The Science of Weed (Again) | Sci Guys Podcast #300

Añadido: 2026-05-21

[00:00:07]Hello and welcome to Syuise, the show where we talk about the crazy, weird, and wonderful stories from the science world. I'm Corey and as always, I'm joined by my co-host, the lit up Luke Cuter.

[00:00:18]>> Yeah, man.

[00:00:29]This week we're talking about smoky science and curative cannabis. But first, I've got a question for you.

[00:00:34]>> Go ahead. Sorry, I'm too baked to listen. But go ahead anyway.

[00:00:38]>> I love that you realize you could make a joke halfway through and didn't start again.

[00:00:41]>> I'm just so high, man. Takes a while.

[00:00:43]I'm a little bit behind.

[00:00:44]>> Been the issue for every episode since we went to Amsterdam, right? [laughter] You've just never come down.

[00:00:48]>> No. No. Not the way I want to.

[00:00:50]>> So, have you had marijuana? And has it helped your mental health?

[00:00:53]>> Yes. No, not yes and no. Yes and no.

[00:00:57]Yes, the first question. Second question, no.

[00:00:59]>> What has helped your mental health though?

[00:01:00]>> Very little. [laughter] >> And if we were to quantify the health of your mental state, >> how would we do that?

[00:01:09]>> Sleepy as hell >> or very little.

[00:01:11]>> Very little.

[00:01:12]>> Very little mental health. I'll say this though. Look, I'll say this before we actually get into the topic of today. I want to talk about mental health. And specifically, I want to talk, I guess, somewhat semantically about how people use the phrase mental health.

[00:01:27]>> Mhm. To mean like having a bath.

[00:01:28]>> No, they mean mental health as in like they say mental health meaning mental illness, you know, like or do you have mental health? I do have mental health because I'm mentally healthy. Yes.

[00:01:37]>> Do you have physical health, Luke?

[00:01:39]>> I feel like that happened in like a major political speech recently. I can't remember where it was, but it was something like something along the lines of like um this this government uh is stands firmly against mental health or like no >> I mean yes actually technically if you think about it but no you should be in support of it.

[00:01:56]>> We're fighting against mental health.

[00:01:57]>> That's it. Fighting against mental health. If people say like oh are you dealing with mental health?

[00:02:01]>> Yes.

[00:02:01]>> Yes. Everyone is >> I wish [laughter] >> everyone like mental health is just the healthiness of your mental state like are you dealing with physical health?

[00:02:10]>> Yes. I deal in physical health. Yes.

[00:02:11]>> But that's the thing, right? It like people just don't seem to be able to understand that like mental health and physical health should be used in the exact same way.

[00:02:21]>> Yeah.

[00:02:22]>> Like grammatically speaking and like in sentences like they they are the same.

[00:02:27]They're the same exact thing. They're the same kind of word.

[00:02:29]>> What does that say about their mental health, Cory?

[00:02:31]>> It says less about their mental health and more about their I suppose mental cognition.

[00:02:37]>> Yeah. Okay. Language. [laughter] >> Very little. Oh dear. But the headline that drew me into this, Luke, uh was huge study finds no evidence cannabis helps anxiety, depression, or PTSD. And I didn't just see the headline. I saw a funny tweet from Contra Points. And uh that was that was how I saw this and I was like, "Oh, weed doesn't help anxiety, depression, or PTSD. Let's have a look into this because a lot of a lot of both leads are going to be upset."

[00:03:04]>> Are you telling me that sometimes the headline doesn't accurately represent represent the scientific study, Cory?

[00:03:08]>> I'm telling you nothing, Luke. I'm telling you the headline I read may not accurately represent what's even in the body of the No.

[00:03:15]>> Is it actually a study of like one person and then they printed it really huge?

[00:03:20]>> Yeah, it's just the biggest study ever printed >> or they like used AI and then they wrote like a thousand pages >> massive font. No, so this this was a Science Daily article and I've gone and find the original study. Um well, we could get into Yeah. Well, I'll say this. So the study is called the efficacy and safety of cannabonoids for the treatment of mental disorders and substance use disorders. A systematic review and metaanalysis. So it's a review and meta analysis. They've not done any actual studying.

[00:03:48]>> They've done more work than we do. They actually at least use maths. I just kind of I I copy and paste and then I I regurgitate.

[00:03:56]>> But it's not new science. It's just looking at old science bar real hard and lots of it.

[00:03:59]>> Yeah. Yeah. looking at uh science from God 8 198. So nice that he's involved finally.

[00:04:05]>> God science. Yeah.

[00:04:06]>> He was it was against science for hundreds of years but he's finally cottoned on.

[00:04:09]>> The thing is God was always somewhat pro-science. It just depends on the kind of science that you're doing. Do you know what I mean? It's got to be handinand with God. By which I mean it's got to be anti-weed. God hates weed. Do whatever it else it is that you want.

[00:04:23]You know those fig leaves that they were wearing?

[00:04:25]>> Yes.

[00:04:25]>> They weren't fig leaves. Luke.

[00:04:27]>> Okay.

[00:04:28]>> They were marijuana leaves. Oh, that really changes the context of last week where I was going to be Adam.

[00:04:34]>> Next week.

[00:04:35]>> Next week. Yes. I don't know schedules.

[00:04:37]>> This is our 300th episode. Luke, >> happy birthday.

[00:04:39]>> No, that was [snorts] some weeks ago.

[00:04:42]>> Yes, indeed.

[00:04:42]>> This is just a round number.

[00:04:44]>> I'm sorry I'm so high. Time is an illusion. [laughter] >> I feel there's going to be a running theme for you this episode >> and and indeed my life. [laughter] >> Um, no. So, the this Yeah. from 1980 to 2025. They looked at studies from January 1st, 1980 to May 13th.

[00:05:02][laughter] >> Sorry.

[00:05:04]>> So, the study was published April 2026.

[00:05:07]>> When they finished up, they wrote it pretty quick, but they were looking for for a real long time.

[00:05:11]>> They were looking from those dates.

[00:05:12]>> Yeah, I know. That's what I said.

[00:05:14]>> I want to give it to you, right? I want to give this one to you, but it doesn't really scan.

[00:05:17]>> Okay.

[00:05:17]>> Good effort, though.

[00:05:18]>> Maybe more study is needed. Maybe if you look at it for 45 years, it'll you it'll land.

[00:05:22]>> Don't know if I'm going to live 45 more years.

[00:05:24]I'm being perfectly honest with you.

[00:05:26]That seems like a slog. [laughter] >> Really? 45 years? You're not that old.

[00:05:30]You're what? 40?

[00:05:32]>> I'm I'm kidding.

[00:05:34]>> Oh, are you? Thank you. I would never have known had you not said >> I know you're younger than me.

[00:05:38]>> Yeah. And you're like what? 50.

[00:05:40]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> No. So, uh, published April 2026 in the Lancet. Lots of authors. Lots and lots and lots. Jack Wilson, PhD.

[00:05:48]>> Jacqueline Wilson.

[00:05:49]>> Nope. Just Jack.

[00:05:50]>> From Tracy Mika to She's transitioned.

[00:05:52]Congratulations.

[00:05:53]>> Did Jacqueline Wilson do Tracy Beaker?

[00:05:55]Is that where Tracy?

[00:05:56]>> I hope not. She wrote it. I hope she didn't do her. [laughter] Sorry, >> she's not real. Cory, >> you take one booster and suddenly you're in silly boy mode. So, uh, Wilson J at Al.

[00:06:07]>> Okay, so it could be Jaclyn Wilson.

[00:06:08]>> The two greatest words. No, it's Jack Wilson. I said this. G J A CK.

[00:06:12]>> Jaclyn Wilson and her friend Al.

[00:06:14]>> Look, for once, we're talking about a man. Okay. A man's work.

[00:06:17]>> Finally, a man in science.

[00:06:19]>> I know, right? There's just not enough boys. [laughter] It's a bit of a girls club.

[00:06:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:24]>> There's Mary Cury >> and >> the other one >> that Sally Ride.

[00:06:31]>> Sally Ride.

[00:06:32]>> She wants to space >> that science.

[00:06:33]>> Neil Degrass Tyson a woman.

[00:06:34]>> Maybe now >> at this rate with the liberal agenda.

[00:06:38][laughter] >> Sorry.

[00:06:39]>> Yes. The liberal woke agenda. All of it culminating in transitioning Neil Degrass Tyson.

[00:06:44]>> That's the master plan. Cory.

[00:06:45]>> More like she she >> shield Tyson.

[00:06:50]>> Yep. Yeah. Sorry. I just wanted to do a little bit there where I'm a where I'm a big old righty. Let's go.

[00:06:56]>> Nothing's better than a bit that is immediately clarified.

[00:07:00]>> Just really I was like that was fun but only if you know I'm joking. Joking.

[00:07:04]Double joking.

[00:07:04]>> Yeah. I suppose the smile on your face the entire wealth of history on the podcast isn't enough.

[00:07:10]>> Listen Cory, a 15 year career on the internet has made me very anxious.

[00:07:14]>> I [laughter] think there's something else in there in the mix too. I don't know.

[00:07:17]>> My mental health. All of that mental health I have. mental health you're dealing with. There's so much mental do you know what? Mental health is one of the biggest problems that we're dealing with nowadays.

[00:07:25]>> And I have mental health for breakfast, Cory.

[00:07:27]>> Oh my bloody god. I'm going to choke you out and then you're going to be dealing with physical health.

[00:07:32]>> Okay. Well, finally a distraction from all this mental health.

[00:07:34]>> Christ. So, the aim of the study >> Oh, goodness me.

[00:07:39]>> The aim of the study was mental disorders and substance use disorders are among >> What's his accent going to?

[00:07:45]>> It's going to my accent. It was a transitional accent. It's because of all the we I'm getting a a contact high from you. Um are among the leading reasons for which uh the medical use of cannabonoids has been approved but their efficacy and safety in treating these conditions is yet to be established. So they conducted a systematic review and meta analysis of randomized control trials testing the efficacy and safety of cannabonoids as the primary treatment for mental disorders or substance use disorders.

[00:08:10]So, >> the aim of the study is essentially look at a bunch of papers that have looked at how cannabis or cannabonoids really um are are used to treat mental health disorders >> and check if they're any good.

[00:08:24]>> Do they work? We don't know. We'll find out. That's that's what the that's what the aim was.

[00:08:28]>> Mhm.

[00:08:29]>> And uh before we do that, we need to really quickly go over how weed works.

[00:08:32]How does weed work? What is weeds?

[00:08:33]>> Weed contains well lots of stuff. bunch of weed, but also uh THC and CBD.

[00:08:39]>> Let's not get in the weeds with this.

[00:08:40]>> Oh, okay. Well, I'm not in the weeds.

[00:08:42]I'm in the THC and CBD. There's only two little things to remember. Uh two chemicals. One's make one makes you loopy and the other one makes you chill and together they hopefully balance each other out and they just get a nice mellow high, but often that doesn't happen because weed is bad in the on the street sometimes. Okay. Street weed can make you loopy is my point. I'm not saying weed is bad, but like the weed you get on the street is often bad.

[00:09:06]>> Very strong.

[00:09:07]>> Yeah.

[00:09:07]>> Yeah. Um well, there's more than just the two chemicals. There's can different cannabonoids. So cannabonoids are these chemicals that you find in weed that activate a neurotr uh that are activated. They activate cannabonoid receptors in your brain. And you're like, well, why do I have cannabonoid receptors in my brain?

[00:09:24]>> Because chill out, man. Stop asking questions.

[00:09:26]>> Basically, just relax, man.

[00:09:28]>> Because there's a neurotransmitter called anandmide. uh and that is a cannabonoid a humanmade cannabonoid which is made in your body and cannabonoid receptors >> can also bind to it. I want to be clear though that is not to say but you got to remember we name these things.

[00:09:43]>> Yeah, >> right. So it's called a cannabonoid receptor because your cannabonoids will will you know >> it's real stoner logic to be like why would I have cannabonoid receptors if I don't want to if I'm not minister cannabis.

[00:09:55]>> Yeah it's just a chemical that activates it. We just called it that. That's like Yeah. It's like saying, "Why do I have a tongue if I shouldn't eat unlimited sugar?" Like, "What?" Shut up.

[00:10:04]>> That's That's not Yeah, that's that's not how that works. Like, if they come up with a product that's like tongue stuffers, it doesn't mean you need to stuff your tongue with it.

[00:10:11]>> Why would I have a tongue if not for the tongue stuffers that are on sale?

[00:10:15]>> Well, because they called it that. They called it that because they found out about the that, you know.

[00:10:19]>> No, no. I think what came first, the tongue stuffers or the tongue? The tongue stuffers.

[00:10:22]>> What came first? The partner >> is when it's with my tongue, Luke. Oh, >> I'm very >> I'm uncomfortable. Um, what does this >> Oh, I've I've never heard that once in my life. I I make people very comfortable with my tongue.

[00:10:35]>> I lay out a lovely spread.

[00:10:36]>> Well, right now you're making me uncomfortable with your tongue by talking. Um, >> my teeth are involved, too.

[00:10:41]>> Well, uh, they they can all apologize then. Um, what is this anandoid? What does it do? Like, is it like like I'm what I'm asking is like is it like a chill out thing? Is it like weed but like indogenous in your body?

[00:10:55]It makes you chill, makes you cool, man.

[00:10:57]>> Probably, man. I think it makes you munchies, too. I don't know. I didn't really look into it.

[00:11:02]>> Makes you munchies.

[00:11:03]>> Look, I didn't really look into it because I didn't want to get into the weeds.

[00:11:06]>> Okay, my apologies.

[00:11:07]>> I just wanted people to know the word anandmide and that it's a can canabonoid. Um, and that high concentrations of canabonoid receptors.

[00:11:16]Do you know where they are?

[00:11:17]>> In your brain.

[00:11:18]>> Yeah. uh hippocampus uh the basil ganglia cerebellum which causes all of the things that go on right so if you think about what happens to you when you smoke weed you can get confused uh you your time starts to be weird um and your movements are maybe a bit more sluggish and stuff that's because all of those parts of your brain I just mentioned control those things uh hippocampus is in the temporal lobe um coordination is the cerebellum and the basil ganglia direct unconscious muscle movements so that's why Your coordination is all messed up when you're on weed.

[00:11:50]>> Wonder if there's ever been a person called Sarah Bellum.

[00:11:52]>> Almost definitely.

[00:11:53]>> That's great. I hope she works in neuroscience.

[00:11:55]>> I knew a girl called Sarah. S E R A. So, there could be a girl called Sarah Bellum.

[00:12:00]>> She needs to marry Michael Sarah.

[00:12:01]>> So, it's Sarah. Sarah.

[00:12:02]>> Yeah.

[00:12:02]>> Just like uh Taylor Lner and Taylor Lner.

[00:12:05]>> It's Yes. I pay attention to things.

[00:12:07]>> So, Taylor Lner >> um the the Jacob from Twilight >> married himself.

[00:12:12]>> Married a woman called Taylor Lner. When you get married, >> oh, you know, you share a name.

[00:12:18]>> You must take the last name of your husband because that's God's will.

[00:12:20]>> Yeah. You must take the last name of your husband through a battle to the death. Whoever comes out on top takes the other's last name.

[00:12:26]>> Fantastic.

[00:12:26]>> As a trophy.

[00:12:27]>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They claim it. Lift it up up high.

[00:12:31]>> I love that idea though. Right. Can you imagine? You can imagine a society wherein it used to be a fight to the death to take and then you take someone's name as a as a trophy, but then it kind of gets watered down to a wedding thing where like, you know, you fight to the death, but like you don't actually fight. It's just whoever like kind of best someone in kind of like, you know, friendly combat.

[00:12:51]>> Chess.

[00:12:51]>> No, no, physical still.

[00:12:53]>> Okay. Okay.

[00:12:54]>> Just not to the death.

[00:12:55]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:55]>> I mean, I suppose you can do chess, not to the death, but >> like in like smacking each other's sumo suits.

[00:13:01]That'd be fun.

[00:13:01]>> Yeah, that could be fun. I was thinking just don't just just fight and then don't kill each other at the end. Do you know what I mean? That >> is so hard. You know, >> you get hard when you fight to the death.

[00:13:09]>> Is that your thing?

[00:13:10]>> That's how I hit the person off the podium. I'm not using [laughter] not using the big uh the big whacker.

[00:13:14]>> Hey, they said no weapons allowed.

[00:13:17][laughter] >> Oh, who's got the bow?

[00:13:18]>> This is all me, baby.

[00:13:21]>> U So, yeah, that's broadly how weed works. THC is the main uh main one in it. Um and CBD is the one that kind of does the painkilling and all that sort of stuff. And the makes you less anxious, I think, as well.

[00:13:34]>> Yeah, THC is the headline guy, but CBD is like the the real like support guy who like really it would be nothing if you know when you have like a double act and like there's one that's the main character, but the that person would not really be anyone if there wasn't the other one.

[00:13:46]>> Yeah. Name name some examples.

[00:13:48]>> Righty Bush. [laughter] >> Yeah. Okay. That is the be that is actually genuinely the best example you could have given.

[00:13:56]>> No, I got even better one. Uh Ricky, Steven Merchant.

[00:13:58]>> Oo wow. Yeah. Yeah. No, that is so true.

[00:14:01]That's We're really just talking about double XX where there is a loud person and then a foundational person. People don't realize is the actual brains of the operation.

[00:14:11]>> Yeah. It's kind of like the straight guy, isn't it? Like it's the person the kind of the the heightened thing plays off of the other person.

[00:14:16]>> I don't pay attention to heterosexuals, Luke, I'm afraid.

[00:14:19]>> So, who are you looking at when you watch The Mighty Bush?

[00:14:21]>> There's no one heterosexual in the Mighty Bush. Luke, have you seen the show?

[00:14:24]>> Uh, [laughter] okay.

[00:14:25]>> That's not That's not a heterosexual show. I don't know what it is, but it ain't straight. Yeah, it's not really any any sexuality is it's just sort of it's like a bad trip like a loopy high wee we wee back to the topic. Let's go.

[00:14:38]I'm trying. [laughter] >> Generally, bringing it back to the topic is my job. Your job is to do the exact opposite.

[00:14:44]>> You're welcome. Now you can make a name comments.

[00:14:46]>> We really should turn this around. What if I research the episode and I give you the notes and then you do it back to >> That sounds really fun. Yeah. And you have to try and react to them off of memory.

[00:14:55]>> Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not going to remember any of this from the second I said it. Honestly, it's it's in and out.

[00:15:01]Um, so the methods of this study, do you want to know what the methods were?

[00:15:04]>> Get a bunch of people high.

[00:15:06]>> No, cuz they didn't do us. They didn't it was it was a >> Oh, reading. The reading reading was the method.

[00:15:11]>> Yeah. So, they had to find a bunch of articles from uh January 1st, 1980 to May 13th, 2025 is when those articles were those like studies were published.

[00:15:20]Um, and they go, they searched a bunch of different places. This is not that I list it off because it doesn't matter to you, but um they found 5,774 titles of which 343 were duplicates. Um and so the remaining 5,431 were screened by title and abstract. And of those 5,292 were deemed irrelevant and 139 were assessed in full to determine eligibility. So they had to be double I think double they had to be um randomized control tiles >> is what they were looking at. Um, and they had to be eval evaluating the efficacy of cannabonoids in reducing or treating mental disorders and substance use disorders as the primary indication.

[00:15:57]>> They started with 5,000 articles and they ended up with 130 something. Yeah, >> that's Wow. No wonder it took them 45 years.

[00:16:04]>> The thing is, what did you say? 25.

[00:16:08]>> 45.

[00:16:08]>> It is 45. It didn't take them 45 years.

[00:16:11]A funny joke, but people are very, very stupid.

[00:16:14]>> Okay. So, >> the articles were over 45 years. The the reading did not take 45 years. take a bloody might bloody take of 45 years.

[00:16:21]You never know.

[00:16:22]>> They were really high at the time to be fair.

[00:16:24]>> I don't know. They might have just made this stuff up, right? They're so stoned.

[00:16:27]No. Um but for real, um they they got all those studies together and they narrowed them down to 139 and then at full text screening 81 were deemed irrelevant, resulting in 58 eligible titles.

[00:16:39]>> This is a really harsh screening screening system.

[00:16:42]>> Exactly. It's just over 1% of the ones that they found. Granted 343 of the ones that they found initially were duplicates. So it's a yeah about% >> about 1% is what they ended up using. Oh yeah. After after a further four titles were identified through reference list resulting in a total of 62 62 titles contributing data from 54 unique trials.

[00:17:05]Uh yeah so that sounds like some trials were used to write different studies right. Um, we also identified 14 ongoing trials through uh clinical trials uh registries that could not be included in the current synthesis.

[00:17:19]>> For why?

[00:17:19]>> Because they were ongoing.

[00:17:21]>> Ah, I need to learn to listen.

[00:17:23]>> Yeah. Yeah, that'd be really good.

[00:17:25]Again, you have two jobs on this. Listen and respond.

[00:17:28]>> I'm sort of listening out for keywords.

[00:17:30]Sometimes I'm just like, what's going on? Ah, there's so many words. Oh. Oh, wow. I'm so high. Oh. Ah.

[00:17:35]>> Maybe stop with the weed. I think that's the main issue.

[00:17:39]>> Yeah, we'll start there. And we'll stop here. Thank you for joining us. That's all. No. Um so, uh the 54 trials that were identified for inclusion that a total of 2,477 participants. Um 1,713 of which were males. That's 69%. The other 31% 764 were females. The median age being 33.3 years. And ethnicity data, Luke, was not available.

[00:18:04]>> Ah, how very woke of them. They didn't see race.

[00:18:08]>> Is it woke though? It's something.

[00:18:10]>> I think it's very important to know which race because you never know. I could be allowed to smoke and you might not be able to.

[00:18:15]>> Ah, true. It helps your insert illness here >> based on my race.

[00:18:20]>> If it if the study found that it helped you and it didn't help me, then maybe >> I'm just saying that some races shouldn't be allowed that. No, mine was a purely racial argument.

[00:18:28]>> Oh, they just shouldn't be allowed it.

[00:18:29]Even if it helps.

[00:18:29]>> No m scientifically speaking, you're not allowed as as a as a white man. I don't know why there's there's bound to be something. I can find a study that says that you can't have it. I'm sure >> I I I accept >> you accept. Yes, I accept. I will not have any weed as a non-weed smoker. I will I will take I'll take that upon myself to stop.

[00:18:46]>> I'm a real good guy. [laughter] >> Hey, I'm like, God, how about 28 years sober from heroin, Luke?

[00:18:54]>> Yeah, I'm more than that. I'm 32 years sober of heroin, >> dude. I can't wait to get to where you are, man. Honestly, it's been a tough 28 years.

[00:19:00]>> I'll be 34 36 years ahead then. You're never going to catch me.

[00:19:04]>> 36 years ahead.

[00:19:05]>> Seriously, 36 years streak.

[00:19:06]>> How old are you again? You're what? 64.

[00:19:09]>> I'm 85, but I had I had a real blip in the ' 90s.

[00:19:14]>> Carry on.

[00:19:15]>> Yes. I just had to calculate my own birthday.

[00:19:17]>> Uhhuh. A blip in the ' 90s. What was that? What was the blip?

[00:19:20]>> Real heroin binge.

[00:19:22]>> I wouldn't call a binge of heroin a blip. That seems a bit >> But then somebody came along who just read 5,000 articles uh and they gave me some weed and it fixed everything.

[00:19:32]>> I wouldn't say everything. I mean, whatever's going on now, it's very like Matt Smith, um, Doctor Who, which isn't a problem, but you know, >> it's no David Tenant.

[00:19:41][laughter] >> Is that your point?

[00:19:43]>> Yeah. I mean, I'm obviously the David Tennant.

[00:19:45]>> That's not even a question, Luke.

[00:19:48]>> No. So, uh, the ethnicity data is not available, unfortunately. We can't break it down by race.

[00:19:54]>> Taboo.

[00:19:55]>> I know. It's our favorite thing to do.

[00:19:58]Um so the primary outcomes were remission of disorder or reduction in disorder symptoms and safety was assessed via synthesis of all cause and serious adverse events which was used to calculate the number needed to treat to harm. Don't need to worry about whatever that is. They just wanted to also look at like how basically dangerous it seemed to be as well if that makes sense.

[00:20:18]>> Yeah. It's like I mean that's basically how all treatments are measured, isn't it? Like you're you're not just measuring like does it have bad effects versus does it cure the thing. You're also measuring like does it cure the thing relative to how bad it would be if we didn't cure it. Even if there are bad effects, if the alternative of not taking it is even worse, we still give it.

[00:20:35]>> Yeah, absolutely. Like if you had this thing that would kill you outright, um or it would like, you know, cause you to be in extreme pain and like slowly die, you know, sort of thing, let's say. Um and we've got this medication that could make things way worse, but in 99% of cases, it completely fixes it.

[00:20:55]>> You're using that. Yeah, >> you're taking that bet.

[00:20:58]>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, either way, you're going down, right? But, uh, [laughter] >> that's nice.

[00:21:02]>> That's just about how quick, Luke. How painless. Um, no. So, the, uh, we've done the safety thing. Two independent reviewers also then screened all the studies and performed data extraction.

[00:21:12]24 of the trials had a high risk of bias. They said they listed my face on bias.

[00:21:16]>> Bunch of stoners doing all this research, >> right?

[00:21:19]>> Or weed dealers. I don't know if dealers are taking time out of their busy busy busy days of not responding to texts for hours on end and showing up about three hours later than they said they would.

[00:21:31]Um, yeah. I don't know if plugs are are Maybe that's why they're so late actually.

[00:21:35]>> Sorry. I was really busy doing some science.

[00:21:38]>> Dude, you know what? I know I said I'd be here at 6 and I know it is 900 p.m.

[00:21:42]the following day, >> but we hit a real breakthrough, you know?

[00:21:47]>> Yeah. The 1800s of science had like rich white dudes doing all the science and now it's just stoners doing all the science. They sell the drugs to fund the science. That's what they're doing, right?

[00:21:57]>> One would hope so, right?

[00:21:58]>> And the government wants to make that illegal government because they don't like science, Cory. They want to silence science.

[00:22:03]>> I mean, to be fair though, you're not actually too I mean, you're you're you're pulling in a lot of disperate things, but you're actually ending your working is wrong, but your answer is right.

[00:22:11]>> Yeah. And in all fairness, if it turns out that like weed, for example, does help with a variety of illnesses, which is supposed to, the people who did that discovery, they are the people doing the illegal the weed, right? It's not like they've been saying it, right? It's like when scientists found the clitoris, like the women had been saying about the clitoris for ages and the scientists were like, "We found it." And the stoners will be like, "Hey, this makes me more less anxious and it like helps my multiple sclerosis." And the scientists are like, "We've just discovered that it helps multiple sclerosis." Huzzah.

[00:22:44]>> Yes. Multiple sclerosis, the most well-known of the mental disorders.

[00:22:47][laughter] >> It's all in your head.

[00:22:49]>> Yes. I think it does help though. I think [laughter] it's one of the things it's one of the things it's prescribed for, I think.

[00:22:55]>> Yeah. So, this is the thing. They're not um they're not sort of talking about it's used to treat like say for pain and whatnot, but this is specifically based on mental issues. So like ADHD, autism is one, um PTSD, uh goodness me, what else? Depression, anxiety, OCD, you know, the just all of the sort of uh acronyms and initialisms that people that watch this like to use.

[00:23:24]>> Mhm. And indeed who are on it.

[00:23:27]>> Yeah, we're definitely on it right now.

[00:23:29]We're stonked. So yeah, they said that some of them had a high risk of bias. I don't know what to take from this study.

[00:23:36]Right, this is the difficult thing where look, I don't want to say, oh, it's wrong, but they did get rid of a lot of studies. They're saying that a lot of them are biased and it seems to kind of uh flat out say that sort of weed does not help with X, Y, and Zed, which experimentally may be the case, but anecdotally does not seem to be the case. And you know what I mean? like it's I I I find it hard to believe that there's that there's no benefit. Marijuana has no benefit therapeutically um across all of these things. Um especially based on how few studies like I mean if you think about it right the the number of disorders and and whatnot that they're looking at the fact there's only 60 odd studies.

[00:24:18]>> Yeah.

[00:24:19]>> Let's say there's even 10 sort of just like 10 to 12 disorders, right, that they're looking at. That would only leave you like five or six studies per thing. And I don't know if five or six studies is enough to really say this this has no benefit especially when you're getting rid of so so many others.

[00:24:37]You know >> does it say about the bias is it because I actually like very naively assumed the bias was like it they found it to be good and helpful and they're like these guys are biased and that's why I joke to their stoners. Is actually it's anti-weed bias or is it a mix of things do you think? I mean, it probably goes into more depth somewhere in the paper, but I've not got that in front of me right now, so I don't remember. But it it just a high risk of bias, meaning as in there's a high risk of the results being biased.

[00:25:03]>> So that's it could be biased either way.

[00:25:06]>> Yeah. Okay. And so uh it also then goes on to say the certainty um of evidence for most outcomes was low. And our meta analysis revealed that a combination of can uh can cannabidol and delta 9 tetrahydro cannabonol um could reduce cannabis withdrawal symptoms um and weekly grams of cannabis use among those with cannabis use disorder. So what it's what one of the things is that it says that weed can be good for helping people who have a weed addiction.

[00:25:31]>> Yes.

[00:25:31]>> Which sounds dumb.

[00:25:32]>> Yeah. However, you got to remember not all weed is built the same. So, it's like an oral formulation of the THC can reduce people can reduce the sort of use of non-medical marijuana.

[00:25:45]>> Yeah. Or even like I was saying before like a weed that actually has a good like balance between THC and CBD. Like I there's a quote I think from someone in the Beatles, this is where I originally heard about this is that says something like the weed you get today is nothing like the weed they were smoking when they were writing the Beatles music. Um, and I think the point is is that one thing we do know is that the weed that you would buy like I want to say commercially but not commercially like on the street from a drug dealer or whatever is >> locally locally. Yeah.

[00:26:16]>> Supporting a local business.

[00:26:17]>> Yes, indeed. Sport supporting local science. Grassroots science. Uh, well, >> definitely grassroots.

[00:26:22]>> Weedroot science. Oh, grass buds, I think, >> is generally being pushed towards the more heavy THC, low CBD end, which is much more likely to make you anxious, much more likely to make you have psychosis. Like, the higher CBD stuff is much more likely to just make you feel nice in your body and chilled out. Um, and a balance between those two things is is important. Like, low THC is not automatically good. Like, you probably won't do anything, right? it just make you feel more relaxed and maybe help with the pain and stuff. But yeah, no, absolutely.

[00:26:56]>> Um, and so what I'm getting at there is that you could replace if you replace that weed like high THC weed that's making you anxious or like psychotic with something medically tuned, scientifically tuned to be like healthier, have evidence that it's not going to make you anxious, then that even though you're replacing weed with weed could literally be transformative.

[00:27:15]>> Oh yeah, absolutely. And also bearing in mind that um there's not just one sort of cannabonoid I guess. So the like there's a lot of complex compounds in weed and if you sort of eat it the in order to make it edible you need to um change the chemical by heating, right?

[00:27:38]And so that's why you would have to say heat it and then um and then eat it. you wouldn't be able to just eat eat it raw and get any effects from it. But in heating it, I think it changes it to a slightly different chemical um sort of the chemicals the chemical structure is slightly different than if you were to say smoke it.

[00:27:58]>> And so edible highs are different to smoking highs, >> right?

[00:28:03]>> Um and that comes into it as well, right? And obviously like the like you can look at as well like methadone.

[00:28:10]methadone >> that they give you if you're addicted to um heroin.

[00:28:13]>> Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah >> yeah. So like weaning someone off of something with something like that but then it's yeah again taking an edible is very very different than like you know smoking constantly >> and you've got predictable dosing as well like >> that's another part as well >> because you never know what week to week your dealer could just have totally different weed.

[00:28:29]>> Absolutely. And you can never trust that what they're putting in a bag is the same as what they're saying it is. Which is why again like um sort of legalization and then having it regulated just is the way forward.

[00:28:39]Right. Because I mean, I've been to the US. I've gone into a shop and it's like going into a sweet shop and they're like, "What kind of thing do you want?"

[00:28:45]And I'm like, "Oh, well, this is what I want." And then I get exactly what I want.

[00:28:48]>> Yeah.

[00:28:48]>> Which is which is great. It's It's honestly it's fine. I find it um when I'm in a place where it's legal, I find it much better than going out and drinking, right? Because like >> it's just it could be fun. It can be chill. And all you need to do is just pop a gummy time.

[00:29:03]>> I haven't been to one of those shops in America because I they wouldn't let me in cuz I forgot my passport. So, I had to stay outside while my friends went in. That's really [laughter] funny.

[00:29:12]>> That's so lame. I was just like And it was like so like hightech and like it's like an Apple store for weed. And I was just there on outside that I was like, I've got a picture on my passport. No, no, no, no, no.

[00:29:21]>> Was it like a med? Was it a med?

[00:29:23]>> Uh, it was in Los Angeles. I have no idea where it was.

[00:29:26]>> And then it could be literally anything.

[00:29:27]God knows. Yeah.

[00:29:29]>> But it felt so like that just like outside like they won't let me in.

[00:29:33]>> It's such a shame. And like Okay, look.

[00:29:35]Yes. the cost the cost goes way up, but you know, you could put that money towards taxes, so it could, you know, I don't know. Um, just think about all of the politicians friends whose companies are going to get more rich from that.

[00:29:46]Yay. I think Jacob Ree Moog owns some weed plantations in the UK.

[00:29:51]>> Jacob Reese Mog, the man who is what?

[00:29:53]Uh, I guess the closest thing we have to a disgusting demon on Earth.

[00:30:00]>> No, that's Nigel Farage.

[00:30:02]>> I thought Nigel Farage was a troll come to life. Oh, sorry. Yes, my mistake. Uh, I think I goodness I may li maybe lieling here or wherever it is slandering. I can't remember. But I I know that there's a a politician who has an like a significant investment in medical marijuana farms despite being incredibly publicly against weed, including I think legalization of weed, which is hilarious. It says uh from the BBC in 2018, Victoria Atkins uh accused of hypocrisy over um on a grand scale over her husband's involvement in illegal cannabis farm.

[00:30:35]>> Ah, I don't know who that is, but I was wrong.

[00:30:38]>> Yeah, I don't know. Well, the thing is as well, >> formerly apologize to Jacob Reese.

[00:30:41]>> No, we don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. You don't have to apologize to that man ever. You know what I mean? What you could do is um God, think of any terrible thing.

[00:30:52]>> Uh >> nonviolent. This is not a call to this is not sarcastic terror. You think of any nonviolent awful thing one could conceptually do and then you can think about doing that to Jacob Reese Mog and make yourself feel somewhat better so long as you never take it into the real world or act upon it in any way.

[00:31:07]>> Okay. Uh stealing from my own baby.

[00:31:10]>> I mean he's probably done that, hasn't he? Got him.

[00:31:13]>> I take I take things off her all the time and she's not happy about it.

[00:31:16]>> I don't think you stealing because you own everything.

[00:31:19]>> She thinks I'm stealing and she doesn't agree that I own it. every single thing.

[00:31:22]Well, yeah, but that's like taking bloody land back from a landlord. They don't own it. That's just land. Shut up.

[00:31:29]You're stupid. How can you own a It's just space floor, man.

[00:31:34]>> You only own it because we're letting you think that you do. We could just all take it from you if we want.

[00:31:39]>> You've really been hitting that joint, haven't you, Cory? [laughter] >> Look, the only thing I want to hit is Jacob run. Anyway, so and his technical dream coat. And we won't see you in court, Jacob. Joseph.

[00:31:51]>> Oh yeah. [laughter] Okay. Whoopsie.

[00:31:56]>> That's just a non secret at that point.

[00:31:59]>> Well, I got us out of court.

[00:32:01]>> Insanity, please. Is that what it is?

[00:32:03]>> Yeah.

[00:32:03]>> I'm sorry. Luc is not of for is not of sound mind.

[00:32:06]>> Your honor, I was baked.

[00:32:08]>> Your honor, he has mental health.

[00:32:10]>> Ah, case is missed. [laughter] >> Or mental health.

[00:32:15]>> It's mental health in it, love. It's mental [laughter] health. The cannabis withdrawal symptoms. um they went down and blah blah blah blah, right? Um and there was a reduction in tick severity among those with tick or Tourette's syndrome compared to placebo. Insomnia, any cannabonoid type led to an increase in sleep time as recorded by an electronic device and sleep diary among those with an insomnia. Uh this one's good. A reduction in autistic traits among those with autism spectrum disorder.

[00:32:42]>> What does that mean?

[00:32:43]>> This is the thing that bugs me. So, this is this piqu my interest and made me consider because I I don't >> that could be the bias of that one coming in there.

[00:32:53]>> I don't want to sit here and be like, "Oh, well, this is obviously dumb because like weed is awesome and everyone should be able to have weed and and blah all drugs should be legalized and blah blah blah blah blah. So, any science that says it's wrong and then that's bad."

[00:33:06]>> No. Um, I am just cautious because it the headline I saw was a very bold claim. A very bold claim. And obviously the headline is not from the article itself, right? Uh the headline uh reads, "Huge study finds no evidence cannabis helps anxiety, depression, or PTSD." Um now, we know what that's like, you know what that kind of intends what that implies, right? It implies that there's no evidence that it helps. And people are to read that and they think, "Oh, it doesn't help." Like that this study has proved that it doesn't help anything.

[00:33:39]>> Yeah. Because that's what it says. But finding no evidence doesn't mean that you could because >> it hasn't disproven it. It's just found no evidence.

[00:33:49]>> I'll spoil this a little bit. Um for from what I can from what I recall um from what I read and what was in my what's in my notes. Uh the the reason they didn't find any evidence that it helped depression isn't because the studies that they found didn't there was no evidence. They didn't I think there weren't enough studies for them to make a conclusive statement on depression.

[00:34:09]>> I could literally say that about anything then. I could say huge study I could study a bunch of things about rabbits and then be like huge study finds that dragons don't exist because I didn't look for any evidence >> exactly rabbit there's not enough evidence that you know dragons are the are the biggest sort of predator of rabbits because we couldn't find enough studies on dragons um you know predating upon rabbits well yeah but well actually hold on wait because dragons don't predate on rabbits because they don't exist Yeah. Which is why we didn't find any evidence of that.

[00:34:42]>> Exactly. Right. But there could be a situation wherein you just didn't look at any like it's like saying, "Oh, rabbits don't eat uh grass." Cuz you didn't I don't do rabbits eat grass? Why did you use rabbits as an example? You chose something I know nothing about.

[00:34:54]>> To really explain the point, right? I could do a bunch of like experiments on like rabbits eyes and then be like, "Huge study on rabbits finds no evidence that rabbits like like grass." Yeah.

[00:35:04]Because I wasn't looking at whether they ate grass or noting down whether they liked grass. I was looking at their eyes >> and yes doesn't make >> any sense.

[00:35:11]>> That was it. So there were insufficient data to metaanalyze studies of ADHD, bipolar disorder, obsessivempulsive disorder and taco uh tobacco uh use disorder. Um and there was an absence of randomized control evidence for the treatment of depression. So an abs an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[00:35:30]>> Right? by which I mean not being able to find any data on uh from or trials on this does not mean you can make the statement that there's uh that it doesn't help depression and that again it doesn't mean the opposite. It doesn't mean that you can say well it does help depression. It just means that we don't you've not got any data on that so we can't make a claim one way or the other.

[00:35:50]And I think it's misleading to have a headline that says finds no evidence that it helps because that is literally true. They did not find any evidence that it helped but that's because they didn't find any randomized control tri trials on it. You know, they didn't find control trials that showed no evidence of it helping. They didn't find enough evidence of anything.

[00:36:07]>> Who wrote this headline?

[00:36:08]>> Uh, it was Science Daily. So, it's >> That's insane.

[00:36:11]>> No. So, it's called Science Daily.

[00:36:14]>> Science Daily. It's It's a confusing one because it is kind of laid out. It is kind of laid out as though it's a kind of science paper, right? So, it is laid out in an almost legit way. It's sourced and stuff as well. It is loaded with ads, too. You can cite the page and everything, but it does kind of hit that sort of pop science right like psychology.

[00:36:35]>> Yeah.

[00:36:35]>> Which has some perfectly good reporting, but also a lot of slop.

[00:36:38]>> Exactly. And that's what's really difficult for me trying to like figure out like, okay, can we trust this or not? Um, and this study is not I'm not saying that it's bad at all, but um, this autism thing always kind of I'm always kind of conscious when stuff like that comes up because when it comes to autism, it's always a reduction in symptoms, which doesn't feel like a very autism forward way of dealing with things. It's just getting autistic people to not seem autistic.

[00:37:05]>> It's very pathizing as well.

[00:37:07]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> because there are some things parts of autism that are disabling, but there are also parts of autism that are just different.

[00:37:13]>> It's annoying, isn't it?

[00:37:14]>> There's actually a really interesting study I'll talk about in the Patreon about this that I um read like again well read is is not well I can't remember where I got it from actually to be fair. Um but it's really interesting.

[00:37:25]It's about autism, about that like treatment of how we treat and talk about autistic people and how aspects of autism might be something other than just purely disabilities or purely um like not picking up on things or whatever. Not that autism isn't sometimes sl often disabling, but um sometimes it's also just incompatibility between people.

[00:37:49]>> Annoying. Yeah.

[00:37:51]>> Okay. No, but for real, like a lot of the stuff a lot of study a lot of stuff with autistic people is just getting autistic people to be less annoying to people who aren't autistic.

[00:37:59]>> Exa Exactly.

[00:38:00]>> Like that's that's I mean I was talking to someone the other day who was like, "Yeah, I went through intense speech and language therapy um because I was diagnosed with autism at like three.

[00:38:09]They literally taught me about jokes.

[00:38:11]They had you had to memorize and like learn joke structure." And I'm like, that's so funny because like so much of humor, like yes, that'll get you by small talk dayto-day and stuff, but like so much of humor is not just like structure, structure, struct asked you, is there a book about jokes?

[00:38:31]>> That's funny cuz I brought that up to him. I said, "Yeah, my friend was like, "Hey, Cory, do you know any good books about comedy and like how to write how to write jokes and comedy jokes?" And I was like, "Buddy, I think you just got to I think you just got to get the funny, you know? You just got to >> I just >> You just got to feel the funny.

[00:38:46]>> I know. And I'm capable of doing that. I just wanted to [laughter] I wanted to >> I am capable.

[00:38:51]>> I could do it. I promise. Uh I just wanted to have like I wondered if there like was like cuz there's underlying structure to things, right? Like and so I was I was curious about like well I don't want to do all the work trying to decode all these structures. Someone must have done it and written it down.

[00:39:03]I'll go find that. That's what like cuz then I when I it was I was writing at the time and I was like well if I'm stuck in a scene it's sometimes helpful to have a list of things to refer to to go like oh would this reinvigorate the scene? Would this reinvigorate the scene? Can I do this kind of reheversal?

[00:39:15]That kind of stuff. But I understand I came across like >> No, I [laughter] Yeah, >> there there is structure, right? Even with like say like with anything, even with like um say improv, right? Improv which is which on the face of it seems to be all about sort of like um oh just do anything. No, it's like there's a game finding the game and you're kind of like playing that game together >> and there there's lots of structure in things even where there seems that there isn't structure. But comedy in and of itself is something that is so broad that like it's it's hard it'd be hard to encapsulate. Do you know what I mean? Um because a lot of it is about breaking expectations. So you can build a joke that is all about. So people say, "Oh, comedy is about surprise." But I've seen an amazing stand-up set where someone just makes essentially the same joke over and over again.

[00:40:02]>> Oh my god. Is [clears throat] it the one where like um the guy says the set's going to be really good >> and then keeps on saying this is going to be really good when I get started and he does that whole thing for like his whole 5 minute slot and then just leaves.

[00:40:14]>> That's one maybe. Yeah, sure. But like like there's there's like there are ones where like and like that's one where there's anticipation, right? Um and I think that like you know you've got jokes that are that give you something something unexpected, right? That's a classic joke. give you something give someone something unexpected or say something in an unexpected way or break the pattern and it'll be surprising. But there's also a lot of humor to be found in doing exactly what someone knows you're going to do and say because you've done and said it like seven times already, but what's really funny is that anticipation. And so when people say comedy is about surprise, I disagree. I think it's about tension and release.

[00:40:51]>> Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, >> that's that's if you want to break it down to its simplest aspect, tension and release. Tension and release. That's why horror can be so close to comedy because that's all about tension and release.

[00:41:01]That's why a lot of good comedians make excellent horror directors because they're very good >> at handling those those those aspects.

[00:41:09]But look, I think it's time for a for an ad.

[00:41:14]Dingling. Is that the ad bell?

[00:41:17]>> I knew you'd be back, you old bastard.

[00:41:21]>> And you know what he's back for, Luke?

[00:41:22]Or she. You never know. In fact, she because here's what's going on, Luke.

[00:41:27]The Adbell is transitioning its gender >> into >> doesn't matter. None of your business.

[00:41:33]But what is your business and what is our business, Luke, is raising the money for the Adbell to go through all of the many, many medical procedures it wants to go through to be its true self.

[00:41:43]>> Yes. And you know those those are expensive. And it's even more expensive when you're trying to do the surgery on a bell. You have no idea how little supportive funding there is for bell help.

[00:41:54]>> We're having to invent an entirely new science just to help this poor bell transition. And you know if that doesn't pull on your heartstrings, I don't know what will. So you should if it has pulled on those little heartstrings. If you have any, you heartless. [laughter] Uh a lot of beefing for you to do this one Cory. Uh then please head over to our Patreon patreon.com guys where we do bonus episodes which are significantly more unhinged than the main show often which is surprising considering how unhinged the show gets.

[00:42:25]>> The most hinged that they get is about on par with the ads. So the ads are more unhinged. This right now is more unhinged than the normal show.

[00:42:33]>> Yes.

[00:42:33]>> The Patreon stuff.

[00:42:35]>> This is our baseline, you know. So, if you like being about as hinged as a bell transitioning into a different but unspecified gender, you'll love the Patreon. [laughter] So, go over there, give us a little bit of money to keep us being fed and watered like a happy little plant. Um, and we'll see you there. And if we if we don't see you there, then you're los mate. Catch on.

[00:42:57]>> We probably won't see them there because it is a one-way communication sort of system, you know.

[00:43:02]>> Oh, >> yeah. I know. It's the cameras only go the one way, >> but that's what we're getting the money for to next after the bell transition fund the telepathic cameras. We're going >> to transition into different cameras >> into magic cameras. Yes. That and again that >> but they're already black magic cameras.

[00:43:18]Luke, >> they're Yes. Yeah. Well, we've got to get some of that magic out. We've got to get the voodoo. We've got to get the voodoo out. And that'll take time and money. So, you better get to the Patreon. Good as me. What happened? Back to the show. This is >> off the rails, man. does get back.

[00:43:33]Okay, look, so this study uh they were looking at a bunch of different things.

[00:43:36]I've already said it there was a reduction in autistic traits, which made me think, oh, okay, right. I mean, sure, I I've known autistic people to be high.

[00:43:45]But also, when you get an autistic person drunk, they they're less autistic. You know, >> if you inebriate them with anything, they're less everything.

[00:43:52]>> Yeah. You just put I don't know. It's a it's a it's a great cheat code, though.

[00:43:55]You know, actually, this is the thing.

[00:43:56]I've known autistic people to be like, I need to be careful about how much I drink because like >> they'll drink a little bit and they're like, I can be social. Cool. Yeah. And then it's like, oh no, now I have a drinking problem. What?

[00:44:07]>> That [laughter] hit home too hard for me.

[00:44:13]>> Oh, no.

[00:44:14]>> I was talking about friends of mine, Luke. So, you're very safe.

[00:44:18]>> Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:19]>> I will say this. Canabonoids.

[00:44:22]>> Can That's a really funny word.

[00:44:23]Canabonoids.

[00:44:24]>> Canab canabonoids. cannabonoids um led to an increase in cocaine craving amongst those with cocaine use disorder compared with placebo.

[00:44:31]>> Probably just Pavlo's dog though, isn't it?

[00:44:33]>> Yeah. I mean, >> they start with the weed and then they just get onto the cocaine at the parties.

[00:44:37]>> Well, here's what I think, right? If you give someone who likes uppers a downer, they're going to want their upper to get back to normal. And then when they're normal, they're like, I want my upper again.

[00:44:46]>> So true, King.

[00:44:48]>> Thank you for adding. Do you have anything else to say?

[00:44:50]>> Uh, no. Drugs are bad.

[00:44:52]>> I'd love to see you in an improv class, you know. Yes. stand. It's for Luke.

[00:44:56]You're just Yes.

[00:44:57]>> YES. [laughter] >> MIKE, >> a live demonstration. [laughter] >> That didn't even seem intentional. But that had been a funny bit, but I'm sitting here looking in your eyes and I saw the surprise on your face.

[00:45:11]>> You'll never know. You'll never know.

[00:45:13][laughter] Am I a genius or am I an idiot?

[00:45:16]>> Goodness me. Uh so there were no significant effects or outcomes associated with as I said anxiety, anorexia, nervosa, uh psychotic disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder and opioid use disorder.

[00:45:26]>> No significant >> no significant effects on outcomes associated with those which is nuts because you'd think if you get someone with anorexia so stoned they get to munchies.

[00:45:34]>> I was going to I was going to make that joke and I didn't like it when I said it in my head and I I still don't like it.

[00:45:40]>> Here's the thing. You got to ignore that little voice inside of you that says don't say that. What you got to do is honestly just kill it. I think I drowned mine um when I was very very very young.

[00:45:51]I don't even remember what it sounds like.

[00:45:53]>> I don't think that sounds like a good idea. Some of these thoughts some of these thoughts are not healthy.

[00:45:58][laughter] >> Got us this far, didn't it? And by us, I mean me. It got me this far. Maybe I could have gotten farther if I had a voice in my head saying, "Don't say that." But unfortunately, Luke, no. No.

[00:46:09][laughter] >> It's Sorry, it's just going again now.

[00:46:12]It's just going stop talking.

[00:46:14]Perfect sort of impulse for a man who >> podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's not good. [laughter] >> Yeah. Sorry. I'm I'm a standup with stage fright.

[00:46:24]>> Yeah. I'm a director, but I don't like confrontation. Oh, sorry. [laughter] >> That's rude.

[00:46:31]>> No, I didn't even mean that one.

[00:46:33]>> Yeah, >> you're catching strange.

[00:46:35]>> I know. So, yeah. Okay. Yeah. The Yeah, the anorexia joke. I don't know. I Yeah.

[00:46:40]Yeah. No, but I mean for real, it's actually really interesting um that even with like a sort of primal desire to eat caused by marijuana that it doesn't seem to have any influence on anorexia. But then that does uh make some semblance of sense if you actually look into anorexia and understand that it's more than just like you know like put it this way people who are anorexic are not anorexic because they don't feel hungry.

[00:47:06]>> Yeah. And I guess what like not to like lower the tone or like whatever. It's fun joke. Haha. We understand anorexia to to the extent that two people with anorexia cannot without anorexia can understand it. But I guess my point is is that like >> anorexia like not eating is a symptom of anorexia. So the the even if the weed made you hungry, it didn't do anything for your anor even made you eat because you were hungry didn't do anything to your anorexia. It might have just made you eat. An anorexic people do eat. they just then might have methods of then reversing the eating or like then not eating later on or like whatever. So like I guess that would be my bar for like whether it's actually doing anything for the >> ania gorging binging engorging is not going to be it's actually if anything it'd be probably worse, right? But I think I I'd assume it's not just give them the munchies so they eat. It's probably more um using using it to um usually when you find weed being used in these sorts of things, it's to manage things like anxiety. Um and I think it mentioned somewhere in the paper that the best outcomes for all of these things come when it's also there's also therapy and everything. It's the same as when we we talk about um the psychedelics, right? You don't want to just give someone LSD and be like, "Oh, there you go. There's some LSD. Go and uh sort your brain out." Now, you want to have someone there that's like, "And how does that make you feel?"

[00:48:26]>> Yeah. Who would do that?

[00:48:28]>> What? Who would ask how how you feel?

[00:48:31]>> No, no, no. What? Look, I'm I'm so confused. Perhaps you could clarify.

[00:48:34]>> No, I will not. [laughter] >> I love how sweet you were thinking that I didn't get the joke.

[00:48:41]>> Okay. Right. Fine. Okay. Yeah. Whoopsie.

[00:48:43]>> No, no, no. I understood. I just want you to squirm. [laughter] >> Hey, well achieved.

[00:48:49]>> Um, yeah. Yeah, but insufficient data uh to meta anal to meta analyze studies of ADHD, bipolar disorder, obsessivempulsive disorder, and tobacco use disorder. Um, and I I think it's really interesting, right, though, that there's such bold claims are being made, but actually it seems that there is some effect of uh cannabonoids uh being helpful for a bunch of things that we listed like um insomnia, um autism.

[00:49:16]>> What's so funny about autism, Cory?

[00:49:18]>> It's just getting getting [laughter] getting an autistic person stoned so that they're less autistic.

[00:49:23]>> Hey, you don't even slightly care about trains anymore. [laughter] >> Like is the is the Yeah. [laughter] >> Oh, you have arid, do you? Huh? Oh, yeah. Take a suddenly those Cheetos that dust on your fingers is not going to feel as bad as as as good as it tastes.

[00:49:42]I said that very good. Look, thank you.

[00:49:44]Thank you for the praise. Interestingly, like side point here is that there's been some evidence recently that we govy like the stuff for weight loss is potentially good for cravings for addictions. I think it's only the only thing I read about was it potentially being helpful for people who were taking it for um weight management but also drank a lot. They also had either either like they fully were alcoholics or they just drank more than they wanted to. And it went down from like 17 nights a week to five nights. Sorry, not 17 nights a month. 17 nights a week.

[00:50:15]>> I know. They were really going for it.

[00:50:16]No.

[00:50:16]>> Jesus Christ. Look, when I was at my worst, I wasn't even able to I could maybe push to 10 nights a [laughter] week. You can get you could get two nights in a day because it there's the the morning is >> Yeah. Okay. No. So, it's like 70 nights a month, like five nights a month because I think the idea is that it might interrupt addiction circuits in the brain as well as having the weight loss um impact.

[00:50:35]>> That makes sense. I'd be interested to see how it affects something like smoking or or because obviously alcohol consumption is still caloric intake. So, it might you know what I mean? might be down that route. But it's really interesting. It'd be really interesting to see if it is um addiction centers or if it's more I just don't need to consume.

[00:50:52]>> Well, maybe everyone should take that because what the hell is this this hellcape we're living in?

[00:50:56]>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Let's take the drug that gets you off your phone.

[00:50:59]Here's a drug that makes you not addicted to your phones that we've made addictive. Okay. Um >> I meant I meant consumption, but like [laughter] consumer society, whatever.

[00:51:07]>> I get you. I get you. Um so, uh basically, uh this was a meta analysis.

[00:51:11]as we said, it looked into a bunch of different things. I could get into the weeds about how they sort of did all of their analysis, but we've we've kind of gone over it, right? Um they uh there's there saying that there's not a lot of data for certain things. Um for some it seemed that there wasn't any um there wasn't any sort of significant effect, but that doesn't mean there's any negative uh there's strictly a negative effect. Um cocaine use obviously it doesn't help with, but those other ones it does seem to help with. And it's interesting to me how this is being framed because um you know there's a quote here from the lead author though our paper didn't specifically look at this. The routine use of med uh medicinal cannabis could be doing more harm than good by worsening mental health outcomes. For example, a greater risk of psychotic symptoms and developing cannabis use disorder and delaying the use of more effective treatments. Um I I this is difficult because this whole area is filled with bias, right? Um, and obviously I'm I lean towards legalization. Um, I've said already, you know, if I'm if I'm in the US, I like an edible. Um, if I lived in the US, I would probably be I'd probably be using edibles relatively often. Um, do you know what I mean? Like in an evening, like >> sort of pop one or pop one or two before bed. Um, >> just to quiet the brain, you know? Um, I find that's really helpful when I'm when I'm in like when I'm away in the US and working. Um, or maybe I don't because maybe this is all just a joke because I don't remember if it's actually strictly technically legal for me to do it or if it breaks the visa. And if it does, then I haven't done it and this is all a joke.

[00:52:44]>> But if it's fine, then I did do it.

[00:52:45]>> That that perfectly stands up.

[00:52:47][laughter] >> But no, um, I think >> dismissed.

[00:52:51]>> Thank you. Thank you, your honor.

[00:52:53]>> Bonnie Witherspoon. [laughter] >> Who's Bonnie Witherspoon? A daughter of Ree perhaps. Um, no, but I I you know, I I think that um I think that it's it can I think it can be helpful um anecdotally and obviously people can get addicted it can get addicted and whatnot. Um and I I I think there should be regulation, but I think fearmongering around weeds is not necessarily helpful. But then also like sort of holding it up as uh sort of panacea is equally problematic, right?

[00:53:24]because people can get addicted to weed because people can get addicted to anything. Um >> but the situation we have right now where it is strictly illegal in the UK I don't think is remotely helpful um to any of this because then you just get stronger weed on the streets. You can't have say edibles that are controlled in their doses and whatnot. Um and it can only really be had in ways that are you can't have THC drinks for example, right? So it can only be had in ways that are kind of harmful to your lungs.

[00:53:51]Um they sorry I will say one one more thing. Uh they they also add meta analysis revealed higher odds of all cause adverse events among those using cannabis versus control group but no higher odds of serious adverse events or study withdrawal. So um yeah like it there's uh maybe a there's I think it's a slight increase maybe based on what I'm looking at. Um I can't quite remember. Uh but there there are higher odds of adverse events using weed.

[00:54:18]Obviously, there are risks that are going to come with marijuana, right?

[00:54:22]It's a mindaltering drug.

[00:54:24]>> Um, there's definitely going to be risks, but um that doesn't necessarily mean that those risks aren't worth it for some individuals depending on how it's used, um, etc. But at least for, you know, insomnia, um, and autism, Tourette's um, and even can like cannabis addiction. it seems to be somewhat useful, right?

[00:54:50]>> And the thing is as well is like we're talking about evidence here, right?

[00:54:53]We're talking about whether there's evidence for something and we have other evidence when we're talking about legalization. We have evidence where countries have legalized it >> and they haven't turned into massive pits of stoners and they have m the Netherlands is still a perfectly viable country. Um they've not, you know, I don't know the crime statistics. I don't know the statistics on alcoholism. I don't know this, but it's we don't hear like, oh, the Netherlands has absolutely gone downhill since they legalized marijuana, right? And so like my point is is like we we we have evidence that we have people claim that there are benefits to them. We have evidence that like legalizing it doesn't mean everyone becomes a stoner and the people who want to smoke weed or take weed in some way have safer weed and that's also going to be good for them. And it also kind of becomes boring. I I've heard met loads of people from the Netherlands who are like, "Yeah, it's just boring in the Netherlands because it's legal."

[00:55:48]>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:55:49]>> And we have an alcohol problem. We do have we do have legal things that are really bad in this country and they're legal.

[00:55:53]>> Here's what I'd say, right, is that I think I' I'd wager that the most common crime committed by um and this is this is this is going to sound silly, but let me finish it. The most common crime committed by people who use weed >> is smoking weed.

[00:56:09]>> Yeah. Is is smoking weed. Um, and even outside of that, I don't think there's necessarily going to be a huge like there's going to be a huge inclination towards other crimes unless you're also dealing with other illegal drugs. Do you know what I mean?

[00:56:23]>> Yeah. It's not like heroin where it's going to really like you you so desperately need the hit you're going to like go and rob a bank or rob a store or something >> or even just being on it the behavior, right? Like because if you're on cocaine, you're more likely to be reckless and do sort of reckless things.

[00:56:37]You might be more likely to commit a crime. um if you're on um amphetamines like or you know like say crystal meth or like any anything like even if you're drinking alcohol right you're probably more likely to commit a crime. I feel like if like if weed were legalized um and this isn't even about legalization, this is about like therapeutic med medicinal use, right? Um if if it was more available um in those ways, then people could use it to help themselves if it actually helped them, right? Like you know um meditation works for some people, doesn't work for others. There's not really any risk with meditation like there is with weed, but do you know what I mean? So, like if someone doesn't sleep very well and marijuana was like legalized, you wouldn't need to go through your doctor to get medicinal stuff. You could just go down to the shop and be like, "Okay, I'm going to pop I'm going to pop a gummy before I go to bed and I'll sleep better."

[00:57:29]>> Yeah.

[00:57:29]>> So, there's also the fact that there there is evidence that it helps other >> It's good for pain. It can help you said multiple sclerosis earlier, right? So, if we're trying to focus on mental health disorders, yeah, that might not be the thing. But with the UK, you can't get um you can't use weed as you can't get it for anxiety or for sleep, I think, unless you've tried two other um medicines, two other drugs that haven't worked.

[00:57:57]>> Yeah. Which feels like a pretty reasonable bar.

[00:57:59]>> Yeah, it's fair enough. Yeah. There are there obviously is the criticism in the UK, it's been fairly recently that there's like sort of pseudo doctors type places setting up that are basically getting a medical license and then just kind of giving you weed for anything and and that kind of stuff will happen. Um >> and legalize it. That's the solution.

[00:58:19]>> Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, that doesn't automatically follow, but like I think in the round when you look at the evidence of like does it absolutely disable your country like and your society? No, it doesn't seem to. Can you cater? Can you regulate the weed so that it's not the most dangerous types of weed that people are smoking like skunk?

[00:58:36]Yes, you can. Um, can you tax it? Yes.

[00:58:39]Does it have some benefits? We think pretty proven for certain things. Yes, it does. Like, do we have massive levels of alcoholism in this country and that's perfectly legal? Yes, that is also true.

[00:58:50]Like in the round of all those things, I'm not saying weed is perfectly safe and everyone like no one's going to have problems, but in the round, the attitude we have to things that do have problems and have legal and then the attitude we have to this thing that doesn't seem to have some of those problems feels like we're being a little inconsistent.

[00:59:06]>> Absolutely. Yeah. And that's why I'm wary about studies like this. You know, I'm I'm trying to see is there a bias here? Um and it is interesting, right?

[00:59:14]It is very interesting. Um, I think more studies are needed and like that's that's what this says as well, I'm pretty sure. Um, but I would be caut I' I'd caution people to not take the headlines that they may have seen about this as meaning um there is strict evidence that um the THC that cannabonoids are not helpful yeah for any mental health disorder. Even the depression one really bothered me because again it's just they say there's an absence of evidence for the treatment of um for the the randomized control evidence for the treatment of depression. So again, it's just an absence of evidence and this headline says there they find no evidence of it.

[00:59:54]>> It's very frustrating and also especially frustrating because it's not untrue.

[00:59:59]>> Yeah.

[01:00:00]>> Most people are going to read that that way and you know it. You do know that.

[01:00:04]That's what puts me That's what puts me to the point of being like, >> okay, a lot of this seems to be uh coalesing around sort of an anti- uh marijuana stance, which is fine, but there's not evidence there's not a lot of evidence of harm or a lot of evidence of it >> or even like evidence of it not being helpful.

[01:00:28]>> Yes, >> there's just in some cases a lack of evidence. In fact, in many cases, a lack of evidence. Right. If we had a major political party campaigning saying that there was evidence that weed fixes depression or helps depression, then it would be news that there was a study that didn't find that to be true.

[01:00:45]>> Even though it just didn't find anything, it still would be news that there was an absence of evidence. But when there's no serious powerful body calling for like like there's no one high up in power with the ability to change things like really seriously going I'm going to make it my thing to legalize at least like make medical marijuana more liberally available. No one is seriously everyone in serious power is actually either ignoring that or actively saying that they're going to not do that and saying that there's a problem. Right? So it's not news to find that there's not evidence of something.

[01:01:16]It's only only news to find there is or there's no evidence if somebody is seriously saying let's actually legalize it who has the ability to legalize it.

[01:01:25]>> Absolutely. Yeah. And is as well you got to think about how many studies there are if there's like if if you've looked at a hundred but they disregarded a lot including like observational ones because they said although they could shed some light on the efficacy of cannabonoids as treatment for these conditions potential biases are more likely to arise in these study designs and they cannot establish a causal relationship. Right? So they've gotten rid of a lot of things. If you had like a thousand studies um of depression and being treated with weed, for example, right, which is not the case, they couldn't find there was an absence of evidence of randomized control trials for the treatment of depression is what I've read, right? Um if you had like a hundred or a thousand studies and there was no evidence of it having any positive impact, >> then you could probably make you could pretty comfortably probably make the statement that there doesn't seem to be any um imp like positive impact of um using cannabis to treat depression, right?

[01:02:14]However, if you've only looked at if you couldn't find enough studies, right? So, you don't have a thousand, you can barely scrape together three and they say, "Yeah, like, oh well, we couldn't find any evidence of it." That's a very different story. Do you know what I mean? Very, very different story. And I think that's just something to be aware of with this. They do list off their limitations. You know, um they focused on the longest follow-up outcomes. Uh whereas some studies might have observed varying effects at multiple time points.

[01:02:43]Um they also mentioned that they were uh oh when they they they broke it down by subgroup of cannabonoid as well and that would have been limited by um the sample sizes as well. There might have been gender or sex differences in the efficacy and safety of cannabonoids but that wasn't pro that analysis wasn't provided um by most studies. Uh so yeah most of the stuff we kind of gone over already um yeah basically they are saying that there's weak evidence that they're beneficial compared to placebo in most conditions based on the studies that they've looked at. um you know treating mental health disorders and substance use disorders with cannabis um and there's some evidence that the support that supported the use of cannabonoids particularly mixed cannabono uh can cannabidol and THC in the relief of symptoms related to cannabis use disorder insomnia Tourette's autism but the quality of evidence was low um basically they're saying they need more randomized control trials and more representative samples um and they're saying that it's concerning that the use of these treatments could delay or replace the use of more effective therapies overall given the scarcity of evidence for efficacy and greater risk risk of all call all cause adverse outcomes. The routine use of these medicines for mental disorders and SUG SUDDS substance use disorders is really justified.

[01:03:50]>> Okay. But the main conclusion is more research is needed.

[01:03:54]>> More research is needed. Yeah. I I mean at least in my experience it doesn't seem that a lot of people I mean this they were saying talking about the US, Canada and Australia that a lot of people um are using 27% of the estimated population of 16 to 25 years in the USA and Canada report ever having used cannabis for medical purposes.

[01:04:12]That's misleading though because doesn't mean mental health things. Could be for could be for uh che like while you're going through chemo. It could be for uh pain. It could be for any kind of thing.

[01:04:24]Right.

[01:04:25]>> Um >> where it does have evidence.

[01:04:27]>> Exactly. [laughter] Exactly.

[01:04:28]>> This is concerning because lots of people say they do this uh for the thing you're talking about. Not necessarily.

[01:04:34]>> For some other things, maybe lots of other things.

[01:04:36]>> Exactly. Which is kind of the worry, right? And yeah, I'm not saying that we should be giving out weed for the treatment of depression because I don't think that giving someone a sort of prescription for weed is going to help depression necessarily, but um you know, there's if if it can if in a therapy environment, I think it's worth looking into it, right? At the very least. Um, but yeah, you know, you if if well, no, you don't know you, but what I mean is that if you're somewhere where it's legal and you're sort of self-medicating and it's helping you with your insomnia, insomnia, for example, or something and it's not having any adverse effects, then great, awesome. But it is also a drug and it can be addictive. So, there is a balance to that, you know.

[01:05:17]>> And that is the really important thing as well is like there are side effects.

[01:05:21]That's kind of their point, isn't it? We didn't find evidence that it helped. And there we all know there are side effects of wheat. Like there are downsides to it potentially at least for everyone.

[01:05:30]>> Yeah, absolutely. And is there anything else you want to say before we go?

[01:05:33]>> Uh well Luke, it's too late. That is all from us before we go. We would like to thank all of our patrons. Thank you for watching. You can find the full references for this episode down in the description. Subscribe for new episodes every Monday. And why not leave us a nice week comment. Support the pod at patreon.com/syge or find and contact us at sgisupod.co.uk.

[01:05:50]>> That's suispod.co.uk.

[01:05:53]Bud.co.uk.

[01:05:55]You can follow me at notcore everywhere.

[01:05:56]>> You can follow me at lukeworth everywhere.

[01:05:58]>> And you can follow us both to the Patreon. Goodbye.

[01:06:01]>> Up we go. Up we go. Up we go. Up we go.

[01:06:05]>> Good hive.