Is the war in Iran over or just beginning? | CUOMO Full Show

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]Chris Cuomo here. There's an old adage among lawyers. If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table. That is why CNN's resident maggalomaniac Scott Jennings did what we all saw when he was getting called out for the nonsense being pedled about the war from the administration.

[00:00:30]Remember this? Now, when this happened, I asked, what 48-year-old man talks to a kid 25 years younger than him like that?

[00:00:39]One who's got nothing else? when one who did work for the Bush administration that sold us the BS about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. You think he would have some type of shame, but there's no shame in the game. And he knows how to play the ragebait game.

[00:00:56]Now, some of you will say, "No, no, take it easy. He's a good guy, and you're Italian, so you're too comfortable with the hands." But the hands were just too much for the gentiel Jennings. But I believe Jennings is just fine with justesticulating. He just couldn't handle what came along with it. My proof, Jennings himself did the same thing Mockler did to him to another guest. And here are the receipts.

[00:01:28]What a punk. He did the same thing. You see what I'm saying? Now, what's different is Professor Michael Eric Dyson, the man on your screen, looking at him with contempt. Why? Well, he handled it differently because he has a better handle on adulting than Jennings, but also because he had the facts and the law on his side. See, that's why I called Jennings out. I don't want bad things for him. I wish him well, and I don't want him fired because not only did he fail the decency test, right, in a way that he provoked somebody else the same way, but now he's got a new standard, but it's all just a distraction from his true deficiency.

[00:02:09]He can't justify what's happening in Iran beyond the regime sucks.

[00:02:17]All this administration can do is pound the table and insist we're winning bigly, which we should be in terms of military might. But beyond what the US war machine accomplished with the IDF in about the first week, we've spent now the better part of 2 months being told not to believe our lying eyes about the obvious impass. Listen to this.

[00:02:42]>> Last 24 hours or so, Iran's fired at us.

[00:02:45]We fired at Iran. Just going to ask you more directly, is the ceasefire over?

[00:02:51]>> No, the ceasefire is not over. Uh ultimately this is a separate and distinct project. Uh and we expected there would be some uh some churn with the ceasefire. The clock stops. If it were to restart, that would be the president's decision.

[00:03:08]So they're firing on you, you're firing on them, but it's a ceasefire cuz it's a separate component. It's a ceasefire.

[00:03:20]The ceasefire ceasefire, but they shot, but you're shooting. But the blockade should ceasefire. To quote the princess bride, he keeps on using that word. I do not think it means what he thinks it means because a ceasefire is just what it sounds like. Any firing shows a lack of cessation. Okay. Now, those are the facts. The law, even if there were a ceasefire, okay, show me where in the War Powers Resolution it says a president gets to decide to pause the 60-day clock. It doesn't anywhere. Show me where it says that a ceasefire even pauses the clock. Nowhere. The words are not in the statute because it's not a thing. But of course, the majority in Congress are just MAGA minions for the most part. So instead of enforcing the law that they have a constitutional duty to enforce, they took a vacation.

[00:04:16]So, as a result, instead of Congress doing its job and voting potentially to hold military action until there's a strategy articulated or maybe a negotiation or diplomatic strategy that makes sense. Instead of that, now there may be another round of bombing. Well, that can't be bad, can it? I don't know how many innocent people will die. What may happen to American troops? What will it cost?

[00:04:45]without any real sense that it will make anything better.

[00:04:50]How can we allow any of this? After all, we've already sent tens of thousands of bombs into Iran and killed a bunch of the regime's leaders, and yet we are at an impass.

[00:05:02]The president told us he obliterated their nuclear capacity. Now he's saying he will obliterate their oil capacity.

[00:05:11]But the more reporting gets done, the less likely either seems to be true. A new report says US intelligence believes, US intelligence, okay, that is the Trump administration, believes that Iran's timeline to produce enough enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon remains unchanged since last year's Operation Midnight Hammer. Okay? They think it's going to take them about a year to have enough enriched uranium.

[00:05:42]Remember two things. One, having enough enriched uranium is not the same as having a nuke. There is an entire separate set of processes that can go very wrong to getting to a weapon once you have the uran uranium. So the idea that they were just weeks away from building a nuke is demonstrabably poo poo. Okay. Now, we supposedly went to war because they were weeks away from a weapon. again demonstrabably by the administration's own intelligence agencies run by the people he put in charge say that's not true. Did you hear it? Can you accept it? We'll see. As for oil production, Colombia's Center on Global Energy Policy, which researches exactly this, found, quote, "The US blockade of Iran's oil expert exports will not cause catastrophic or even very serious damage of its oil industry. If and when the blockade is relaxed, Iran will probably be able to promptly resume production at about 70% or regain most of its pre-war capacity within a few months."

[00:06:48]Now, here's something we can do something about that is very wrong and affecting us at home very much. What you see on your screen, the price of oil is now the same as it was a bunch of years ago, but the price of gas is much higher now than it was then. Why? Profit taking by the big oil companies. They are making $30 million extra every hour because of the war.

[00:07:17]Why doesn't the president play tough with them? Why doesn't he say, "Congress, get back here. Democrats, you two come together and pass a windfall profit tax on these companies. Don't let them gouge profits during a war." Why not do that?

[00:07:41]Let's discuss. Now, the day after Jennings did what he did to young Mr. Adam Mockler, uh, Heraldo Rivera, who was also at the CNN table that night, was on this show and he gave his hot take on what he saw go down.

[00:07:58]The kid was a dick. I mean, he really smart, eloquent, had his argument together, had obviously debated Scott before, and he was really being a dick.

[00:08:09]I mean, it was like I shut up.

[00:08:13]Look, did I agree? Obviously, no. You see my face. I love Heraldo, okay? He will always win in any conversation with me. But I have to say I believe that the age of Mr. Mockler is relevant. Not to his capacity. The kid, if you want to call him that, is every bit a fullg grown man when it comes to making his arguments. I just believe that Jennings had a higher standard that he should have had as a 48 almost 50 year old man.

[00:08:40]and he was just getting beaten on the facts and the law and bailed himself out with bad behavior and he shouldn't be rewarded for that any more than the president or anybody else. So, let's discuss how we get to a better place and the true state of play. Veteran journalist and absolutely one of my mentors got me into this business, Mr. Haraldo Rivera and progressive podcaster who is a friend of mine and I love having on my platforms, Adam Mockler.

[00:09:06]It's good to have you both. Um, and um, Adam, uh, you know, everybody's been talking about this. You and I have gotten sideways on the couch in my apartment. Uh, and that sounded wrong. I mean, in terms of our arguments, and we have disagreed.

[00:09:22]>> We have disagreed, right? And but never like that. Never angry. Never where we can't look at each other in the eye.

[00:09:29]Never in terms of not wanting each other's company anymore because we're decent and we were being decent. Did you pick up on that Jennings? Because you didn't look intimidated, nor should you have been, but did you know that he was being performative in what he did or did you think he was really losing it?

[00:09:48]>> No, that was a genuine serious moment and I really appreciate the clips that you showed in the opening and I appreciate everything you said. I also think that my age actually doesn't have much to do with it at this point. uh from from my stance, I've been attacked over the past few days on my age over and over, but nobody's really focusing on the substance of what I was saying in that moment. So, I'll touch on Jennings in one moment, but I mean, for my entire life, the United States has been at war with some country in the Middle East in one form or another. Millennials grew up seeing all of these headlines about Saddam Hussein is taken out, the bad guy is taken out. But then we watched that military success turn into a grinding counterinsurgency. Years and years, trillions of dollars spent. Same thing in Afghanistan. A military success at first turned into a grinding counterinsurgency. So people my age are primed to believe that just because you get some like just because you sink the Navy or you sink the Air Force doesn't mean it's going to affect us or help us long term. So I was trying to make a broader point about military concessions. And when it comes to Scott Jennings, I sat with him at the same table, that same table week after week after week and listened to him lie about the timelines of the war, not bound to any sort of facts or even decorum. He's he's he's a big [ __ ] on that show.

[00:10:58]I'm I'm going to say it. He's the one who is constantly smug and condescending. That's his entire bit.

[00:11:03]So, for this to blow up because I give him the energy that he gives other people just blows my mind in my opinion.

[00:11:09]And I hope that's understandable.

[00:11:12]>> No, see, it is understandable. I don't have any problem with your age. I'm a little jealous, but I don't have any problem with it. I have a problem with his age. Uh because let me tell you something. Haraldo wouldn't treat me that way. He wouldn't. He wouldn't. He knows he knows better. He knows he's more seasoned. He knows that whatever I'm processing the wrong way is a function of that immaturity as opposed to anything else. Haraldo, he says something that you and I discussed one night at the house you were renting out east. We were we were drinking too, but it was a good conversation. And we were talking about his generation and you were saying, you know, they've been through it. 911, the economic collapse, you know, then the war on terror, then COVID, and now Trump, like it never ends for them. And they have seen a lot. We kind of don't think about that when we think about them as a younger generation.

[00:12:05]Oh, I think about the fact that they have a hard time buying homes and settling with their families.

[00:12:12]>> I I I think about that. I I am the father of five. Excuse me.

[00:12:18]a father of five, I I've watched these kids grow up and the kids around them, mine are more fortunate than than most.

[00:12:24]So, I understand the frustration. I also understand where a lack of respect would come from, a lack of decorum would come from. And you know, my my problem with Adam, who I never met until this uh this CNN experience, uh I I was impressed with his with the substance of what he was talking about and told him so in the commercial break. My problem with him was that he was disrespectful to uh to an extent in a physical way. Uh now if that had been you or or me Chris I submit that our reaction would have been at least as passionate as Scott Jennings reaction to uh to Adam Mach would have been perhaps even more so and if there was look in history you know the brawls we've had and the confrontations we've had uh you know my the jacket I'm wearing is 23 years old probably uh you know so I I >> I'm gonna buy you I'm gonna buy you a new jacket when I see you.

[00:13:29]>> Listen, I don't I don't think that's true. I think you and I can get hot and you and I grew up a different way than Adam and you and I have been in a lot of fist fights. That neither of us are are happy about a lot of that. What I'm saying is Adam's analysis works for me.

[00:13:44]He was giving Scott the same energy that Scott was giving him. And I'll tell you what, when he was on with you guys on Piers Morgan, and again, I I respect Piers. I've known him a long time. I don't like the show. I think it's part of the problem. It's just dueling boxes and all gotcha contests. I gotta tell you, Piers was being a jerk to Adam.

[00:14:01]It's your bedtime. You're in your our bed your bedroom right now. Come to us.

[00:14:05]Kid's not 11. He's 25, you know. He's 23 years old.

[00:14:09]>> Can I just point out Yeah. Pierce made a joke. And I mean, Heraldo can say what he wants about my justiculations.

[00:14:15]There's a way to ask me to calm him down if if needed. But this is all again a distraction from this failing war. Over and over and over people were saying that like I need to bring more substance. The substance is shown in the headlines every single day.

[00:14:27]>> What would you do now about the war?

[00:14:28]What would you do, Adam? What what how do you what are you going to do now?

[00:14:32]You're the president right this minute.

[00:14:34]What are you going to do about the fact that let me answer epic fury and allo?

[00:14:40]>> I would not start project freedom then immediately scrap it. I would not lie to people. What are you gonna do about it now?

[00:14:46]>> Let me finish. Let me finish. I would not say that we have decisively won when we were two weeks in. And right now I see two pathways as as as like as we stand. Either we can have a crazy escalation and that's Trump right now threatening the desalination plants.

[00:15:01]This crazy escalation would teach Iran a lesson and that is one pathway or there is a humiliating climb down in which the United States has to leave without many concessions. Leave the area. Those are the two options right now. Do you see a third option?

[00:15:14]Yes, >> I think I I do personally, but I I it's very unpopular.

[00:15:21]Excuse me. I'm so sorry.

[00:15:23]>> Drink some water.

[00:15:23]>> I think that what has to h Yeah. Let me have Excuse me. Sh. Talk about drink.

[00:15:29]>> Drink some water.

[00:15:31]>> Yeah. I mean, listen.

[00:15:32]>> I'll tell you what my third path is, Adam. I'll tell you my third path.

[00:15:37]>> You stay You stay where you are. They had to pause the operation freedom. the the uh the uh guided tour through the straight because the regime was coming too close to Navy vessels and maybe doing something that would absolutely cause a justification for escalation that we don't need and >> and them p well this is what I'm told by guys who are in sitting in Riad right now as part of the planning team and it's good restraint because if they did something that was damaging to a US vessel Haraldo you know what comes next of of course I and I I think that Adam suggests humiliation or uh uh >> escalation >> escalation >> surren surrender basically >> because it rhymes humiliation or escalation humiliation or escalation >> project freedom I thought was a brilliant uh work around those two extremes how so when you couch the mission in the straight of hummus and the Persian Gulf in humanitarian terms as they were starting to do as Marco Rubio, Secretary of State Marco Rubio did today in humanitarian terms. What is this?

[00:16:52]There's 23,000 sailors on those vessels. They are starving. They're ill. They've been away from home. This ships are running out of supplies. Of course, you can you can and the and they began to make the argument.

[00:17:06]And I thought Rubio did an excellent job that that the only way to get help to those sailors is to let those vessels out, to let them leave, to promise that you'll let those vessels with the with the ill crew uh no supplies. Let them sail to wherever they're going.

[00:17:25]If if Iran is such a, you know, a victim, let these people sail and then I I think that it then you can talk about where you go from there. But >> can we just admit this is an absolutely paused >> Heraldo. Why do you think they I I don't I because I I fear I I fear that uh the No, I I am hopeful and and fearful. My my fear is that the Hawks will prevail and they'll un unleash fury again. My hope is that the two sides will see this humanitarian uh framing framework as a way out for both sides where both sides are not humiliated but they go to their separate corners and then take up negotiation for the fate of the of the strait uh in the future.

[00:18:19]>> The problem is one side is a bunch of terrorists. Go ahead, Adam. And then I have a question for you.

[00:18:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say the point of my entire questions are not to say that I have the answer to how to end this war, but I just want to be able to ask questions about a war that I view as failing. I mean, just think about this.

[00:18:34]Operation Epic Fury has apparently winded down or it's over according to Marco Rubio and Pete Hagath basically because it hit the 60-day mark. So then they started Operation uh Freedom or Project Freedom or whatever they're calling it. Now they're winding this down. What did we get from Epic Fury?

[00:18:50]Did we get nuclear disarmament? No. Did we get regime change? No. So, what I'm trying to say is I'm very worried this is going to turn into another grinding long-term war and we should be able to ask questions about that. I don't see many political concessions from Iran. I mean, that's the main question I was asking. Can we all just agree we've gotten zero political concessions from Iran after 62 days or so, >> right? Look, I thought you were right to call out Jennings. The guy worked for Bush who sold us the weapons of mass destruction BS and he has no shame about it. And I thought you were right to bring up the context with the IRA thing.

[00:19:22]your substance is strong enough that he had to do this. That's my point. Um, and I'll tell you one idea that we haven't mentioned tonight. There's one piece to this that's getting a complete pass.

[00:19:34]Congress. They went on vacation when they have obvious statutory requirement to vote.

[00:19:43]This has never happened before where they've had a 60-day and they've ignored it and gone on vacation. I think the Democrats should come back and say, "We're not leaving. We want a vote." I think that there's a space here because if they go back and bomb more, Haraldo, it's on Congress. They could have stopped it with a vote and they're just letting the president do whatever.

[00:20:04]>> I I believe I just wanted to one PS and I I I was right about the Supreme Court's previous decisions where they would go on immunity, for example. The War Powers Act is arguably unconstitutional. Why? Because article two of the Constitution makes the president of the United States the commanderin-chief.

[00:20:26]The commander-in-chief means in war that he gets to decide what's right, what's wrong, what's left, what's right. I I think that given the fact that there is an argument and I think it will go to the Supreme Court. I think that somebody will make the case in in a in a legal forum.

[00:20:45]They'll argue that Congress has the sole right to wage war because that's article one. This is article two, the commander-in-chief. I think that article two will prevail and the and Trump and I hated the this war. I warned them at that this war was going to go south. I heard you always gets worse in the M East.

[00:21:06]>> I heard you do it. But this and you were right then. How do we get out of there?

[00:21:09]one thing.

[00:21:10]>> There's one thing and then we'll we'll rejoin. We'll keep talking. And Adam, you know, you're always welcome here on the podcast, on the radio. I think you're doing great. Uh and I think it's all substance. Uh I don't even who knows what your style will be. We'll see you in 20 years. Uh but cuz I didn't have one for like the first 15 years. You got to see what meets the moment. Um a statute that has never been challenged stands as drafted. So until it gets challenged and gets overturned, you have to follow the law. That's how it works and we're not doing that. Adam Mockler, appreciate you being here. Haraldo Rivera, I love you like chocolate.

[00:21:49]>> Happy Cinco de Mayo, by the way, >> for all the people who want to celebrate the battle of >> Pueblo.

[00:21:56]Gracias.

[00:21:58]>> I love Polish. Four minutes and 35 seconds. Coming up, Trump says the ceasefire is holding despite the fact that Iran just took shots at our naval ships. Secretary of State Rubio went even farther. He said, "Operation Epic Fury has concluded. Project Freedom, which is not a military offensive, is in effect. What's a blockade if not an offensive?" So, what does this mean?

[00:22:22]What is the state of play militarily?

[00:22:25]Next.

[00:22:33]I'm just making sure that I'm not crazy.

[00:22:35]A ceasefire is a formal, temporary, or permanent agreement between waring parties to stop armed violence.

[00:22:44]They're shooting at us. We're shooting at them. They're shooting at the UAE.

[00:22:49]How is this a ceasefire? The administration says the ceasefire is holding. I mean, it would make George Orwell blush. And look, so what if the ceasefire isn't holding? It still leaves us in the same place. But today, Secretary of State Marco Rubio had to do what you have to do in this administration. Backing up what the president wants you to say.

[00:23:13]>> This is a defensive operation. And what that means is very simple. There's no shooting unless we're shot at first.

[00:23:19]Okay? We're not attacking them. We're not. But if they are attacking us or they're attacking a ship, you need to respond to that. You're not going to let some fast boat come up on a ship and shoot it up. We're going to respond to it. The operation is over. Uh Epic Fury is president notified Congress, we're done with that stage of it. Okay? We're now on to this project of freedom.

[00:23:41]>> You know that if they have another war, another round of bombing, they'll just name it something else and say this is a new operation. And again, that's not my problem with this. It's it's the logic and it's it's using illogic. You attacked them. You said you attacked them because they have been trying to destroy us in different ways for 47 years, which is true, but there was no imminent reason to do it the way you did it. You say they were weeks away from having a nuke. Your own intelligence agencies say that's not true. And at some point, I'm sure the president will say he doesn't believe his intelligence agencies. That's where we are. That's the state of play. But let's discuss what this means to a real military man and what it looks like in terms of what can be done to a real political thinker, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe uh General Wesley Clark and NewsNation political editor Chris Stywall. Uh, General, just to remind me, just so I don't think I'm going crazy.

[00:24:46]Ceasefire is what it sounds like, right?

[00:24:48]>> That's right.

[00:24:50]>> Okay. It doesn't really matter if we have a ceasefire or not, General, right?

[00:24:54]In terms of how you see the state of play, what are the options?

[00:24:59]>> You know, the least worst option is project freedom. That is to say, President Trump doesn't want to wait forever. The Iranians win the longer they hold out. And so if you push gently into the straight and you make the Iranians the aggressor, which is what Secretary of State Rubio did today in the press conference. And so it's them, the Iranians, who are violating the law of the sea and trying to bottle up the straits. The Americans are the good guys. Uh that that's the least worst solution. But the problem is what ship is going to take advantage of the American guide because you still got the enemy out there. So this was really a way to continue to push and you were going to put the Iranians in a box. They either had to forcibly resist over multiple days as you continued to whittle away at their defenses or they had to simply say, "Okay, okay, let's just negotiate." Now, what we don't know is what's actually happening behind the scenes. Is there really, as President Trump said, a possible good solution through negotiations that one day of Project Freedom achieved, or is this another sort of we're not quite sure what to do? You see, I thought the Project Freedom was a brilliant move because it used military force to empower diplomacy. But but did it really empower the diplomacy? Only time will tell.

[00:26:39]>> Why fight the ceasefire fight, Chris?

[00:26:42]What is that about? What does it do?

[00:26:44]What does it gain them?

[00:26:46]>> Lord, I wish I knew. Um I think the big issue right now to go way back in military history, uh is the credibility gap. I think the the problem that Secretary Rubio experienced today, the problem that the Republicans in Congress who are trying to to run blocker for the administration, you have all these Republicans in Congress who want to help. They want to help. They they don't want to vote against the war. They want to fund it. They want to do all this stuff. Uh they are eager to be of service. But every time somebody thinks that there is a consensus behind what the strategy and what the operation is, the president gets on his social media and says something different. And the way that it gets shorthanded is taco and Trump always chickens out. But that's not right. That's not true. The truth is that Trump remains always like nailing jello- to the wall. can't get him to take ownership of anything because he never wants to play a losing hand. And unfortunately, as General says, when you're talking about foreign policy, you're usually talking not about winning. You're talking about the least bad option. What's the least bad thing that we can do here, particularly when you're in the Middle East?

[00:28:06]>> Well, failing to plan is planning to fail. and you wind up in this regressive analysis of your least bad moves because you started off with a flawed ambition.

[00:28:16]Um, and that's why the general sees it that way, which I get. And I have a question for him in a second, but I have a follow for you. Why isn't the savvy move right now to take Senator Bernie Sanders idea, which I'm sure he'd be happy with, and say, "Hey, by the way, uh, we're all supposed to be rowing in the same direction here. Oil companies, you don't get to make extra money right now. We're passing the windfall tax.

[00:28:36]Congress, come back from vacation. I know you're hiding from the War Powers Resolution. Come back. Pass this. And the Democrats will pass it with you because they'll like that law. Why not do that?

[00:28:45]>> Well, JD Vance might go for it. I don't know. That's uh that that would be the that would be the new look Republican party for sure. Uh I I think that given what the price of energy is doing to American consumers. about the only saving grace is that the United States petroleum industry and the energy industry broadly is making tons and tons of money. So this is very bad for most drivers but for Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, wherever there are US being a net exporter does have its benefits.

[00:29:17]>> Um I think they still would be even if you did this. It's just about how much money they make. But point taken, point taken. General, last quick thing. Why do you think they paused Operation Freedom?

[00:29:27]I think the president was uh either as he said he got a good diplomatic offer or he's uncomfortable with the continuous push and the risk of continuing escalation particularly the escalation the attacks against the United Arab Emirates. Now, the Emirates, they've done pretty well at defending themselves, but uh the uh oil terminal in Fujara, which was critical to getting a million and a half barrels a day out of the Gulf, that was struck. Big fire there. And obviously, it's not well protected. And and Chris, here's the thing. Militarily, the Iranians have done something that um that we we haven't seen. Now, maybe the North Koreans actually did it first, but we didn't go to war with North Korea. uh in the last 50 years. What the Iranians have done is they've put facilities so deeply underground, so redundant that we have no means of getting at them. So, we don't really know uh how many missiles are left. We don't know what the quality is.

[00:30:29]>> Uh there are rumors that there's other uranium stock piles rather than the one at Isan. We don't know that for sure and we don't have any way to get at it. And the second thing we are finding out here that we weren't really aware of was how effective the anti-access area denial strategy that China started creating that helped Iran keep our naval vessels well away from the coastline. That aircraft carrier was sent hundreds of miles away because of persistent attack.

[00:31:00]Now the destroyers got in because there is a ceasefire. Uh and those destroyers were sort of let's say lightly engaged but they weren't uh struck by a coordinated overwhelming attack simultaneous ballistic crews sea skimming missiles mines and swift boats or fast boats. They could have been maybe if there's sufficient command and control left. So we've got some real military problems we're addressing >> and um you can't see those. They're not visible. We don't have all the but we do have significant challenges militarily.

[00:31:36]>> General, I appreciate the perspective.

[00:31:38]Mr. Political Editor, as always, a blessing. 4 minutes and 30 seconds. Up next, we first heard of the Havirus.

[00:31:46]Man, that sounds scary. Hivirus is scary. I heard about it because I am into viruses. But the death of actor Gene Hackman and his wife, all that mystery, hivirus was behind that. Now you got this cruise ship filled with passengers quarantined. And we're being told that hivirus that is usually from animals to humans, maybe human to human.

[00:32:10]How? A doctor tells us what's going on and what could happen.

[00:32:18]All we want right now is to feel safe, to have clarity, and to get home. So, if you're seeing coverage about this, just remember that there are real people behind it, and that this isn't something happening somewhere far away, it's happening to us right now.

[00:32:40]Man, that sucks. That's one of the 150 passengers, 17 of which are Americans, who were Americans, trapped on a cruise ship floating off the coast of Cape Verde, uh, after an outbreak of a really serious and rare henta virus. At least seven people are suspected of having the virus. Three have died, including a husband and wife. One has been hospitalized, is in critical condition.

[00:33:04]Three more are still waiting on the ship to be evacuated. Now, Hanta virus you don't hear about too often. And it did pop up when uh Gene Hackman was found dead and his wife uh was found dead.

[00:33:17]Remember the mystery? The wife had hivirus and then she was taking care of Hackman who was literally mortally dependent on her. So he died when she succumbed to the virus. And it's really nasty. It is primarily spread from animals to humans through contact with their feces or urine or saliva. Like people get it a lot when they're cleaning out places where you have mice and rats. Anyway, the World Health Organization today said they believe it was spread through human to human transmission. That is much scarier than what we're used to hearing about this.

[00:33:53]So, let's discuss. My next guests can answer all the questions. One, what does this mean medically? Two, how bad does this suck for the people on the ship?

[00:34:01]Okay. disease expert uh senior scholar at John's Hopkins Center for Health Security uh Dr. Amish Adalia. Hey doctor, I haven't seen you in a while.

[00:34:11]It's good to good to see you. Good to see you. And good to see you as well.

[00:34:13]Thanks for having her >> of course. And Gay spent 14 days quarantined on the Diamond Princess cruise ship in 2020 due to a COVID outbreak. So she knows the pain and we'll get that perspective. Doc Hanta virus human to human. If that's true, what does that mean?

[00:34:32]>> Well, we've always known that certain strains of haunt virus can spread person to person, particularly the strain that's dominant in Argentina where this whole trip originated. So that even though that strain is transmissible person to person, it's not like CO. It's not like measles. It's not a very efficient transmission. It's something that requires close and prolonged contact. So even if that's occurring, and it seems that that's the case on the ship, it's something that can be stopped. It's something that's going to be delimited versus a respiratory virus, for example.

[00:35:04]>> So, do they need to do what they're doing to these people?

[00:35:08]>> Not all of it. They definitely need to make sure they understand who's infected. They need to figure connect those individuals to care. They need to figure out who is exposed and watch those individuals to see if they develop symptoms. They need to be able to disembark though. And the Cape Feder Islands aren't letting them disembark.

[00:35:25]the Canary Islands are going to let them disembark because I think when you concentrate these people on a ship, it increases the dread factor. It if there is transmission going on, it intensifies it and it makes it a big spectacle when there are tried and trueue public health principles that can apply to end this as quickly as possible.

[00:35:45]>> Right? Amish is talking and Gay is like, man, is he right because I lived it.

[00:35:50]What is the hardest part of being uh on a ship like that with people who are sick and it's spreading?

[00:36:00]>> Well, the the the gentleman you showed today that was on the ship, we saw that clip last night, my husband and I, and we were saying, "Oh my goodness, we could relate to that that feeling of panic and and not knowing if it's coming for you next." Um I think right frankly um you know we were we were on the cruise ship um we were immediately quarantined in our cabins and um given a lot of uh protocols about what to do but still people kept getting sick every day. We had a balcony overlooking the dock and we saw ambulances coming and going, coming and going and people were leaving the ship and the captain was giving us um rather detailed information how many were sick from what countries and also how many people had died.

[00:36:55]>> And I know it's something you'll never forget and these people can't can't wait to get it behind them. But how long do you think it takes, doc, for them to get off? And how long until we know who has it and who doesn't?

[00:37:08]>> Well, right now we know that there are teams of doctors that have boarded from the Cape Farad Islands, but it's going to take a couple of days before they get to the Canary Islands, which are controlled by Spain, and they're able to disembark. So, it's going to still be several more days before we get, you know, full situational awareness of what's going on. I think the priority right now has to be to get the sick people off now and get them linked to care because this is a disease where they they need supportive care. They may need oxygen. They may need to be in an intensive care unit. All of that needs to happen now. But it's going to be a couple of days before we understand exactly what's going on.

[00:37:42]>> Amish, it's good to see you again. Thank you very much. Dr. Adalia G, it's very nice to meet you. I'm glad this is in your rearview mirror and I hope it is for these people soon as well. Thank you for giving us your perspective. Four minutes and 15 seconds. I'll be right back.

[00:38:01]>> How do you reconcile being an optimist, which I certainly am, maybe irrationally so I get accused of that on a regular basis with the feeling that looking at the totality of circumstances, we have to expect more violence in our politics. How do you reconcile those two things? I don't want that. I don't want to see that. That's why I jump on something like the Jennings and Mockler thing. And look, I get why people feel different ways about it. Um I I don't agree that you can uh say, "Well, the kid was just being a punk." The kid was right. Okay. And his generation does have unique perspective on being in the suck. Uh they've seen a lifetime of bad decisions uh by American governments.

[00:38:49]Okay? the war on terror, uh, you know, what happened after 9/11, uh, the economic crisis, COVID, uh, you know, and now what we've been living through for the last 10 years. They've seen a lot for young people. But it seems to me that violence and anger and aggression towards your opposition is only gaining momentum and utility, and it's being rewarded by the algorithms. So, how do you reconcile those two things? It's something we're going to have to figure out together because we got to get to a better place. I'll see you in a second.

[00:39:26]All right, we're approaching the top of the hour here. A lot of news. There's a lot to discern and decipher about what's going on in Iran. And here at home, it's deadly quiet because Congress ran away taking a vacation instead of acting on its constitutional duty under the War Powers Resolution. If people can tell you, well, a lot of people think it's unconstitutional, then challenge it and win. Until then, a law drafted and unchallenged stands as drafted. Leland Vidder right now.

[00:39:56]>> Yeah. One thing you can always count on in Washington is Congress not doing their job.

[00:40:02]>> I know. I hate that it's so dependably that way.

[00:40:04]>> It's the only thing that is dependable in Washington. Chris, great show.