that was that was a similarity but there were also differences and one of those main differences. What makes this so unprecedented was the digital dissemination of of the crimes. Um so this is also one of the 13 patterns that we discuss in the report.

[00:19:38]The sort of the the publicity around it that that you know the perpetrators really practiced and planned um how to inflict maximal terror by disseminating um you know what they've done online.

[00:19:57]um the the glorification and celebration of you know perpetrators, excuse me, standing over bodies and um and other um terrible things.

[00:20:10]So it was important to sort of raise this um but but what what what happened is we found ourselves in this ethical dilemma where you know these crimes had been disseminated online a lot of the times through the victim's own uh social media accounts. So the perpetrators would have taken their phones and and um really live streamed what they did to them on their own social media accounts. And then to to highlight this in the report, you know, we needed to tread carefully so as not to uh retraumatize.

[00:20:47]Um but we did we did get around this in in a in a way. So as sort of using um credible open-source uh reporting of the original events rather than sort of links to the videos themselves. Um, but also what we found when we were doing this was that it was a sort of way of taking back control over this digital dissemination of the of the crimes that were, you know, done in such a horrible way with a purpose of inflicting terror. Whereas this felt in a way to sort of give that narrative back to the to the victims. And same with the with the testimonies, the sort of regaining of control um over their stories.

[00:21:37]So, uh, I'm going to give it back to Khav in just a second, but I I did want to emphasize, you know, this this was truly an international event. There were 52 nationalities of victims. We want to make it clear that this is not just an Israeli issue. This is something that um is very important for all those countries whose victims uh whose nationals were were part of the victims to understand that this happened, to take this forward. and we're hoping that our um our archive and and uh the database we've created can serve as a starting point for that. So I'll give this back to Kohab now. Thank you >> Olivia. Thank you very much um especially for emphasizing the the international um flavor of of the atrocities. There have been many questions already on the international impact of the report. So so we'll come on to that certainly. Um but Kav could I before we get to the uh the questions um could I ask you you spoke about the impact of this report um in terms of you know what will be coming out of it.

[00:22:44]There are very practical recommendations proposals uh that are included in the report. Could you take us through some of those and um outline what your hopes are now that this work is in the public domain?

[00:22:57]>> Sure. Um first of all I want to add uh to the excellent presentation of Olivia uh that the report also highlights uh kinocidal sexual violence. Kenocidal sexual violence is a term that we um coined to describe to describe the uh use of sexual violence uh in front of family members and the way it amplifies suffering and pain in in as as I said in ways that should develop international law that should develop different uh legal um responses to these crimes. So I want to encourage you to search for the word kinoide or kinocidal sexual violence within the report. Uh we also refer to our previous report on this subject and only this week I um participated in um court hearing together with the Idan family in Israel that um as Olivia said the perpetrators broke into their the terrorist entered their house, took the the uh phone of the mother and started filming the entire um the entire events where you see the father. His h hands are covered with blood. Um his uh eldest daughter, Mayan, was just murdered. So they're filming him. They're filming the mother screaming, "This didn't happen. This didn't happen." And to the little siblings that are crying on the floor.

[00:24:31]So this is truly if there is hell, um this is what it looks like. Someone abusing your loved ones and someone uh creating such um you know, it's one thing to know that you lost a loved one.

[00:24:42]It's another thing to witness it. And I think um the fact that they used um documentation, the filming of this on the one hand for us as scholars, as legal experts, it allowed us, I say I often say a window to hell. It's very different to see this and to experience this bodily like with your um I want to explain this. Um we have seen everything. We have seen so much and the videos that made us feel that we are uh devastated to our core was uh were those of the families were those where they filmed families and we felt physically unable to document this. We had to stop the uh the analysis. We had to stop the videos. So I think it's important for me to highlight um this kind of uh violence and we in the previous report with the R Wallenburgg center for human rights we um we also highlight the global context other atrocities that um that um show similar patterns of violence. So that's that and about the legal implications of this report again only it's publication now like I want to say that the publication in itself for uh I think is an act of justice is an important part of uh of putting this um piece of uh one of um how would I say it like I'll say it differently one of the professors professor Aon Barak who wrote the forward for the report, the former um the former president of the Israeli Supreme Court said to us, you know, uh no single prosecution could ever reflect the magnitude and the scope of the violence in a similar way that this report can. Even in the Holocaust, when we prosecuted after the Holocaust Nazis, uh he said you could only tie them to a single event, but the report does this important work. um in the way that it's it it will be even beyond any single uh legal proceeding. So I want to emphasize that and the contribution in in in the way that it reflects the the entirety or not even the entirety yet of all the uh events because I want to emphasize that more hostages will speak in the future.

[00:27:16]More information will emerge. So that's about that. Um another thing we we believe it is important for all of us all the audience here uh us as a commission to take the report and make sure parliaments around the world uh recognize its finding find ways to uh either through statements through adoption resolutions take the report and create congressional hearings parliament hearings. We are now um in conversations with a few countries of how they can uh recognize what happened to their victims to victims that belong to their country through the adoption of uh of the crimes and also fight the denial of this these crimes and um confront the implications of how uh of the crimes that the report reveals. So uh parliament recognition is one of the uh recommendations of this this the report. Another thing that is important for us is that terror experts, counterterrorism bodies, counterterrorisms, uh, counterterrorism organizations around the world will uh, study the report will use it to understand evolving the evolving nature of the of sexual I want to say um, sexual violence linked to terrorism.

[00:28:41]Um it took us a while to understand that while we are watching these videos and feeling horrified, other um terrorist organizations around the world are watching these videos and are actually inspired, deeply inspired by uh the amount of suffering that it creates, especially when you circulate these videos. And many people only think of the videos that were published on October 7th. But I want to remind all of us that for many months uh as long as the hostages were in captivity, Kamas released more and more videos showing the devastated um the devastating um statements of hostages that were in captivity. Uh really tornamenting the families and the entire society with these videos. For many months they released more and more videos. Some of these videos um that are not publicly known actually show bodies of hostages. For instance, we are now um helping one of the families uh that the Katil family that kamas sent videos of Katil of his body after he was buried in Israel. After he was brought to burial from is in Israel, they released videos of his body. Um we um mentioned in the report Noah Maritziano her father just spoke in the Israeli parliament a couple of weeks ago and he said um he mentions the video of his daughter 19year-old Noah Martiano.

[00:30:16]You see her begging for her life like pleading and and mentioning her name and and then the end of the video they show her body. So he describes how he already had two heart attacks and he called me after uh hearing me on the news and told me you know Kav I now that uh I heard you saying that this is a different crime the fact they had us witness our loved ones um in this condition. I understand that I'm not crazy. I understand that I've been living in this hell that no one understood.

[00:30:49]So uh I do want to mention mention that and the fact that it's important that terror experts learn a national security expert study this report and I do believe the report will become a tool whether for academia whether uh for people in the academia whether for experts in the in the field of um um of gender- based violence of history of Holocaust um you know genocide studies we do believe this will the uh it could provide it could be a tool for many around the world and for survivors themselves and families that will submit it in courts. Will we are sure similar to the previous report that it will be submitted in courts around the world. Uh it could be in in domestic uh procedures or uh international uh platforms.

[00:31:40]So that's about what we anticipate will happen in the with the report. Now >> kab thank you. Um many questions um have been asking what impact you've already seen. I know the report was only published on on the 12th of May. Um you have of course been talking about many of these issues throughout the compilation of this report. In fact, we've previously done um a webinar on Kenocide um with UK lawyers for Israel Charitable Trust um this new uh crime that that you defined through the process of the meticulous work that you've undertaken. Um so what impact have you seen so far and what have the responses been internationally uh both to the work of the commission and now to the publication of the report.

[00:32:25]So we're actually the publication of the report received coverage that uh exceeded all of our expectation.

[00:32:33]I think uh it was it was published around the world, front page coverage in many in many countries um in in ways that as I said we do believe it creates such a it created such a such a substantial uh evidentiary foundation that we did see the shift in the questions that have been asked like this is it. This is um the crimes cannot be denied. Um again, so it could be denied by social media trolls as similar to how the Holocaust is being denied by different uh people from the margins of society. But I do believe that legal scholars will and and people from you know the more of the professional um arena will not participate this uh in this uh anymore. And um we I want to mention that we have uh as the endorsers of the report as I said professor um clutter professor Awan Barak professor um David Crane was the former uh chief of the um of the UN tribunal in Sierra Leon um and public figures that have endorsed the report and I think um it shows of its global impact. uh it has been endorsed and supported since by senators and parliament members around the world uh in Europe across Europe and the United States. Having said that, uh I do believe there is um more that could come out of this. Um and I look at you guys that I don't see uh each of you but I do believe it will create now um a basis for conversations um either more professional conversations more you know it's when I say that one of the surprising things that happened that many people that have fought for the recognition of these crimes felt that um it brought an end to their struggle. it like now they can um you know human rights activists women's rights activists have written to us and said thank you so much now we can now we know that we don't we don't need to fight uh but we just need to uh provide memory for these uh for for for what happened or you know kind of it it as I said it creates a new reality so I can't I don't know uh everything that will happen now. I just know that it made um it already made a huge contribution in the way even the you know the the inner uh feeling that people had that they need to fight for the truth of this and now um it cannot be denied.

[00:35:31]Um, so just picking up on on a couple of these questions. Um, I fully appreciate the internet trolls aside and there have been a number of references to the tsunami of of Nicholas Kristoff type articles um alleging sexual assault in in the other direction. the timing of which of course um seems inextricably linked with the publication of your report um and and perhaps um an indication of how powerful this report was anticipated to be uh that this um this clear campaign was launched um just before its publication uh date. Um but that aside in relation to the experts that you've referenced the official bodies um has there been a shift in a recognition? One questioner here asks about um what to do for instance when the UN special raptor Franchesca Albanes um still asserts that there's no evidence of rape on the 7th of October.

[00:36:29]Um asserts also that this is a lie that they see repeated in many feminist spaces. Um so has there been an impact already in respect of official bodies um organizations at the United Nations?

[00:36:43]What has the response been there?

[00:36:45]>> So we've had the um first of all people like Francesca Albanese I think they don't deserve our response. I think history history will um will judge their actions as well as more current um you know those who are fighting whatever she spreads around the world. So we have had the privilege of presenting the report to the team of the special UN reperator on uh sexual violence in conflict. We will be sending we already sent the report to um dozens of UN uh entities uh the day that it was released and we will continue uh and engage with different international actors on the findings of this report. I can tell you that from the very beginning, our strategy, our strategy was to um was to communicate with those who want to act on it was to um when I say those who wanted to to help, those who believe, those who knew that we instead of uh uh joining the denial, the need to fight it. So we have been in touch with many um public figures around the world, parliament members again uh from different countries that have taken upon themselves and even this morning we had a conversation with Isabel Rome um the France uh France's um ambassador for human rights and others that are going that see this report as a crucial document uh to study to um recognize and to make sure uh it it becomes a part of the history of these crimes.

[00:38:31]If >> I if I can add something very quickly, um this is also where people like uh like the the people listening to this webinar come in. You know, um we're we're hoping that if uh that you can circulate it as well to to your networks. um you know if you feel that this is an important report um and and and that it's worth sharing which we certainly feel then sharing it with your network circulating it around you know Europe uh the UK wherever you're based um is is the best way to to contribute.

[00:39:07]Olivia, following up on that, um, one questioner asks about whether the report had access to more information than previous reports, um, on the 7th of October sexual violence, um, such as the report from the United Nations.

[00:39:21]Certainly, from the description of the volume of data and material uh, that you and and the co-authors reviewed, it seems um, that you certainly did. could you speak to the categories of that evidence and how it compares with other studies?

[00:39:38]>> So, I'll begin and then Olivia, I'll turn it to you. Um, I'll say that the report builds on previous findings. It builds on previous reports. We actually Olivia and the team of the commission really screened every report whether it was in the media uh or in um um by UN entities or credible sources uh that have shared or reported the sexual violence of October 7. So we build and it actually was one of our ways to for instance if we have a video uh in our archive that was described by the UN special operator a special representative or by um human rights watch or by amnesty we made sure that the description in amnesty uh is also referenced. So we have of course uh everything that was reported and of and more that we collected in in the past two years. Of course more information emerges even today. I want to say that right before the publication of the report, Albelia spoke up. Albia, former hostage Jarbell Hood said uh she spoke so briefly, but she said something that is so painful that the sexual violence that she experienced was from the beginning to the end and that it's now sealed in a suitcase uh forever. and she said it in a way that uh you know the report was already um on very final stages and we decided to of course to add this. So we build um on on the information that was already reported on um the images videos that were collected on videos and sorry on testimonies that we filmed. And when you create a safe space uh with trauma expert for a victims or a survivor to speak um I want to say that it created um a way to hear so much more um and as I said more will be revealed in the future. So uh this is the kind of work that we've done and each and every image was also that we uh describe was also described by three forensic experts uh in a very extensive process for them to describe it in the most you know e um accurate medical way. So as Olivia I'm turning it to you as well.

[00:42:04]>> Yes. Um well I would also add that you know there's a lot of discussion uh in the international criminal law community that um when you have organizations on the ground where the crimes actually took place where the victims are located it's far um let's say easier for lack of a better word to collect the evidence and to uh be there and to speak the same language as the victims. And I think um you know that's one of the benefits that the civil commission had compared to let's say UN reports or um or amnesty or other international organizations that um you know they were right on the ground. Um and so I do think that that contributed to having access to more information and also the trust between the victims and and uh the civil commission um and their families and all the work that the civil commission has done over the past few years with those families. Um, so yes, I think that's uh an important contribution, but also the fact that uh our report was released after the last remaining uh living hostages came back. So we were of course privy to um additional information coming back from those released hostages that perhaps previous reports um didn't have access to.

[00:43:17]And Olivia, just picking up on on something that you mentioned in your initial presentation, the um dissemination of uh the evidence of these atrocities by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists themselves uh was such a fundamental part of this. Is there any sense or argument in which even the process of compiling this report has in some way contributed to that uh to continuing to disseminate um the the horror and to um inflicting that same mental um harm uh on a much broader impact? Is that perhaps just a necessary evil of completing this important report? Does the uh taking back of control that you referenced um negate that entirely? What what's your feeling in respect of um the you know the negative aspects perhaps of having this trauma um relived not just for those that suffered it um either uh in the first instance or or family members but also you know broader members of of the Jewish community who may feel um very much um targeted by the the uh in the intent uh behind the atrocities that were committed.

[00:44:35]So perhaps I'll just answer very quickly my thought process on it and then I'll give it over to Kohav who has a lot more experience with this as well. Um but my feeling is like I said before that this was something that we actively considered throughout the report and it was very very important for us not to contribute to the negativity of the digital dissemination as you say. So, we were very careful when um when describing the event to not uh include um you know the lines to the actual perpetrators uh dissemination, but rather to reports about it that had been approved by the victim's families um and and sort of refer to uh credible reporting that didn't have the distressing images or videos in them rather than the videos themselves. But because it was quite a long process, I'll I'll hand it over to Kohav to explain more.

[00:45:29]I think you explained it perfectly and I think it is fascinating to read the methodology section. We followed the most uh really strict protocols of reporting and we had hours of um conversations with experts around the world, prosecutors of sexual violence and um I think we confronted together the ethical dilemmas of how to do this work. I think every word in the report was uh thought of every paragraph. You wouldn't believe the kind of um um how do you say the way that we know each and every part of the report and thought of uh of every footnote that we included and the way it uh it substantiates the information and doesn't unnecessarily creates more harm. And in the methodology section, we describe the ethical dilemma. Uh since we have the videos or we have the links uh in some cases of the original um of the original uh video. Um it was a dilemma whether to share this and then we decided um that as as Olivia said to include credible reports of this. For instance, as I said, if Amnesty International reported and thoroughly described the video that they have and that we have, we als we described the video and included Amnesty's description. So this is how we balanced between the difficulty of the materials and also to show to uh not to just say we have a certain video um archived with us but to uh create such a transparency um transparency and credibility throughout the process of reporting on this in the best way that we could under the circumstances. And as Olivia said, we um we had a whole process of consent of those who uh provided testimony and uh and shared it with the commission.

[00:47:35]>> Kav, you've mentioned the importance of counterterror experts reviewing this report, understanding the enormity of of these atrocities. There are a number of questions that have been raised about the recognition of Hamas as a terrorist organization. Um have you seen uh any particular impact from this report? Is is that particular motivation uh to showcasing this level of atrocity? Um and one particular questioner asks about the recognition of Hamas um by Honduras whether that if you're aware had any um this report had any impact on on that recognition or more broadly. I think this is the impact that we anticipate will happen and will continue to happen not only thanks to our report but thanks to uh other reports as well. I want to mention that it's not only kamas. The report outlines in the legal section uh other um organizations that were involved and not only the organizations, leaders that are now hiding in different countries, um leaders that will emerge, leaders of Kamas that were involved in the October 7th attack and are are currently unknown to the public, but it will happen and we do believe uh it is important that states will prosecute the crimes, find the perpetrators. um um and also sanctions different sanction different organizations and individuals that were involved in the attack. Um I mentioned expert terror experts because um I've been invited to present this in you know in feminist circles and um and I I it's important for us that it would won't be a feminist exercise as I said or some kind of of a report that is studies studied only by by those who are interested in sexual violence in conflict because it really presents or reflects um evil and terrorism at its worst and if it stays within only within those academic circles then we failed all of us as a society. So I I do want to stress the importance that it will be studied and also um one thing that we didn't mention yet is that the sexual violence was committed against men and women and also cases that the report documents against minors. And so I want to emphasize that this is uh something that should uh concern us as a society um in many many uh under many many you know professional that that should address uh the findings of the report.

[00:50:18]Um one question raises that kamas apologists frequently say things like well sexual violence happens in every war and asks how to answer that comment.

[00:50:29]Is there apart from of course the the characteristics that you've described of this system systemic uh this calculated uh deployment of of these tactics and also of the social media um and electronic dissemination?

[00:50:44]Other than those aspects, is there a defining characteristic here that you do feel is different to other conflicts, other instances?

[00:50:55]Um I as I as we shared I think um the report the fact that we've seen striking similarities as you read the factual section the geographic um description of the crimes. It kind of strikes you that the similarities of how they conducted this. the fact that it was as I said calculated the fact that they didn't stop on October 7 that continued in captivity and you see the you know the continuum from the very beginning. So um I don't see any relevance or any um particular interest in responding to kamas. Um but um if someone wants to uh refer to the systemicity I think the patterns uh really highlight the fact that this was a a very calculated strategy >> sorry >> sorry Natasha this just something I wanted to add to that um so I completely agree with what K have just said and I think that um you know what does distinguish this is what we've talked about before the the real sort of deliberate cruel cruelty and maximization of pain and the fact that this wasn't sort of uh you know some some random rogue soldier that that you know did something horrible. This was a calculated um mass uh mass effort really from uh across the geographical locations and continuing against the hostages in captivity. But the other thing I would say is that the problem with sexual and gender- based crimes is that they're often minimized in the way that that you said that these sort of um Hamas apologists describe, you know, oh, this happens everywhere, whatever. Um, and I think this is this is actually part of the problem that in many past conflict situations because people were also murdered um if they were raped as well, then that was sort of hidden under the rug and not sort of formed part of the proceedings. And I think part of what we're trying to do with this report is really emphasize that it it happened to such a horrible extent and that it it deserves you know um a prosecution on its own. Um so >> and I want to add to that that um we tried in this webinar not to get into the graphics but the report is really uh the opposite of that. We really described in uh in in detail how sexual violence how the sexual violence looked like, how bodies were found, how uh they were abused in ways that um again um we try to avoid this in this webinar to allow the maximum audience. But I think um whereas I often say that the general public I do want to spare them the the terrorizing effect of of bearing witness to these crimes.

[00:53:55]Um, for the professional audience, those of us who h are in position of power uh of of some kind either in parliament, either in in legal circles, either in circles of counterterrorism organizations, you have an obligation to read this, read this thoroughly, study how this was done in a way that it it cannot stay with us. You have to bear witness to what happened. Um I I can't urge uh urge it uh more and um >> yeah what I can say certainly what the report does convey is the the systematic nature and the use of this abuse as this weapon of awe um rather than being incidental to this was the very purpose of the humiliation of the uh extraction of of um this extreme pain as as you've described and I think that's only possible through the meticulous um chronicling of the the detail of these individual instances but it's through that that you you see these sorts of patterns emerge so >> and I also want to mention if that's okay Natasha that for instance we found um that women were shot in their faces again and again and again and um one of the most difficult testimonies that stays with you you know it's sometimes it's not the video that stays only only the video that stays in your head. Uh it's sometimes the words of a survivor.

[00:55:27]So the words of Fagam Goldstein al-Mog of how her beautiful sister while they were taken hostage from their home after they witnessed their dad being uh murdered. They were taken out uh her and her brothers and sisters with her mother and then they shot uh their eldest sister in the face. And she describes her beauty and uh how beautiful she was.

[00:55:53]She was and how they shot her in the face. And then you uh you you get to read those who uh prepare the bodies for uh for burial and you see how they describe these beautiful young women being shot in the face or their face mutilated or abused in some way that it's kind of um it's it's really difficult to read. So I want to say uh this is kind of what we are trying to convey that it was sexual violence or gender- based violence that was done in a way that um is uh is important for us uh that that people will see it really erased women's personhood in the worst way possible.

[00:56:38]Um there I I appreciate your your emphasis on the broader audience for this report. um the impact on international policy on uh human rights organizations. But there have been so many questions with respect to the feminist response uh and the response both to what happened on the 7th of October in feminist circles and and potentially the response uh to this report that I do want to touch on that um just in the last few minutes of this exchange. Um Kav one questioner from a group called feminists against anti-semitism which was formed in the aftermath um of the feminist silence on this issue um mentions what looks like a concerted effort that was made to subvert feminism away from the events of the 7th of October um and asks what we can do. Um and just bearing that in mind, there are so many questions that have come through on this topic of of how to communicate um specifically to these groups given the hypocrisy and the real sense of betrayal that so many um both members of these groups and and and also more broadly in in in audiences um that they feel as a result of the minimization uh and the denial um amongst those groups that were specifically orientated to focus on exactly these crimes. So, do you have any words of advice in the final few minutes in relation to that >> audience in particular?

[00:58:05]>> I I want to share my personal experience if that's okay.

[00:58:09]>> First of all, to recognize the pain in that in the fact that it was denied by those who we felt uh should be the first to recognize this these crimes, the first to respond.

[00:58:20]I I need to share that uh I teach feminist theory. I teach the feminist theory in international law and I had to continue teaching it even when uh certain organizations within the UN uh have stayed silent despite many communications that we've made from the very beginning and I'm I even feel you know there were points that I felt so angry that we need to do this work uh that they sent us to this journey uh to what is I believe a second form of violence against the victims, against those who have been silenced. And for me, it felt like everything that I believed in is kind of um they say collapsing or I I'm not sure what to believe anymore. Where am I situated in this intellectual world that I saw myself within it and and that I need to continue and teach it? I found myself in this situation that you know you choose when you teach a subject this is the subject that you're most passionate about and that you need to convey this passion to the next generations of researchers and and um and students and what kept me strong uh are two things one um I I do believe in that uh in the ideas that we taught for so many years that we taught our our students. I wanted uh to to feel that I I stay firm in my belief this is important that uh this goes against you know the denial goes against everything we have fought for as a feminist movement and then the second thing was to find uh our friends our feminist organizations women's rights organizations um female you know leaders around the world who care and that wanted to show support And it was um really I found so many who wanted to express solidarity who felt that they want to support us in any way possible. So I do want to recognize those who uh despite the difficulty for instance u when I mentioned Selen Bald and other uh scholars that despite the difficulty were brave enough to uh raise their voices and to those who continue to deny it I don't I'm My my belief is that um I'm not sure that they worth it if they go against their own uh values. Uh I want to say that let's focus.

[01:01:00]You know what? I'm I'm not sure I'm best positioned. This is what kept us going.

[01:01:04]You know, I I I couldn't face uh those who are uh viciously continue to deny it. We we felt we need those because of the nature of what we do of of those who can uh you know who can help us. Um it was difficult as it was.

[01:01:22]So we needed to find uh our moral allies if that makes sense. Um and then create conversations with them. Uh those are were the most uh the most sorry the most memorable events and and meetings that and conversations that I had um that I came and we share our report and we shared our findings and we shared the kind of work that we we're doing with um with with many women's rights circles around the world and um I want to mention victims uh from the Yazidi community we met with um those who are continuing continuing to fight this in in the Middle East region uh the Darus community and uh and others that we felt like we are uh standing together against this uh kind of violence.

[01:02:13]I don't know if it makes sense or if it's >> it certainly does and it's so important that that aspect of the report that challenges the denial and and deals with the narrative and the false narratives here. Um there's been a flurry of additional questions uh which which I do now want to end on on a slightly more practical aspect. Um because of course this is a a meticulously um researched uh put together with um tried and tested uh procedures of um compiling evidence, preserving evidence so that it can be used in legal proceedings. And there have certainly been questions in relation to those that have been complicit through incitement, financing, facilitation, amplification, other forms of material support um asking how they can be prosecuted, whether this report can helpfully contribute to that and many more questions that have been popping up specifically with respect to uh Iranian involvement, Iranian influence. Um so both in terms of the individual responsibility but also state responsibility perhaps. um you could both briefly comment on on that and the practical um implications of the work that you've done.

[01:03:23]>> Yes. So certainly the legal analysis uh of the report uh highlights um the direct perpetrators, co-petrators uh those who amplify the crimes and the the um either individual criminal responsibility and state responsibility for these crimes. We try to highlight precedents and best uh best practices around the world on prosecuting these crimes. We used the Ukrainian uh test case uh as as a as a way case study, sorry, as a way to show um that these crimes can be prosecuted, not only in uh the Ukraine case, but other countries how these uh crimes have been prosecuted, what prosecuted, what can be done. And we also refer to uh those who are held um um in Israel and how the prosecution in Israel should um address these crimes. But I I want to emphasize here that this is not just the responsibility of the state of Israel.

[01:04:25]It is the responsibility of all the states that had um and the international community to prosecute this. Um and as you mentioned not only of the direct perpetrators but also those who amplified the crimes incited for these crimes maybe I can say that um after doing this work for so long um I do believe this kind of this is kind of um I'm not sure what's the word for a race where you uh turn the torch to the next one to carry. So I do believe this is the time for us to you know to we we've done this work. It is uh done in the most in the highest um legal standards in ways that it could be used in different legal um proceedings as I said domestically and internationally.

[01:05:17]So we believe that uh now others can carry this and and continue the prosecution in different forms and I have no doubt um it will be used uh around the world for these purposes.

[01:05:31]Kam, I can certainly tell you that that you and Olivia have very much passed the baton um on uh in in what is ultimately this this relay race, this ongoing fight against the perpetrators of these sorts of atrocities. Uh and this is a milestone in that ongoing race and that ongoing battle. I hope you've had the opportunity to look at some of the um comments in the chat. There is such an outpouring of thanks to you, Olivia, and the other authors of this report um for what I can only describe as an immense personal sacrifice of your own well-being in many of these instances and having to be um on the front lines of reviewing this material. We we hear so much about the first responders on the 7th of October uh and those that were witnessed to these atrocities. you have through this collective work uh had to play an important role in that continuation of bearing witness. Our audience um is likewise um picking up that baton. So, thank you all of you for your incredible work on this. I look forward to seeing the practical uh implications, practical results and and um very important ongoing work from this report. Uh and I'm sure that we will be back in due course to discuss exactly that. Thank you both ever so much.

[01:06:52]>> Thank you so much.

[01:06:53]>> Thank you.